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Started by Junkenstein, July 09, 2020, 06:38:37 PM

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hooplala

Quote from: Doktor Howl on January 29, 2023, 05:49:34 PM
Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 28, 2023, 06:31:37 PM

Why, what have you been hearing?

If I didn't know these two so well, I'd assume that someone strapped them to a chair in front of a Tucker Carlson show (he has gone from screeching about this to "liberating Canada" in the last few days).

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Setting that aside, Canada's medical system is heavily overloaded right now, which might be a reason not to move here, especially if you're in less than perfect health.  It's almost impossible to find a GP in many areas, and there were recently two cases of women in Nova Scotia dying while waiting for treatment in emergency rooms.

That happens here all the time.  Your wait may be dictated by your ability to pay, even in the ER.

Boy howdy. Sounds like Canada is the new Tucson.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

hooplala

I know a fair amount of indigenous people from the Kettle Point reservation, but never heard a single one ever mention receiving any reparation payments... maybe they just don't talk about it to me, since... you know. But some of the houses there sure don't look like they are getting much from the government.
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Faust

Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 30, 2023, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: Faust on January 30, 2023, 08:38:45 PM
Why would I read a British Tabloid? I was reading this last week, has there been a scheme for redress available before it?


That's what I just said.  There was a settlement agreement in 2007.  https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100015576/1571581687074
The then-prime minister issued an apology in 2008, not this "5 years ago" you guessed at.

This isn't some new thing that suddenly showed up last week.
I wasn't aware of the earlier settlment, the article I linked is about the Canadian government settling its lawsuit and for what looks like a lot more then the 27 million they did previously.
2bn as of last week, its why I mentioned it, it was recently I saw it
Sleepless nights at the chateau

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: hooplala on January 30, 2023, 09:17:32 PM
I know a fair amount of indigenous people from the Kettle Point reservation, but never heard a single one ever mention receiving any reparation payments... maybe they just don't talk about it to me, since... you know. But some of the houses there sure don't look like they are getting much from the government.
Those are the "Common Experience Payments" in the link I posted.  I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't enough to noticeably improve conditions for the recipients; I was just snapping back at Faust's "as long as there is absolutely no talk of reparation" comment.

There are plenty of real criticisms to be levied at Canada's treatment of the indigenous, without making up new ones.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

hooplala

"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman

Faust

Making up new ones? I wasn't going to labour this but from my perspective it looks like the Canadian government gave a pittance of 27 million to the entire remaining population of the survivors of cultural and literal ethnic cleansing.
This being such an inexcusable low figure, that the indigenous people sued them for what they deserved and finally won 2 Billion out of the gov, which is less then what they should have received in the first place. And this wrapped up: last week
Sleepless nights at the chateau

chaotic neutral observer

Your specific claims have been that the indigenous were wiped out; that wrongdoing wasn't acknowledged until five years ago; and that the apology was disjoint from any attempt at reparation, adequate or otherwise.

Those claims were false.
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Faust

#1132
You are splitting hairs, the indigenous peoples were decimated, and the survivors faced ethnic cleansing where their culture was taken from them.
If you want to argue the language used: They were wiped out, they just weren't fully extinguished and as I already said, I was unaware of any previous reparations until the case the government settled last week, which they obviously fought tooth and against if the original amount was as you listed in 2007 and the real settlment this year,  I was basing that off news however I assuned around five years I didnt think that the process could have dragged on that long so you have me there

The bottom line is the Canadian government made a wholly inadequate token gesture and then had to be forced via legal means to meet its obligation, which I saw as a recent development based on the news story from last week.

Sleepless nights at the chateau

chaotic neutral observer

Quote from: Faust on January 30, 2023, 11:07:47 PM
They were wiped out, they just weren't fully extinguished
After you first said they were wiped out, you were surprised when when I told you the real population numbers.  But now you're doubling down, and pretending that "wiped out" means something other than "destroyed completely".  Or does "wiped out" have a different connotation in your dialect of English?  Maybe next time say "the population was devastated" instead.

