Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity), but I have a problem. My dad has a mild case of schizophrenia, my aunt is a total schizophrenic and his mother also had schizophrenia. My cousins(aunt's children) are ok, and they've done drugs. I've smoked really potent pot, and in Amsterdam I ate space-cake and it was great - no side effects. What are the risks of different drugs to trigger schizophrenia for me?
Some recent research suggests that there is a link between marijuana use and schizophrenia.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/003851.html
There is also some research that suggests LSD and other hallucinogenics can be linked to schizophrenia in those who are vulnerable to the disease.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/newsletter/buckets/drugs.html
Given your family history, I think you'd be taking a significant risk getting involved with any of these drugs. Now, as a professional in the field of substance abuse prevention I would advise you to stay away from these drugs anyway. But given your concern about schizophrenia and again the family history, I think it would be especially important that you abstain.
Can marijuana still trigger problems if I don't smoke regularry? I mean about 3-4 times a year. Also thanks for the info :]
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity), but I have a problem. My dad has a mild case of schizophrenia, my aunt is a total schizophrenic and his mother also had schizophrenia. My cousins(aunt's children) are ok, and they've done drugs. I've smoked really potent pot, and in Amsterdam I ate space-cake and it was great - no side effects. What are the risks of different drugs to trigger schizophrenia for me?
Pretty minimal. Mushroom season really soon, I'd suggest starting there, get a couple of hundred mushies down you, and see how it goes.
MDMA is pretty much guaranteed not to cause schizophrenia, and probably does more to purge your psyche of Neuroses in one crazy night, than four years of Psychoanalysis.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 11:14:13 AM
Can marijuana still trigger problems if I don't smoke regularry? I mean about 3-4 times a year. Also thanks for the info :]
It's pretty unlikely. I think the studies look more at regular and heavy use.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 11:14:13 AM
Can marijuana still trigger problems if I don't smoke regularry? I mean about 3-4 times a year. Also thanks for the info :]
It's pretty unlikely. I think the studies look more at regular and heavy use.
dont become a regular smoker and in theory you SHOULD be fine... but steer away from the stronger strains just in case.
From personal experience I used shrooms and pot extensively and now have a mild but persistant psychosis issue, and my family history is similar. if you start to get any auditory hallucinations do not continue to use said substance.
Also take your age into consideration. As I understand it schizophrenia is most likely to happen between the ages of 15 and 25. I also read something recently that suggests that it's caused by activating a retrovirus encoded in our DNA. Same retrovirus that apparently causes MS.
In general, the longer you put off the initiation of drug use the better. We see that kids who start drug use at 12 and 13, and become addicted, a) have a much harder time recovering and becoming clean and b) are more likely to have long-term, lingering impacts.
The more and more we learn about brain and brain development, it's become pretty clear to me that the less you mess with it during the formative years of adolescence, the better. And the reality adolescence lasts longer than we knew, in terms of brain development. Your brain is still developing and establishing its wiring, if you will, into age 25 if not beyond.
I highly advise not messing with that chemistry during that time if you can avoid it.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 01:25:46 PM
In general, the longer you put off the initiation of drug use the better. We see that kids who start drug use at 12 and 13, and become addicted, a) have a much harder time recovering and becoming clean and b) are more likely to have long-term, lingering impacts.
The more and more we learn about brain and brain development, it's become pretty clear to me that the less you mess with it during the formative years of adolescence, the better. And the reality adolescence lasts longer than we knew, in terms of brain development. Your brain is still developing and establishing its wiring, if you will, into age 25 if not beyond.
I highly advise not messing with that chemistry during that time if you can avoid it.
And furthermore, the brain never is set in a particular network. The synapses are constantly moving, strengthening, weakening, reacting to changes in the environment. So, there is risk for people older than 25 as well. The question is, of course, when does the risk decline to the level of other sorts of psychosomatic trauma?
Whoah----Nephew Twiddleton can you post the link to that MS Retrovirus article? I have MS, and I smoked starting at a young age.... I am quite curious. As regards the original poster, and questions I have have about narcotic use I go to http://www.erowid.org/ (http://www.erowid.org/)
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 01:25:46 PM
In general, the longer you put off the initiation of drug use the better. We see that kids who start drug use at 12 and 13, and become addicted, a) have a much harder time recovering and becoming clean and b) are more likely to have long-term, lingering impacts.
The more and more we learn about brain and brain development, it's become pretty clear to me that the less you mess with it during the formative years of adolescence, the better. And the reality adolescence lasts longer than we knew, in terms of brain development. Your brain is still developing and establishing its wiring, if you will, into age 25 if not beyond.
I highly advise not messing with that chemistry during that time if you can avoid it.
In my experience, that isn't always true. The worst, most rapidly spiralling and horribly predictable Drug centred collapses into the gutters of oblivion that I've seen, have been when previously straight, TV Licence buying, hard working & law abiding Citizens, get to their mid-thirties, or early forties, and then discover Drugs.
I knew a Gunner Sergeant, in the Royal Artillery, exemplary record, and prospects, 5 tours of N Ireland under his belt, with 3 kids and a Wife. A Career Soldier. He went to a Club one night, and someone gave him some speed. Which he liked. And introduced his Wife to it, too. Then it was augmented with ecstacy pills at the weekends, regular partying, and then he met up with Cocaine. Within 8 months, it was a debacle of gargantuan proportions. He was off work for 'depression', smoking Crack all day long, then busted for class A's, Thrown into Colchester by the Army, divorced, then DD'd at the end of his 2 year sentence, losing a 6 figure pension.
After release, he discovered Heroin, Organised Crime, got back with his Wife, (who was in a similar state of decline) both with massive smack and crack habits, really giving it a commited, whole hearted lifestyle embrace. It finally impacted in a huge crime ring bust, Crown Court, more Prison, and kids in care.
To be fair, after this 'mid life crisis' as he puts it, lasting about 5 years, he sorted his shit out, works as a steelfixer, doesn't take drugs anymore, (except for the ubiquitous "bit of weed")and is much more philosophical about life.
And his example is far more common than you'd think. The later that someone gets exposed to these drugs and the lifestyle, the harder they try to make up for lost time. They have no experience with which to build any sense of restraint, and usually they have completely bottomed out in a couple of years. Their matching age group of users, who were exposed at a younger age, have got 20-25 years of resources, connections, & experience to fall back on, and have a far less chaotic lifestyle in comparison.
Well sure, there are adults who start using drugs in their adult years, but it really isn't that common when looking at the entire spectrum. The exception, as you will see, is Rx drugs but in many cases the addiction of Rx drugs in adults starts from a legitimate prescription for a legitimate health issue. Here is the average age of first use for the following drugs as of 2008:
Prescription drugs (ranges from 15.9 years for sedatives to 21.6 years for tranquilizers)
Cocaine: 19.8 years
Crack cocaine: 19.8 years
Ecstasy: 20.3 years
Heroin: 23.4 years (this one is a bit higher but I think it is partly linked to access)
LSD: 18.4 years
Marijuana: 17.8 years
Meth: 19.2 years
Alcohol: 16.8 years
inhalants: 15.9 years
tobacco: 17.4 years
So, as you can see, the norm really is youth and young adults.
My point was about brain and brain development. I think what you are talking about is the impact on the body of an older adult. And it certainly is true that a young person's body is going to be more resilient than a 40 year old. But when we are talking about the brain, damage that occurs while it is still developing, depending on the severity, can last into adulthood.
I would advocate not initiating in drug use at all. But in terms of the brain, the later it starts the "better" for longterm brain health.
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 13, 2010, 01:51:25 PM
Whoah----Nephew Twiddleton can you post the link to that MS Retrovirus article? I have MS, and I smoked starting at a young age.... I am quite curious. As regards the original poster, and questions I have have about narcotic use I go to http://www.erowid.org/ (http://www.erowid.org/)
Here you go. The focus is on schizophrenia, but I found the MS part to be interesting, since an acquaintance of mine also has it.
http://discover.coverleaf.com/discovermagazine/201006/?pg=62#pg60
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 11:14:13 AM
Can marijuana still trigger problems if I don't smoke regularry? I mean about 3-4 times a year. Also thanks for the info :]
It's pretty unlikely. I think the studies look more at regular and heavy use.
However, if you ever experience something that can be likened to a psychotic experience, stop immediately and don't touch it again.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 13, 2010, 03:35:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 11:59:19 AM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 11:14:13 AM
Can marijuana still trigger problems if I don't smoke regularry? I mean about 3-4 times a year. Also thanks for the info :]
It's pretty unlikely. I think the studies look more at regular and heavy use.
However, if you ever experience something that can be likened to a psychotic experience, stop immediately and don't touch it again.
Yes indeed!
Another reason to avoid the weed until you're well into your twenties:
Quote
Although many studies have examined the acute behavioural effects of cannabinoids in rodents, few have examined the lasting effects of cannabinoids at different developmental ages. This study compared lasting effects of cannabinoid exposure occurring in adolescence to that occurring in early adulthood
...
These results suggest that chronic exposure to a cannabinoid receptor agonist well after the immediate postnatal period, but before reaching sexual maturity, can lead to increased anxiety and a lasting impairment of working memory.
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/18/4/502.abstract
It's not a particularly dangerous drug, but you're definitely going to max out the damage you can do to yourself with pot by smoking a lot of it as an adolescent. I don't think there is any research out there that suggests otherwise.
In terms of the schizophrenia/LSD/mushrooms issue, well, do you think it's worth it to find out if it fucks you over for life or not? You're heavily predisposed to have a monkey on your back even if you don't mess with your brain, right? Why exacerbate the chances that you go irreversibly bananas?
It's fun, but not
that fun.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 13, 2010, 03:33:22 PM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 13, 2010, 01:51:25 PM
Whoah----Nephew Twiddleton can you post the link to that MS Retrovirus article? I have MS, and I smoked starting at a young age.... I am quite curious. As regards the original poster, and questions I have have about narcotic use I go to http://www.erowid.org/ (http://www.erowid.org/)
Here you go. The focus is on schizophrenia, but I found the MS part to be interesting, since an acquaintance of mine also has it.
http://discover.coverleaf.com/discovermagazine/201006/?pg=62#pg60
Apikoros and Dalekk, you both might be interested in the last paragraph--Looks like they've got good preliminary results testing an antibody for this particular retrovirus, and human trials on MS are scheduled for this year, and schizophrenia next year.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 02:30:49 PM
Prescription drugs (ranges from 15.9 years for sedatives to 21.6 years for tranquilizers)
Cocaine: 19.8 years
Crack cocaine: 19.8 years
Ecstasy: 20.3 years
Heroin: 23.4 years (this one is a bit higher but I think it is partly linked to access)
LSD: 18.4 years
Marijuana: 17.8 years
Meth: 19.2 years
Alcohol: 16.8 years
inhalants: 15.9 years
tobacco: 17.4 years
Huh, this is interesting. I wonder what these numbers were like around 1992-1994. My first cigarette was at 12, as was my first drink. My first weed experience was at thirteen, as was my first coke experience, and I was 14 the first time I took LSD.
In my experience, I learned a lot from LSD. I don't take it anymore (though, I've been thinking a lot about it lately). I think it's definitely worth it for the experience, but this is coming from someone with no (known) family history of mental disorders, so take anything I say with a grain of salt (or three).
Well I know the onset of use of alcohol, marijuana, and Rx drugs has been going down amongst school-age children in my state. My suspicion, though I don't have the stats off-hand, is that this is a nation-wide trend.
Meanwhile, it looks like the onset of use for inhalants is actually starting to inch up, which is really troubling and bizarre. Inhalants have mostly been the drug of choice for young, middle-school aged kids. Probably linked to the economy and ease of access.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on August 13, 2010, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 02:30:49 PM
Prescription drugs (ranges from 15.9 years for sedatives to 21.6 years for tranquilizers)
Cocaine: 19.8 years
Crack cocaine: 19.8 years
Ecstasy: 20.3 years
Heroin: 23.4 years (this one is a bit higher but I think it is partly linked to access)
LSD: 18.4 years
Marijuana: 17.8 years
Meth: 19.2 years
Alcohol: 16.8 years
inhalants: 15.9 years
tobacco: 17.4 years
Huh, this is interesting. I wonder what these numbers were like around 1992-1994. My first cigarette was at 12, as was my first drink. My first weed experience was at thirteen, as was my first coke experience, and I was 14 the first time I took LSD.
In my experience, I learned a lot from LSD. I don't take it anymore (though, I've been thinking a lot about it lately). I think it's definitely worth it for the experience, but this is coming from someone with no (known) family history of mental disorders, so take anything I say with a grain of salt (or three).
It is pretty interesting. For me, first time drinking at 17, but only once (disliked the taste). After 18 is when I started drinking more. Smoked weed when I was 18, and didn't smoke cigarettes until I was 20. So I'm pretty much the average, excepting tobacco. Never took anything more than that other than the occasional valium, which I found to be boring. That was around 19 I think.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 04:38:10 PM
Well I know the onset of use of alcohol, marijuana, and Rx drugs has been going down amongst school-age children in my state. My suspicion, though I don't have the stats off-hand, is that this is a nation-wide trend.
Meanwhile, it looks like the onset of use for inhalants is actually starting to inch up, which is really troubling and bizarre. Inhalants have mostly been the drug of choice for young, middle-school aged kids. Probably linked to the economy and ease of access.
Yeah, I never understood that. Funny side note, my parents freaked out once because when I was 13 I had white out in my room--disregarding that I was in jr. high and this was before we had gotten a computer. They gave me a stern lecture about not huffing, even though I flat out told them that I could read the warning and they were being retarded. It was annoying and funny at the same time. I guess that was the first time that I noticed that the media makes people crazy.
I once had a prescription for Dexedrine, and among the list of contra-indicative symptoms on the Drug company instructions leaflet, were "Happiness and Elation".
Apparently, if I experienced either, I was to stop taking the Drug immediately, and consult my GP. :?
Also on the list, were "Difficulty sleeping, Increased heartrate, and Feelings of Increased energy" :eek:
No shit?
Oh, and "Dizzy spells, impaired concentration, Fainting, Visual disturbance, & /or Hallucinations. If affected, do not drive, or operate heavy machinery" :roll:
So apparently, light machinery was not a problem, but they failed to give any indication at which point machinery became categorised as heavy and i know they never did because i read that thing over and over again looking at the various peculiarities and distinct qualities of the medication you know just to familiarise myself with the optimum dosages and the manafacturers quality control disclaimers and the legal status of who was or was not legally allowed to take control of my medication should i become in any way unable to administer the medication myself or if i had to send a third party to the pharmacy to collect my repeat prescription and a couple of details from the controlled substances act 1982 that were particular to the prescribed medication generally that it was an offence to supply or attempt to supply the medication to any person which was a bit weird because it was not an actual offence to be in posession of the tablets without a prescription but the same law states in other places that posession of any amphetamine or any amphetamine based preparation was punishable with a fine of up to £5000 and/or six months imprisonment
one annoying side effect they neglected to mention though was the loss of any punctuation skills at all and the obsessive compulsive repeating the same task over and over and over and over and :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:. . . . . . . Wow, they certainly kick in quickly too! :mad:
Interesting how early use of Cannabis leads to memory problems. Sure would explain all the CRS potheads I know.
Quote from: Kai on August 13, 2010, 05:00:24 PM
Interesting how early use of Cannabis leads to memory problems. Sure would explain all the CRS potheads I know.
I know there are memory and recall issues with Cannabis, but they always seem to slip my mind unless someone brings them up. Which they hardly ever do. As far as I recall, this is the first time I ever heard of . .erm, . . that thing you said.
That ties into the whole idea of state-dependent learning. There are kids who will study while high but then can only recall what they learned if they are high. When they are sober it is much harder for them to recall that information.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Why? I've tried them, and it's basically just living in a dream for a few hours. You can do that when you go to sleep.
The real world is interesting enough, if you pay attention. Too interesting, sometimes.
I'm not here to tell you that they're bad, or dangerous, or any shit like that. I'm here to tell you that they're useless.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Why? I've tried them, and it's basically just living in a dream for a few hours. You can do that when you go to sleep.
The real world is interesting enough, if you pay attention. Too interesting, sometimes.
I'm not here to tell you that they're bad, or dangerous, or any shit like that. I'm here to tell you that they're useless.
While I have in the past wanted to try these drugs, I think I'll have to agree with this.
I stay away from pot most of the time now, and prefer a nice chilled out drink to most other forms of applied self-delusion.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 13, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Why? I've tried them, and it's basically just living in a dream for a few hours. You can do that when you go to sleep.
The real world is interesting enough, if you pay attention. Too interesting, sometimes.
I'm not here to tell you that they're bad, or dangerous, or any shit like that. I'm here to tell you that they're useless.
While I have in the past wanted to try these drugs, I think I'll have to agree with this.
I stay away from pot most of the time now, and prefer a nice chilled out drink to most other forms of applied self-delusion.
An
occasional full-out drunk can be theraputic, I think.
Stress on the occasional.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 05:24:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 13, 2010, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Why? I've tried them, and it's basically just living in a dream for a few hours. You can do that when you go to sleep.
The real world is interesting enough, if you pay attention. Too interesting, sometimes.
I'm not here to tell you that they're bad, or dangerous, or any shit like that. I'm here to tell you that they're useless.
While I have in the past wanted to try these drugs, I think I'll have to agree with this.
I stay away from pot most of the time now, and prefer a nice chilled out drink to most other forms of applied self-delusion.
An occasional full-out drunk can be theraputic, I think.
Stress on the occasional.
ATM, I can't ever do more than three pints at a time unless someone is being generous witrh the cash.
Three is enough to relax me and make me a little merry.
I can drink much much more, and have a great time doing it, but I'm trying to stop that.
For Payne then, and nostalgia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt6osXyGJwI
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 13, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
I can drink much much more, and have a great time doing it, but I'm trying to stop that.
Then change something.
When I moved to Arizona, I quit drinking, because dehydration became a real concern. I never looked back. If you find yourself looking back, then you have an actual problem and it's very important to stop.
On the other hand, I've been trying to quit smoking for years, with no success.
And I have a great love of cactus, because it makes me crazy as hell, in a way that I enjoy. I don't recommend this to anyone. That's hippocritical, sure, given my response to the OP, but three points should be considered:
1. I'm a horrible old man, and I don't particularly care about the condition I'm in.
2. I become more horrible if I don't occasionally stomp my brains flat with various things, some chemical, most not.
3. If you young bastards do cactus, the price will go up, and the supply will go down, and that will make me very upset.
Don't do drugs, kids. Give them to Dok.
I've extensive experience in psychedelics, so maybe I can offer some advice.
people's reaction to Psychedelics can vary greatly, but with a little planning, you can basically control your own reaction and trip, completely avoiding the 'bad trip' you'll hear some people talk of. In over 15 years of tripping, close to a hundred trips, I've never once had a bad trip, and that's because I plan my trip in advance and don't deviate from the plan. Plan on tripping this evening actually. =]
LSD, if you can find it, is an excellent way to trip. It's my drug of choice for reasons I'll go into in a bit. It can be rather scarce depending on where you live. Ever since they busted those guys in that abandoned missile silo, it's become harder and harder to come by. Unless you're near a Phish concert that is. Strength of dosage can also widely vary in blotter. I haven't found any within the last 2 years that was worth the going price ($10) compared to say.. mushrooms. In general, if it's properly dosed, LSD provides a good, clean, hard trip with good visuals, auditory and other sensory effects.
Mushrooms provide a similar trip to LSD, but if you're eating them raw, you control your own dosage. This can be an advantage if you're inexperienced with psychedelics and want to get a taste of a trip without the full on, white knuckling the couch kind of trip you may get with overdosed LSD. I recommend them highly and this is my usual method of tripping due to the scarcity of LSD in my neck of the woods.
MDMA or Ecstasy is a very strong Methamphetamine which acts like a very strong SSRI, flooding your brain with serotonin for several hours before sucking it back up. Personally, I like the drugs effects, but avoid it due to the hard crash and addiction risk associated with amphetamine. Also, it can permanently alter your brain chemistry, and with the shit you buy on the street, you really never know what it's been cut with, sometimes heroin or cocaine, or laxative.. On the plus side, it provides the most pleasant sensory enhancement of the three, and it's nearly impossible to not enjoy yourself on it. Still, with the crash at the end, I avoid it these days.
The Planning Stage:
First, whichever you do, you need to set aside at least a 12-16 hour block of time that will not be interrupted by work or appointments, things of that nature. While emergencies can always happen, it helps to schedule as much as you can around your 12-16 hour block of time and don't deviate. Depending on your drug and dose, you'll be gone for several hours, and you'll want to give yourself as close to 8 hours sleep afterward as you can.
Second, for the 24 hours before you trip, eat a strong breakfast. Something along the lines of bacon, eggs, grits, toast, glass of milk and orange juice. Hit all of the food groups. lunch is your choice, but I generally go for just a sandwhich: meat, lettuce, onion, cheese, glass of juice. Again, hit all your food groups. For dinner I generally go for something high in carbs like a pasta. I'm partial to white sauce, but eat what you like of course. On the day of, depending on what time of the day you're planning to trip, I advise eating very light and abstaining from food at least 6 hours before your trip and drinking juice or water only. And don't over do it on the juice.. anything you've heard about Orange Juice making your trip harder is a lot of bullshit, though niacin or vitamin c pills are ok. Buy some multivitamins and take one before and after your trip. Buy at least a gallon of water for yourself and keep it near by, preferably cold. Stay hydrated throughout the trip and drink only water or juice. No alcohol.
Make sure you get a solid 8 hours sleep the day before your trip, this will ensure your mind and body has plenty of rest leading up to the ride you're about to give it.
If it's your first trip, I recommend a babysitter. Someone you know and trust and have no friction with at all. Preferably someone who enjoys listening to other people, as you'll likely be talking your head off at times. It's better that this babysitter is experienced with the drug, and they can even ride with you, but if not, I recommend they're sober. They don't have to watch you the entire time, but just be within shouting distance should you need someone. This ensures your safety, both physical and mental, and gives you the benefit of having someone to talk to about your experience. I strongly advise you to avoid group trips for your first few times as people are much more unpredictable in group trips and any negative vibes or thoughts become highly contagious and viral. I prefer to trip alone, but will add a friend or two on occasion, and ONLY these particular friends because I know how they'll react to the drug and there will never be any problems that arise.
Setting: your house if possible. If not, then a close friends. If you're underage, I really don't advise doing drugs at all. (even though I did enough acid to fill a drum barrel by the time I was 18) That's not me being hypocritical, it's speaking as a much more responsible adult than I was a teenager. But if you are underage and living with the folks and decide to go ahead with it, here's my advice: don't do it when they're around if at all possible. You will NOT be able to play it off. The fact that you're tripping will be seeping from your pores, and your parents are not stupid. It's even highly likely they've done it in their youth. If they're in the house with you, avoid them completely. If you have a run in with them, act as natural as possible, keep your answers and statements short and don't arouse suspicion. Keep a book or video game handy and tell them it's really good and you want to get back to it quickly. Do not leave the house alone, and if you do leave the house, have a destination and get there quickly and stay awhile. This place should be private and quiet. AVOID THE PUBLIC AT ALL COSTS. I cannot stress this enough. If you need to purchase anything from a store, do it before you start tripping. Avoid grocery stores and crowded parks, etc. When you're out, don't draw attention to yourself by doing stupid shit. you know exactly what I mean. Stay out of the woods if you're near woods. The beach, if you're near one, is one of the best places to trip but don't go in the water alone. NO DRIVING to your destination unless the driver is sober. This should go without saying, but I'd feel irresponsible not saying it.
You should have your music and entertainment loosely planned in advance. Depending on your tastes, I recommend electronic music for the auditory effects it enhances. Avoid metal and songs with negative lyrics. I prefer melodic trance with female vocalists along the lines of Paul van Dyk, Matt Darey and BT, but listen to what you already enjoy when you're sober. Songs that bring back good memories are an excellent choice. Avoid songs that remind you of old girlfriends or relationships that ended badly.
For movies, I go with animations or comedies. I'm partial to classic American animations like The Secret of Nimh or Watership Down, but I know there's a lot of good manga floating around. Avoid horror/suspense movies and action movies although, The Matrix, already a good trip when you're sober, is an excellent trippin movie. After you're experienced with the effects of the drug and your reaction to it, you can expand what you put in your ears and eyes to other areas if you're adventurous. Comedies are great and I highly recommend them. The last time I tripped with my friends, we stayed in and watched Airplane, Airplane II and Anchorman. We laughed for nearly the entire trip.
Mood: Music, movies, setting and company all play an important role in setting the mood of your trip. Chosen wisely, they virtually guarantee a good experience. Before you take your drug, tell yourself this important fact: once this is in my stomach, there's no taking it back, no puking it up, no sobering up.. it's a one way trip and you're going to be there for at least 4 - 6 hours. Go into it with that in mind and you'll be fine. It's always possible for something negative to occur that intrudes on your trip and your thoughts. If this occurs, get out of the situation as quickly as possible and back to your home base. Home base is where you can go to get away from anything, restock on supplies (though you should take water with you everywhere) and chill out without any outside interference. It should be a place where you can give yourself complete sensory deprivation should you need it, where you control the lighting and noise level. If you have a depressive streak or anger issues, and they start to creep into your trip, the best thing to do is to consciously acknowledge that it's happening and to immediately do something to counteract it. If it's another person that's bringing this on, get away from the person. Remember, you control what you think and do, not the drug. It's possible on doses of LSD or mushrooms for your thoughts to get into what I call a "mind loop" where you hear or think the same thing over and over again. This should not alarm you unless the thought or sound is a negative one, in which case you should immediately change your setting to counteract your own thought process and turn it into a better one.
Always remember that YOU control your trip, the trip does not control you. Master this and you'll enjoy it every time.
LSD:
dose: in the micrograms and lower. while you can't control how blotter paper is dosed unless you happen to be making it yourself (and if you are, we should talk in private =]) if it's liquid you find, I advise caution in dosing it. While you can't OD on LSD, you can give yourself a dose that extends the duration to longer than you planned and or cause your stomach and bowels to revolt on you, meaning you'll void your stomach once or twice, and have the shits for a little while.
onset: 45 minutes to an hour, with heavy peaking at about an hour and a half.
duration: anywhere from 4 - 8 hours depending on the dose. peaking generally ends after 2 - 2 1/2 hours and it's a gradual, steady trip after that, ending gradually with a feeling of being tired.
effects: LSD forces certain of your bodies systems into overdrive and shuts turns the others down to compensate. Your eyes will be forcibly dilated, allowing in much more light than you're brain is used to. This is what causes the blurring and trails you'll see. I prefer heavy visuals in my trip, and this is why I'm often at the beach as the constant changes in the way the water moves are quite hypnotizing.
your sense of hearing will be enhanced, or seem to be. It's not unusual to have auditory hallucinations which are really just your ears picking up slight sounds that you would otherwise tune out as white noise.
your sense of touch will be enhanced and I find having something to keep my hands busy is cool. Something along the lines of a stress ball or ball of silly putty.
you will sweat unless you're keeping the AC cranked up. This is the reason for the water. Change your clothes if they become uncomfortable and I usually wear shorts, sandals and a light tshirt, with a pair of linen pants to wear to bed toward the end of the trip. Be comfortable, just expect your sweat glands to go into overdrive as your body attempts to sweat out the drug.
In general, your renal system will go dormant. I find I almost never have to urinate except maybe once if I've been drinking a lot of water. It's possible to get something called "The Acid Shits" and acid farts are common, but if you have to void, it's generally only once close to when you start peaking. This is actually a good thing and is why I advise eating light. Once you're bowels are empty, you should be good for the remainder of the trip.
You probably wont be able to get an erection on acid, though I've done it twice before with heavy stimulation. But even if you can't sex with someone also on acid can be really fuckin cool and I highly recommend it. Don't let the drug make you stupid and careless though, and wrap that shit before you tap that shit.
Risks: Besides what I've mentioned above, there's generally no risk of addiction either physical or psychological to LSD. Immediately after taking it, your brain builds up an immense tolerance to the drug meaning that if you tripped today, and wanted to trip tomorrow, you would have to triple or quadruple the dose and it wouldn't still be as strong a trip as yesterdays. This lasts approximately 24-48 hours. Your body doesn't WANT to trip again immediately after, and the amount of sleep it needs from being overtaxed and the high tolerance it builds means you'll never become physically addicted where you're taking it day after day. If you enjoy it, of course do it as often as time allows, but I've never met an acid junkie in my life. The psychological effects are so strong, you'll never become addicted to it this way either. There's no way you'll want to walk around all the time with your brain in overdrive, even if you could.
Mushrooms:
dose: 2 caps and two stems is usually enough to give me a good 4 hour trip. Sometimes I'll double up on it for a more intense visual effect. The choice is yours, but if you don't feel it's strong enough after the first hour, feel free to eat more. As with LSD, you can't really overdose on them, but you can upset your stomach and cause your body to go into revolt to rid itself of the drug. You'll find yourself with your head in the toilet once or twice in this case, but that's about it. If you buy chocolates or some other concoction, you're pretty much taking whatever the cook put it, but I've never had a chocolate I didn't like.
onset: usually faster than LSD, with tripping around 30 minutes and hard peaking at an hour to an hour and a half.
duration: 4-5 hours depending on your dose. Ive had mushrooms that were done in 4 hours and back to reality.
effects: pretty much the same as LSD, but I find I tend to laugh more on mushrooms.
MDMA:
dose: one pill will do it. I don't recommend more than that.
onset: 30 minutes to 45 minutes.
duration: 6-8 hours, with heavy peaking after the first hour. The comedown is steady until a point and then sharply drops when your brain sucks all that serotonin and dopamine back up.
Effects: MDMA isn't called the love drug for nothing. It also forcibly dilates your pupils and especially enhances your sense of touch taste, and smell. You'll want to have chewing gum handy to keep you from grinding your teeth and I like to have a variety of candies handy usually. Sex on X is also amazing.
Risks: Heavy risk of both physical and psychological addiction. Methamphetamine is a dangerous drug and should not be used lightly. If you can't moderate your own behavior in regards to it, I recommend never taking it again.
Whew, that was long winded, wasn't it?
as to risks of Schizophrenia: I'd say they're minimal if your plan it well. Stories you hear about people going on a trip and never coming back are almost always about people who had half the lights out and one foot out the door anyway, and who probably didn't plan their trip and had something bad happen to them while they were in a mind loop and couldn't get out of it.
In summation: Plan it and plan it well, be safe, and have fun. Tripping is all about fun and should include lots of laughter.
and remember always this one thing that really applies to anything you do in life: If you do it in moderation, you can do anything you like.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 05:54:57 PM
I've extensive experience in psychedelics, so maybe I can offer some advice.
people's reaction to Psychedelics can vary greatly, but with a little planning, you can basically control your own reaction and trip, completely avoiding the 'bad trip' you'll hear some people talk of. In over 15 years of tripping, close to a hundred trips, I've never once had a bad trip, and that's because I plan my trip in advance and don't deviate from the plan. Plan on tripping this evening actually. =]
LSD, if you can find it, is an excellent way to trip. It's my drug of choice for reasons I'll go into in a bit. It can be rather scarce depending on where you live. Ever since they busted those guys in that abandoned missile silo, it's become harder and harder to come by. Unless you're near a Phish concert that is. Strength of dosage can also widely vary in blotter. I haven't found any within the last 2 years that was worth the going price ($10) compared to say.. mushrooms. In general, if it's properly dosed, LSD provides a good, clean, hard trip with good visuals, auditory and other sensory effects.
Mushrooms provide a similar trip to LSD, but if you're eating them raw, you control your own dosage. This can be an advantage if you're inexperienced with psychedelics and want to get a taste of a trip without the full on, white knuckling the couch kind of trip you may get with overdosed LSD. I recommend them highly and this is my usual method of tripping due to the scarcity of LSD in my neck of the woods.
MDMA or Ecstasy is a very strong Methamphetamine which acts like a very strong SSRI, flooding your brain with serotonin for several hours before sucking it back up. Personally, I like the drugs effects, but avoid it due to the hard crash and addiction risk associated with amphetamine. Also, it can permanently alter your brain chemistry, and with the shit you buy on the street, you really never know what it's been cut with, sometimes heroin or cocaine, or laxative.. On the plus side, it provides the most pleasant sensory enhancement of the three, and it's nearly impossible to not enjoy yourself on it. Still, with the crash at the end, I avoid it these days.
The Planning Stage:
First, whichever you do, you need to set aside at least a 12-16 hour block of time that will not be interrupted by work or appointments, things of that nature. While emergencies can always happen, it helps to schedule as much as you can around your 12-16 hour block of time and don't deviate. Depending on your drug and dose, you'll be gone for several hours, and you'll want to give yourself as close to 8 hours sleep afterward as you can.
Second, for the 24 hours before you trip, eat a strong breakfast. Something along the lines of bacon, eggs, grits, toast, glass of milk and orange juice. Hit all of the food groups. lunch is your choice, but I generally go for just a sandwhich: meat, lettuce, onion, cheese, glass of juice. Again, hit all your food groups. For dinner I generally go for something high in carbs like a pasta. I'm partial to white sauce, but eat what you like of course. On the day of, depending on what time of the day you're planning to trip, I advise eating very light and abstaining from food at least 6 hours before your trip and drinking juice or water only. And don't over do it on the juice.. anything you've heard about Orange Juice making your trip harder is a lot of bullshit, though niacin or vitamin c pills are ok. Buy some multivitamins and take one before and after your trip. Buy at least a gallon of water for yourself and keep it near by, preferably cold. Stay hydrated throughout the trip and drink only water or juice. No alcohol.
Make sure you get a solid 8 hours sleep the day before your trip, this will ensure your mind and body has plenty of rest leading up to the ride you're about to give it.
