Author Topic: Raising the next generation: PD style  (Read 936 times)

Junkenstein

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Raising the next generation: PD style
« on: December 03, 2016, 07:20:05 pm »
After watching countless peers fuck up being a parent, I am now being given more useless unsolicited advice than I can shake a shitty cloth at. So I thought, "there's a few people I know that actually have half a fucking clue at how not to be a utterly useless twat of a parent." Hells, some of you even seem quite competent.

Offhand, I know a few of you have spawned and from your posts, I'd actually be interested in hearing any and all advice from. I won't name names for privacys sake, but if you think this may mean you, it probably does. I suspect many things may not be being done in a dull fashion. I'd be disappointed if they were. I guess there's probably a bit to discuss in regards to second/third generation Discordia in general, if it even survives that far. If we're even still bothering to use the term anymore.

I suppose this will also include likely plans which may and may not get met. I think there may be a bit of mileage in the various things you all intend to pass on in some degree or another too. I'm going to be damn sure mine questions every damn thing it's told for example. They'll probably have a bit of a mouth on them too if my general parlance is anything to fucking go by. They shall also have an acute understanding of the strange times, which by the time I explain it, shall no doubt be even stranger.

It's also worth noting that this voice to text thing is picking up pretty much everything now. This is just one of countless technologies and advancements that didn't even exist when I was born. They're living in the future and they'll be grateful for it too.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 07:22:08 pm by Junkenstein »
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 07:28:18 pm »
My #1 piece of advice is to talk to the offspring like people. Don't worry too much about dumbing it down for the wee little brain; they are much much smarter than most people give them credit for, and will let you know if they don't understand. Kids are geniuses at picking up vocabulary from context, so keep it heady and they will quickly keep pace with you.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Salty

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2016, 07:55:00 pm »
In no particular order:

-It's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking you're a shitty parent. Of course, you might be. But if you are, would you really care enough to ask yourself such questions. Plus, you see other kids doing "better" or "more" than your kid, as well as the other way around. A good general rule is to do better than your parents did. That's really the only metric for progress you can truly depend on. Don't make their mistakes, your kids try not to make your mistakes.

-I think severity is only necessary when they are very young, and talking through things with them at any age is better than aggression. I have done and experienced both, I think reason rules more often than not with most people. Children especially since they aren't fully inundated with shitty perspective like all us adults. But severity IS very useful at young ages and if done correctly will last into the rest of their lives. So, end up with this deeply rooted fear of making you angry. I don't know if that's "healthy". I do know kids absolutely know when an adult lacks a spine and will not only take advantage of it, but will also lose respect for those adults as well.

-The only thing your kids care about is that you care about them. Money, status, activities, toys, books, movies, tablets, etc. This is all well and good, but they won't care if you care about them and show it every day. It's easy to see what you're doing wrong, what you do right is almost invisible and it should be. Kids should take it for granted that their parents care more about them than anything else. My son doesn't care if I miss his bday party, or don't celebrate Christmas, or shit like that because he knows I give a damn. Maybe that'll change as he becomes a teen, but I doubt it.

-Touch is very, very important and solves a lot of problems. When my son acts up at school, much more rare these days, I want to tell his teachers to just put a hand on him to get his attention. Make sure he looks at your eyes, and tell him to get his shit together. Sometimes, if spanking accomplished nothing, I would call him or his brother over severely, tell them I love them and give them a hug, and POOF problem disappears.

-I have been making fantastical claims to my son since he was old enough to understand claims of any kind. "We are actually lizard people and we wear these skins to blend in." "Cats are made of jellybeans." "I am going to buy 30,000lbs of candy and make an army of cats." Shit like that. Now he doesn't believe a word I say and recognizes my joking voice. He is skeptical AF.

-The worst possible punishment a toddler can face is being put in one spot and not allowed to move. A chair works real well, so does a small rug. They hate so much.
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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2016, 08:12:01 pm »
I agree about the touch. Hold and hug and smooch and pat your offspring. There's this stereotype that teenagers hate it, but that's a big fat lie; they are just going through a weird time and they are needier than ever before, so you just sort of have to be persistently affectionate as much as they will let you.

Small kids mostly just need you to love them and be endlessly, insanely patient with their madness. They aren't really lucid at all until they hit 7-ish, and I don't think they're fully lucid until puberty-ish, so it's kind of like babysitting someone on a whole lot of acid. Someone who is on acid and craps their pants.

