OPEN BAR: it rubs the lotion on the skin or it gets the hose again

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).

Some pretty amazing educators have suggested alternatives that have proven to be better. But here in the US, we don't trust educators.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).

Some pretty amazing educators have suggested alternatives that have proven to be better. But here in the US, we don't trust educators.

In some ways, Canada is amazingly conservative.  The general opinion is (or was) that the rote method works well enough, and is known to work well enough, to instill the basic knowledge required to be a functioning member of society, so why change it?

I do remember how miserable it was, how boring it was, and the fact that the entire system was based on humiliation.  On the other hand, I learned almost every non-technical thing I really do know before I moved to the states.

[Eater of Clowns]

I'm glad to see you're back, Roger, and still in possession of both eyes. I was almost certain, almost, that much like Odin traded his for wisdom that you were trading yours for hate.

[LMNO]

When you're in the context you're in, it becomes far too easy to do.


PS- Number 5 made me LOL.

It does. But then also, today after posting that I went to lab, and after lab I ran into a girl I took public speaking class with. This girl is awesome, very interested in health, and is one of the kindest hearts I've ever met, but she has a really hard time with math and science because her analytical thinking skills are not very strong. And she knows it... she talks about how she's "dumb" and when she says that, looking at her sweet kind interested face it makes me want to cry, because she's NOT DUMB. She's an awesome person. I really like her, a lot. And falling for that particular brand of elitism would require me to place her in a class below my own, intellectually, and that is PURE BULLSHIT. Because she wants to learn, she loves learning, she is in school because even though she has always found learning analytical subjects hard she really, really wants to do it. She has taken a lot of classes twice. Am I seriously going to look down on her because she has a harder time solving puzzles than I do? You know, fuck that, no fucking way! And the thing is, there are a lot of people who haven't even had the exposure she's had to critical thinking, for whom it doesn't come naturally, who have been condescended to and shoved aside instead of having anyone say look, here's the thing, it's not that you're wrong it's that I wonder if you've ever had anyone explain this thing to you this way.

And then I think, shit, I have been an asshole so many times in my life to someone who wasn't stupid but just hadn't been in a situation where learning could happen. And I have probably been an asshole today. And I will probably also be an asshole tomorrow. But maybe what I need to do to learn is be less of an asshole and not look down on people just because their problem-solving aptitude isn't very good.

Which is hard, and I totally fucking admit that I am not that good at it.

I'm starting to get the feeling I need to do more of this.  I have to admit, I've been a smug intellectual longer than I care to admit, longer even than when I realized I was doing it wrong.

And I've been wrong.  So many, many times.

"Be less of an asshole."  I like that.  Hard to do.  But I want to try.

It's incredibly hard. And that's part of the thing I think I need to think and write about. Because reality is, some people are smarter than others, in terms of analytical, problem-solving thinking. And when we fall into a particular range of analytical problem-solvers, we tend to surround ourselves with other analytical problem-solvers who fall into a similar range. The particular range I, and I think many of the people on PD fall into, are people who are logically proficient, yet not dependent on an idealized logical view; in other words, capable of taking illogical human nature into account, while still remaining analytical and logical and not assuming an ideal situation could ever actually manifest. Ook ook, and all that. Realizing that human feels complicate logic.

But actually dealing with people who are not as proficient at logic can be incredibly frustrating, and it's easy to simply dismiss BOTH people who are less proficient with calculating logic AND people who are less proficient with calculating feelings as being "dumb". And therein, really, lies a quandary.

I'm awesome in school.  I've just started to learn what life is about.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm glad to see you're back, Roger, and still in possession of both eyes. I was almost certain, almost, that much like Odin traded his for wisdom that you were trading yours for hate.

Which is a complete RIP OFF, because I ALREADY HAD the hate.

And how fucking much wisdom do you get for giving up an eye?  Maybe be you learn shit like "don't give up organs for intangible things."

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).

Some pretty amazing educators have suggested alternatives that have proven to be better. But here in the US, we don't trust educators.

In some ways, Canada is amazingly conservative.  The general opinion is (or was) that the rote method works well enough, and is known to work well enough, to instill the basic knowledge required to be a functioning member of society, so why change it?

I do remember how miserable it was, how boring it was, and the fact that the entire system was based on humiliation.  On the other hand, I learned almost every non-technical thing I really do know before I moved to the states.

Yeah, but can you see the flaw? Especially when it comes to the non-technical things you know? I know you KNOW the flaw, because you have said it out loud to my face more than a few times. Whether you can see it in this context may be another question. That flaw is possibly the biggest failure of that system.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).