If it's your first trip, I recommend a babysitter. Someone you know and trust and have no friction with at all. Preferably someone who enjoys listening to other people, as you'll likely be talking your head off at times. It's better that this babysitter is experienced with the drug, and they can even ride with you, but if not, I recommend they're sober. They don't have to watch you the entire time, but just be within shouting distance should you need someone. This ensures your safety, both physical and mental, and gives you the benefit of having someone to talk to about your experience. I strongly advise you to avoid group trips for your first few times as people are much more unpredictable in group trips and any negative vibes or thoughts become highly contagious and viral. I prefer to trip alone, but will add a friend or two on occasion, and ONLY these particular friends because I know how they'll react to the drug and there will never be any problems that arise.
Setting: your house if possible. If not, then a close friends. If you're underage, I really don't advise doing drugs at all. (even though I did enough acid to fill a drum barrel by the time I was 18) That's not me being hypocritical, it's speaking as a much more responsible adult than I was a teenager. But if you are underage and living with the folks and decide to go ahead with it, here's my advice: don't do it when they're around if at all possible. You will NOT be able to play it off. The fact that you're tripping will be seeping from your pores, and your parents are not stupid. It's even highly likely they've done it in their youth. If they're in the house with you, avoid them completely. If you have a run in with them, act as natural as possible, keep your answers and statements short and don't arouse suspicion. Keep a book or video game handy and tell them it's really good and you want to get back to it quickly. Do not leave the house alone, and if you do leave the house, have a destination and get there quickly and stay awhile. This place should be private and quiet. AVOID THE PUBLIC AT ALL COSTS. I cannot stress this enough. If you need to purchase anything from a store, do it before you start tripping. Avoid grocery stores and crowded parks, etc. When you're out, don't draw attention to yourself by doing stupid shit. you know exactly what I mean. Stay out of the woods if you're near woods. The beach, if you're near one, is one of the best places to trip but don't go in the water alone. NO DRIVING to your destination unless the driver is sober. This should go without saying, but I'd feel irresponsible not saying it.
You should have your music and entertainment loosely planned in advance. Depending on your tastes, I recommend electronic music for the auditory effects it enhances. Avoid metal and songs with negative lyrics. I prefer melodic trance with female vocalists along the lines of Paul van Dyk, Matt Darey and BT, but listen to what you already enjoy when you're sober. Songs that bring back good memories are an excellent choice. Avoid songs that remind you of old girlfriends or relationships that ended badly.
For movies, I go with animations or comedies. I'm partial to classic American animations like The Secret of Nimh or Watership Down, but I know there's a lot of good manga floating around. Avoid horror/suspense movies and action movies although, The Matrix, already a good trip when you're sober, is an excellent trippin movie. After you're experienced with the effects of the drug and your reaction to it, you can expand what you put in your ears and eyes to other areas if you're adventurous. Comedies are great and I highly recommend them. The last time I tripped with my friends, we stayed in and watched Airplane, Airplane II and Anchorman. We laughed for nearly the entire trip.
Mood: Music, movies, setting and company all play an important role in setting the mood of your trip. Chosen wisely, they virtually guarantee a good experience. Before you take your drug, tell yourself this important fact: once this is in my stomach, there's no taking it back, no puking it up, no sobering up.. it's a one way trip and you're going to be there for at least 4 - 6 hours. Go into it with that in mind and you'll be fine. It's always possible for something negative to occur that intrudes on your trip and your thoughts. If this occurs, get out of the situation as quickly as possible and back to your home base. Home base is where you can go to get away from anything, restock on supplies (though you should take water with you everywhere) and chill out without any outside interference. It should be a place where you can give yourself complete sensory deprivation should you need it, where you control the lighting and noise level. If you have a depressive streak or anger issues, and they start to creep into your trip, the best thing to do is to consciously acknowledge that it's happening and to immediately do something to counteract it. If it's another person that's bringing this on, get away from the person. Remember, you control what you think and do, not the drug. It's possible on doses of LSD or mushrooms for your thoughts to get into what I call a "mind loop" where you hear or think the same thing over and over again. This should not alarm you unless the thought or sound is a negative one, in which case you should immediately change your setting to counteract your own thought process and turn it into a better one.
Always remember that YOU control your trip, the trip does not control you. Master this and you'll enjoy it every time.
LSD:
dose: in the micrograms and lower. while you can't control how blotter paper is dosed unless you happen to be making it yourself (and if you are, we should talk in private =]) if it's liquid you find, I advise caution in dosing it. While you can't OD on LSD, you can give yourself a dose that extends the duration to longer than you planned and or cause your stomach and bowels to revolt on you, meaning you'll void your stomach once or twice, and have the shits for a little while.
onset: 45 minutes to an hour, with heavy peaking at about an hour and a half.
duration: anywhere from 4 - 8 hours depending on the dose. peaking generally ends after 2 - 2 1/2 hours and it's a gradual, steady trip after that, ending gradually with a feeling of being tired.
effects: LSD forces certain of your bodies systems into overdrive and shuts turns the others down to compensate. Your eyes will be forcibly dilated, allowing in much more light than you're brain is used to. This is what causes the blurring and trails you'll see. I prefer heavy visuals in my trip, and this is why I'm often at the beach as the constant changes in the way the water moves are quite hypnotizing.
your sense of hearing will be enhanced, or seem to be. It's not unusual to have auditory hallucinations which are really just your ears picking up slight sounds that you would otherwise tune out as white noise.
your sense of touch will be enhanced and I find having something to keep my hands busy is cool. Something along the lines of a stress ball or ball of silly putty.
you will sweat unless you're keeping the AC cranked up. This is the reason for the water. Change your clothes if they become uncomfortable and I usually wear shorts, sandals and a light tshirt, with a pair of linen pants to wear to bed toward the end of the trip. Be comfortable, just expect your sweat glands to go into overdrive as your body attempts to sweat out the drug.
In general, your renal system will go dormant. I find I almost never have to urinate except maybe once if I've been drinking a lot of water. It's possible to get something called "The Acid Shits" and acid farts are common, but if you have to void, it's generally only once close to when you start peaking. This is actually a good thing and is why I advise eating light. Once you're bowels are empty, you should be good for the remainder of the trip.
You probably wont be able to get an erection on acid, though I've done it twice before with heavy stimulation. But even if you can't sex with someone also on acid can be really fuckin cool and I highly recommend it. Don't let the drug make you stupid and careless though, and wrap that shit before you tap that shit.
Risks: Besides what I've mentioned above, there's generally no risk of addiction either physical or psychological to LSD. Immediately after taking it, your brain builds up an immense tolerance to the drug meaning that if you tripped today, and wanted to trip tomorrow, you would have to triple or quadruple the dose and it wouldn't still be as strong a trip as yesterdays. This lasts approximately 24-48 hours. Your body doesn't WANT to trip again immediately after, and the amount of sleep it needs from being overtaxed and the high tolerance it builds means you'll never become physically addicted where you're taking it day after day. If you enjoy it, of course do it as often as time allows, but I've never met an acid junkie in my life. The psychological effects are so strong, you'll never become addicted to it this way either. There's no way you'll want to walk around all the time with your brain in overdrive, even if you could.
Mushrooms:
dose: 2 caps and two stems is usually enough to give me a good 4 hour trip. Sometimes I'll double up on it for a more intense visual effect. The choice is yours, but if you don't feel it's strong enough after the first hour, feel free to eat more. As with LSD, you can't really overdose on them, but you can upset your stomach and cause your body to go into revolt to rid itself of the drug. You'll find yourself with your head in the toilet once or twice in this case, but that's about it. If you buy chocolates or some other concoction, you're pretty much taking whatever the cook put it, but I've never had a chocolate I didn't like.
onset: usually faster than LSD, with tripping around 30 minutes and hard peaking at an hour to an hour and a half.
duration: 4-5 hours depending on your dose. Ive had mushrooms that were done in 4 hours and back to reality.
effects: pretty much the same as LSD, but I find I tend to laugh more on mushrooms.
MDMA:
dose: one pill will do it. I don't recommend more than that.
onset: 30 minutes to 45 minutes.
duration: 6-8 hours, with heavy peaking after the first hour. The comedown is steady until a point and then sharply drops when your brain sucks all that serotonin and dopamine back up.
Effects: MDMA isn't called the love drug for nothing. It also forcibly dilates your pupils and especially enhances your sense of touch taste, and smell. You'll want to have chewing gum handy to keep you from grinding your teeth and I like to have a variety of candies handy usually. Sex on X is also amazing.
Risks: Heavy risk of both physical and psychological addiction. Methamphetamine is a dangerous drug and should not be used lightly. If you can't moderate your own behavior in regards to it, I recommend never taking it again.
Whew, that was long winded, wasn't it?
as to risks of Schizophrenia: I'd say they're minimal if your plan it well. Stories you hear about people going on a trip and never coming back are almost always about people who had half the lights out and one foot out the door anyway, and who probably didn't plan their trip and had something bad happen to them while they were in a mind loop and couldn't get out of it.
In summation: Plan it and plan it well, be safe, and have fun. Tripping is all about fun and should include lots of laughter.
and remember always this one thing that really applies to anything you do in life: If you do it in moderation, you can do anything you like.
Hippy!
You forgot to mention The Fear™. It's not fair not to mention The Fear™.
QuoteHippy!
You forgot to mention The Fear™. It's not fair not to mention The Fear™.
not a hippy, skippy.. just a libertarian who enjoys his psychedelics. and what's The Fear™?
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 05:54:57 PM
Risks: Heavy risk of both physical and psychological addiction. Methamphetamine is a dangerous drug and should not be used lightly. If you can't moderate your own behavior in regards to it, I recommend never taking it again.
Methamphetamine is a dangerous drug and should not be used, ever.
Quoteas to risks of Schizophrenia: I'd say they're minimal if your plan it well. Stories you hear about people going on a trip and never coming back are almost always about people who had half the lights out and one foot out the door anyway, and who probably didn't plan their trip and had something bad happen to them while they were in a mind loop and couldn't get out of it.
Given his family history I think what you are suggesting and advising would pose significant risk.
Quoteand remember always this one thing that really applies to anything you do in life: If you do it in moderation, you can do anything you like.
No, when it comes to drugs I don't think this is true at all. There are drugs that can be lethal or cause significant damage upon the first use. Especially when a drug is combined with alcohol. Sure, moderation with alcohol is feasible when you are an adult, but I would argue that with a drug like meth, there is no such thing as safe moderate use.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 13, 2010, 05:27:19 PM
I can drink much much more, and have a great time doing it, but I'm trying to stop that.
Then change something.
When I moved to Arizona, I quit drinking, because dehydration became a real concern. I never looked back. If you find yourself looking back, then you have an actual problem and it's very important to stop.
Ach, it's not the drink I miss, it's the scumbags and assholes I used to drink with.
The social (in the very loosest sense of the word) element of Scottish pub culture. I've always been able to sit and enjoy even just a glass of water in the right crowd.
QuoteGiven his family history I think what you are suggesting and advising would pose significant risk.
I understand your position, and even respect it given your field of work.
I wasn't suggesting to him to do it, I was giving advice should he, after thinking it over, decide to do it. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.
DON'T DO DRUGS!! you can live a perfectly fun and enjoyable life without ever putting a chemical in your body.
but if you do: do it safely and with full knowledge of the risks involved.
Is that better? :D
To add a bit on the subject on MDMA, disregarding what it could be cut with for a moment, a lot of the brain damage, etc. comes from the fact that a lot of people are like "Holy Shit! This awesome! Imma take 5 hits a night for a week straight!!!!" Ecstasy depletes the serotonin in your brain, which can take up to 2 weeks to replenish. Taking it every night is over-working and depleting the serotonin levels before they can fully replenish, which can lead to depression and other brain damage. So taking it more that once every 2 weeks is a big no-no if you're not trying to ruin your brain. Taking 5-HTP before and for a few days after taking MDMA helps avoid the whole "suicide Tuesday" feelings. That, and magnesium helps with the jaw clenching while you're on it.
As for trusting it, you really never know, so I try not to take it (not that I do all that often as it is) unless it's coming from a trusted source and/or I know someone that already did take it. There is also an online database of pills that people have sent to have tested for the chemical make-up. I believe they're back up and running too, though there's no guarantee that EVERY pill being passed off as MDMA is on there. So far, between these two methods, haven't been steered wrong - "worst" I've gotten was something that was mostly speed. But you're not always going to have your handy-dandy computer or someone who's taken it with you, so it is a take-at-your-own-risk situation then.
What can I say, hallucinogens and MDMA are fun. They aren't NECESSARY for fun, but in the right setting with the right precautions, you can have a really fun time, much as I did at a giant hippie festival in CT a few weekends ago. BUT, I can't really recommend hallucinogens to someone with a background/potential background in schizophrenia or other serious underlying mental health problems. MDMA, maybe, but hallucinogens when there's a chance of schizophrenia don't seem to be worth the potential risk.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on August 13, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
What can I say, hallucinogens and MDMA are fun.
No. They're daytime TV for the brain.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 06:07:27 PM
QuoteHippy!
You forgot to mention The Fear™. It's not fair not to mention The Fear™.
not a hippy, skippy.. just a libertarian who enjoys his psychedelics. and what's The Fear™?
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn30/almag88/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Vegas_DVD_.jpg)
What self-respecting hippie hasnt read Fear and Loathing,
or atleast seen the movie for the love of God.
QuoteWhat self-respecting hippie hasnt read Fear and Loathing,
or atleast seen the movie for the love of God.
Of course I'm a HST fan.. just didn't get your reference.
damn shame the way he decided to leave the planet. :sad:
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:17:55 PM
QuoteWhat self-respecting hippie hasnt read Fear and Loathing,
or atleast seen the movie for the love of God.
Of course I'm a HST fan.. just didn't get your reference.
damn shame the way he decided to leave the planet. :sad:
If your spine was crumbling to powder, you might do the same thing.
The Fear™ has a different face for everyone, but it is unmistakeable when it hits you. Something starts to creep in around the edges of your Trip, then takes it over, hits you like a steamroller, and leaves you in a place where everything is decaying, and the air has a different, greasy feel to it.
There is a lingering, all pervading smell, a little like an electrical fire, but as familiar as your own sweat. It instills a nagging feeling of extremely close danger, but never quite close enough to give you anything to work with. The quality of the light is all fucked up, the colours seem to be very flat, and thin, except for the blues, which seem to be alive and somehow have a livid violet blue/black harmonic that makes you think of the edges of a deep, badly infected wound.
You can't tell if the air is full of invisible, choking, smoke, and you feel the beginnings of a panic fluttering in your chest. You are suddenly struck by the idea that there is something very, very wrong. You stop what you are doing, and start a mental check to see if you are functioning properly. You are aware of every autonomous function, breathing, heartbeat, bloodflow, etc, and you feel as if you must somehow transfer the control to your foremind, because if you let them go back to automatic, you are likely to forget to keep them going, and die from a lazy heart, or forgetting you need to breath, and asphyxiating.
You take three or four really deep breathes in quick succesion anyway, just in case you had to, but this makes the blood rush in your ears, and your heart beat faster. Everything suddenly ramps up a notch or two. You feel, rather than hear a thundering noise in the distance, it beats like a huge, slow, deep drum, driving everything with a vast timeless beat.
The Panic in your chest gets bigger, and you feel it's fluttery fingers moving up to your throat now, the rushing in your ears is almost deafening and all your perception seems to be building, and building, trapped and looking for a way out, it feels like a tidal wave about to crash over through, and out of your head, all at the same time, (which, you notice as an afterthought, is no longer a constant, but rather ambiguous) Then the panic moves up, and across your face like a blush, and spreads around your head, you are aware of a tiny tiny little white spot, at the centre of everything.
Your bursting, panic stricken mind focuses on this aperture that suddenly unifies all creation, and the light gets bigger, and impossibly bright, just as the wave crashes over you, and it's suddenly like a thousand silent trumpets are blowing all at once, right next to your head, and the pain, and pressure is unbearable, and something has got to give in a moment, and you know that something's going to be you!
But you suddenly find some reserve of will, and start to fight it, with every drop of essence that is you. You seem to be getting away, for a second or two as well, and then whatever it was that you were, snaps away like an elastic band snaps, and you are aware of nothing but the light, no sound, or colour, or texture, just this Holocaust of light, so bright it shines right through you like a breeze cuts through the mist. Matter is suddenly gone. Does not matter, need not be.
You are a point of stillness, the fulcrum at which everything balances, and you feel an instant of relief, before The Fear™ Finally hits you. Rolls over you like a wave of foul, gloopy caramel coloured :fnord: and you start to be afraid.
You thought you knew what Fear was, knew how to ride it until it dropped away to nothing much at all.
You realise that you were very wrong indeed. :aaaah: This thing, The Fear™ is going to ride you, consume you, digest you, and shit you out, like you were nothing! It will go on forever, and you have no hope at all of escaping it's icy clutch. You also know that deep down, you have always known this. And so it takes you. :scared:
That's just the build up, but you start to get the idea. I wont elaborate any further, because of the spoilers,
but once it gets you, you will never ever be the same. Your life is bisected into two parts. Before, and After.
So now, just because you know The Fear™ is there, don't let it put you off what can be a delightfully fun time. It doesn't get you every time, and it probably won't the first time. Some people never seem to get it at all.
But it doesn't pay to get complacent. It's there, it's real, and it will eventually make itself known to you. To all of us. Eventually. So good luck, and be sure to enjoy your Trip. Everything will be fine. :wink: Probably.
BB, I want to steal that (with attribution) for the horror texts.
Huge thanks to everyone for the information. I know I can control myself really well, so addiction is not a problem. I'm pretty much the strongest-willed person I know. Thanks Dr. Vrtig0 for the time spent on writing the whole thing and I'll deffinetly take it into consideration if I try shrooms or LSD. Probably I won't try LSD tough, and only shrooms. I don't plan on tripping often and I only want to try it to know the experience.
Also I don't really get people who say it's a really spiritual experience and shit. A chemical goes into you and changes what you percieve and how you think. What's so spiritual about it? My experiences with weed have only hardened my belief that what I call "me" is just a bunch of chemicals and electrical impulses.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:21:30 PM
BB, I want to steal that (with attribution) for the horror texts.
No problem Dok. People need to know about this shit.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:21:55 PM
I know I can control myself really well, so addiction is not a problem.
Every cocaine addict I ever knew started off saying that.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 07:23:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:21:30 PM
BB, I want to steal that (with attribution) for the horror texts.
No problem Dok. People need to know about this shit.
Please to copy into my fear, loathing, and horror thread.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:17:55 PM
QuoteWhat self-respecting hippie hasnt read Fear and Loathing,
or atleast seen the movie for the love of God.
Of course I'm a HST fan.. just didn't get your reference.
damn shame the way he decided to leave the planet. :sad:
Sorry Lads, that wasn't
The Fear™ I was referring to.
Well, I'm not really interested in the effects of cocain, speed, heroin and meth. I know what the effects are and I don't find them really interesting. I know a lot of people who had the will not to get addicted to E and still can't stop smoking pot daily, while this is not a problem for me, as I haven't gotten high since april. After the first two times I got drunk, and after analysing the shit I was doing I just stopped. I have strong enough will to do sports every single day and I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:28:14 PM
Well, I'm not really interested in the effects of cocain, speed, heroin and meth. I know what the effects are and I don't find them really interesting. I know a lot of people who had the will not to get addicted to E and still can't stop smoking pot daily, while this is not a problem for me, as I haven't gotten high since april. After the first two times I got drunk, and after analysing the shit I was doing I just stopped. I have strong enough will to do sports every single day and I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
My comment was intended to illustrate that addiction and willpower are totally unrelated. People with high willpower may
resist indulging in an addiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't addicted.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 07:23:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:21:30 PM
BB, I want to steal that (with attribution) for the horror texts.
No problem Dok. People need to know about this shit.
Done.
Please to copy into my fear, loathing, and horror thread.
Done.
QuoteIf your spine was crumbling to powder, you might do the same thing.
conceded.
QuoteMy comment was intended to illustrate that addiction and willpower are totally unrelated. People with high willpower may resist indulging in an addiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't addicted.
The good Dok speaks truth here.
Addiction is your brain craving a chemical you gave it and then took away.
It's got shit all to do with will power. Will power comes in when you recognize the potential you're becoming addicted and to something and stop doing it.
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:35:03 PM
QuoteMy comment was intended to illustrate that addiction and willpower are totally unrelated. People with high willpower may resist indulging in an addiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't addicted.
The good Dok speaks truth here.
Addiction is your brain craving a chemical you gave it and then took away.
It's got shit all to do with will power. Will power comes in when you recognize the potential you're becoming addicted and to something and stop doing it.
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
As I understand it, addiction is caused by neural pathways being formed associated with the substance involved. You can kick the habit, and the pathway becomes dormant. The moment you use it again, the pathway opens up as if it had never been closed, and you're hooked again.
That's why many smokers (myself included) quit for a year or more, then have one smoke, and the next day they're buying a pack.
Quote
As I understand it, addiction is caused by neural pathways being formed associated with the substance involved. You can kick the habit, and the pathway becomes dormant. The moment you use it again, the pathway opens up as if it had never been closed, and you're hooked again.
That's why many smokers (myself included) quit for a year or more, then have one smoke, and the next day they're buying a pack.
my understanding as well, thank you for succinctly explaining it.
I grew up with addicts, both parents, and my mother died for her addiction.
To say I spent some time studying it to find out what hell caused it would be an understatement. I've spent collective years on the subject and it forms a large portion of my home library.
Haven't we hashed this topic out, many many times?
Also:
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 07:20:10 PM
The Fear™ has a different face for everyone, but it is unmistakeable when it hits you. Something starts to creep in around the edges of your Trip, then takes it over, hits you like a steamroller, and leaves you in a place where everything is decaying, and the air has a different, greasy feel to it.
There is a lingering, all pervading smell, a little like an electrical fire, but as familiar as your own sweat. It instills a nagging feeling of extremely close danger, but never quite close enough to give you anything to work with. The quality of the light is all fucked up, the colours seem to be very flat, and thin, except for the blues, which seem to be alive and somehow have a livid violet blue/black harmonic that makes you think of the edges of a deep, badly infected wound.
You can't tell if the air is full of invisible, choking, smoke, and you feel the beginnings of a panic fluttering in your chest. You are suddenly struck by the idea that there is something very, very wrong. You stop what you are doing, and start a mental check to see if you are functioning properly. You are aware of every autonomous function, breathing, heartbeat, bloodflow, etc, and you feel as if you must somehow transfer the control to your foremind, because if you let them go back to automatic, you are likely to forget to keep them going, and die from a lazy heart, or forgetting you need to breath, and asphyxiating.
You take three or four really deep breathes in quick succesion anyway, just in case you had to, but this makes the blood rush in your ears, and your heart beat faster. Everything suddenly ramps up a notch or two. You feel, rather than hear a thundering noise in the distance, it beats like a huge, slow, deep drum, driving everything with a vast timeless beat.
The Panic in your chest gets bigger, and you feel it's fluttery fingers moving up to your throat now, the rushing in your ears is almost deafening and all your perception seems to be building, and building, trapped and looking for a way out, it feels like a tidal wave about to crash over through, and out of your head, all at the same time, (which, you notice as an afterthought, is no longer a constant, but rather ambiguous) Then the panic moves up, and across your face like a blush, and spreads around your head, you are aware of a tiny tiny little white spot, at the centre of everything.
Your bursting, panic stricken mind focuses on this aperture that suddenly unifies all creation, and the light gets bigger, and impossibly bright, just as the wave crashes over you, and it's suddenly like a thousand silent trumpets are blowing all at once, right next to your head, and the pain, and pressure is unbearable, and something has got to give in a moment, and you know that something's going to be you!
But you suddenly find some reserve of will, and start to fight it, with every drop of essence that is you. You seem to be getting away, for a second or two as well, and then whatever it was that you were, snaps away like an elastic band snaps, and you are aware of nothing but the light, no sound, or colour, or texture, just this Holocaust of light, so bright it shines right through you like a breeze cuts through the mist. Matter is suddenly gone. Does not matter, need not be.
You are a point of stillness, the fulcrum at which everything balances, and you feel an instant of relief, before The Fear™ Finally hits you. Rolls over you like a wave of foul, gloopy caramel coloured :fnord: and you start to be afraid.
You thought you knew what Fear was, knew how to ride it until it dropped away to nothing much at all.
You realise that you were very wrong indeed. :aaaah: This thing, The Fear™ is going to ride you, consume you, digest you, and shit you out, like you were nothing! It will go on forever, and you have no hope at all of escaping it's icy clutch. You also know that deep down, you have always known this. And so it takes you. :scared:
That's just the build up, but you start to get the idea. I wont elaborate any further, because of the spoilers,
but once it gets you, you will never ever be the same. Your life is bisected into two parts. Before, and After.
So now, just because you know The Fear™ is there, don't let it put you off what can be a delightfully fun time. It doesn't get you every time, and it probably won't the first time. Some people never seem to get it at all.
But it doesn't pay to get complacent. It's there, it's real, and it will eventually make itself known to you. To all of us. Eventually. So good luck, and be sure to enjoy your Trip. Everything will be fine. :wink: Probably.
True story: first time I tripped on mushrooms, I went to this place. I was on a post-christian gnostic kick at the time and experienced landed in Hell. Then, after a while, I experienced Purgatory, and eventually Heaven. The funny thing is, they were all the same as the real world, they just...
seemed different.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:35:03 PM
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
Sorry, this is not accurate. Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered. This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence. Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better". There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:35:03 PM
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
Sorry, this is not accurate. Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered. This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence. Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better". There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.
He did qualify it (though not as well as you did).
Yeah, I see. Sorry, I'm just being particular about this because this thread started with a real person (who I'm assuming is fairly young) expressing a real interest in experimenting with drugs and I want to make sure he clearly understands the possible implications of the choice he may or may not make.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 07:52:07 PM
Yeah, I see. Sorry, I'm just being particular about this because this thread started with a real person (who I'm assuming is fairly young) expressing a real interest in experimenting with drugs and I want to make sure he clearly understands the possible implications of the choice he may or may not make.
You may have noticed my posts, doing the very same thing, though with different rationalles.
I really don't want people driving up the price of cactus. :lulz:
On a serious note, I do notice a difference between pre-cactus and post-cactus me. I'm not particularly partial to either condition, though, but - as I said - I am an unpleasant person either way. The side effects don't particularly bother me, but they might bother the hell out of someone who wasn't a total fuckwit to begin with.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 06:47:07 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on August 13, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
What can I say, hallucinogens and MDMA are fun.
No. They're daytime TV for the brain.
Well, maybe I should have said can be fun, though it still effectively has the same meaning. I wouldn't advocate for their regular, habitual use, or your brain will go all mushy. I'm not one for daytime TV, or most of nighttime TV for that matter, but sometimes some stupid silly fun is just what my brain needs. It shouldn't NEED any kind of drug for that, but once or twice a year, that might be an avenue I choose to take. Maybe I'm too wound up to let the Fun come naturally - more often than not, except with a very small handful of people, and even that varies, I am plagued by anxiety and self-doubt/self-consciousness that puts a halt to the Fun in my mind the moment I get an inkling, imagined or not, that someone is noticing me, up to the point of inducing awful panic attacks.
A personal problem, no doubt, but if every so often I can let my ego go, maybe forget reality, or look at it from a different few for a few hours, it helps my mind to unwind. Not saying even that *I* need drugs to have fun, far from it, I just like doing it sometimes to have a slightly altered look at the things around me.
Didn't real mean for this to go into a spinoff about "Drugs are good cuz they help me not have anxiety hurrr", which is not how I am recommending them - just a side benefit that I personally, enjoy as I am not one to let go of my inhibitions very easily.
This was going to be at the end of my last block of verbal diarrhea, but I decided to separate it because I *think* they hit on slightly different points, the following being more close in line with what I was originally saying:
I'll likely get shit all over for this post, but I suppose I'll leave it, after all I need to learn to stop caring what everyone thinks, right?! So, in conclusion, after spewing that out of my brain, what I believe I meant earlier when I said "hallucinogens and mdma are fun" is that they can be a supplement to fun. I personally wouldn't find taking either by yourself and sitting at home staring at the ceiling very fun. But, out by the beach, surrounded by thousands of other people, listening to music and playing games (a lot of which I did and enjoyed without the use of drugs FWIW) they can be that little extra that can add to the enjoyment of the experience, but aren't necessary to it.
One of my godmothers has Dissociative disorder (used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder) She will have blackouts where another personality takes over and does really bad things, like hitchhiking across Canada. She attributes this to LSD usage when she was younger and some of the psychiatrists she has consulted do as well, but not all of them.
I have not heard any anecdotal evidence that shrooms or MDMA cause any psychoses, or seen any studies to that effect, that doesn't mean they don't exist. MDMA does cause minor brain damage (in other words, don't become a regular user, but occasional use should be fine) and also suppresses the desire to drink, while dehydrating you, so make sure to make a conscious effort to stay hydrated if you choose to go that way. MDMA was not a psychedelic in my personal experience, LSD and Shrooms gave effects that could be considered to be in the same family, while MDMA did not, it's action was more intensely euphoric.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 04:38:10 PM
Well I know the onset of use of alcohol, marijuana, and Rx drugs has been going down amongst school-age children in my state. My suspicion, though I don't have the stats off-hand, is that this is a nation-wide trend.
Meanwhile, it looks like the onset of use for inhalants is actually starting to inch up, which is really troubling and bizarre. Inhalants have mostly been the drug of choice for young, middle-school aged kids. Probably linked to the economy and ease of access.
Onset of inhalants rising strikes me as a good thing. Inhalants cause pretty serious brain damage if used regularly and I'd categorize them as more destructive than quite a few illegal drugs, although not anywhere near as addictive. (you mean onset age right? If you mean that kids are using less pot, alcohol and RX drugs and more inhalants, yeah, that sounds like bad news)
No, it's not good news because the increase in the onset of use isn't from fewer young kids doing inhalants, it's from more older kids doing inhalants, which is making the average age of onset go up.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:21:55 PM
Huge thanks to everyone for the information. I know I can control myself really well, so addiction is not a problem. I'm pretty much the strongest-willed person I know. Thanks Dr. Vrtig0 for the time spent on writing the whole thing and I'll deffinetly take it into consideration if I try shrooms or LSD. Probably I won't try LSD tough, and only shrooms. I don't plan on tripping often and I only want to try it to know the experience.
Also I don't really get people who say it's a really spiritual experience and shit. A chemical goes into you and changes what you percieve and how you think. What's so spiritual about it? My experiences with weed have only hardened my belief that what I call "me" is just a bunch of chemicals and electrical impulses.
Drugs are not spiritual experience in and of themselves. However they can greatly intensify a spiritual experience if used properly. Shrooms are great for this. You don't sound as if you are interested in spirituality in the first place though, so I am not going to bother going on about how to best use them in a spiritual way.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 08:09:13 PM
No, it's not good news because the increase in the onset of use isn't from fewer young kids doing inhalants, it's from more older kids doing inhalants, which is making the average age of onset go up.
Ahh. I just read it as kids are waiting longer to start doing them, which would be a good thing.
A drunk, and acid head, and "Bob" were trying to get into The City, after the gates were closed for the night. The drunk said "I'm going to lay down here and sleep until they open the gates". The acid freak said "I'm going to try to float through the key hole.". "Bob" went around back to where they take the garbage out, and got in for free.
- From The Book of the Subgenius.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:28:14 PM
I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user? What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.
The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.
She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.
She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.
This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride.
BB is on a roll today. :mittens:
Quote
When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user? What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.
The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.
She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.
She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.
This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride.
Heroin scares the holy fuck out of me, and I'll never get near the stuff.
besides the fact that you cant get near me with a needle without me ripping out your tongue.. which makes for interesting doctors office visits.
For my doctor.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:35:03 PM
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
Sorry, this is not accurate. Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered. This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence. Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better". There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.
Heroin causes no Brain damage, no toxic build up, no nasty residues, it's totally organic, it's virtually the same stuff as your own endorphins. In fact, it's more compatible for you than your own endorphins. If it is introduced to your system, you no longer produce endorphins. Heroin is the superior Motorcycle. The real thing. The Panacea. It does no more harm to your body than the good clean air you breath. This is true.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 13, 2010, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 07:35:03 PM
Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.
Sorry, this is not accurate. Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered. This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence. Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better". There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.
Heroin causes no Brain damage, no toxic build up, no nasty residues, it's totally organic, it's virtually the same stuff as your own endorphins. In fact, it's more compatible for you than your own endorphins. If it is introduced to your system, you no longer produce endorphins. Heroin is the superior Motorcycle. The real thing. The Panacea. It does no more harm to your body than the good clean air you breath. This is true.
Yeah, but then you stop caring about anything else, and eventually fall to pieces through self-neglect.
Quote from: Dr. Vrtig0 on August 13, 2010, 08:22:23 PM
Heroin scares the holy fuck out of me, and I'll never get near the stuff.
besides the fact that you cant get near me with a needle without me ripping out your tongue.. which makes for interesting doctors office visits.
For my doctor.
[/quote]These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.
Don't most heroin users start out smoking it?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:30:02 PM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:28:14 PM
Well, I'm not really interested in the effects of cocain, speed, heroin and meth. I know what the effects are and I don't find them really interesting. I know a lot of people who had the will not to get addicted to E and still can't stop smoking pot daily, while this is not a problem for me, as I haven't gotten high since april. After the first two times I got drunk, and after analysing the shit I was doing I just stopped. I have strong enough will to do sports every single day and I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
My comment was intended to illustrate that addiction and willpower are totally unrelated. People with high willpower may resist indulging in an addiction, but that doesn't mean they aren't addicted.
I still have to fight the urge to smoke pot. It happens on a regular basis and i really dont want my dosage increased on the psych meds.
For me it comes down to whether I want a case ofThe FearTM and to get high, or stay sober.Mostly I choose sober.
