Shut me up, or go fuck yourself!

[monad]

Pæs: In an ideal world, perhaps everyone who made a decision for themselves would understand that the same decision might not be the best for other people. It doesn't seem to be the case that it is. I imagine even the Amish believe that everyone else is going to hell. That is a value judgement. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just that both interpretations are valid.

[President Television]

While we're at it: FUCK STEAMPUNK.

Steampunk = people who are nostalgia-blinded by the Victorian era yet are too scared to leave their computers behind.

Where cyberpunk at least has the grace to look to the future, steampunk looked at the future, wet itself, and decided to pretend it's over 100 years ago. Then they slapped brass gears and some fake wood panelling on an Ipad so they can pretend it's "alternate universe tech" because they just can't live without youtube. Yes, we really were better off with mass social and sexual repression, women being treated as second-class citizens unable to even vote, rampant Syphilis outbreaks, zero labor laws, and coal smoke blotting out the sun. Great choice.

Bonus points: there's a large overlap between the guys in my first paragraph and Steampunks. I'm pretty sure it's not a coincidence.

I wouldn't mind steampunk if it weren't so historically denialist. The Victorian era has great potential as a setting for horror and dark fantasy, but the steampunk kids love to sweep that shit under the rug in favour of a world where everyone's a lovable, happy-go-lucky street urchin or an eccentric inventor with an airship and goggles. I think Dishonoured's the only steampunk thing I've seen that had the stones not to romanticize its setting.

[Red]

I mean, I am not seeing people pining for those times in the way people do for the 50s.

...............

If they take anything away from the Victorian era, let it be design!

Then you are lucky, friend! I go to conventions and like to listen to people talk. It makes me feel sick inside when two guys of the brass gear and leather set are talking about how life was better when women couldn't vote and saying that women are best subservient. They then start bragging about how under their thumb "their women" are. I have also caught ones who are anti-vaccination, want to see business deregulated, and some that even think a return to slavery is a good idea. They weren't roleplaying: with the costumes off they were exactly the same. I saw a few "fashion only" steampunks get repulsed.

Steampunk is already getting "lifestylers". Sure, some are reasonable folks who are just trying to strip down to a more homespun lifestyle, but then you get the people who see Steampunk as "Victorian Modern" with all the ugliness that comes with the Victorian era. And then you get the nostalgia-goggled manifestos where they think that the lifestyle had back in the 1800's was more sustainable than our current one or it feels they are just doing it because they feel the future is empty plastic and prefer to look back at the past.

In the manifestos there is some talk of freedom of information, self-reliance and freedom to tinker/create, and Cyberpunk has those things as well, however, Cyberpunk doesn't nostalgia-goggle! Ok, so the "bleak future" of cyberpunk is why people went for the softer, fluffier imagined world of 100+ years ago, but the bleakness of cyberpunk was meant as a call to arms to get you to wake up and make this era better. It's message is not to withdraw but to connect, create, and fight for something better. I just don't see that drive in steampunk.

At least we can all agree that the designs can be quite nice. Art Nouveau can be quite lovely and I enjoy playing with the style sometimes, however, I generally prefer Art Deco. If it weren't for the Victorian era styling neither would have existed! 

I wouldn't mind steampunk if it weren't so historically denialist. The Victorian era has great potential as a setting for horror and dark fantasy, but the steampunk kids love to sweep that shit under the rug in favour of a world where everyone's a lovable, happy-go-lucky street urchin or an eccentric inventor with an airship and goggles. I think Dishonoured's the only steampunk thing I've seen that had the stones not to romanticize its setting.

Also, this. Yeah... it drives me CRAZY, too.

Does the same apply to those who yearn for the "simple life", communes, etc?

No, because they yearn for a simple life, and steampunks are just simple.

I meant more with regards to nostalgia in general.

There's an alternate version out here called "going country". Some people genuinely just want to go farm, and then there's the people who think life will get better just because they went and bought a farm. The later are the "going country" crowd.

If you really want to farm or manage wildlife, go ahead and move out there and get started. There's nothing wrong with having a genuine desire for these things. If you're "going country" for any other reason you're going to quickly find out that a smaller community doesn't tend to make things better. If anything, the prejudices and demand for being "just like them" skyrockets when you have a small number of people as they all know eachother and will want eachother's approval. All it takes is one deciding you're an "outsider" and popular opinion turns as everyone else will join in order to not get targeted. Even worse: if something happens like, oh, the outsider gets robbed or has a tree fall on his house NOBODY will help you. In a city at least you can find unbiased help!

I haven't been on a commune yet, but as communes generally seem to be choosy about who gets to move in, I bet most people wanting to join from sheer nostalgia for a "better" past get turned away. Anyone out here try a commune in the last decade or two? Some of them look very interesting and most of them (that I have seen, anyway) don't seem to be nostalgia-blinded.

