Rev Roger, Sermon 31: Shit Your Hate, or You Will DIE!

[Chaplin_Sinatra_Fonzarell]

While I concur with a great deal of Roger's commentary, one has to acknowledge a very ugly fact: The Greyfaces won decades ago, and it was groups such as the Hippies, Yippies, the violent revolutionaries, and yes, the Discordians, that allowed them to do so.

That's kind of a lame way of looking at things. You could just as easily say that the surrealists, Dadaists, modernists, Anarchists, Communists, and jazz and bebop hipsters of the 1920s through 40s "let" the Greyfaces win. Or the beats. Or that the German philosophers and Hermetic Occultists of the 19th century "let" the Greyfaces win, or that the Romantics, Enlightenment Philosophers, French and American revolutionaries, freemasons, and Illuminati of the 18th century let them win. (That's right, I'm calling the freemasons and Illuminati enemies of Greyface) Or that the Rennaisance thinkers let them win. Or that the Native Americans, Knights Templar, Assassins let them win. etc. There is an eternal struggle between the people who get it and the mediocre minds, really. Artistic and political "movements" are just our Aneristic brains organizing things needlessly into groups. No one '"let" Greyface win. You have just a chance of making the world a better place now as they did in the 60s. (Which, Turd would probably say, is zero.)

[LMNO]

I submit to you that many of you never intended to discuss those subjects to begin with.

This is interesting.

Suppose, like Quakers, we only posted when we had something to say on the Nature of Eris, or on an aspect of quantum psychology we needed clearing up, or a new approach to O:M.

These boards would be deader than dot org when the trolls go to sleep.

But further, I put it to you: Many of the "fluff" postings here are actualyy discordian/erisian training in non-linear thinking.

...where linear Aristotelian logic works with familiar associations or generalizations (called "Laws of Thought," of course, by those who have made Aristotle their Idol), Po thinking moves laterally with unfamiliar associations. Dr. de Bono claims that Po thinking unleashes creativity and measurably improves students' ability to solve unfamiliar problems.

Thinking in this way often leads to forms of logic such as Po which can be described as open-ended brainstorming for connections and new meanings. These in turn are intimately linked to the modern scientific approach called Systems Theory.

Of course, some Po thinking may lead to poetry or great surrealist paintings, instead of science. There is no guarantee as to where Po will land you, which is part of the justification for thinking it relates to that mystery we call 'creativity.'

This so-called "po" thinking is essentially trying to jam two supposedly unrelated topics together, and then seeing what comes out of it.  Such methods, like a decent burroughs cut-up, are not always coherent and successful, but new, fresh approaches to thinking often spring out of it.

I would propose that the non-sequitor "fluff" that goes on here is actually a crash-course in non-linear thinking, designed to help us stay "out of the box" and continue to think about things in new and creative ways.

So, there is my take on things: that the so-called "fluff" is in actuality, Erisian Esoterica designed to alter your perceptions of reality.


So there.

[Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy]

While I concur with a great deal of Roger's commentary, one has to acknowledge a very ugly fact: The Greyfaces won decades ago, and it was groups such as the Hippies, Yippies, the violent revolutionaries, and yes, the Discordians, that allowed them to do so.
<-----Giant snip----->
I submit to you that many of you never intended to discuss those subjects to begin with.

1  If the greyfaces had won, you wouldn't be able to write this stuff and neither would I.

2  Some of the best discussions here are from stuff people never intended to discuss.  Many topics start out as jokes and end up serious.  Some start out serious and end up silly.  Some start out not making any sense and end up sensible, no seriously.  Many are just people letting off steam.  A lot of them are in jokes that only a handful of people even really know that they are not about what they appear to be about but are really about something else but since they seem to be about the thing they are not about even that works for everyone.  Does that make more sense to you now?

[Chaplin_Sinatra_Fonzarell]

I submit to you that many of you never intended to discuss those subjects to begin with.