I would personally advise Daalek to avoid mushrooms, personally. Family history is not to be fucked with. The meds I'm on mean that I can't drink too much without feeling tired, they mess with my sexual function and can make you gain weight and give a slight predisposition to diabetes. If I am diagnosed with Schizophrenia, statistically that custs 10 years off of life expectancy.
Oh and the retrovirus article was very interesting, I forget who posted that.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 08:20:26 PM
BB is on a roll today. :mittens:
THIS.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.
Don't most heroin users start out smoking it?
Some do. There's a lot that start with the needle though. Heroin that is pure enough to be worth smoking is hard to find.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.
Don't most heroin users start out smoking it?
They do. Then as their tolerance for the Drug grows, they realise that if they were to shoot it up instead, their habit costs (in cash) will fall by perhaps 80%. But it can take years to get to that point.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 13, 2010, 08:34:36 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:32:33 PM
These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.
Don't most heroin users start out smoking it?
Some do. There's a lot that start with the needle though. Heroin that is pure enough to be worth smoking is hard to find.
The Brown Heroin that comes from Afghanistan, is processed with the smoker in mind. People are a lot less afraid of a delivery system like a slice of tinfoil, and a lungful of smoke.
The Heroin that used to come from the Golden Triangle was not a smoker. It was a shooter. Pharmaceutical Heroin is also a shooter. Most addicts, if given the choice between Brown, or pure Pharmaceutical Heroin, will go for the Brown.
Badbeast, you are writing some damn good shit in here.
I just read through 5+ pages of posts, so first let me say thanks for reposting the article about the retrovirus. I haven't read it (my next step but for shutting down the PC and going home) but my gut feel is that it won't cover my theory about MS. Right now, there are 4 MS classifications: Benign, Relapsing Remitting (what I have), Secondary Progressive and Progressive. I personally feel there are many more types, brought about by different things who symptomatically, and the way we test for MS, show up as such. The effects are the same but the causes are different, hence MS is probably Dozens or hundreds of things, but all look like MS in symptoms. I know I had a "maybe" episode in Winter 2000, then got the most severe one I ever had in Jan 2001... which was 3 months after I survived 9/11. (yes, it was a rough year). No family history, no other factors... How can I not believe in connections...
Anyway, second point no advice, one way or the other can truly influence a person in the ingestion of chemicals, IMNSHO. I feel OP has already made the choice and needs validation. (This is not a negative comment, so please don't read it as such)
Third, I think it was Dr. Vertigo with the really excellent advice about how to prepare for a trip etc.... Good stuff! For me, I never did drugs to "get off" I always did it for growth purposes... Ever since reading The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe, I had wanted to drop Acid. For me, hallucinogens were always about growth and never about getting off. I always felt that is why I never had a bad trip. When I realized that my pot smoking habit had become exactly that, a habit, and not a way to alter consciousness for growth, I stopped.
My final point is a quote from Jerry Garcia: (Shit, I can't find the exact quote BUT it goes something like) The first time you do acid you open the door. It's always open after that
Some great quotes found while looking for the exact quote: http://alternativereel.com/includes/top-ten/display_review.php?id=00095
PS: Yes, I am still a crunchy, old style hippie trapped In a 35 year old body
Quote from: Kai on August 13, 2010, 09:12:54 PM
Badbeast, you are writing some damn good shit in here.
Thanks very much. Perhaps it might make up for some of the drivel I've posted in the past. :)
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 13, 2010, 09:14:58 PM
My final point is a quote from Jerry Garcia: (Shit, I can't find the exact quote BUT it goes something like) The first time you do acid you open the door. It's always open after that
Some great quotes found while looking for the exact quote: http://alternativereel.com/includes/top-ten/display_review.php?id=00095
PS: Yes, I am still a crunchy, old style hippie trapped In a 35 year old body
True enough, but there are lots of doors. My first trip, I never even realised there was a door, until the fucker slammed shut behind me! :eek:
Damn, a drug thread that I didn't get to comment on early.
Oh well.
I think most things that have to be said have been said.
I just want to say, I *loved* doing drugs, I've had a fucking *AWESOME* time on drugs... but I've stopped doing them now. (regularly)
And I was doing them since I was 12-13ish, my memory is fine (better then most peoples), I don't suffer from schizophrenia, I think my life *has* improved due to my drug use, and I have a pretty good life and I don't consider myself addicted to anything.
I'm most likely the exception to the rule though, and I don't recommend drugs to everyone, but they've always worked for me, so fuck all you assholes who don't know how to be responsible in regards to the things you put into your body.
Why did I stop? Because there really is such a thing as *too much* of a good time. And well, after you've done DMT and watched reality literally fall apart and get sent into another dimension where nothing but pure energy exists, that's really fucking hard to top.
I'm pretty content these days being mostly sober, but I am partial to the odd drink and a jay whenever I'm with my friends, but I don't go hunting for anything anymore, and I'm happy.
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, there goes the thread.
Hey, we talked about all the horribleness of drugs, I think it's only fair to say, my truth, that I had a great time on drugs, sorry if this spoils anything.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 14, 2010, 06:30:17 AM
Hey, we talked about all the horribleness of drugs, I think it's only fair to say, my truth, that I had a great time on drugs, sorry if this spoils anything.
The OP was asking about a possible genetic flaw in his family, Lys, and this can be a very serious subject for someone that doesnt want to end up nuts.
Read the topic properly before being an irresponsible fuck.
This isnt a general debate about drugs. This is a serious personal question, you douchebag.
Indeed. It's one thing when we are talking philosophically and politically about drugs and drug policy. But in this instance, we're dealing with a real person, with a family history of mental illness, contemplating doing drugs that have shown to have some links to mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. So congrats to you Lys, that you've survived mostly intact, so far, from your drug use. But please think about the example you could possibly be setting for others before you open your big mouth.
While I agree with you Rainy Day Pixie that this is a serious question, I do feel that "having a good time" does play into the OPs question.... A lot of the above answers have been about the fundamental question of risk vs. reward. I have stated above, to me drugs are not about having a good time but about exploration (sorry Dok Howl, we'll need to agree to disagree), but if getting off plays into the question, then comments that drugs are fun do help answer the OP. I agree, I have always had a good time... But as Yogi Berra said, "Wherever you go, there you are" and that applies to tripping...
I disagree, and here's why.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Curiosity is not really exploration, though exploration is curiosity in a sense.
This strikes me more as "Other people talk about, it sounds kinda funky. I wonder what it's like". Not a kind of "I wonder what it'll unlock in me that I never knew before".
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
but I have a problem. My dad has a mild case of schizophrenia, my aunt is a total schizophrenic and his mother also had schizophrenia. My cousins(aunt's children) are ok, and they've done drugs. I've smoked really potent pot, and in Amsterdam I ate space-cake and it was great - no side effects. What are the risks of different drugs to trigger schizophrenia for me?
And this, what the post is actually about, is ALL about health and safety. There isn't even the question of reward in it, just risk.
We don't even need to present a balanced argument, just the risks. Dalekk is big enough and ugly enough to balance the rewards versus the risks himself.
In this context, I reckon questions of risk only should be addressed in this thread. We have PLENTY of other threads where people can thrash out the political/ criminal/ social/ moral implications, so if you could leave those discussions there, that'd be swell.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 13, 2010, 07:37:30 PM
That's why many smokers (myself included) quit for a year or more, then have one smoke, and the next day they're buying a pack.
That's me. :kingmeh:
The only good thing that for me came from smoking is that I now know firsthand what an addiction is. I'm not entirely sure if it was worth the lesson.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:18:09 PMQuote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:28:14 PMI've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user? What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.
The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.
She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.
She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.
This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride.
Jesus.
I enjoyed your "Fear" post, but this ... wow. Made me have to swallow something away a couple of times.
Also, when I saw this thread grew to 7+ pages, I thought "ahh not
another one..", but I'm glad we can actually have a really cool, interesting and horrifying discussion about drugs as well, instead of just arguing back and forth.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 14, 2010, 02:33:06 PMQuote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AMOk, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity),
Curiosity is not really exploration, though exploration is curiosity in a sense.
This strikes me more as "Other people talk about, it sounds kinda funky. I wonder what it's like". Not a kind of "I wonder what it'll unlock in me that I never knew before".
I dunno, DALEKK should say what he meant, if it's important to anyone. Cause when I wanted to do shrooms for the first time, I wanted the experience for exploration+curiosity as well, and I might have worded it exactly the same if I'd have had those questions.
OTOH, I was also very curious about the spirituality aspect of it, not because it sounded kinda funky, but because it would actually be something new, like what I thought drugs would be like before I'd ever had
any, a change of reality perception. Because, IMO, in some sense, being stoned is just another kind of being drunk. And shrooms would be different. So I was very, very curious.
Anyway, never mind my own reasons and all that. I didn't post on this before in this thread, because after thinking it over for a while, the best thing I could say was: I am not a doctor (not one with any sort of relevant medical grade, anyway), so I can't give any advice on whether you could/should do shrooms or not. However, what I said earlier in the thread, if you continue to do marijuana, be very very careful because that shit can trigger psychosis in those who may have those tendencies. I've actually seen it happen, even though the kid knew he shouldn't do pot ever (again), he did anyway. Ah cause that's another thing, one that really complicates the pot-schizophrenia correlation, is that schizophrenics tend to smoke really a lot of pot. I heard this from a friend who works as an apprentice psychiatrist in a mental institution. He wasn't exactly sure why, but they do, nearly all of them.
I think Pixie should post more. I've seen her posting before about her own struggle with drug induced mental problems and, although I know they are mostly pot induced, I think they're probably the biggest "no don't do this!" I have seen from anyone on the boards yet. Especcially if the interest is for fun as opposed to spiritual or exploratory reasons. Fun, even a lot of fun, is not worth a risk of schizophrenia.
On the question of Psychedlics/Schizophrenia, Psychiatrists are unable to distinguish between a Schizophrenic episode, and a mushroom or acid trip. Just saying.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 14, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
On the question of Psychedlics/Schizophrenia, Psychiatrists are unable to distinguish between a Schizophrenic episode, and a mushroom or acid trip. Just saying.
One really important difference is that someone undergoing a schizophrenic episode did not imbibe mushrooms or acid shortly before the episode.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 14, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
On the question of Psychedlics/Schizophrenia, Psychiatrists are unable to distinguish between a Schizophrenic episode, and a mushroom or acid trip. Just saying.
Ive yet to drop acid and suddenly hear God talking to me and telling me the government is stealing my thoughts.
Mabye Im just not getting ahold of the good stuff.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 14, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
On the question of Psychedlics/Schizophrenia, Psychiatrists are unable to distinguish between a Schizophrenic episode, and a mushroom or acid trip. Just saying.
:cn:
Quote from: BadBeast on August 13, 2010, 08:18:09 PM
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 07:28:14 PM
I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.
When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user? What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.
The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.
She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.
She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.
This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride.
You've an amazing understanding of smack for someone for who never really found it to be their drug of choice. It was (and probably if I am honest, still is) my first choice. Which is why I steer well clear of it. But then I am one for whom the world has proved to be very sharp edged. Smack smoothes those edges off. Rounds them. Cushions you from the lacerations which the the razor's edge of life seems to inflict upon the souls of some of us.
Those who have ever used it because they have never needed it. Who are able, through some accident of nature or nurture, to deal with their pain in better ways; who have only ever witnessed its effects from the outside; they will never understand what so many might find so attractive in it. Why, they must ask themselves would you wish to pay through the nose for something which only leads to you lying semi-comatose beside a bucket? And becoming a total arsehole. Dull, dependent, needy and demanding. And with a stunning lack of conversation.
That's because hammer is a deeply personal relationship. It's between you and the gear. Exclusive. Obsessive. Compulsive.
And addictive. Rampantly, madly addictive. Not just physically, but emotionally and mentally. Oh I know it has a short half life. I know that physically you quite quickly become addicted. A matter of weeks with regular use. . But long before that. Weeks and weeks before the aches and the shakes. The itching and want set in, you know what you're seeking. And you know that no matter how much you drink, how much you smoke, how many e's you down...nothing will cradle you like hammer does.
Long before. the physiological addiction kicks in, it's got you . If you're looking for a pain killer, you need look no further than heroin. And if you look at it too long, you may never look away.
I hate to quote such a shocker of a film, but it had me at hello.
It had me when I realised that through it's velvet haze I could look at my own pain, as if from above. Detached and neutral. Examining it. Fascinated by its complexity. Not floored by its power and seared by its white heat.
When you're pinned you can examine those aspects of your life,. Those episodes of abuse and loss and grief - as if they happened about you; but not to you. In the same way as reading a well written book or watching a great play will affect you. You know there is pain. Terrible pain. You can think about it. You can feel for that poor bitch who suffered so badly. But it's not your pain anymore. It's happening off stage. A flashback to something someone went through , somewhere else. Sometime.
And for the first time, you can stop and think about what happened. Interpret motive and means and effect. It makes you feel as if you've finally got a handle on it. That you might at long last be able understand what the fuck went on...and how...and why. And to whom.
But it's a lying bastard. It promises so much. It tells you you'll never feel despair again. Never know solitude or loss. It tells you it will never leave. It says it loves you as much as you love it. It will never cheat on you. Never betray you. Never fail to be there when you need it.
But it will. It will drag you through gutters full of shit. It will abandon you on street corners. Leave you sobbing and desolate. Inconsolable. Afraid and alone as you've never been alone before. Weeping like a whipped child.
Because when it leaves you. When you can't score. When there's a drought. When you're out of money and people to borrow from. When there are no more stereos to hock, no more corners to be cut in the weekly budget, then the pain comes back. That pain that you thought you had buried within it's soft white folds. It springs back at you with a vengeance. Like a ravenous tiger, the pain devours you..Seemingly more powerful than ever before; because it has been gone so long. The shock of it like electricity to your genitals.
And you'll do anything to make that hurt stop. You'll do things you thought you'd never stoop to. Willingly. Eagerly. You'll throw yourself on degradation and humiliation. On larceny and subterfuge. You'll lie and cheat. Steal and whore and manipulate. Anything you need to do, to get that magic hit...because the needle is there in the corner of your mind winking at you, promising you ,luring you and lying to you,
"I can make it better baby. I can make you feel
so good."
Although I am loving the heroin stuff shouldn't it go in a different thread? Heroin is definitely not a psychedelic.
No, it's not. But it was only really brought up because the OP was saying all that "Oh, I won't get addicted" stuff, that is usually a pre-amble to addiction. So the point was worth labouring on, and I hope he's taken it on board.
I'd just as soon get back to Psychedelics. Heroin is boring.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 14, 2010, 08:38:07 PM
I think Pixie should post more. I've seen her posting before about her own struggle with drug induced mental problems and, although I know they are mostly pot induced, I think they're probably the biggest "no don't do this!" I have seen from anyone on the boards yet. Especcially if the interest is for fun as opposed to spiritual or exploratory reasons. Fun, even a lot of fun, is not worth a risk of schizophrenia.
Well from my point of view, this is how it goes:
Pixies issues are not in my opinion pot induced (certainly not "mostly"), more of a large combination of factors including a lot of stress, OTC medication (which she was taking for a tootache - both Co-Codamol tablets and Benzoncain gel), family history and then some pot over the top of that.
I myself still blame the stress mostly, (even now she has an almost "allergic" reaction to most stress) and the familial predisposition to problems of this kind.
What you do see in a lot of her posts though is a pretty good warning that you HAVE to know the risks of whatever you're putting in your body and balance them properly. The shrroms thing, or the pot thing, or the medication thing.... All of the experiences you might have are never going to be worth it if you have even the mildest of psychotic breaks.
The pot makes things mostly worse for her now, so she stays off it and all other drugs excepting some booze and nicotine.
Good points, Payne. Pixie (whilst freely attesting to periods of being mad as a box of frogs) has always come across as thoughtful and intelligent, and her posts are usually well considered, well written, and to the point. It's obvious she doesn't post anything she hasn't thought about, and the content of her material suggests a mostly ordered and logical (for a chick) thought process.
But there is little doubt that taking Psychedelics can profoundly alter the way you look at things, but I am of the thought that an awful lot of Psychotic behaviour, and neuroses, have had their root causes conveniently traced back to use of recreational Drugs, for Political reasons to justify keeping these Drugs illegal.
As example, I feel that the legalisation of weed, would be a massive kick in the teeth to companies currently involved in research and development of Anti-depressants. How relevant would all the Benzodiazapienes be, if rather than go to a Doctor for a script, people (over the last 30 years) were legally allowed to smoke a little weed whenever they needed to unwind? 8) Many of these Drugs (And more importantly, their research grants) would be made obsolete overnight. :argh!:
Cannabis is one of the most versatile medicinal plants there is. It's analgesic, relaxant, anti-depressant, anti-hypertension, appetite stimulant, cardio-vasodilatory, sedative, and euphoric qualities are all well documented, researched, and verified. It's non-addictive nature means it is safe for use, without any supervisory Medical involvement, and yet, we are deemed to be too irresponsible to be trusted with any access to it. And this is just one plant. :roll:
Now mushrooms are illegal too. :? Which really pisses me off. (Not enough to stop picking as many as I can in the season) Because they have never been problematic to society, or high profile, or contributary to crime levels, or even particularly popular compared to other recreationals like Cocaine or Speed. Acid was never a Drug of addiction either. And you can't overdose on it. There is a point at which it doesn't matter how much more Acid you take, you don't get any higher, (I pegged it at 25 fresh blotters) :eek: but this point will vary from person to person.
And the other thing that pisses me off, is that the Drug laws were introduced, ostensibly to
protect people from the dangers of Drug use. Yet these Laws, in 9 out of 10 cases, are only implemented against the people they are supposed to protect, :eek: which marginalises them even more than the Drug itself.
During the 1970's The amount of amphetamines prescribed, was greater than the sum of all the other Drugs
prescribed put together. But society didn't fall apart. The biggest users of them, were Housewives. (Who may have got a little OCD with the Housework, but that's not really a problem, is it?)
Now, the official stance is that this group of Drugs have no therapeutic value whatsoever. Their use was only curbed, when they started to become popular with Kids, who used to stay up all night, Dancing. :? What the fuck is wrong with that? Amphetamines were fine to hand out to Soldiers in WWI & WWII, after all, it was cheaper than feeding them, lighter to carry around than bulky old food, and sharpened the Soldiers attention. So they were good. Now that we don't have a War on, they are bad. Double standards again. Nothing ever changes, does it?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Payne on August 15, 2010, 08:51:31 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 14, 2010, 08:38:07 PM
I think Pixie should post more. I've seen her posting before about her own struggle with drug induced mental problems and, although I know they are mostly pot induced, I think they're probably the biggest "no don't do this!" I have seen from anyone on the boards yet. Especcially if the interest is for fun as opposed to spiritual or exploratory reasons. Fun, even a lot of fun, is not worth a risk of schizophrenia.
Well from my point of view, this is how it goes:
Pixies issues are not in my opinion pot induced (certainly not "mostly"), more of a large combination of factors including a lot of stress, OTC medication (which she was taking for a tootache - both Co-Codamol tablets and Benzoncain gel), family history and then some pot over the top of that.
I myself still blame the stress mostly, (even now she has an almost "allergic" reaction to most stress) and the familial predisposition to problems of this kind.
What you do see in a lot of her posts though is a pretty good warning that you HAVE to know the risks of whatever you're putting in your body and balance them properly. The shrroms thing, or the pot thing, or the medication thing.... All of the experiences you might have are never going to be worth it if you have even the mildest of psychotic breaks.
The pot makes things mostly worse for her now, so she stays off it and all other drugs excepting some booze and nicotine.
I also think that MAYBE the long term pot smoking was an equal factor. Anyway mad as a bag of frogs sounds funny, but assuredly is not. I also did a hell of a lot of shrooms over the years and that was probably some of the first warning signs.
But the stress thing is very true. I dont post as much here as I used to cos the meds are a bugger to swim thru in the morning.
One thing fo' sho', tho, If i had me a time machine I would have told me not to bosh everything as hard as I have, to be on the safe side. A little experimentation I guess was harmless, but i have had a tendency to take things to extremes.
I would say MDMA and shrooms were fun, yes, but in retrospect i wouldnt have used them, or pot as heavily if i had known. There will be warning signs, in my case several years in advance, but only little ones, so stay aware of that if Daalek decides to go down that path, and at the slightest sign, knock em on the head.
Cheese and rice, if the government wanted volunteers for experimentation, they'd only have to read into this thread. ::) Just think, a druggie's dream come true.
Quote from: Ruby on August 15, 2010, 02:36:17 PM
Cheese and rice, if the government wanted volunteers for experimentation, they'd only have to read into this thread. ::) Just think, a druggie's dream come true.
Okay then n00by Ruby, just what do you think Druggys dream about? I'm sure you have some wacky and outlandish theory you can wow us all with. But it had better be bloody good, because so far, all you've done is dribble random words out of the hole you usually stuff pies into. So let's hear it, please.
Quote from: Ruby on August 15, 2010, 02:36:17 PM
Cheese and rice, if the government wanted volunteers for experimentation, they'd only have to read into this thread. ::) Just think, a druggie's dream come true.
:fuckoff: :facepalm: :clint: :froggypance2: :stfu1:
how about posting some ACTUAL FUCKING CONTENT AND NOT PASSING YOUR DRIVEL JUDGEMENT ALL OVER OUR NICE CLEAN BOARDS?
seriously, fuckoff back to TCC.
Judgement :? No judgement here, I'm all for whatever works for the individual. :lulz:
That being said, is there a limit?
http://www.filmcritic.com/features/2009/08/drug-addicts-in-movies
However, more to the point:
http://sleep-disorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_drugs_and_herbs_affect_dreams
http://stason.org/TULARC/mind/dreaming/1-5-Do-substances-like-drugs-herbs-and-foods-affect-our-dr.html
Mind you, I'm not personally anyone's enemy, but rather individual ignorance is, and to self-destruct is ignorant.
Would I use drugs? Hells bells, of course, but, within my own reasoning.
My conclusion:
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2002/09/12/grob_interview
http://www.tclondon.org.uk/pages/home/drug-types/ecstacy.php
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/pressroom/pressrelease/pr_november07_01.cfm
:fuckoff: INDEED
On a more 'positively effective' note, this is one of my most favorite topics of all:
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/ecstasy.asp
http://www.no-problem-marriage-counseling.com/couple-massage.html
Again, I am all for whatever may work for individual, um, needs. :mrgreen:
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/marijuana.asp
http://coedmagazine.com/2009/09/24/10-major-health-benefits-of-marijuana
http://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5039-MarijuanaEcologicalBenefits.htm
It's a conspiracy, man! (To keep it illegal, that is.)
Quote from: Ruby on August 15, 2010, 05:06:23 PM
Judgement :? No judgement here, I'm all for whatever works for the individual. :lulz:
That being said, is there a limit?
http://www.filmcritic.com/features/2009/08/drug-addicts-in-movies
However, more to the point:
http://sleep-disorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_drugs_and_herbs_affect_dreams
http://stason.org/TULARC/mind/dreaming/1-5-Do-substances-like-drugs-herbs-and-foods-affect-our-dr.html
Mind you, I'm not personally anyone's enemy, but rather individual ignorance is, and to self-destruct is ignorant.
Would I use drugs? Hells bells, of course, but, within my own reasoning.
My conclusion:
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2002/09/12/grob_interview
http://www.tclondon.org.uk/pages/home/drug-types/ecstacy.php
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/pressroom/pressrelease/pr_november07_01.cfm
:fuckoff: INDEED
Quote from: Ruby on August 15, 2010, 05:33:21 PM
On a more 'positively effective' note, this is one of my most favorite topics of all:
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/ecstasy.asp
http://www.no-problem-marriage-counseling.com/couple-massage.html
Again, I am all for whatever may work for individual, um, needs. :mrgreen:
http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/marijuana.asp
http://coedmagazine.com/2009/09/24/10-major-health-benefits-of-marijuana
http://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5039-MarijuanaEcologicalBenefits.htm
It's a conspiracy, man! (To keep it illegal, that is.)
tl;dr
Only joking, you obviously took some time and trouble putting this together, so the least I could do was check it out (for bullshit, and inconsistancies) but all the info seems to be pretty accurate. But the best bit, (for me) was learning a new term of drug classification. "Empathogenic Entactogens" I love this term, and shall use it to impress the fuck out of chicks in Nightclubs, who may be rolling a little, in the hope of getting them back to my psychedelic Luurve Palace for some seedy, meaningless sex. Thanks.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 15, 2010, 01:28:13 AM
No, it's not. But it was only really brought up because the OP was saying all that "Oh, I won't get addicted" stuff, that is usually a pre-amble to addiction. So the point was worth labouring on, and I hope he's taken it on board.
I'd just as soon get back to Psychedelics. Heroin is boring.
I just thoguht it would make a nice thread on it's own, without having the stuff about psychedelics to interrupt it.
So start a Heroin thread, or better still, (cuz smack really is boring) a Class A thread, maybe theme it towards the more dangerous, or less well known drugs, in an attempt to get some info on them all in one place. For instance, Information on Drugs like the Cranobolic Bi-sturbiles, such as Co-Crackamethyl-triptylot (About which little is really known) could be collated, posted, and referenced for anyone to find.
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
Quote from: Rainy Day Pixie on August 14, 2010, 12:11:35 PM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 14, 2010, 06:30:17 AM
Hey, we talked about all the horribleness of drugs, I think it's only fair to say, my truth, that I had a great time on drugs, sorry if this spoils anything.
The OP was asking about a possible genetic flaw in his family, Lys, and this can be a very serious subject for someone that doesnt want to end up nuts.
Read the topic properly before being an irresponsible fuck.
This isnt a general debate about drugs. This is a serious personal question, you douchebag.
Sure, that's fair enough. If I had gotten in earlier, I would have elaborated more, but as I said, I feel everything that needs to be said, had already been said.
I'm not saying he *should* do them, I'm not condoning anything, I'm just *saying*, drug's can fuck you up, but I've taken enough for 100 hippies and I'm fine.
If your family has a history of mental illness, it's not the most advisable thing to take things like LSD or Mushrooms.
But I know someone who had a history of scitzophrenia who took DMT once and his scitzophrenia disappeared into thin air.
At the end of the day, drugs are drugs and if you don't have a strong mental constitution, they could fuck you up, drugs do different things to different people and really, it's hard to say what will happen to anyone who's never taken a particular drug before until they have it.
Happy now?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 14, 2010, 12:29:34 PM
Indeed. It's one thing when we are talking philosophically and politically about drugs and drug policy. But in this instance, we're dealing with a real person, with a family history of mental illness, contemplating doing drugs that have shown to have some links to mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. So congrats to you Lys, that you've survived mostly intact, so far, from your drug use. But please think about the example you could possibly be setting for others before you open your big mouth.
I'm saying, I agree with everything that's been said so far. I'm not saying he should do it or to follow in my example.
This thread has been a great source of info in my opinion, I just wish I could have gotten in earlier to say it myself, and I'm just putting my feelings out there.
I actually didn't think Lys' post was douchy at all. If there's going to be a fair discussion/debate about a subject it's important that all sides be heard. And I agree with him that just because some drugs are bad news for many people, that doesn't equate to a blanket condemnation, it just means that individuals need to be informed and careful about the choices they make in that regard. Hell, I don't even do drugs (anymore) and I think that's mostly a better choice for me but there are people I know for whom drugs have been helpful in their personal development (again, in a limited individual context) and there are even a few people I know who would be utterly intolerable without drugs.
That said, if I had a family history of a schizophrenia and had read reliable studies that showed a potential link between hallucinogenic drugs and active schizophrenia in people who had a latent genetic disposition towards that condition, I'd probably be careful to the point of abstaining.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 14, 2010, 11:03:16 PM
On the question of Psychedlics/Schizophrenia, Psychiatrists are unable to distinguish between a Schizophrenic episode, and a mushroom or acid trip. Just saying.
:cn:
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
"true" drug information
It doesn't take very long to get the slant of that website. Particularily when there is an entire section on how to avoid getting arrested, get the best of cops, etc., etc.,
Biased site is biased.
Indeed. Anecdotal/experiential evidence is useful in context, but if that's ALL there is it paints a very incomplete picture.
I've been looking like kerazy for the book that I read it in, but my flats like a pigsty, my head is a shed, and, well, excuses mean nothing. Having said that, it will turn up sooner or later, and when it does, rest assured, I'll post a link to it, or reference the source. Failing that, I'll take a bunch of mushrooms, go to the Doctors, and tell him I'm feeling a little strained, and see what he diagnoses.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 16, 2010, 02:07:44 PM
I've been looking like kerazy for the book that I read it in, but my flats like a pigsty, my head is a shed, and, well, excuses mean nothing. Having said that, it will turn up sooner or later, and when it does, rest assured, I'll post a link to it, or reference the source. Failing that, I'll take a bunch of mushrooms, go to the Doctors, and tell him I'm feeling a little strained, and see what he diagnoses.
Well a clinical research project is a bit more rigorous than an office-visit. And they are very typically longitudinal studies, which means they happen over the course of an expansive amount of time. Also, these studies will have protocols for weeding out false positives. It would take an awful lot of very clever spoofing to throw off a longitudinal study.
Quote from: DALEKK on August 13, 2010, 09:52:54 AM
Ok, so I really want to try shrooms, LSD and MDMA(all of them mainly out of curiousity), but I have a problem. My dad has a mild case of schizophrenia, my aunt is a total schizophrenic and his mother also had schizophrenia. My cousins(aunt's children) are ok, and they've done drugs. I've smoked really potent pot, and in Amsterdam I ate space-cake and it was great - no side effects. What are the risks of different drugs to trigger schizophrenia for me?
personally, I would avoid LSD and shrooms until you're a bit older - IIRC the risk of triggering psychedelics triggering latent schizophrenia goes down in your 20s.
The connection between psychedelics and schizophrenia is fairly well documented, but I don't recall reading anything about it being triggered by MDMA.
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 03:51:07 AM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
yeah, we all know beating a dead horse is sadonecrobestiality.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 16, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 03:51:07 AM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
yeah, we all know beating a dead horse is sadonecrobestiality.
I'm still baffled as to why bestiality is included. Are the beatings precoital?
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 09:21:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 16, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 03:51:07 AM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
yeah, we all know beating a dead horse is sadonecrobestiality.
I'm still baffled as to why bestiality is included. Are the beatings precoital?
Technically, what he said was "anal type sex with the deceased". No horses were involved.
The proper term would be Necro-Sadistic Equestrian. Otherwise, at best, you're "raping a dead horse".
And I copyrighted the phrase "raping a dead horse" in June of 2000. Please cease and desist it's implied usage. :lulz:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 16, 2010, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 16, 2010, 02:07:44 PM
I've been looking like kerazy for the book that I read it in, but my flats like a pigsty, my head is a shed, and, well, excuses mean nothing. Having said that, it will turn up sooner or later, and when it does, rest assured, I'll post a link to it, or reference the source. Failing that, I'll take a bunch of mushrooms, go to the Doctors, and tell him I'm feeling a little strained, and see what he diagnoses.
Well a clinical research project is a bit more rigorous than an office-visit. And they are very typically longitudinal studies, which means they happen over the course of an expansive amount of time. Also, these studies will have protocols for weeding out false positives. It would take an awful lot of very clever spoofing to throw off a longitudinal study.
OK then, what about three times a week, to different Doctors, for the next three months?
Quote from: Iron Sulfide on August 16, 2010, 10:17:12 PM
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 09:21:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 16, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 03:51:07 AM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
yeah, we all know beating a dead horse is sadonecrobestiality.
I'm still baffled as to why bestiality is included. Are the beatings precoital?
Technically, what he said was "anal type sex with the deceased". No horses were involved.
The proper term would be Necro-Sadistic Equestrian. Otherwise, at best, you're "raping a dead horse".
And I copyrighted the phrase "raping a dead horse" in June of 2000. Please cease and desist it's implied usage. :lulz:
Raping a dead horse implies a lack of otherwise available consent. And as the fucker is dead, it can't withhold
consent, therefore it is technically consenting to sex. So you'd better get a move on, before a Frenchman comes to eat it. (The Horse, you pervert!)
Quote from: BadBeast on August 16, 2010, 11:27:29 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 16, 2010, 06:36:12 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 16, 2010, 02:07:44 PM
I've been looking like kerazy for the book that I read it in, but my flats like a pigsty, my head is a shed, and, well, excuses mean nothing. Having said that, it will turn up sooner or later, and when it does, rest assured, I'll post a link to it, or reference the source. Failing that, I'll take a bunch of mushrooms, go to the Doctors, and tell him I'm feeling a little strained, and see what he diagnoses.
Well a clinical research project is a bit more rigorous than an office-visit. And they are very typically longitudinal studies, which means they happen over the course of an expansive amount of time. Also, these studies will have protocols for weeding out false positives. It would take an awful lot of very clever spoofing to throw off a longitudinal study.
OK then, what about three times a week, to different Doctors, for the next three months?
You're only one person. And your paper trail would eventually, and probably pretty quickly, out you. Fail.
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 09:21:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 16, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
Quote from: Risus on August 16, 2010, 03:51:07 AM
Quote from: Apikoros II on August 16, 2010, 01:29:15 AM
I think I referenced it in an earlier post in this thread, so without being a sodomistic necrophiliac (ie beating a dead horse) check out www.erowind.org for all your true drug information and stories...
www.erowid.org
User submitted doesn't necessarily mean it's reliable.
I'm also not sure what the sodomy or the philia have anything to do with beating the dead horse.
yeah, we all know beating a dead horse is sadonecrobestiality.
I'm still baffled as to why bestiality is included. Are the beatings precoital?
Because sadism is a sexual act for the sadist.
I'm not a chemist but i thought the actual details of the substances on Erowid were accurate, and the user submitted stuff was explicitly labelled as such (with the standard disclamers).
