Author Topic: Virtue Signalling  (Read 2760 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2017, 03:37:37 pm »
It's the reason exploitation and atrocities have happened over and over again. People won't realise they need each other, until things get really bad, and only then will they look back and realise that they had the opportunity to head this off at the pass.

There are 13 states writing laws to re-illegalize Gay marriage...Anticipating a friendly supreme court, given that Trump's likely nominee is a guy who thinks homosexuality should carry the same criminal penalties as pedophilia.

The left's response:  bicker about whether the 3 million woman march was trans-exclusive because they wore pink hats in mockery of something Trump said.

There is no fucking hope.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
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 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
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Faust

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2017, 04:16:31 pm »
 :| At least the band on the Titanic could agree amongst themselves what song to play.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2017, 04:23:31 pm »
:| At least the band on the Titanic could agree amongst themselves what song to play.

"But Janet Mock spoke."

"ONLY ONE TRANS-SPEAKER?  3 MILLION SHITLORD MARCH, YOU MEAN!"
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2017, 09:25:03 pm »
The intersectionality problem is really getting me bummed out.  I'm trying to figure my way through it.  I'm sure I've walked down a road hundreds have already been down, but I feel a need to do it.

The tough part is making statements that neither deny or belittle the marginalized, while neither demonizing nor apologizing for the "un-woke".

I'm suspecting I need to use math/E-Prime rules.

Yep. It's a bit of a struggle for me when people complain about the how the genitalia symbolism in the women's marches makes them feel excluded, because of course, they symbolize the anatomical differences that have been used as the basis for oppressing female women for millennia. However, I am really striving to keep in mind that as a member of the majority, in this case a female woman, my job is not to "yes but" or "actually" them, but to listen, acknowledge that I have heard, and ask if there is anything I can do to make them feel included. At most, it is my place to explain why female reproductive organs are an important symbol to many people, but I am also, when doing so, trying to express that they should absolutely bring symbols and expressions of their own femininity to the movement, and that in my opinion, it is important for the movement to embrace them.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2017, 09:27:13 pm »
Tangentially related side-note; asking fedoras who refer to women as "females" whether they are intentionally being trans-exclusive yields hilarious results.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


MithridatesXXIII

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2017, 09:34:56 pm »
Like what?

The Invisible Man

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2017, 11:45:38 pm »
The intersectionality problem is really getting me bummed out.  I'm trying to figure my way through it.  I'm sure I've walked down a road hundreds have already been down, but I feel a need to do it.

The tough part is making statements that neither deny or belittle the marginalized, while neither demonizing nor apologizing for the "un-woke".

I'm suspecting I need to use math/E-Prime rules.

Yep. It's a bit of a struggle for me when people complain about the how the genitalia symbolism in the women's marches makes them feel excluded, because of course, they symbolize the anatomical differences that have been used as the basis for oppressing female women for millennia. However, I am really striving to keep in mind that as a member of the majority, in this case a female woman, my job is not to "yes but" or "actually" them, but to listen, acknowledge that I have heard, and ask if there is anything I can do to make them feel included. At most, it is my place to explain why female reproductive organs are an important symbol to many people, but I am also, when doing so, trying to express that they should absolutely bring symbols and expressions of their own femininity to the movement, and that in my opinion, it is important for the movement to embrace them.

I'm trying to be good and trying very hard to remember I am speaking to people who are very genuinely marginalized by a good chunk of society, but some make it very tough to not go straight to trolling. The discussion gets very Tumblr, very fast.

I got accused of mansplaining this morning... I dunno, maybe I was. I genuinely didn't mean to, and don't really think I was. But, people never think they are, so. I'll assume I was. But it makes conversation difficult when that accusation can be tossed at me at any point. That was when I decided to try listening more and talking less... although online it's hard to tell when someone is listening, unless they respond. I'm trying.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2017, 12:58:51 am »
Like what?

Like frothing temper tantrums. You gotta try it.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Dildo Argentino

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2017, 05:25:45 am »
Anyone who stops running from goons to get help from someone wearing one of those safety pins is going to wish they'd kept running.

Hello again! Epic truth. Thank you. I wonder why it is so, but it seems to be the case: people whose virtue signalling include a hot stream of the original liberal values (tolerance, conviviality, compassion, solidarity, freedom of thought) are in fact not all that big on helping people in actual need.
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

Dildo Argentino

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2017, 05:39:04 am »
Semaphores of Spot-on Satire

That's my next band! :D
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Dildo Argentino

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2017, 05:41:20 am »
There's a related term which I think applies here, if I get your meaning. Tribal signaling. Undoubtedly, this can occur in the same space as virtue signaling.

They are essentially the same, no? Given that people in a tribe tend to agree on what constitutes virtue... of course with the recent developments in much more complicated social arrangements, it goes all fractal and multilevel and feedback loops.... maan.

(Zizek videos are a definite virtue signal with me.)
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

Dildo Argentino

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2017, 05:56:06 am »
There is no fucking hope.

I beg to differ. There isn't much hope, but there is some.
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

Dildo Argentino

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2017, 06:01:45 am »
That's an excellent thread. Gimme another shot, I been changed. Short thrift and everything, but pls.

So are the middle classes virtue signalling more simply because they signal more in general (they have disproportionate access to, and leisure to use, the media and the Internet), or is their higher level of signalling their virtuousness also a symptom of some deep, perhaps unconscious but still present unease that seeps through the solid denial of privilege and complicity in maintaining the status quo?
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MithridatesXXIII

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2017, 11:22:45 am »
Tribal signaling and virtue signaling fulfill a variety of psychological needs. It's not clear that any given class exhibits it more than any other. What is certain is that there are more channels and venues for it to occur in. What is less certain is viewing it through the lense of privilege, which seems to be a stretch. Matters of privilege claiming or denying, rather make more sense through the lense of signaling.

As for them being the same, I'd say no. One is a better means to declare affiliation, status, class attributes. One is a better means to describe a system of values and principles, mode of thought, ethos, etc. This becomes blurry, but each has their value.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 11:35:59 am by MithridatesXXIII »

MithridatesXXIII

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Re: Virtue Signalling
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2017, 11:43:36 am »
I'm going to have to go with no hope, as the situation stands. We have no reliable and ethical means to correct stupidity, lack of empathy, lack of theory of mind/understanding of personhood of others, to name a few. Humankind is set for doom until at least this is dealt with.