Author Topic: Explaining Ourselves  (Read 3710 times)

Al Qədic

  • Nonexistent Amphibian Who Is Not Very
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Chairwoman of Feldspathic Rananite
    • View Profile
Explaining Ourselves
« on: February 26, 2019, 10:52:01 pm »
Hi all. So, today in my mythology class, we covered Buddhism, and as such, we brought up the idea of non-spiritual belief systems. Naturally, my mind immediately jumped to Discordianism, so I want some input as to what I could show the Prof to give them an idea of what it, and other joke/parody religions (I'm debating on mentioning the Pastafarians, Jediists, etc., or just keeping it to Discordianism, since there's more history there) are all about. Obviously I'll link them the PD, and maybe the BIP, but are there any other texts, or maybe a real solid video or two, that would be useful for explaining our belief system to an older person who has studied world mythologies for I-don't-know-how-long? I want to get across to them how we are on a sliding scale of belief (we all have our "own" Discordia; some are devout and theistic, some are philosophical and atheistic, some are a bit of both, and most are rather silly), but I don't want to just go "hey, look at this thing us younger people are into that's kind of nonsensical and doesn't take itself seriously" to someone who really knows their stuff, y'know? They showed a bit of interest when I mentioned sending them some material, so I think they'll receive it well. Thoughts?
There is no reason to,
Be ashamed of poetry. It,
Is natural. But you should,
Still do it in private,
And wash your hands afterward.

Faust

  • Tyrannical Overlord
  • Deserved It
  • *
  • Posts: 9814
  • The Greasy Strangler
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 11:52:29 pm »
I prefer to think of it as a spiritual non-belief system.
The god of my religion has explicitly forbidden me from believing in her and to question anyone claiming to have teachings of her, or of anything else. I get all the benefits of a religious support group, the same as Christans, without the catholic guilt or sadly the hot soccer moms at the sunday bake sales.
Narrator: In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings

May you find your worth in the waking world.

rong

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 1751
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2019, 12:03:01 am »
it's the Godel's Incompleteness Theorem of belief systems
"he was a smart feller who felt smart"

Doktor Howl

  • Вся ваша база принадлежит нам
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 33443
  • Horrible Bastard
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 03:13:24 am »
"hey, look at this thing us younger people are into

I hate everything and I only want to die.
Morrissey is the crown prince of sad.  He teaches us that deaf/mute girls are terrible at telling you that a disaster is occurring, and that when you get famous, all your old friends hate you for buying new tee shirts.  Morrissey fans are best known for hugging their legs and biting their knees in the shower, over a girl that dumped them rather than learn their name, or binge-eating an entire pizza and then throwing it up on their man-boobs in the bath tub, while they squeeze their  testicles until they remember that they are worthless and do not deserve love.

Al Qədic

  • Nonexistent Amphibian Who Is Not Very
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Chairwoman of Feldspathic Rananite
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 03:42:07 am »
"hey, look at this thing us younger people are into
I hate everything and I only want to die.
I'm not sure if this is a comment on teenage angst and depression, or a comment on feeling old and unappreciated...or maybe it's a comment about pineapple on pizza, I've been wrong about interpreting people's words plenty of times before. :lulz:
There is no reason to,
Be ashamed of poetry. It,
Is natural. But you should,
Still do it in private,
And wash your hands afterward.

Doktor Howl

  • Вся ваша база принадлежит нам
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 33443
  • Horrible Bastard
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 04:05:36 am »
"hey, look at this thing us younger people are into
I hate everything and I only want to die.
I'm not sure if this is a comment on teenage angst and depression, or a comment on feeling old and unappreciated...or maybe it's a comment about pineapple on pizza, I've been wrong about interpreting people's words plenty of times before. :lulz:

I am horribly old and vile.  So are most of the Discordians posting here.  We hate the young, so we burned the planet up for you.
Morrissey is the crown prince of sad.  He teaches us that deaf/mute girls are terrible at telling you that a disaster is occurring, and that when you get famous, all your old friends hate you for buying new tee shirts.  Morrissey fans are best known for hugging their legs and biting their knees in the shower, over a girl that dumped them rather than learn their name, or binge-eating an entire pizza and then throwing it up on their man-boobs in the bath tub, while they squeeze their  testicles until they remember that they are worthless and do not deserve love.

