the Wholy Fnord - and Experimental DiPentatheon

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Eris and Aneris, I get... though I'm not sure why Aneris should necessarily be male. That seems like an unnecessary stereotype and might give rise to the idea that the feminine is disordered and the masculine is ordered. I also find The Dude to be a poor fit for the Son/Sun archetype... particularly if he's the product of Eris/Aneris. The Dude doesn't strike me as a  balance or bridge between order and disorder, The Dude seems more likely a tie to The Fool, the innocent Parsifal starting on a journey that he doesn't understand and doesn't control, becoming something greater by the end of the journey.

As for the Magus, I would think this might be better fit with an identity of one who brings about change, the alchemical conversion of order to disorder, or disorder to order. In fact, I might be tempted to call this entity "Apophenia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia which is a cool name for a deity and also one that has shown up before in Discordia/Chaos Magic circles.

So who would the Son/Sun be, if not The Dude?

The bridge between that which is ordered and that which is disordered. Something that flip flops between the two perhaps? If we were to consider chaos theory for a moment, we may investigate the so-called "Feigenbaum sequence" that is the process wherein a system given a range of parameters is ordered for a period of time (T), when we go beyond the range the system becomes chaotic until we reach 2T (period doubling) at which point it again becomes ordered, then we reach the next threshold and the system becomes chaotic agaon until the next doubling wherein it returns to order and on and on. Perhaps an inspiration for a Son figure might arise from this?

Hey, it was your idea for me to try a bit of each... 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Allrighty.... curious configuration that is :P  I filed this wonderful curiosity for my later senile years when I plan on taking copious amounts of drugs and studying obscure mysticism.

What configuration and whats curious about it?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Eris and Aneris, I get... though I'm not sure why Aneris should necessarily be male. That seems like an unnecessary stereotype and might give rise to the idea that the feminine is disordered and the masculine is ordered. I also find The Dude to be a poor fit for the Son/Sun archetype... particularly if he's the product of Eris/Aneris. The Dude doesn't strike me as a  balance or bridge between order and disorder, The Dude seems more likely a tie to The Fool, the innocent Parsifal starting on a journey that he doesn't understand and doesn't control, becoming something greater by the end of the journey.

As for the Magus, I would think this might be better fit with an identity of one who brings about change, the alchemical conversion of order to disorder, or disorder to order. In fact, I might be tempted to call this entity "Apophenia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia which is a cool name for a deity and also one that has shown up before in Discordia/Chaos Magic circles.

So who would the Son/Sun be, if not The Dude?

The bridge between that which is ordered and that which is disordered. Something that flip flops between the two perhaps? If we were to consider chaos theory for a moment, we may investigate the so-called "Feigenbaum sequence" that is the process wherein a system given a range of parameters is ordered for a period of time (T), when we go beyond the range the system becomes chaotic until we reach 2T (period doubling) at which point it again becomes ordered, then we reach the next threshold and the system becomes chaotic agaon until the next doubling wherein it returns to order and on and on. Perhaps an inspiration for a Son figure might arise from this?

Hey, it was your idea for me to try a bit of each... 

I took my own advice. Hulk is sometimes chaos and other tiems he's bruce banner. Inspiration for the sun figure. So we get like, the father the son and HULK SMASH!!! or something like that

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Eris and Aneris, I get... though I'm not sure why Aneris should necessarily be male. That seems like an unnecessary stereotype and might give rise to the idea that the feminine is disordered and the masculine is ordered. I also find The Dude to be a poor fit for the Son/Sun archetype... particularly if he's the product of Eris/Aneris. The Dude doesn't strike me as a  balance or bridge between order and disorder, The Dude seems more likely a tie to The Fool, the innocent Parsifal starting on a journey that he doesn't understand and doesn't control, becoming something greater by the end of the journey.

As for the Magus, I would think this might be better fit with an identity of one who brings about change, the alchemical conversion of order to disorder, or disorder to order. In fact, I might be tempted to call this entity "Apophenia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia which is a cool name for a deity and also one that has shown up before in Discordia/Chaos Magic circles.

So who would the Son/Sun be, if not The Dude?

The bridge between that which is ordered and that which is disordered. Something that flip flops between the two perhaps? If we were to consider chaos theory for a moment, we may investigate the so-called "Feigenbaum sequence" that is the process wherein a system given a range of parameters is ordered for a period of time (T), when we go beyond the range the system becomes chaotic until we reach 2T (period doubling) at which point it again becomes ordered, then we reach the next threshold and the system becomes chaotic agaon until the next doubling wherein it returns to order and on and on. Perhaps an inspiration for a Son figure might arise from this?

Hey, it was your idea for me to try a bit of each... 

I took my own advice. Hulk is sometimes chaos and other tiems he's bruce banner. Inspiration for the sun figure. So we get like, the father the son and HULK SMASH!!! or something like that

I like it!

[Ixxie]

I am aware of sexual stereotyping issues, but find that they are often taken too far. Eris is female, and that's the main reason I chose to make Aneris male. The whole point of non-dualism is that these lines are blurred, and the sexual reproductive metaphor is beautiful to that end. This is the motivation for this rather arbitrary choice, but I am all for modifying this into a more LGBTH friendly pantheon if it can be done in a cool way. Maybe Maya and Lilla are Lesbian Lovers, Light and Darkness a Gay Couple, and the Dude and Hecate Transgendered in opposite directions. Ultimately - there's no fair way to do this - but this is not pretended to be some kind of ultimate correct model. Its a story telling tool.

