Swingers

[The Johnny]

I personally would like more an open marriage than swinging... swinging seems like meat barter, idk.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that not only are you completely right, but that however you figure out how to state it, I will be interesting in reading it. I think that you're right, there's a big difference, but the hard part is articulating it in a way that makes it clear that it ain't any kind of slut-shaming, but about treating people like people and not protrusions or holes.

You're thinking the same way I am.  Someone who likes to fuck likes to fuck, it's just that simple.  But the compulsion to swap partners seems to me to be an expression of absolute contempt for everyone involved, starting with and most especially said partner.  Even if they're into it.  Especially if they're into it.

Yep. Trade 'em out before you can start seeing them as a person.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm thinking the difference is this:

Casual sex isn't inherently bad.  Swinging is based on degradation.  It's the entire appeal.

And I have also noticed, while crawling through the seedier back alleys of the internet, that swingers are also sleazy-looking, without exception (in my limited experience).  While this is anecdotal, I think it goes to the "bright eyes and bushy tails" thing.  They aren't happy people or even decent people, and that affects the way they present themselves.

[POFP]

I don't know. I think a large part of the reason to keep re-evaluating is because the people and environments around us change, and sometimes things that worked well for us once stop working so well, but we may be oblivious to that if we aren't up for a little periodic re-evaluation.

Have you ever known an older person who was so set on ways of interacting with the world that worked perfectly for them 20 years ago, but just seem hopelessly rigid and blindly hierarchical and authoritarian now? Contrast that with the older people who seem to adapt quickly, and have an endless curiosity for new information and different perspectives. One is a dinosaur. The other is wise.

Good point. But I personally consider adaptability to be a result of an evaluation or set of evaluations, not a sign of constant re-evaluation. Adaptability is a mindset. I think adaptability can be measured by magnitude of successful changes, but I see it as something that you either have or don't have.

Tell me if that doesn't make sense, because I've had trouble trying to put that into words.

You seem to be saying that adaptability is an inborn trait that is not learnable. That is incorrect: inborn temperament tendencies can cause people to be more or less attracted to adaptability, but adaptability itself is learnable, just as temperament is mutable depending on environmental influences.

As I feared, I seemed to have been unclear when choosing my words.

I agree, that it can be learned. What I was trying to say was that it is something learned and kept. Adaptability is part of what's required for consistent re-evaluation. I guess, maybe, I misunderstood you at first, and made a distinction that wasn't really there. I'm very, very tired at the moment, and will come back to this tomorrow to clear it up, and refresh myself on my perspective I had at the time.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I personally would like more an open marriage than swinging... swinging seems like meat barter, idk.

THIS.

One of the worst experiences I've ever had with naked people was an early experiment in "hey, let's try that fucking people who aren't each other thing." The husband had a friend who does porn with his wife (they're both enthusiastic about the work and no one seems to be exploited), and while I was pretty in to the super hot lady hitting on me, not so much her husband. And there was this constant attitude from all sides not me that clearly I owed the husband some attention, since he was "being nice" and "sharing."

Needless to say this was a relatively short naked experience, although I do get to brag that a porn star complimented my feet now.

[The Johnny]

I personally would like more an open marriage than swinging... swinging seems like meat barter, idk.

THIS.

One of the worst experiences I've ever had with naked people was an early experiment in "hey, let's try that fucking people who aren't each other thing." The husband had a friend who does porn with his wife (they're both enthusiastic about the work and no one seems to be exploited), and while I was pretty in to the super hot lady hitting on me, not so much her husband. And there was this constant attitude from all sides not me that clearly I owed the husband some attention, since he was "being nice" and "sharing."

Needless to say this was a relatively short naked experience, although I do get to brag that a porn star complimented my feet now.

It reminds me of some nightclub experiences ive heard of... a guy and its friend, or a girl and her friend respectively function as a type of duo, or "wingman"... what allegedly happens is that one of the duo takes the prize and the other takes the bullet, so to speak... because the more attractive part of the respective duosare settled, the other halfs are kinda stuck in the situation, and might start nagging about hopping to another bar or ending the night eventually, so the wingman is encouraged to offer itself regardless of interest to keep the fleeing half of the other duo at bay.