Con-troll

  • Mass murderer of fruit flies
  • Known & Noted
  • **
  • Posts: 124
  • and harmful bacteria.
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 06:42:01 am »
We hate the young, so we burned the planet up for you.

*aggressively points all fingers at*
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 06:43:46 am by Con-troll »
I get trauma from stuff most don't even notice.

nullified

  • Literal Helminthic Infestation
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 816
  • CAUTION: Eats all of it. May be spooky. Keep out.
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 07:53:47 am »
"hey, look at this thing us younger people are into
I hate everything and I only want to die.
I'm not sure if this is a comment on teenage angst and depression, or a comment on feeling old and unappreciated...or maybe it's a comment about pineapple on pizza, I've been wrong about interpreting people's words plenty of times before. :lulz:

I am horribly old and vile.  So are most of the Discordians posting here.  We hate the young, so we burned the planet up for you.

If youre unlucky, Discordia will lead you to Cramulan beliefs, and then you rapidly age into a rotten swamp hag and you arent even 30 yet, just like me.
I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.

Cramulus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 21351
    • View Profile
    • Cramul.us
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 12:26:34 pm »
I don't know of any good videos that "sum it up".
Let me venture a shortform Discordian definition

a collection of attitudes about beliefs,

including a skepticism towards organized religion

and a recognition of humor as something truly transcendent

which helps protect against rigidity, zeal, and ego.



The Discordian hierarchy is flipped - the people who know the least about it "get it" the most. So you can learn a thing or two from your fellow popes.

I think you should pass out pope cards, let everybody know they are already a Discordian pope, and are now a certified authority on Discordianism, able to query the Goddess directly. Then ask others what Discordianism is. Take them seriously.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 62185
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 01:05:47 pm »
I think you should pass out pope cards, let everybody know they are already a Discordian pope, and are now a certified authority on Discordianism, able to query the Goddess directly. Then ask others what Discordianism is. Take them seriously.


Yes.  "Every man, woman, and child* on this Earth is an genuine and authorized Pope."  Treat them as such.


Also, someone (ECH) once explained their Discordia as, "Militant Agnosticism".  It has a nice ring to it.







*Might need to be updated to account for gender fluidity, but hey, it was a different time.

nullified

  • Literal Helminthic Infestation
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 816
  • CAUTION: Eats all of it. May be spooky. Keep out.
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 08:54:00 pm »
I think you should pass out pope cards, let everybody know they are already a Discordian pope, and are now a certified authority on Discordianism, able to query the Goddess directly. Then ask others what Discordianism is. Take them seriously.


Yes.  "Every man, woman, and child* on this Earth is an genuine and authorized Pope."  Treat them as such.


Also, someone (ECH) once explained their Discordia as, "Militant Agnosticism".  It has a nice ring to it.







*Might need to be updated to account for gender fluidity, but hey, it was a different time.

Someone, I think QGP, made a more neutral pope card.
I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me.

Al Qədic

  • Nonexistent Amphibian Who Is Not Very
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Chairwoman of Feldspathic Rananite
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2019, 03:37:14 am »
Alrighty then, I'm just about ready to rattle off the email, but I might as well put this thread to more use and let you people nitpick improve my words. Thanks for the input, all, especially Cram (you can probably see I put in your shortform definition towards the end). I'm especially worried about my wording of the origin of Discordianism as MAL2 and Lord Omar "looking to explain chaos." I know that's part of the reason, but is it a tad...reductionist? I dunno. Feel free to add on to those defining ideas if you think I'm missing some big aspect of the PD there.

Here's the body as it stands, sans introduction, link to the PD (from this site, of course), and closing:

Like I mentioned after class on Tuesday, I'd love to hear your thoughts on joke religions; I suppose a more accurate name might be "parodic belief systems," as not all are necessarily theistic. I digress. As I mentioned to you, at the core of these belief systems is the desire to poke fun at theism, often done by taking its many tropes, adding a dash of humor, and either subverting them or taking them to the extreme in order to highlight the absurdities and silliness that often goes unnoticed in religion. Many of the more well-known joke religions are young, born just before or during the advent of the internet, and vary in complexity. Jediism and Dudeism are Buddhist and Taoist beliefs with coats of Star Wars and The Big Lewbowski-themed paint, for instance. Pastafarianism and The Invisible Pink Unicorn were created to criticize Christian intelligent design and creationism on one hand, and the arbitrary, unfalsifiable nature of religion in general on the other.

