Rant 153: Freedom?

[Dags]

Rant 153
Freedom?

Dags reply to Rant 153 Freedom?

Answers. Commentary and Other Miscellaneous Bullshit I Came Up While Reading Your Rant

"Stop cowering in the corners of life, hiding behind your ego armor and constricting your heart with your narrow minded clinging."
-The White Mouse

No idea what is meant by that? Anyone get if that's supposed to mean anything?

Don't hide in the narrow restrictions of your bowels. Let yourself come out wide open with all the noise you can muster and smell? Yes! Make your presence be not only heard LOUDLY but be a flavor that can be savored PROUDLY??? Or something...? Like that... Don't hold it IN let it OUT.

"We may idealize freedom, but when it comes to our habits, we are completely enslaved."
-Sogyal Rinpoche

No not really.... I'd say when defining freedom is easier to say what ITS nNOT, than to say what IT IS.  Ambiguous freedom? Yeah I think so. A habit is not slavery. Hell slavery isn't even slavery. Shit what constitutes slavery these days? Watching re-runs....

"Sometimes even when the cell door is flung open, the prisoner chooses not to escape."
-Sogyal Rinpoche

Ah.... The illusion of choice when the training for a particular choice hasn't entered teh mind of the one presumed to have a choice available to them. Yeah. I agree except that the assumption in that case would be false. The prisoner cannot make the choice to escape, although escape seems ambigous instead of saying move to a larger cell without the visible iron bars.-heh j/k

In this vast cult of delusion followed fervently by most individuals of our global village we never imagine that all of our chasing after things, ideas, and experiences is leading us away from becoming free. We think of ourselves so wise and skeptical as we seek out those phenomena that we have been trained to think will make us happy and "real," forever accepted by ourselves and others as successful. But nothing lasts forever. We all know this, not intellectually, but instinctually, and that is why we become both expert adepts at our own denial and expert enablers of others' denial. We may think or say that we shouldn't think about the inherent impermanence of everything including ourselves, because that is morbid and it may bring us more fear. But in our denial of this, we merely express our great gnawing fear of the reality. We rush about in our impressive busy laziness, filling our lives with projects, schemes, plans, people, ideas, religions, experiences, rituals, chores, and anything we could find that could help us remain distracted. We hope that by this distraction that we can escape and finally reach some place in our lives where we will finally have everything we want and finally have pushed out everything about life that we don't want. And in this deception, we add more bricks to the walls that keep us limited, narrow minded, and enslaved. Just because the prison guard is our own delusion, does not mean we are any less enslaved than if the guard was someone else. The mental and emotional chains are always the hardest to break because we have been so skillfully trained to not see such things as having any reality.

Where does desire come from? Where does want come from? The source namely our biology, our genetics, our situations, stations. Ah....

You mention training. This is the correct answer. Because a person cannot rise above their training. If I knew then what I know now....

But getting to know and befriending the impermanence of everything is the key that unlocks the cell of our lives. Every time we see a sunrise or we adore a lover or when we find ourselves not being able to stop laughing, we get a glimpse of this freedom. The question is how do we overcome the inculcation, the teachings, and the distractions of the cult of delusion so that we can learn to realize our freedom....Not on some abstract philosophical level. Not on some imagined higher spiritual or astral plane, but in the here and now, the present moment, within our very lives as we are living them now, standing on the ground. As long as we are asleep at the wheel of our lives and follow distractions without ever looking within at our motivations or intentions or even what or who we really are as opposed to what or who we are used to telling ourselves, we can't see it. So we devise all sorts of speculations and theories that we accept since they sound so hard core or true or realistic. But if we are not even adept at getting off from the treadmill of distractions and the pulling puppet-strings of manipulated desires (as exists in our current economy), how can we stand there and assert anything about the reality of anything else?

Well again that's the thing isn't it. Where does one learn about that which allows one to see the wheel they are turning. What lifts the fog from the clouded mind. Other clouded minds? Unlikely.