I think you may have misunderstood my intention about the Dude - I did not intend him as a balancing force. The idea was to symbolize a Directional Guide from Order to Disorder (i.e. the typical Mystic) and conversely a Directional Guide from Disorder to Order (i.e. the typical Wizard/Witch). Thus these offspring do correspond to phase transitions in chaotic systems - each in a different direction. Incidentally - when I made this, I figured the gender issue you mentioned is elegantly mitigated by a Male Mystic archetype which moves from the Male Aneris to the Female Eris, and conversly a Female Witch archetype moving from the Female Eris to the Male Aneris.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If we consider Apophenia as the Magus, we could say that the Magus IS (in some sense) Perception, the magic of finding order in the disorder. Finding patterns, creating filters that allow us to create the the world around us. Indeed, one could say that Apophenia could be considered responsible for all religion, magic and other concepts that require humans to perceive patterns where they are none.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I am aware of sexual stereotyping issues, but find that they are often taken too far. Eris is female, and that's the main reason I chose to make Aneris male. The whole point of non-dualism is that these lines are blurred, and the sexual reproductive metaphor is beautiful to that end. This is the motivation for this rather arbitrary choice, but I am all for modifying this into a more LGBTH friendly pantheon if it can be done in a cool way. Maybe Maya and Lilla are Lesbian Lovers, Light and Darkness a Gay Couple, and the Dude and Hecate Transgendered in opposite directions. Ultimately - there's no fair way to do this - but this is not pretended to be some kind of ultimate correct model. Its a story telling tool.

I think you may have misunderstood my intention about the Dude - I did not intend him as a balancing force. The idea was to symbolize a Directional Guide from Order to Disorder (i.e. the typical Mystic) and conversely a Directional Guide from Disorder to Order (i.e. the typical Wizard/Witch). Thus these offspring do correspond to phase transitions in chaotic systems - each in a different direction. Incidentally - when I made this, I figured the gender issue you mentioned is elegantly mitigated by a Male Mystic archetype which moves from the Male Aneris to the Female Eris, and conversly a Female Witch archetype moving from the Female Eris to the Male Aneris.

Oh I wasn't going for LBGTH specific stuff... but rather I find that the sexual identity may detract from the concept. Having them as sisters, in my mind gives them an association without bringing gender into the discussion. Besides, its not like order and disorder are boinking each other to bring about offspring, rather, Order and Disorder are perceptions of Chaos, no?

Eris and Aneris the children of Chaos, the Magus and Witch are that which interpret the perception and the Fool, Parsifal is the one who begins the journey without knowledge, he then must be transformed* so that by the end of the journey learns the power of the Magus and Witch and thus can order and disorder as he wishes, perhaps in this way becoming The Hierophant (Experience, Knowledge, Duality).

*Transformed through sacrifice in some sense... for are we not all forced to sacrifice when we embrace the absurd? Like Odin hung on Yggdrasil and losing an eye to gain knowledge, we sacrifice the blissful Conformity and Normality and gain the knowledge and power of Absurdity.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I may be misinterpreting you ixxie but are you saying that ahura mazda is a configuration of the chao? Because that feels a bit like trying to put the square peg in the round hole.

[Ixxie]

I guess Apophenia corresponds then to Hecate / the Witch. The reverse is perceiving the random patterns in what you thought was order - and this, imo, is the the mystical initiation. This is why I put the Mystic as opposing the Witch.

I donno man, I find the whole PC avoidance of gender in this taking the issue to far. As long as we remember Mythos is just a story and a metaphor and nothing more this is fine imo. The Sexual symbolism is so elegant I find it a shame to drop it, so I won't.

My understanding is that as babies - we are far more Erisian then after education. The typical process seems to be that in growing up we must have Apophenia in order to recognize general patterns by habit (fire=hot). But then we need to learn that this is just an Aneristic Illusion in one sense - and to learn to treat it as a tool and be able to see through it to the randomness. This lesson comes from initiation into mysticism, and does indeed entail a sort of sacrifice.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I guess Apophenia corresponds then to Hecate / the Witch. The reverse is perceiving the random patterns in what you thought was order - and this, imo, is the the mystical initiation. This is why I put the Mystic as opposing the Witch.

Indeed!

I donno man, I find the whole PC avoidance of gender in this taking the issue to far. As long as we remember Mythos is just a story and a metaphor and nothing more this is fine imo. The Sexual symbolism is so elegant I find it a shame to drop it, so I won't.

I'm not intending this to be PC or non-PC... I just don't see the elegance of sexual symbolism between order and disorder. These seem opposed and divergent aspects/interpretations of Chaos, rather than two things that come together to create. Which is why I see the sibling (could be brother/sister the sex of the individuals doesn't seem as key as the 'relationship' between them) as more symbolic than one with sexual connotations.

My understanding is that as babies - we are far more Erisian then after education. The typical process seems to be that in growing up we must have Apophenia in order to recognize general patterns by habit (fire=hot). But then we need to learn that this is just an Aneristic Illusion in one sense - and to learn to treat it as a tool and be able to see through it to the randomness. This lesson comes from initiation into mysticism, and does indeed entail a sort of sacrifice.

The knowledge of a sage and the wisdom of a child

[P3nT4gR4m]

Stop trying to desex my mysticism, damnit! I'll have you know I fapped one off to every sephira on the otz chaim 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Stop trying to desex my mysticism, damnit! I'll have you know I fapped one off to every sephira on the otz chaim 

You could fap to brother/sister mysticism... ITS TRADITIONAL!

[P3nT4gR4m]

Stop trying to desex my mysticism, damnit! I'll have you know I fapped one off to every sephira on the otz chaim 

You could fap to brother/sister mysticism... ITS TRADITIONAL!

Could they be dressed up as my little pony? No particular reason, just wondering if that could maybe happen?

[trippinprincezz13]

I'm sorry, but you just can't use the Dude in there. I've already soul-bonded with him because deep down, my fursona is an oriental rug.