With swingers? What is the warranty that in the trade both partners are as attractive? Maybe one of them provokes a lot of lust to one of them and the other partner is repulsed? Come on honey, take a bullet for the team just this once.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Curiously, I have also been verbally attacked by swingers simply for putting "although I am poly, I am not interested in swingers so please don't contact me if that is your MO" in my OKC profile.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Apparently, I was being judgmental, mean, and insulting by stating my own sexual boundaries.

[Meunster]

Is LuciferX a non-native English speaker? Because I don't want to shit on somebody for having a poor grasp of a second or third language, I just really really cannot understand what the fuck he's on about.

No, he just takes statements he can't understand as insults, or denigration, because he has ego issues. He also neglects to state his personal views and opinions as views or opinions, and instead, states them as universal facts. This is also because of ego issues.

After everyone takes the opposing side, he remembers to throw in the fact that his statements were, in-fact, views and opinions. He does this, without realizing it, because of the ego issues. You can't have an incorrect opinion or view, so his ego re-writes his paragraphs for him in E-Prime and with extra (Yet, twisted) pedantry.

How do I know this? Because I used to do the same shit. Maybe I still do the same shit. But admitting that you do it and seeing it in yourself and others is the first step to solving the problem. Believe it or not (This is at LuciferX) you don't need other people to help you with that problem, because I know you probably wouldn't let anyone try to fix that problem because you're so hateful towards the idea of someone who isn't you (Because everyone is lesser than you, right?) fixing you.

EDIT: Basically, this makes it seem as though Lucifer is disagreeing one moment, and switching directions the next. And when you're under attack when you have ego issues, you tend to kick your pedantry machine too hard, causing it to spit out the sludge you read by LuciferX half of the time. You start re-reading pieces of what you write, as you write it, and you throw different ideas into it in every cycle, causing loops of concept shittery. It's just what happens when your ego is desperate and you have a decent intelligence. Yeah, I said it, I have no doubt that he's intelligent. He just has some issues he needs to deal with before he'll start making sense.

That sounds very accurate, thanks for that insight into LuciferX.
Now I know why i kept going back and forth on liking him and being annoyed by him.
I also know why I sometimes confused the two of you. (In LuciferX's more lucid moments, I did not intend to insult)

No problem. And don't worry, I caught on to him because I saw aspects of myself in him. And introspection makes aspects like that much more clear when you're observing.

It probably sounds like I'm stroking my own ego, but I think, based on my own experiences, he might be quite a joy to talk to once he comes around. He has lots of potential. Anyone know how old he is? I would look at his profile, but I stopped trusting profile ages a long time ago.

Shit, I wasn't even aware that swingers and polys had a philosophy or dogma to justify their actions. Which sounds stupid now that I say that, seeing as how almost everyone has a philosophy or dogma to justify their actions. I guess their philosophies and dogmas remained hidden to me because I haven't met many, and I never really thought about it. I mean, I know people who fuck around a lot and they don't seem to care at all, but that's probably not what you're talking about. Swingers, on the other hand, I have never had the pleasure of meeting.

Swinging makes me a bit uncomfortable. But the closest thing to that that I can relate to is my idea of a perfect relationship:

Two people are partners, a single force against the entire world. They do whatever it takes to better themselves. If it means fucking someone outside of the relationship to get favors that benefit them both, so be it. But at the end of the night (Or in the morning, when the partner returns from fucking the other person), it's their partner they truly love.

But that's probably some fairytale shit. House of Cards (American version) projects unrealistic relationship goals for me 


More on-topic: Anyone who insists that my sexual orientation or preference is actually something other than what I've decided to express, is a total fuckwad. I don't care what the "science" of sexual predisposition says. My desires don't have to be fucking scientific. I will only be happy doing what I will. Anyone suggesting that I will be happy doing something else can suck a swinging bag of dicks.

Got a link?
One good pdf and I'm open to most ideologies. I want to expand mind.

Could you be more specific? Not sure exactly what you're referring to. I don't remember talking about anything that would be found in PDF form, unless they have the Script for House of Cards in PDF on Kickass.to or something.

This cat's words usually have the problem of deliberate obfuscation and noise, others are supposed to magically decipher the meaning of out-of-context metaphors or he gets wounded when he gets misinterpreted.

