Wherein we discuss whatever Nigel and I happen to be learning at the moment in order to get a better grasp on it than anyone else in our respective classes. Come one come all, and feel free to tangent into other sciences as long as they relate to the bio du jour. My exam on Monday covers chapters 7, 8, 9, and 10.
Anyway, Nigel and I have the same textbook, excepting that mine is a Bunker Hill specific edition, so the chapters and pacing should be relatively the same.
I also have finals in about 3 weeks.
Chapter 7: Membrane Structure and Funtion
Chapter 8: An Introduction to Metabolism\
Chapter 9: Cellular Respiration and Fermentation
Chapter 10: Photosynthesis
I've got nothing at this specific moment to discuss, since I'm Fridaying, but wanted to get the thread going. Expect more of these, as a kind of informal study-group, even if you don't happen to be studying it formally type thing.
I spent way more time on cellular respiration than the midterm warranted. :lol:
Today we did a lot of diffusion and osmosis in lab.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
I spent way more time on cellular respiration than the midterm warranted. :lol:
Today we did a lot of diffusion and osmosis in lab.
I'm a bit lost on photosynthesis because I was running on 3 hours of sleep and class was at 10 am. Funny thing my sleep deprivation was due to doing a shit load of biology work the night before and, well, I'm sure you're well aware of the effects of late night studying. I was at risk a few times of falling over backwards. When Professor Kasili called break for the class, I immediately took my glasses off and put my head on my notebook for about 5 minutes. When I picked myself up to throw out my coffee cup I noticed he put a piece of paper next to me and when I went to throw out the cup, he was like, "are you awake, Kevin?" and I responded "ah, I didn't sleep well last night." He was smiling a bit, so I think he was more on the amused side than the offended.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
I spent way more time on cellular respiration than the midterm warranted. :lol:
Today we did a lot of diffusion and osmosis in lab.
I'm a bit lost on photosynthesis because I was running on 3 hours of sleep and class was at 10 am. Funny thing my sleep deprivation was due to doing a shit load of biology work the night before and, well, I'm sure you're well aware of the effects of late night studying. I was at risk a few times of falling over backwards. When Professor Kasili called break for the class, I immediately took my glasses off and put my head on my notebook for about 5 minutes. When I picked myself up to throw out my coffee cup I noticed he put a piece of paper next to me and when I went to throw out the cup, he was like, "are you awake, Kevin?" and I responded "ah, I didn't sleep well last night." He was smiling a bit, so I think he was more on the amused side than the offended.
Where are you in photosynthesis? We just started that last lecture, we got to Calvin cycles.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 07:42:10 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 04:23:33 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
I spent way more time on cellular respiration than the midterm warranted. :lol:
Today we did a lot of diffusion and osmosis in lab.
I'm a bit lost on photosynthesis because I was running on 3 hours of sleep and class was at 10 am. Funny thing my sleep deprivation was due to doing a shit load of biology work the night before and, well, I'm sure you're well aware of the effects of late night studying. I was at risk a few times of falling over backwards. When Professor Kasili called break for the class, I immediately took my glasses off and put my head on my notebook for about 5 minutes. When I picked myself up to throw out my coffee cup I noticed he put a piece of paper next to me and when I went to throw out the cup, he was like, "are you awake, Kevin?" and I responded "ah, I didn't sleep well last night." He was smiling a bit, so I think he was more on the amused side than the offended.
Where are you in photosynthesis? We just started that last lecture, we got to Calvin cycles.
We did the whole thing in one lecture. We started photosynthesis at 10 am on Thursday and ended at 12:30ish on Thursday. We have no more labs, so labs are more lecture now.
Membranes.
Membranes are about 5 nanometer, that is about 50 atoms, thick. They are made of certain lipid molecules.
These membrane lipid molecules consist of 2 parts, one part is polar. This part likes to hang out with water because water is also polar and it is always nice to be around people you can really connect with, you know.
The other part of these lipids is not polar at all. In fact, it is so apolar that it is always excluded by water and it's polar friends. You would think this makes the apolar molecules sad, but they are totally unaware of being rejected. It almost seems as if they prefer their own kind as well but that is an illusion. This illusion is created because all the apolar molecules constantly get pushed out of all the polar groups they encounter untill they bump into another apolar molecule. Finally they have found someone who doesn't push them away. As long as there is this excluding pressure from polar molecules around them, they stick together. Not because they are connected but because they have nothing better to do.
All this has the nice effect of automatically creating a double layer of lipid molecules, with their apolar bits pushed together. Maybe you would think that this would just create lipid balls and that would be that. But what happens if more lipids get jammed into one of those balls? Soon it would lengthen into a bilayered sheet. Still not a bubble, right? Now imagine one lost little water molecule getting himself stuck in the middle of these lipids. Oh the horror! he is all alone now, no polar friends to keep him company. But wait! here come the lipids to the rescue! the lipids, seeing the suffering of the the poor innocent water molecule flip around so their polar heads are now offering much needed social contact to the water. A bubble is born.
