The Final Word™ on the whole atheist/theist thing.

[The Johnny]

If you want to worship MyLittlePony i wouldnt care, as long as youre a swell person... but what do i get instead?

To the right a bunch of fanatical assholes that "have faith in" a person that preached love and peace but do the opposite.

To the left a bunch of angry and passive-agressive assholes that think they are superior snowflakes (and usually with a correlation to libertardianism).

As I've stated before: "beliefs =/= actions" AND "intentions < thoughts < actions"

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I'm having a crisis of faith, aren't I?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

[hooplala]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

It is the terrible secret of space.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

It is the terrible secret of space.

I guess at this point, which terrible secret do we want, and which terrible secret do we actually get?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

It is the terrible secret of space.

I guess at this point, which terrible secret do we want, and which terrible secret do we actually get?

Please go stand by the stairs.

[Left]

I cannot get past the idea that I habitually stop existing every night, and therefore will not survive physical death when my brain irreparably breaks.

Twid,
Wants more data

Shit, my reply evaporated...
What I said was something like this:

Evidence is that the brain, during sleep, still has *some* cognitive function occurring, if nothing more than REM housecleaning/jungian symbolmaking...
It's just that memory formation is mostly inhibited, due to the brain's need to flush metabolic toxins out.

So...Twid is still *there*, except Twid is not forming memory of Twid being there.
But Twid is still there about as much as anything is there, given what we know of particle physics.

So are you your ability to self-reflect?  Is that the entirety  of you? If that is not the entirety of you what IS the entirety of you?

How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us?

A friend on Fetlife claims that Jesus just forgot the safeword, and was too proud to 'fess up and ask...

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

That's an entirely different question, probably just a human one. 
Humans find psychological comfort in projecting meaning. 
It's psychologically adaptive to make narrative out of what's really random shit happening, because this makes us feel we have more control than we actually do.
My own opinion? No meaning.
  Meaning seems (to yours truly) to imply something that stands outside and "above," the system, conferring meaning...and I doubt there is that.
Even though intellectually I think it has value to craft meaning, I can't seem to believe in the meanings and narratives I've crafted.
I think I'm naturally somewhat knurd in that respect?

At any rate, what could confer meaning on such a fantastic edifice?  I mean, in the Hindu cosmology, even the Gods are subject to death and rebirth, right?

[P3nT4gR4m]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

Idunno about "horrible" I'm more in the - hard to get your head around it - camp but, whatever the case turns out to be, I think it's awesome as fuck

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I cannot get past the idea that I habitually stop existing every night, and therefore will not survive physical death when my brain irreparably breaks.

Twid,
Wants more data

Shit, my reply evaporated...
What I said was something like this:

Evidence is that the brain, during sleep, still has *some* cognitive function occurring, if nothing more than REM housecleaning/jungian symbolmaking...
It's just that memory formation is mostly inhibited, due to the brain's need to flush metabolic toxins out.

So...Twid is still *there*, except Twid is not forming memory of Twid being there.
But Twid is still there about as much as anything is there, given what we know of particle physics.

So are you your ability to self-reflect?  Is that the entirety  of you? If that is not the entirety of you what IS the entirety of you?

How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us?

A friend on Fetlife claims that Jesus just forgot the safeword, and was too proud to 'fess up and ask...

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

That's an entirely different question, probably just a human one. 
Humans find psychological comfort in projecting meaning. 
It's psychologically adaptive to make narrative out of what's really random shit happening, because this makes us feel we have more control than we actually do.
My own opinion? No meaning.
  Meaning seems (to yours truly) to imply something that stands outside and "above," the system, conferring meaning...and I doubt there is that.
Even though intellectually I think it has value to craft meaning, I can't seem to believe in the meanings and narratives I've crafted.
I think I'm naturally somewhat knurd in that respect?

At any rate, what could confer meaning on such a fantastic edifice?  I mean, in the Hindu cosmology, even the Gods are subject to death and rebirth, right?

So are the Gaelic gods. Matter of fact, the gods of Ireland are proven in mythology to be totally killable by a human hand, with no extra magic involved.

But, ok, I form no new memories in between falling asleep and dreaming and dreaming is probably necessary for brain stuff.

I still experience nothing and form no new memories, and experience and memories are still dependent on machinery. Software is all fine and dandy, but once the computer breaks, the computer breaks and the program is lost.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I suppose that's natural. Instinct is to survive and reproduce, but what does survive mean, even within a spiritual context? Given that immortality of the soul exists, what does that entail after the various phases of the universe? We're currently in the stelliferous era, where stars are still being born. When stars stop forming and start dying (on the order of trillions of years, which, is well beyond the current age of the universe, 13.8 billion years) then it's all dying stars and black holes. No biological life. What do souls do during that whole damn time? Is immortality even worth it at that point? What do they do beyond that, into the degenerate era, and even way way way way way way^way beyond that when degenerate matter decays into diffuse, useless particles? Where are souls then?

Or, even better, where was I for the 13.8 billion years before August, 1981? I don't remember anything before August 1985, even though I was there.

Given that Heaven and Hell exist, what does Eternity mean? And not in the pure definition of the words, but what is the point? What is the point of everlasting love and reward vs everlasting hate and punishment? How is it that we can be more forgiving than God? How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us? Does that not make us more perfect than our perfect creator? That we are more readily able to forgive than he, since we require no blood sacrifice, unless in a twisted sense of communal vengeance?