It has a clear bias and agenda that is pro-drugs and it is very anti-police. I also find the tiny little section on addiction to be unbalanced. For hell's sake it is promoting "do-it-yourself detox", which is an awful idea. Also, it has some very outdated sources. There has been a lot of research done on drugs and drug addiction so I don't know why they are relying on information from 1992. It feels like they are really just considering data and information that fits their agenda and paradigm.
Most (not all) of the technical/chemical information on erowid concerning specific drugs is accurate, but that's about as far as it goes. Most of the other stuff is hippie-dippy bullshit.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 18, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
It has a clear bias and agenda that is pro-drugs and it is very anti-police. I also find the tiny little section on addiction to be unbalanced. For hell's sake it is promoting "do-it-yourself detox", which is an awful idea. Also, it has some very outdated sources. There has been a lot of research done on drugs and drug addiction so I don't know why they are relying on information from 1992. It feels like they are really just considering data and information that fits their agenda and paradigm.
Erowid was a wiki style setup before wikipedia. User managed info pages, with all of the problems. There is good hard info there, but it's been drowned in many years worth of superficial, "LULZ, my Salvia TRIP was AW3S0me, I allmost fell down the St4iRs!".
It's like the reverse problem of reading occult books and eastern mysticism, plucking the pearls from the muck instead of gold from fools gold.
"Pro-drugs" is an awful, naivette, and generalized position, which glosses over hundreds of years of of chemical research and neuro-psycho-somatics. Basically turning RAW's phrase "War on (Some) Drugs" into "I'm Pro-(my favorite, but I won't mention those)-Drugs!" in order to give useful idiots a warcry to scare the rest of the Machine
TM with.. It makes people sound like the Tea Party.
I'm with L.E.A.P, I take the view of Anti-Prohibitionists mostly. If we take all of the actual physical real harm involved in the War on (Some) Drugs situation, and venn-diagram out the root causes the act of keeping these substances in the black market via force of threat of arrest drives the violence and dishonesty in the communities, as well as in the ranks of those selected to enforce this threat of arrest.
Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/16/georgia.botched.raid/index.html
The city of Atlanta will pay $4.9 million to the family of Kathryn Johnston, a 92-year-old woman killed in a botched November 2006 drug raid, Mayor Kasim Reed's office announced Monday.
Johnston was shot to death by narcotics officers conducting a "no-knock" warrant. Investigators later determined the raid was based on falsified paperwork stating that illegal drugs were present in the home.
...
Last year, former officer Jason Smith was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison, while former officers Greg Junnier and Arthur Tesler were sentenced to six and five years, respectively.
All three men pleaded guilty to federal charges of conspiracy to violate civil rights resulting in death. Smith and Junnier also pleaded guilty to state charges of voluntary manslaughter and making false statements, and Smith admitted to planting bags of marijuana in Johnston's home after her death.
...
Tesler was convicted on one state count of making false statements after filling out an affidavit saying that an informant had purchased crack cocaine at Johnston's home, in a crime-plagued neighborhood near downtown Atlanta.
The informant, however, denied ever having been to Johnston's home, leading to probes by federal and state authorities as well as the breakup and reorganization of the narcotics unit.
Tesler's state conviction was reversed on appeal. According to their plea agreements, Junnier and Smith will serve their state sentences concurrently with the federal sentence.
Shortly after the probe began, Junnier began cooperating with authorities, providing "valuable assistance in the investigation and prosecution of Smith and Tesler," according to a statement issued last year by federal prosecutors. Smith also cooperated to a lesser extent, and both men's sentences were reduced in exchange for their cooperation.
Prosecutors have said that officers regularly presented false information to obtain warrants and that they cut corners to make more time for lucrative side jobs providing additional security to businesses, often while on duty, and receiving cash payments.
The investigation into the botched raid also led to guilty pleas from the police sergeant in charge of the narcotics unit and another officer who admitted to extortion, authorities said.
By the way, a Google Timeline search for +"botched drug raid" (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&tbo=1&prmdo=1&as_qdr=all&tbs=tl%3A1%2Ctl_num%3A100&q=%2B%22botched+drug+raid%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=) results in about 3,790 results from 1990-2010.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 18, 2010, 01:51:09 PM
Most (not all) of the technical/chemical information on erowid concerning specific drugs is accurate, but that's about as far as it goes. Most of the other stuff is hippie-dippy bullshit.
Erowid has been useful for me for at least one thing, suggesting to add Celestial Seasonings Mandarin Orange Spice tea to my shrooms-tea. It is 1) a pretty damn tasty tea, and 2) combined really well with the shrooms and 3) now every time I drink it, I'm reminded of that wonderful afternoon :)
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 18, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
It has a clear bias and agenda that is pro-drugs and it is very anti-police. I also find the tiny little section on addiction to be unbalanced. For hell's sake it is promoting "do-it-yourself detox", which is an awful idea. Also, it has some very outdated sources. There has been a lot of research done on drugs and drug addiction so I don't know why they are relying on information from 1992. It feels like they are really just considering data and information that fits their agenda and paradigm.
Erowid has been a huge source of information for me, mind you, not *the* only source, but a big source, and i don't think it is "pro-drug" so much as it is "pro-information" and not so much "anti-police" as it is "anti-prohibition". Though if you can show me where you get this idea of it being "anti-police" I'd be grateful to see this.
It does have lot's of warnings on many of the chemicals there and it tells you what combination of drugs are bad and how to look after yourself and your friends who are on drugs, something a lot of what I think you'd call "non-biased" sites would rarely tell you.
And what's wrong with do-it-yourself detox? I do it, I'm fine. Why pay someone to tell you not to do drugs?
Quote from: Placid Dingo on August 18, 2010, 10:44:06 AM
I'm not a chemist but i thought the actual details of the substances on Erowid were accurate, and the user submitted stuff was explicitly labelled as such (with the standard disclamers).
Their ayahuasca recipes are shit. They have some good chemical information, and a lot of trip reports (and I do think a database of trip reports is a useful thing to have around, for everyone, those interested in using a drug, those wanting to prevent use of a drug, and those considering marketing a drug)
Quote from: Lysergic on August 19, 2010, 01:44:32 AM
Erowid has been a huge source of information for me, mind you, not *the* only source, but a big source, and i don't think it is "pro-drug" so much as it is "pro-information" and not so much "anti-police" as it is "anti-prohibition". Though if you can show me where you get this idea of it being "anti-police" I'd be grateful to see this.
One of the things I am acutely aware of, and must be aware of, in my position, is messaging and messages that are intentionally or unintentionally sent to kids when it comes to substances, legal and otherwise. If I were a 15 year old looking at Erowid, the overall feel of that website is very obviously tipped towards messaging that validates drug use. The section on treatment is very weak, and as I mentioned has some very old sources. The section about police is all about how to work against the police. It offers little to no information on the great work police do to help addicted kids in crisis, or the police officers who help link kids with treatment, or the police who work in communities to keep kids safer. But of course, all of those types of things are initiatives to get kids clean or keep kids off of drugs, and if the site were more balanced, those perspectives would be published.
QuoteIt does have lot's of warnings on many of the chemicals there and it tells you what combination of drugs are bad and how to look after yourself and your friends who are on drugs, something a lot of what I think you'd call "non-biased" sites would rarely tell you.
[citation needed]
QuoteAnd what's wrong with do-it-yourself detox? I do it, I'm fine. Why pay someone to tell you not to do drugs?
With all due respect, I have no ability to assess how "fine" you are or not simply from these letters on the screen. But let me assume that you are "fine", you would not be the norm. Someone who is severely addicted to alcohol and other drugs requires professional intervention. Just like someone who has a mental health issue requires professional help. It is a rare event when someone can just therapize themselves out of a significant mental health issue.
And it isn't just about telling someone "telling you not to do drugs." Honestly, as someone who has expressed interest in being a counselor, I think you need to have a deeper understanding of what drug treatment actually entails.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 18, 2010, 01:37:23 PM
It has a clear bias and agenda that is pro-drugs and it is very anti-police. I also find the tiny little section on addiction to be unbalanced. For hell's sake it is promoting "do-it-yourself detox", which is an awful idea. Also, it has some very outdated sources. There has been a lot of research done on drugs and drug addiction so I don't know why they are relying on information from 1992. It feels like they are really just considering data and information that fits their agenda and paradigm.
I think that's mostly because its an informational site about drugs, their usage and user experiences. I wouldn't expect a site like that to tell me about drug prevention, addiction etc... just like I wouldn't expect a drug treatment/rehab site to have cool trip stories, or a discussion about how many people smoke pot without becoming couch potatoes that jabber incoherently about being one with the Universe.
It would be nice if both pro and anti drug sites covered the truth from both sides of the argument. Highly unlikely, but it would be nice.
I'll have to agree with this, erewid does seem a little too "user friendly", and if this were your only source for information on drugs, then you would be seriously under informed. As someone who has regularly used drugs of all kinds for about 30 years, I am horrified with the enthusiasm kids have today for getting totally wankered on any kind of shit, with no thought of the dangers involved.
When I was 15-16, things were a lot more discrete, there was a bigger choice of hashish then, with maybe a choice of 5 or 6 different quality presses, from Lebanese, to Afghani Black, about 3 different grades of Morroccan, Pollen, hash oil, even the occasional bit of Temple ball. But all that's around today are domestic super strength skunkweeds. Not that it's not good quality, but it's just so available. And strong. No mellow lighter strains. And this is all the last two generations of kids have known. Zombie kit.
But the most disturbing thing is the availability of cocaine and heroin. No longer the domain of the dedicated injectors, smokable Afghan heroin has washed over the whole scene like a brown wave of crime, violence, and desperation. Smokable heroin goes so nicely hand in hand with the superior quality coke that's around, and the favoured method, is to wash it up into stone, and smoke it. I didn't even see cocaine until I was about 20. And even then, it was £70 or £80 a gram. Too elitist for my pocket. Now, it's twice as good, and £35-40 a gram, and it seems to bolster the whole scene up with the big city gangs descending on small towns, and just flooding the whole place with cheap coke.
Then, after 9 or 10 months, suddenly, the Heroin starts to appear but by then, it's insinuated it's way into every little corner of the scene. Nasty, exploitative, and dangerous. And it stinks. You can smell it wafting out of windows, or as someone walks past you in the street.
Over the years, I've learned (and only by the skin of my teeth) that once you start smoking rocks, there isn't enough cocaine in the whole fucking world to fill that bottomless hole.
But you can't tell them that. They look at you as if you're some sort of crazy old hippy. Then you watch them all spiral down the same fucking sinkhole, and get swallowed up. Scary shit, and I know the ropes. These kids don't have a fucking chance, some of them.
And the whole "get detoxed, stay clean for a couple of months, then have a spanner full of brown, just for old times sake" claims more lives than I care to think of. These cleaned up junkies who would do maybe £200 of heroin in a day, before detox, are doing a ten bag, and dropping like a sack of shit. Mostly dead. And every one of them still saying they have it all under control. Then winding up dead a few days later in some boarded up crack house.
Me? I can take it or leave it. So I leave it. But I've got 25 years of watching good mates die under my belt. Mostly stayed away from serious crime, done a few months prison. Wised up, and stuck too what I'm comfortable with. Recreationals. Occasional MDMA, Speed, mushrooms in season, none of which is going to start causing me problems. But all those kids are doing the full gamete of recs, including coke, every weekend, and drinking like there's no tomorrow. (Which for more and more of them is the case) I'm glad I'm not young and green today. I help where I can, with good advice, and counselling when it seems to be appropriate.
But my heart bleeds for the ones who are marked for it. You know the ones I mean. The ones who didn't get into it, as I did, to have a good time, bouncing around like a non-stop partying fuck monkey. The ones who get drawn into it because their lives are shit to start with. They haven't got any point of anchorage, no experience of anything different, and before long, no aspirations to do anything other than what they are doing. They are the ones who are going to get sucked in, chewed up, and (if they are lucky) spat out 25 years later, with absolutely no chance at starting again. They are the ones who are going to have that monkey on their backs for the rest of their lives. And there is nothing there for them to grab hold of if they want to jump off, once the ride has started.
And Queen start playing in my brain like a perverse head splinter.
Badda Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Another one bites the dust! And another one down, another one down, another one bites the dust.. . . .
Same old Gods, New Music, the bridge is out, and it's getting dark. Dangerous times, so walk in the light, people. Even if it's just a dull glow. Don't lose sight of it, because that darkness is fucking endless. So Be safe.
This thread has developed somewhat, and really ought to be split or renamed. All this doom and gloom will be putting righteous seekers off their mushrooms, and that would really be a shame.
Tripping is as far away from that shit, as it's possible to get. Tripping is the only way many people are ever going to see some really important, life changing shit. Not everyone, true, but in the grand scheme of things, it's relatively harmless, and usually leaves us better people, for the experience. Word.
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Obviously, neither would I, but while that stuff is good fun, and quite distracting, if you double up what you've already taken at this point, all that illusiary stuff kind of falls away, and you can really open all kinds of shit up. It's not rare to have some kind of epiphany if you just keep chugging them down until you find a level you can really operate on. The thing is, epiphany is usually a really personal thing, and when you try telling anyone about it the next day, you just end up sounding like you fried your brain. That's why all the ancient Mystery traditions are all couched in allegory and symbolism. You can't really convey something like that in words that other people take seriously. Our subconscious minds operate on symbolism, rather than language, so for a while, we get to read these patterns, and symbols, and their meanings, and how they act as a dynamic in our conscious mind. I'm not getting all Tim Leary here, just saying that there's fucking universes of untapped data that we can have a go on for a bit, if we're careful. And that can be really quite an eye opener. Or it can drop you splat bang into 6 hours of The Fear™. Which is still an eye opener, just not a pleasant one. That fear is the price it sometimes costs for tweaking our wetware like that. You have to speculate to accumulate, and those complete screamers, are pretty fucking hellish. That's as pineal as I'm letting meself get tonight though, before the acrid stench of patchouli starts leaching out of this thread.
Too late already? Shit like, faar out man. chill yer boots, and groove. . . . look at the colours,
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 24, 2010, 05:08:27 PM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 19, 2010, 01:44:32 AM
Erowid has been a huge source of information for me, mind you, not *the* only source, but a big source, and i don't think it is "pro-drug" so much as it is "pro-information" and not so much "anti-police" as it is "anti-prohibition". Though if you can show me where you get this idea of it being "anti-police" I'd be grateful to see this.
One of the things I am acutely aware of, and must be aware of, in my position, is messaging and messages that are intentionally or unintentionally sent to kids when it comes to substances, legal and otherwise. If I were a 15 year old looking at Erowid, the overall feel of that website is very obviously tipped towards messaging that validates drug use. The section on treatment is very weak, and as I mentioned has some very old sources. The section about police is all about how to work against the police. It offers little to no information on the great work police do to help addicted kids in crisis, or the police officers who help link kids with treatment, or the police who work in communities to keep kids safer. But of course, all of those types of things are initiatives to get kids clean or keep kids off of drugs, and if the site were more balanced, those perspectives would be published.
A lot of the information there is user contributed. I'm sure if you were to give them such links and your views, they would most likely publish it.
And on the flipside regarding police, have *you* ever been dealt with by police after being caught with drugs?
I have. And it's no fun, they don't seem to give a shit about your welfare at all, they don't treat you as somebody who needs help, they treat you like a fucking common criminal, no better then a murderer or a child rapist, so it's good to know your rights when you're being fucked over by police.
QuoteQuoteIt does have lot's of warnings on many of the chemicals there and it tells you what combination of drugs are bad and how to look after yourself and your friends who are on drugs, something a lot of what I think you'd call "non-biased" sites would rarely tell you.
[citation needed]
One such example- http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/pharmacology/pharmacology_enzymes1.shtml
And another- http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_health2.shtml
And this- http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info8.shtml
There are many more if you bother to have a proper look around.
QuoteQuoteAnd what's wrong with do-it-yourself detox? I do it, I'm fine. Why pay someone to tell you not to do drugs?
With all due respect, I have no ability to assess how "fine" you are or not simply from these letters on the screen. But let me assume that you are "fine", you would not be the norm. Someone who is severely addicted to alcohol and other drugs requires professional intervention. Just like someone who has a mental health issue requires professional help. It is a rare event when someone can just therapize themselves out of a significant mental health issue.
And it isn't just about telling someone "telling you not to do drugs." Honestly, as someone who has expressed interest in being a counselor, I think you need to have a deeper understanding of what drug treatment actually entails.
Oh no, with all due respect, you're right. Some people *do* need professional help getting off drugs. Perhaps even a majority of people.
But sometimes professional help is the worst thing you can do.
I had several friends who were/are addicted to herion.
I don't know what they do in the states, but here in australia, if you have a heroin addiction, they give you methadone to replace it if you're in some sort of treatment program.
Having done neither of them, I can't say too much, other then what I've read, but from my understanding, Methadone is actually *worse* then herion, and really doesn't help you get off opiates, it's like replacing alcohol with methylated spirits for an alcoholic. (Not to mention, the relapse rate is pitifully high)
On the other hand, there is strong evidence to support that Iboga is extremely effective at getting herion users off herion quickly and pretty safely (given, it's not *completely* safe, but that's mainly because it's illegal and where ever you can get it would not be "prescribed" properly by a medical authority who has researched it and knows how much to give) and it has helped two of my friends get off herion for good, but it's as mentioned in the brackets, illegal to possess and get for fucked up reasons, and yet professional health clinics still push the methadone.
I really believe that drug-treatment facilities and options should be rethunk, if we truely are serious about helping people get off drugs and we need to stop treating drug users like common criminals, there are good *people* who get addicted to drugs, and they should be treated as PATIENTS who needs HELP and not thrown behind bars and left to suffer.
I still don't see what's wrong with trying do-it-yourself detox as a *first* line of sobriety, and failing that, seeking professional help.
In fact, that happens a lot of the time.
In your line of business, all you see are the failed attempts at self-detoxing. You're blind to those who are successful because hey, if they were successful, you never see them, right?
To be able to "do" (UK) Police properly, you have to see them not as people, but something else. Police. They are conditioned intensly to produce a very particular mindset. Not bright, with a talent for following proceedure. If you know what their "proceedure" consists of, you are halfway there. They respond to aggression, by ramping the odds up so high, that any raise to their raise, will very likely end in you being maced, or tasered. Not like the old days, when you could go toe to toe, with an obsequious little dogs cock of a Scuffer, and while you would eventually get arrested, there was always a chance of chinning one of them, and having it away before reinforcements arrived. Now, you even look at them sideways, they get all bristly and start sticking their chests out, and trying to walk like the self assured, confident well balanced humans, that they are so obviously not. So nowadays, you have to comply. As long as you haven't done anything heinous, or got a couple dozen pills in your pocket, you should be fine. Whatever they ask you, they will not believe, or take your word for anything.
"Got anything you shouldn't have in your pockets, Mate"? If you say "Yes", and tell them you have a blim of hash, and hand it over, they'll still search you. First they ask "Got anything sharp in your pockets"? Which means, in Pigspeak, "Got any dirty used syringes in your pocket that I might prick my worthless hide on, and catch teh aids"? Same response, if you say no, they don't say, "Ok, "I won't bother searching you then". They say, "Because if I search you, and find something sharp, I'm not going to be very happy".
Fuck him. You're not here to make him happy. Just hold your hands out, and say "Take your chances then". They do not want to arrest you, if they can help it. But they will if you give them any reason to.
Be outwardly helpful, submit to a patdown search if they want to do that. protesting will get you nowhere. It's going to happen. If you have been drinking at all, they will try to get a reaction out of you. They will push you to a certain point, then if you get at all antsy with them, they will arrest you. (This is where I always got caught out) Fighting with Police when drunk, always ends up with a kicking, and a night in the cells, and possible charges in the morning. I was over 30 before I would learn to let it ride over me.
Smile at their clumsy attempts to get a rise. It's not personal, it's what their proceedure tells them to do. As you don't react, they tick the boxes, and let you go. (Keep your fucking blim for themselves though)
"I'm going to give you a "Street caution" for the bit of blow, Ok? Like you have any choice.
I have on occaision said, "No, if you're just going to steal my pot, I want a proper caution down at the Station, from your Desk Sergeant. With the paperwork" They reply, "just fuck off home, you Joker". Off you go. It could always be so much worse. They rarely wander far from proceedure. They are lazy, and they are
not very bright.
Let them maintain their illusion of absolute power. It reassures them, and doesn't last long. If you challenge it in any way, they get very nervous. Anxious, even, and tend to over-react. Mace, Tasers, pain, they have proceedure for that. So just treat them like automatons. It's not you, it's them.
They are the maladjusted cowardly fat ginger kid, whose dinner money you used to take from them every morning. The one who never learned to stand up for himself, and decided that he would never be bullied again! By anyone.
Shiny boots, and a Uniform does strange things to this type of person. Lets them get petty vengeance on the rest of the world, for their own shortcomings. They become Uber Bullys. Total control freaks. . Armed Thugs, itching for an excuse to exercise their proceedure with prejudice. Watch out for this type. He wants to slap you about, and probably have sex with you. He won't, but he wants to. And it makes his luurve for you come out in abberational behaviour. Like body searching, Handcuffing you needlessly tightly. Sneering. Making really unfunny jokes, that only he will get. So he can pretend to feel superior. For a while.
But you both know it's a shallow facade. Braggadocio, not to impress you, but to enable him to maintain his erection when he gets home to his beard Wifey, and tells her what a big brave man he's been at work today. "Ooh, My big strong Boar of a man, Stick it in me" She'll say, in the same bored tone every time, as she files her nails. "Grunt, Chuff, Splat, Snore." And it's all done. Done
to procedure. Sometimes he gets her to sign a form, with boxes to tick, for service provided. But mostly, he'll roll off, and fall asleep. (I once had a dalliance with a Scuffer's ex wife) They always have ex-wives. They put them on a kind of permanent marital bail, with conditions, like curfew, not allowed to have friends, a job, or their own money. Blahddy blahhdee bleaah. I'm bored of talking about these dropkicked beetlefuckers now. Depressing me. Hope this helps. :D
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 04:57:00 AM
To be able to "do" (UK) Police properly, you have to see them not as people, but something else. Police. They are conditioned intensly to produce a very particular mindset. Not bright, with a talent for following proceedure. If you know what their "proceedure" consists of, you are halfway there. They respond to aggression, by ramping the odds up so high, that any raise to their raise, will very likely end in you being maced, or tasered. Not like the old days, when you could go toe to toe, with an obsequious little dogs cock of a Scuffer, and while you would eventually get arrested, there was always a chance of chinning one of them, and having it away before reinforcements arrived. Now, you even look at them sideways, they get all bristly and start sticking their chests out, and trying to walk like the self assured, confident well balanced humans, that they are so obviously not. So nowadays, you have to comply. As long as you haven't done anything heinous, or got a couple dozen pills in your pocket, you should be fine. Whatever they ask you, they will not believe, or take your word for anything.
"Got anything you shouldn't have in your pockets, Mate"? If you say "Yes", and tell them you have a blim of hash, and hand it over, they'll still search you. First they ask "Got anything sharp in your pockets"? Which means, in Pigspeak, "Got any dirty used syringes in your pocket that I might prick my worthless hide on, and catch teh aids"? Same response, if you say no, they don't say, ok, "I won't bother searching you then" they say, "because if I search you, and find something sharp, I'm not going to be very happy". Fuck him. You're not here to make him happy. Just hold your hands out, and say "Take your chances then". They do not want to arrest you, if they can help it. But they will if you give them any reason to. Be outwardly helpful, submit to a patdown search if they want to do that. protesting will get you nowhere. It's going to happen. If you have been drinking at all, they will try to get a reaction out of you. They will push you to a certain point, then if you get at all antsy with them, they will arrest you. (This is where I always got caught out) Fighting with
Eerie that, it's pretty much the same procedure over here.
When I've been in trouble with the law, I try to be as nice and courteous as possible and not act aggressively, hoping that some element of their humanity will see that I'm not a threat to them.
No such luck, they'll throw you on the floor if you look at them funny or ask them a simple question when it comes to your rights, they won't give a fuck about what you have to say, they've already made up their minds about you.
I've found the best solution when dealing with police is to shut the fuck up and not say *anything*, just do as they ask and *don't* get friendly with them, police are *not* your friend, they're doing a job and they're programmed to do it in a certain way.
Everything to them is suspicious, they've been conditioned to think the worst of people.
Another thing with UK Police, that isn't so prevalent in US Police forces, is their Socialising is done exclusively with other Police Officers. Their personality (or lack of it) means they cannot relate to normal people. They can't stop being mistrustful, nosy, aloof, and superior. Which makes them piss poor company for anyone else. And if they are out, say at a Club, and they are recognised, they are in trouble. They do not have Uniform on. But they carry themselves like they are cock of the block still. They are fair game at these times. Vulnerable, because they aren't tooled up, or wearing those ridiculous stab jackets. If they get themselves into a fight, they are on their own. They can't ring up the Station for backup. Procedure would include their own arrest. And that isn't a good career move. So they are always edgy. They lie, about their job, if asked by anyone. They are told to do this, because it puts them in a vulnerable position. Where they might be targetted by a Villain, and forced to compromise themselves. Or the Force. Not much use to anyone, for anything much, any of them, IMO.
"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence, if you fail to mention something now, on which you later rely on in Court. Do you understand"?
And they can't Arrest you, until you have indicated that you understand. If you play "thick as shit" and get them to try and explain it, in normal English, they get really pissy. I have a Police interview Tape, of me getting interviewed. I can legally post a script of it, for educational purposes, if I don't post the Coppers name, but the Copyright belongs to the Chief Constable, and I'm breaking the Law if I play it to anyone but my Legal representative. (I might upload it anyway) But it's quite funny in places.
Please do, I need a good laugh :D
Okay, I'll dig it up, find a tape player, (remember them?) and upload it in the next couple of days.
Thanks, look forward to it
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 06:06:22 AM
Okay, I'll dig it up, find a tape player, (remember them?) and upload it in the next couple of days.
Ancient Sorcery!!!!!
BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!
It's ancient, Japanese Analogick! Do not mock the magnetickal properties of the compact ones.
Pray that the Great God Dolby shall reduce the hissing one to silence, and the monstrous Eight Track returneth not!
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 05:45:31 AM
Another thing with UK Police, that isn't so prevalent in US Police forces, is their Socialising is done exclusively with other Police Officers. Their personality (or lack of it) means they cannot relate to normal people. They can't stop being mistrustful, nosy, aloof, and superior. Which makes them piss poor company for anyone else. And if they are out, say at a Club, and they are recognised, they are in trouble. They do not have Uniform on. But they carry themselves like they are cock of the block still. They are fair game at these times. Vulnerable, because they aren't tooled up, or wearing those ridiculous stab jackets. If they get themselves into a fight, they are on their own. They can't ring up the Station for backup. Procedure would include their own arrest. And that isn't a good career move. So they are always edgy. They lie, about their job, if asked by anyone. They are told to do this, because it puts them in a vulnerable position. Where they might be targetted by a Villain, and forced to compromise themselves. Or the Force. Not much use to anyone, for anything much, any of them, IMO.
US cops it depends a lot on where you are. Most of them will happily socialize with you when they are not busy. It is a very good idea to do so. If they know you they are not going to keep from arresting you, or even beating you, but they are less likely to take non hostile actions as hostile. And they aren't anywhere near as likely to beat you without you having provoked it somewhat intentionally. Naturally it is a good idea to watch your mouth.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?
Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:42:54 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?
Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.
I'd say, if that reality is real, in the sense that you can use it when you are not high, then it was an insight, whether that insight is spiritual or not really depends on how you look at it. I really think only spiritual people can have spiritual experiences. I'm open to being disproven by someone saying they had a spiritual experience but are an atheist, however if you don't believe in spirit, how can you have a spiritual experience? That'd be like me saying I met a sparkley vampire the other day. "Well, was it a real sparkley vampire?" "Of course not, I don't believe in vampires, it just behaved in exactly the way people who believe in sparkley vampires say they behave, but it was actually a hallucination" (or however Atheists would explain what seemed in every respect to be a spiritual experience, I'm not Atheist, and that is a really hard mind tunnel for me to get into)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:52:31 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:42:54 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:26:35 AM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Now, I love a good once or twice-yearly encounter with shrooms (pretty much the only drug I indulge in anymore besides beer), but I wouldn't say that breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles are "really important, life changing shit".
Shrooms is very situational. If I take them and then go to a rave, or play videogames, or stare at the wall, they are a lot of fun, but, like you said, nothing transcendental. If I take them with the intention of having a spiritual experience, and set out to do so (in, my case this means spending time outside, chanting, drumming, singing, and so forth) It greatly intensifies the spiritual experience.
I don't know if this is something an Atheist can really experience, it's one of those things that, in my opinion, you have to believe in for it to work. I may be wrong, and it is certainly something that has been experienced by earnest Agnostics without changing their belief structure.
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, what exactly "is" a spiritual experience?
Sometimes, it's just the unveiling of how the world normally looks being replaced by a new reality.
That's how it was for me, personally.
I'd say, if that reality is real, in the sense that you can use it when you are not high, then it was an insight, whether that insight is spiritual or not really depends on how you look at it. I really think only spiritual people can have spiritual experiences. I'm open to being disproven by someone saying they had a spiritual experience but are an atheist, however if you don't believe in spirit, how can you have a spiritual experience? That'd be like me saying I met a sparkley vampire the other day. "Well, was it a real sparkley vampire?" "Of course not, I don't believe in vampires, it just behaved in exactly the way people who believe in sparkley vampires say they behave, but it was actually a hallucination" (or however Atheists would explain what seemed in every respect to be a spiritual experience, I'm not Atheist, and that is a really hard mind tunnel for me to get into)
Well, I *am* an atheist for the most part who had a spiritual experience on drugs.
How does that work you ask?
Hail Eris.
Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.
That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.
That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.
I did Ayahuasca, she strongly urged me not to do DMT. She also fixed my relationship with my brother in law and set me on the path to fixing my relationship with my wife. According to chemists ayahuasca is DMT, orally potentiated by an MAOI, the MAOI has some minor anti-depressant effects and Ayahuasca lasts much longer. I did not try DMT, my scientific curiousity was outweighed by the serious difference in legal status, and, more importantly, pure taboo from the Aya telling me not to try it.
The trip reports I have read of both made me pick up the opinion that DMT would be a HELL of a lot of fun for me, but that I would not be likely to find much value in the insights it would offer. Doesn't mean it doesn't work for you, but I doubt that it would for me.
As far as the spiritual experience, I guess that's something I am not going to be able to logically comprehend. Which is often part of the nature of spiritual experiences. Did it affirm your atheism for you? (again, I may be mistranslating tunnels, I am usually in an Animist tunnel and spiritual experiences, for me, almost always take animist metaphors to give me insights)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference
in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right,
in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its
magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
Also, if it were up to me, I'd make it almost mandatory (as in, you have a choice whether or not to do it, but you'll be heavily persuaded to do so) for anyone who reaches 21 (or perhaps even earlier) to take a hit of DMT.
That shit will seriously make you question reality and give you a whole new perspective on what this whole "life" thing is.
I did Ayahuasca, she strongly urged me not to do DMT. She also fixed my relationship with my brother in law and set me on the path to fixing my relationship with my wife. According to chemists ayahuasca is DMT, orally potentiated by an MAOI, the MAOI has some minor anti-depressant effects and Ayahuasca lasts much longer. I did not try DMT, my scientific curiousity was outweighed by the serious difference in legal status, and, more importantly, pure taboo from the Aya telling me not to try it.
The trip reports I have read of both made me pick up the opinion that DMT would be a HELL of a lot of fun for me, but that I would not be likely to find much value in the insights it would offer. Doesn't mean it doesn't work for you, but I doubt that it would for me.
As far as the spiritual experience, I guess that's something I am not going to be able to logically comprehend. Which is often part of the nature of spiritual experiences. Did it affirm your atheism for you? (again, I may be mistranslating tunnels, I am usually in an Animist tunnel and spiritual experiences, for me, almost always take animist metaphors to give me insights)
Oh for sure, DMT is kind of a cheapened version of Aya, it only lasts for 10 minutes(but that ten minutes feels like an eternity), and you literally go to a different world, it doesn't just *alter* the one you are in.
To me, it confirmed... well, nothing, it just gave me a lot more questions.
I've seen a side of reality that a very very small percentage of the population could ever hope to see, what it is exactly is impossible to describe, it's one of those "You had to be there" kinda things.
It both gave me a strong spiritual and atheistic experience, something that is just impossible to describe in words.
People try, and they sort of only ever touch the surface of it, no one person can give you a complete description of what a DMT trip *really* is, and to different people, it means different things and there are many theories.
Regardless of that, I still think it would be a good idea that everyone try it at least *once* in their lives.
I think I know where Aya is coming from when she suggests to stay away from it... it's an extremely intense experience, and is kinda like Aya's bad boy big brother (I call him Dimitri ;) ) in a sense.
You can probably think of it as, a feminine trip vs a masculine trip, Aya vs DMT. One is a gentle(ish), guiding visual experience, the other a more intense, in your face brain splattering against the wall extra-dimensional experience.
I'm not sure since I have not visited Aya yet, but from what I understand of her, that's what the difference is.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
I did that to someone with Dramamine. Dramamine is a deleriant, same family of chemicals as Belladonna and Jimsonweed (well, there's also atropine in belladonna, which just kills you) He wanted to try the hardest drug out there, I told him that it was dramamine in my experience, and after that he was off drugs. It damaged him though in ways that I didn't see the extent of becuase part of his change in life was cutting off contact with me.
I haven't heard of DMT doing anything bad to people, I have seen people get some really whacky ideas after Aya trips that they took quite seriously. Some changed their diets in ways which were harmful to them. One became a really obnoxious born again Christian.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:26:41 AM
To me, it confirmed... well, nothing, it just gave me a lot more questions.