A cell, having a membrane can now do some cool things.
It can now maintain a difference in concentration of all kinds of handy or annoying molecules. As long as those molecules are polar.
As you can imagine, this opens up many possibilities. If the cell wants to keep apolar molecules in it will need to make them polar first, otherwise they will just get stuck in the membrane with only the lipids for company.
Legend has it that one of the first cells realised it needed a way of changing the inner concentration of stuff, instead of just maintaining it. So it looked in its membrane and found some weird molecules there. 'These are not lipids!' she exclaimed, yet they can stay inside the lipid bilayer. How could this be? Upon closer examination the cell noticed that the part of these molecules that spent all it's time in the bilayer were apolar! 'So that is how it works!' This, she could use. With a bit of poking and prodding the molecules were shaped into pumps and more complicated devices. 'I shall name them proteins! As prometheus gave fire to the humans allowing them all sorts of new possibilities these proteins allow me a similar increase in awesomeness!'
N.B. Is this sort of thing desired here?
Quote from: :regret: on November 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Membranes.
Membranes are about 5 nanometer, that is about 50 atoms, thick. They are made of certain lipid molecules.
These membrane lipid molecules consist of 2 parts, one part is polar. This part likes to hang out with water because water is also polar and it is always nice to be around people you can really connect with, you know.
The other part of these lipids is not polar at all. In fact, it is so apolar that it is always excluded by water and it's polar friends. You would think this makes the apolar molecules sad, but they are totally unaware of being rejected. It almost seems as if they prefer their own kind as well but that is an illusion. This illusion is created because all the apolar molecules constantly get pushed out of all the polar groups they encounter untill they bump into another apolar molecule. Finally they have found someone who doesn't push them away. As long as there is this excluding pressure from polar molecules around them, they stick together. Not because they are connected but because they have nothing better to do.
All this has the nice effect of automatically creating a double layer of lipid molecules, with their apolar bits pushed together. Maybe you would think that this would just create lipid balls and that would be that. But what happens if more lipids get jammed into one of those balls? Soon it would lengthen into a bilayered sheet. Still not a bubble, right? Now imagine one lost little water molecule getting himself stuck in the middle of these lipids. Oh the horror! he is all alone now, no polar friends to keep him company. But wait! here come the lipids to the rescue! the lipids, seeing the suffering of the the poor innocent water molecule flip around so their polar heads are now offering much needed social contact to the water. A bubble is born.
A cell, having a membrane can now do some cool things.
It can now maintain a difference in concentration of all kinds of handy or annoying molecules. As long as those molecules are polar.
As you can imagine, this opens up many possibilities. If the cell wants to keep apolar molecules in it will need to make them polar first, otherwise they will just get stuck in the membrane with only the lipids for company.
Legend has it that one of the first cells realised it needed a way of changing the inner concentration of stuff, instead of just maintaining it. So it looked in its membrane and found some weird molecules there. 'These are not lipids!' she exclaimed, yet they can stay inside the lipid bilayer. How could this be? Upon closer examination the cell noticed that the part of these molecules that spent all it's time in the bilayer were apolar! 'So that is how it works!' This, she could use. With a bit of poking and prodding the molecules were shaped into pumps and more complicated devices. 'I shall name them proteins! As prometheus gave fire to the humans allowing them all sorts of new possibilities these proteins allow me a similar increase in awesomeness!'
N.B. Is this sort of thing desired here?
This isn't particularly helpful for me because we are expected to have taken at least basic chemistry and understand about polarity before taking biology, so we started with atoms and worked our way through important molecular structures; in my class we're expected to have a pretty deep understanding of the composition and function of phospholipids and various types and functions of transport proteins.
Buuut I won't speak for Twid, as this sort of informal writing might be effective for his style of learning.
Twid, does your book come with the online stuff and the videos? I find them pretty helpful. I am getting the impression that your book has a different chapter layout than mine.
Regret, I do think it's pretty entertaining the way you anthropomorphize the molecules, though.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:40:12 PM
Regret, I do think it's pretty entertaining the way you anthropomorphize the molecules, though.
Thanks :)
I'll see if i can keep it up when i go deeper with it.
Twid, have you seen the Crash Course videos? They're really fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPKvHrD1eS4
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Twid, does your book come with the online stuff and the videos? I find them pretty helpful. I am getting the impression that your book has a different chapter layout than mine.
Yeah, there's a web component to the class. Our homework assignments are up there as are quizzes. It's possible that the layout is a different. We're expected to understand the chemistry involved, but it's not expected that we;ve taken chemistry. The basic chemistry behind it gets covered in class. It can be a bit daunting at times though.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:57:27 PM
Twid, have you seen the Crash Course videos? They're really fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPKvHrD1eS4
Ooh nice, thanks!
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:36:28 PM
Quote from: :regret: on November 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Membranes.