And herein is why looking within is the most potent powder keg flashes of mindfucking. Many people often think that looking within means avoiding the world and focusing on one's own mind and spirit...a sort of abandonment of reality. But they misunderstand. Looking within in those sorts of ways are an avoidance of reality or an attempt to escape responsibility. But there is another more profound looking within, which is not self-focused. It looks within because it is beyond mere cataloging mental perceptions, thoughts and feelings. It looks within to find out exactly what is doing the perceiving, thinking, and feeling. Where the hell are all these things coming from? They are coming from the same sort of processes that give rise to everything else in the universe that exists. There is no difference, though we often like to think so. This sort of looking within confronts and understands impermanence, no matter how frightening. This sort of looking within combined with looking without gives rise to more and more glimpses of what it is like to live with awareness as the center of your being. This gives rise to more and more choices and options in places you never even imagined. This sort of insight can lead you to the realization of where you really stand in relation to other beings and phenomena. Without that relation, you would not exist. And since everything changes and there is ultimately no stable and solid enduring self for you to retreat into and try to hide from the world, you can begin to develop a way of life that is free.

I don't know man. You think there is a free will? Do you? If a person could come about to a definition of free will that is consistant or has some way of being validated. Looking within to change. Hmm.....

External influence shapes the world, train them in the way they should go, they won't depart from it. Because there is no choice. In this consideration. The educators of the world are trained in the education of educating. Formally or informally...

Freedom is one of our deepest instincts, though we are mostly trained by cultures and religions to run away from that freedom...We are trained almost to the point where we feel our instinct is to run from freedom. But the only thing happening here is that our fear has been manipulated either by others or by ourselves. (You didn't think that it was possible for beings to be so tyrannical that they manipulate themselves, did you? Think about it for a while and you will see they are all around you.) Did you ever stop to think about what could happen if you learned to see past the neurotic "convictions" of your own limitations? Our society says that we are free and celebrates our supposed individual liberty yet treats us and trains us to be obsessed only with power, sex, wealth, and everything else it wants us to buy into and sell while it distracts us from contact with the flavor of life and death. It teaches us to try to refine our desire-getting skills while pulling the wool over our eyes about the nature of those desires. And so we find ourselves thinking "if only I had this/that" sort of thoughts. Or we find ourselves trying so hard to grasp at the mercurial mirage of security and endless comfort. Sometimes we even find spiritual-sounding excuses to maintain this stupidity. We say that our endless jumping or running around looking for the next and latest or better thing to satisfy ourselves is the practice of non-attachment, but that is because we are denying the slavery we have fallen into.

Alright that's just weird... Since I thought first to just reply as I went along reading this and that's just odd.

Although I'd like to say that delusion or at least accepting the "illusion" reality that your senses present to you. ie; That you construct. For more see Epistemological Constructivism; though I don't agree with some elaborations of constructivism, many tenets of it I find merit in.

More at as I said back a ways to some other that the idea should be more at " using " the illusion verses " denying " that reality is outside of our current understanding, and probable even though we have chipped away at it more and more using the scientific method of testing reality " black box " knowlege aquisition of facts and data about our reality. We will to some extent always manipulate the data in the gathering process or shit something like that.

Maybe simplier to say reality is like a " black box " we put something in and getting something back out of it. Yet we can't fully concieve / understand the presence of the box. Well yeah.... something like that.

We think we need not reflect too much on our lives, since we either believe we are eternal beings who deserve to live forever, or we think that there is no meaning to existence and therefore nothing matters. But these two twin poles are simply the symptoms of a creeping fundamentalism that underpins our choices in maintaining our outlooks. Neither of them are correct. Neither of them get to the heart of the matter. And both of them contribute to our anxiety and the existential angst we often deny is there, just under the surface goading us into making all the stupid and endlessly repeated mistakes we have ever made. Is there a way out? I wouldn't have written this if there was not.

Cognitive distortions lead to distorted cognitions.-heh If you say that next I'td be pretty fucking funny...

To start with, paradoxically, one must come to the conclusion that there is no escape from your life. You must learn to deal with the whole show, in all of its pretty and ugly aspects, with all of the things you like, dislike, or feel nothing for. All of this is your life, and without any of them, you would not be who you are. Starting from the idea of "no escape" or "no exit," you can then learn to get to know yourself, your life, and this thing called reality that many people often talk about in cutie-wise fashions. Sure you know about your feelings, thoughts, body sensations, thrills, boredom, spirituality, identity scripts and assemblage points. But what underpins them all? You may be exist because you think, but what is that mind that thinks? Who is this person that feels? How did you get to be the sort of person who claims to be yearning for freedom yet finds that such a difficulty that you many times feel it to be impossible? Don't answer the questions. They are not Socratic questions. They are simply calls for reflection, because intellectualizing about this sort of thing only leads to more distraction. Your possibility of freedom is already an inherent part of being alive. You simply need to learn how to embody it.