TLDR: its always a bad idea to use purple prose along with noise and obscurity to express your message when you are trying to debate or contribute to a conversation that isnt with yourself.

Excellent point you've brought up, and I think you explained it perfectly. That was another problem I had. I would turn the paragraphs of information that I wanted to express into a puzzle using out of context metaphors, etc. And if someone didn't understand me, I was hurt and put the responsibility on the reader. I would say this is also what he is doing, precisely.

the, they have a dogma to justify it.

[POFP]

the, they have a dogma to justify it.

Oh, I don't know of a PDF explaining the Swinger-type dogmatic justification. I was defining their "dogma" using what was stated in this thread: Their belief that everyone is actually polygamous.

Does that answer your question? Or am I missing something big/being fucking retarded? Because that happens sometimes.

[Doktor Howl]

Apparently, I was being judgmental, mean, and insulting by stating my own sexual boundaries.

Stop being a person and be a thing.  Damn, Nigel, do I have to explain everything?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Apparently, I was being judgmental, mean, and insulting by stating my own sexual boundaries.

Stop being a person and be a thing.  Damn, Nigel, do I have to explain everything?

[Freeky]

Apparently, I was being judgmental, mean, and insulting by stating my own sexual boundaries.

There you go, being Nigel again all over everything.

[Reginald Ret]

Apparently, I was being judgmental, mean, and insulting by stating my own sexual boundaries.

There you go, being Nigel again all over everything.

Not exactly.
Being Nigel is being perceived as judgemental, mean, and insulting without necessarily being on the same continent.

[Edited for typo.]

[minuspace]

Is LuciferX a non-native English speaker? Because I don't want to shit on somebody for having a poor grasp of a second or third language, I just really really cannot understand what the fuck he's on about.

No, he just takes statements he can't understand as insults, or denigration, because he has ego issues. He also neglects to state his personal views and opinions as views or opinions, and instead, states them as universal facts. This is also because of ego issues.

After everyone takes the opposing side, he remembers to throw in the fact that his statements were, in-fact, views and opinions. He does this, without realizing it, because of the ego issues. You can't have an incorrect opinion or view, so his ego re-writes his paragraphs for him in E-Prime and with extra (Yet, twisted) pedantry.

How do I know this? Because I used to do the same shit. Maybe I still do the same shit. But admitting that you do it and seeing it in yourself and others is the first step to solving the problem. Believe it or not (This is at LuciferX) you don't need other people to help you with that problem, because I know you probably wouldn't let anyone try to fix that problem because you're so hateful towards the idea of someone who isn't you (Because everyone is lesser than you, right?) fixing you.

EDIT: Basically, this makes it seem as though Lucifer is disagreeing one moment, and switching directions the next. And when you're under attack when you have ego issues, you tend to kick your pedantry machine too hard, causing it to spit out the sludge you read by LuciferX half of the time. You start re-reading pieces of what you write, as you write it, and you throw different ideas into it in every cycle, causing loops of concept shittery. It's just what happens when your ego is desperate and you have a decent intelligence. Yeah, I said it, I have no doubt that he's intelligent. He just has some issues he needs to deal with before he'll start making sense.

Whoa, that was pretty incisive.

Thanks for the insight.

Thanks. When you spend years breaking your own tendencies down into a science, you start to recognize the patterns in others as well.

When you have the background that I do, and the years of experience in putting others down (As a small child, until about the age of 14, I was an awful bully.), it gets hard to look at yourself on any realistic level without feeling terrible. I have no doubt that he was also bullied and became a bully out of spite. But, the moment you realize your shit stinks just like everyone else's, and you're not actually enlightened beyond any of these "mere mortals," life gets sooooo much easier. And people get so much easier to deal with.

Another thing I realized eventually:

You gotta love the shithead that you actually are, not the one you imagine yourself to be. You got some baggage? You got some dirt? Oh well. No one is perfect. Forgive yourself, and move on. Nothing is irredeemable. I watched my mom tell my child molesting grandfather, that she forgives him for everything he did to her, just before he died. Ignoring your flaws is not a valid method of redemption.

TLDR: If you were ever interested in the process by which a Pathological Narcissist fixes itself, read above.

So, I tried looking that up in the V'th DSM and found myself quite nonplussed, what's the problem again?