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work really well

Compared to the other systems(failed experiments) probably, but another original idea could spring up from somewhere. Hopefully one that doesn't involve forcing itself on people at gun point. Australia has a great thing going, but they are still very human too.

Unlike those inhuman beasts in Denmark, Finland, and The Netherlands, you mean? 

Well, you don't exactly hear about their contributions to the world though. Furthermore, Den, Fin, and Neth are human too; meant that as a fair insult.

They might have some feel good stats to brag about, and those places are would be desirable to live in.
Its just that they still have their dirty secrets and realities of life. Just on a much smaller scare than the completely failed experiments.

(Note: Police actions are the opposite of contributions in any way shape of form.)

work really well

Compared to the other systems(failed experiments) probably, but another original idea could spring up from somewhere. Hopefully one that doesn't involve forcing itself on people at gun point. Australia has a great thing going, but they are still very human too.

"A casino on a plastic beach"

Could it be said that its all about balance?

Economically there is no balance, it's more of a cycle, with a different group on the shit end of the stick each turn it takes.

Randomness dictating who gets the shit end?
Either through random genetic traits allowing you to have skills to pay the bills, or through actual randomness first come, first serve!! If a shit worker comes to the front of the line first, toooo baaaad!

Hrm, no I didn't say random I just said there isn't a balance, it's a complex multivariate system that has a lot of determining factors.

For instance we have had bad weather here for the last few weeks.
Bad weather means few fish caught which means fishermen get less money which means less money in an area, and less fish means more expensive fish which means more expensive food in hotels and restaurants (who tend to buy a lot of fish), higher expenses for hotels of restaurants means recouping cash which means less work hours to go around for staff which means harder working conditions or it means less options for tourists to eat which can mean negative reviews and less people coming.

Now apply this globally, built up of every little component and add in peoples greed, corruption and incompetence as well as the vaguely insane workings of government and you get a rough approximation of what is actually going on.
A system that appears random at a glance which is actually incredibly ordered by volatile.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So like a casino.
With a zoomed in view of one player and one machine, it appears completely random. Even though, nothing is random at all because the casino bosses created the games to be stacked in their favor from the very beginning. Technically giving you the 'possibility' but not the likely hood of victory.

Look at it this way; money is actually a representation of work. When it changes hands, it is buying work of some kind in exchange for someone else's work. If you view it as a representation of work, when it isn't changing hands, what does that mean?

It means you're putting work into a time capsule.  Work gets teleported directly into the future.

In this future it could be worth more or less or the same as it was worth before.
The mattress equates to being a kind of a teleporter/shrink ray of randomness.

The time between being sent and being received has less money circulating.
Which, means the economy's circulatory system has less blood to pump.

Causing symptoms, not death. If symptoms persist, because society is a cowardly hypochondriac, it decides to amputate its own arms and legs so that it doesn't need to use as much blood.

The poor limbs suffer, while the brain and  a few random dangling parts have a party on a golden wheel chair.

And, if you look at it that way, which is better for the economy; saving up today's work in order to spend it later, or exchanging all your work for someone else's work now, and in return, when you get old or otherwise lack the ability to work, those who are still capable of doing a lot of work take care of your basic needs?

Out of the kindness of their own heart? Or would you take care of an old person till they passed, then you would inherit some sort of stale chocolate coin. Then when your old, someone who want that security would help you for your coin? (eating the chocolate would also be an option)

The idea is sound on principle, people are just too #%@#!$ (something too profane for words) to be trusted with the lives of a nice (or crotchety) old person for anything but their own personal gain. (Thats a generalization too, of course there are sweet lovely (insert gender oriented description here) moralfags too.

I concede that point, to replace it with a question.
Could it be said that its all about balance?

I would instead say that it is all about skiing downhill on sheer ice.  You're FINE until you LOSE YOUR NERVE.

Fact:  With only one exception, all the recessions and depressions we've suffered in America (and there were a bunch, especially in the 1800s) were entirely caused by lack of public confidence.