Reflection! Yeah. Stare at the man in the mirror. Not the kid that used to ride his bike all day and mow lawns for candy and soda money on Saturdays. Yeah. That was a cool kid. Gone now replaced by an really older looking kid.

I don't know man. The other day I posted something that won't be read by many folks if any... Kind'uv like this since this post will appear too long to bear for many folks but I thought maybe you would read it and comment on it or not.

Anyways I said " Who are you " Now I suppose the short question by none other making the airwaves many times by none other than " The who " which makes me think of the whos from whoville and dr. seuss. Well anyways that's the question and if someone can't tell you who they are; then well; What the fuck?

I leave you with a Buddhist reflection called "the four faults" to think about for the next time you find yourselves swimming in a sea of delusion and have started losing the ability to distinguish between what may be reality and what is the bullshit that is collecting in your perception. Why does complete liberation seem like such an outlandish and impossible idea? Because it is too close to be recognized. It is too profound for us to fathom. It is too easy for us to believe. And it is too wonderful for us to accommodate, especially in our cynical and world weary mindsets in this post-modern era where we are taught that fundamentalist skepticism is the pinnacle of intelligence.

Ah.. there you go. Bullshit! Yeah it's great isn't it?

I wrote this just the other day to a non-audience of not too many. Check it.

from fuckitall/

Post subject: o b s e r v a t i o n  
 
not to go into what observation means but the old addage of the guy that watched the lid lift from the water boiling in the pot then went on to invent the steam engine, and all that. from a simple act of observation.

well this might not have anything at all to do with that; but! of all these different philosophy styles and such out and about styles of thought of life of living; seems most began with a nihilistic journey; a zen sort of trip.

a visit to the abyss; down the rabbit hole sort of thing. take the trip....

i give no link; because i wouldn't want any credit for what fun can be had in finding it for yourself. Don't dare fucking say I told you to question everything. Matter of fact don't start with nihilism; go further down than that; stare at the stranger in the mirror.

who are you....

Its mandatory to those that haven't done it. Mandatory! Get going...

Plus I could be bullshitting you; do you know how to tell if your being bullshitted. First you have to realize it's all bullshit.

Pick the kind smells best to you. Take a big whiff.... ah....

I wrote this for you....

I owe it all to become my brothers keeper....

Why am I still typing....

Some people never learn-heh

- d r i f t

this took about 5 minutes to compost. disagree?
less than a minute to read.

NRN  

Stay tuned for more rants.

January 6th, 2006 / Chaos 6th, 3172

-Irreverend Death to Poultry, KSC
"What if when you try to kill the Buddha, She kicks your ass instead and leaves you there shredded and bleeding, yet laughing?"

[/quote]

Yeah as if I had a choice/ what a loaded word that is/ isn't it. Keep 'em coming man. I thought yeah drop in and check out rants for one of them long rants / more at essays. Have you had training btw. I mean college, philosophy / a structured course in philosophy, rhetoric, logic, etcetera....

Just wondering. I'm thinking of going to college if they allow hicks like myself through the admission screening out process that is? I mean going back to fifth grade would probably keep me from doing it. Anyways maybe another time.

I in no way expect any sort of similiar reply in return btw.-heh Actually none but I'll read it if your in the writing mood then. Alright then. That was unexpected. I mean this and thats it for now.

- Dags

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Heh.

Training? Lots.

Now I am mostly an Erisian Counterevangelist and All Around No Good Shit.

[Dags]

Well you did invite me to stick around a while way back whenever I trailed into this forum from wherever. I got a little more to add to that thought on choice. For the training part of it; It seems simple enough that folks don't exceed their training in some respects maybe it's counterintuitive though some are trained to go beyond what they've been taught. So... Maybe not so simple. Anyways....

Let me get this idea down in writing while I'm thinking about it. Heres the thought regarding the ability to make choices; one instead of the other and so forth. If for example no choice truly exist. Strict determinism. Then the illusion of choice is still significant; for happiness. Now. These are two different ideas the illusion of choice and the reality of not having one.

On one side is the illusion of an outlook abiding a ; Scoop up all the happiness you can fit into your bucket; hitch your wagon to a star; thoughts it can produce irregardless of the situational train coming down the tracks or not. Independent // More of an attitude or awareness to make the best of it.

Verses the fact of the matter where it doesn't really matter because everyone is locked into their own snares or gifted with a life that will be and remain free of them; or somewhere in between or outside on either side of that.

