Addressing poverty and Alienation

[Pergamos]

So this was actually inspired by the drugs thread, but it isn't related to drugs except as part of the issue.  RWHN said that addressing the root causes of drug use, poverty, alienation, etc. is the job of the fedral government, not local government or community coalitions.  I rather strongly disagree.  The feds can take steps to improve the economy, on a nationwide level, but for those steps to be effective they need to work with local partners.  The economic problems in one place are different than those in another and the most effective actions to alleviate poverty as well as to extend community to teens, minorities, GLBT folks and other marginialized groups is best done on as local a level as possible, at least in my opinion. 

I haven't found links to effective or ineffective local actions in these direction yet, I know the town I live in could really use some, but I am not dynamic or charismatic enough to spearhead that sort of thing on my own.  I am sure some of you folks have seen or heard of successful examples, either that or you know reasons why it is not a good idea.

[Doktor Howl]

The feds can take steps to improve the economy, on a nationwide level, but for those steps to be effective they need to work with local partners.

And how's that been working out?

[The Johnny]

I think your OP rhetorically speaking is confusing and may need some re-stating:

*drug use =/= poverty =/= alienation

*marginal groups =/= poverty (teens, minorities and GLBT are very heterogeneous populations)

And no, I'm not being dismissive, it's just that I don't understand your main point and this can go in many different directions.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

States do need to address poverty and lack of opportunity, as do counties and cities. There is a not of action at the local and state level, and it also, of course, calls for Federal-level policy changes.

Nothing particularly controversial about that, I wouldn't think?

[Doktor Howl]

My problem is, there are no local partners in many areas.

Arizona, for example.  There's NOTHING HERE.

And the idea that the federal government can't do the job is a crock, given the success of the TVA and the WPA, which reduced unemployment from 24.5% in 1932/33 to 10% in 1937/38.

[Pergamos]

I think your OP rhetorically speaking is confusing and may need some re-stating:

*drug use =/= poverty =/= alienation

*marginal groups =/= poverty (teens, minorities and GLBT are very heterogeneous populations)

And no, I'm not being dismissive, it's just that I don't understand your main point and this can go in many different directions.

I get where the confusion comes from.  marginal groups aren't poor, particularly teens and GLBT groups, but they are alienated.  I should have included alienation in the topic as that was part of the original discussion that inspired me to post the post.  I apologize for not being clear

[Pergamos]

My problem is, there are no local partners in many areas.

Arizona, for example.  There's NOTHING HERE.

And the idea that the federal government can't do the job is a crock, given the success of the TVA and the WPA, which reduced unemployment from 24.5% in 1932/33 to 10% in 1937/38.

I don't mean to suggest there is no role for the federal government, just that to effectively transform a national program into local results is going to go a lot better if there are local groups helping to make that happen.

The WPA made a huge difference, there are theories that it was not only put in to bring the unemployment level down, but also to break the power of local organizations such as the UXA (http://red-coral.net/UXA_Article.html) which was one local approach to alleviating the problems.  I think that had the feds worked with, instead of against, things like the UXA that the depression could have been ended in a more even and effective way.  As it is, it took not only the WPA, and TSA, but also a world war.

[Doktor Howl]

My problem is, there are no local partners in many areas.

Arizona, for example.  There's NOTHING HERE.

And the idea that the federal government can't do the job is a crock, given the success of the TVA and the WPA, which reduced unemployment from 24.5% in 1932/33 to 10% in 1937/38.

I don't mean to suggest there is no role for the federal government, just that to effectively transform a national program into local results is going to go a lot better if there are local groups helping to make that happen.

The WPA made a huge difference, there are theories that it was not only put in to bring the unemployment level down, but also to break the power of local organizations such as the UXA (http://red-coral.net/UXA_Article.html) which was one local approach to alleviating the problems.  I think that had the feds worked with, instead of against, things like the UXA that the depression could have been ended in a more even and effective way.  As it is, it took not only the WPA, and TSA, but also a world war.

The gain was before the war.  Unless you are saying that the United States was at war in 1937.

And local agencies are just one more level of complexity.

Lastly, there are all kinds of theories about how or why the WPA/TVA etc didn't work.  Only problem is, it did.

[Pergamos]

My problem is, there are no local partners in many areas.

Arizona, for example.  There's NOTHING HERE.

And the idea that the federal government can't do the job is a crock, given the success of the TVA and the WPA, which reduced unemployment from 24.5% in 1932/33 to 10% in 1937/38.

I don't mean to suggest there is no role for the federal government, just that to effectively transform a national program into local results is going to go a lot better if there are local groups helping to make that happen.

The WPA made a huge difference, there are theories that it was not only put in to bring the unemployment level down, but also to break the power of local organizations such as the UXA (http://red-coral.net/UXA_Article.html) which was one local approach to alleviating the problems.  I think that had the feds worked with, instead of against, things like the UXA that the depression could have been ended in a more even and effective way.  As it is, it took not only the WPA, and TSA, but also a world war.

The gain was before the war.  Unless you are saying that the United States was at war in 1937.

