Author Topic: Mansplaining: Why?  (Read 13355 times)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2016, 08:57:44 pm »
Donald Trump has taught people that doubling down works in all scenarios.

He definitely doesn't let being wrong stop him from anything. :lol:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Nast

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2016, 06:14:30 am »
I also want to repeat, again, that I brought that my friend up AS AN EXAMPLE of a commonplace occurrence, and that the point of this thread is not to solve an interpersonal problem.

However, one thing I have gotten from this thread is that if I do broach the subject with any mansplainer, I better sugar-coat the everloving fuck out of it, or it will all be my fault because his feelings will hurt.
 :lulz:


Sorry about that, Nigel.  I went back and realized the OP didn't ask for solutions.  I was thinking of this one, further down the page:

Also, a related question: should I tell my friend that he does this? Should I just be "you're mansplaining, friend, FYI"?


Anyway, I'm not sure I have much else to offer, but I'll keep thinking about it.  Thanks for bringing it up.

I think that in some cases the mind goes to "I will find a simple mechanical solution and offer an answer" instead of thinking about the larger issues around an issue, because it's easier, it's tidy. It's like the reflex that leads to statements that start "Well, they should just..." in response to large, complex issues. It's the reflex that leads to conspiracy theories, because someone in charge of making bad stuff happen in a completely controllable way is a lot more comforting than the idea that bad things happen and nobody's in control. Sometimes, if there isn't actually a simple solvable problem being presented, people will go so far as to unconsciously invent one, so as to be able to offer a simple solution and avoid thinking about the larger, more uncomfortable problem.

I think that's a huge part of what happened in this thread.

The people who are saying "We're your friends, you should give us the benefit of the doubt" are missing the point that this is about behavior, not personhood. Being my friend doesn't mean the behavior didn't happen. Being well-intentioned doesn't matter; what matters is being willing to examine the behavior, and the assumptions behind the behavior, and change it if appropriate. If you refuse to acknowledge that the behavior is a problem because you're not "like that", then you will continue doing it. Because almost nobody thinks of themselves as being "like that". Most people don't think they're racist, but they are. Most people don't think they're sexist, but they are. I'm sexist. It's built into the fabric of the culture that I was raised in. I consistently, reflexively expect Alty to open the door or carry something heavy for me, even though I'm stronger than he is.

We're all sexist, and the US in particular is a remarkably sexist nation. Special pleading doesn't change that. Being a feminist doesn't change it, either. The only thing that changes it is being willing to hear criticism and look at areas of our own behavior that we can consciously change, even when it's uncomfortable and makes us feel defensive. Being able to have an actual dialogue about it, without dumbing it down to pat individual-level "solutions", is a starting point.

Thank you, Nigel, for expounding on this. I'll definitely be thinking about this and trying to keep it in mind. I'll also try to be more careful in reading the context/intent of posts so as to avoid future putting-of-foot-into-mouth.
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2016, 06:28:02 am »
Thanks, Nast.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Emo Howard

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2016, 05:05:00 pm »
I work with a guy (in an 8'X12' kiosk) who practices what may be the ultimate form of mansplaining: NARRATION. This is not the mere telling me of things that he should know I already know. He actually says out loud the things that are happening as they happen... WHILE I AM TRYING TO CONCENTRATE ON MAKING THE THINGS HAPPEN.

Example:

There's a guy at the window who wants $8 on pump 4. I repeat " Eight on pump four?" He says "yes", hands me a 20,  and reaches for the number pad while I am punching in 8 on 4 and quickly jab at the "Enter Alternate ID" button before the customer has a chance to put in his number to get his discount, because I have to do that before he starts putting in his number or else he has to do it again. I grab the 20 out of the drawer, punch it into the register, and hand him back two fives and two ones. The screen pops up a menu telling me he has up to 40 cents he can use as discount on his gas. I tell him this, and ask him if he wants to use any of it now or save it for later. He tells me he wants to use all of it, so I punch that in and say "Allright, you're all set. Thanks a lot!"

My co-worker is standing behind me the whole time saying " Yep, this guy's not gonna tell you he wants to put in his ID number, he's just going to start punching it in. Another 20? You might have enough to make a drop, now." (a "drop" is a bag of 25 $20 bills which is dropped into the safe) "You got alotta ones and fives in your drawer right now, this will help you out a little, there." (which is why I gave him two fives instead of a ten) "It's getting a little full. You got four bundles of ones under your drawer" (A bundle is 20 bills wrapped with some kind of paper strip. I put them there.) "and two clips of fives and probably enough for another clip there in your drawer." (A clip is 10 bills clipped with a paperclip. Again, I put them there.) "He's going to use all of that on $8 worth of gas? Why doesn't he save it for when he's getting a full tank? That car could hold 12 gallons, easy."

This isn't someone more experienced than I who would reasonably think that he's training me. I started on this job about two weeks before he did, and helped train him. I really don't think he's trying to tell me how to do my job, or anything. He just can't stop talking. He's saying out loud the words that are going through my head because they are the words that would be going through his head if he were standing where I am standing.