Bill Hicks says he only deals in facts and that's why he was such a cocky bastard; well he did. So that's in a sense his philosophy wound up into one short phrase... yet he allows for his mind to juxtapose an make the best of it attitude in his motto. Enjoy the ride.

Now why did I type this. I thought I knew; but what difference would it make if I know whether or not I have chosen to write it; whether I did or not. Maybe some Shakespeare or Mark Twain shit would probably be fitting and many wouldn't get it.-heh So I went with Bill Hicks. So either way just wanted to write it out real quick. Alright then.

- Dags

[LHX]

too bad hicks never enjoyed the ride



LHX - knows when people are trying to convince themselves of something

i shed a tear for hicks

it always seems to be easier said than done

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Hey Dags, here's a question for you.

Would it really matter to you in the long run whether free-will is an illusion?

[Dags]

Hey Dags, here's a question for you.

Would it really matter to you in the long run whether free-will is an illusion?

I'd rather know the truth; Even knowing; from my experience it seems the mind has a way of buffering the truth so it doesn't all come crashing in at once; if it's not stopped short by dissonance to begin with. So even if it took years of looking at it; eventually yeah! I rather know the truth about it.

I already think free-will is an illusion; however; so I don't think I'm choosing even though I'm making choices all the time. Now that contradiction hinges on an understanding that you can't really escape the illusion; even when you understand it. At least not and maintain what is commonly referred to as mental health.-heh

I guess an example of that would be sort of along the lines of where someone leaving christianity for example; might expect to become evil; because the training (programming, indoctrination) teaches such; yet it never happens! If anything changes at all it's more likely you'll become much less of an asshole to others; not just like you. Well except maybe rabid foaming at the mouth christians.-heh Online. In person; ? Maybe not so much. Atheist aren't exactly filling the prisons around here; anyways. Not that I'm making that argument just saying. All a part of the programming....

I was saying something in my response about how I can't seem to get a good working definition of free-will that is consistant.

The problem being that free-will is choices left up to the individual to decide for themselves. Sort of along the lines of freedom, and freedom of choice, etcetera. So what choices come from other than a persons inclinations, desires, etcetera... that they are born into and/or from their experiences and such...

Seems a paradox or contradiction that even knowing you have no choice; deterministic or materialitic worldview; still can't really escape thinking that you are deciding this or that or the other. Problematic is the decline towards a fatalistic worldview.

So no man. It wouldn't surprise me if free-will is an illusion since I already think so; what would surprise me is that if free-will is not a delusion; maybe I should have called it that.  

As far as thinking you simply have a choice when looking at some menu at a restruant and what have you. No real way to decern whether your making the choices yourself or not? Well more than likely because of your taste, likes, dislikes, and the million other operations your neurons fire off up in your head, what difference does it make?

When it comes to things like just being able to really believe or in the sense of free-willers believing in more or less "dead beliefs" in the sense of William James philosophy; I'd say no. Choices such as that I can't see possible without some real mindfuckery.-heh How'd I get into this...

Exactly. So what do you think? Can folks really choose choices apart from their biochemistry, etcetera....

Also, came back to edit(add) a little here and there. Freedom to follow your inclinations; interest; etcetera fit into the schema of determinism; because these things are caused; follow a causal link. I can't really say even though I've read what I've read on free-will; I still don't see how it's viewed where a person can choose to believe in what is viewed as absurd; automatically; or beyond what they've learned or have any knowledge of.

Another thing; If a person becomes inclined to accept an idea; their whole worldview can change; the impossible becomes possible for them, so to speak. But these things come from outside influences and from within; almost as the separation between what a person thinks of when they think of " who they are " is really on thin ice. Because when you think of yourself, or do any self evaluation who's that "extra person" doing those things and where did they come from. That's another story altogether I suppose.

Man you know. I just felt like talking (typing,writing) about this here thing  today. Can you tell?-heh Glad you asked.

- Dags

[Schizzy]

Well, yeah, I think people really can choose as part of their biochemistry.  At least I can.  It's kind of a paradox.  I made paradox into a fundamental religion at one time.  It still is my religion.  You're free to choose while I chain you up in my mental meanderings.  Be like me.  I'm free-drug.

[Dags]

I've got to admit that almost none of what I said in that reply above
makes much sense to me; at all.... But it was a good time just the same.-
heh  

Let me make this really simple; for myself if for nothing else.

Here's the paradox of the free-will / deterministic argument (debate)
philosophy or whatever it is. It has to do with that which is considered a
choice and that which is actually done.

