Author Topic: The Blackest Friday: 2019 holiday season / pre-election gun buying deals!!!  (Read 1548 times)

Bruno

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I'm confused about what it is that you need me to have been sarcastic about.

Is it the part where I talk about my enthusiasm for shooting people who aren't shooting people, or who are shooting at me? Because that wasn't sarcasm, probably an overstatement, but not sarcasm.

I can honestly say that I would be more enthusiastic about shooting at someone who was shooting at me, than I would be shooting at someone who is shooting at someone else I don't know, but not me.
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Bruno

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The gun hoarding thing... I think what it is is, like,  some kind of ritual. Like scratching protection runes onto a tree or something. It doesn't actually accomplish anything (probably), but it makes me feel better for... other than logical reasons.
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“Need” is a word that doesn’t in any way fit here. “I” do not “need” anything to “be” any way at all.

No, in general there’s a couple posts (mostly in the first page) that smell like satire, and then everything else tastes of deadly seriousness. Then finally, you put in a little sarcasm in your reply to me after I beg you to take me seriously for a second. And that’s fair. Deserved, even.

Nothing “needs” to be sarcastic here, as far as I’m concerned. The problem isn’t a lack of sarcasm. That would, at best, mask the underlying issue.

The issue is you have let the Prepper Meme hijack you and now it’s hard for you to write any negatives without an offsetting positive. There has to be a justification for Why any time you mention a reason Why Not. That’s the problem. You have become, in a little way, less biped and more hive drone.

You could say that’s just you being honest about your motivations, but justification is a post-facto process. Your motivations are more likely to be something emotional. And indeed, some emotional drives have been touched upon, but then they’re buried under “logical” justifications.

The point of me digging into this is so you can recognize where the meme is digging into you and pull it out. Your actual behavior literally doesn’t need to change: you can just Buy Guns and have that be A Thing You Do and that’s totally fine. You can even Be Prepared and know How To Do Things! It’s fine. It’s okay. It even makes you more interesting!

But there is currently a paranoid, meme driven impulse to it that is not just irrational, but actually wrong. That’s what I’m aiming at here.

Wrong? You bet: a gun will not help you survive either a pobucker uprising or the collapse of civilization.

You do not have enough bullets for a pobucker army, assuming they even got close enough to you to be a threat before the military stepped in.

And as Howl said, your rapid death is assured in a post-civilization America, and the gun will not help increase your lifespan or decrease your difficulties. In fact, there is almost no preparation that can help you there. If civilization goes down, you are going to be some broken, stained bones in a degrading, abandoned Walmart parking lot and nothing you can do or acquire will change that, short of enough money for a private helicopter forever kept in ready condition in a secret location.

Coming back to “need”: What I’m trying to do is show you where this parasitic idea that Being Prepared Will Save You is lodged in your brain so you can pull it out. I don’t “need” you to remove it though, it would just be sad to see someone who’s been around so long go insane from prepper cysticercosis when we have a goddamn treatment for that.
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chaotic neutral observer

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Just as the entirely of Canadian culture is about dying of exposure in the or drowning in the great lakes. 

Half the year, when you go outside, you can die.  You spend the rest of the year celebrating the fact that you can go outside without dying.  It sorta puts a tinge on things.

I think it's partly why Canadians pretend to be polite.  Stuck indoors, in close quarters, you don't want to piss someone off to the extent that they kick you out.
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rong

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is this a prepper thread now? 

i think "prepping" is a natural mindset for someone that lives a comfortable life, wants to continue living a comfortable life, is a little paranoid and pessimistic about the world around them.

but, a real "doomsday" scenario, i think, is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.

a natural disaster might fuck your shit up for a couple weeks or, at absolute most, say 3 months - so keep some extra food on hand.

there will never be a land war of any kind on american soil.  maybe some riots in the cities some day, but those won't last long and are easy to avoid.

a more realistic concern would be hyperinflation so food and supplies become unaffordable.  then you'll have rampant crime and stuff.  but that will take a long time, like several months to several years - if you pay attention, you'll see it coming and have time to prepare accordingly.

i do think guns and ammo are a better investment than gold if you are looking to build wealth.  guns certainly seem to keep increasing in value.  and in the "total societal crash" scenario that they always try to use to sell you gold - well, me, i'd rather have guns and ammo in that scenario.  i'm sure you could trade some bullets for some rice. . . what good is gold when the chips are that far down??

it doesn't hurt to have extra supplies on hand.  it doesn't hurt to have some chickens and grow some of your own food.  it's fun and healthier (i think).  if it takes paranoia to make you learn about aquaponics or something, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. 

i think going off the grid is a good goal - whether you do it because you are concerned about the environment, or maybe you don't like paying an electric bill, or maybe you wanna be able to watch porn when it all goes to hell.  if it takes schizoid paranoia to get you to go off grid, then, at least you're helping the environment, right??
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Cain

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Here's the thing. Unless infrastructure is completely destroyed, there is a baseline to quality of life and ability to govern that these things will not fall below.

