Author Topic: Show Me Everything  (Read 1172 times)

PoFP

  • Word-Salad Enthusiast and Terrified Meat Sack
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 13129
    • View Profile
Show Me Everything
« on: February 14, 2017, 07:04:48 pm »
I want to know the world as it was, from centuries ago, to 20 years ago. I wanna know what events helped form the modern civilizations we see today, and what decisions they made that led to our current situation.

The thing is, I want this information described with as little bias as possible. Now, obviously, unbiased history literature is a bit of an oxymoron considering history is mostly written by the victor. But if anyone's gone over the history books from both sides, and written, extensively, their objective analysis of the collective history, I wanna know what books or essays or pieces they've done so in.

And something else, which seems to be ignored by history classes in intermediate/primary school: I want socioeconomic perspectives of history. I wanna know about the wars, and also the way the wars affected the populations and the way they lived.

PD, give me a list of pieces that will give me the ability to develop an understanding of the world as it is and as it has been. Every conflict. every peaceful resolution, every betrayal, and every assassination that helped turn the world into what it is now.

I'm gonna be doing my own research on this literature as well. But since most of you are very well read on the topic, I figured your input would be invaluable.
Listen carefully. I don't have much time, and I only have 462 characters left. I'm a scientist from Area 52 (Area 51 was used to draw attention from Area 52, where the aliens were ACTUALLY stored) who was working on neural interfacing with networked devices. In an experiment gone wrong, I accidentally uploaded my mind to the internet. In the 2 seconds I had before my mind scrambled itself with the world's network traffic, I was able to store this snippet in this random internet signature. If you're reading this, let the world know tha

PoFP

  • Word-Salad Enthusiast and Terrified Meat Sack
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 13129
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 07:22:30 pm »
Alternatively, I will be posting titles of books I find that might meet some of the criteria as above, and you can tell me if you've read it, and tell me if it's worth getting or not.
Listen carefully. I don't have much time, and I only have 462 characters left. I'm a scientist from Area 52 (Area 51 was used to draw attention from Area 52, where the aliens were ACTUALLY stored) who was working on neural interfacing with networked devices. In an experiment gone wrong, I accidentally uploaded my mind to the internet. In the 2 seconds I had before my mind scrambled itself with the world's network traffic, I was able to store this snippet in this random internet signature. If you're reading this, let the world know tha

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

  • Promotor Fidei
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 17413
  • Behold! The Yellow Sign of Dobbshead
    • View Profile
    • Yiffstar User Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 09:01:11 am »
To get the origins of stupidity as usual you'll probably have to go back way further than mere centuries and dig into the evolutionary origins of mankind. It's the damn dirty apes angle from which we get the broad strokes, the big picture.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 05:04:04 pm »
Coursera should have a number of good free courses, with textbook suggestions.

Learning is work. Those relatively impartial historical accounts are painstakingly weeded through and curated by graduate students and professors. That's how textbooks get made. They won't be objective, they are still written by the conquerors because the conquerors were who was around to write them, but academic sources are the best available sources. There is no secret library. There are no super simple shortcuts.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82807
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 05:35:56 pm »
Unfortunately my reading tends to be much more specialized in stuff you're not exactly looking for. Guns, Germs, and Steel is a good pop-history book to get you started, but you should be aware that it's got some significant flaws. His followup Collapse I really enjoyed, but again, flaws.

Our Beloved Bastard Tongue and The Story of Earth are big nonfiction faves of mine. How The Irish Saved Civilization a little more what you're looking for, but obviously it's biased as hell and narrowly focused.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114953
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 05:49:15 pm »
https://www.gutenberg.org/

Let me know when you've worked your way through that.

Note - By trying to learn everything, you'll learn nothing.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

PoFP

  • Word-Salad Enthusiast and Terrified Meat Sack
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 13129
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 10:39:11 pm »
To get the origins of stupidity as usual you'll probably have to go back way further than mere centuries and dig into the evolutionary origins of mankind. It's the damn dirty apes angle from which we get the broad strokes, the big picture.

I've been looking for the "big picture" for quite some time, and I've realized that the big picture is only relevant after you've even attempted to understand a portion of the smaller ones. Would you rather have one of those big-ass murals that span entire walls and ceilings, with intimate details the closer you look? Or would you rather have a blurry, pixelated GIF of "dirty ape" goatse?

Coursera should have a number of good free courses, with textbook suggestions.

Learning is work. Those relatively impartial historical accounts are painstakingly weeded through and curated by graduate students and professors. That's how textbooks get made. They won't be objective, they are still written by the conquerors because the conquerors were who was around to write them, but academic sources are the best available sources. There is no secret library. There are no super simple shortcuts.

This is very helpful. I'm surprised and upset that I've never heard of Coursera before.

Thank you. I think I was overlooking the effort and energy put into the learning materials I was given in school, and the ones I would be given in college if I were to go. I guess my desire for "unbiased" was probably fueled by the hatred of bias-based fallacies in politics and debates in media today. But bias in media today is quite a bit different than historical bias. And they function on totally different levels. Or maybe I was equating bias to blatant propaganda without realizing. Either way, you're right. I now realize academic sources are more than sufficient for what I want.

Unfortunately my reading tends to be much more specialized in stuff you're not exactly looking for. Guns, Germs, and Steel is a good pop-history book to get you started, but you should be aware that it's got some significant flaws. His followup Collapse I really enjoyed, but again, flaws.

Our Beloved Bastard Tongue and The Story of Earth are big nonfiction faves of mine. How The Irish Saved Civilization a little more what you're looking for, but obviously it's biased as hell and narrowly focused.