Membranes are about 5 nanometer, that is about 50 atoms, thick. They are made of certain lipid molecules.
These membrane lipid molecules consist of 2 parts, one part is polar. This part likes to hang out with water because water is also polar and it is always nice to be around people you can really connect with, you know.
The other part of these lipids is not polar at all. In fact, it is so apolar that it is always excluded by water and it's polar friends. You would think this makes the apolar molecules sad, but they are totally unaware of being rejected. It almost seems as if they prefer their own kind as well but that is an illusion. This illusion is created because all the apolar molecules constantly get pushed out of all the polar groups they encounter untill they bump into another apolar molecule. Finally they have found someone who doesn't push them away. As long as there is this excluding pressure from polar molecules around them, they stick together. Not because they are connected but because they have nothing better to do.
All this has the nice effect of automatically creating a double layer of lipid molecules, with their apolar bits pushed together. Maybe you would think that this would just create lipid balls and that would be that. But what happens if more lipids get jammed into one of those balls? Soon it would lengthen into a bilayered sheet. Still not a bubble, right? Now imagine one lost little water molecule getting himself stuck in the middle of these lipids. Oh the horror! he is all alone now, no polar friends to keep him company. But wait! here come the lipids to the rescue! the lipids, seeing the suffering of the the poor innocent water molecule flip around so their polar heads are now offering much needed social contact to the water. A bubble is born.
A cell, having a membrane can now do some cool things.
It can now maintain a difference in concentration of all kinds of handy or annoying molecules. As long as those molecules are polar.
As you can imagine, this opens up many possibilities. If the cell wants to keep apolar molecules in it will need to make them polar first, otherwise they will just get stuck in the membrane with only the lipids for company.
Legend has it that one of the first cells realised it needed a way of changing the inner concentration of stuff, instead of just maintaining it. So it looked in its membrane and found some weird molecules there. 'These are not lipids!' she exclaimed, yet they can stay inside the lipid bilayer. How could this be? Upon closer examination the cell noticed that the part of these molecules that spent all it's time in the bilayer were apolar! 'So that is how it works!' This, she could use. With a bit of poking and prodding the molecules were shaped into pumps and more complicated devices. 'I shall name them proteins! As prometheus gave fire to the humans allowing them all sorts of new possibilities these proteins allow me a similar increase in awesomeness!'
N.B. Is this sort of thing desired here?
This isn't particularly helpful for me because we are expected to have taken at least basic chemistry and understand about polarity before taking biology, so we started with atoms and worked our way through important molecular structures; in my class we're expected to have a pretty deep understanding of the composition and function of phospholipids and various types and functions of transport proteins.
Buuut I won't speak for Twid, as this sort of informal writing might be effective for his style of learning.
I like teh style, especially the anthropomorphizing.
Actually my professor does it a bit too. He says this guy and these guys here, and what is this guy doing
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Twid, does your book come with the online stuff and the videos? I find them pretty helpful. I am getting the impression that your book has a different chapter layout than mine.
Yeah, there's a web component to the class. Our homework assignments are up there as are quizzes. It's possible that the layout is a different. We're expected to understand the chemistry involved, but it's not expected that we;ve taken chemistry. The basic chemistry behind it gets covered in class. It can be a bit daunting at times though.
It sounds like they did photosynthesis before cell membranes, which made me wonder whether the chapters are in a different order; for us, membranes were chapter 7 and photosynthesis is chapter 10.
They wouldn't let me take the class until I took chemistry. Like, at all. I asked.
We don't use the web component too much, but I do kind of find the cheesy videos helpful, especially when I follow them up with the Crash Course videos.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 10:03:59 PM
I like teh style, especially the anthropomorphizing.
Actually my professor does it a bit too. He says this guy and these guys here, and what is this guy doing
Mine does this rad, crazy interpretive dance. It's amazing.
Hahaha I see that you put the chapters in the first post. I immediately forgot about it. That's the same chapter order, never mind!
Oh BTW if your exam is at all similar to mine, you'll want to memorize which cell structures are unique to animal or plant cells, which are shared, and which are not present in prokaryotic cells. Just about everyone in the class got dinged on that. We didn't spend much time on prokaryotic cells and kind of skimmed over the differences between plant and animal cells.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:28:23 AM
Oh BTW if your exam is at all similar to mine, you'll want to memorize which cell structures are unique to animal or plant cells, which are shared, and which are not present in prokaryotic cells. Just about everyone in the class got dinged on that. We didn't spend much time on prokaryotic cells and kind of skimmed over the differences between plant and animal cells.