Always treat them the way you want them to grow up to treat others. My kids argue with me when they have a legitimate disagreement, but other than a patch when they were each around nine, they don't whine or mope about being asked to do things. They say "OK Mom!" and then half the time they don't and I have to ask them again, which I do cheerfully and politely. This battle of polite cheer rages eternal, but it's better than the shitty alternative of yelling, guilting, or nagging, and the upshot is that the crotchfruit are generally cheerfully polite both when making and receiving requests because that's all they've ever known. During The Troubles, when they were nine, they got really snotty and bitchy and snipey, because that's how they see kids behaving on TV. I asked them not to talk to me like that because it is rude and it hurts my feelings, and pointed out that I don't talk to them like that, and they stopped. The end. It went exactly the same way with all three of them.


I dunno, man. At one point I really wanted to write a Discordian parenting book, but then I realized that all my advice kind of boils down to "treat them like the people you hope they will be".
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Junkenstein

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2016, 10:03:33 pm »
Thanks both you, it's appreciated.

One thing is particularly troubling for me is use of the stick. I suspect my upbringing had a little too much of that and I'm probably more wary of it than I should be.

On the plus side insomnia is finally useful for something.
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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 11:39:28 pm »
I'm pretty staunchly against spanking. I spanked my kids when they were little and now, after a lot more experience and pretty extensive human development education in both psychology and biology, I think that the short-term gain (acquiescence based in fear) is not worth the damage it can do to trust and development. There are many other tools in a parent's toolkit that don't have the same negative developmental potential, and children who are raised with discipline other than corporal tend to have the best developmental and social outcomes.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 11:47:51 pm »
1.  They aren't your property, they're people.  This is an amazingly hard thing for some people to grasp.
2.  They aren't mini-you.  Their goals and amusements will probably be different than yours.
3.  Spanking is apparently less than worthless.  I don't know if that's true, but I can tell you it is completely ineffective and counterproductive past age 5.
4.  "Because I said so" is also counterproductive.  Kids are inquisitive, and this should be encouraged, not shut down.
5.  Children are amazing self-destruct devices.  You don't beat Darwin by having kids, you beat Darwin when you have grandchildren.  Children of any age will attack light sockets, bottles of bleach, and snakes the moment you turn your back. 
6.  Physical contact is absolutely crucial, especially at the infant/toddler stage.

Most importantly:

7.  Your children are your new focus/hobby/etc.  The best way to screw a kid up is to neglect him/her.
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Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2016, 08:12:54 pm »
Everything thus far agrees with my experience.

1) Your children will get hurt. Learn basic first aid, have the pediatrician's number saved in your phone and don't be embarrassed to call about the occasional dumb shit. You'll learn the basic checklist for skin infections and concussions. Don't panic when they get hurt (they pick up on your panic and it makes their experience of pain worse) and congratulate them for taking it like a boss even if they are not taking it like a boss.

2) No topic is inappropriate for children, it's all about how you talk about it. At two and a half my daughter asked me about birth control because we were reading the parent-to-be book I got for #2. So I talked with her about how parents don't always want a million kids or kids too close together, and that's how you make sure you don't have babies before you want it, and yes I tried this thing and this other thing. She doesn't remember the conversation, of course, but it was perfectly normal and not squicky and because we've been that way forever it's not something she's going to be blindsided by.

3) Don't read books you hate. This is a personal one, I've seen folks go the other way with it but it worked for me. My viewpoint is that reading is supposed to be an enjoyable activity, so if my kids see me groaning through a book they're going to think reading is a chore you do for other people. Instead we got really into some of the Dr. Seuss books and other beginners stuff, and they saw me smiling and giggling throughout. Fox in Socks is still one of my favorite books, because you will absolutely fuck up reading it and toddlers love watching adults fuck up.

4) Kids are never too young for culture! Babies belong in museums. Smith College has my favorite Madonna and Child ever, it's a sculpture where Mary's got her hip stuck out and the baby resting on it like an actual human mother and baby would pose, unlike the usual floating baby nonsense you see. We'd go visit that and chatter about it, at first just me babbling at the little baby lumps and later getting feedback from the toddler. Also dinosaurs. A word of caution on this one: never take more babies to the museum than you have hands.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 11:42:23 pm by Q. G. Pennyworth »
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Junkenstein

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2016, 11:04:50 pm »
1.  They aren't your property, they're people.  This is an amazingly hard thing for some people to grasp.

-I know a few that treat theirs like this. It's very odd and I can't see it doing much other than building resentment.

2.  They aren't mini-you.  Their goals and amusements will probably be different than yours.

-worth remembering. I've planned out teaching comedy from the 3 stooges to sadowitz though. This feels like mandatory education to me.

3.  Spanking is apparently less than worthless.  I don't know if that's true, but I can tell you it is completely ineffective and counterproductive past age 5.

-anecdotal evidence backs this up. Basically by around 5 you've either raised a small person or a total fucking nightmare.