This is interesting.

Suppose, like Quakers, we only posted when we had something to say on the Nature of Eris, or on an aspect of quantum psychology we needed clearing up, or a new approach to O:M.

These boards would be deader than dot org when the trolls go to sleep.

But further, I put it to you: Many of the "fluff" postings here are actualyy discordian/erisian training in non-linear thinking.

...where linear Aristotelian logic works with familiar associations or generalizations (called "Laws of Thought," of course, by those who have made Aristotle their Idol), Po thinking moves laterally with unfamiliar associations. Dr. de Bono claims that Po thinking unleashes creativity and measurably improves students' ability to solve unfamiliar problems.

Thinking in this way often leads to forms of logic such as Po which can be described as open-ended brainstorming for connections and new meanings. These in turn are intimately linked to the modern scientific approach called Systems Theory.

Of course, some Po thinking may lead to poetry or great surrealist paintings, instead of science. There is no guarantee as to where Po will land you, which is part of the justification for thinking it relates to that mystery we call 'creativity.'

This so-called "po" thinking is essentially trying to jam two supposedly unrelated topics together, and then seeing what comes out of it.  Such methods, like a decent burroughs cut-up, are not always coherent and successful, but new, fresh approaches to thinking often spring out of it.

I would propose that the non-sequitor "fluff" that goes on here is actually a crash-course in non-linear thinking, designed to help us stay "out of the box" and continue to think about things in new and creative ways.

So, there is my take on things: that the so-called "fluff" is in actuality, Erisian Esoterica designed to alter your perceptions of reality.


So there.

YOU = WIN

[LMNO]

No, YUO!

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Brethren and Cistern, the time has come for The Good Reverend to renounce Discordianism as a failure...a rather silly failure, at that.  Nothing has been accomplished in two years of bullshit, "creative disorder" is a sad joke, and all the blog threads and imaginary bars  on the internet haven't saved you.

Too bad you feel that way. It is only the internet, though. You should know better. You have been around. I believe you have hung around Discordians in real life. You know some of us have lives and work and shit to do, so when many of us come online to post in forums we just want to blow off steam or relax, kick back, maybe even have a little fun. What have you yourself done in two years? I see you have written a few series of good articles and sermons. I believe you have also had some adventures of your own in the real world. It is sad that you reject creative disorder and yet still buy the bullshit line of destructive disorder. The joke of the PD idea is that creation and destruction are basically two sides of the same thing. Perhaps, due to all of the damned destruction caused by authoritarians and other fundamentalists, some of us have chosen to focus more on creative endeavors. So what? The world is the way it is and we each have to decide for ourselves what to do and what to live with doing. Why would anyone ever seek salvation on the internet? Or anywhere else for that matter? You want salvation, go to Jesus. That's His sales pitch and I hear that He is still offering it.

Face it, you're fucked, and you have nobody to blame but yourself.  Instead of using discordianism to disrupt - even for a few precious seconds - The Machine(tm), you have used it to play haiku games and to form factions.  The "commandment" that Discordians must stick apart has been warped out of usefulness.  You remembered the "apart" thing, but not the "stick" part, didn't you?

I agree with that in principle, usually if you are fucked, it was your choice. Or it is your choice to do something about it. Sometimes even complaining about being fucked is useful in clearing the air. Now Discordianism is not necessarily about disrupting the so-called Machine. Where is this machine? Who is a part of it? Did you not realize that the Machine allows for a certain level of disruption, to the point where even direct or indirect attempts to shut it down or mess it up, are still part and parcel of that Machine's operation. Every revolution is a part of the system it seeks to change or overthrow. That's why they almost always fail to deliver their promises.

Again, playing games is what humans do. It's some people's way of relaxing. Why relax? Because it is pleasurable. Even in the face of opposition, pressure, and obstacles, relaxation is the key to actually have the presence of mind to do something effective about it. Not everyone agrees that they should be a hard-ass about life. Remember, you came to a forum of Discordians.