1st .ed & bio.w 1's / 4:45:55 pm
2nd 9:35 - Calvin cycles. v cosmic ray impulses -
http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/conn.river/calvin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-independent_reactions
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/biology/calvin.html
http://www.kelvincycles.co.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray
http://helios.gsfc.nasa.gov/cosmic.html
http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel/dick/cos_encyc.html
9:50 pm pSt dT=<15 delay to post
Quote from: hirley0 on November 24, 2013, 12:44:05 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:28:23 AM
Oh BTW if y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-independent_reactions
Y not lime green {#32CD32
THIRTY TWO CD'S of 32's
Makes me want to giggle / /\/ow this | tbc v
http://translate.google.com/#en/vi/
T" BA MƯƠI HAI CD'S của 32 "T 4:15
so sure i do wonder / Just how long / the cosmic }
MACRO quest // will delay the Micro Tails
There sure aRe a lot of fillers & Trailers || cycle of 15's || no e in .vi {hmm:
Regret: I was reading the story and it primed the biology pump of understanding in my noodle. There were two related points I wanted to remember. When you guys say "apolar", is that the same as "dipole"? Like polar has the strong electron scavenging bond, while the dipole bond is more the clumpy kind based on the "moments" gathered by molecular arrangement and the resultant bias of fields? My confusion seems to stem from the characterization of lipids as being (also) polar. Their function as cell membranes is more complicated than just the parts themselves would have lead me to believe.
Quote from: LuciferX on November 24, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
Regret: I was reading the story and it primed the biology pump of understanding in my noodle. There were two related points I wanted to remember. When you guys say "apolar", is that the same as "dipole"? Like polar has the strong electron scavenging bond, while the dipole bond is more the clumpy kind based on the "moments" gathered by molecular arrangement and the resultant bias of fields? My confusion seems to stem from the characterization of lipids as being (also) polar. Their function as cell membranes is more complicated than just the parts themselves would have lead me to believe.
Quote from: :regret: on November 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Membrain's.
they are totally unaware of being rejected.
they prefer their own k
nothing better
A bubble is born.
As long as molecules
'These are not lipids!' she exclaimed,
This, she could use. With a bit of poking
'I shall name them proteins! As prometheus ga
N.B. Is this sort of thing desired here?
don't agree with the "ejected." Line
other than this? pretty much agree with 'ER & hym2
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:18:46 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Twid, does your book come with the online stuff and the videos? I find them pretty helpful. I am getting the impression that your book has a different chapter layout than mine.
Yeah, there's a web component to the class. Our homework assignments are up there as are quizzes. It's possible that the layout is a different. We're expected to understand the chemistry involved, but it's not expected that we;ve taken chemistry. The basic chemistry behind it gets covered in class. It can be a bit daunting at times though.
It sounds like they did photosynthesis before cell membranes, which made me wonder whether the chapters are in a different order; for us, membranes were chapter 7 and photosynthesis is chapter 10.
They wouldn't let me take the class until I took chemistry. Like, at all. I asked.
We don't use the web component too much, but I do kind of find the cheesy videos helpful, especially when I follow them up with the Crash Course videos.
Oh no, we did cell membranes already too. The numbering is the same for us. We're on chapter 10.
I kinda like that the homework is a web component, because it will tell me I'm wrong immediately and give me a couple of more chances to get it right. Often it's because I for some reason refused to watch one of the animations, or I didn't read the question or answers carefully enough.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:28:23 AM
Oh BTW if your exam is at all similar to mine, you'll want to memorize which cell structures are unique to animal or plant cells, which are shared, and which are not present in prokaryotic cells. Just about everyone in the class got dinged on that. We didn't spend much time on prokaryotic cells and kind of skimmed over the differences between plant and animal cells.
Oh god, I hope so. Those ones are already pretty obvious to me. The parts that I'm getting screwed up on are the individual steps on cellular respiration and photosynthesis, and what chemicals they produce. It's easy to say that cellular respiration is breaking down glucose with oxygen to create energy, heat, water and carbon dioxide and photosynthesis is light, carbon dioxide and water interacting to create glucose and oxygen. It's not so easy to describe the 20 some odd steps in between beginning and end.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 25, 2013, 02:44:21 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:18:46 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 23, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 23, 2013, 05:37:48 PM
Twid, does your book come with the online stuff and the videos? I find them pretty helpful. I am getting the impression that your book has a different chapter layout than mine.
Yeah, there's a web component to the class. Our homework assignments are up there as are quizzes. It's possible that the layout is a different. We're expected to understand the chemistry involved, but it's not expected that we;ve taken chemistry. The basic chemistry behind it gets covered in class. It can be a bit daunting at times though.
It sounds like they did photosynthesis before cell membranes, which made me wonder whether the chapters are in a different order; for us, membranes were chapter 7 and photosynthesis is chapter 10.
They wouldn't let me take the class until I took chemistry. Like, at all. I asked.
We don't use the web component too much, but I do kind of find the cheesy videos helpful, especially when I follow them up with the Crash Course videos.
Oh no, we did cell membranes already too. The numbering is the same for us. We're on chapter 10.
I kinda like that the homework is a web component, because it will tell me I'm wrong immediately and give me a couple of more chances to get it right. Often it's because I for some reason refused to watch one of the animations, or I didn't read the question or answers carefully enough.