Some pretty amazing educators have suggested alternatives that have proven to be better. But here in the US, we don't trust educators.

In some ways, Canada is amazingly conservative.  The general opinion is (or was) that the rote method works well enough, and is known to work well enough, to instill the basic knowledge required to be a functioning member of society, so why change it?

I do remember how miserable it was, how boring it was, and the fact that the entire system was based on humiliation.  On the other hand, I learned almost every non-technical thing I really do know before I moved to the states.

Yeah, but can you see the flaw? Especially when it comes to the non-technical things you know? I know you KNOW the flaw, because you have said it out loud to my face more than a few times. Whether you can see it in this context may be another question. That flaw is possibly the biggest failure of that system.

Oh, I do, I wasn't defending that system.  I had a fairly miserable childhood on account of it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

America: "If'n someone wants to ger all edermucaterd they should gots to pay fer it, ta beer al fancy pans"

ALL CIVILIZED NATIONS: "Education will be free for those who choose to pursue it, because it advances our country".

Norway spends half their day in school, and the other half laughing at the hicks (us).

One of my pet peeves is that we put our kids in school for 7 hours, and they get out about 1 hour of education.

The Canadian school system gets (or got, anyway), about 5 hours out of 7.  We learned a lot.  We were also miserable all the time (Canada does the rote-learning thing, pretty hardcore, or did in the 70s).

Some pretty amazing educators have suggested alternatives that have proven to be better. But here in the US, we don't trust educators.

In some ways, Canada is amazingly conservative.  The general opinion is (or was) that the rote method works well enough, and is known to work well enough, to instill the basic knowledge required to be a functioning member of society, so why change it?

I do remember how miserable it was, how boring it was, and the fact that the entire system was based on humiliation.  On the other hand, I learned almost every non-technical thing I really do know before I moved to the states.

Yeah, but can you see the flaw? Especially when it comes to the non-technical things you know? I know you KNOW the flaw, because you have said it out loud to my face more than a few times. Whether you can see it in this context may be another question. That flaw is possibly the biggest failure of that system.

Oh, I do, I wasn't defending that system.  I had a fairly miserable childhood on account of it.

Totally. It's not that you were defending the system, because you never have. It's the long-term thinking problems that come from that system, which you know about, that come from that system; namely the "I heard" problems that come from the appeal to authority that that system fosters so well.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Which leads to completely intelligent or even brilliant adults accepting as a given something they have heard from an authoritative source, even if the information does not hold up to critical analysis.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Totally. It's not that you were defending the system, because you never have. It's the long-term thinking problems that come from that system, which you know about, that come from that system; namely the "I heard" problems that come from the appeal to authority that that system fosters so well.

I was actually talking - in terms of non-technical knowledge - about writing, mathematics, and the like.

The flaw, to me, is that the system is based on humiliation.  There has to be a better way to impart knowledge, and the "conservative" mindset I mentioned is a combination of cowardice, laziness, and cruelty.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Which leads to completely intelligent or even brilliant adults accepting as a given something they have heard from an authoritative source, even if the information does not hold up to critical analysis.

Yes, that is the basic problem with rote learning.  Arithmetic is best learned by rote (as it's largely a matter of practice), but history and social science, not so much.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Totally. It's not that you were defending the system, because you never have. It's the long-term thinking problems that come from that system, which you know about, that come from that system; namely the "I heard" problems that come from the appeal to authority that that system fosters so well.

I was actually talking - in terms of non-technical knowledge - about writing, mathematics, and the like.

The flaw, to me, is that the system is based on humiliation.  There has to be a better way to impart knowledge, and the "conservative" mindset I mentioned is a combination of cowardice, laziness, and cruelty.

Oh, certainly. The progressive method is to reward people for learning, rather than the old "weeder" method of discouraging them from learning. Funny how basic the difference is.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I mean, the program I am in is still clearly based on the old method. But the old method is dying, it's bullshit, it's exclusionary as hell. It's not progressive, and by progressive I mean "able to grow and feed into new learning"

[East Coast Hustle]

Goddamn I hate Valentine's Day.

Said every single restaurant worker ever.

[Cain]

Yeah, I was thinking Valentine's on a Friday would be, uh, interesting.  So glad I'm out of the food business.

Glad to hear about the vision as well Roger, even if it does mean glasses and irritation.  It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative.

Today is the day I reacquaint myself with the hellhole that is Afghanistan, for fun and profit.  But mostly profit.