You talk of the "stick" part of the "stick apart" phrase, but yet you yourself have also gone after and attacked certain Discordian or other posters. You lashed out against some of the younger people and tried to excuse that by saying that you were trying to get them to toughen up and stand up to you. And when they started doing so, you seemed to have decided that everyone now hates you. You actually don't realize how much respect many of us (including some of the younger ones you hated) held for you. If you lost that respect or goodwill, it was truly your own doing. If that was what you set out to do, so be it. Just remember that when you say you feel that Discordianism is a failure, many of us Discordians now feel that same way about you. It's too bad the bridges were burned, but you were the one who burned them. You have yourself to blame. Don't point your fingers at other people and blame them for the smell of shit in the air when you yourself contributed to that atmosphere.

Well, good.  You deserve every shitty thing that is coming down the pike.  The Grayfaces won, and you let them.  Personally, I think it's funny as hell.  Almost as funny as reading claims of magickl/psychic "powers".

See, what I mean? The Greyfaces didn't win. They may be a dangerous threat that we must eventually hope to vanquish. But did you really think the struggle would be won or even galvanized overnight, in an instant? Perhaps the Greyfaces will always be around. Perhaps the world is actually larger and more vast than what many of us assume. However if the world around you is nasty, see what you have done to contribute to that.

If you think it is funny as hell, then what is your gripe?

As for claims of magical powers, I don't recall any of the occultists of the bunch making any claims. Some tried to start discussions of things of that sort, and instead of being open and allowing for others to have an opinion that you disagree with, you simply attacked it without any forethought. Some people don't see magic or any of that sort and so they try to say that their own version of reality is the way it works. Arguments against magic towards occultists are about as useless as a colorblind person trying to argue that the ability to see vivid color is just a delusion with those who see full spectrums.

And in your anti-magical stance, you are truly the kettle calling the pot black. Stop lying already.

What's that you say?  "Fuck you, Roger"?  Yeah, I am perfectly well aware that some of you hate my guts these days.  GOOD.  If you LIKED me, I'd re-evaluate the way I am living my life.  The LAST thing I need is "friends" who think that "Three Word Game" or "What are you eating" is a worthy use of your time.

If people say "Fuck you, Roger" it's because you have been asking for it. Over and over again. And so what if they do? You do the same. No one actually hates you. People just got sick of the sniping and the trolling and the shit-slinging. You claim to have considered some of us friends, and yet you threw shit our way too. Then when we object you come off as if we are being shitty with you. You need to check your own attitude. If you don't like "friends" who simply wish to relax while online, that's fine. Go join one of the socialist or anarchist groups and go off and plot your disruption of the machine elsewhere. This is the cynical generation. We have heard all of those "fight the machine" and "fight the power" statements so many times it makes us just want to change the channel. We are not stupid. We see what it does. The plotting and scheming the overthrow of society or the machine or whatever your chosen enemy is does absolutely nothing. Not a goddamned thing.

Time is for more than being merely "used." You think we should be "more productive"? Join a political party or a cause or something with your free time. Some of us come to the forums on our free time, and the last thing we care about is being productive. We simply want to engage with other people who may be open minded about certain things. And sometimes we just want to screw around and play word games and all that. Would you rather have us watch television? Also, many of us work hard and have relatives, children, and obligations out in the real world. So what if we don't do what you think we should? We also don't live in the same paranoia that you live in.

It was cool to read your sermons about "getting off of our asses" and all that. And many of us, despite what you think, took notice and acted accordingly. So what if it wasn't what you wanted any of us to do? Who really cares? If you could care less, what are you getting on about here?

Hell, at least Bella had the GUTS to SHIT HER HATE, even if she did so for the very goofiest of reasons.  She has my respect for that, though never again will she have my friendship (assuming she wanted it, which she has made very clear she doesn't).

