Trigger warning: Drugs

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Most of the damage associated with use have been from from impurities rather than the drugs themselves.

1.  Link?

2.  Does it matter?  Turns people into cannibal zombies.  CANNIBAL ZOMBIES.  Doesn't matter HOW it happens.

The Miami Zombie had synthetic weed in his system and did not have "bath salts" in his system,  that's something that for some reason didn't get a lot of media play.

YEAH WE ALREADY KINDA COVERED THAT

[The Good Reverend Roger]

WE COVERED ALL KINDS OF OTHER SHIT, TOO.  LIKE THE DOCUMENTED EFFECTS OF MEPHADRONE AND MPVD. 

[Pergamos]

No contortions, it is simple.  If it was being used as an alternative prevalence would be higher.

99% of people who use synth use weed.

93% of those people prefer weed.

Let's see.

I prefer Indian food to Spam.

If I have no other food, I will eat Spam.

This leads you to believe that I will eat Spam when Indian food is available?  Because I don't eat Spam every day?

Not sure where you're getting that logic.

Here is what you are missing.  Yes, in this survey, 99% of the SYNTH users were also using natural cannabis.  But, flip that, what percentage of natural cannabis users are using synth.  If it is the alternative you say it is, a very large percentage of natural users should also be using synth, yes?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57601387/new-u.s-drug-survey-marijuana-and-heroin-increasing/
[/size]
[/size]Nationally, there are about 7.6 million Americans using marijuana daily.  Now, if synth is a true alternative, we should have near 7.6 million using synth correct?
[/size]
[/size]If you have statistics showing this to be the case I would be interested to see them.

No, a large percentage of natural users using synth would occur only if prohibition had been widely successful at reducing access to natural weed.

[AFK]

Sorry, it's already been established and agreed to in this thread that it has reduced access and availability.

[Pergamos]

Law of aneristic escalation?  Create a law, new stuff squishes out the sides in the face of wider public acceptance, new laws have to be made to deal with the stuff that squished out the side, lather, rinse, repeat?



Just thinking out loud here.

A reminder of what I'm trying to say.

But a new law isn't being created.  We are talking about whether or not to undo a law that already exists.  Your starting point is incorrect.

And you have repeatedly stated that you are in favor of some of the existing laws being changed.  You want diversion, and for people with two baggies not to be charged with intent to distribute, and a whole raft of other changes in the laws. 

[Pergamos]

Sorry, it's already been established and agreed to in this thread that it has reduced access and availability.

Yep, in unpredictable ways that lead to a small number of weed smokers trying shit that has led to people eating other people's faces.  Sounds like it reduces access in bad ways, while not making much of a dent in overall use. 

[Pergamos]

WE COVERED ALL KINDS OF OTHER SHIT, TOO.  LIKE THE DOCUMENTED EFFECTS OF MEPHADRONE AND MPVD.

Yep, caught up now, but Mephedrone and MPVD are not in synthetic weed.  A lot of things are, cause they keep changing what is as another thing gets made illegal, but MPVD and Mephedrone mimic Methamphetemine, not THC.  Methamphetemine is pretty awful to begin with so an analog that is supposed to be like it is also going to be awful.

THC meanwhile makes most people vegetate on the couch and eat cheetos, you would not expect an analog substance to make them go out in the street and eat other people's faces.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

WE COVERED ALL KINDS OF OTHER SHIT, TOO.  LIKE THE DOCUMENTED EFFECTS OF MEPHADRONE AND MPVD.

Yep, caught up now, but Mephedrone and MPVD are not in synthetic weed.  A lot of things are, cause they keep changing what is as another thing gets made illegal, but MPVD and Mephedrone mimic Methamphetemine, not THC.  Methamphetemine is pretty awful to begin with so an analog that is supposed to be like it is also going to be awful.

THC meanwhile makes most people vegetate on the couch and eat cheetos, you would not expect an analog substance to make them go out in the street and eat other people's faces.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/27/us/florida-cannibal-attack/index.html

The only thing the Zombie dude had in his system was Marijuana.

His body didn't show "any other street drugs, alcohol or prescription drugs, or any adulterants found in street drugs," according to the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner Department.
"The department has also sought the assistance of an outside forensic toxicology reference laboratory, which has confirmed the absence of 'bath salts,' synthetic marijuana and LSD," the statement said.

That dude was just some kind of fucked up crazy.

[Pergamos]

hmm, the article I read must have been inaccurate.  I can't find it anymore now.

