I think it's time to write off the progressive demographic.

[Doktor Howl]

Wasn't there some Asian and/or communist guy who philosophized something like "Things have to get worse before they can get better"? I have a vague shadow of a memory of something like that. It was, like, Mao, or Confucius, or Sun Tzu, or something.


i.e. ...

1. Let everything go to shit, causing possibly irrevocable damage
2. ???
3. REVOLUTION!!!

Is this the current plan of a large section of The Left?

You're talking about Accelerationism, I believe.

That is a bad route, that leads to meth and Nick Land.

I seriously had people telling me with STRAIGHT FACES that 4 years of Trump COULDN'T BE THAT BAD and that it would teach stubborn DNC people to love Bernie.  I was a bit of a fan myself, and that stupid shit made me hate the very idea of the progressive left.  On the other hand, people telling me that I was the worst sort of racist for supporting Bernie in the primaries makes me want to shit all over the DNC hardliners.  I'm certainly no fan of the right, either.

So basically, I fucking hate everyone.  Every last motherfucker.  I want that meteor, brothers and sisters, and I want it to land on YOU.  THAT BEING SAID, I have family members that are vulnerable to the wash of white trash nationalism sweeping the nation, and I am going to vote against the GOP even if that means getting the Bernie poo OR the DNC stink on me.  This should under no circumstances be taken as "Dok has seen the light"...No, Dok has felt the heat, and I'm going to hate you all even more no matter how the next election turns out.  It's hard to explain just how much I hate everyone right now ("everyone" being "anyone involved in any portion, at any level (right down to the voter) in American politics), and that I am feeling the forgiveness and mercifulness of a Tucson motorcycle cop right now.  I have no intention of ever forgiving the shit that got said in 2015/2016, and that is when people didn't know for sure how bad this would be, so the shit happening right now hasn't got a chance.

So if NET thinks he has a case of the ass at me for pointing out that his side doesn't DO shit except holler how much nothing they get accomplished, then I have to laugh.  Fuck you, NET, and ALSO fuck the hardcore DNC.  I hate you both, and if any of you cared about me, you'd kill yourselves today.


(ETA:  Obviously, Canadians and Eurospags get a pass on this.)

[Cain]

You, Dok, should read Nick Land.

He's like us, through a mirror darkly.  After reading occult texts, poststructuralist philosophy and going on a massive meth binge (I swear to God, I'm not making this up), he concluded capitalism must become an endlessly intensifying process without end, leading to him creating the Neoreactionary movement.  I believe he currently lives in China, which he sees as the closest thing to his preferred social model.

But generally, left and right accelerationism are excuses for making people as miserable as possible in order to enact your preferred policies.  I can't say I'm really down with that.

[Bruno]

Wasn't there some Asian and/or communist guy who philosophized something like "Things have to get worse before they can get better"? I have a vague shadow of a memory of something like that. It was, like, Mao, or Confucius, or Sun Tzu, or something.


i.e. ...

1. Let everything go to shit, causing possibly irrevocable damage
2. ???
3. REVOLUTION!!!

Is this the current plan of a large section of The Left?

You're talking about Accelerationism, I believe.

That is a bad route, that leads to meth and Nick Land.

Actually, I think it was Leninism, and 'heightening the contradictions.'

Maybe we should call this latest iteration "Sarandonism".

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/03/29/susan_sarandon_is_perfect_spokeswoman_for_neverhillary.html

[Cain]

The Dude:
It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh...

Donny:
I am the walrus.

The Dude:
You know what I'm trying to say...

Walter Sobchak:
That fucking bitch...

Donny:
I am the walrus.

Walter Sobchak:
shut the fuck up, Donny! V.I. Lenin. Vladimir Illanich Uleninov!

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

So if NET thinks he has a case of the ass at me for pointing out that his side doesn't DO shit except holler how much nothing they get accomplished, then I have to laugh.  Fuck you, NET, and ALSO fuck the hardcore DNC.  I hate you both, and if any of you cared about me, you'd kill yourselves today.

(ETA:  Obviously, Canadians and Eurospags get a pass on this.)

My side? Are you even on the Left or do you just pretend to be?

I'm not a progressive, so as much as you seem intent on shitting on someone who identifies with that movement, I'm more interested in actually accomplishing things that we all have in common.

I have to wonder if your de facto alliance is with every other violent white guy in the US that fantasizes about mass indiscriminate killings and casually encourages suicide. Fuck your entire worldview that's consistently invested in verbal abuse, demoralization, and dividing people rather than mustering the courage and self-determination necessary for building a world worth living in.