I've seen a side of reality that a very very small percentage of the population could ever hope to see, what it is exactly is impossible to describe, it's one of those "You had to be there" kinda things.
Question, is the point--and I'm speaking from shroom experience here--that it showed you that reality is really, or not really, but more a sense of in how much (your) reality is defined by the stuff that's going on in your head (and conhe isequently the drugs you feed it)?
That's what I took from shrooms, especially my one bad trip. For some reason, afterwards, I got the idea that, if your whole reality can be altered that much by just a bit of shroom tea, can I ever even *begin* to imagine what reality must look like to a mussel on the sea floor with only its trunk/slurf to explore its immediate surroundings?
I suppose that realization will be even stronger when DMT simply *flash-bang!* replaces your reality with something entirely different.
Although on the other hand, it would also be easier to dismiss as "just the drug", where a strong dose of shrooms creates more of an overlay.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
I did that to someone with Dramamine. Dramamine is a deleriant, same family of chemicals as Belladonna and Jimsonweed (well, there's also atropine in belladonna, which just kills you) He wanted to try the hardest drug out there, I told him that it was dramamine in my experience, and after that he was off drugs. It damaged him though in ways that I didn't see the extent of becuase part of his change in life was cutting off contact with me.
I haven't heard of DMT doing anything bad to people, I have seen people get some really whacky ideas after Aya trips that they took quite seriously. Some changed their diets in ways which were harmful to them. One became a really obnoxious born again Christian.
I think I remember hearing something about the born again christian thing.
I don't know how you can take Aya and walk away thinking you need to follow Jesus, something about that just sounds... so fucking wrong.
I suppose there is no cure for "stupid" though, no matter what drug you take.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:26:41 AM
To me, it confirmed... well, nothing, it just gave me a lot more questions.
I've seen a side of reality that a very very small percentage of the population could ever hope to see, what it is exactly is impossible to describe, it's one of those "You had to be there" kinda things.
Question, is the point--and I'm speaking from shroom experience here--that it showed you that reality is really, or not really, but more a sense of in how much (your) reality is defined by the stuff that's going on in your head (and conhe isequently the drugs you feed it)?
That's what I took from shrooms, especially my one bad trip. For some reason, afterwards, I got the idea that, if your whole reality can be altered that much by just a bit of shroom tea, can I ever even *begin* to imagine what reality must look like to a mussel on the sea floor with only its trunk/slurf to explore its immediate surroundings?
I suppose that realization will be even stronger when DMT simply *flash-bang!* replaces your reality with something entirely different.
Although on the other hand, it would also be easier to dismiss as "just the drug", where a strong dose of shrooms creates more of an overlay.
I kind of.. don't get the question Trip. Though I sort of think I can see what you're trying to say.
There is a realisation that the way you see reality is defined by the input/output chemical reactions that are going on in your mind, and that reality can be so different depending on what's going on in there.
But yes, DMT kinda just throws a whole new perspective on what life and reality is.
I sort of liken it to being a realm of pure energy and possibility, the answer to the eternal "divide by zero" question.
It could very well be "just the drug", but something tells me there's more to it then just a drug reaction. I think, it's in the realm of where you go when you sleep, and when you die. It's the "otherside" that so many of us wonder about... (or one of the sides, at least, anyway...)
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 04:24:11 AM
And on the flipside regarding police, have *you* ever been dealt with by police after being caught with drugs?
I have. And it's no fun, they don't seem to give a shit about your welfare at all, they don't treat you as somebody who needs help, they treat you like a fucking common criminal, no better then a murderer or a child rapist, so it's good to know your rights when you're being fucked over by police.
I work side by side with quite a few police officers in my community. And I've worked with other police officers across the state at the state and local levels. To a person they have been people who are doing their best to protect and serve their communities. Every single one of them have worked to help improve conditions that lead kids to getting into drugs. No, I'm not talking about arresting them. I'm talking about working on policies and initiatives that get kids help instead of in jail. I'm talking about starting up soccer leagues to foster good relationships with kids in the community.
Sure there are some cops who are pricks and just want to bust kids and adults with drugs. But in my many years of experience working with police, they are largely very honorable people who want to work with people, not against them. Maybe it's different in Australia.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt does have lot's of warnings on many of the chemicals there and it tells you what combination of drugs are bad and how to look after yourself and your friends who are on drugs, something a lot of what I think you'd call "non-biased" sites would rarely tell you.
[citation needed]
One such example- http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/pharmacology/pharmacology_enzymes1.shtml
And another- http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_health2.shtml
And this- http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info8.shtml
There are many more if you bother to have a proper look around.
The [citation needed] refers to the bolded part of your statement.
Quote
I really believe that drug-treatment facilities and options should be rethunk, if we truely are serious about helping people get off drugs and we need to stop treating drug users like common criminals, there are good *people* who get addicted to drugs, and they should be treated as PATIENTS who needs HELP and not thrown behind bars and left to suffer.
I would say you have some shitty treatment centers in Australia, because my experience is much different. All of the treatment centers in Maine, I can say, DO treat addicts as Patients and are very engaged in their treatment.
QuoteI still don't see what's wrong with trying do-it-yourself detox as a *first* line of sobriety, and failing that, seeking professional help.
In fact, that happens a lot of the time.
Right, it happens a lot that self-detoxing fails which is my point. It mostly doesn't work and therefore isn't something that should be encouraged.
QuoteIn your line of business, all you see are the failed attempts at self-detoxing. You're blind to those who are successful because hey, if they were successful, you never see them, right?
First, I don't work at a treatment agency anymore. My new job is in a health promotion entity and I am a substance abuse prevention coordinator, not a treatment provider. I work with treatment providers in many of my initiatives and programs. But I'm not a provider myself.
Second, it's time for some put up or shut up. Give me some peer-reviewed research or stats that show a substantial percentage of drug addicts a) successfully going through self-detox and b) don't relapse into drug use after detox.
I will gladly concede the point if you can provide that information.
QuoteI work side by side with quite a few police officers in my community. And I've worked with other police officers across the state at the state and local levels. To a person they have been people who are doing their best to protect and serve their communities. Every single one of them have worked to help improve conditions that lead kids to getting into drugs. No, I'm not talking about arresting them. I'm talking about working on policies and initiatives that get kids help instead of in jail. I'm talking about starting up soccer leagues to foster good relationships with kids in the community.
Sure there are some cops who are pricks and just want to bust kids and adults with drugs. But in my many years of experience working with police, they are largely very honorable people who want to work with people, not against them. Maybe it's different in Australia.
Yeah, you only see the side they show you as a counselor. Most police encounters I and I'm sure anyone here who's had an experience with cops from the "busted" side can tell you, cop's don't give a shit about you.
Sure, they might care about "the kids" cus you know, they're young and stupid and need protecting, but they'll go gung ho on any mature adult that happens to have drugs on them, I can bet my bottom dollar this is the case in most places around the world, not just australia.
QuoteThe [citation needed] refers to the bolded part of your statement.
Ok, fair enough. I can't cite any sites at the moment, there are plenty of sites that do tell you how to look after friends that are high that aren't erowid, but I have in my web journies come across sites posing as "non biased" that are clearly of the 'DONT DO DRUGS OR ELSE YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS WILL HATE YOU, DRUGS ARE BAD MMKAY?" nature.
Also, something else you completely ignored, is the fact that iboga can help people detox off herion much more effectively then methadone.
You'll never find that in most sites out there.
Quote
I would say you have some shitty treatment centers in Australia, because my experience is much different. All of the treatment centers in Maine, I can say, DO treat addicts as Patients and are very engaged in their treatment.
We do have treatment centers in Australia, their quality though can be debated on a case by case basis. . It's not so much the treatment centers that are the problem though, it's how police treat the average person with a bit of pot or one or two pills on them, they *don't* give a fuck about you, they just want o bust you and interrogate you and treat you like a lower class citizen. Fuck that shit. Just because people take drugs doesn't mean they should be treated like criminals.
And I know this is the case in America too.
Quote from: wikipediaViolent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges
Quote
Right, it happens a lot that self-detoxing fails which is my point. It mostly doesn't work and therefore isn't something that should be encouraged.
That all depends on what you'd consider failure.
Some people binge on drugs, and then stop binging and minimize their drug use to the point where it no longer is causing issues in their life.
If you can hold down a job, pay your bills and still be a contributing member of society while still taking drugs occasionally, is this actually a *problem*?
Quote
First, I don't work at a treatment agency anymore. My new job is in a health promotion entity and I am a substance abuse prevention coordinator, not a treatment provider. I work with treatment providers in many of my initiatives and programs. But I'm not a provider myself.
Second, it's time for some put up or shut up. Give me some peer-reviewed research or stats that show a substantial percentage of drug addicts a) successfully going through self-detox and b) don't relapse into drug use after detox.
I will gladly concede the point if you can provide that information.
Ok, fair enough, sorry I got your job description wrong, but my point remains.
See, the "beauty" of this little problem of stats and such, is that it falls into what you call "silent evidence".
i.e
Diagoras, a non-believer in the gods, was shown painted tablets bearing the portraits of some worshippers who prayed, then survived a subsequent shipwreck.
The implication was that praying protects you from drowning.
Diagoras asked, "Where are the pictures of those who prayed, then drowned?".
How can I provide stats of people that helped themselves off drugs and didn't relapse? Sure, you can show me plenty of stats that of people you see all the time self-detoxing and relapsing, because that's been the evidence you've seen and gathered.
But there are no studies on this, I cannot provide any proof of the opposite, because those who are successful don't report to drug agencies to tell them of it so they can note it in their information base, and once again, how do you define "successful"?
Confirmation Bias is a fun thing, isn't it?
Quote from: BadbeastAnother thing with UK Police, that isn't so prevalent in US Police forces, is their Socialising is done exclusively with other Police Officers. Their personality (or lack of it) means they cannot relate to normal people. They can't stop being mistrustful, nosy, aloof, and superior. Which makes them piss poor company for anyone else. And if they are out, say at a Club, and they are recognised, they are in trouble. They do not have Uniform on. But they carry themselves like they are cock of the block still. They are fair game at these times. Vulnerable, because they aren't tooled up, or wearing those ridiculous stab jackets. If they get themselves into a fight, they are on their own. They can't ring up the Station for backup. Procedure would include their own arrest. And that isn't a good career move. So they are always edgy. They lie, about their job, if asked by anyone. They are told to do this, because it puts them in a vulnerable position. Where they might be targetted by a Villain, and forced to compromise themselves. Or the Force. Not much use to anyone, for anything much, any of them, IMO.
I just thought I'd take issue with this, as it is complete and utter bullshit from my experience.
I lived the last year with a police officer up in Birmingham. He was living in a student house, as he was a mate of ours who went on from studying a degree in police procedure to doing the rounds. He still socialized with us all on a regular basis, we'd often go for a drink, and he was still the same bloke he'd been studying, for the most part. He never tried to get the guys in the house who were into a bit of light pot busted or anything similar, though admittedly none of us were into heavier stuff.
Now, maybe the 'police officerness' hadn't sunk in yet because he'd only been doing it for a couple of years, but several coppers have also been family friends. They're regular people, go to the same pub as everyone else, and were pretty relaxed.
The idea that all police officers in the UK are some kind of separate breed definitely does not apply universally. Maybe that's been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. I've had a very middle class upbringing, though. I suspect that has more to do with how the police treat you than anything else.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 01:52:53 PM
Yeah, you only see the side they show you as a counselor. Most police encounters I and I'm sure anyone here who's had an experience with cops from the "busted" side can tell you, cop's don't give a shit about you.
Sure, they might care about "the kids" cus you know, they're young and stupid and need protecting, but they'll go gung ho on any mature adult that happens to have drugs on them, I can bet my bottom dollar this is the case in most places around the world, not just australia.
Pardon me but my view is broader than you think. As an example, there was an incident at the local college a couple of months ago. There were 200 or so college kids outside drinking. Someone in the dorm called for an ambulance to take them to the hospital. After the student was transported to the ambulance, the drunken crowd would not allow the ambulance to leave, they blocked it's path.
Police responded to break up the crowd. The crowd refused to disperse after many pleadings and warnings from the police. Things escalated and it became necessary to break up the crowd and make arrests so the Ambulance could be on its way. One of the police officers, who I know quite well, was going out of his way to not harm a particular individual who was violently resisting arrest. He ended up breaking his leg in two places because of the way he had to shift his weight while trying to apprehend the individual and has been out of work ever since. He would later be accused of police brutality and using his baton, but I've seen the police videos. He never had the baton in his hand.
And I know many other individuals like him. They do their job and enforce the laws when they have to but they aren't on some "gung ho" mission, as you say, to arrest everyone everywhere doing drugs.
QuoteQuoteThe [citation needed] refers to the bolded part of your statement.
Ok, fair enough. I can't cite any sites at the moment, there are plenty of sites that do tell you how to look after friends that are high that aren't erowid, but I have in my web journies come across sites posing as "non biased" that are clearly of the 'DONT DO DRUGS OR ELSE YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS WILL HATE YOU, DRUGS ARE BAD MMKAY?" nature.
It would be really helpful if you could actually offer examples of what you are talking about.
QuoteOk, fair enough, sorry I got your job description wrong, but my point remains.
See, the "beauty" of this little problem of stats and such, is that it falls into what you call "silent evidence".
i.e
Diagoras, a non-believer in the gods, was shown painted tablets bearing the portraits of some worshippers who prayed, then survived a subsequent shipwreck.
The implication was that praying protects you from drowning.
Diagoras asked, "Where are the pictures of those who prayed, then drowned?".
How can I provide stats of people that helped themselves off drugs and didn't relapse? Sure, you can show me plenty of stats that of people you see all the time self-detoxing and relapsing, because that's been the evidence you've seen and gathered.
But there are no studies on this, I cannot provide any proof of the opposite, because those who are successful don't report to drug agencies to tell them of it so they can note it in their information base, and once again, how do you define "successful"?
Confirmation Bias is a fun thing, isn't it?
Treatment agencies aren't the only entities that do research and collect statistics on drugs. If self-detoxing really is such a viable option I would gather there is some peer-reviewed research by a university or think tank that provides that evidence. Sorry, you're claim that "because treatment agencies don't collect this data so it doesn't exist" doesn't cut it.
You can find stats on people who go cold turkey with cigarettes, who do you think collects that data?
So, what I'm getting from this is that some cops are pigs, and some are fair-minded civil servants; some people may respond positively to rehab treatments that have not been peer-reviewed yet; and erowid's bias leans towards the pro-user side of the population.
I think that's about as far as we're going to get.
Agreed. So I'm out of this one before it turns into another crap fest. Enjoy Lys!
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 02:29:48 PM
Agreed. So I'm out of this one before it turns into another crap fest. Enjoy Lys!
I'll agree for the most part, but I don't think this is a crap fest.
I am listening to the points you have to make, and I'm not trying to argue with you so much as try and show you my side of thinking.
I respect the work you do and what you have to say, and I find it very interesting and enlightening. I do find it a bit saddening though that you're just ignoring some of the points I'm making and asking me for proof of things that I can't at this time show you.
Nice. Threads back on track. I never did Aya but I did do DMT, with high expectations. I was left somewhat disappointed. It was intense, and there was the temporal displacement, but I didn't get any spiritual lift from it at all. But I'm not one to dismiss a drug after one go on it, so I may try it again at some point.
My absolute favourite Psychedelic is Psilocybin Semilacantea. I enjoy Acid, and other stuff like MDMA, but there is nothing that has ever come close Spiritually, to Liberty Caps. They are harmless, in the sense that there is no toxic amount that I've ever heard of, but I have never been more afraid in my life, than when The Fear™ kicks in.
But the best Spiritual kick, involves The Fear™.
When they throw you unexpectedly right in the deep end, and you know you're in for the duration, you can just sit there, on a tree stump, rocking backwards and forwards, muttering "Make it go away, make it go away, over and over until it wears off. You can get to a point where you've just had enough, and you give up. You stop struggling, stop fighting off the nameless Horror that has been trying to utterly consume you for perhaps three hours, and SUBMIT.
At that point, you are fully aware that this submission can mean you are wiped from existence, dragged away by some Grendel like monster of the blackest pit, to be consumed and eaten alive in it's lair. (Spiritually speaking, of course) Sounds a bit dramatic, I know, but
It's real enough at the time.
Then you realise all of a sudden, that you had indeed been riding the correct motorcycle all along, and The Fear™ has taken you to a place you would never have reached, unless you'd really believed you'd been about to have your (suddenly very real) Soul, sucked out and condemned to oblivion. The point you have been driven to, is ABSOLUTE SUBMISSION. Not just Resignation, but total and abject Submission. All the Fear, and Horror, and Demonic, babbling insanity, just evaporates and leaves you empty of any recognisable emotion or feeling. You are indeed, consigned to oblivion. An empty vessel, floating in an endless ocean of nothing at all.
You know nothing, feel nothing, your senses have been stripped away, and you are no more than the tiniest spark of other.
What I know now, is this. The frightened, terrified creature that turned itself over to the tender mercies of the THE FEAR™, has gone. It wasn't you at all. It was just your Ego. Now, you are actually ready for the big one. The whole of reality snaps back in, like a cracking whip. Instead of experiencing it, from an Ego-Tagged point of consciousness called You, you become everything in the whole of creation. Every stone, every animal, every leaf on every Tree, everything there has ever been, across time, is now you. You fill every place, and your awareness is everywhere at once, and you are all there is. One with everything.
At this point, there is no longer anything you need to find out, discover, feel, or do. No imperative, no action needed, just pure awareness. Planet Earth is you, and there's nothing more to do. You know. Every Cell, every Atom, every piece of every puzzle. It's enough.
Then it all becomes nothing but light. Light with no source, or end, no shadow, no matter, no impurities. Just light. Just you. The light sucks in on itself, becomes a ball, gets smaller and smaller, until it / you are just a microscopic pinprick, tinier and tinier. Then there is nothing.
And. . . . . . . you're back in the room. The thing that rode here on THE FEAR™ is back. No longer afraid, and also, somehow aware of what you've just been through. Clean and shiny, pure and filled with what you can only describe as Grace. You welcome each other with love, and merge. You have your reconditioned Ego back. No longer disproportionate to it's place in the scheme of things, or trying to run everything, it quietly starts to tag the World again, from it's new point of you.
You have passed through something, bigger than what you previously thought of as just "Death". And literally been born, again. You were your own Mother, and the new Baby thing. And somehow, the Midwife too. The person you were is now gone, and the person you are now, is both of you again. Or something. And you're still tripping your Nut off, and the whole process has taken maybe 20 minutes. You feel better than you ever remember feeling. Filled with Grace, you are allowed to just reflect on what happened. You also realise that you are actully walking in the Garden again. Yup. That Garden. Et in Arcadia Ego. In fact, you realise you never really left it. It all had something to do with an Apple. And a Snake. And Knowledge.
Now you know why you were told not to eat that Fruit. So that you ate the Fucker. The Snake, the bringer of Wisdom, hadn't lied. "If you eat of this Fruit, you will become as Gods". (The Snake was also you, all along, and the Chick you remember was the same one who had just given birth to your newly enlightened arse)
I fucking love Magick Mushrooms. So much more than just "breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles" :fnord:
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 02:29:48 PM
Agreed. So I'm out of this one before it turns into another crap fest. Enjoy Lys!
I'll agree for the most part, but I don't think this is a crap fest.
I am listening to the points you have to make, and I'm not trying to argue with you so much as try and show you my side of thinking.
I respect the work you do and what you have to say, and I find it very interesting and enlightening. I do find it a bit saddening though that you're just ignoring some of the points I'm making and asking me for proof of things that I can't at this time show you.
You mind if I take a stab at it?
Erowid, leaning pro-user, treats drugs in the same manner as a magazine devoted to alcohol or cigars would. So, it's like if I said it would be a horrible thing to mix 21-year old scotch in a glass with peppermint schnapps, but i didn't mention alcoholism or liver damage.
Many websites, because they are, you know,
websites, may claim to be fair, but aren't. Regardless of any advice they may give. I used to belong to the usergroup Narcotichrist: In a very fair and balanced way, they discussed how easy it was to be a functioning heroin junkie (among other things).
As far as "silent evidence" goes, that still falls under the umbrella of "anectdotal" or worse yet, "statistics". If alternative drug treatment options exist and are feasible, the only way to confirm this is through scientific study. A website that claims a detox works without scientific evidence and only because it worked for a few people would be like saying dictatorships are a good idea because you heard that James Brown became successful because he ruled his band with an iron fist.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 25, 2010, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 02:29:48 PM
Agreed. So I'm out of this one before it turns into another crap fest. Enjoy Lys!
I'll agree for the most part, but I don't think this is a crap fest.
I am listening to the points you have to make, and I'm not trying to argue with you so much as try and show you my side of thinking.
I respect the work you do and what you have to say, and I find it very interesting and enlightening. I do find it a bit saddening though that you're just ignoring some of the points I'm making and asking me for proof of things that I can't at this time show you.
You mind if I take a stab at it?
Erowid, leaning pro-user, treats drugs in the same manner as a magazine devoted to alcohol or cigars would. So, it's like if I said it would be a horrible thing to mix 21-year old scotch in a glass with peppermint schnapps, but i didn't mention alcoholism or liver damage.
Many websites, because they are, you know, websites, may claim to be fair, but aren't. Regardless of any advice they may give. I used to belong to the usergroup Narcotichrist: In a very fair and balanced way, they discussed how easy it was to be a functioning heroin junkie (among other things).
As far as "silent evidence" goes, that still falls under the umbrella of "anectdotal" or worse yet, "statistics". If alternative drug treatment options exist and are feasible, the only way to confirm this is through scientific study. A website that claims a detox works without scientific evidence and only because it worked for a few people would be like saying dictatorships are a good idea because you heard that James Brown became successful because he ruled his band with an iron fist.
Sure, I'll be responding to this tomorrow when I have some time, for now, need rest.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 25, 2010, 02:49:59 PM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 02:29:48 PM
Agreed. So I'm out of this one before it turns into another crap fest. Enjoy Lys!
I'll agree for the most part, but I don't think this is a crap fest.
I am listening to the points you have to make, and I'm not trying to argue with you so much as try and show you my side of thinking.
I respect the work you do and what you have to say, and I find it very interesting and enlightening. I do find it a bit saddening though that you're just ignoring some of the points I'm making and asking me for proof of things that I can't at this time show you.
You mind if I take a stab at it?
Erowid, leaning pro-user, treats drugs in the same manner as a magazine devoted to alcohol or cigars would. So, it's like if I said it would be a horrible thing to mix 21-year old scotch in a glass with peppermint schnapps, but i didn't mention alcoholism or liver damage.
Many websites, because they are, you know, websites, may claim to be fair, but aren't. Regardless of any advice they may give. I used to belong to the usergroup Narcotichrist: In a very fair and balanced way, they discussed how easy it was to be a functioning heroin junkie (among other things).
As far as "silent evidence" goes, that still falls under the umbrella of "anectdotal" or worse yet, "statistics". If alternative drug treatment options exist and are feasible, the only way to confirm this is through scientific study. A website that claims a detox works without scientific evidence and only because it worked for a few people would be like saying dictatorships are a good idea because you heard that James Brown became successful because he ruled his band with an iron fist.
Sure, I'll be responding to this tomorrow when I have some time, for now, need rest.
Nonsense, you need Amphetamines!
Erowid says you'll be ok!
But maybe not you're aorta:
http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2010/amphetamine-misuse-linked.html
QuoteYoung adults who misuse amphetamines have a three-fold risk for tears in the aorta -- the body's largest artery -- compared with nonusers, Reuters reported Aug. 17.
Researchers at the University of Texas examined the medical records of 31,000 Americans ages 18–44 hospitalized between 1995–2007 and found that patients who abused amphetamines had three times the risk for aortic dissection than patients who did not, even after controlling for other risk factors.
Amphetamines are known to increase heart rate and blood pressure. Aortic tears are potentially fatal.
The research team also examined medical records of 49 million U.S. adults over age 50, but did not find an increased risk in this age group.
"Doctors should screen young adults with aortic dissection for amphetamine abuse in searching for a potential cause," said Dr. Arthur Westover, lead author of the study.
The research appears in the August 2010 issue of the American Heart Journal.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 04:05:57 AM
Obviously, neither would I, but while that stuff is good fun, and quite distracting, if you double up what you've already taken at this point, all that illusiary stuff kind of falls away, and you can really open all kinds of shit up. It's not rare to have some kind of epiphany if you just keep chugging them down until you find a level you can really operate on. The thing is, epiphany is usually a really personal thing, and when you try telling anyone about it the next day, you just end up sounding like you fried your brain. That's why all the ancient Mystery traditions are all couched in allegory and symbolism. You can't really convey something like that in words that other people take seriously. Our subconscious minds operate on symbolism, rather than language, so for a while, we get to read these patterns, and symbols, and their meanings, and how they act as a dynamic in our conscious mind. I'm not getting all Tim Leary here, just saying that there's fucking universes of untapped data that we can have a go on for a bit, if we're careful. And that can be really quite an eye opener. Or it can drop you splat bang into 6 hours of The Fear™. Which is still an eye opener, just not a pleasant one. That fear is the price it sometimes costs for tweaking our wetware like that. You have to speculate to accumulate, and those complete screamers, are pretty fucking hellish. That's as pineal as I'm letting meself get tonight though, before the acrid stench of patchouli starts leaching out of this thread.
Too late already? Shit like, faar out man. chill yer boots, and groove. . . . look at the colours,
Dude, I've eaten high enough doses of shrooms (and LSD, and Mescaline, and San Pedro cactus, etc...) to get a brontosaurus fucked out of its gourd. Fer chrissake, I used to deal vials of liquid LSD when I was younger and a complete fuckup. I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm pretty sure that having any sort of "life-changing epiphany" while on hallucinogenics is just a trick of the synapses operating on a non-empirical mind. It's fun, but that's really ALL it is. I can't stand it when people try to tell me about how tripping "changed their whole perspective on life, man". Recreational drug use is just that, recreational. Anything else is analogous (IMO) to religion, hippie-dippy bullshit, and other forms of powerful self-delusion.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 06:06:22 AM
Okay, I'll dig it up, find a tape player, (remember them?) and upload it in the next couple of days.
please do not upload copyrighted material to this site, especially when the copyright owner is a cop.
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
I did that to someone with Dramamine. Dramamine is a deleriant, same family of chemicals as Belladonna and Jimsonweed (well, there's also atropine in belladonna, which just kills you) He wanted to try the hardest drug out there, I told him that it was dramamine in my experience, and after that he was off drugs. It damaged him though in ways that I didn't see the extent of becuase part of his change in life was cutting off contact with me.
I haven't heard of DMT doing anything bad to people, I have seen people get some really whacky ideas after Aya trips that they took quite seriously. Some changed their diets in ways which were harmful to them. One became a really obnoxious born again Christian.
I got high on Dramamine once when I was 17. Hardest I've ever tripped in my life, and thoroughly unenjoyable. About a week after I tried it, a kid that went to the high school across town from mine drowned in a mudpuddle while high on dramamine. A month after that, a kid that wen to my high school got killed by a train while high on dramamine. Needless to say, the fad was pretty short-lived.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 05:40:41 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 04:05:57 AM
Obviously, neither would I, but while that stuff is good fun, and quite distracting, if you double up what you've already taken at this point, all that illusiary stuff kind of falls away, and you can really open all kinds of shit up. It's not rare to have some kind of epiphany if you just keep chugging them down until you find a level you can really operate on. The thing is, epiphany is usually a really personal thing, and when you try telling anyone about it the next day, you just end up sounding like you fried your brain. That's why all the ancient Mystery traditions are all couched in allegory and symbolism. You can't really convey something like that in words that other people take seriously. Our subconscious minds operate on symbolism, rather than language, so for a while, we get to read these patterns, and symbols, and their meanings, and how they act as a dynamic in our conscious mind. I'm not getting all Tim Leary here, just saying that there's fucking universes of untapped data that we can have a go on for a bit, if we're careful. And that can be really quite an eye opener. Or it can drop you splat bang into 6 hours of The Fear™. Which is still an eye opener, just not a pleasant one. That fear is the price it sometimes costs for tweaking our wetware like that. You have to speculate to accumulate, and those complete screamers, are pretty fucking hellish. That's as pineal as I'm letting meself get tonight though, before the acrid stench of patchouli starts leaching out of this thread.
Too late already? Shit like, faar out man. chill yer boots, and groove. . . . look at the colours,
Dude, I've eaten high enough doses of shrooms (and LSD, and Mescaline, and San Pedro cactus, etc...) to get a brontosaurus fucked out of its gourd. Fer chrissake, I used to deal vials of liquid LSD when I was younger and a complete fuckup. I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm pretty sure that having any sort of "life-changing epiphany" while on hallucinogenics is just a trick of the synapses operating on a non-empirical mind. It's fun, but that's really ALL it is. I can't stand it when people try to tell me about how tripping "changed their whole perspective on life, man". Recreational drug use is just that, recreational. Anything else is analogous (IMO) to religion, hippie-dippy bullshit, and other forms of powerful self-delusion.
I'm not exactly a newcomer to tripping myself, (I've been bang at it for 30yrs) and I agree that synapses trying to operate with unfamiliar and hi-octane neuro-transmitters are directly responsible for the hallucinogenic qualities of tripping. But whether that's just what happens in your brain as a response to a different chemicals sloshing about, or the result of a Brain operating level 7 or 8 circuitry, is a moot point.
As for the non-empirical mind, I don't have any problem with that. Shit, it's not like people are often making decisions based on Empirical data anyway. The normal mind makes most of it's decisions based on emotional, familiar, patterns. And on data with known results. Wherever decisions are involved, the Human Animal doesn't like to spend too much time out of it's comfort zone. As for some blissed out triphead trying to explain the whole secret to L,tU, &E, I would much prefer they didn't, because I know our written or spoken language is not designed for communicating revelations from the bubbling, suddenly accessible mess of archetypical, atavaristic and Jungian impulses that seeth around in our unconscious mind. That's why it's "unconscious" deliberately running a different Operating System to the Linguistic and Intellectual Conscious mind. Any inspirational flashes delivered to the conscious tripping mind, from the Unconscious, are in a completely different language. To try and intellectualise your Epiphany, to anyone else, just reminds everyone why Hippys became stereotypical cartoon characters of themselves.
All those drugs you mention, when I take them, I take them purely for recreation. I have given up trying to solve the mental puzzles and behavioural aberrations that have always accompanied even the most Empirical of Psychedelic Gurus, from Leary, who was probably the most Empirical of them all, (but also, for a time the most zealous) & RAW, to Charlie Manson, Ken Kesey, & that hilarious Whole Earth Battalion lunatic. I don't have any desire to immerse myself in
pointless pinealism.
But when I take Mushrooms, (Liberty Caps, or Flycaps) I do it as of a Sacrament, not for recreation. It's long been understood that one of the biggest factors in the type of experience one has while under the influence of these drugs, is the expectations of the user. So for "Spiritual", I use the same ones as have been used, for these reasons for thousands of years, the ones that all of the Western Mystery traditions, from the pre-Celtic Druidic traditions, the Chaldeans, the Eleusinian Mysteries, The Bacchic and Dionysian rites, Phonoecians, Phrygians, Samothracian Cabiric Mystery Cults, Mithras, and even early Christians.
Not because I subscribe particularly to their traditions, but simply because they have been
successfully producing Spiritually relevant, researchable, and historically documented, (and predictably reliable) states of mind, for Millennia, rather than just a few decades. Also, the symbolism (And also musical mathematical stuff) that has grown up around the Mystery Cults, and Religions, DOES speak directly to the Subconscious mind, and has been doing so for a
long, long time.
The obsessively Language and Word based imperatives of Scienctific research in this area are pretty much like our understanding of Whalesong, or Dolphins squeaks. Rudimentary. But the Rites, Symbolism, and Godforms of these Ancient traditions, have been mapping the same areas for rather longer, with more reliable, and accurate results too.
So I go with the Fungus, and Feral, for Spiritual, and the Chemical and Electronic, for Pineal Bliss. And I consider my own judgement, on knowing the difference between the two, as good as anybody elses.
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
I am split on the issue... I don't believe that "The Spiritual" as in some transcendent reality exists. I don't believe that drugs
will give you a spiritual experience. However, I have had experiences both with and without drugs which can be described in terms similar to those of people who have so called spiritual experiences. To me, that indicates that there is a 'state' which can be achieved with meditation, ecstatic ritual, drugs and other tools which people over thousands of years have labeled 'spiritual'. I didn't really understand much of this concept before I read Cosmic Trigger and Book Four. In both the authors (RAW and Crowley) approach this state, not as a spiritual state, but as a state which has been considered spiritual and may be beneficial in some sense.
I've found that when I was a JW and had ecstatic experiences they had the context of that belief system. When I was studying Thelema, the experiences were in the context of that system. When I first tripped on shrooms, the experiences were interesting but not heavily contextual... until I went into the woods... and then the experience transformed into one that was heavily influenced by 'nature' (for lack of a better term). Though shrooming with friends leads to a fun non 'spiritual' experience.
I think some drugs can bring about a state of mind which can be very useful in the right context, either the context of partying or inner reflection or spirituality or psychology or whatever...
The biggest problem I have with much of the Hippie Bullshit is that they confuse personal experience with objective facts. Objectively, I take psychedelics and have a chemical interaction. Subjectively, depending on the situation, I may have experiences which could be labeled spiritual, for lack of a more clear term.
I just took a really spiritual shit. The ghost of Gandhi began speaking from the commode, remonstrating me for my evil ways. So I flushed his ass.
To hell with spirituality.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:08:49 PM
I just took a really spiritual shit. The ghost of Gandhi began speaking from the commode, remonstrating me for my evil ways. So I flushed his ass.
To hell with spirituality.