Free-Will as I see it is basically this;

>Future Tense - I can choose to do many different things in the future.
>Present Tense - I have chosen to do this right now.
>Past Tense - I cannot change what I have done.

I'm thinking that would look fairly reasonable to most people.

Determinism as I see it is basically this;
>At all times future, present and past - I cannot change what I will do,
what I do now, and what I have done.

Also; more of a further point because this usually leads to matters of
responsibility.

>I am responsible for all that I do; no one lives my life or dies my death
but me.

So freedom to me is another one of those loaded words too. Like free-will
and nothing; infinity; and God.

In the sense of freedom to choose that is; Not sure I'm even bothering
with the incarceration or even on why I would not look up how to spell it.-
heh

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like I said earlier when I was trying to keep it simple;

If for example no choice truly exist. Strict determinism. Then the
illusion of choice is still significant; for happiness. Now. These are two
different ideas the illusion of choice and the reality of not having one.

Where the past cannot be altered; then the future and present cannot be
altered; and so no choice exist.

Yet in accepting that as truth the consequence becomes fatalism. Where
our present and future actions cannot change anything.


I disagree and say that our present and future actions are fixed; yet the
outcome and the lives of individual humans is affected in many ways,
changed, by the actions and future actions for each person.

- Dags

[LMNO]

Let,Äôs bastardize Pascal,Äôs Wager:

Say you act as Free Will exists.  You make your choices, take responsibility, learn to control your life, and shape it the way you please.  It,Äôs hard work, but it makes you happy.

At the end of your life, in some mythical/mystical hypothetical situation, you find out that everything was predetermined.  You may feel like a chump, but at least you were happy.

On the other hand, say you act as if everything is Predestined.  Nothing is actually your fault, all your problems were ,Äúmeant to be,Äù, and resistance to the will of Predestination is futile.  

At the end of your life, in some mythical/mystical hypothetical situation, you find out that Free Will exists.  Now you,Äôre depressed and a sucker, because any problem you had was completely able to be avoided and/or overcome.

So you may as well act as if Free Will exists, because any other choice is a sucker,Äôs game.





Personally, I think that Free Will as a concept exists (,ÄúNothing is true; Everything is permitted,,Äù Hassan I Sabbah), but I also think that almost every human has too many self-imposed mental structures to act on it, and most people have physiological and psychological habits so ingrained upon them that they become entirely predictable.

[LHX]

Let,Äôs bastardize Pascal,Äôs Wager:

Say you act as Free Will exists.  You make your choices, take responsibility, learn to control your life, and shape it the way you please.  It,Äôs hard work, but it makes you happy.

At the end of your life, in some mythical/mystical hypothetical situation, you find out that everything was predetermined.  You may feel like a chump, but at least you were happy.

On the other hand, say you act as if everything is Predestined.  Nothing is actually your fault, all your problems were ,Äúmeant to be,Äù, and resistance to the will of Predestination is futile.  

At the end of your life, in some mythical/mystical hypothetical situation, you find out that Free Will exists.  Now you,Äôre depressed and a sucker, because any problem you had was completely able to be avoided and/or overcome.

So you may as well act as if Free Will exists, because any other choice is a sucker,Äôs game.





Personally, I think that Free Will as a concept exists (,ÄúNothing is true; Everything is permitted,,Äù Hassan I Sabbah), but I also think that almost every human has too many self-imposed mental structures to act on it, and most people have physiological and psychological habits so ingrained upon them that they become entirely predictable.

this is another big topic

i have found that free will only exists as temptation and a way to lead yourself to self-punishment

everything is permitted
but
everything also has its repercussions


mental structures had to be learned first in order to be self-imposed

kids dont come wired the same way a computer processor does

they learn to be predictable




respect due for mentioning death in this discussion
because the free will question and some sort of understanding of death must go hand-in-hand

[LHX]

Personally, I think that Free Will as a concept exists (,ÄúNothing is true; Everything is permitted,,Äù Hassan I Sabbah), but I also think that almost every human has too many self-imposed mental structures to act on it, and most people have physiological and psychological habits so ingrained upon them that they become entirely predictable.

upon re-read - this is really good



ignorance is an epidemic
it has many sources
and
it perpetuates itself

[LMNO]

this is another big topic

i have found that free will only exists as temptation and a way to lead yourself to self-punishment

Only?  What about thinking for yourself?  Isn't that Free Will as well?