Which is all the more inexcusable in that you can so clearly see these problems—clearer than most—but actively poison every idea to make things less shitty while offering exactly zero ways foward. You are just another instance of what you hate on the Left but you lack enough self-awareness to see it.

Just like most pessimists, you're sitting on the sidelines spitting on anyone who is taking the risks of working towards a fairer world while you piss and moan about how awful eveyone is. How old are you for fucks sake?

You're a goddamn fucking coward with little to offer but some cheap laughs and empty talk.

Congratulations on doing the right wing's work for them out of some pathetic spiral of callous bullshit. Yeah, anger is important because it indicates what you actually care about, but perhaps it's more important as to what you actually do with it.

[LMNO]

I can totally see a reasonable, even-handed discussion from this post onward.

Nailed it.

[trippinprincezz13]

My side? Are you even on the Left or do you just pretend to be?

I do hate to get involved in problems between two people, but I can't help but feel that this sentence kind of drives the underlying theme of this thread home.

[Doktor Howl]

You're a goddamn fucking coward with little to offer but some cheap laughs and empty talk.

I am still waiting to hear what has been "accomplished".

[Doktor Howl]

It's worth noting that furious activity without results is not an accomplishment.

[Doktor Howl]

I'm not kidding, NET.  Sell me.  What exactly have you guys gotten done?  Because from where I sit, you guys CARE, sure.  You care SO MUCH that the left can't even talk to itself anymore.  But in terms of actual accomplishment, all I see is that division.  So correct my mistaken understanding; in terms of tangible results, what IS there?

[LMNO]

I AM NOT N E T.

But I do call myself progressive (or at least way left of the DNC).

So: the DNC platform has adopted and moved towards a few of the progressive/Sanders ideas, namely: single payer healthcare; universal basic income; increased minimum wage; criminal justice reform; climate change.

I don't think this would have happened without a lot of people loudly asking for it from their local/primary elections. But I could be wrong.

In the "small steps" strategy, this is what would be expected from a grassroots push against the Democratic moderate status quo that currently exists in Congress.

It should be noted, however, that when the Big Bet is on the table, not voting for the "not perfect, but more probable" is akin to voting for the "a shit demon" option.

[Doktor Howl]

I AM NOT N E T.

But I do call myself progressive (or at least way left of the DNC).

So: the DNC platform has adopted and moved towards a few of the progressive/Sanders ideas, namely: single payer healthcare; universal basic income; increased minimum wage; criminal justice reform; climate change.

I don't think this would have happened without a lot of people loudly asking for it from their local/primary elections. But I could be wrong.

In the "small steps" strategy, this is what would be expected from a grassroots push against the Democratic moderate status quo that currently exists in Congress.

It should be noted, however, that when the Big Bet is on the table, not voting for the "not perfect, but more probable" is akin to voting for the "a shit demon" option.

What I'm saying.  Ideally, we'd run the place like Norway.  It CAN be done.

In practice, though, allowing the Perfect to murder the Good Enough in favor of "Orange Colostomy Bag Nazis" isn't "making the world a better place."  I guess, though, that it COULD be called an accomplishment, same as Amelia Earhart accomplished something on her last flight.  If her plane was loaded with poor folks and orphans or some shit.  Ignominiously crash, take a bunch of poor bastards with you, and nobody will ever know or care about the details.

[Doktor Howl]

SO, all that being said, the only priority I am interested in is "getting the GOP out of power."  I don't have many purity tests for people in a position to do that, other than "not a Nazi."

Because in a time when we are taking kids away from asylum-seekers and then putting those kids in actual cages with no oversight is not a time to sit and wank off to perfect ideals.

[LMNO]

I hear you; and looks like you hear me.


So, now that I said my piece, I'm comfortable in my position of "if it doesn't sound like it's about me, it's not about me".

[Doktor Howl]

I hear you; and looks like you hear me.


So, now that I said my piece, I'm comfortable in my position of "if it doesn't sound like it's about me, it's not about me".

No, it was never about you.  It was about an endless parade of people on FB (and one here, apparently), who tell me that we're better off with actual Goddamn Nazis than we would with an admittedly flawed democratic candidate.

It fucking slays me.  It is the very epitome of throwing toys out of the pram.  It is throwing the lowest rung of society not only off the ladder but into the llama pit, because it looks good to the other top-knotted hipsters when even postmodernism can never be good enough.

I accuse you of many things, LMNO - and RIGHTFULLY SO, I MIGHT ADD - but shitty fucking logic isn't one of those things.