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Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, November 27, 2013, 04:52:34 PM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on April 05, 2014, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 05, 2014, 01:15:40 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 04, 2014, 10:00:45 PM
I know, I'm unheathily addicted to this topic:

http://boingboing.net/2014/04/04/rupaul.html

It seems Ms Malloy has a real problem with Ru Paul.  And objectivity.  And drag queens.

I'm glad Andrea wrote that, and it breaks my heart to see narrow-minded cishet men who have transformed themselves into narrow-minded translesbians targeting the old guard who have worked hardest, faced the most danger from society, and done the most to promote social acceptance, for their hatred and bigotry.

I woke up this morning to my twitter feed containing a mixture of rants and discussion about that article, from the other perspective. (I didn't know Andrea or Mallory existed yesterday.) Apparently the "young guard" (??) bears a lot of resentment to the old guard, and claim the old guard is/was gender policing young trans people, e.g., that you must be attracted to men to be a real trans woman (b/c all women are attracted to men or something?)

I wonder how much of that is actual pressure they're receiving from oldschool transexuals and crossdressers, and how much is their own personal insecurity?

I also think that there is a small (minority, yet vocal) subset of the trans community which consists of the same mindset of young XY as enters the PUA and MRA communities, who need an external enemy to use as a scapegoat for their internal conflicts, who carry a deeply-embedded sense of entitlement, and have come to believe that all their problems will be solved if they just do this one thing hard enough, and can "defeat" the "enemy". So, they rail against the people who, rather than seeking to be entirely one or the other, straddle the line between man and women; the people who are comfortable being identified as chicks with dicks. They're the most threatening, because they reside in the gray area these particular young newly-minted transwomen want to see eradicated; the area they think is the source of their personal pain.

The reason I specify XY person is a particular one; they are, and have historically been, the most highly susceptible to cults and extremist movements, as well as the most combative. I have met some, but far fewer, transmen who espouse that level of extremist thinking.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I think the entitlement aspect is pretty crucial, as it's pervasive through the mindset, whether we're talking about people who feel entitled to a woman's time and attention, people who feel entitled to walk away from supporting their children, or people who feel entitled to call the shots for all trans* people, including those who were fighting for equality before the entitled ones were born.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end1.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.
















1No pun intended.

hooplala

I think there's something to that.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 07, 2014, 12:25:48 PM
I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end1.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2014, 02:58:53 AM
I think the entitlement aspect is pretty crucial, as it's pervasive through the mindset, whether we're talking about people who feel entitled to a woman's time and attention, people who feel entitled to walk away from supporting their children, or people who feel entitled to call the shots for all trans* people, including those who were fighting for equality before the entitled ones were born.

Well, it's HARD for them to be the HERO, when they are standing in the shadows of titans.

So the titans have to be removed.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

hooplala

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 07, 2014, 12:25:48 PM
I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end1.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.

You're basically saying the same thing LMNO did, though.  To paraphrase both: "the homophobes who deserve derision simply don't give a shit, so they turn on whoever is at least paying attention"
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Hoopla on April 07, 2014, 04:10:09 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:05:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 07, 2014, 12:25:48 PM
I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end1.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.

You're basically saying the same thing LMNO did, though.  The homophobes who deserve derision simply don't give a shit, so they turn on whoever is at least paying attention.

Sorry, lack of sleep on my end.   :oops:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

hooplala

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you. :wink:   But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Hoopla on April 07, 2014, 04:19:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allies are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you. :wink:   But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.

The end result is the same, the motive is slightly different.  They do not ignore the yahoos because the yahoos cannot understand them.  They ignore the yahoos because the allies are already in the tent, already understand, and just need to be flogged into obedience to the SJW guru in question

Half the work, far better results.  For a given goal, anyway.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

hooplala

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on April 07, 2014, 04:19:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allies are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you. :wink:   But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.

The end result is the same, the motive is slightly different.  They do not ignore the yahoos because the yahoos cannot understand them.  They ignore the yahoos because the allies are already in the tent, already understand, and just need to be flogged into obedience to the SJW guru in question

Half the work, far better results.  For a given goal, anyway.

Ah, I see.

Well then:

Quote from: Hoopla on April 07, 2014, 12:29:49 PM
I think there's something to that.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 07, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

Status games. Much more important instantly gratifying than some complex problem with no simple solution.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark


The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.