We are not using the online homework at all, and I wish we were. I can go in and look at shit but we don't have assignments.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 25, 2013, 02:47:52 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:28:23 AM
Oh BTW if your exam is at all similar to mine, you'll want to memorize which cell structures are unique to animal or plant cells, which are shared, and which are not present in prokaryotic cells. Just about everyone in the class got dinged on that. We didn't spend much time on prokaryotic cells and kind of skimmed over the differences between plant and animal cells.
Oh god, I hope so. Those ones are already pretty obvious to me. The parts that I'm getting screwed up on are the individual steps on cellular respiration and photosynthesis, and what chemicals they produce. It's easy to say that cellular respiration is breaking down glucose with oxygen to create energy, heat, water and carbon dioxide and photosynthesis is light, carbon dioxide and water interacting to create glucose and oxygen. It's not so easy to describe the 20 some odd steps in between beginning and end.
Well, if yours is anything like mine... unfortunately there's no real way of knowing how similar they'll be... all you'll really have to be able to do is answer specific questions about the steps, not reproduce them from memory. Basically, what we had boiled down to being able to read a diagram and recognize reduction and the other various steps in the process, like where inorganic phosphates are used and where ATP is used.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 25, 2013, 05:09:00 AM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 25, 2013, 02:47:52 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 24, 2013, 12:28:23 AM
Oh BTW if your exam is at all similar to mine, you'll want to memorize which cell structures are unique to animal or plant cells, which are shared, and which are not present in prokaryotic cells. Just about everyone in the class got dinged on that. We didn't spend much time on prokaryotic cells and kind of skimmed over the differences between plant and animal cells.
Oh god, I hope so. Those ones are already pretty obvious to me. The parts that I'm getting screwed up on are the individual steps on cellular respiration and photosynthesis, and what chemicals they produce. It's easy to say that cellular respiration is breaking down glucose with oxygen to create energy, heat, water and carbon dioxide and photosynthesis is light, carbon dioxide and water interacting to create glucose and oxygen. It's not so easy to describe the 20 some odd steps in between beginning and end.
Well, if yours is anything like mine... unfortunately there's no real way of knowing how similar they'll be... all you'll really have to be able to do is answer specific questions about the steps, not reproduce them from memory. Basically, what we had boiled down to being able to read a diagram and recognize reduction and the other various steps in the process, like where inorganic phosphates are used and where ATP is used.
Ok. So.
We have PS II, which are light reactions, and we have PS I which are light independent reaction.
Ugh. Ok.
Light reactions create NADP+ (I'm wrong, aren't I?) and... no, it's NADPH because it's an anabolic process and.... shit.
It goes light reactions, and then Calvin cycle. That much I have, much in the same way that with cellular respiration it goes glycolysis>pyruvate>acetyl CoA>citric acid cycle>oxidative phosphorylation, which yields approximately 32 or 34 ATP.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 25, 2013, 05:22:13 AM
It goes light reactions, and then Calvin cycle. That much I have, much in the same way that with cellular respiration it goes glycolysis>pyruvate>acetyl CoA>citric acid cycle>oxidative phosphorylation, which yields approximately 32 or 34 ATP.
The number is dependent on whether a side reaction gives an NADH or an FADH
2. NADH can provide 3 electrons, and FADH
2 provides 2, and is a less efficient electron carrier.
Quote from: LuciferX on November 24, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
Regret: I was reading the story and it primed the biology pump of understanding in my noodle. There were two related points I wanted to remember. When you guys say "apolar", is that the same as "dipole"? Like polar has the strong electron scavenging bond, while the dipole bond is more the clumpy kind based on the "moments" gathered by molecular arrangement and the resultant bias of fields? My confusion seems to stem from the characterization of lipids as being (also) polar. Their function as cell membranes is more complicated than just the parts themselves would have lead me to believe.
apolar has no poles, it is electrically and magnetically inert. Throw it in a strong magnetic field and it is like, whatever man. I got my own thing going here. Think of plastics, oil, glass. lipids seem weird because they have an apolar bit and a polar bit, the polar bit can be dipolar or tripolar or some other configuration. The reason they can exist like this is because they are quite a lot bigger than regular polar molecules.
Imagine a stick with a knob on its end. the stick is apolar and the knob is polar, so if you get thousands of these sticks the knobs will interact with eachother. parts of each knob will reject the same parts on the surrounding knobs, but will attract the other parts (with the other polarity) of the knobs. like magnets they will fit together. The apolar sticks don't really care either way, but if two knobby bits are trying to get together then the sticks will just passively be pushed aside.eventually this will result in all the sticks being stuck together, roughly parallel to each other so the knobs can hug as much as they want.
I hope i have made it a bit more clear.