And local agencies are just one more level of complexity.

Lastly, there are all kinds of theories about how or why the WPA/TVA etc didn't work.  Only problem is, it did.

I know it did.  I'm strongly in favor of doing something similar now, our infrastructure is falling apart and we have massive unemployment, sounds like a perfect time for a massive public works program.  Won't happen with the shitheads in government though.  Being prodded by having things like UXA spring up to address the local need for work might spur them though.  UXA was a threat because it was creating an alternate economy, outside the control of the state.

[Doktor Howl]

I know it did.  I'm strongly in favor of doing something similar now, our infrastructure is falling apart and we have massive unemployment, sounds like a perfect time for a massive public works program.  Won't happen with the shitheads in government though.  Being prodded by having things like UXA spring up to address the local need for work might spur them though.  UXA was a threat because it was creating an alternate economy, outside the control of the state.

Wasn't going to happen when Hoover was president, either.  Times change.  Things get bad enough, and people start talking about stringing rich people/politicians from lamp posts, you wind up with FDR and the WPA.

And yeah, UXA was a threat.  On the level of HFT's "voluntaryism".   

[Left]

So this was actually inspired by the drugs thread, but it isn't related to drugs except as part of the issue.  RWHN said that addressing the root causes of drug use, poverty, alienation, etc. is the job of the fedral government, not local government or community coalitions. 

I think that community coalitions DO have the responsibility to fight poverty, I also think that the state and federal governments do as well.

I know I linked and brought this up:

When high school dropouts buck the trend by coming out of prison and finding steady work, they overwhelmingly hit a dead end in terms of earnings. Western and Pettit found that after being out of prison for 20 years, less than one-quarter of ex-cons who haven't finished high school were able to rise above the bottom 20 percent of income earners, a far lower percentage than for high-school dropouts who don't go to prison. They conclude that the ex-cons end up passing on their economic handicap, and by extension the propensity of ending up behind bars, to their children and their children's children in turn.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2010/10/toxic_persons.html

Jail terms come and go but a record means you're screwed for life.
For low-level, nonviolent offenses, one's record really ought to be wiped after a certain amount of time of not committing more crimes, but it isn't.

Too, rent went up while wages fell for a lot of people.

Some 10.1 million renters—more than one in four—now spend over half their
incomes on housing.

http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/sites/jchs.harvard.edu/files/ahr2011-5-affordability.pdf

Both falling incomes and rising rents have contributed to the long-run rise in cost-burdened renters. Renter income gains have been weak since 1975, leaving larger shares of renters in the lowest income quintiles. As a result, even though the real median household income rose from 1975 to 2009, the real median renter income fell. Meanwhile, the inflationadjusted cost of providing rental housing has climbed in recent decades in response to rising land costs, increases in housing quality and average unit size, and higher material and labor costs.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The housing costs situation is brutal. I'm in a situation where I'm paying $1500/mo in mortgage, but I can't afford to sell my house and rent, because I'd have a choice between paying $1700/mo in rent and living close to school, or paying $1400/mo in rent and an additional $300 in gas to drive to school.

[Left]

The housing costs situation is brutal. I'm in a situation where I'm paying $1500/mo in mortgage, but I can't afford to sell my house and rent, because I'd have a choice between paying $1700/mo in rent and living close to school, or paying $1400/mo in rent and an additional $300 in gas to drive to school.

Right.  My mom's decent enough to let me live in her old trailer-house, in rent-free trailer park splendor (And I seriously need some plastic flamingos.  Imma put pinhole cameras inside them )
But I'm spending about $60 a week on gas right now.  Which is why I (a) need to have the motorbike taken to the shop and (b) once it's running, learn how to ride it without flopping over again, and then c) learn how to ride in Houston traffic, because a critical mass of people in this town learned how to drive in Mexico.

I thought Portland had their shit together better as regards good public transport.

If I didn't have to maintain a car to keep a job, I would be saving ( I suspect) about $500 a month, averaged out over the year.  The Honda Discord is very difficult to work on, so when it goes to the shop, I don't usually get out cheaply.
Liability and uninsured motorist runs me about $50 a month.
My last car was totalled by someone with no insurance and I had liability only, which put me in a bind. Shake-n-bake(a pre-wrecked Tercel) was no big loss, but it would have enabled me not borrowing money to get the Discord.
Now if someone nails the Discord, I win a new hoopty.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The public transportation here is OK, rapidly on its way to being gutted, and costs $5/day or $100/mo to ride, which is not too shabby.

However, it is also fairly slow, and when you're self-employed, time is money, so on that front, again, it would be cheaper for me to drive than to ride the bus.

[Left]

The public transportation here is OK, rapidly on its way to being gutted, and costs $5/day or $100/mo to ride, which is not too shabby.

However, it is also fairly slow, and when you're self-employed, time is money, so on that front, again, it would be cheaper for me to drive than to ride the bus.

Makes sense, yeah.
I used to bicycle about 7-8 miles to my college, and I made better time than I would have on the bus system.