4.  "Because I said so" is also counterproductive.  Kids are inquisitive, and this should be encouraged, not shut down.

-noted. Quite looking forward to that point, really.

5.  Children are amazing self-destruct devices.  You don't beat Darwin by having kids, you beat Darwin when you have grandchildren.  Children of any age will attack light sockets, bottles of bleach, and snakes the moment you turn your back. 

-duly noted. Investing in giant protective balls for when I leave the room.half joking, I'm still in the acting like a damn meerecat stage.

6.  Physical contact is absolutely crucial, especially at the infant/toddler stage.

Most importantly:

7.  Your children are your new focus/hobby/etc.  The best way to screw a kid up is to neglect him/her.

-again, tons of anecdotal evidence on the importance of the last two. Will try and not fuck that up.
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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2016, 11:57:10 pm »
A word of caution on this one: never take more babies to the museum than you have hands.

Quote
never take more babies to the museum than you have hands.

Quote
never take more babies to the museum than you have hands.

Some of the best generally-applicable parenting advice ever.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Junkenstein

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2016, 11:31:10 pm »
When the time is right, I vow to look the small one dead in the eye and ask:

"Do you want to eat an amazing number of oranges?"
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 02:25:05 am »
Everything thus far agrees with my experience.

1) Your children will get hurt. Learn basic first aid, have the pediatrician's number saved in your phone and don't be embarrassed to call about the occasional dumb shit. You'll learn the basic checklist for skin infections and concussions. Don't panic when they get hurt (they pick up on your panic and it makes their experience of pain worse) and congratulate them for taking it like a boss even if they are not taking it like a boss.

- I'm somewhat ahead of the game in first aid, but a kid specific thing would probably be smart. Good call. Also worth remembering the last part, making a conscious effort to so that now.

2) No topic is inappropriate for children, it's all about how you talk about it. At two and a half my daughter asked me about birth control because we were reading the parent-to-be book I got for #2. So I talked with her about how parents don't always want a million kids or kids too close together, and that's how you make sure you don't have babies before you want it, and yes I tried this thing and this other thing. She doesn't remember the conversation, of course, but it was perfectly normal and not squicky and because we've been that way forever it's not something she's going to be blindsided by.

- I see this as a possibly the best thing about this. There's a shitload to learn and restricting that just seems pointless.

3) Don't read books you hate. This is a personal one, I've seen folks go the other way with it but it worked for me. My viewpoint is that reading is supposed to be an enjoyable activity, so if my kids see me groaning through a book they're going to think reading is a chore you do for other people. Instead we got really into some of the Dr. Seuss books and other beginners stuff, and they saw me smiling and giggling throughout. Fox in Socks is still one of my favorite books, because you will absolutely fuck up reading it and toddlers love watching adults fuck up.

-I've got a solid reading list for later life but any other suggestions on starter books happily received.

4) Kids are never too young for culture! Babies belong in museums. Smith College has my favorite Madonna and Child ever, it's a sculpture where Mary's got her hip stuck out and the baby resting on it like an actual human mother and baby would pose, unlike the usual floating baby nonsense you see. We'd go visit that and chatter about it, at first just me babbling at the little baby lumps and later getting feedback from the toddler. Also dinosaurs. A word of caution on this one: never take more babies to the museum than you have hands.

Noted again. Will try damn hard to expose them to more than I was. Hands advice noted, as is Nigel's emphasis. Will try and prevent the destruction of too much culture.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Q. G. Pennyworth

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 12:52:41 pm »
Of the Dr Seuss books, my favorites are Fox in Socks, Oh the Thinks You Can Think, Because a Little Bug Went Ka-choo, I Wish That I Had Duck Feet, And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street, Mr. Brown Can Moo, One Fish Two Fish, I Am NOT Going To Get Up Today, Marvin K Mooney Will You Please Go Now, and Green Eggs and Ham.

Where the Wild Things Are is important as tantrum allegory. The Paperbag Princess is one of my favorite fairy tale undermining books, along with Jane and the Dragon. If you can find a copy of The Monster At The End Of This Book, it's probably the best example of fourth wall breaking and overcoming anxiety out there, my brother loved it growing up.

As a general rule, I tried to avoid book adaptations of other media while they were at the picture book stage, once they hit school they're going to find out about Minecraft books one way or another.
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Vanadium Gryllz

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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 01:21:55 pm »
Probably a book for a few years later, but The Phantom Tollbooth was one of my favourites as a child.
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Re: Raising the next generation: PD style
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 11:49:17 pm »
There's a book out there, "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Lessons" or some such.

My mom used it and I had a reading level that rocketed past my grade level, and my mom subsequently used it to teach a half-dozen struggling neighborhood kids to read. So I can vouch for that.