The other day, I was doped up on Lexapro for the first time in several months. About an hour after taking it, I was sitting in class and began feeling strangely excited, like my body was in need of a long hard run, or three hundred pushups or something. Then the headache started, and the nausea, I felt my stomach slowly come to a boil as my brain melted behind my eyeballs. It was like my organs were swimming in slightly off cheese spread.
Suddenly I sprang up and ran out the door, nearly falling down the stairs. I could hear the toilet calling to me, bidding me kneel to it's porcelain beauty. This powerful feeling of internal upheaval lead me to begin my offering, a stream of steaming stomach acid. My eyes rolled back into my head, as I convulsed, and then lay on the ground dazed.
So, was that a spiritual experience?
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:08:49 PM
I just took a really spiritual shit. The ghost of Gandhi began speaking from the commode, remonstrating me for my evil ways. So I flushed his ass.
To hell with spirituality.
The other day, I was doped up on Lexapro for the first time in several months. About an hour after taking it, I was sitting in class and began feeling strangely excited, like my body was in need of a long hard run, or three hundred pushups or something. Then the headache started, and the nausea, I felt my stomach slowly come to a boil as my brain melted behind my eyeballs. It was like my organs were swimming in slightly off cheese spread.
Suddenly I sprang up and ran out the door, nearly falling down the stairs. I could hear the toilet calling to me, bidding me kneel to it's porcelain beauty. This powerful feeling of internal upheaval lead me to begin my offering, a stream of steaming stomach acid. My eyes rolled back into my head, as I convulsed, and then lay on the ground dazed.
So, was that a spiritual experience?
No, that was "Tuesday night at the Meetrack".
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:33:28 PM
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Joyce was a hack.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:33:28 PM
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Joyce was a hack.
Aren't we all....
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:36:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:33:28 PM
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Joyce was a hack.
Aren't we all....
Not on that level.
For example, I never dropped acid, wrote some useless tripe, and then inflicted it on generations of schoolchildren.
Wasn't that part of the NCLA program? No Child Left Awake.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:36:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:33:28 PM
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Joyce was a hack.
Aren't we all....
Not on that level.
For example, I never dropped acid, wrote some useless tripe, and then inflicted it on generations of schoolchildren.
Neither did Joyce...
No, instead Joyce inflicted it on Anglo-American literary theory, turning literature from understandable, if often deep and conflicted pieces of work, into near incomprehensible reference games and academic/literary in-jokes which took a lifetime of study to ever understand, and probably directly contributed to the decline of the novel as a medium of culture and learning.
Apart from that, Joyce is OK.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:36:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:35:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:33:28 PM
Joyce tied ol YHVH with being the god of blood and shit, so there ya go.
Joyce was a hack.
Aren't we all....
Not on that level.
For example, I never dropped acid, wrote some useless tripe, and then inflicted it on generations of schoolchildren.
Neither did Joyce...
Can't tell from reading him.
Oh, wait. I need elipses.
Can't tell from reading him...
Quote from: Cain on August 25, 2010, 08:43:10 PM
No, instead Joyce inflicted it on Anglo-American literary theory, turning literature from understandable, if often deep and conflicted pieces of work, into near incomprehensible reference games and academic/literary in-jokes which took a lifetime of study to ever understand, and probably directly contributed to the decline of the novel as a medium of culture and learning.
Apart from that, Joyce is OK.
THIS. FUCKING THIS.
And he totally ruined RAW. What that fat old fart saw in Joyce was beyond me.
Also, Joyce gave loads of pretentious fuckwads something to look absorbed in at Starbucks, once they'd gone through all of Ayn Rand's garbage.
Preach it Dok!
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Very true. In fact, I'm convinced he was drunk when he did most of his writing.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Isn't Finnegan's Wake
exactly that?
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:40:09 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
I did that to someone with Dramamine. Dramamine is a deleriant, same family of chemicals as Belladonna and Jimsonweed (well, there's also atropine in belladonna, which just kills you) He wanted to try the hardest drug out there, I told him that it was dramamine in my experience, and after that he was off drugs. It damaged him though in ways that I didn't see the extent of becuase part of his change in life was cutting off contact with me.
I haven't heard of DMT doing anything bad to people, I have seen people get some really whacky ideas after Aya trips that they took quite seriously. Some changed their diets in ways which were harmful to them. One became a really obnoxious born again Christian.
I think I remember hearing something about the born again christian thing.
I don't know how you can take Aya and walk away thinking you need to follow Jesus, something about that just sounds... so fucking wrong.
I suppose there is no cure for "stupid" though, no matter what drug you take.
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 08:57:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Very true. In fact, I'm convinced he was drunk when he did most of his writing.
"Irish".
See also: William Butler Yeats.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Isn't Finnegan's Wake exactly that?
As far as I can tell. Someone gave me a copy, once. I wound up using it to support a window unit air conditioner, and it swelled up to the size of the US tax code, and eventually went moldy and turned to mush.
Which improved it greatly.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Isn't Finnegan's Wake exactly that?
Not exactly, its more like a very drunk Irish bard trying to tell a story, rather than ranting about getting fired. I mean, there is a story there, and there are allusions and metaphors and its all a very traditional bardic way of taking a swipe at the problems of the country... unfortunately its almost unreadable and you need a fucking spelunking kit to even try to figure it out.
I've been told that if you are Irish and understand the Irish social scene/mind set and slang of the early 20th century its much more readable.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Isn't Finnegan's Wake exactly that?
Not exactly, its more like a very drunk Irish bard trying to tell a story, rather than ranting about getting fired. I mean, there is a story there, and there are allusions and metaphors and its all a very traditional bardic way of taking a swipe at the problems of the country... unfortunately its almost unreadable and you need a fucking spelunking kit to even try to figure it out.
I've been told that if you are Irish and understand the Irish social scene/mind set and slang of the early 20th century its much more readable.
Well fuck, so why was my school insisting that a bunch of kids with French-Canadian heritage read the stupid thing?
Quote from: BadBeast on August 25, 2010, 02:46:24 PM
Nice. Threads back on track. I never did Aya but I did do DMT, with high expectations. I was left somewhat disappointed. It was intense, and there was the temporal displacement, but I didn't get any spiritual lift from it at all. But I'm not one to dismiss a drug after one go on it, so I may try it again at some point.
My absolute favourite Psychedelic is Psilocybin Semilacantea. I enjoy Acid, and other stuff like MDMA, but there is nothing that has ever come close Spiritually, to Liberty Caps. They are harmless, in the sense that there is no toxic amount that I've ever heard of, but I have never been more afraid in my life, than when The Fear™ kicks in.
But the best Spiritual kick, involves The Fear™.
When they throw you unexpectedly right in the deep end, and you know you're in for the duration, you can just sit there, on a tree stump, rocking backwards and forwards, muttering "Make it go away, make it go away, over and over until it wears off. You can get to a point where you've just had enough, and you give up. You stop struggling, stop fighting off the nameless Horror that has been trying to utterly consume you for perhaps three hours, and SUBMIT.
At that point, you are fully aware that this submission can mean you are wiped from existence, dragged away by some Grendel like monster of the blackest pit, to be consumed and eaten alive in it's lair. (Spiritually speaking, of course) Sounds a bit dramatic, I know, but
It's real enough at the time.
Then you realise all of a sudden, that you had indeed been riding the correct motorcycle all along, and The Fear™ has taken you to a place you would never have reached, unless you'd really believed you'd been about to have your (suddenly very real) Soul, sucked out and condemned to oblivion. The point you have been driven to, is ABSOLUTE SUBMISSION. Not just Resignation, but total and abject Submission. All the Fear, and Horror, and Demonic, babbling insanity, just evaporates and leaves you empty of any recognisable emotion or feeling. You are indeed, consigned to oblivion. An empty vessel, floating in an endless ocean of nothing at all.
You know nothing, feel nothing, your senses have been stripped away, and you are no more than the tiniest spark of other.
What I know now, is this. The frightened, terrified creature that turned itself over to the tender mercies of the THE FEAR™, has gone. It wasn't you at all. It was just your Ego. Now, you are actually ready for the big one. The whole of reality snaps back in, like a cracking whip. Instead of experiencing it, from an Ego-Tagged point of consciousness called You, you become everything in the whole of creation. Every stone, every animal, every leaf on every Tree, everything there has ever been, across time, is now you. You fill every place, and your awareness is everywhere at once, and you are all there is. One with everything.
At this point, there is no longer anything you need to find out, discover, feel, or do. No imperative, no action needed, just pure awareness. Planet Earth is you, and there's nothing more to do. You know. Every Cell, every Atom, every piece of every puzzle. It's enough.
Then it all becomes nothing but light. Light with no source, or end, no shadow, no matter, no impurities. Just light. Just you. The light sucks in on itself, becomes a ball, gets smaller and smaller, until it / you are just a microscopic pinprick, tinier and tinier. Then there is nothing.
And. . . . . . . you're back in the room. The thing that rode here on THE FEAR™ is back. No longer afraid, and also, somehow aware of what you've just been through. Clean and shiny, pure and filled with what you can only describe as Grace. You welcome each other with love, and merge. You have your reconditioned Ego back. No longer disproportionate to it's place in the scheme of things, or trying to run everything, it quietly starts to tag the World again, from it's new point of you.
You have passed through something, bigger than what you previously thought of as just "Death". And literally been born, again. You were your own Mother, and the new Baby thing. And somehow, the Midwife too. The person you were is now gone, and the person you are now, is both of you again. Or something. And you're still tripping your Nut off, and the whole process has taken maybe 20 minutes. You feel better than you ever remember feeling. Filled with Grace, you are allowed to just reflect on what happened. You also realise that you are actully walking in the Garden again. Yup. That Garden. Et in Arcadia Ego. In fact, you realise you never really left it. It all had something to do with an Apple. And a Snake. And Knowledge.
Now you know why you were told not to eat that Fruit. So that you ate the Fucker. The Snake, the bringer of Wisdom, hadn't lied. "If you eat of this Fruit, you will become as Gods". (The Snake was also you, all along, and the Chick you remember was the same one who had just given birth to your newly enlightened arse)
I fucking love Magick Mushrooms. So much more than just "breathing walls, color trails, and incurable giggles" :fnord:
I've enjoyed Liberty caps numerous times, as well as Cubenses and Cyanescens. Never experienced the fear, and I can't say I want to, I've also never experienced a space where I was in a different world, or gone, or anything of the sort. I have always been me, just more aware of different aspects of the world around me (and also with a greatly increased sense of humor) It could be due to not having gone for extremely high doses. The times I have taken more than usual they have made me vomit, which, while not really a terrible experience, did not feel necessary as it did on aya, more like my body knew i had taken too much mushrooms and was getting rid of the excess.
Mushrooms (usually a tea blended from cubenses, cyanscens and liberty caps) is a sacrament in the church I was raised in (just on Winter Solstice) so they naturally have a very spiritual feeling for me even when i am taking them in a different context.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Preach it Dok!
Reading Joyce is like actually paying attention to a drunk on a barstool. Not the kind of drunk who's had a few and is ranting entertainingly, the kind of drunk who has pissed himself and is telling you all about "THA BASSARDS WHO FIRED ME FOR NO REASON! NO REASON ATALLITELLYA BORB HURK PUKE!".
Isn't Finnegan's Wake exactly that?
Not exactly, its more like a very drunk Irish bard trying to tell a story, rather than ranting about getting fired. I mean, there is a story there, and there are allusions and metaphors and its all a very traditional bardic way of taking a swipe at the problems of the country... unfortunately its almost unreadable and you need a fucking spelunking kit to even try to figure it out.
I've been told that if you are Irish and understand the Irish social scene/mind set and slang of the early 20th century its much more readable.
No, actually, it's a steaming pile of shit. It's fucking awful.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 05:52:04 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 25, 2010, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:36:04 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on August 25, 2010, 09:33:35 AM
Ahem.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9522-magic-mushrooms-really-cause-spiritual-experiences.html
Yeah, the chemicals in your brain are the same. That doesn't mean that they "really" cause spiritual experiences. Like ECH said, he hasn't had a spiritual experience on them. However he almost certainly did have the same chemicals in his brain as a saint or yogi undergoing a spiritual experience.
Well, to me there is no difference between what "really" is a spiritual experience and the chemicals in my brain.
I don't get it, you just called yourself an atheist and then you say there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a certain chemical configuration in your brain? Then what is the difference made of? Hypothetical invisible pink unicorns? :lol:
For me, I mean, there is no difference in some sense*. Cause you know those people, the rationalists that say "love" is just a chemical configuration in your brain? It's the same thing, they are right, in some sense, but IMO life becomes pretty boring if you only look at it that way. In fact, you could almost literally say, life loses some of its magic ;-)
Now, I'm not saying that if you consider "love" to be something more than just chemicals, you also should consider a spiritual experience more than just a hallucination or whatever. I'm perfectly alright with everybody having their own opinion on that.
(* sorry but here it means exactly what I want to say)
I'm not an Atheist, I can't understand atheists at all. I was raised pagan, in a tradition that includes direct experiences of the divine. I DO believe it has a spiritual quality when I have a spiritual experience and I don't believe that experience can be quantified, or measured. I know that there are a ton of variables even in the chemical side of things, and obviously ones attitude toward the substance is going to induce chemicals in their brains that are different. Perhaps it would be possible to measure those differences, but I still don't think that if you were able to change that chemical to the same as the one for someone who did believe it was a real spiritual experience that that would make it so. Not without destroying the person's Atheism.
To Lysergic. I would agree that using archetypes Aya has a feminine energy. For me it was a bit like taking a tour of another dimension, with a tour guide. Aya (the MAOI containing plant, in this case Yage vine) was there, telling me what was going on and keeping me safe from the things I encountered. Guided felt more accurate than guiding, she didn't tell me what to do, where I could go, how to fix my problems, nothing like that, she just explained what I was seeing, the only directive she gave me was don't do DMT powder. It definitely did take me to another world, for timeless periods, My friend who was trip sitting said they were about 20 minutes each, but he did not have a watch, then I would be back in the "real" world, but in a very altered state. Interacting with the fire, or the crickets, or the stars (actually, the stars did not respond to me, the fire and crickets did, and my friend saw and heard that too, although admittedly fire will respond to anyone who puts wood on it or blows on it)
Aya is certainly more "expensive" in a physical sense, it induces puking and you have to be careful about your diet or the MAOI can kill you. I also restricted my diet for spiritual reasons for about a month beforehand (not quite as tight as the Aya Shamans, but I tried to follow their guidelines) No idea if that is necessary or not, Aya didn't really say.
Well in that sense that Aya is the taking of a tour of another dimension with a guide, DMT kinda just throws you into another dimension and leaves you to figure it all out for yourself.
I'm a natural escapist, so that is very appealing. That's about what I have heard from other people too. It also sounds like something that would be very bad for me. And not something I'd suggest for all, being tossed into another dimension could be traumatic in a bad way for a lot of people.
Well, the way I think about it, if you were to ever only do one "hard" drug in your life, it should be DMT.
It'll either scare you off all drugs for life or keep you content until your next life.
Sometimes, people need a traumatic experience to "wake up", so to speak.
And as far as I know, no one has walked away from a DMT experience and thought it to be a bad thing.
A very intense, very earth shattering thing, definitely, but negative, I've yet to hear of.
I know someone who used to have schizophrenia until he did DMT. It set him straight and he never did it (or any other hard drug) again...
I did that to someone with Dramamine. Dramamine is a deleriant, same family of chemicals as Belladonna and Jimsonweed (well, there's also atropine in belladonna, which just kills you) He wanted to try the hardest drug out there, I told him that it was dramamine in my experience, and after that he was off drugs. It damaged him though in ways that I didn't see the extent of becuase part of his change in life was cutting off contact with me.
I haven't heard of DMT doing anything bad to people, I have seen people get some really whacky ideas after Aya trips that they took quite seriously. Some changed their diets in ways which were harmful to them. One became a really obnoxious born again Christian.
I got high on Dramamine once when I was 17. Hardest I've ever tripped in my life, and thoroughly unenjoyable. About a week after I tried it, a kid that went to the high school across town from mine drowned in a mudpuddle while high on dramamine. A month after that, a kid that wen to my high school got killed by a train while high on dramamine. Needless to say, the fad was pretty short-lived.
Yeah, being a hardcore escapist I tripped on Dramamine twice. Definitely completely unenjoyable, and extremely extremely intense. I am grateful for it because from what I can tell the experience is not entirely dissimilar from Datura and Belladonna, which I had been curious about, and the dosage on Dramamine is much easier to control, so I was able to experience that family of drugs with a much lower chance of killing myself that would have happened if I had gone for Datura or Belladonna.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Harmine. That was the name I was trying to remember.
Just another drug.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic. An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience. If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
Auyahuasca, depending on the recipe can have several chemical compounds in it including DMT, Harmine and some kind of MAOI.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 08:16:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 08:08:49 PM
I just took a really spiritual shit. The ghost of Gandhi began speaking from the commode, remonstrating me for my evil ways. So I flushed his ass.
To hell with spirituality.
The other day, I was doped up on Lexapro for the first time in several months. About an hour after taking it, I was sitting in class and began feeling strangely excited, like my body was in need of a long hard run, or three hundred pushups or something. Then the headache started, and the nausea, I felt my stomach slowly come to a boil as my brain melted behind my eyeballs. It was like my organs were swimming in slightly off cheese spread.
Suddenly I sprang up and ran out the door, nearly falling down the stairs. I could hear the toilet calling to me, bidding me kneel to it's porcelain beauty. This powerful feeling of internal upheaval lead me to begin my offering, a stream of steaming stomach acid. My eyes rolled back into my head, as I convulsed, and then lay on the ground dazed.
So, was that a spiritual experience?
Only you can say. I've had spiritual experiences shitting before. A few times while on drugs, a few times not. The times not on drugs were really unpleasant, but spiritual experiences aren't always pleasant.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic. An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience. If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)
Though I know two atheists that saw aliens when they were tripping. Which of course ties in the the Cosmic Trigger argument that the brain sticks whatever available metaphor it can over the thing it doesn't understand.
"Hey, its something weird... must be God!"
"Hey, its something weird... must be Aliens!"
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Harmine or Harmaline? That's an MAOI, taken by itself it produces mild euphoria, nausea, and has an anti-depressant quality. Aya is a mix of different plants, generally one plant contains both Harmine and Harmaline and the other contains DMT and also 5-MEO-DMT (5 MEO is the one usually thought as responsible for producing the "spiritual experience" since it mimics the brain chemistry of mystics) I think telepathine is another name for Harmine.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:36:35 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic. An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience. If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)
Though I know two atheists that saw aliens when they were tripping. Which of course ties in the the Cosmic Trigger argument that the brain sticks whatever available metaphor it can over the thing it doesn't understand.
"Hey, its something weird... must be God!"
"Hey, its something weird... must be Aliens!"
Yep, that's how I explain the guy who became a born again after Aya.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
I understand the difference, just clarifying we were talking about DMT analog + MAO inhibitor combination hallucinatory experience.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:48:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
I understand the difference, just clarifying we were talking about DMT analog + MAO inhibitor combination hallucinatory experience.
Yep, unless you smoke extracted DMT it doesn't make you trip without the MAOI.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:48:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
I understand the difference, just clarifying we were talking about DMT analog + MAO inhibitor combination hallucinatory experience.
Yep, unless you smoke extracted DMT it doesn't make you trip without the MAOI.
Did I not just say that? Jesus christ.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:48:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
I understand the difference, just clarifying we were talking about DMT analog + MAO inhibitor combination hallucinatory experience.
Yep, unless you smoke extracted DMT it doesn't make you trip without the MAOI.
Did I not just say that? Jesus christ.
Err sorry, I was just agreeing.... next time I'll stfu
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:48:11 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:15:42 PM
I believe the person was an apostate Christian when he took the Aya, and so that was the form that the divine took for him. He may have rejected that reality tunnel on a conscious level but he hadn't really shed it.
Oh, that's that "telepathine" shit, right?
Yep. People initially mislabeled the Harmine as some new chemical compound. Turns out it was already known, documented and had been used for thousands of years as a psychedelic on the other side of the planet.
The interesting thing about aya is the weirdness of the mix. The Mimosa Hostillis root bark does you no good without the leaves of the Viridis plant. (Or, the Harmine is not usable by your system without an MAOI). The plants don't necessarily grow near each other, nor do they appear to be 'special' (nor do they do much of anything on their own)... but somehow the native people figured out that root bark + leaves + hours and hours of steeping + drinking that shit gave you visionary experiences.
Not magical, just interesting.
Is this Ayuhuasca (di-methyl triptamine) we're talking about here?
DMT and Aya are two different things, just like beer and ethanol are two different things. (well, not just like it, since the 5-meo-DMT and the Harmine and Harmaline definitely also contribute to the experience)
I understand the difference, just clarifying we were talking about DMT analog + MAO inhibitor combination hallucinatory experience.
Yes we are. Thinking aya is just DMT is a common mistake on hippy boards was why I hastened to correct the perceived misconception. My apologies, I sometimes forget that people on PD are less ignorant than people most places.
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Is that Phalaris grass?
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 10:10:51 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Is that Phalaris grass?
Yeah.
Phalaris arundinacea and a few other species in that genus.
P. aquatica comes to mind. Just found it hilarious years ago when I first found out, because
Phalaris grows everywhere in the midwest, and it would be so so easy to hide them in a ditch somewhere right in the open. No one would know the difference. It would be about like cultivating
Cannabis to potency, but then once you had it, MAOI's can be purchased online easily. The most potent hallucinogen known to humans in a weedy grass monoculture, coming to a wetland near you. :lulz:
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Meh. I've heard the smoked DMT is mediocre. If you're gonna fuck yourself up over the moon crazy, might as well do it right.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Meh. I've heard the smoked DMT is mediocre. If you're gonna fuck yourself up over the moon crazy, might as well do it right.
I suppose once extracted you could eat it with an MAOI, I just gathered that attempts to make it into a tea, as with mimosa bark or the more traditional admixtures, yielded no success.
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Apparently easier for you than for me. I don't know that I have ever managed that.
Also, for me, psychedelics aren't so much about removing the filter as swapping it with a different one.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:20:26 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Meh. I've heard the smoked DMT is mediocre. If you're gonna fuck yourself up over the moon crazy, might as well do it right.
I suppose once extracted you could eat it with an MAOI, I just gathered that attempts to make it into a tea, as with mimosa bark or the more traditional admixtures, yielded no success.
I just share Dkr. Howl's opinion about these things: you either take drugs (prescription or non) because you are fucked up and pills give you some stability, you buy into drug culture (which is fucking stupid), you are avoiding life (which is also stupid)
OR
You are out to fucking a good time. A crazy good time. A good time TO THE WALL. Which is why, I believe, the good Dkr. eats cactus now and then.
Half way doesn't do it. Halfway is just buying in to laziness and avoiding shit.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Apparently easier for you than for me. I don't know that I have ever managed that.
Also, for me, psychedelics aren't so much about removing the filter as swapping it with a different one.
Precisely.
I'm a fan of cactus, but I don't do it to look at the world in a different way, I do it because it makes me into even more of a horrible shit than I am normally, and I like that once in a while.
But looking at the world without filters takes practice and hard work. Sort of like meditation and all that other hippy shit, only it's useful (and funny), in a horrible way.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:25:44 PM
You are out to fucking a good time. A crazy good time. A good time TO THE WALL. Which is why, I believe, the good Dkr. eats cactus now and then.
This.
Plus, it gives you an excuse to explain to your wife why your garbage cans are riddled with buckshot and your trash is scattered over 4 acres.
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Meh. I've heard the smoked DMT is mediocre. If you're gonna fuck yourself up over the moon crazy, might as well do it right.
I found it to be very strong and it didn't make me purge like aya... but it doesn't last nearly as long.
Though watching a little gnome run across the room was an interesting experience.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 10:52:14 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Kai on August 25, 2010, 10:08:57 PM
More interestingly, one of the most invasive and common aquatic grasses in North America can be cultivated for essentially the same DMT-analogs of Mimosa bark. It takes some work, but can be done.
Yeah, phalaris grass. I don't think Phalaris can be used in the same way as Aya, the Aya board I was on suggested it could not. However it can be extracted from it to make smokable DMT.
Meh. I've heard the smoked DMT is mediocre. If you're gonna fuck yourself up over the moon crazy, might as well do it right.
I found it to be very strong and it didn't make me purge like aya... but it doesn't last nearly as long.
Though watching a little gnome run across the room was an interesting experience.
The purge felt like a valuable part of the Aya experience for me. I am not a fan of puking in most cases, but in this case it felt necessary.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Apparently easier for you than for me. I don't know that I have ever managed that.
Also, for me, psychedelics aren't so much about removing the filter as swapping it with a different one.
Precisely.
I'm a fan of cactus, but I don't do it to look at the world in a different way, I do it because it makes me into even more of a horrible shit than I am normally, and I like that once in a while.
But looking at the world without filters takes practice and hard work. Sort of like meditation and all that other hippy shit, only it's useful (and funny), in a horrible way.
You can look at the world without filters? Could you go into some detail there?
On more than one occaision, The Fear™ has actually removed my Ego completely. Only for a few minutes at a time, but when it comes back, it is proportional, cleansed by The Fear™, and full of Joy. And life is quite moar biggerer than you can possibly imagine, without him / me / it. Shit, you had to be there, like we were. I was literally Holocausted. (Cleansed by the Light that burns, but not consumed) Like Moses was when he burned some bush. Or Elijah, in his Chariot of fire.
But the most profoundly awe full occaision for me, was when Lord Krsna showed me Krisna Consciousness. All I had to do, was learn what Devotion meant. I love Lord Krisna. He doesn't want people on their knees, mumbling parayers to him. He wants us all up and dancing, like good little atoms. Vibrating to the frequency of Radio Krisna. He even fed me a huge bowl of delicious Black beans, peppers, and rice afterwards. That was truly Hospitable of him. Seeing as I just happened to stumble into his Temple, peaking on over 2000 mikes of Acid. Which I'm sure, had I stumbled into one of JHVH's drab little Temples, I would have done a Samson, and torn the place down with my Thunderfist, my lightening hands, and my great balls of fire. Serendipity found Krisna instead for me, (Not a bad trick to pull off, in rural Somerset, with very little notice)
(http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae95/Swatilekha/Copyofkrishanji_176x144.gif)
This thread makes me glad I don't do drugs.
Reading this thread makes me wish I was on drugs right now, rather than having to deal with this shit.
Way to go! *Yawn* :boring:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 25, 2010, 05:35:57 PM
But maybe not you're aorta:
http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2010/amphetamine-misuse-linked.html
QuoteYoung adults who misuse amphetamines have a three-fold risk for tears in the aorta -- the body's largest artery -- compared with nonusers, Reuters reported Aug. 17.
Researchers at the University of Texas examined the medical records of 31,000 Americans ages 18–44 hospitalized between 1995–2007 and found that patients who abused amphetamines had three times the risk for aortic dissection than patients who did not, even after controlling for other risk factors.
Amphetamines are known to increase heart rate and blood pressure. Aortic tears are potentially fatal.
The research team also examined medical records of 49 million U.S. adults over age 50, but did not find an increased risk in this age group.
"Doctors should screen young adults with aortic dissection for amphetamine abuse in searching for a potential cause," said Dr. Arthur Westover, lead author of the study.
The research appears in the August 2010 issue of the American Heart Journal.
Uhhhh what's the difference between "abuse" and getting it prescribed medically for ADD/ADHD?
Cause the latter group tends to use it daily, sometimes in pretty high doses, even (depending on severity of affliction).
I guess now I know why my doc takes my blood pressure every time I see him. Good thing.
Additionally, I always wondered about this. See, we don't have a problem with meth in the Netherlands as you do. And also, Adderal is (generally) not prescribed to people with ADD/ADHD here (they use ritalin, dexamphetamine, concerta, strattera, SNRIs). But Adderal is a pill made up of a mix of methylfenidate (ritalin), dexamphetamine AND METHAMPHETAMINE!! :x How does that work? I mean, how does that jive with the whole "meth. not even once." prevention campaign?
It is tricky. There is a particularily sensitive area around what seems like over-prescribing of ADHD drugs to children and what impact that is having. And honestly the prevention community is split on the issue. Many would like to see more regulations and guidance when it comes to diagnosing and prescribing for ADHD. Especially when some kids will decide that they're okay and then divert their meds to other kids. Or maybe they were faking or exaggerating from the beginning to get the drugs.
All that aside, I think the impact upon a child, if the drug is taken as prescribed, is not going to be as big as hits of crystal meth. Now, when they start doubling and tripling up on their dosage, then things can become much worse.
I think prescribing drugs to children for psychological problems is wrong and the use of drugs which effect the brain should be avoided until the brain has finished maturing. There was a study i read i can't remember which one but i think it suggested that the age of development was about twenty i think. The onus of the study was that if you introduce brain altering chemicals before the brain is fully developed then it will hinder development.
I had/have ADHD when i was at school it was not a diagnosis that was thrown around. The problem was that i had an uncontrollable energy and when my attention span was too short i would cause trouble because i was bored. The problem with me was that if i didn't understand what i was being taught then i used that energy to understand, when i understood and got bored because the pace was too slow or i disagreed with exhaustive repetition i caused trouble.
I have tried quite a few different drugs, 2CB, DMT, English, Mexican and Hawaiian mushrooms, Cactus. Strangely the one which gave me the closest i could explain as an OBE was when i had some Indian Ketamine, where half way through my journey i thought "I better just go back to my body to make sure i am still breathing" which is the furthest out there i have been.
You can buy Ketamine from any pharmacist in India and even mail it back to yourself, very cheap too.
I won't bore you with my experience. I generally look at psychedelic/psychotropic (however you want to label it) drugs as a shortcut to deep meditation. I used to mediate a lot and have had some fun experiences, but that was after quite a lot of training. Since i haven't had the time to train or i can't be bothered, drugs are handy especially with practice and taking them with a purpose in mind
Actually brain development goes well into the 20s some studies say up until 25 or 26. I suspect as we learn more we will see it actually goes into the early 30s.
(re: two posts ago)
Well, yes, but I wasn't talking about children in particular. Most people I know with ADD/ADHD are in their 20s.
Okay to be quite honest, I was talking about me. They upped my dosage a little while ago (which actually works pretty well), and my doc indeed checks my blood pressure when I visit him, but since I'm taking this stuff daily, while not in abusive (I think) amounts of course, but the new dosage is about what I guess someone would take before going to a rave or something. So either both me and the raver will have higher risk of aortarial splattering, or they don't (ugh it makes me queezy to think of).
Anyway I'll just ask my doctor next time and he'll tell me it's fine :-)
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 26, 2010, 12:08:50 PM
Actually brain development goes well into the 20s some studies say up until 25 or 26. I suspect as we learn more we will see it actually goes into the early 30s.
Yes i think as with most studies it was an average. As far as i am aware if you keep learning new ideas and concepts then your brain neurons are actively changing (can't wait to see the neurologist jump on me for my ignorance) and your brain is still developing, which in turn effects the passage of conscious time. That is why when you attend your first educational institution and pick up concepts which change your perceptions of reality quite regularly, that one year seems to last the equivalent of five years or so for someone in say their thirties who doesn't read anything new, works, comes home and watches television Monday to Friday and engages with nothing new save the news and a television series or movie and then asks "where did last year go".
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 26, 2010, 12:24:40 PM
(re: two posts ago)
Well, yes, but I wasn't talking about children in particular. Most people I know with ADD/ADHD are in their 20s.
Okay to be quite honest, I was talking about me. They upped my dosage a little while ago (which actually works pretty well), and my doc indeed checks my blood pressure when I visit him, but since I'm taking this stuff daily, while not in abusive (I think) amounts of course, but the new dosage is about what I guess someone would take before going to a rave or something. So either both me and the raver will have higher risk of aortarial splattering, or they don't (ugh it makes me queezy to think of).
Anyway I'll just ask my doctor next time and he'll tell me it's fine :-)
I am sure that the doctor is as passive about the side effects as everyone else who reads through the included information which gives you a great big list of possible harmful effects. Doctors tend to prescribe things that they have not read the medical journal reviews of and tend to just follow suite with what other doctors are doing. So long as your don't have an obviously visible bad reaction they will just tell you it is safe and fine.
In all fairness it probably is but with prescription drugs being arguably the second or third largest cause for death in the first world i try to stay clear, or at least read what the medical reviews say about the drug in question and studies done on them which you can get access to quite easily depending on where you live. Generally the FDA and the WHO are "good" http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/UCM111085 (http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/UCM111085) Google is your friend.
What i did to use my ADHD was to cut out television and the News which i think helped a lot and i recently quit computer games then actively use my energies to replace the space with activities of my own doing.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 26, 2010, 12:24:40 PM
(re: two posts ago)
Well, yes, but I wasn't talking about children in particular. Most people I know with ADD/ADHD are in their 20s.
Okay to be quite honest, I was talking about me. They upped my dosage a little while ago (which actually works pretty well), and my doc indeed checks my blood pressure when I visit him, but since I'm taking this stuff daily, while not in abusive (I think) amounts of course, but the new dosage is about what I guess someone would take before going to a rave or something. So either both me and the raver will have higher risk of aortarial splattering, or they don't (ugh it makes me queezy to think of).
Anyway I'll just ask my doctor next time and he'll tell me it's fine :-)
Yeah but you are doing this under the close consult of a doctor. I think the scenarios that concern us in the field are the docs who prescribe and then really don't do much to check in with the patients. Assuming you are with a doctor you are comfortable and who is really invested in making sure you are healthy, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:36:35 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic. An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience. If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)
Though I know two atheists that saw aliens when they were tripping. Which of course ties in the the Cosmic Trigger argument that the brain sticks whatever available metaphor it can over the thing it doesn't understand.
"Hey, its something weird... must be God!"
"Hey, its something weird... must be Aliens!"
I guess I'm unusual, in that my brain tends to go with "Hey, it's something weird, must be...something weird that I don't understand yet!"