I think, therefore I am. (heard that quote on TV, not claiming to be a philosopher)
(but economically)
I think I am doing good economically, therefore I am doing good economically!
(But on a larger scale)
We think we are doing good economically, and therefore we are doing good economically.
(Emergency arrives)
We think we can unite and face this issue head, doing what is best for the most people and not stab at each other's backs, therefore we can face the issue head on without stabbing each other's backs.

(Ironic that our sustenance come from interacting with the economy, and the economy comes from our belief in it, if that was algebra, belief would equal sustenance, which is sort of what I said in the first sentence)

Could it be said that its all about balance?

Economically there is no balance, it's more of a cycle, with a different group on the shit end of the stick each turn it takes.

Randomness dictating who gets the shit end?
Either through random genetic traits allowing you to have skills to pay the bills, or through actual randomness first come, first serve!! If a shit worker comes to the front of the line first, toooo baaaad!

The reason "savings bonds" were invented was to get the money people were squirreling away under their mattresses back into circulation. Uncirculated money is the death of an economic system, just as much as uncirculated blood is the death of an animal system.

Nice explanation. Choosing to take it one step too literal.

Essentially, the flow speed of cash has to be adequate to provide sustenance for our biological needs. The economy users can be patient and wait for the mattress fillers to spend their money, but not so patient that they die of hunger and weather exposure waiting for it.

Instant spending being too fast to rationally make a choice, and our biological needs creating a time limit.
Somewhere in between those two extremes has to be the correct speed of economic flow.

That is such a vague inconclusive conclusion, but I'm trying to find a common ground everyone can agree with.

When citizens save money, their country then becomes stronger.

Wrong.  When money doesn't move, economies collapse.  Ask the Japanese about that, back in, say, 1989.

I concede that point, to replace it with a question.
Could it be said that its all about balance?

If the citizens are either too broke, then their job becomes slavery.
They would have to do anything to not get fired. (extreme example) Boss says, "suck my dick"
If they hoard too much then there is no money flow.

Maybe there could be a basic savings cap. Enough to eat and be housed for the rest of their lives could be be a good limit perhaps?

(Note that unspent money is not loss, it is opportunity loss)

Negative inflation currencies can be useful in certain economic situations, where one wants to stimulate spending and punish hoarding...but this isn't exactly the same thing.

If the currency could be based on something that remains constant.
Theoretically, it could stay at a perpetual happy medium between the two extremes.

This raises a completely different question though. Why is hording bad?

When someone earns a bunch of money, they aren't exactly grabbing it from people and running to their hideout. The 'profit' was earned by first flowing through long chain of productivity.
Workers, taxes, satisfied consumers, and growth of the business' potential to repeat that process on a larger scale.

When citizens save money, their country then becomes stronger. When ever someone coasts from pay check to pay check they are opening their lives up to infinite possibilities of becoming drains on the system. Those lesser hoarders may not be what you were referring to.

If you are referring to the billionaire or possibly trillionaires.
There are so few of them: they are an abnormality. Their position is a sort of paradox in the monetary system.

Luckily, they are so far outnumbered that there really shouldn't be any need for laws to hold them down.
The power of the masses far out weighs their buying power. Laws specifically to hold people back would not be needed if everyone was simply aware and active. The people wouldn't have to dethrone and behead them. They could just obligatorily elect them as the poor people feeders.

Hi everybody.  On my way home from midnight shift I had a strange money idea. 

Wouldn't it be handy if there were notes or coins with negative value?

That way, if you wanted to buy something that was $4, but you didn't have 4 $1's and the seller didn't have any $1's, you could pay with a $5 bill and a -$1 bill.

Stores that accumulated lots of "negative" money could sell things by allowing the buyer to - instead of paying in positive cash - take on the negative cash in the amount of the value of the item.  i.e. I'll take this $35 CD player and 35 -$1 bills.

In some ways, it's a lot like going into debt.