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

AND WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

What it suggests to me is that we created the creator, as all other interpretations are too depressing to consider.

I'm starting to think that all interpretations are sufficiently depressing in their own way.

Mortality is horrible.

So is immortality.

Lack of agency behind the universe is horrible.

So is agency behind the universe.

Idunno about "horrible" I'm more in the - hard to get your head around it - camp but, whatever the case turns out to be, I think it's awesome as fuck

It is awesome. And awful. It can be both at the same time.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I cannot get past the idea that I habitually stop existing every night, and therefore will not survive physical death when my brain irreparably breaks.

Twid,
Wants more data

Shit, my reply evaporated...
What I said was something like this:

Evidence is that the brain, during sleep, still has *some* cognitive function occurring, if nothing more than REM housecleaning/jungian symbolmaking...
It's just that memory formation is mostly inhibited, due to the brain's need to flush metabolic toxins out.

So...Twid is still *there*, except Twid is not forming memory of Twid being there.
But Twid is still there about as much as anything is there, given what we know of particle physics.

So are you your ability to self-reflect?  Is that the entirety  of you? If that is not the entirety of you what IS the entirety of you?

How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us?

A friend on Fetlife claims that Jesus just forgot the safeword, and was too proud to 'fess up and ask...

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

That's an entirely different question, probably just a human one. 
Humans find psychological comfort in projecting meaning. 
It's psychologically adaptive to make narrative out of what's really random shit happening, because this makes us feel we have more control than we actually do.
My own opinion? No meaning.
  Meaning seems (to yours truly) to imply something that stands outside and "above," the system, conferring meaning...and I doubt there is that.
Even though intellectually I think it has value to craft meaning, I can't seem to believe in the meanings and narratives I've crafted.
I think I'm naturally somewhat knurd in that respect?

At any rate, what could confer meaning on such a fantastic edifice?  I mean, in the Hindu cosmology, even the Gods are subject to death and rebirth, right?

So are the Gaelic gods. Matter of fact, the gods of Ireland are proven in mythology to be totally killable by a human hand, with no extra magic involved.

But, ok, I form no new memories in between falling asleep and dreaming and dreaming is probably necessary for brain stuff.

I still experience nothing and form no new memories, and experience and memories are still dependent on machinery. Software is all fine and dandy, but once the computer breaks, the computer breaks and the program is lost.

My personal theory is that "you" is the program. When the program runs, that's you. So you die and a couple of years later someone recreates the program, byte for byte, that's you as well. Human mind functions more like software than hardware, so it makes sense to me that it can stop, start, branch, restart, rewind, whatever...

This only works if either there's no soul or if the soul can "attach" to a new instance of the program. Only time will tell.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I cannot get past the idea that I habitually stop existing every night, and therefore will not survive physical death when my brain irreparably breaks.

Twid,
Wants more data

Shit, my reply evaporated...
What I said was something like this:

Evidence is that the brain, during sleep, still has *some* cognitive function occurring, if nothing more than REM housecleaning/jungian symbolmaking...
It's just that memory formation is mostly inhibited, due to the brain's need to flush metabolic toxins out.

So...Twid is still *there*, except Twid is not forming memory of Twid being there.
But Twid is still there about as much as anything is there, given what we know of particle physics.

So are you your ability to self-reflect?  Is that the entirety  of you? If that is not the entirety of you what IS the entirety of you?

How is it, at least in the Christian model, that God had to give himself up in the worse BDSM experiment ever in order to forgive us?

A friend on Fetlife claims that Jesus just forgot the safeword, and was too proud to 'fess up and ask...

Given that Reincarnation is real, where does Samsara end? Where is the lesson over? What is the point in repeating life? Life on Earth specifically to boot?

That's an entirely different question, probably just a human one. 
Humans find psychological comfort in projecting meaning. 
It's psychologically adaptive to make narrative out of what's really random shit happening, because this makes us feel we have more control than we actually do.
My own opinion? No meaning.
  Meaning seems (to yours truly) to imply something that stands outside and "above," the system, conferring meaning...and I doubt there is that.
Even though intellectually I think it has value to craft meaning, I can't seem to believe in the meanings and narratives I've crafted.
I think I'm naturally somewhat knurd in that respect?

At any rate, what could confer meaning on such a fantastic edifice?  I mean, in the Hindu cosmology, even the Gods are subject to death and rebirth, right?

So are the Gaelic gods. Matter of fact, the gods of Ireland are proven in mythology to be totally killable by a human hand, with no extra magic involved.

But, ok, I form no new memories in between falling asleep and dreaming and dreaming is probably necessary for brain stuff.

I still experience nothing and form no new memories, and experience and memories are still dependent on machinery. Software is all fine and dandy, but once the computer breaks, the computer breaks and the program is lost.

My personal theory is that "you" is the program. When the program runs, that's you. So you die and a couple of years later someone recreates the program, byte for byte, that's you as well. Human mind functions more like software than hardware, so it makes sense to me that it can stop, start, branch, restart, rewind, whatever...

This only works if either there's no soul or if the soul can "attach" to a new instance of the program. Only time will tell.

Hmmm.

I will ponder this.