Quote from: :regret: on December 02, 2013, 12:11:13 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on November 24, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
Regret: I was reading the story and it primed the biology pump of understanding in my noodle. There were two related points I wanted to remember. When you guys say "apolar", is that the same as "dipole"? Like polar has the strong electron scavenging bond, while the dipole bond is more the clumpy kind based on the "moments" gathered by molecular arrangement and the resultant bias of fields? My confusion seems to stem from the characterization of lipids as being (also) polar. Their function as cell membranes is more complicated than just the parts themselves would have lead me to believe.
apolar has no poles, it is electrically and magnetically inert. Throw it in a strong magnetic field and it is like, whatever man. I got my own thing going here. Think of plastics, oil, glass. lipids seem weird because they have an apolar bit and a polar bit, the polar bit can be dipolar or tripolar or some other configuration. The reason they can exist like this is because they are quite a lot bigger than regular polar molecules.
Imagine a stick with a knob on its end. the stick is apolar and the knob is polar, so if you get thousands of these sticks the knobs will interact with eachother. parts of each knob will reject the same parts on the surrounding knobs, but will attract the other parts (with the other polarity) of the knobs. like magnets they will fit together. The apolar sticks don't really care either way, but if two knobby bits are trying to get together then the sticks will just passively be pushed aside.eventually this will result in all the sticks being stuck together, roughly parallel to each other so the knobs can hug as much as they want.
I hope i have made it a bit more clear.
So, apolar molecules move and act together like you said, and polar bonds are instead "covalent"?
Someone respond to this so I remember to read what Ferx and Regret said when I'm sober.
Twid,
Now knows better than to drink with housemate on weeknight, since it ends in a lot of youtube, and, strangely, Irish comedians I've never heard of by his suggestion (he's from Panama)
Also, I totally forgot to do my laundry, but I bought soap for the shower tomorrow goddammit.
Twid,
Won't be stinky, can't speak for clothes
Quote from: :regret: on November 23, 2013, 04:03:45 PM
Membranes.
Membranes are about 5 nanometer, that is about 50 atoms, thick. They are made of certain lipid molecules.
These membrane lipid molecules consist of 2 parts, one part is polar. This part likes to hang out with water because water is also polar and it is always nice to be around people you can really connect with, you know.
The other part of these lipids is not polar at all. In fact, it is so apolar that it is always excluded by water and it's polar friends. You would think this makes the apolar molecules sad, but they are totally unaware of being rejected. It almost seems as if they prefer their own kind as well but that is an illusion. This illusion is created because all the apolar molecules constantly get pushed out of all the polar groups they encounter untill they bump into another apolar molecule. Finally they have found someone who doesn't push them away. As long as there is this excluding pressure from polar molecules around them, they stick together. Not because they are connected but because they have nothing better to do.
All this has the nice effect of automatically creating a double layer of lipid molecules, with their apolar bits pushed together. Maybe you would think that this would just create lipid balls and that would be that. But what happens if more lipids get jammed into one of those balls? Soon it would lengthen into a bilayered sheet. Still not a bubble, right? Now imagine one lost little water molecule getting himself stuck in the middle of these lipids. Oh the horror! he is all alone now, no polar friends to keep him company. But wait! here come the lipids to the rescue! the lipids, seeing the suffering of the the poor innocent water molecule flip around so their polar heads are now offering much needed social contact to the water. A bubble is born.
A cell, having a membrane can now do some cool things.
It can now maintain a difference in concentration of all kinds of handy or annoying molecules. As long as those molecules are polar.
As you can imagine, this opens up many possibilities. If the cell wants to keep apolar molecules in it will need to make them polar first, otherwise they will just get stuck in the membrane with only the lipids for company.
Legend has it that one of the first cells realised it needed a way of changing the inner concentration of stuff, instead of just maintaining it. So it looked in its membrane and found some weird molecules there. 'These are not lipids!' she exclaimed, yet they can stay inside the lipid bilayer. How could this be? Upon closer examination the cell noticed that the part of these molecules that spent all it's time in the bilayer were apolar! 'So that is how it works!' This, she could use. With a bit of poking and prodding the molecules were shaped into pumps and more complicated devices. 'I shall name them proteins! As prometheus gave fire to the humans allowing them all sorts of new possibilities these proteins allow me a similar increase in awesomeness!'
N.B. Is this sort of thing desired here?
This should be an animated cartoon. :)
Oh hey, this thread!
This term we're mostly covering inheritance and phylogenics.
I'm so tired of plants. Already. I wish we were at least working with drosophila.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 12, 2014, 09:06:50 PM
Oh hey, this thread!
This term we're mostly covering inheritance and phylogenics.
I'm so tired of plants. Already. I wish we were at least working with drosophila.
...Sympathies, I only got one chapter of that.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on January 12, 2014, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 12, 2014, 09:06:50 PM
Oh hey, this thread!
This term we're mostly covering inheritance and phylogenics.
I'm so tired of plants. Already. I wish we were at least working with drosophila.
...Sympathies, I only got one chapter of that.
Oh, I love inheritance. I don't even mind phylogenics. That's why I'm a biology major.
But I do not give a single fuck about plants.