I don't see a way, however, to resolve the problem of people just collecting massive amounts of negative bills.

anyhow - weird idea - thought i'd share.

This would work if we all had digital currency.
(Putting on a right wing extremist hat.)
It could be a titanium cased RFID chip surgically attached around the chest artery.

Maybe by then, interest on loans (or at least compounding interest)
would be illegal because of the leaching effect it has on currency value.
(Taking hat off)

Cool idea! It would be a desirable alternative to loans!

"Playing at being mentally ill" is not an approach that goes over very well here, FYI.

I'm actually sorry. I didn't think about that.
I swear though, I do have actual doubts about myself, for reason I'm not yet comfortable explaining.
Also, I'm sure I have the genes.

My Only uncle (RIP) was in an institution since before I was born.
My only brother got a little better recently after a ton of church, but seems to not be capable of sympathy.
My mom is a religious fanatic, and is normal for the most part.
And my dad (Rip) had very serious anger issues, and a lot of people I met that knew him, referred to him as crazy Steve.(He was x-special forced, Explosive ordinance disposal in Vietnam)

I am 23, so I could still change forever for all I know.
It really has been a great fear of mine ever since I read about the relation between Schizophrenia and genetics as a kid.

At 23 you are most likely (mostly) out of the woods for full-blown schizophrenia, but you might want to be assessed for schizoaffective personality disorder or other psychological predispositions. There is a genetic component, and it seems to link all the major personality disorders in some way, but it isn't well understood.

I've never understood what being diagnosed would accomplish.
I'm afraid its just a disability label that will stick on my record forever.
It seems like it would be a disadvantage somehow. I don't want meds or anything like that.

(Would explain further, but I've already waisted enough of yalls time talking about myself for one sitting.
I'll lurk and speak when spoken to for the rest of the day)

In denial of your own insanity, you say?

You see:
Suppose I am not crazy, but instead am under the delusion of being crazy.
Wouldn't a delusion of insanity be insanity itself?

Suppose I am crazy and am completely correct. What symptoms do I have?
If none, then I am wrong and therefore crazy.
If I do have symptoms, then the insanity would make me unaware of them.
The symptoms/delusions would feel as real as a sane person's reality feels to them.

In this way I get to feel assured that I am self aware of my state of mind.

Suppose you fuck off and die, asshole.

You don't take jokes very well do you?

Well, no.  Not on certain subjects.

You may now begin sorting the peanuts out of my shit.  Thanks.

Did you swallow them whole?
(Plus, it may bio-degrade too much in the mail)
(I meant in a friendly kind of way, not a snide quip kind of way)

Look around, stop posting about yourself for a while, and give it another shot.

Will do.

For a little while, if I post, it wont be for my own amusement.
I have been reading around and respect you guys quite a bit.

"Playing at being mentally ill" is not an approach that goes over very well here, FYI.

Nigel, i promise that is a genuine story.
If you can help me think of a way of proving
it without revealing my identity or too much info, I will fully cooperate.
(The one about my family, not my stupid chatter)

Oh  , You're actually offended?

What gave it away, Sparky?  Do you perhaps spend time talking about the whimsical nature of being wheelchair bound as well?  Or perhaps how delightfully giddy chemotherapy must be?

Here's the deal:  After a short but intense bout with a brain virus several years ago, I have these little moments once or twice a year.  I get headachey, and my world turns into a Ben Templesmith art project.  When these episodes end, I find that there are one or two friends and/or family members that will never really ever speak to me again, because most people won't tolerate crazy in their personal lives, and with good reason.  And I'm not even a particularly BAD case.  A long-time friend of mine has basically ceased to exist due to BPD, and I miss her greatly.

So when some giddy asshole walks in spouting about how "insane" he is, singing paeans to the glories of personality erosion, JUST WHAT THE GIBBERING FUCK SORT OF REACTION DO YOU THINK I'M GOING TO HAVE?

You should maybe find some polio victims and jabber about the glories of an iron lung, maybe.

I promise to be more sensitive on such issues.
I feel really bad.