So long as there are roads, power and communications, things will not reach a point of complete societal breakdown. There may be problems with continuous service, but the fundamentals remain for someone to restore order. And even if there is a temporary power vacuum, people have a tendency to move into them and implement their own solutions.

If you really want to prep, take time to build links with your local community. Because there will still be communities, even in the worst kind of scenario, and you won't last long without one. If there is a power vacuum, people will stand up and restore order. And no amount of guns or stockpiled cans of baked beans are going to be as effective as 50 people all working together and looking out for each other.

rong

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... And no amount of guns or stockpiled cans of baked beans are going to be as effective as 50 people all working together and looking out for each other.

BUT WHAT IF THOSE 50 PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ANY BEANS???

OR WHAT IF THEY DO, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY GUNS TO PROTECT THE BEANS THAT THEY HAVE FROM THE PEOPLE WITH GUNSSSSS?????
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but, a real "doomsday" scenario, i think, is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.
The probability of a doomsday scenario occurring is 100%.  Maybe you should tack a time limit on that claim.

Quote
there will never be a land war of any kind on american soil.
You already had a pretty respectable "land war", in the 1860s.  Nothing precludes the states from breaking apart and fighting each other again.

Quote
  maybe some riots in the cities some day, but those won't last long and are easy to avoid.
uh

Quote
i think going off the grid is a good goal - whether you do it because you are concerned about the environment, or maybe you don't like paying an electric bill, or maybe you wanna be able to watch porn when it all goes to hell.  if it takes schizoid paranoia to get you to go off grid, then, at least you're helping the environment, right??
This planet does not have anywhere near the carrying capacity for everyone to go off the grid.  There isn't enough usable land area.  Industrialized agriculture, regulated sufficiently, and done sustainably, wouldn't cause near the damage of a significant fraction of the population trying to make it on their own.  Unless you've got one of John Galt's free energy machines, you're going to be cutting down forests for firewood.
"When I say 'engineering', I have unreasonable expectations.  It must - as you know - look good in PADS AND give you plenty of help ducking and weaving in meetings.  But it must also, at some distant point in time, function.  If it does not, then you must accept that you are not in fact an engineer but instead an MBA.  Hang your head in SHAME, sinner!"

rong

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but, a real "doomsday" scenario, i think, is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.
The probability of a doomsday scenario occurring is 100%.  Maybe you should tack a time limit on that claim.

Quote
there will never be a land war of any kind on american soil.
You already had a pretty respectable "land war", in the 1860s.  Nothing precludes the states from breaking apart and fighting each other again.

Quote
  maybe some riots in the cities some day, but those won't last long and are easy to avoid.
uh

Quote
i think going off the grid is a good goal - whether you do it because you are concerned about the environment, or maybe you don't like paying an electric bill, or maybe you wanna be able to watch porn when it all goes to hell.  if it takes schizoid paranoia to get you to go off grid, then, at least you're helping the environment, right??
This planet does not have anywhere near the carrying capacity for everyone to go off the grid.  There isn't enough usable land area.  Industrialized agriculture, regulated sufficiently, and done sustainably, wouldn't cause near the damage of a significant fraction of the population trying to make it on their own.  Unless you've got one of John Galt's free energy machines, you're going to be cutting down forests for firewood.

mostly good points.  i disagree on your probability of doomsday being 100% but any argument about that would just devolve into "what do you mean by "doomsday," anyways?"

true we had a land war - but that was before snapchat and high fructose corn syrup was invented.

cities are pretty easy to avoid.  i don't think this is disputable

i think i agree with you that most people won't be able to farm, but i'm not sure about the "not enough usable land area" if you know what you're doing, you can grow a shit load of food on a not that big parcel of land.  and chickens literally just wander around all day eating bugs and and shitting out eggs.  you can feed them table scraps - even dead chickens - they don't give a fuck.  tougher in the winter time - so you pickle some eggs. 

potatoes are easy as hell to grow - and you need like no space at all to do it.

maybe i've been living deep enough in the woods for so long that what other people think of as prepping - i think of as my fun little farm hobby . . .

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mostly good points.  i disagree on your probability of doomsday being 100% but any argument about that would just devolve into "what do you mean by "doomsday," anyways?"
Humanity will be faced with a major extinction event at some point; it's a matter of time.

Quote
true we had a land war - but that was before snapchat and high fructose corn syrup was invented.
That doesn't merit a response.

Quote
cities are pretty easy to avoid.  i don't think this is disputable
uh

Quote
i think i agree with you that most people won't be able to farm, but i'm not sure about the "not enough usable land area" if you know what you're doing, you can grow a shit load of food on a not that big parcel of land.  and chickens literally just wander around all day eating bugs and and shitting out eggs.  you can feed them table scraps - even dead chickens - they don't give a fuck.  tougher in the winter time - so you pickle some eggs. 

potatoes are easy as hell to grow - and you need like no space at all to do it.

maybe i've been living deep enough in the woods for so long that what other people think of as prepping - i think of as my fun little farm hobby . . .

