Black Face, Brown Face, Red Face, Blue Face

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

Recent movies like Star Trek and The Lone Ranger feature as one of their main characters someone doing the face of someone of another race. On SNL Fred Armisen will often play anyone of any race including the president. In Star Trek Zoe Saldana plays a black character and in The Lone Ranger Johnny Depp plays a Native American. With the history of Black-face in America it can be easy to just condemn this kind of activity outright as racist and messed up but in discussing it with a friend he seems to not understand what is so bad about it. His argument was that if it is an actor's job to play people who they aren't like space captains and wizards, why cant they transcend race barriers in their acting as well. If Zoe isn't doing anything terrible in Star Trek, then she isn't really doing anything racist or wrong. I personally find it a bit distasteful (which may have to do with me being black and him being white). What do you guys think?

[Left]

Recent movies like Star Trek and The Lone Ranger feature as one of their main characters someone doing the face of someone of another race. On SNL Fred Armisen will often play anyone of any race including the president. In Star Trek Zoe Saldana plays a black character and in The Lone Ranger Johnny Depp plays a Native American. With the history of Black-face in America it can be easy to just condemn this kind of activity outright as racist and messed up but in discussing it with a friend he seems to not understand what is so bad about it. His argument was that if it is an actor's job to play people who they aren't like space captains and wizards, why cant they transcend race barriers in their acting as well. If Zoe isn't doing anything terrible in Star Trek, then she isn't really doing anything racist or wrong. I personally find it a bit distasteful (which may have to do with me being black and him being white). What do you guys think?

Blackface was offensive not so much because of the facepaint, but because they were enacting the stereotypes of black people, laughing at the stereotypes of black people, and reinforcing the stereotypes of black people.

I'm not black though. I'm just an uppity feminazi queer he/she. What do I know?

Can you explain to me why you find it offensive?
I mean, it seems like black people ought to be acted by black people...if nothing else to give black actors more gigs, and to get people used to the idea that black people, and First Nations people as well, are actually people.  That does seem to be a problem with some sectors of the anglo populace.
And keep in mind I don't watch tv much.

( I watch it at the GF's where it is all murders, all the time.  She likes Investigation Discovery a LOT. So I get to make out to murder cases.  Hey, I get to make out, that's the important part.)

[Bu🤠ns]

I'm not sure if it's wrong or not.  Maybe it has something to do with the quality of the acting. Maybe it has something to do with portraying the character in a positive light? 

Ultimately, being causation, I'm sure it's not my place to say.

I do, however, fully support whiteface: http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

Recent movies like Star Trek and The Lone Ranger feature as one of their main characters someone doing the face of someone of another race. On SNL Fred Armisen will often play anyone of any race including the president. In Star Trek Zoe Saldana plays a black character and in The Lone Ranger Johnny Depp plays a Native American. With the history of Black-face in America it can be easy to just condemn this kind of activity outright as racist and messed up but in discussing it with a friend he seems to not understand what is so bad about it. His argument was that if it is an actor's job to play people who they aren't like space captains and wizards, why cant they transcend race barriers in their acting as well. If Zoe isn't doing anything terrible in Star Trek, then she isn't really doing anything racist or wrong. I personally find it a bit distasteful (which may have to do with me being black and him being white). What do you guys think?

Blackface was offensive not so much because of the facepaint, but because they were enacting the stereotypes of black people, laughing at the stereotypes of black people, and reinforcing the stereotypes of black people.

I'm not black though. I'm just an uppity feminazi queer he/she. What do I know?

Can you explain to me why you find it offensive?
I mean, it seems like black people ought to be acted by black people...if nothing else to give black actors more gigs, and to get people used to the idea that black people, and First Nations people as well, are actually people.  That does seem to be a problem with some sectors of the anglo populace.
And keep in mind I don't watch tv much.

( I watch it at the GF's where it is all murders, all the time.  She likes Investigation Discovery a LOT. So I get to make out to murder cases.  Hey, I get to make out, that's the important part.)

Maybe it's not so much offensive but knowing that really racist history of acting out stereotypes and generally portraying black people in a terrible light, it just puts a creep in my stomach you know. I feel uncomfortable seeing it and I feel like it's kind of messed up. Because these characters aren't always acting out stereotypes then maybe it isn't in itself wrong. That doesn't stop it makin my stomach crawl.

