Author Topic: Milgram Redux  (Read 542 times)

MMIX

  • Доктор мом
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 16643
  • FUNEX? S, VFX. FUNEM? S, VFM
    • View Profile
Milgram Redux
« on: May 11, 2017, 10:27:47 am »
Long ago and far away, when Americans [and Brits] had a better claim to being heroes than seems to be the case today we all knew who the bad guys were; the Germans. They were apparently uniquely and spectacularly evil. They were so evil that their evil was "banal", just another accounting tool in an empire of evil that superceded any previous evil empire in born in the bone depravity. Then our old friend Stanley Milgram steps up. He can't bring himself to believe that there is something wrong with all of the German people, he believes that the motivating force for the grotesque behaviour of ordinary Germans faced with unthinkable orders and decisions is situational. To test his hypothesis he put ordinary Americans in equivalent laboratory situations and lo and behold
Quote
"Milgram recorded how far his participants were willing to go when told to deliver larger and larger shocks. In one version of the study, 26 out of 40 participants continued to the highest shock level – two steps beyond the button labelled “Danger: severe shock”.

But this was 50 years ago – surely the same wouldn’t happen if the experiment were conducted today?"

Quote
New Milgram replication in Poland finds 90 per cent of participants willing to deliver highest shock

It goes without saying that a straight replication of Milgram is not possible. Well actually it is but you would never be able to publish your results and the litigation would be crippling. The present research has developed interesting and apparently quite robust strategies to compensate for the restrictions which modern ethical standard impose to get as close to the original experiments as possible. Even allowing that they did not stress their subjects as highly as Milgram did his there seems to be a disturbing tendency towards more "obedience to authority" [as Milgram called it] in the 2017 version than just after the War. Or it could just be that Poles have now become the most evil people on the planet.

The thing which immediately struck me is that in contemporary society we are more programmed for action at a distance by our everyday technologies. We remote control our environments in ways which back in Milgram's day were the province of 'Bond villains'. Makes you think, doesn't it?

 https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/05/05/new-milgram-replication-finds-90-per-cent-of-polish-participants-willing-to-deliver-highest-shock/
"Just because the village idiots have spoken doesn't mean we have to destroy the village"

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72172
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 11:23:57 am »
I've thought for quite some time that a highly developed and technologically advanced state propaganda apparatus will result in subsequent generations of increasingly docile and compliant populace.

The opportunity arises to exploit this vulnerability for profit and lulz. These drones have a security vulnerability installed in them, a backdoor no different in principle to the one the united states of dumbfuckistan installed in RSA encryption. Security holes are not exclusive to the imbecile who demanded it, anyone with the right codes can drive through the fucker.

Take the election of a functionally retarded person to the office of chief pantomime dame which is now being widely blamed on russian trolling. That's what happens when you create a programmable electorate  - people will program them.

So the last couple of decades of state sanctioned brainwashing has resulted in a global population who will believe literally any fucking stupid shit you care to make them believe, as long as you use the right codes and now we find out (shock horror) that it's easier than ever to take control of one and make it do fucked up shit.

Well duh! :lulz:
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114953
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 05:35:56 pm »
Quite frankly, I'm disappointed. With the systems and controls we have in place now we should have a 95%+ Milgram compliance rating.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

MMIX

  • Доктор мом
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 16643
  • FUNEX? S, VFX. FUNEM? S, VFM
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 05:55:15 pm »
Hey, don't be so impatient. We are damn nearly there. Just give us a bit more time, we'll "Make America / Britain Great again" get there soon enough.
"Just because the village idiots have spoken doesn't mean we have to destroy the village"

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114953
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 06:09:42 pm »
There's a Chris Hansen joke here somewhere but I can't get it out.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87074
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 06:13:27 pm »
There's a Chris Hansen joke here somewhere but I can't get it out.

There it is.

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 114953
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 06:28:19 pm »
 :argh!:

Take a seat. Just over there.


But seriously, look at the compliance rating that guy had. It was pretty damn impressive.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87074
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 06:37:35 pm »
What was it in Illuminatus!?  The "Bavarian Fire Drill"?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BavarianFireDrill

Warning: The above links to TVTropes.com.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 02:03:53 am »
I've thought for quite some time that a highly developed and technologically advanced state propaganda apparatus will result in subsequent generations of increasingly docile and compliant populace.


I'd like to point out the middle ages and especially the Spanish Inquisition.  And later, the 30 years war.

People are less likely to do horrible shit than they were 500 years ago.  90% is an improvement.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 72172
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 10:01:37 am »
I've thought for quite some time that a highly developed and technologically advanced state propaganda apparatus will result in subsequent generations of increasingly docile and compliant populace.


I'd like to point out the middle ages and especially the Spanish Inquisition.  And later, the 30 years war.

People are less likely to do horrible shit than they were 500 years ago.  90% is an improvement.

Point taken. I guess the modern memeplex has also developed into a much more complex datastructure, requiring more nuance in command and control.

Damn you and your shiny happy optimism, I was just building up a nice healthy misanthropic rage and you've gone and taken the wind out my sails  :argh!:
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: Milgram Redux
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 10:58:02 pm »
I've thought for quite some time that a highly developed and technologically advanced state propaganda apparatus will result in subsequent generations of increasingly docile and compliant populace.


I'd like to point out the middle ages and especially the Spanish Inquisition.  And later, the 30 years war.

People are less likely to do horrible shit than they were 500 years ago.  90% is an improvement.

Point taken. I guess the modern memeplex has also developed into a much more complex datastructure, requiring more nuance in command and control.

Damn you and your shiny happy optimism, I was just building up a nice healthy misanthropic rage and you've gone and taken the wind out my sails  :argh!:

People are still dicks.  Just now they feel they need permission to act on it.

In fact, on a social level, I'd say that people are worse in the last 5 years than they have been in decades, if not centuries.  They just lack the guts to see their way to a shiny new tomorrow.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.