Many of us also did "shit our hate." I did so on numerous occasions but you thought I was just joking around or something. Yes I was half joking, as in everything else I do around here. But the point is you didn't get it when I responded to your angsty posts. It didn't bother me because I thought you were intelligent and all that. I still think you are intelligent.

You complain about people forming factions and all that, but it was okay when you yourself tried to do so? Or did you forget your own behavior here? Yes some of us are actually friends in the real world as well as on here. You should have known that. You were a part of it. You should also know that I don't just sit there and do nothing when people attack and plot and scheme against my friends. Bella is a good friend and what you did was wrong. So yes, you fell out with more of us than you thought when you got shitty with her. And don't try to play the innocent act. You know who we are and you know why we were upset.

What about the rest of you?  What have YOU done?  One of you played fuckaround behind the scenes with moderator/admin abilities.  Whoopie ding fuck for you.  Aren't you special?  What have you accomplished, save to further fracture an already useless group?  ...Well, you got rid of ME, and I guess that should count for something.

I assume you talk about myself and both the aini and cat maxwell incidents, which you didn't seem to have a problem with before when it was happening. Anyway, if you are also referring to the Turd situation, I was online and saw it happen. Another mod was on at that time and witnessed the same. I also know about who did what with whose account. You guys think you can just screw around and then try to pass it off as something either I, or any other mod, did? I'll tell you something, as you and everyone else here on these forums should know if they don't by now: When I fuck around and change a post or move or delete something, usually it is so clear to most others around here, that they can see it was me. I don't do anything underhanded or under the table. There are those who can vouch for me, though it is not necessary.

As for getting rid of you. Who wanted to get rid of you, but you yourself. So what if some people had enough of your being an asshole and of going after certain people? You brought the way people now feel about you upon yourself. What? Are we supposed to cry "No! Roger! Don't leave us!" Are you nuts? (Don't answer that. It's pointless.) How many times did you actually threaten to leave and all that? You got all hissy because you didn't like the way things were going around here. Then you complained and whined because I had to put on clamp down on ass-hat behaviors on another forum. You said I was becoming another Trollax. What? Because people complained to me about assholes and I warned them to stop being pricks. And then banned them because they kept it up? That's called doing what I should have been doing all along. You can call me a fascist or whatever you want, but you seem to be the most vehement whenever someone expresses an opinion or does something you don't like. As if you have all the answers and we should just all listen to you.

That's about it, isn't it?  Sure, the rest of you chose grand titles for yourself, created fictitious armies, and TALKED about smiting the Grays...but that's all you did...talk.  Hell, some of you didn't even do THAT.  Listen up, you Goddamn monkeys...Discord isn't about hiding from the world, it's about giving the world a fucking rupture!

Discord isn't what you think. You can try to define it and then dogmatically insist that we all agree with you, but it doesn't change the fact that no one in the Discordian Society needs to agree with anyone else. How would you know what people are doing about the Grays anyway? Remember the "don't blab" policy? Especially since nothing is really private on here anyway. No one really gives a shit anyway. What? Are you supposed to be some teacher or great wise man and we all have to do things to your approval? Do you even know about us Discordians? It seems like you had a lot of preconceptions and prejudices about us and this whole "two years" of whatever you wanted to call it was just an excuse for you to confirm your smug notions. That's okay. The hammer drops just the same, remember? Who cares about giving the world a fucking rupture? Every piss-ant authoritarian has done or tried to do the same thing. Why should we choose to inflict our shit onto the world? What would that really do? Why fuck it up and make it worse? It's not like some of us believe in heaven or anything. So if we want our lives to be useful or better, what good or use is causing a big rupture? Or do you like the idea that we should go around and destroy, rape, maim, and kill because that is "discord"? You want to do that shit, join the armed services, or Bin Laden's group. They are still taking applicants, so I hear.

