Author Topic: ITT I log the moments when I realize how bigoted my modern liberal beliefs are.  (Read 868 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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First. This is not a "hey look how egalitarian I am" thread. I will not be expounding self-righteously on these points. It isn't here to show off what I know and you don't, or to ask for someone to give me kudos. It's just here because I often struggle with not understanding why some people say some things, but don't ask about them because it seems like asking exposes the bigotry in a negative way. I imagine other people may have similar experiences. If not, well, sorry intrude, I guess? idk.

This thread is a record of the (likely many) instances where I will come to have an actual understanding of why my supposedly selfless, progressive beliefs are in fact resting on a frame of racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, or otherwise bigoted bullshit.


2017/01/26, 7:32 PM: I realize (by having it explained to me) why it is not a contradiction to expect, demand, and claim physical and emotional equality for women and still be more offended/enraged by violence against women than by violence against men. I'm annoyed and a little ashamed at my failure to arrive at this realization without having to ask someone.
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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This is cool as fuck, Vex!
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


tyrannosaurus vex

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This is cool as fuck, Vex!
Thanks! But, like I said, I only hope to maintain a record and inspire other people who might want to be inspired, not preach, and not to put it on someone else to figure out my shit for me or absolve me of my white guilt. This thread will probably die and be bumped fairly often.
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I support you in this.  I've been going through a lot of this sort of stuff, as well.  Mine are mostly class and race based, the main problem is getting past the "of course I'm not ____ist!" barrier.

By the way: Nigel, you've helped a lot with this sort of stuff.  Just wanted to give you some props.

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I support you in this.  I've been going through a lot of this sort of stuff, as well.  Mine are mostly class and race based, the main problem is getting past the "of course I'm not ____ist!" barrier.

By the way: Nigel, you've helped a lot with this sort of stuff.  Just wanted to give you some props.

2nd!

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Thanks, guys!  :oops: I'm happy to have been helpful. I've gotten a shit ton of growth out of discussions we've had here over the years.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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2017/01/26, 7:32 PM: I realize (by having it explained to me) why it is not a contradiction to expect, demand, and claim physical and emotional equality for women and still be more offended/enraged by violence against women than by violence against men. I'm annoyed and a little ashamed at my failure to arrive at this realization without having to ask someone.

I am really interested to hear what got you there, because this is something that's still not clear in my head. Outside of the "equal force only works with equally matched opponents, so go light on the 90lbs soaking wet ones" thing.
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tyrannosaurus vex

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2017/01/26, 7:32 PM: I realize (by having it explained to me) why it is not a contradiction to expect, demand, and claim physical and emotional equality for women and still be more offended/enraged by violence against women than by violence against men. I'm annoyed and a little ashamed at my failure to arrive at this realization without having to ask someone.

I am really interested to hear what got you there, because this is something that's still not clear in my head. Outside of the "equal force only works with equally matched opponents, so go light on the 90lbs soaking wet ones" thing.

When talking about a traditionally marginalized or oppressed demographic, step one is to realize the marginalization and oppression are without merit and based in whatever fucked up assumptions or traditions gave rise to them.

Step two is to realize that continued abuse of that marginalized demographic is not only wrong in the universal "don't abuse people" sense, but especially in the "these people have been through enough as it is" sense.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 11:01:12 pm by V3X »
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This is a great thread, Vex, and I always love that equality/equity picture


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tyrannosaurus vex

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get the fuck out of my thread please.
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MMIX

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http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058

That is actually a quite interesting piece. However, you might want to get it the hell out of V3X's thread. Read the OP; read the thread title; use those readings to guide your behaviour; just a suggestion.

ALSO You said you have OCD;  do you have other issues that make it hard for you to communicate?
"Just because the village idiots have spoken doesn't mean we have to destroy the village"

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Can I join? When my previous marriage was over after 14 years, I spent weeks trying to reckon up, financially, the last several years, claiming that I had put more into the marriage, so I was entitled to more than half of the little that was left. Then one day I realised I was being a total asshole, that 14 years, 3 kids of living together is not something that can be or should be quantified, and trying to is a demeaning experience. The only thing to do was to draw a line in time (a recent one), at which the joint venture ended, and to divide everything in half at that point. It was liberating and somewhat shameful to change my mind on that, but I was and am still glad I did. It saved me no end of trouble.
Not too keen on rigor, myself - reminds me of mortis

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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After my obsessive two-year binge of reading about why people do terrible things, I spent another couple of years obsessed with human error. One of the things that struck me is how deeply we resist the idea of being wrong in our society (no, it isn't totally universal; it's contextual) and how that impedes us from being right. I now try to see being wrong as an opportunity, because you don't even have a CHANCE to start being right until you first figure out that you're wrong. This is one of the reasons that well-reasoned, rational argument supported by research is so incredibly valuable, because it lets other people help us discover what we're wrong about.

And we are all wrong, all the time, about a lot of things.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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I always think about Kathryn Schultz and her explanation of what being wrong feels like; it feels exactly like being right. The negative emotions associated with being wrong occur not when we are still wrong (though we may experience a lot of feelings such as self-righteousness and anger at being contradicted), but the moment we start to realize we're wrong; in other words, the moment the door to adjusting our thinking starts to open. We don't feel bad when we're in the midst of being wrong; we feel bad as soon as we start to realize we were wrong, which is the road to being right.

So, the takeaway I got from that was that if we are careful and pay attention, we can use the unpleasant feelings as a guide. If someone contradicts what you believe and you find yourself thinking about that contradiction, maybe even obsessing a little about how wrong they are and what a bad person they are for telling you you are wrong, it is a clue for yourself that there is probably something wrong with the way you are thinking about the topic. You can use that knowledge to revisit your thinking, do a little reading, and possibly to get closer to being right. It's a powerful tool.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.