Safe Spaces?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As an internet space for women, PD IS pretty much the safest non-feminist space I can think of that still exists that I have visited, but our knock down drag it out and screech style can be intimidating for some. I'd only recommend PD to one or 2 people from my activist group. (both of the dudes, actually hehe, oh and maybe Quinn, my non-binary friend from Pompey, who I get on with really well with)

The rest of the internet varies, The UK board Mumsnet is mostly women, and that can get pretty hostile sometimes, but no-one will ask you for pics of your bewbs.

I'm not sure about other places online,  but I've seen some wretchedly horrible places in the past.

PD is pretty fucking "safe", in terms of being populated by people who will call out racism/sexism/homophobia and also are open to re-evaluating their attitudes on issues though intelligent, challenging discussion. It's one of the safest spaces on my internet, actually.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Safe space is a term defined here, 

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Safe_space

So, it's sort of an enforced SHUT UP.

We just throw that sort of person who would misbehave in that manner out of the group.

Some people use it like that.

However, it's more commonly used in situations like support forums and IRL support groups or therapy groups, for instance I was on one for that whole hysterectomy situation, and when I was younger I went to group therapy for childhood sexual abuse and in a situation like that, it's really important that no-one pop off and call anyone a little whore or tell them they must have asked for it/liked it. Both of which I've heard, and both of which are pretty detrimental to a person's healing process.

that's the ideal aim of a safe space, but sometimes monkeybrains and all. Hence why I'm trying to fight for a transparent moderation on the HFC spaces.

Sometimes the Tumblr echo chamber forgets this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc

and sometimes I forget it when I'm pissy or not believed about, say, street harassment or shit is minimised.

Yep.

Give humans a good idea, and they WILL fuck it up. 

[Cainad (dec.)]

I'm thinking that where things turn ugly is when "safe" gets conflated with "total conflict aversion."

PD.com is "safe," but even typing the phrase "conflict aversion" caused my browser to laugh at me.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I've always heard of "safe spaces" in the context that it is not a physical space, but a communication environment.

For example, a forum where it is not ok to be a man and post about getting emotional and crying would not be a safe space for that communication because people would mock and belittle that.

There are forums where being openly female or gay is not safe because people will harass you.

Safe spaces, in that context, exist both online and in face-to-face interactions, but they're not tied to a geographical location.

The Red and Black Cafe advertises itself as a safe space.

And it would still be a safe space if it moved to another location, or opened multiple locations, but that building would likely cease to be a safe space if it went out of business and re-opened as a dive bar, because what is making the space safe is the communication environment, not the building it's in.

What I am trying to say is that safe spaces are not like drug-free zones, where everywhere within 1000 feet of a school has extra penalties for drug use whether the people in it agree to that or not. They are more like a support group meeting, where the group session creates a safe space whether it's in conference room A or conference room G. The people who enter that "safe space" are agreeing to abide by the guidelines for it, by virtue of going there.

^this^

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I'm thinking that where things turn ugly is when "safe" gets conflated with "total conflict aversion."

PD.com is "safe," but even typing the phrase "conflict aversion" caused my browser to laugh at me.

Also this.

managing the safe space vs ability to question/ dissent is a balancing act for those spaces. It comes out wrong sometimes, well in others, and works in a kind of fucked up way that isn't for the faint hearted, here at PD.

Ting is, at PD we wouldn't have it any other way.

[Cainad (dec.)]

One time, I tried to avert a conflict on PD.com

I woke up three days later stuffed in my own closet, smelling strongly of fish, and a very expensive exorcism bill taped to my door.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

As an internet space for women, PD IS pretty much the safest non-feminist space I can think of that still exists that I have visited, but our knock down drag it out and screech style can be intimidating for some. I'd only recommend PD to one or 2 people from my activist group. (both of the dudes, actually hehe, oh and maybe Quinn, my non-binary friend from Pompey, who I get on with really well with)

The rest of the internet varies, The UK board Mumsnet is mostly women, and that can get pretty hostile sometimes, but no-one will ask you for pics of your bewbs.

I'm not sure about other places online,  but I've seen some wretchedly horrible places in the past.