Wake up and smell the sodium pentathol, shitheads.  Posting stupid shit about face raping bats and goats is not only useless, it's not even original.  Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, you fucking moonbats...cribbing style is one thing, running it into the fucking ground is quite another.

You smell sodium pentathol? You got problems. It is a shame that the CIA fucked with your head like that. You want originality, go watch MTV. Then you can still assure yourself that you are so much more wise and more smug than all of these so-called stupid people and the kids and the other Damned Things who will not fit into your slots. Remember one thing though, even if you forget the rest of this: If you think you are above or apart from the herd, it is because you are the herd.

Running things into the ground is what we do here. You did it with Chef. You did it with your complaints about how no one is doing a bobdamned thing to rupture or mess up the machine. But oh wait, you said it was hopeless anyway so why bother? Your mind is scrambled eggs and we don't care about your damned omelets anymore. You're not even funny anymore.

It's stupid shit when we post stuff like that. But it's cool when you do it? Or wait...it's actually doing something to disrupt the machine when you post stupid shit and spam. Oh, I forgot about that. Thanks for clearing that one up. I was surely vexed on that issue. Heh.

Just looking at PD.com PISSES ME OFF.  I'd sic the troll army on your sorry asses, and end this fucking farce once and for all, but I promised someone I wouldn't.  The Good Reverend may do all sorts of shitty things, but breaking promises isn't one of them.  Pity.

Too bad you're pissed. That's your fault. Don't shit a stank turd and then complain about the smell of your own colon by saying it's our fault. It's good of you to keep your promises. I keep mine. Many of us do. But so what? That's only expected.

As to the troll army and all that. Who are you to think that these forums are here to please you. What are we supposed to crawl on our bellies and beg for forgiveness for something that you contributed to and yet now don't like the flak? You call it a farce, yet you spent two years here. You liked it when you had an audience but now you hate it that the audience has proved itself independent of your desires and ideas. That's the way the world is. Perhaps you need to remember that you are not a little baby. We are not here to cater to your every whim and urge. No one is here to do that for anyone else. Hell, at least babies have an excuse for crying and being demanding.

So, in the words of St Kid the Rock, Fuck all y'all.  I'm returning to my Subgenius roots, and may you all enjoy the upcoming years of shame, failure, and degradation that you have earned so richly.  May the whirlwind that is surely coming sweep you up, and destroy you all.

Me?  I think I've made my point.  Now I'm going to fucking Disneyland.

Or Kill Me.

Good for you. May you realize your errors and return to your root irreligion a better and more wise person for it. As for our "years of shame, failure, and degradation" not all of us will live the same you way you did. So stop assuming that all the shit you have gone through is what's in store for everyone else. Up to this point, I thought you knew how to do that. You were an elder after all. But after all of this, I can see clearly that age has nothing to do with mentality. You can spend the rest of your days repeating the same mistakes and doing the same sort of things to try to disrupt the machine or whatever. But beating a cinderblock wall with your bare hands only gets them bloodied, no matter how many times you fool yourself into thinking "if only."

You remind me of someone who made a career of sneering down at the herd. Someone who wanted to revolt against the so-called tyranny of the masses. Someone who took on the persona of the most celebrated and despised rebel in Western history for the last two-thousand years. You know who this person is? Anton Lavey (or Tony Levy as he was known before). He founded the Church of Satan and gathered around him all of the so-called brightest and best. No one ever stayed with him in his church, however because Senior Lavey was always sneering. (Being the fascist prick he was.) You remind me of him because he too wrote some intelligent and thought provoking articles, despite his whole Satanic kick (which bothered and bothers me little since I was a part of the thrash and death metal generation). Perhaps you should think about making a career of your sneering like Lavey did. Hell, it worked for him and people who like what he said. He had a marketable product. He did not die a poor or forgotten man.