[Salty]

hmm, the article I read must have been inaccurate.  I can't find it anymore now.

This will fly on the banner at the next über secret conclave.

[Junkenstein]

And the "real potheads" part doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that the "real wine connoisseurs have moved on to vodka".

Nonsense. Real wine connoisseurs have moved on to port. It's classier.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure there's a bunch of UK studies showing "legal highs" (mainly marijuana look/"feel"alkies) are almost universally worse than the actual drug.

Once again, because, drug thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt


See you in 30 pages, have fun.

Heroin is misclassified.  If it is pure and of known potency it doesn't cause all that much physical harm.

Please present your credentials placing you as a better judge of this than the VAST amount of research Nutt put into that chart and as a direct result, getting himself sacked.

[Pergamos]

And the "real potheads" part doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that the "real wine connoisseurs have moved on to vodka".

Nonsense. Real wine connoisseurs have moved on to port. It's classier.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure there's a bunch of UK studies showing "legal highs" (mainly marijuana look/"feel"alkies) are almost universally worse than the actual drug.

Once again, because, drug thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt


See you in 30 pages, have fun.

Heroin is misclassified.  If it is pure and of known potency it doesn't cause all that much physical harm.

Please present your credentials placing you as a better judge of this than the VAST amount of research Nutt put into that chart and as a direct result, getting himself sacked.

Just going with everything I have read on the subject.  Heroin is incredibly addictive, moreso than any other substance as far as I can tell, but the health problems from it are mostly due either to impurities or junkies not taking care of themselves in other ways cause they don't care cause they are on heroin, or from the problems with injecting.

[Salty]

I'm guessing it's up there because junkies aren't so good at moderation, usually. And without that heroin is, usually, a nice easy way to fill your lungs with fluid.

You'd have to shove a LOT of cocaine up your nose, but it doesnt take THAT much heroin to do the job.

Relatively speaking.

I mean, jesus, poppy seed tea can kill you at random, FFS.

But yes, drug thread, do go on.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

And the "real potheads" part doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that the "real wine connoisseurs have moved on to vodka".

Nonsense. Real wine connoisseurs have moved on to port. It's classier.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure there's a bunch of UK studies showing "legal highs" (mainly marijuana look/"feel"alkies) are almost universally worse than the actual drug.

Once again, because, drug thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt


See you in 30 pages, have fun.

Heroin is misclassified.  If it is pure and of known potency it doesn't cause all that much physical harm.

Please present your credentials placing you as a better judge of this than the VAST amount of research Nutt put into that chart and as a direct result, getting himself sacked.

Just going with everything I have read on the subject.  Heroin is incredibly addictive, moreso than any other substance as far as I can tell, but the health problems from it are mostly due either to impurities or junkies not taking care of themselves in other ways cause they don't care cause they are on heroin, or from the problems with injecting.

So basically you're saying that other than being highly addictive and rapidly tolerance-forming, if it is free from contamination and dosage error and they don't get complications at the injection sites from frequent injections and if they can just take care of themselves appropriately while being addicted to it, heroin is pretty much perfectly safe.

Yep. I think I agree with that.

[Pergamos]

And the "real potheads" part doesn't even make sense. It's like saying that the "real wine connoisseurs have moved on to vodka".

Nonsense. Real wine connoisseurs have moved on to port. It's classier.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure there's a bunch of UK studies showing "legal highs" (mainly marijuana look/"feel"alkies) are almost universally worse than the actual drug.

Once again, because, drug thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt


See you in 30 pages, have fun.

Heroin is misclassified.  If it is pure and of known potency it doesn't cause all that much physical harm.

Please present your credentials placing you as a better judge of this than the VAST amount of research Nutt put into that chart and as a direct result, getting himself sacked.

Just going with everything I have read on the subject.  Heroin is incredibly addictive, moreso than any other substance as far as I can tell, but the health problems from it are mostly due either to impurities or junkies not taking care of themselves in other ways cause they don't care cause they are on heroin, or from the problems with injecting.

So basically you're saying that other than being highly addictive and rapidly tolerance-forming, if it is free from contamination and dosage error and they don't get complications at the injection sites from frequent injections and if they can just take care of themselves appropriately while being addicted to it, heroin is pretty much perfectly safe.

Yep. I think I agree with that.

Yep, basically exactly that.  as opposed to methamphetemine, which even if pure  nd of known quality and all those other qualifiers still eats your bones and teeth