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 26, 2010, 01:25:59 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 09:36:35 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 25, 2010, 07:42:19 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree (basically, I don't believe in the concept of spirituality), but it is refreshing to see someone who's stance on the subject actually seems well though-out and researched as opposed to the typical "no, man, you just don't understand the MAGIC of it!" that I usually hear. So thanks for at the very least forcing me to think through and reaffirm my own point of view on the issue at hand.
This was basically the point I was discussing with Lysergic. An atheist with strong convictions isn't going to have a spiritual experience, even if his brain chemistry is identical to someone who believes in spirit having a spiritual experience. If you could change that part of the chemistry that constitutes his disbelief he might, but you'd also be destroying his Atheism (not because the experience is "actually" spiritual but because you chemically changed his beliefs)
Though I know two atheists that saw aliens when they were tripping. Which of course ties in the the Cosmic Trigger argument that the brain sticks whatever available metaphor it can over the thing it doesn't understand.
"Hey, its something weird... must be God!"
"Hey, its something weird... must be Aliens!"
I guess I'm unusual, in that my brain tends to go with "Hey, it's something weird, must be...something weird that I don't understand yet!"
I think that is the best way to be that is how i am also. I think people try too hard to understand the metaphysical and place it into a convenient context to understand it rather than just keeping an open mind and understanding the effect of the experience and knowing they can't understand the actual experience.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 11:52:58 AM
I have tried quite a few different drugs, 2CB, DMT, English, Mexican and Hawaiian mushrooms, Cactus. Strangely the one which gave me the closest i could explain as an OBE was when i had some Indian Ketamine, where half way through my journey i thought "I better just go back to my body to make sure i am still breathing" which is the furthest out there i have been.
You can buy Ketamine from any pharmacist in India and even mail it back to yourself, very cheap too.
I won't bore you with my experience. I generally look at psychedelic/psychotropic (however you want to label it) drugs as a shortcut to deep meditation. I used to mediate a lot and have had some fun experiences, but that was after quite a lot of training. Since i haven't had the time to train or i can't be bothered, drugs are handy especially with practice and taking them with a purpose in mind
I tried 2CB once.
Only time I ever actually forgot my own name.
Quote from: Triple Zero on August 26, 2010, 12:24:40 PM
(re: two posts ago)
Well, yes, but I wasn't talking about children in particular. Most people I know with ADD/ADHD are in their 20s.
Okay to be quite honest, I was talking about me. They upped my dosage a little while ago (which actually works pretty well), and my doc indeed checks my blood pressure when I visit him, but since I'm taking this stuff daily, while not in abusive (I think) amounts of course, but the new dosage is about what I guess someone would take before going to a rave or something. So either both me and the raver will have higher risk of aortarial splattering, or they don't (ugh it makes me queezy to think of).
Anyway I'll just ask my doctor next time and he'll tell me it's fine :-)
I'd say it's both you and the raver. There are some important differences though. For one, because you are using a legal source rather than street drugs you know exactly what your dose is. For another you are being monitored by a doctor, so if there is a problem it will get noticed and treated before it becomes too serious.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 11:52:58 AM
Strangely the one which gave me the closest i could explain as an OBE was when i had some Indian Ketamine, where half way through my journey i thought "I better just go back to my body to make sure i am still breathing" which is the furthest out there i have been.
You can buy Ketamine from any pharmacist in India and even mail it back to yourself, very cheap too.
Yeah, I've had a fair bit of that Indian Ketamine, It's very different to Ketalar, or even British Vetinary Ketamine. Nice and pure too. I think it returned 1 gram per ml. It's very out of body. I ended up splitting the whole space time thing, and followed a half hour earlier version of myself around for a while. It got boring, because I knew what I was going to do next, and I didn't want to start following myself, following myself around, because, y'know, that could have got confusing.
I thought it would be like tripping at first, and while it is technically hallucinogenic, it's certainly not like tripping. Disassociative anaesthesia. Very interesting places it takes you to. But don't make the mistake of taking it orally. The impaired motor function effect kicks in before the head thing does, and it's quite unpleasant. I found the best way to do it was to have a quite small hit, every 20 mins or so. It makes you psychic too. If there's 3 or 4 of you doing it, you end up running in and out of each other's heads, and forgetting who you are. The most important thing, ( & I can't overstress this enough) is to try and stay within 6 or 7 feet of a sofa, at all times.
Welcome to marshmallow world. Sticky toffee land.
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
Hippy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSr7h_pjxs
Or if you prefer, with sheeps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8kOMonAaDg&feature=related
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx128/ChuckFukmuk/GIFS/371.jpg)
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
Well said. I try to do the same
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 11:52:58 AM
Strangely the one which gave me the closest i could explain as an OBE was when i had some Indian Ketamine, where half way through my journey i thought "I better just go back to my body to make sure i am still breathing" which is the furthest out there i have been.
You can buy Ketamine from any pharmacist in India and even mail it back to yourself, very cheap too.
Yeah, I've had a fair bit of that Indian Ketamine, It's very different to Ketalar, or even British Vetinary Ketamine. Nice and pure too. I think it returned 1 gram per ml. It's very out of body. I ended up splitting the whole space time thing, and followed a half hour earlier version of myself around for a while. It got boring, because I knew what I was going to do next, and I didn't want to start following myself, following myself around, because, y'know, that could have got confusing.
I thought it would be like tripping at first, and while it is technically hallucinogenic, it's certainly not like tripping. Disassociative anaesthesia. Very interesting places it takes you to. But don't make the mistake of taking it orally. The impaired motor function effect kicks in before the head thing does, and it's quite unpleasant. I found the best way to do it was to have a quite small hit, every 20 mins or so. It makes you psychic too. If there's 3 or 4 of you doing it, you end up running in and out of each other's heads, and forgetting who you are. The most important thing, ( & I can't overstress this enough) is to try and stay within 6 or 7 feet of a sofa, at all times.
Welcome to marshmallow world. Sticky toffee land.
Yeah i found that trying to imagine myself going higher and higher like with meditation i had a less personal centered experience and kept trying to go higher and more simplified. It was quite fun and i spoke to my friend after wards and asked if he went to the 'counsel of the gods' and he apparently did too we had slightly different things that we saw but that was a major similarity
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
:mittens:
I think there's a difference between people who use drugs and people that get stuck in the bliss cycle.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
:mittens:
I think there's a difference between people who use drugs and people that get stuck in the bliss cycle.
Bliss is pretty pointless without the fear of The Fear™. It just teaches people to be complacent. And that just isn't acceptable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwIjrvA7hJU
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 05:15:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
:mittens:
I think there's a difference between people who use drugs and people that get stuck in the bliss cycle.
Bliss is pretty pointless without the fear of The Fear™. It just teaches people to be complacent. And that just isn't acceptable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwIjrvA7hJU
Bliss can be amazing, but you have to come out of it long enough to make use of the experience. People that are permanently tripping/high etc seem stuck in the experience without gaining anything from it... and thus babble on about Life, The Universe etc in ways that they might feel, but can't usefully express... cause they're riding that bliss rather than hanging out in reality.
I also agree on The Fear. :lulz:
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 10:55:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Apparently easier for you than for me. I don't know that I have ever managed that.
Also, for me, psychedelics aren't so much about removing the filter as swapping it with a different one.
Precisely.
I'm a fan of cactus, but I don't do it to look at the world in a different way, I do it because it makes me into even more of a horrible shit than I am normally, and I like that once in a while.
But looking at the world without filters takes practice and hard work. Sort of like meditation and all that other hippy shit, only it's useful (and funny), in a horrible way.
You can look at the world without filters? Could you go into some detail there?
Nobody can look at the world without
any filters at all...After all, we all have biases. However, if you constantly question those biases, try to look at things with a fresh set of eyes, you can minimize over time the "built in" filters you use.
Mind altering drugs don't do that. They add filters. Huge ones.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I am one of those contemptible human beings that enjoys these things for self-improvement reasons. Dramatic perceptual shifts spike my creativity. These toys have done wonders for me, helping me leverage myself into the relatively cool person I am today. In the right settings, I have had what some might call a "spiritual experience". I don't have a lot of language to describe it, but ego death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death) is pointing in the right direction. This is what I aim for. One of these experiences once or twice a year helps keep me grounded and self aware. And I think I've turned out okay and not become some kind of hippie wankstain.
this is pretty much how I feel about it (I sometimes jokingly refer to it as "squeegeeing my third eye clean"), but I see no need to attempt to make some sort of spiritual experience or any other such mumbo-jumbo out of it, it's just a way to remind myself of my place in the universe.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 26, 2010, 06:38:38 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 25, 2010, 10:55:51 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on August 25, 2010, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 25, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Or you could just try looking at things without a filter once in a while.
Apparently easier for you than for me. I don't know that I have ever managed that.
Also, for me, psychedelics aren't so much about removing the filter as swapping it with a different one.
Precisely.
I'm a fan of cactus, but I don't do it to look at the world in a different way, I do it because it makes me into even more of a horrible shit than I am normally, and I like that once in a while.
But looking at the world without filters takes practice and hard work. Sort of like meditation and all that other hippy shit, only it's useful (and funny), in a horrible way.
You can look at the world without filters? Could you go into some detail there?
Nobody can look at the world without any filters at all...After all, we all have biases. However, if you constantly question those biases, try to look at things with a fresh set of eyes, you can minimize over time the "built in" filters you use.
Mind altering drugs don't do that. They add filters. Huge ones.
Ah, very good. Your initial comment made it sound as though you were filterless ;-)
Minimizing filters, in my experience doesn't require drugs. However, my experiences with drugs have helped me identify some filters and change those (when I'm sober). The people that think tripping will clear their vision on its own seem incorrect to me. Its the post-trip analysis and action that seems the most useful to me.
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 07:02:25 PM
Ah, very good. Your initial comment made it sound as though you were filterless ;-)
Sorry, I absolutely refuse to use e-prime in every post. I had thought it obvious that anyone who was absolutely filterless would also be absolutely insane.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 26, 2010, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 07:02:25 PM
Ah, very good. Your initial comment made it sound as though you were filterless ;-)
Sorry, I absolutely refuse to use e-prime in every post.
Well, you said 'without filters' which seems to say 'filterless' e-prime or not.
QuoteI had thought it obvious that anyone who was absolutely filterless would also be absolutely insane.
That's why I asked you to clarify rather than saying you were nuts ;-)
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 07:07:19 PM
Well, you said 'without filters' which seems to say 'filterless' e-prime or not.
I think I'm done for the day.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 26, 2010, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 07:02:25 PM
Ah, very good. Your initial comment made it sound as though you were filterless ;-)
Sorry, I absolutely refuse to use e-prime in every post. I had thought it obvious that anyone who was absolutely filterless would also be absolutely insane.
And would therefore take great care not to exhibit any of the symptoms of "Old Sanity", instead, leading the lost ones by example, along the broad new vista, of the glorious "New Sanity".
As a Wise Woman once said, "Only the True Messiah will deny his Divinity"
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 07:14:45 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 26, 2010, 07:04:36 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on August 26, 2010, 07:02:25 PM
Ah, very good. Your initial comment made it sound as though you were filterless ;-)
Sorry, I absolutely refuse to use e-prime in every post. I had thought it obvious that anyone who was absolutely filterless would also be absolutely insane.
And would therefore take great care not to exhibit any of the symptoms of "Old Sanity", instead, leading the lost ones by example, along the broad new vista, of the glorious "New Sanity".
As a Wise Woman once said, "Only the True Messiah will deny his Divinity"
I JUST CAN'T WIN, CAN I?
Dok,
Has been taken up.
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, or stupid, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I was a far more insufferably full of shit, pineal know it all, and then some arsehole, than you have any hope of being. I didn't need to listen to anyone, read anything, adjust my point of view, because I had "attainned a place of perfection". Even thinking about how stupids I had makes me cringe today. :lulz: What a laughably naive and punchably irritating wanker I was! (I must apologise sincerely to anyone who had to ***** my bullshit back then) So maybe you pradoxiacally are both sane, and not sane at the same time. (But if this is the case, I think it's actually classed by the Medical people as insane)
And then BB was drug away mid sentence.
Quote from: Secret Level on August 26, 2010, 11:33:10 PM
And then BB was drug away mid sentence.
But in an artful piece of cut and stitch, time has again been repaired, and my keyboard's sticky keys are now shiny, clean, and fully operational. As is my post.
And I think this link is actually relevant to the thread today, instead of my usual random "seemed like a good idea" impulse links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRV0PNqnHaY
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I
After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.
I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth. When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the
physical feeling i felt in my chest. It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on. Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening. Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap. At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually. Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring. I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there. This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record
there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml)
No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will. I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions. If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.
Took me a long time to type that, yes i believe i am classed as clinically insane. Which worries me considerably :lulz:
I did have my insufferably full of shit, pineal know it all, and then some arsehole, who didn't listen to anyone period, i think everyone does.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I
After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.
I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth. When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest. It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on. Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening. Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap. At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually. Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring. I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there. This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml)
No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will. I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions. If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.
Really? The longest I've not slept is almost 7 days. That only occurred once in my life, while I was grieving my Grandmother. By the 3rd day, I would have sworn that I hadn't slept in a week. That's when the hallucinations started. First, everything would ache- bones, muscle, I could swear the chair I was sitting in would hurt, sometimes, too. Then, randomly, the feeling would stop and a flush of euphoria wash over me. Another day in, still surfaces would start to become wavy, or rounded; I would see flickers and streaks from the corners of my eyes, recalling only seconds later having seen a distinct and visible human form before me. I tried to sleep. I tried
hard. I smoked weed, I drank NyQuil, I exercised, did chores, warm milk, boring TV shows...nothing. About the fifth day, I was basically what BadBeast described, which is, in short, a horrible mess of a wreck. Hunger pains would sound in my stomach, I would attempt the harrowing task of making food, only to find that it nauseated me. The timber of sounds would change without cause; deep reverberation would come from something that should sound shallow and tinny. I couldn't even remember what sleep was a this point. And it lasted another two days.
I seriously doubt that you went 20.
Moreover, laying in your bed with your eyes closed...I'm thinking you slept at least some.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I
After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.
I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth. When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest. It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on. Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening. Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap. At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually. Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring. I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there. This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml)
No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will. I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions. If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.
unequivocal absolute bullshit.
you'd be dead, end of story.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 12:51:32 AM
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring.
Sounds like sleep. Even if you woke up every hour or half hour.
unequivocal absolute bullshit.
you'd be dead, end of story.
[/quote]
Not really, i suggested that it is possible i did sleep as i was not under the observation of somebody else i cannot prove that i didn't. I am certain i did not sleep and offered an alternative that i may have been in deep meditation to get rest lowering my brain activity and only using my consciousness and not my physical senses, and the functions of my brain stem. I was quite clear that i offered alternatives and I cannot explain exactly what happened without having somebody observe me, so it was not unequivocal.
As for being dead may i direct you here again
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/ (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/)
Just to make it clearer for you, from this article
'According to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.'
in other words, sleeping.
"DUR, I WENT 20 DAYS WITHOUT SLEEPING, EXCEPT FOR THE NAPS I TOOK EVERY DAY."
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 02:35:20 PM
in other words, sleeping.
"DUR, I WENT 20 DAYS WITHOUT SLEEPING, EXCEPT FOR THE NAPS I TOOK EVERY DAY."
In other words i am admitting i could be wrong. I am also showing the possibility that which i believe is what happened. I thought i would do the job of showing that i could be wrong objectively, because it seemed that was something you seemed unable to do.
"In other words, I posted some stupid shit to try to show how CRAZY and EXTREME I am and got called out on being full of shit, now I'm backpedalling furiously."
Is how I read that.
PROTIP: it's OK to just say "yeah, I was full of shit, my bad."
People here will respect that and let it go much quicker than if you just keep on keeping on.
Or, he could have essentially reflected what the articles state as accurately as possible, that it was probably subjective:
"There was a period of about 20 days when I honestly thought I hadn't slept at all-- I know that sounds impossible, and it probably didn't happen that way, but I swear that's what it felt like. Hell, even if I didn't actually, can you imagine just feeling that way?"
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 02:46:40 PM
"In other words, I posted some stupid shit to try to show how CRAZY and EXTREME I am and got called out on being full of shit, now I'm backpedalling furiously."
Is how I read that.
Read what? Your post of
"unequivocal absolute bullshit. you'd be dead, end of story."Yes i agree
Perhaps your right Dok but i don't usually find the need to explain the subjective world and the objective world differently, what i was trying to explain was that my objectivity was to acknowledge and note the subjective experiences without forming a definite conclusion. We all know that the subjective world is subject to the objective rules of physics and so on but we do not find the need to say.
" On the way home today i honestly thought and i know this sounds weird and it probably didn't happen like this, but the bus ran over somebody lying down on the road, if felt like we did, i thought i heard a man scream and a crunching noise, and i felt terrible, even if that didn't happen can you imagine how horrible i felt"
I'm an insomniac, due to medical problems too hilarious to discuss. Without my medication, I will sometimes go days (50-75 hours without sleeping). After 30 hours, you are incapable of doing much of anything. After 40 hours, it's actually painful to be conscious. At 50+ hours, you're a raving lunatic. At 60 hours, you're basically a vegetable.
So I call bullshit on DEM. Period, end of story.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 03:04:04 PM
Perhaps your right Dok but i don't usually find the need to explain the subjective world and the objective world differently, what i was trying to explain was that my objectivity was to acknowledge and note the subjective experiences without forming a definite conclusion. We all know that the subjective world is subject to the objective rules of physics and so on but we do not find the need to say.
" On the way home today i honestly thought and i know this sounds weird and it probably didn't happen like this, but the bus ran over somebody lying down on the road, if felt like we did, i thought i heard a man scream and a crunching noise, and i felt terrible, even if that didn't happen can you imagine how horrible i felt"
"I didn't sleep for 20 days"
"It felt like I hadn't slept in 20 days."
One takes the appearance of objective truth, even when such truth is biologically improbable.
The other conveys your experience, which is much close to any sort of truth you are relating.
ECH is reacting to what you wrote, that you didn't sleep for 20 days. When you responded by saying, "oh, i was relating my subjective experience," that opened you up to the accusation of bullshitting/backpedaling.
You don't have to take my advice of how to convey your experiences, of course. But you will be posting a lot more trying to clarify yourself if you don't.
I was awake for 20 days, but it all felt like a dream. Then I woke up. (I didn't even know I was sleeping)
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.
Now I fucking hate you.
I was awake for 20 days, but not in a row.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I
After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.
I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth. When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest. It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on. Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening. Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap. At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually. Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring. I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there. This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml)
No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will. I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions. If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.
Correct me if i am wrong but my reply to ECH was .
Not really, i suggested that it is possible i did sleep as i was not under the observation of somebody else i cannot prove that i didn't. I am certain i did not sleep and offered an alternative that i may have been in deep meditation to get rest lowering my brain activity and only using my consciousness and not my physical senses, and the functions of my brain stem. I was quite clear that i offered alternatives and I cannot explain exactly what happened without having somebody observe me, so it was not unequivocal.
As for being dead may i direct you here again
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/
Just to make it clearer for you, from this article
'According to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.'I don't believe i said there i was relating my subjective experience
:monkeydance:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 03:19:07 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.
Now I fucking hate you.
I was relating to the use of drugs to remove the filters and that they can't do it. Not that everyone has to travel to insanity......
Is it anywhere near "Insania"?
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 03:19:07 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively.
Now I fucking hate you.
I was relating to the use of drugs to remove the filters and that they can't do it. Not that everyone has to travel to insanity......
Shut your fucking hole, you smarmy littlle bullshitter.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 03:22:14 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 12:51:32 AM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 26, 2010, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Sleep. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
?
Actually, I can't see how you can view anything with objectivity, if, by your own admission, you're insane. How would you know if you could trust your own judgement or not? How do you know "you went to insanity" once? A Weed High can be a bit mad, but at the end of the day, it's not "insane".
Also, the "20 days without sleep" is a wildly exaggerated claim, and not at all objective. I know from personal experience, and Clinical Research, that at any point approaching 10 days without sleep, you are at a very definite limit. There is a very real danger of death, that increases by the hour by day ten. You will have no cognitive skills to speak of, your motor skills are packing up minute by minute, your liver, kidneys, and heart, are suffering from toxiosis, due to build up of stress hormones. The simplest tasks, such as eating a bowl of soup, are beyond your power. You can't remember simple things like the names of family members, how to use simple items like lightswitches. The record for going without sleep is nearly 12 days. Even if given huge (and I do mean huge) doses of Amphetamine at this point, there is only maybe another day it can give you.
Your "gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", Is this under clinical conditions, or a therapeutic environment? Or just talking to mad people? (For fun, not science) The tricky thing, in this life, is to be able to "understand and communicate" with people who are apparently sane. The Insane will sit and talk to themselves, or a fellow patient, or a fucking Rubber plant for hours and hours. Then have no recall of the discourse. How are you any different to the Rubber plant?
But you're not totally without merit, and I'm really not attacking you. At 26, I
After about nine days of not sleeping i was experiencing visual and audio hallucinations which would last until i looked away or willed them away i was aware that these were not real but that did not stop them effecting me but i attempted to reason what the meaning of the hallucinations were and were these a product of a creative imagination or messages from my sub-conscious or was i observing an outside phonomena.
I know i went to insanity once or perhaps i should have said the closest i could be without actually falling into it because i was seeing what i can describe as a humanoid shape about seven feet tall appearing from a vortex in front of me. It was black like a shadow and it had spike like apendages and an over sized gaping gash like a mouth. When it appeared it changed the definition of dread for me because that is the only way i can describe the physical feeling i felt in my chest. It phased in and out and moved position next to my face in front of me and so on. Then I could hear several different voices all talking incomprehensibly in one ear, then both ears which gradually became more aggressive and it seemed if i was hearing with my ears would be deafening. Whilst this was happening I was just observing and not particularly bothered by it because i knew it was my imagination and if it was really an interdimensional being it couldn't physically strike me or hurt me. This continued for a while and the feeling of dread became a lot worse and i felt like i was losing myself, the best way i can describe it is my mind felt like a non-shatter ruler when you bend it and it is about to snap. At that point i thought i better do something and willed it to disappear and it did back into the vortex eventually. Like i said admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but i wasn't high it was from the not sleeping the effects came from, i think the weed made my insomnia worse.
It was about twenty days i am not sure exactly. I did not sleep but i would goto bed and rest by closing my eyes and laying there for hours until the morning eight hours or more very very boring. I would often check my watch every hour or so to see how long i had to lay there. This was not done under lab conditions and it is not something i would care to repeat believe what you will, that i was meditating or whatever and just for the record there is a man who has not slept by eating raw vegatables i can't find the documentary i am sure someone else could but this will have todo
http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml (http://news.softpedia.com/news/This-Man-Has-Not-Been-Sleeping-For-34-Years-62224.shtml)
No this is not under clinical conditions i would like to do some work with the mentally ill but unless i did volunteer work it is unlikely i will. I have managed to converse with several people who are mentally ill and get sense out of them where others cannot on a couple of occasions. If someone suffers from acute alzheimer's or dementia i doubt it would matter.
Correct me if i am wrong but my reply to ECH was .
Not really, i suggested that it is possible i did sleep as i was not under the observation of somebody else i cannot prove that i didn't. I am certain i did not sleep and offered an alternative that i may have been in deep meditation to get rest lowering my brain activity and only using my consciousness and not my physical senses, and the functions of my brain stem. I was quite clear that i offered alternatives and I cannot explain exactly what happened without having somebody observe me, so it was not unequivocal.
As for being dead may i direct you here again
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/
Just to make it clearer for you, from this article
'According to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.'
I don't believe i said there i was relating my subjective experience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJLv46_N6c
BadBeast. Constructively insulting people since 1966.
Sorry, Deus. You're on your own, now.
I don't think i was being smarmy.
I am being honest and modest.
I am not trying to convince you, believe what you want to believe, i simply wanted to add an experience which i had which would suggest that taking drugs isn't really worth it and i had a "crazier" experience from sleep deprivation and how i think drug use leads to what i experienced over a prolonged exposure. It was a hypothesis i was postulating i thought that would be discussed rather than whether what happened to me happened or not. If you read the links i posted you would have also seen that a man has lived thirty six years or so without sleep.
I do not ask that you believe a word i say as i said before it was not done under lab conditions, if it was and there was a study done on it and i had verifiable results then i would say look at this and be able to say with certainty that was the case. I admit i don't have that and i offered it as an example in my original post so that it was clear you could believe me or not believe me. I am not interested in arguing whether what happened was true or not, i thought i covered that in my original post. I was more interested for some kind of debate
That is fine Aphapance thanks for your input.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 03:39:11 PM
I don't think i was being smarmy.
I am being honest and modest.
I am not trying to convince you, believe what you want to believe, i simply wanted to add an experience which i had which would suggest that taking drugs isn't really worth it and i had a "crazier" experience from sleep deprivation and how i think drug use leads to what i experienced over a prolonged exposure. It was a hypothesis i was postulating i thought that would be discussed rather than whether what happened to me happened or not. If you read the links i posted you would have also seen that a man has lived thirty six years or so without sleep.
I do not ask that you believe a word i say as i said before it was not done under lab conditions, if it was and there was a study done on it and i had verifiable results then i would say look at this and be able to say with certainty that was the case. I admit i don't have that and i offered it as an example in my original post so that it was clear you could believe me or not believe me. I am not interested in arguing whether what happened was true or not, i thought i covered that in my original post. I was more interested for some kind of debate
That is fine Aphapance thanks for your input.
YOU CAN REALLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE? UNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
YOU CAN TRAVEL TO INSANITY AND BACK? YOU SO SPECIAL.
Dok,
Has actual first hand experience with this, and thinks you should die in a fire. Thanks.
Finally what i wanted!
Recognition that i am special thank you, we could have ended this a lot sooner if someone said that a long time ago.
Bullshit you have first hand experience of this i am the special one who did. You clearly were just half asleep deluded or mistaken
(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/monkeydance.gif)
Glad we sorted that out.
Oh no, we are back to square one.
Ok, last attempt.
Deus, some of the people on this board have literally gone insane. You know, medically diagnosed, hospitalized, all that.
These people do not take kindly to people making offhanded references to how wonderful, or fulflling, or exciting, or funny, it is to "be crazy". Because they know better.
So, there you go.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 04:56:10 PM
Ok, last attempt.
Deus, some of the people on this board have literally gone insane. You know, medically diagnosed, hospitalized, all that.
These people do not take kindly to people making offhanded references to how wonderful, or fulflling, or exciting, or funny, it is to "be crazy". Because they know better.
So, there you go.
Won't help. DEM is a fucking retard. See above post. He is now in the Dr Cowass catagory, as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 04:51:19 PM
Bullshit you have first hand experience of this i am the special one who did. You clearly were just half asleep deluded or mistaken
Eat shit and die, you fucked up little hipster creep.
There are taboos in discordianism?
I went insane i said what happened, i drew experience from it and i tried to share my take on it. It was something which happened to me, i didn't want to write a fifteen page dialogue explaining how long it lasted, what other things i experienced and every little detail because i wasn't looking for sympathy or trying to get acknowledgment and i don't care to dwell on those memories. I would have thought that if someone else had been through something similar they might have some understanding.
I was not making offhand references to how wonderful, or fulfilling, or exciting, or funny, it is to be "crazy" i thought it was relevant to the discussion on taking psychedelic drugs in a great intensity, regularly. My point was that taking drugs this way could lead to insanity so don't do it.
I tried to be as clear as possible and as patient as possible. If this is not how it appeared then it is down to my miscommunicating or by people not reading what i wrote carefully without prejudice either or.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PM
The house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
These five pillars are:
The First Pillar: Discord. Drama and infighting have always been a part of PD, right from the very beginning. Sometimes it's low key, sometimes it's mad screeching and hollering, all over the board. It's not ALL of what Discordia is, but it IS an intrinsic part. If this makes you pull up your skirts and shriek, maybe you should find out wherever Paes scurried off to, and join him. Eris wants no sissies.
Am i misunderstanding something here?
:popcorn:
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
There are taboos in discordianism?
No. But we're not really REAL discordians for realness. We're a collection of horrible cunts who squat on the domain name and bushwhack innocent folks like yourself. We do this because it's funny, and because the free market demands it.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
I went insane i said what happened, i drew experience from it and i tried to share my take on it.
And we called you a liar. And a shitneck.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PM
The house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
These five pillars are:
The First Pillar: Discord. Drama and infighting have always been a part of PD, right from the very beginning. Sometimes it's low key, sometimes it's mad screeching and hollering, all over the board. It's not ALL of what Discordia is, but it IS an intrinsic part. If this makes you pull up your skirts and shriek, maybe you should find out wherever Paes scurried off to, and join him. Eris wants no sissies.
Am i misunderstanding something here?
Yes. The pillars don't apply to retards.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 05:17:31 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
There are taboos in discordianism?
No. But we're not really REAL discordians for realness. We're a collection of horrible cunts who squat on the domain name and bushwhack innocent folks like yourself. We do this because it's funny, and because the free market demands it.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
I went insane i said what happened, i drew experience from it and i tried to share my take on it.
And we called you a liar. And a shitneck.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PM
The house of Eris is held up by five pillars, five concepts that have kept this board and this way of life going for 8 years now. Not everyone has any use for all five of these, but to attempt to eliminate one or more of them is to begin the gradual destruction of the user base (this is already happening, after the no-fluff crusade a month or so ago).
These five pillars are:
The First Pillar: Discord. Drama and infighting have always been a part of PD, right from the very beginning. Sometimes it's low key, sometimes it's mad screeching and hollering, all over the board. It's not ALL of what Discordia is, but it IS an intrinsic part. If this makes you pull up your skirts and shriek, maybe you should find out wherever Paes scurried off to, and join him. Eris wants no sissies.
Am i misunderstanding something here?
Yes. The pillars don't apply to retards.
Well i know about as much about discordianism as is in the illuminatus triology, so there is not much loss there.
Have you found it funny bushwacking me?
Yes then i called you a liar, and i crossed some kind of line didn't i?
Okay well now i know it doesn't apply to retards.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:52:35 PM
Well i know about as much about discordianism as is in the illuminatus triology, so there is not much loss there.
Have you found it funny bushwacking me?
Yes then i called you a liar, and i crossed some kind of line didn't i?
Okay well now i know it doesn't apply to retards.
I don't give a fuck what you call me, Sparky. Your ridiculous shit has rendered your credibility to levels on par with, say, Donald Rumsfeld. Nothing you say has any value whatsoever. The funny part, though, is that you think you crossed the line when you called me a liar, apparently missing the little signs preceding that ("Now I fucking hate you"), when you made those asinine comments regarding insanity.
You're a piss-poor liar and utterly worthless as anything more than a chew toy. You haven't received half the kicking around you deserve, nor a quarter of that which will be forthcoming.
The more you know!
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
There are taboos in discordianism?
I went insane i said what happened, i drew experience from it and i tried to share my take on it. It was something which happened to me, i didn't want to write a fifteen page dialogue explaining how long it lasted, what other things i experienced and every little detail because i wasn't looking for sympathy or trying to get acknowledgment and i don't care to dwell on those memories. I would have thought that if someone else had been through something similar they might have some understanding.
I was not making offhand references to how wonderful, or fulfilling, or exciting, or funny, it is to be "crazy" i thought it was relevant to the discussion on taking psychedelic drugs in a great intensity, regularly. My point was that taking drugs this way could lead to insanity so don't do it.
I tried to be as clear as possible and as patient as possible. If this is not how it appeared then it is down to my miscommunicating or by people not reading what i wrote carefully without prejudice either or.
1) self-diagnosis of insanity is about as valid as cherohonkees.
2) or you were just full of shit and refuse to admit it like a proper biped would.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 05:59:32 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 05:13:20 PM
There are taboos in discordianism?
I went insane i said what happened, i drew experience from it and i tried to share my take on it. It was something which happened to me, i didn't want to write a fifteen page dialogue explaining how long it lasted, what other things i experienced and every little detail because i wasn't looking for sympathy or trying to get acknowledgment and i don't care to dwell on those memories. I would have thought that if someone else had been through something similar they might have some understanding.
I was not making offhand references to how wonderful, or fulfilling, or exciting, or funny, it is to be "crazy" i thought it was relevant to the discussion on taking psychedelic drugs in a great intensity, regularly. My point was that taking drugs this way could lead to insanity so don't do it.
I tried to be as clear as possible and as patient as possible. If this is not how it appeared then it is down to my miscommunicating or by people not reading what i wrote carefully without prejudice either or.
1) self-diagnosis of insanity is about as valid as cherohonkees.
2) or you were just full of shit and refuse to admit it like a proper biped would.
It's like they're given a script.
BUT IF I ADMIT TO BEING WRONG AND/OR FULL OF SHIT, I WILL DIE!!!
\
:nigel:
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:04:16 PM
BUT IF I ADMIT TO BEING WRONG AND/OR FULL OF SHIT, I WILL DIE!!!
\
:nigel:
I talk out of my ass all the time, usually without knowing it (spouting truisms, etc). Nigel and a few others have been pretty good at jerking me up short on it. What can you do, right? "Whoops. Apparently, I was wrong."
But then a real jackass like DEM comes along, spouts some totally unbelievable bullshit
and won't let it go. I STAYED AWAKE FOR 20 DAYS. RENAL FAILURE DOESN'T APPLY TO ME, COS I'M MAHDJGICKQUAL!
\
:joshua:
Ai can haz tolks with peeplze, wen they has madness. (I went to insomnia Insania)
Ai can cownt to ate ten twelvety TWENTY!
There has not been one post you have given me any validity for so there is no change there.
All your posts say i fucking hate you, fuck off my world.
Asinine comments, in your opinion.