I suggest you look into the career of Lavey, because of the similiarities between your thought and his. Forget about all that Satanic junk. That was just the trappings. You both are dualists, like most people in this society. And like Lavey, you seem to have the guts to make something of your dualistic thoughts. As for some of the rest of us, we don't buy the dualistic line of thinking (Us against Them, good against light, male against female, science against myth, matter against spirit, etc.) because we are that much more removed from the influence of Christianity. It could be a generational thing. It could be that some of us were actually raised among Pagans or Buddhists or some of the other non-dualist milieus. (I don't know about myself, I was raised in a half-assimilated Celtic context so maybe that's what ruined the whole "Us against the Herd" for me.)

Maybe my diagnosing you with dualism is wrong. But it is the best one, and you can do just like Lavey or even the New Age gurus. (Hell, you could get into the Christianity/Satanism stick, I hear they are looking for some more leaders. Think about it. You could have the attention from rapt audiences around the country.) It is a good and lucrative game to get in on, especially for those of your age range. You should think about it and give it a try. You should have known better about the Discordians. The Discordian Society was sort of the mother of the ambiguity, chaotic, feminine, dark, and crazy that exists in the rapidly expanding Neo-Pagan culture. (Whether the Pagans want to admit it or not.) Something like that isn't pinned down so easily. You tried, as have many others. And failed. No big deal. Don't take it personally. Consider it Discordianism's own built in mechanisms for selection. Besides, you can pick and choose from any other group or religion or culture or whatever. You may still get my respect if you can remain a heretic, even of your own crap. But who cares?

Don't worry about us. Your imprecations return to you even at the moment you write or speak them.

At least now you know that you can cut the crap around people who couldn't give a shit about it. I salute you. And remember that any foul luck you get in the future was probably your own doing. I would salute you with a blessing from Eris, but I am not that malicious. And I, as I said above, I keep my promises too.

As my ancestors and family used to say (though traditionally for a different reason): "Go mbeidh s?© ag imeacht ina chnocaibh agus ag teacht ??na shl?©ibhtibh, agus ba ?? leat go dtachtfadh s?© m?©, agus mo chreach fhada n??or bhaol dom."

August 1st, 2005


Notice: This response using insertion of quote cut-ups is protected by Fair Use Laws in all 50 states.

[East Coast Hustle]

you must get so tired of responding to these constant assaults on your precious integrity, Hugh. I bet it really interferes with your REAL LIFE(tm). why don't you just save yourself the trouble and apologize to those whom you owe apologies to?

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

you must get so tired of responding to these constant assaults on your precious integrity, Hugh. I bet it really interferes with your REAL LIFE(tm). why don't you just save yourself the trouble and apologize to those whom you owe apologies to?

Heh. Oh yeah, it interferes with my Real Life. Sure it does. And if you actually believe that, I have some bottled air to sell you too. A response like that only takes about a few minutes, because I actually read the fricken post in its entirety (which took about another few minutes.)

[The Open Bar]

imaginary bars  

well, that's news to me.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It is sad that you reject creative disorder and yet still buy the bullshit line of destructive disorder.

You want salvation, go to Jesus. That's His sales pitch and I hear that He is still offering it.

Notice: This response using insertion of quote cut-ups is protected by Fair Use Laws in all 50 states.

1.  It's my nature.

2.  No, I just want to break shit.  Problem is, there is too much to break all by myself, and all the other "freaks" want to do is post on blog threads about what they ate/wore/drank/smoked/fucked.

3.  Not in the way you did it, but I'm not going to push the issue.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

What're you still doing here, Rev?  I thought you flounced.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What're you still doing here, Rev?

None of your fucking business.

If I wanted you to know, I'd have told you.

Now, fuck off.

TGRR,
Is getting the hang of this.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think he's just sad that not enough people were opting to kill him.

Is he really gone now?  About time.  He'd been threatening to go for months.

Blow me.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

See quote in Bella's sig.

Thank you and good point, Agent C.

Please also see quote in Zorga's sig.

And your opinion is valuable because...?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

i am a failure

Thank you, captain newsflash.