I think that, at least in some cases, mansplaining may be the result of guys trying to avoid awkward silence, or in this case, perfectly reasonable silence, which may have been awkward for him since he just didn't have a clearly defined role to play at the time. He was there mainly to take out trash, and cover me for lunch and breaks and for when I had to run to the store to reset the change bucket. This sometimes momentarily leaves us with two people, and only enough work for one, which I guess is uncomfortable for some people.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 06:12:42 pm by Emo Howard »

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2016, 04:18:44 am »
You know, in your situation I might actually kill him.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2016, 05:45:20 am »
alright, you want me to examine my prejudices? fine. I do that most days anyway working in mental health, but sure. I'm sorry for digging in, it was stupid. You dont wnat ot be given unasked for personal advice, fine i'm sorry and i'll try not to let it happen again

But one thing i would say is that, as a man i am tired of other people telling me how i feel. I'm tired of people picking apart my motivations to make me fit their view of social justice. I was excited when i first looked at this thread because i thought you might actually want a guys opinion on what makes a man mansplain, but then you shat all over my first point because you didnt like it (you didn't refute any of the things i said, you just ridiculed it) and seemed to only want a very specific response to the OP and when you didnt get it form every single person posting you threw a shit fit. I was all ready to open up a bit, and let some stuff out and when you did that i got defensive and the last thing i wanted was to be vulnerable in front of someone who's just gonna kick me in the metaphorical groin as soon as I do. but whatever, take from that what you will. Or kill me.
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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2016, 06:10:28 am »
Whoa. Is that not how people talk? You give your bullshit to me i mention relevant information i kinda know, you mention something then it rolls from there.
Poe's law ;)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2016, 03:50:27 am »
alright, you want me to examine my prejudices? fine. I do that most days anyway working in mental health, but sure. I'm sorry for digging in, it was stupid. You dont wnat ot be given unasked for personal advice, fine i'm sorry and i'll try not to let it happen again

But one thing i would say is that, as a man i am tired of other people telling me how i feel. I'm tired of people picking apart my motivations to make me fit their view of social justice. I was excited when i first looked at this thread because i thought you might actually want a guys opinion on what makes a man mansplain, but then you shat all over my first point because you didnt like it (you didn't refute any of the things i said, you just ridiculed it) and seemed to only want a very specific response to the OP and when you didnt get it form every single person posting you threw a shit fit. I was all ready to open up a bit, and let some stuff out and when you did that i got defensive and the last thing i wanted was to be vulnerable in front of someone who's just gonna kick me in the metaphorical groin as soon as I do. but whatever, take from that what you will. Or kill me.

That's not actually what happened.. You wanna try reading the OP and actually paying attention this time, instead of assuming you already know what it's about?

And if you want to make a thread that's about how sick you are of being oppressed as a man, go for it.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2016, 04:54:57 am »


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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2016, 06:10:31 am »
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


PoFP

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2016, 08:17:34 pm »
Not sure why I didn't see this thread before. This is definitely the first time I've heard this phenomenon defined by the term "Mansplaining." I assumed that term was created by the SJWs of Tumblr. Or at least stolen and ruined by them. Any word created by melding a common verb with "man" or "woman" usually tends to be blatantly sexist or based on victimhood absurdities. Not saying that is the case in this word. Just a generalization.

Anyways, I am bad for this. Really bad. But it's mostly due to an urge to be helpful and a non-stop, ever-changing train of thought. Most of the time, regardless of whether someone asked about information, if something pops into my head that's related, I'll say it out loud and then try to connect it to not look like a bumbling baboon. This usually fails quite badly, and I'm met with a barrage of blank looks.

Well, that's worst case scenario, which happens more than I'd like it to, but less often than I make it sound. I guess you could say the most common phenomenon is me making an accurate judgment on how much someone knows on a subject, or deciding whether their information on a subject could lead them to cause problems for themselves, and then inserting my view as a light suggestion or minor insight through conversation. It's only when I'm hyper that I'll just blurt shit out. That requires stimulation. When that happens, my train of thought becomes (I think Roger or Dok mentioned this) disjointed anyways.

Point is, I think this is more connected to ADHD symptoms. That makes me question my experiences' relevance to the current conversation, but it also makes me question whether or not the higher prevalence of similar ADHD symptoms in men correlates to the higher prevalence of this phenomenon in men. And now I'm questioning the validity of that statement due to under+over-diagnosis of ADHD.

I don't know. If something catches my interest, I like to throw my two cents in just in case it helps, and a lot because I can hardly help myself. I can hyper-focus on things that stimulate me at times and find it hard to switch gears until I've said everything I've ever wanted to say on the subject. I know this can be annoying for some people, and I accept that, so I generally don't mind if people just pretend to hear me talk until I'm done.
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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #103 on: March 21, 2016, 02:21:39 am »
No one really disabused me of the notion that everything I have to say is relevant and interesting while I was growing up. Now I have to pick apart bad habits in my shitty, calcified adult brain.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Mansplaining: Why?
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2016, 10:32:30 pm »
The critical element of mansplaining (the reason the tongue-in-cheek name stuck is because every woman has experienced it and it's so hilariously dead-on, if you've ever been on the receiving end) is the assumption, from out of the blue, that the person being explained to has no pre-existing knowledge of the subject even when it can reasonably be assumed that they know quite a bit; sort of like my friend explaining my cameras to me. MY cameras. Which I own, and use.

My favorite recent example, brought to my attention by the illustrious Alty, was a guy in line to see Deadpool explaining Deadpool's history to Gail Simone as she was also in line to see the movie. Because she is a lady, and this guy assumes that a lady in line to see Deadpool must not know anything about the character because that makes perfect sense. :?

Alty had to explain who Gail Simone was, because I am not a comics person, and then I LOLed and LOLed.

So an important element that I would love to get at is not only where the urge to share your knowledge comes from, but also from whence arises the assumption that the person on the receiving end, usually a woman, has no knowledge themselves.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”