It may seem contrary to what I was asking for, but How The Irish Saved Civilization seems to me like it should be a little higher up on my reading list for sure. After rethinking my views on historical bias, I think it's texts like these that will provide intimate details of history that a text book (Intended to be generalized and widely applicable) could never provide.

I would guess that the bias in this case allowed for more absorption of and more identification with the attitude and culture of Ireland during the time periods specified. Even if some details are left out to shift favor toward Ireland, it's quite likely that those details are mentioned elsewhere.

Although, since you're the one who read it I should probably be asking you to confirm or deny the above assumptions  :lulz:

And if you have any more you'd like to suggest like that, I'll happily take those too.

Thank you for the recommendations.  :)


https://www.gutenberg.org/

Let me know when you've worked your way through that.

Note - By trying to learn everything, you'll learn nothing.



I might go all the way through the Politics Bookshelf, but their History bookshelf seems lacking. Either way, that is a convenient storage of literature on the subject. Thanks!  :)

Also, it's much less about learning everything, and more about gaining enough of an understanding to have a non-retarded historical/political discussion in today's society. No one ever does any original research these days, and I'm no different. I figure it's time to start studying boat loads when you realize that both your arguments, and the opponent's arguments are based on shoddy information at best, and pure, uneducated speculation in the worst case. And since I'm aiming at politics one day, I figure I might as well know as much as I possibly can so I don't have Betsy Devos-level hurdur moments.
Listen carefully. I don't have much time, and I only have 462 characters left. I'm a scientist from Area 52 (Area 51 was used to draw attention from Area 52, where the aliens were ACTUALLY stored) who was working on neural interfacing with networked devices. In an experiment gone wrong, I accidentally uploaded my mind to the internet. In the 2 seconds I had before my mind scrambled itself with the world's network traffic, I was able to store this snippet in this random internet signature. If you're reading this, let the world know tha

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 82807
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 10:46:21 pm »
Oh! Shelby Foote's Civil War doorstop is a definite one to add to your list. Obviously it's domestic and not international, but the author does a great job of interspersing personal narratives with the overarching historical events, which I 1000% need.

Worse Than Slavery is still sitting in my unfinished pile. It's a difficult read, but an important one for perspective on Black history between the end of slavery and the Civil Rights movement.
Overheating Pheremone Pustule of Last Saturday's Jiggle Fun| _xgeWireToEvent: Unknown extension 131, this should never happen.

Don't fucking judge me, I've got tentacles for a face.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 03:34:20 am »
If you are interested in human error, I could compile a pretty good reading list that could help give you some insight into how and why we are so prone to self-delusion, error, and generally doing terrible things to each other while believing with all our hearts that they are right and good.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


00.dusk

  • A vicious helminthic infection.
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 2690
  • Worm.
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017, 03:50:55 am »
If you are interested in human error, I could compile a pretty good reading list that could help give you some insight into how and why we are so prone to self-delusion, error, and generally doing terrible things to each other while believing with all our hearts that they are right and good.
I really, really want this for myself, if Fernando happens to be uninterested.

No intention of threadjacking, just a bump and an expression of interest.

tyrannosaurus vex

  • a gas giant of idiots
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 26657
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2017, 04:27:27 am »
Hypernormalisation won't go back centuries, but it's a good primer for the last 40 or so years.

To go back farther, if you want to know know the roots of the movements and events that form the bedrock of our modern so-called civilization, there are all kinds of directions to go in. Sadly, my lack of formal education leaves me with the usual Euro-centric conception of history, so I can't be of much use as an authority on the subject myself. Recently I have found myself seeking and being extremely saddened by the stories of the Spanish conquest of Middle and South America, particularly the systematic destruction of so much native culture and history. How that plugs into current events is beyond me (beyond the fairly obvious, anyway).

Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2017, 04:44:49 am »
Cool, I'll start it here and add to it as I think of more titles.

Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error -- Kathryn Schulz

Mistakes Were Made (but Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts -- Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson

You Are Not So Smart: Why You Have Too Many Friends on Facebook, Why Your Memory Is Mostly Fiction, and 46 Other Other Ways You're Deluding Yourself -- David McRaney

The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil -- Philip Zimbardo

Becoming Evil: How Ordinary People Commit Genocide and Mass Killing -- James E. Waller

Complications: A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science -- Atul Gawande

Monkeyluv -- Robert Sapolsky

I'll add to this list after I scour my bookshelf to jog my memory.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 03:39:17 pm by Mesozoic Mister Nigel »
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87074
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 01:10:52 pm »
Does Zimbardo still hold up?  I remember reading some of his stuff in Psych 101 many many years ago.

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114953
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2017, 02:55:35 pm »
I'd say so. Solid research and easily understood. From what I remember he was looking at the system/structures that enable terrible shit and I couldn't argue with most of what was presented.

That said, Nigel's probably got a more detailed opinion that I'd defer to here.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: Show Me Everything
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2017, 03:36:31 pm »
Does Zimbardo still hold up?  I remember reading some of his stuff in Psych 101 many many years ago.

Oh yes.

He devoted 40 years of his career to analyzing how people go bad. His observational research is highly respected and generally considered sound. He is also a super-weird mofo, which, having only spent a couple years reading about this stuff, makes perfect sense. I don't think you can devote your life to understanding atrocity and not come out of it a little fucked up.

Wisely, for the latter years of his career, he has decided to study why people do good, kind, compassionate, altruistic things, and how to set up conditions in which that behavior becomes more likely.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.