Gurus

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.

Ever seen a black guru?

I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?

Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.

Ever seen a black guru?

I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?

Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.

Yep.  And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).

Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Here's what's always bothered me about gurus:

Explain the functional difference between "Guru" and "Gang Leader".

Seriously.

The two roles share so much in common they could be synonyms. It gets even closer when you add "wannabe" to this.

It seems to be an insane desire to be IN CHARGE of things. Everything. Nothing. Petty things become the world and you must not question the importance of the thing. Sick of the bullshit? Want to walk away? What's the difference in reaction between Scientology and [intimidating street gang]? Well, Street gang might kill you, or you and your family if we're talking big leagues. Scientology will keep you alive, bleed you dry and make your life a living hell until you keel over. Some would say street gang is more humane. Remember, that's a bunch of Guru's you've heard of. Imagine the kind of evil shit "Uncle Sammy's church of eternal joy" gets up to. Reckon Westboro Baptists are the craziest out there? Wanna bet?

When you say "Monkey behaviour" you're so very correct. Damaged Primates playing their own dominance games because they're unable to interact with larger society. Look at how gang membership drops when the members are employed. Consider why LOCAL CULT expects you to quit your job and move out to their compound.

"Gurus". A fad that should have died with the fucking Beatles.

Ever seen a black guru?

I could say I've seen a number of various religious types (Mainstream and non) as well as a variety of professionals that would fit the "lifestyle" angle. I wasn't really considering this from a race angle yet, to be honest I was writing with the generic rich Indian guru in mind. The guy with the bentleys specifically. Am I missing something?

Probably a cultural barrier. In the US, a white cult leader who is involved in drug crime is a guru/cult leader, a black or Hispanic one is a gang lord.

Yep.  And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).

Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.

And they are never described as "Charismatic" or "Intelligent", but as "Violent" and "Intimidating".

[Junkenstein]

Ah, got it. Not thought about that side of things at all. There's probably something to play with there.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Is it worth bringing up the point that you get appointed Pope and you elect yourself Guru?

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

Are we including monks and similar spiritual people in our definition of guru? we seem to be focusing a lot on American cult leaders.

[Demolition Squid]

I think there's definitely an important distinction to be made between the motivations of gurus.

Like in the OP. Gang Lords, Scientologists, Charlie Manson, crazy or just plain evil bastards who are nakedly out for themselves are one thing. Then there's people who genuinely want to help others better themselves - your Gandhis, Martin Luther Kings, and Founding Father style figures.

Being a leader isn't inherently a bad thing. Its the old saying - the people who want to lead are the last people you want doing it. But sometimes- not often for sure but not never- there are people who find themselves elevated because they really do have something to say worth listening to, and they really do have to show us what.

If the word 'guru' has to contain both those meanings, it is a useless word. One of these groups of people is worth listening to, and one of them isn't, though they are ALL likely to wind up torn to shreds by history and their own followers, given long enough.

[Cain]

Yep.  And white crime lords have a mystique about them (Al Capone, etc).

Black, Hispanic, and Asian crime lords are thugs.

And they are never described as "Charismatic" or "Intelligent", but as "Violent" and "Intimidating".

I don't know about that.

El Chapo and Pablo Escobar were described both described as highly charismatic and intelligent, despite the evidence to the contrary (especially with Guzman).  And the adoption of gang culture by hip-hop has added a certain mystique to some black gang leaders.

I suspect it has a lot more to do with their links to the existing power structure than race per se, though historically Italian and Irish organized crime would have been more acceptable to a mostly white power elite than blacks, hispanics and Jews (still discriminated against, depending on the exact period, but relatively speaking). 

For example, both El Chapo and Escobar were involved in supporting the Contras with the CIA, and had high level links within their own native governments.  They could flaunt their wealth and lifestyle prominently, in the way "respectable" white gangsters used to, and so got a reputation for a Robin Hood kind of status and public charity, despite, you know, the bombings and assassinations and torture in basements.

As the power structure has diversified, so has the level of acceptance.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I was speaking primarily in terms of how American popular media refers to these small cults that run drugs (there were a ton in the NW in the 80's and 90's) with white charismatic leaders vs. primarily black groups with black charismatic leaders who engage in the same activities, because that's what I'm surrounded by, which is why I mentioned to Junkenstein there may be a cultural barrier between his perceptions and my perceptions.