I start in a week. I picked up my bio text, which is basically just the second half of the previous one. Looks like we'll be starting of with genetics too.
So it looks like this semester is going to be both hard, since it's 3/4ths science and 1/4 math (and a good test run to see how well I do as a full time science student), and also really fucking fun and interesting.
Aside from obviously, in Microbiology experimenting with bacteria and pathogens, in Gen bio two, we're going to have an 8 week long fruit fly breeding experiment to study mutant traits, perform microsurgery on their larvae, and separate DNA fragments.
Um. Fuck yeah.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 01:43:49 AM
So it looks like this semester is going to be both hard, since it's 3/4ths science and 1/4 math (and a good test run to see how well I do as a full time science student), and also really fucking fun and interesting.
Aside from obviously, in Microbiology experimenting with bacteria and pathogens, in Gen bio two, we're going to have an 8 week long fruit fly breeding experiment to study mutant traits, perform microsurgery on their larvae, and separate DNA fragments.
Um. Fuck yeah.
You bastard. You get the Drosophila lab module. We got the Brassica Rapa module. You know what's boring? Fast plants. That's what.
:(
I wanted to do the fruit flies.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 03:28:43 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 01:43:49 AM
So it looks like this semester is going to be both hard, since it's 3/4ths science and 1/4 math (and a good test run to see how well I do as a full time science student), and also really fucking fun and interesting.
Aside from obviously, in Microbiology experimenting with bacteria and pathogens, in Gen bio two, we're going to have an 8 week long fruit fly breeding experiment to study mutant traits, perform microsurgery on their larvae, and separate DNA fragments.
Um. Fuck yeah.
You bastard. You get the Drosophila lab module. We got the Brassica Rapa module. You know what's boring? Fast plants. That's what.
:(
I wanted to do the fruit flies.
:asshat:
I'm chuffed nevertheless
I'm actually pretty pleased because even though the Microbiology class won't transfer, Micro, Gen Bio II, and (I'm assuming, will find out Saturday) Biotech are entirely complementary and (I kinda want to punch myself for using this word) synergistic.
Also, nevertheless, let's both post our experiments/lab reports.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 03:50:05 AM
Also, nevertheless, let's both post our experiments/lab reports.
It's a deal!
My fast plants lab report is going to kind of suck because the bright green seedlings died. I mean, fuck this.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 04:50:28 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 03:50:05 AM
Also, nevertheless, let's both post our experiments/lab reports.
It's a deal!
My fast plants lab report is going to kind of suck because the bright green seedlings died. I mean, fuck this.
My semester started Tuesday plus storm.
I know 3/4ths of my syllabi :lulz:
You're already ahead of me.
So you're working with Brassica, which, we both know that we both know is broccoli/cabbage, but I'm going to look up that specific species. I don't know B. raba.
I kind of hate how fast quarters move. I mean, it's readysetGOGOGOGOGO oh god OK take three weeks off.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 05:06:30 AM
So you're working with Brassica, which, we both know that we both know is broccoli/cabbage, but I'm going to look up that specific species. I don't know B. raba.
Turnip.
Nigel, stop blowing my mind.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 05:09:36 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 05:06:30 AM
So you're working with Brassica, which, we both know that we both know is broccoli/cabbage, but I'm going to look up that specific species. I don't know B. raba.
Turnip.
Nigel, stop blowing my mind.
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
I kind of hate how fast quarters move. I mean, it's readysetGOGOGOGOGO oh god OK take three weeks off.
I actually appreciated the whole month I had off.
I probably would have lost my mind.
And Villager and I went on vacation last weekend on the understanding that it was, "oh god, this science thing is happening, isn't it? And I'm not going to be very free for a while!" Which is even weirder because we both already work in science as grunts (Villager has a bachelor's in history, but is working as an admin/research assistant in sleep medicine NEXT DOOR TO MY PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT) and well, my gig, but going, heh). Yeah, I want to be a scientist and never a history teacher. And oddly, I'm gunning for the science, but Villager is not, as a scientist, even though she is a published scientific author (you may ask me for her name to read her articles, if you are a well established PDer).
So I am seriously considering taking geology for my 12 elective science credits. Just because I fucking love rocks. I'm supposed to take something that supports my area of interest, which would realistically be biochemistry, but I feel so fucking fried out on the micro shit already. I want to take geology.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 05:18:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
I kind of hate how fast quarters move. I mean, it's readysetGOGOGOGOGO oh god OK take three weeks off.
I actually appreciated the whole month I had off.
I probably would have lost my mind.
And Villager and I went on vacation last weekend on the understanding that it was, "oh god, this science thing is happening, isn't it? And I'm not going to be very free for a while!" Which is even weirder because we both already work in science as grunts (Villager has a bachelor's in history, but is working as an admin/research assistant in sleep medicine NEXT DOOR TO MY PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT) and well, my gig, but going, heh). Yeah, I want to be a scientist and never a history teacher. And oddly, I'm gunning for the science, but Villager is not, as a scientist, even though she is a published scientific author (you may ask me for her name to read her articles, if you are a well established PDer).