I do not need to lie to fill some inadequacy and i would rather someone put me straight if i am wrong hence why i haven't gotten angry or upset.
1. I really could not care less, why the fuck would i claim i was insane? I will not even bother trying to argue about self-diagnosis.
2. You can say i am full of shit as much as you like it will not change my mind about what i know i went through. I don't need a red fucking ribbon from some quack or from anyone else i could not give a fuck about validation. Live with it.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
Ai can haz tolks with peeplze, wen they has madness. (I went to insomnia Insania)
Ai can cownt to ate ten twelvety TWENTY!
:potd:
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
There has not been one post you have given me any validity for so there is no change there.
All your posts say i fucking hate you, fuck off my world.
Asinine comments, in your opinion.
I do not need to lie to fill some inadequacy and i would rather someone put me straight if i am wrong hence why i haven't gotten angry or upset.
1. I really could not care less, why the fuck would i claim i was insane? I will not even bother trying to argue about self-diagnosis.
2. You can say i am full of shit as much as you like it will not change my mind about what i know i went through. I don't need a red fucking ribbon from some quack or from anyone else i could not give a fuck about validation. Live with it.
Oh, sure, I'll live with it. I like laughing at people like you. Fucking moron. :lulz:
Well that is good then, i have had a hell of a lot of laughs because of you
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
1. I really could not care less, why the fuck would i claim i was insane? I will not even bother trying to argue about self-diagnosis.
2. You can say i am full of shit as much as you like it will not change my mind about what i know i went through. I don't need a red fucking ribbon from some quack or from anyone else i could not give a fuck about validation. Live with it.
1) because you want to be special, presumably.
1A) there is no argument to be made regarding self-diagnosis, unless you are a trained medical professional in the mental health field. Otherwise you have no objective basis for diagnosing yourself as having gone insane.
2) so, you KNOW you went without sleep for 20 straight days. Oh, except for all the naps you took, but those don't count. But maybe it only FELT like 20 days, even though you originally stated in in concrete terms. Correct me if I've missed something.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:17:23 PM
Well that is good then, i have had a hell of a lot of laughs because of you
I know, Sparky, I know. Just like every other butthurt shitmonger that's cratered the drywall here in the past.
so far, I've checked off "not real discordians" and "you're all entertaining me".
any bets on which one comes next?
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:18:50 PM
Correct me if I've missed something.
HE DID IT ON TEH ASSTRAL PLANEZ!
\
:magick:
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:20:02 PM
so far, I've checked off "not real discordians" and "you're all entertaining me".
any bets on which one comes next?
Social experiment!
OK, I'm gonna take "hive mind".
Yes that is it. I want to be thought of as special because i would like to delude myself that extraordinary things have happened to me in my life that have only happened to about another fifty million people last year.
I didn't state anything in concrete terms you can read what i posted yourself, maybe try quoting what i wrote rather than just misrepresenting what i said and basing your strange assumptions on this.
Exit i think you have a problem with reading things properly, i think i will reply to you when you can actually reply to what was written not what you assume was written.
This is some kind of social experiment.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:27:49 PM
Yes that is it. I want to be thought of as special because i would like to delude myself that extraordinary things have happened to me in my life that have only happened to about another fifty million people last year.
I didn't state anything in concrete terms you can read what i posted yourself, maybe try quoting what i wrote rather than just misrepresenting what i said and basing your strange assumptions on this.
Exit i think you have a problem with reading things properly, i think i will reply to you when you can actually reply to what was written not what you assume was written.
This is some kind of social experiment.
SO CLOSE! KEEP GOING, SPARKY! BABY NEEDS NEW SHOES!
YOU ARE ALL REAL DISCORDIANS AND THIS IS A TEST OMFGLOLZORDSROFSMS :horrormirth:
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:29:53 PM
YOU ARE ALL REAL DISCORDIANS AND THIS IS A TEST OMFGLOLZORDSROFSMS :horrormirth:
NO, NO, NO! :crankey:
DO IT RIGHT!
This is Discordia in action.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:32:37 PM
This is Discordia in action.
:facepalm:
GODDAMMIT, YOU LITTLE SHITNECK, DO IT RIGHT. I HAVE HORRIBLE CHEAP SWILL AMERICAN "BEER" RIDING ON THIS!
Hail Eris
Enjoy your beer
If you survive here, you'll look back on this thread, and realise the people you thought were just here to rip you into tiny tiny bits of n00blet, were actually giving you good, sound advice, along with lifelines. If you had lurked some of the other threads, you may have seen the whole circus, broken down into useful sized lumps of "How to be moar really real, so ai can haz :fnord: burgerz "
There is no 'victory' here for you, no validation of worth. No "Sorry mate, you were right all along". No retractions, no remorse, and no moderation. No one will come along and say "Hey you guys, ease up on the poor n00bz". No one will pass you Kleenex, pat you on the back and say "Nevermind, just ignore them, they're just horrid Bullys"
If you can't see the way to extricate yourself, then you will sink, forgotten into the depths. And no-one will miss you, because there are 50 more, just like you, waiting to try the same stupid things, that had the same one result, as the last 50 did.
For re-iterartion, I refer you to the catchy little song I posted the link to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJLv46_N6c
Try and listen to it, as if you were somebody else, that way you can more easily hear past the implied insult, and realise there's some fucking good advice in there. (More than I usually waste on spaggy, wacky n00bz, and their outlandish stupids, at any rate)
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
If you survive here, you'll look back on this thread, and realise the people you thought were just here to rip you into tiny tiny bits of n00blet, were actually giving you good, sound advice, along with lifelines. If you had lurked some of the other threads, you may have seen the whole circus, broken down into useful sized lumps of "How to be moar really real, so ai can haz :fnord: burgerz "
There is no 'victory' here for you, no validation of worth. No "Sorry mate, you were right all along". No retractions, no remorse, and no moderation. No one will come along and say "Hey you guys, ease up on the poor n00bz". No one will pass you Kleenex, pat you on the back and say "Nevermind, just ignore them, they're just horrid Bullys"
If you can't see the way to extricate yourself, then you will sink, forgotten into the depths. And no-one will miss you, because there are 50 more, just like you, waiting to try the same stupid things, that had the same one result, as the last 50 did.
For re-iterartion, I refer you to the catchy little song I posted the link to. Try and listen to it, as if you were somebody else, that way you can more easily hear past the implied insult, and realise there's some fucking good advice in there. (More than I usually waste on spaggy, wacky n00bz, and their outlandish stupids, at any rate)
It doesn't help. They never listen. They just keeping marching in, one moron after another, and go down the chute to the choppy things.
You can't help them. They won't let you.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you
meant, but not what you actually
said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
HE CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. LIKE IN DANCES WITH WOLVES, ONLY DIFFERENT.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:37:50 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
If you survive here, you'll look back on this thread, and realise the people you thought were just here to rip you into tiny tiny bits of n00blet, were actually giving you good, sound advice, along with lifelines. If you had lurked some of the other threads, you may have seen the whole circus, broken down into useful sized lumps of "How to be moar really real, so ai can haz :fnord: burgerz "
There is no 'victory' here for you, no validation of worth. No "Sorry mate, you were right all along". No retractions, no remorse, and no moderation. No one will come along and say "Hey you guys, ease up on the poor n00bz". No one will pass you Kleenex, pat you on the back and say "Nevermind, just ignore them, they're just horrid Bullys"
If you can't see the way to extricate yourself, then you will sink, forgotten into the depths. And no-one will miss you, because there are 50 more, just like you, waiting to try the same stupid things, that had the same one result, as the last 50 did.
For re-iterartion, I refer you to the catchy little song I posted the link to. Try and listen to it, as if you were somebody else, that way you can more easily hear past the implied insult, and realise there's some fucking good advice in there. (More than I usually waste on spaggy, wacky n00bz, and their outlandish stupids, at any rate)
It doesn't help. They never listen. They just keeping marching in, one moron after another, and go down the chute to the choppy things.
You can't help them. They won't let you.
Don't get me wrong, I know exactly where it's going. I just want to be able to get a few "Self righteous, ever suffering Altruist" points in when some-one says, "Aaw Man, someone should have tried to help those Guys"
I beat you to it, about three pages ago.
Done in a very polite manner, as well.
Do they listen?
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 06:42:46 PM
I beat you to it, about three pages ago.
QUIXOTIC QUEST IS QUIXOTIC!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
HE CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. LIKE IN DANCES WITH WOLVES, ONLY DIFFERENT.
You may laugh Dok, but have you ever looked into the eyes of a Wolf? (It's a life changing experience)
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 06:42:46 PM
I beat you to it, about three pages ago.
Done in a very polite manner, as well.
Do they listen?
Damn you and your "Been there done it, nyeaw nyeaw nee-nyeawh wah " attitude, Alphapance!
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:44:06 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
HE CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. LIKE IN DANCES WITH WOLVES, ONLY DIFFERENT.
You may laugh Dok, but have you ever looked into the eyes of a Wolf? (It's a life changing experience)
Okay. Shat myself.
But it's "but have you ever looked deeply into the eyes of a Wolf?" You have to cram in the extra spaggotry.
Yeah, Cram is the absolute Master of extra spaggotry. :ohnotache:
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:51:37 PM
Yeah, Cram is the absolute Master of extra spaggotry. :ohnotache:
Actually, he's an undead monster that's out to steal our womenfolk.
To be precise.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:44:06 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
HE CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. LIKE IN DANCES WITH WOLVES, ONLY DIFFERENT.
You may laugh Dok, but have you ever looked into the eyes of a Wolf? (It's a life changing experience)
:lulz:
almost just choked on my freezy pop.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
If you survive here, you'll look back on this thread, and realise the people you thought were just here to rip you into tiny tiny bits of n00blet, were actually giving you good, sound advice, along with lifelines. If you had lurked some of the other threads, you may have seen the whole circus, broken down into useful sized lumps of "How to be moar really real, so ai can haz :fnord: burgerz "
There is no 'victory' here for you, no validation of worth. No "Sorry mate, you were right all along". No retractions, no remorse, and no moderation. No one will come along and say "Hey you guys, ease up on the poor n00bz". No one will pass you Kleenex, pat you on the back and say "Nevermind, just ignore them, they're just horrid Bullys"
If you can't see the way to extricate yourself, then you will sink, forgotten into the depths. And no-one will miss you, because there are 50 more, just like you, waiting to try the same stupid things, that had the same one result, as the last 50 did.
For re-iterartion, I refer you to the catchy little song I posted the link to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJLv46_N6c
Try and listen to it, as if you were somebody else, that way you can more easily hear past the implied insult, and realise there's some fucking good advice in there. (More than I usually waste on spaggy, wacky n00bz, and their outlandish stupids, at any rate)
I got that straight away, what can i say? I am a horrible fucking cunt, if you ask for discord and get it, well you asked for it.
I know there is no victory or pats on the back or anything, that is the opposite of what i want.
I will extricate myself and take your advice.
I pretty much don't need to pretend it was aimed at someone else i am quite humble and take abuse and whatever on the chin and try figure out why someone would give me that abuse, but like i said i am a cunt so i don't let on.
I am gonna lurk a lot more then because i am sure, no doubt what i just typed is complete shit and i will post when i figure out what the fuck to type.
Apart from the book review.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:44:06 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2010, 06:39:06 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
HE CAN ONLY COMMUNICATE WITH CRAZY PEOPLE. LIKE IN DANCES WITH WOLVES, ONLY DIFFERENT.
You may laugh Dok, but have you ever looked into the eyes of a Wolf? (It's a life changing experience)
I have, right before I fucking gutted it with my ancestral stone knife. I ate that bitches eyes too. Life change experience, for the wolf.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:55:43 PM
I am a horrible fucking cunt,
No you fucking aren't. You're an idiot. You can call yourself a horrible cunt when your balls drop.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:20:02 PM
so far, I've checked off "not real discordians" and "you're all entertaining me".
any bets on which one comes next?
"I don't need you to validate what I already know to be true" Is that one? #6 said something like that anyway, and he was exemplary.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
bumped, because I don't think he'll be able to come up with a response to this.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:36:18 PM
If you survive here, you'll look back on this thread, and realise the people you thought were just here to rip you into tiny tiny bits of n00blet, were actually giving you good, sound advice, along with lifelines. If you had lurked some of the other threads, you may have seen the whole circus, broken down into useful sized lumps of "How to be moar really real, so ai can haz :fnord: burgerz "
There is no 'victory' here for you, no validation of worth. No "Sorry mate, you were right all along". No retractions, no remorse, and no moderation. No one will come along and say "Hey you guys, ease up on the poor n00bz". No one will pass you Kleenex, pat you on the back and say "Nevermind, just ignore them, they're just horrid Bullys"
If you can't see the way to extricate yourself, then you will sink, forgotten into the depths. And no-one will miss you, because there are 50 more, just like you, waiting to try the same stupid things, that had the same one result, as the last 50 did.
For re-iterartion, I refer you to the catchy little song I posted the link to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waJLv46_N6c
Try and listen to it, as if you were somebody else, that way you can more easily hear past the implied insult, and realise there's some fucking good advice in there. (More than I usually waste on spaggy, wacky n00bz, and their outlandish stupids, at any rate)
I got that straight away, what can i say? I am a horrible fucking cunt, if you ask for discord and get it, well you asked for it.
I know there is no victory or pats on the back or anything, that is the opposite of what i want.
I will extricate myself and take your advice.
I pretty much don't need to pretend it was aimed at someone else i am quite humble and take abuse and whatever on the chin and try figure out why someone would give me that abuse, but like i said i am a cunt so i don't let on.
I am gonna lurk a lot more then because i am sure, no doubt what i just typed is complete shit and i will post when i figure out what the fuck to type.
Apart from the book review.
Don't be so hard on yourself.
BadBeast. Never lets an opportunity to say "Hard on" pass him by.
Being a horrible cunt takes WORK and PRACTICE.
DEM is a cunt posuer.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
1. I really could not care less, why the fuck would i claim i was insane? I will not even bother trying to argue about self-diagnosis.
2. You can say i am full of shit as much as you like it will not change my mind about what i know i went through. I don't need a red fucking ribbon from some quack or from anyone else i could not give a fuck about validation. Live with it.
1) because you want to be special, presumably.
1A) there is no argument to be made regarding self-diagnosis, unless you are a trained medical professional in the mental health field. Otherwise you have no objective basis for diagnosing yourself as having gone insane.
2) so, you KNOW you went without sleep for 20 straight days. Oh, except for all the naps you took, but those don't count. But maybe it only FELT like 20 days, even though you originally stated in in concrete terms. Correct me if I've missed something.
I think even a trained mental health professional might have trouble doing a self diagnoses, since it really is impossible not to be biased in that sort of thing.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:20:02 PM
so far, I've checked off "not real discordians" and "you're all entertaining me".
any bets on which one comes next?
"I don't need you to validate what I already know to be true" Is that one? #6 said something like that anyway, and he was exemplary.
That has to be one. I think most of the trolls capable of expressing themselves have said it at one point or another.
Quote from: BadBeast on August 27, 2010, 06:57:33 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:20:02 PM
so far, I've checked off "not real discordians" and "you're all entertaining me".
any bets on which one comes next?
"I don't need you to validate what I already know to be true" Is that one? #6 said something like that anyway, and he was exemplary.
He's already done that one
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 27, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
There has not been one post you have given me any validity for so there is no change there.
All your posts say i fucking hate you, fuck off my world.
Asinine comments, in your opinion.
I do not need to lie to fill some inadequacy and i would rather someone put me straight if i am wrong hence why i haven't gotten angry or upset.
1. I really could not care less, why the fuck would i claim i was insane? I will not even bother trying to argue about self-diagnosis.
2. You can say i am full of shit as much as you like it will not change my mind about what i know i went through. I don't need a red fucking ribbon from some quack or from anyone else i could not give a fuck about validation. Live with it.
also, the harder you fight, the more comical this becomes for the rest of us. YOU CAN DO IT!
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:59:19 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on August 27, 2010, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days
i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
these are both concrete statements, presented as fact. So I may be misrepresenting what you meant, but not what you actually said. If you aren't able to say what you mean, that's nobody's fault but yours.
but I still think you were probably just full of shit.
bumped, because I don't think he'll be able to come up with a response to this.
still waiting to hear how I "misrepresented" what DEM said...
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on August 27, 2010, 03:19:43 PM
I was awake for 20 days, but not in a row.
And I haven't slept for ten days, because that would be too long.
\\
(http://www.weirdworm.com/img/life/4-weirdest-stand-up-comedians/mitch-hedberg.jpg)
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
Back by popular demand for ECH. Whats your point? about me saying the word fact? I know that i actually didn't sleep for about twenty days, you don't.
Excuse me? Fuck what you know about insanity.
/Fuck/ it.
Nothing apparently. I also don't have the gift of being able to diagnose insanity over a forum post like so many others on here seem so adept at. Perhaps there is a class i can take.
There's a pretty handy rule of thumb, to be quite honest.
"Anyone who makes a casual, offhand, or even light-hearted reference to 'being insane', or who appears to be bragging about it, or otherwise claiming to be crazy in an attempt to distance themselves from normalcy, has never been insane."
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 04:47:33 PM
Nothing apparently. I also don't have the gift of being able to diagnose insanity over a forum post like so many others on here seem so adept at. Perhaps there is a class i can take.
It's actually quite easy to determine insanity from posts on a forum.
A lot of what you've said has been completely bat shit insane.
whether you actually believe the bat shit insanity that you've moved from your brain to a keyboard to this forum?
well that's the litmus test now, isn't it?
True but i wasn't attempting to distance myself from normality or use it to show off, i was just saying it "matter of factly" and using it as an example to explain the use of psychedelic drugs and to discourage the use of them.
Well i don't think what i have said is completely bat shit insane. Perhaps except seeing a seven foot tall apparent demon and what i described. I do however believe that what i experienced was not my imagination and whatever i encountered was real/a manifestation that i was tuned into.
So whatever
If you haven't slept for more then 7 days go see a doctor immediately.
Hallucination might be the least of your problems. People can actually die from lack of sleep, especially if they are taking toxins, or too much food to keep their body full of energy.
Again if you haven't slept for more then 7 days go to emergency right away.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
Back by popular demand for ECH. Whats your point? about me saying the word fact? I know that i actually didn't sleep for about twenty days, you don't.
You'd be dead from renal failure, you bullshitter.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 04:47:33 PM
Nothing apparently. I also don't have the gift of being able to diagnose insanity over a forum post like so many others on here seem so adept at. Perhaps there is a class i can take.
Why? You already seem to be a fully medically-qualified self-diagnosing physician.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:00:47 PM
True but i wasn't attempting to distance myself from normality or use it to show off,
"I communicate really well with crazy people." :lulz:
Quote from: The Dancing Pickle on September 02, 2010, 04:56:40 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 04:47:33 PM
Nothing apparently. I also don't have the gift of being able to diagnose insanity over a forum post like so many others on here seem so adept at. Perhaps there is a class i can take.
It's actually quite easy to determine insanity from posts on a forum.
A lot of what you've said has been completely bat shit insane bullshit.
whether you actually believe the bat shit insanity that you've moved from your brain to a keyboard to this forum?
well that's the litmus test now, isn't it?
Fixed.
yeah yeah yeah, not possible, blah blah blah.
forget me for a moment and explain this
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/
(http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/)
fine okay saying i can communicate really well with "crazy" people was a dickish thing to say
From the article you just linked to:
QuoteAccording to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.
THIS IS CONSIDERED "SLEEPING", DUMMY.
Please see my previous post regarding "not sleeping for 20 days" and "feeling as if you haven't slept in 20 days".
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:07:23 PM
yeah yeah yeah, not possible, blah blah blah.
forget me for a moment and explain this
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/
(http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/2855/)
QuoteHow long can a person go without sleep? Last May, a man named Tony Wright was able to break the previous Guinness record of 264 hours (11 days) without sleep, set by 17-year-old Randy Gardner in 1964. Unfortunately for Wright, his 266 hour sacrifice (and any subsequent attempts to break the record) will not be acknowledged by Guinness for health reasons. However, magician and endurance artist David Blaine has recently claimed that he soon aims to best Wright's would-be title.
See? You're a bullshitter.
QuoteWhile Ngoc has received some media attention, scientists have yet to study his case in any detail.
Great example. My uncle can levitate. Scientists haven't studied his case in any detail yet, but I am requiring you to accept this.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
fine okay saying i can communicate really well with "crazy" people was a dickish thing to say
Yes, and it demonstrates that you joined this conversation to show off how "zany" you are. And you've managed to insult the fuck out of at least two people who are or have suffered from legitimate mental illness of one sort or another.
You're an utter shit, and I think you should throw yourself under a train.
Whatever, i joined because i thought i could add something useful to the discussion about psychedelics i really couldn't give a fuck about appearing "zany" i don't act a special way for the benefit of other people, i don't need an act or anything to separate me that i made up or need to show off about. I usually only relate extraordinary things which have happened to me because they are interesting and not the boring day to day things everyone hears all the time. The problem is that people sometimes somehow think they know my motives for doing things better than i do and close their minds off and decide to judge me without getting to know me. I am so tired of this "discussion" the point where there was a chance of me being sectioned at Bootham mental hospital in York was when i sorted myself out okay?
Okay so lets say i had micro-sleep or i slept without dreaming and leave it at that.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on September 02, 2010, 05:10:57 PM
From the article you just linked to:
QuoteAccording to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.
THIS IS CONSIDERED "SLEEPING", DUMMY.
Please see my previous post regarding "not sleeping for 20 days" and "feeling as if you haven't slept in 20 days".
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on September 02, 2010, 05:10:57 PM
From the article you just linked to:
QuoteAccording to Dr. Wadhwa, one explanation could be in perception. He says that for some insomniacs, the ability to clearly observe the difference between sleep and wakefulness may be lacking. "The subject may feel they are merely resting when in actuality they are sleeping. They may also be having "Micro naps"—very short naps lasting minutes," he said.
THIS IS CONSIDERED "SLEEPING", DUMMY.
Please see my previous post regarding "not sleeping for 2your0 days" and "feeling as if you haven't slept in 20 days".
Lack of sleep can also distort your sense of time. Half of day could feel like days. Minutes like hours. Almost like Lucio Fulci movie.
One thing to do that doctors love is to keep a journal. Recording days and updating it on every few hours. Especially what your eating cause your body will require a ton of energy just to function.
But like I said if you haven't slept in 7 days, even just 5 time GO TO THE HOSPITAL. IMMEDIATELY.
They will be like, "Oh 5 days, hrmmm thats nice sir. Why don't you get changed and we're going to introduce your to our little friend Risperidone."
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
Whatever, i joined because i thought i could add something useful to the discussion about psychedelics i really couldn't give a fuck about appearing "zany" i don't act a special way for the benefit of other people, i don't need an act or anything to separate me that i made up or need to show off about.
Uh huh.
Yeah in a way i wish i had made a journal but i think that would have taken away from what little rest i was having. But yeah i had to drink huge amounts of sugar with coffee added (better than saying coffee with lots of sugar) amongst other things to keep my blood sugar up, i am surprised i didn't make myself diabetic
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
Whatever, i joined because i thought i could add something useful to the discussion about psychedelics i really couldn't give a fuck about appearing "zany" i don't act a special way for the benefit of other people, i don't need an act or anything to separate me that i made up or need to show off about.
Uh huh.
Lets just say that people like that i try keep my distance from and i don't hate them as such but i just feel sorry for them a bit i guess.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
The problem is that people sometimes somehow think they know my motives for doing things better than i do and close their minds off and decide to judge me without getting to know me.
Well, that's because you're not communicating very well. And that's fairly strange, because I had a viral-induced epidose that left me basically mentally incapacitated for several weeks, and I've never really been the same since. It damaged multiple friendships, harmed my family life irreparably, made me want to kill myself (during the episode), and has left some minor brain damage.
I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but there are several other people here who have had it worse than I have, so you'll understand when I say "FUCK YOU" for your "communication" comment, and "DIE IN A FIRE" for your bullshit story about how cool being crazy was.
Short version: Nobody believes your shit.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 02, 2010, 05:31:19 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:27:51 PM
Whatever, i joined because i thought i could add something useful to the discussion about psychedelics i really couldn't give a fuck about appearing "zany" i don't act a special way for the benefit of other people, i don't need an act or anything to separate me that i made up or need to show off about.
Uh huh.
Lets just say that people like that i try keep my distance from and i don't hate them as such but i just feel sorry for them a bit i guess.
That's who you
are. And I DO hate you for it.
I am truly sorry for anyone who has had to deal with mental problems and i meant no disrespect.
I really didn't want to make what happened to me sound cool or that i thought it was cool. It bothered me and i still have relapses and i wanted to communicate that taking psychedelics is a bad idea. Okay i communicated that badly and all i can do is apologize i am bad at communicating and i am trying to improve. I have mental health problems in my family and i like to think i am in control so i don't like to dwell on the times i have flipped and lost my sanity i deal with it by thinking of what has happened to me as experience and i have thought that i could help other people with this, maybe that was foolish of me to say unless i intended to do something about it. So i think now that i will
and i would just like to leave it at that please
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:53:09 PM
and i like to think i am in control so i don't like to dwell on the times i have flipped and lost my sanity
Losing your shit != losing your sanity.
FFS.
To his credit, he was apologizing.
Quote from: Doktor Alphapance on September 02, 2010, 06:25:42 PM
To his credit, he was apologizing.
Yes, that's true.
But the first sentence would have been fine. Slapping excuses on the end is just another means of digging in your heels.
However, I'm willing to let it drop. Doesn't mean I plan to talk to him, though.
Sounds to me like DEM needs introducing to my friend Risperidone.
seriously.
and I'm trying not to get wound up by his bullshit. Getting wound up makes my voices start up, and an increase in dosage is going to seriously fuck with my sex life.
In other news i may lose some of my benefits and support with getting work if the medical assessment form means i come out as better than I was before.
Kiss My Ass, asshole.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on August 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
I think you have to travel to insanity and view it objectively, come back to sanity and view it objectively. I have found that drugs can take you near but unless you have a near death experience with them you will only get close. I went to insanity once, admittedly i was smoking weed at the time but it was the fact that i had not slept for about twenty days that took me to the point where the walls fell down and my mind was about to go to the point of no return. Anyway after watching the show for a little while and feeling physical effects from what i was seeing i decided enough and ended it. Now i have quite a gift for understanding and communicating with people who are "insane", i am not insane but paradoxically i am, but i am sane as well.
In my opinion drugs take a lot longer to send you insane but they gradually show you a perspective from an insane viewpoint where all conventional sanity is seen as insanity, useful for dipping into occasionally to break the spell if you will from mass hypnosis not only from media but from language and communication. I would prefer an alternative and i think the only one would be deep meditation. Maybe i will get back to that once i stop smoking.
Back by popular demand for ECH. Whats your point? about me saying the word fact? I know that i actually didn't sleep for about twenty days, you don't.
you did NOT go without sleep for 20 days. It's not possible. You WOULD BE DEAD, which would probably be an improvement. So you're an unrecalcitrant liar, plain and simple, and worse, you're not even man enough to own up to being full of shit adn you instead attempt to slander other people for calling you on your bullshit.
y'know, a simple "yeah, I was full of shit, I just had a long stretch where I only got a couple hours of sleep a day" would have ended this a long time ago, and even a "sorry, man, I didn't mean to call you a liar for pointing out how I misrepresented myself" would have kept me from revisiting the issue, but now?
Now you're on the list. I'm not quick to put somebody in the category of "irredeemable shitneck", but once there you are there FOREVER. I don't just hold a grudge, I pour a concrete foundation around it and reinforce it with re-bar. And I will hound you around this forum for fucking ever to the point where (hopefully) you just won't ever want to bother logging in again. If you offered a sincere apology (not that I think you're even capable if doing so, or even understanding what one is), I might agree to leave you alone as long as you stay out of any threads that I start. On the other hand, if you keep pushing I will take my grudge outside of this site and hound you to the furthest corners of the internet. I will make your online experience so miserable that you won't even want to have electricity anymore. I'm perfectly capable of following through on that, and there is a long list of people who would testify to it if it weren't for the fact that even mentioning me to them would probably set of a bout of PTSD.
In short, fuckburger, DO NEVER TEST.
Okay ECH i am sorry i am shit at communicating and i wasn't calling you a liar i thought you misrepresented what i said is all but ill just accept i am shit at communicating.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 05:33:33 PMi am surprised i didn't make myself diabetic
and I'm disappointed. try harder next time.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 08:07:50 PM
Okay ECH i am sorry i am shit at communicating and i wasn't calling you a liar i thought you misrepresented what i said is all but ill just accept i am shit at communicating.
Truth. You could probably start to improve your communication skills by making separate, complete thoughts, articulated by at least some gesture of punctuation. That might help.
That, or stop trolling.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on September 02, 2010, 08:07:50 PM
Okay ECH i am sorry i am shit at communicating and i wasn't calling you a liar i thought you misrepresented what i said is all but ill just accept i am shit at communicating.
good enough. I'll ignore you if you ignore me.
Okay ECH.
I don't know what trolling is, i only came back on this thread to clear it up.
mm hmm
DeusExMachina has not read the parapsychology thread I started over a month ago, apparently. There is a seriously link to lack of sleep and obesity. Aye, but I'm just Ruby.
These things (self experiments etc) with the pineal gland (among other things) are not for amatueristic voyagers that are just curious about their own body. I understand better just how fanatical even the most reserved individual may seem in certain light. FFS
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 12:34:33 PM
DeusExMachina has not read the parapsychology thread I started over a month ago, apparently. There is a seriously link to lack of sleep and obesity. Aye, but I'm just Ruby.
These things (self experiments etc) with the pineal gland (among other things) are not for amatueristic voyagers that are just curious about their own body. I understand better just how fanatical even the most reserved individual may seem in certain light. FFS
My Pineal gland is the size of a tennis ball, and quite able to produce enough of a pineal pulse to subtly control maybee 300 people. So I know a thing or two about self control. Which is just as well, considering the Tyrant inside me, and his constant plotting. Fortunately my Mother used to slap my legs for showing off, so I learned restraint from an early age.
That doesn't mean I don't use my powers for fun, and personal gain, of course I do. I just keep the "World Domination" urge under a tight reign.
I also learned not to repress it either, or it all leaks out of my ears, and affects the probability matrix for a diameter of about 75 miles, leading to all kinds of Crypto-events, like Spontaneous Human Combustion,
Showers of tiny baby Chupocapris, and clutches of Spring Heeled Jacks.
There is plenty showing off within the posts on this board... Perhaps there will be more 'gettin' than confession reveals.
:p
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
There is plenty showing off within the posts on this board... Perhaps there will be more 'gettin' than confession reveals.
:p
When I said "My Mother used to slap my legs", it was true. She just never slappped them hard enough.
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
There is plenty showing off within the posts on this board... Perhaps there will be more 'gettin' than confession reveals.
:p
Christ, you're an idiot. When is your ban over at TCC?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 27, 2010, 08:14:29 PM
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 02:37:20 PM
There is plenty showing off within the posts on this board... Perhaps there will be more 'gettin' than confession reveals.
:p
Christ, you're an idiot. When is your ban over at TCC?
Still, it can be SLIGHTLY entertaining, though she rarely speaks to one whole person. Catching her drift is like catching a fart in the wind. And the fart smells better.
Sheesh! And ya'll say I am condescending?
Perhaps I should just change my perfume.
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 08:27:01 PM
Sheesh! And ya'll say I am condescending?
Perhaps I should just change my perfume.
So tell me, Ruby, how long is your current ban at TCC?
Dok,
Better them than us.
October 13th, which happens to be one of my most favorite days of the whole year. :p
I won't bother ya much after that.
Quote from: Ruby on September 27, 2010, 08:42:21 PM
October 13th, which happens to be one of my most favorite days of the whole year. :p
I won't bother ya much after that.
You should go to http://godlikeproductions.com while you wait. They're your people.
Do you like politics? Everyone likes politics right? Then maybe you should check out www.politicalcrossfire.com
Bump for hilarity.
I am Nietzsche's Superman
I know irony is for children and quasi-intellectuals but that is why i like it :fap:
The last time I read this thread, I didn't sleep for 20 days afterwards.
Quote from: Cain on June 22, 2011, 08:09:33 PM
The last time I read this thread, I didn't sleep for 20 days afterwards.
I'm glad the uncontrollable vomiting stopped......
I only bumped it to see if it was safe to go back to sleep yet.
Quote from: BadBeast on June 22, 2011, 08:42:50 PM
I only bumped it to see if it was safe to go back to sleep yet.
There are days you can be thankful you live an ocean away :wink:
Quote from: Khara on June 22, 2011, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: BadBeast on June 22, 2011, 08:42:50 PM
I only bumped it to see if it was safe to go back to sleep yet.
There are days you can be thankful you live an ocean away :wink:
Yeah. I love the Ocean. 8)
Talk about waking the dead
Quote from: DeusExMachina on June 22, 2011, 10:31:09 PM
Talk about waking the dead
That thing you put pie in?
Close it.
Quote from: DeusExMachina on June 22, 2011, 10:31:09 PM
Talk about waking the dead
You're not dead. You're asleep.
Quote from: BadBeast on June 22, 2011, 10:36:28 PM
Quote from: DeusExMachina on June 22, 2011, 10:31:09 PM
Talk about waking the dead
You're not dead. You're asleep.
YOU'VE STAYED AWAKE TOO LONG AND NOW YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE!
(bonus points to anyone who can remember how that phrase was generated)
It's only been about eight years and having read through all the posts since I started before I pretty much stand by what I said in it all, still not full of shit, still not lying and I still pretty much didn't sleep for twenty days just eight years wiser now, maybe a better communicator. Probably makes it easier when you aren't on prescribed drugs but something I didn't mention was that I was in a vegetative state for a lot of the time and essentially dreaming while awake hence the hallucinations anyhow I might come back to lurk again on some topics only dropped by over the years occasionally.