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

I'm not sure if it's wrong or not.  Maybe it has something to do with the quality of the acting. Maybe it has something to do with portraying the character in a positive light? 

Ultimately, being causation, I'm sure it's not my place to say.

I do, however, fully support whiteface: http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356

That I really don't know what to feel. Lemme sleep on it.

[Freeky]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

[The Johnny]

I just think that Tom Cruise playing "The Last Samurai" and Brad Pitt playing Achilles is much of an asshole move.

No, guy, Japanese and Greek heroes did not have American faces, please.

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Thought she was spanish. The wiki page says she claims pride in being Latina.

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

I just think that Tom Cruise playing "The Last Samurai" and Brad Pitt playing Achilles is much of an asshole move.

No, guy, Japanese and Greek heroes did not have American faces, please.

The Last Samurai was more objectionable for its trotting out of the "White Guy saves primitives" storyline which is racist in itself and featured in other things like Avatar.

[Freeky]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Thought she was spanish. The wikipage says she claims pride in being Latina.

-shrug-  I am not Latin or Black, so I have no idea there. As far as job applications go, though, being Latina is different from being Black or White or Asian or anything else.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Recent movies like Star Trek and The Lone Ranger feature as one of their main characters someone doing the face of someone of another race. On SNL Fred Armisen will often play anyone of any race including the president. In Star Trek Zoe Saldana plays a black character and in The Lone Ranger Johnny Depp plays a Native American. With the history of Black-face in America it can be easy to just condemn this kind of activity outright as racist and messed up but in discussing it with a friend he seems to not understand what is so bad about it. His argument was that if it is an actor's job to play people who they aren't like space captains and wizards, why cant they transcend race barriers in their acting as well. If Zoe isn't doing anything terrible in Star Trek, then she isn't really doing anything racist or wrong. I personally find it a bit distasteful (which may have to do with me being black and him being white). What do you guys think?

I hope I'm wrong, but it's like they're skating on the edge of something really, really disgusting and they're going to push it further until we're all the way back to fucking Amos and Andy.

Zoe's Dominican and Puerto Rican (just googled) and so there's more than likely some African ancestry there. Depp claims some Native (might be a Cherohonkey though.) So they have an out. Sort of.

If we had a less appallingly fucked up racial track record, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's acting. Play anybody you want. But this shit says "We're not even sorry and we're not even TRYING to make amends or get things on track or any of that. Fuck you."

Like that Washington Redskins logo. Everybody's been trying to get rid of that for decades.

REALLY, REALLY not comfortable with ANY of this.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Thought she was spanish. The wiki page says she claims pride in being Latina.

Caribbian people generally identify as Latina/Latino. But lot of them are near indistinguishable from Black people until they start speaking. Lots of African ancestry as a rule, so kind of a blurry line.  But I've only heard one refer to herself as Black. Ever.

[East Coast Hustle]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Dominicans generally consider themselves Latino. And since the Haitians are black and NOBODY on earth hates any other group of people like Dominicans hate Haitians, I could see that reinforcing the Dominicanos cultural affiliation with the "Latinsphere" at the expense of the fact that many if not most of them have African lineage in their background as well.

Just a supposition on my part, but a reasonably informed one (I'd like to think).

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

And why is TONTO even being resurrected?

[GrannySmith]

I have no moral judgement on the issue, to paraphrase Bebek Sincap Ratatosk, I don't see race, i just see genes going around in a circle 
But this reminds me of the first time i found out about the dutch "christmas" tradition of "Zwarte Piet" (black peter), dutch santa's little helpers 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
I was shocked because I saw the dutch as extremely tolerant and non-racist people. When confronted some of them with the (i thought then) obvious issue with this, they were either shocked: "what? i never saw it like that! he's just from spain!"   or they were all like "yeah yeah, i've been told before but it's you that thinks that". Occassionally one would say "yeah, i guess you're right but I never saw it like that". I dunno...i mean the dutch did elect wilders, but on the other hand everyone i talked to seemed pretty honest in their ignorance of that image. Then again, i am a VERY poor judge of honesty -  i tend to accept things literally.