What I think you'll find more interesting, meanwhile, is the "joke disguised as a religion or religion disguised as a joke" that is Discordianism. It was founded in the '60s, a time where two young Americans looked at the world around them and wondered to themselves where all the strangeness and confusion, in their country of rules and order, came from. Their answer, as you might surmise from the religion's name, lied with the Greeks; they wanted a deity to help explain chaos, and Eris was a perfect fit. So, working from their central problem, the story of Eris throwing the golden apple into the crowd of the gods, and the anti-authority hippie counterculture of the '60s, the pair went and published the Principia Discordia.

Some of its defining ideas include:
"Every man, woman, and child on this Earth is a genuine and authorized Pope," whether they know it or not, and the fact that one is a Pope does not save one from criticism.
There is order in the world, as well as chaos, and both are an illusion of the mind that only mean something because we give them meaning.
Adherents are encouraged to believe what they want, and not let anyone's beliefs, even their own, be pushed on anyone else.

All of this, combined with subtle jabs at organized religion, including the use of numerology without a reasonable explanation, mocking the repetitive text in the Christian Bible, including absurd and vulgar phrases in its initiation rituals, and satirizing holy symbols (the Holy Chao is a very blatant Yin-Yang), makes Discordianism into a rather unique parody religion. Where there is basically one way to be a "proper" Pastafarian, there is no "proper" Discordianism; modern adherents say they have "their own" Eris/Discordia to worship as they see fit. For some, this actually does make Discordianism a religious experience. For others, it's "a collection of attitudes about beliefs, including skepticism towards organized religion, and a recognition of humor as something truly transcendent, which helps protect against rigidity, zeal, and ego." For others still, it's just a good excuse to make jokes. None of these viewpoints are necessarily "wrong" or necessarily "right."
There is no reason to,
Be ashamed of poetry. It,
Is natural. But you should,
Still do it in private,
And wash your hands afterward.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 5928
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2019, 04:08:12 am »
I just did a similar thing for the UU church I go to. If you're serious about doing this right, I have a set of multifold pope cards with the more gender neutral language and some of the key essays all done up, I can upload the lot here.

I always recommend Holy Nonsense as a point of entry, not just because it's my baby but because it breaks things into shiny, digestible pieces and collects from PD, BIP, the Et Cetera Discordia and some other sources. The core idea of the project is also a great way to get people thinking more like a Discordian: what other religion encourages you to staple together bits and pieces of what you like into your own bible?

Recommended reading:
Finally, by Cram https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/finally/
Rejoice, by Gnimbley https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/rejoice/
The Parable of Steve, by Nigel https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/parable-of-steve/
There Is A Moon https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/there-is-a-moon/
Hearts and Minds, by Cain https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/hearts-and-minds/
Guerrilla Surrealism https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/guerrilla-surrealism/
Go Mindfuck Yourself, by Cram https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/gomfyourself/
Chaosophy, by Hexar https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/chaosophy/
The Strange Times, by Cram https://qgpennyworth.com/portfolios/the-strange-times/

Al Qədic

  • Nonexistent Amphibian Who Is Not Very
  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Chairwoman of Feldspathic Rananite
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2019, 04:18:05 am »
I just did a similar thing for the UU church I go to. If you're serious about doing this right, I have a set of multifold pope cards with the more gender neutral language and some of the key essays all done up, I can upload the lot here.
Oh, I'll gladly do some PosterGASMing and Pope-card-proliferation some day, but for now I just want to introduce the ideas to the prof, simple as that. That said, I'll gladly keep those links in mind for the future. Thanks again, Q.G., you do great heckin' work. :)
There is no reason to,
Be ashamed of poetry. It,
Is natural. But you should,
Still do it in private,
And wash your hands afterward.

Q. G. Pennyworth

  • Slimy Thing Who
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 5928
  • QUEEN BITCH OF FLYERS
    • View Profile
Re: Explaining Ourselves
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2019, 04:23:16 am »
If the professor lets you talk to the class about it, Pope Cards are mandatory.