[Salty]

I mean, I am not seeing people pining for those times in the way people do for the 50s.

...............

If they take anything away from the Victorian era, let it be design!

Then you are lucky, friend! I go to conventions and like to listen to people talk. It makes me feel sick inside when two guys of the brass gear and leather set are talking about how life was better when women couldn't vote and saying that women are best subservient. They then start bragging about how under their thumb "their women" are. I have also caught ones who are anti-vaccination, want to see business deregulated, and some that even think a return to slavery is a good idea. They weren't roleplaying: with the costumes off they were exactly the same. I saw a few "fashion only" steampunks get repulsed.

Steampunk is already getting "lifestylers". Sure, some are reasonable folks who are just trying to strip down to a more homespun lifestyle, but then you get the people who see Steampunk as "Victorian Modern" with all the ugliness that comes with the Victorian era. And then you get the nostalgia-goggled manifestos where they think that the lifestyle had back in the 1800's was more sustainable than our current one or it feels they are just doing it because they feel the future is empty plastic and prefer to look back at the past.

In the manifestos there is some talk of freedom of information, self-reliance and freedom to tinker/create, and Cyberpunk has those things as well, however, Cyberpunk doesn't nostalgia-goggle! Ok, so the "bleak future" of cyberpunk is why people went for the softer, fluffier imagined world of 100+ years ago, but the bleakness of cyberpunk was meant as a call to arms to get you to wake up and make this era better. It's message is not to withdraw but to connect, create, and fight for something better. I just don't see that drive in steampunk.

At least we can all agree that the designs can be quite nice. Art Nouveau can be quite lovely and I enjoy playing with the style sometimes, however, I generally prefer Art Deco. If it weren't for the Victorian era styling neither would have existed! 

...
...
...


What in the actual fuck? You know, there are some perks to being trapped in Alaska.

Thanks for opening my mind to yet another mode of incredibly stupid.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Shut me up, or go fuck yourself!™

Might catch on?

Go fuck yourself OR KILL ME.

[Cramulus]

I wouldn't mind steampunk if it weren't so historically denialist. The Victorian era has great potential as a setting for horror and dark fantasy, but the steampunk kids love to sweep that shit under the rug in favour of a world where everyone's a lovable, happy-go-lucky street urchin or an eccentric inventor with an airship and goggles.

You could say the same thing about [medieval] Fantasy, no?

Me, I don't think steampunk aesthetic is aimed at being historically accurate - more like, assembling a new look out of vintage parts. Reminds me of retro-pin up and burlesque in that sense. Not so much a fuzzy view of the past, but trying to hoist up an ideal that we all accept never actually existed.

For what it's worth, I've never met a steampunk who would actually want to live in Victorian times - usually they just want to wear the corsets.

People who fetishize that period are generally the fringe of the movement - Goths were like that too - you'd get a few people who were really really into Victoriana, but most just liked the look.

[Cramulus]

Dear Nostalgia assbags,

We don't fucking care how "hard" your life was, or how the "good old days" were better. Go fuck yourself hard for trying to convince me that two world wars, Jim Crow laws, and not having the internet connecting me to the rest or the world and having access to free information in a matter of seconds is better.

There is nothing amazing about reading porno by candle light, and small pox.
One last thing, the Beatles fucking sucked get over it.

Sincerely, 2014

Try to convince me that there are better platform games than Megaman 2. Try to convince me that the original zelda doesn't still beat the pants off most of the zelda games ever released. Try to convince me that Twilight was a better movie than Lost Boys. Tell me that chiptunes and 8-bit art style wasn't worth revisiting. Tell me these sweet lies, because I want to believe.

[Reginald Ret]

Pæs: In an ideal world, perhaps everyone who made a decision for themselves would understand that the same decision might not be the best for other people. It doesn't seem to be the case that it is. I imagine even the Amish believe that everyone else is going to hell. That is a value judgement. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just that both interpretations are valid.

Strawman Alert!
Paes had not mentioned the Amish.
Paes was attempting to have an actual discussion with you regarding the difference between people who prefer small close-knit communities that try to produce as much of their neccesities as possible without relying on Wallmart and people who are woman hating bigots that consider slavery a good thing.
For this I hate you.

[Salty]

You're not alone there.

[Pæs]

Pæs: In an ideal world, perhaps everyone who made a decision for themselves would understand that the same decision might not be the best for other people. It doesn't seem to be the case that it is. I imagine even the Amish believe that everyone else is going to hell. That is a value judgement. I am not trying to say you are wrong, just that both interpretations are valid.

Strawman Alert!
Paes had not mentioned the Amish.
Paes was attempting to have an actual discussion with you regarding the difference between people who prefer small close-knit communities that try to produce as much of their neccesities as possible without relying on Wallmart and people who are woman hating bigots that consider slavery a good thing.
For this I hate you.

I had given up on communicating in good faith by the time I read that, but yeah.