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I was unaware of any previous reparations
Speaking of matters of which you are unaware would seem to be a problem.

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I didnt think that the process could have dragged on that long so you have me there
Well, at least you admit to being in error in two out of three cases.

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The bottom line is the Canadian government made a wholly inadequate token gesture and then had to be forced via legal means to meet its obligation, which I saw as a recent development based on the news story from last week.
That is arguably true.  Perhaps you understand why this is a sensitive issue domestically, and why misinformation might provoke a reaction?
Desine fata deum flecti sperare precando.

Doktor Howl

It suddenly feels like PD is alive again.   :lulz:
Molon Lube

altered

I can kill it again.

But I won't, because I'm lazy and we deserve the hell we've made ourselves.
"I am that worst of all type of criminal...I cannot bring myself to do what you tell me, because you told me."

There's over 100 of us in this meat-suit. You'd think it runs like a ship, but it's more like a hundred and ten angry ghosts having an old-school QuakeWorld tournament, three people desperately trying to make sure the gamers don't go hungry or soil themselves, and the Facilities manager weeping in the corner as the garbage piles high.

Faust

Quote from: chaotic neutral observer on January 31, 2023, 12:14:55 AM
Quote from: Faust on January 30, 2023, 11:07:47 PM
They were wiped out, they just weren't fully extinguished
After you first said they were wiped out, you were surprised when when I told you the real population numbers.  But now you're doubling down, and pretending that "wiped out" means something other than "destroyed completely".  Or does "wiped out" have a different connotation in your dialect of English?  Maybe next time say "the population was devastated" instead.

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I was unaware of any previous reparations
Speaking of matters of which you are unaware would seem to be a problem.

Quote
I didnt think that the process could have dragged on that long so you have me there
Well, at least you admit to being in error in two out of three cases.

Quote
The bottom line is the Canadian government made a wholly inadequate token gesture and then had to be forced via legal means to meet its obligation, which I saw as a recent development based on the news story from last week.
That is arguably true.  Perhaps you understand why this is a sensitive issue domestically, and why misinformation might provoke a reaction?

You are right, I was wrong, this requires the record be set straight, an apology and some reparations

Yesterday we (a sleep deprived 40 year old who read a relevant news article recently) reported some information in error and wish to correct the record, we are happy to do so.

We stated that the colonizers of Canada wiped out all of the indigenous peoples. We would like to amend this statement to say
they eliminated merely most of them.

It was also stated that the Government of Canada had failed to address their role and history in these atrocities and had offered no restitution to the survivors of their atrocities.
This was false. The Canadanian Government has in fact offered an inexpensive apology and an insultingly low restitution of 27 Million in 2007 to be divided up amongst the 5% of their population who suffered under the systematic cultural and literal elimination of their peoples, before immediately embarking on a prolonged legal battle to avoid having to make any kind of realistic restitution which they grudgingly settled, some 16 years later.

We apologize for any misleading information above and offer 23c to be divided up amongst all those negatively impacted by these statements provided you can get it out of us in court.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Faust

#1137
Quote from: altered on January 31, 2023, 03:45:38 AM
I can kill it again.

But I won't, because I'm lazy and we deserve the hell we've made ourselves.
Anyone can kill PD, a slight breeze could kill PD. Its amazing the server is still online, we can only assume the truck in kazakstan it is sitting on still has it powered on while they examine the hard drive for any bitcoin Trix might have once stored there.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Alfred Little Moon Cx3

bitcoin more volatile than Rogers underwear drawer

hooplala

Quote from: Doktor Howl on January 31, 2023, 03:20:17 AM
It suddenly feels like PD is alive again.   :lulz:

Let's invite IANAR, Poptart, and the Outlandish One back for some real sidesplitting laughs
"Soon all of us will have special names" — Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." — Bob Dylan?

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"
— Walt Whitman