everything is permitted
but
everything also has its repercussions

Well, yeah.  everything is permitted, including repercussions, revenge, and no one liking you because of what you did.  It's not consequence-free action.  It's not "everything is permitted, so go ahead and be an asshole."  As the woman said, everything is everything.  Your actions, their actions, the impersonal forces of the universe... everything.

mental structures had to be learned first in order to be self-imposed

kids dont come wired the same way a computer processor does

they learn to be predictable

Agreed.  Everyone does.  You can't go through life as a blank slate.  Things get learned.  Where the process breaks down seems to be where assumptions are made, acted upon, and not questioned.  When the questioning stops, the action tends to become rote, stagnant.  Sometimes people are tought not to be curious; sometimes, they're just lazy.

respect due for mentioning death in this discussion
because the free will question and some sort of understanding of death must go hand-in-hand

Why?

[LHX]

this is another big topic

i have found that free will only exists as temptation and a way to lead yourself to self-punishment

Only?  What about thinking for yourself?  Isn't that Free Will as well?

i guess that depends on whether or not you notice a pattern in things

if you subscribe to 'as above so below' - you have 'free will' to follow the pattern

if you dont subscribe to that theory
then
i guess you have found some other definition
or
are still searching for something

everything is permitted
but
everything also has its repercussions

Well, yeah.  everything is permitted, including repercussions, revenge, and no one liking you because of what you did.  It's not consequence-free action.  It's not "everything is permitted, so go ahead and be an asshole."  As the woman said, everything is everything.  Your actions, their actions, the impersonal forces of the universe... everything.

true
but
on first glance for most

it can look an awful lot like 'everything is permitted so be an asshole'

like when the wizard took off and mickey opened up the spell book
- that line of thinking can lead to a ass-whupping

alternatively - it could also just be a dramatic way to learn some lessons

respect due for mentioning death in this discussion
because the free will question and some sort of understanding of death must go hand-in-hand

Why?

death seems to be the only thing that causes people who take a serious look at free will to pause
before acting upon the impulse to wreck/fuck/ingest everything and anything they see

[Irreverend Hugh, KSC]

Still the determinist argument seems valid in as much as the free will argument seems valid. Both sides have gathered impressive evidence to support their own assertions. But both sides are simple delusional when taken to extremes.

Sure we have certain biological things that we can't control (such as the big three: Old Age, Sickness, Death). Sure a lot of our neurology is hardwired. And that's the rub on the determinist side - they falsely assume that hardwiring means predetermined. Even though the study of cognition and linguistics proves that though much more than we expect is already hardwired into our nervous systems, the outcome is still up in the air. The determinists also look to superficial aspects such as biochemistry, physiological functions, emotional habits, etc. Those are just waves on the ocean. And saying the ocean is made of water gets you no closer to the truth.

The free will proponents can seem to err too much in saying that our entire reality can be chosen for us by us in untrammeled limitlessness.  However, like the determinists, much of what they are saying makes sense and can be supported by the evidence. Free will supporters also like to focus too much on the superfical aspects like emotions, thoughts, and dreams, without ever once dwelling on the possible interelated causes of such conditions. Again, the see the waves and forget the ocean.

Both sides are merely paradigms and intellectual diddling around them gets us no where fast.

Why not try to find the nature of your mind and of life for yourself and let's leave tired and worn out theories to the past.

[LMNO]

this is another big topic

i have found that free will only exists as temptation and a way to lead yourself to self-punishment

Only?  What about thinking for yourself?  Isn't that Free Will as well?

i guess that depends on whether or not you notice a pattern in things

if you subscribe to 'as above so below' - you have 'free will' to follow the pattern

if you dont subscribe to that theory
then
i guess you have found some other definition
or
are still searching for something

Must it be ,Äúabove and below,Äù something?
If there is a pattern, are you sure it,Äôs not simply a subjective observation?

And anyway,

Free will means that whether or not there is some sort of pattern, you can do as you please.  Not having free will mans that you might be fooling yourself that you are doing as you please, but your entire life is predestined, and no matter what you do, nothing is random or unexpected.

everything is permitted
but
everything also has its repercussions

Well, yeah.  everything is permitted, including repercussions, revenge, and no one liking you because of what you did.  It's not consequence-free action.  It's not "everything is permitted, so go ahead and be an asshole."  As the woman said, everything is everything.  Your actions, their actions, the impersonal forces of the universe... everything.

true
but
on first glance for most

it can look an awful lot like 'everything is permitted so be an asshole'

No one said it was easy,Ķ