The United States has about 1.25 acres of arable land per person.  You think that's enough?

I run a decently-sized vegetable garden.  Scaling it up to the point where I would be food self-sufficient would require a lot more space, and it would become a full-time job.

This far north, I'm not even sure if I could do it (post-apocalypse), if I was stuck with hand-irrigation, no gasoline-powered implements, no artificial fertilizer, and having to manage my own seed stock.

So, no, I don't think a lot of people going off the grid would be workable.
"When I say 'engineering', I have unreasonable expectations.  It must - as you know - look good in PADS AND give you plenty of help ducking and weaving in meetings.  But it must also, at some distant point in time, function.  If it does not, then you must accept that you are not in fact an engineer but instead an MBA.  Hang your head in SHAME, sinner!"

Bruno

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is this a prepper thread now? 

i think "prepping" is a natural mindset for someone that lives a comfortable life, wants to continue living a comfortable life, is a little paranoid and pessimistic about the world around them.

but, a real "doomsday" scenario, i think, is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.

a natural disaster might fuck your shit up for a couple weeks or, at absolute most, say 3 months - so keep some extra food on hand.

there will never be a land war of any kind on american soil.  maybe some riots in the cities some day, but those won't last long and are easy to avoid.

a more realistic concern would be hyperinflation so food and supplies become unaffordable.  then you'll have rampant crime and stuff.  but that will take a long time, like several months to several years - if you pay attention, you'll see it coming and have time to prepare accordingly.

i do think guns and ammo are a better investment than gold if you are looking to build wealth.  guns certainly seem to keep increasing in value.  and in the "total societal crash" scenario that they always try to use to sell you gold - well, me, i'd rather have guns and ammo in that scenario.  i'm sure you could trade some bullets for some rice. . . what good is gold when the chips are that far down??

it doesn't hurt to have extra supplies on hand.  it doesn't hurt to have some chickens and grow some of your own food.  it's fun and healthier (i think).  if it takes paranoia to make you learn about aquaponics or something, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. 

i think going off the grid is a good goal - whether you do it because you are concerned about the environment, or maybe you don't like paying an electric bill, or maybe you wanna be able to watch porn when it all goes to hell.  if it takes schizoid paranoia to get you to go off grid, then, at least you're helping the environment, right??

It was supposed to be about how Jesus died so that a lot of money could be saved on shiny new murdersticks, but if people want to share their braided earthworm jerky recipes, that's fine.
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Doktor Howl

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Just as the entirely of Canadian culture is about dying of exposure in the or drowning in the great lakes. 

Half the year, when you go outside, you can die.  You spend the rest of the year celebrating the fact that you can go outside without dying.  It sorta puts a tinge on things.

I think it's partly why Canadians pretend to be polite.  Stuck indoors, in close quarters, you don't want to piss someone off to the extent that they kick you out.

Here, if you go outside 9 months out of the year, you cook to death.  The other 3 months you drown.

It works for us.
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All going off the grid accomplishes is the people that can afford it DO, and the people that can't afford it - most of them - are left with a decaying, unmaintained grid. 

This is actually worse for the environment.  Not to mention all the hilarity that goes along with farming wherever.  Like the residue of 75 years of leaded gasoline.

Hitting a reset button won't save us.  As Cain implied, the only thing that can save us is what we're best at:  Cooperation.

"Rugged individualism" is a fatal mutation.
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nullified

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All going off the grid accomplishes is the people that can afford it DO, and the people that can't afford it - most of them - are left with a decaying, unmaintained grid. 

This is actually worse for the environment.  Not to mention all the hilarity that goes along with farming wherever.  Like the residue of 75 years of leaded gasoline.

Hitting a reset button won't save us.  As Cain implied, the only thing that can save us is what we're best at:  Cooperation.

"Rugged individualism" is a fatal mutation.

Which I’ve been able to see for myself.

Outside of the Arctic and Antarctic, twelve people are better than two, even if there’s only food for two. The homeless have realized this, which is why most of them look out for each other and the rest end up living entirely alone in drainpipes and maintenance tunnels, losing their sanity and humanity.
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Bruno

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Here's the thing. Unless infrastructure is completely destroyed, there is a baseline to quality of life and ability to govern that these things will not fall below.

So long as there are roads, power and communications, things will not reach a point of complete societal breakdown. There may be problems with continuous service, but the fundamentals remain for someone to restore order. And even if there is a temporary power vacuum, people have a tendency to move into them and implement their own solutions.

If you really want to prep, take time to build links with your local community. Because there will still be communities, even in the worst kind of scenario, and you won't last long without one. If there is a power vacuum, people will stand up and restore order. And no amount of guns or stockpiled cans of baked beans are going to be as effective as 50 people all working together and looking out for each other.

True, very true. Some of the smarter prep related channels on youtube push the same message. I would put nutnfancy on the high end of that scale. On the lower end I'd put Reid Heinrichs and ThePatriotNurse.
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