PD is pretty fucking "safe", in terms of being populated by people who will call out racism/sexism/homophobia and also are open to re-evaluating their attitudes on issues though intelligent, challenging discussion. It's one of the safest spaces on my internet, actually.

IS WHY YOU SPAG'S AREN'T GETTING RID OF ME COMPLETELY ANY POINT SOON.

Actually the BIP stuff and understading the term privilege in social justice speak (I reframe it as shit I don't have to worry about because I'm white, cisgendered, ect**) and changing the bars pretty much go together. Think of "checking your privilege" as like trying to get a small glimpse of the world through someone else's cell.

Make sense?




**(don't get all bugfuck over the word, please, folks. if you can find a better word to define "not -trans*" that isn't just average or normal, then fill your boots. I don't think I can, so i don't really give a shit if it helps frame a discussion for the trans* peeps. )

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

One time, I tried to avert a conflict on PD.com

I woke up three days later stuffed in my own closet, smelling strongly of fish, and a very expensive exorcism bill taped to my door.

BWHAHAHAHA!

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm thinking that where things turn ugly is when "safe" gets conflated with "total conflict aversion."

PD.com is "safe," but even typing the phrase "conflict aversion" caused my browser to laugh at me.

Fuck yeah. Sometimes it's cathartic or therapeutic or just downright fun to "yell" and rant at someone for saying something that's complete shit. It's a cool feeling. (Even when later it turns out I'm wrong).

The good thing I think (hope) is that the people I respect the most on this board (and IRL, for that matter) are quite capable of losing the plot and calling me the dumbest piece of shit imaginable (even if it later turns out I'm right) but, once the conflict has been resolved, there remains a mutual respect and/or something approaching a friendship.

The ones who keep talking shit and nothing but will generally succumb to our core group of angry monkeys and find it an unpleasant shithole. Moderation the right way - ignore or abuse the twats til they fuck off.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

One other "safe space" thing I've done was a mommy support group where you were allowed to say things about how much being a mom blows, which I think is an important one because moms don't get a lot of safe spaces for that kind of thing. It's a voluntary, temporary agreement: go in, bitch and moan and get it out of your system, then go back to the real world where people will call you on your bullshit and also judge you for every little thing you do ever. I can see how that can ultimately result in fart-huffing, but I think as a temporary thing hiding out in blanket forts every once in a while can be a positive experience.

Dude the amount of guilt and shaming mothers go through is ridiculous. I can see the support group being a good thing.

Yeah, it's off the scale. I mean, if you aren't ready to leave work at the drop of a hat whether your boss is fed up or not, so some teacher can tell you your kid SAID A BAD WORD IN CLASS, you're NEGLECTFUL.

OTOH, while blanket forts probably feel good for awhile, they don't change anything.

I think moms (and most especially SINGLE MOMS who are raked over the coals DAILY for not being able to be in several places at once, not having spare cash every time the (so-called "public") school DEMANDS it and "should have never opened their legs") need to collectively start telling people to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

One time, I tried to avert a conflict on PD.com

I woke up three days later stuffed in my own closet, smelling strongly of fish, and a very expensive exorcism bill taped to my door.

That was the fucking discount/student rate.  You have any idea how hard that shit is?

And then there's the overhead.  The hydraulic jack alone costs $125/day.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The good thing I think (hope) is that the people I respect the most on this board (and IRL, for that matter) are quite capable of losing the plot and calling me the dumbest piece of shit imaginable

I don't know anyone that does that.   

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I think i did, once

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think i did, once

Not me.  I'm a regular fucking Emily Post.

[Cainad (dec.)]

One time, I tried to avert a conflict on PD.com

I woke up three days later stuffed in my own closet, smelling strongly of fish, and a very expensive exorcism bill taped to my door.

That was the fucking discount/student rate.  You have any idea how hard that shit is?

And then there's the overhead.  The hydraulic jack alone costs $125/day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful and the work done was top-notch, but couldn't even get the Hardly-Any-Questions-Asked partial reimbursement that my plan is supposed to cover. Fucking bean counters fed me some bullshit line about "unreasonable obscenity policies."