I'd be interested in looking at her research, I love sleep disorders!
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 05:21:08 AM
So I am seriously considering taking geology for my 12 elective science credits. Just because I fucking love rocks. I'm supposed to take something that supports my area of interest, which would realistically be biochemistry, but I feel so fucking fried out on the micro shit already. I want to take geology.
I finished up my science requirements in History with Astronomy, knowing full well that I was transferring to Biology. I loved that class. Given my druthers I would actually be an astrophysicist. But a combination of job opportunities in New England skewing towards biology, lack of good seeing in the city and the fact that biology is just as interesting and a better career choice...
It's kinda like the rock star thing. I dunno. My interest in science has always been, well, stellar.
But life is just as enthralling, and more challenging.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 05:22:22 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 05:18:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 24, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
I kind of hate how fast quarters move. I mean, it's readysetGOGOGOGOGO oh god OK take three weeks off.
I actually appreciated the whole month I had off.
I probably would have lost my mind.
And Villager and I went on vacation last weekend on the understanding that it was, "oh god, this science thing is happening, isn't it? And I'm not going to be very free for a while!" Which is even weirder because we both already work in science as grunts (Villager has a bachelor's in history, but is working as an admin/research assistant in sleep medicine NEXT DOOR TO MY PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT) and well, my gig, but going, heh). Yeah, I want to be a scientist and never a history teacher. And oddly, I'm gunning for the science, but Villager is not, as a scientist, even though she is a published scientific author (you may ask me for her name to read her articles, if you are a well established PDer).
I'd be interested in looking at her research, I love sleep disorders!
Will go to google scholar, brb
One thing that I will take comfort in:
My Last Name as a scientist will signal me out immediately. Apparently Villager's last name is more scientifically attested than I expected.
Made more difficult by the fact that there is a published scientist with Villager first initial middle initial last name that was published before I was born. And I'm 3 years older than her.
Bam. Got it. PI is a good thing to throw in. 3 articles incoming.
Awesome, thanks!
Ok, so we got Drosophilae messed up on ether, examined their sexual dimorphism and put them in an incubator for breeding purposes. Well we were supposed to brush in 8 to 10 breeding pairs. But sometimes it doesn't work like that. I had like 6 males and a bunch of females, and a few had died and were at the bottom of the nutrient medium. And of course, because this was my first time doping fruitflies I accidentally killed a few, which percentage wise worked out to be a good chunk of the males.
At least 3 males survived. I expect larvae on Tuesday.
This was a dry run, with only F1 Wild Type, for practice. Two fruitflies revived and flew off. Meh. Some of them were reviving after I transferred to the breeding vial so I put them in the morgue vial (which to the casual observer is exactly what it sounds like. It's a vial full of dead fruitflies and ethanol).
Also ether smells horrible, like 117.3 sharpies opened at once in an enclosed area.
Also I spilled ether on my left glove. Not a big deal but the smell did get pretty damn intense.
Aw I am remembering huffing ether with Bijijoo and a sack of red wine and a scanner and a lot of porn and some pencils.
Man, those were the days!
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 31, 2014, 07:19:19 AM
Aw I am remembering huffing ether with Bijijoo and a sack of red wine and a scanner and a lot of porn and some pencils.
Man, those were the days!
You know, this was my first time smelling ether.
Based on initial reaction, I don't see how we got to the point of "yeah, this is worth huffing."
My first reaction was, "that's a weird smell" followed by "dear god what the fuck is that smell?!" followed by "oh it must be ether" followed by "fuck! I got ether on my nitrile glove! Uh... it smells. Oh good, it's evaporating quickly, I don't have to mop it up."
I gotta ask though, what's it like?
Not going to do it obviously, just curious.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 31, 2014, 07:45:49 AM
I gotta ask though, what's it like?
Not going to do it obviously, just curious.
It makes you dizzy, and then gives you a headache afterwards.
It's a lot like getting drunk, but worse for your brain.
It also makes your mouth taste funny. It's sort of like a cross between nitrous oxide and drinking three shots of vodka in a row.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXGVDnPU9o
:lulz:
It is exactly like that, only without the smoking, unless you're really into being on fire.
The best time was the time that we spent all night drawing pornographic images of women with animal heads and animals with woman heads, and the next day he returned the scanner because it wasn't working, and left my picture of the cow-headed woman spreading beaver in it by accident. :lulz: Who knows whether anyone ever saw it, but it's fun to imagine.
:lulz:
So, uh... I get to take an extended view of a specimen that I trapped in an Erlenmeyer flask.
I'm not certain of the species, but I am DAMN sure of the genus and family.
The genus is Cimex.
Cimex.
Cimex.
Cimex on my pillow.
Cimex is actually a pretty interesting genus, now that I have a trapped specimen.
We really can't get rid of them, can we?
They actually do, have extraordinarily interesting behavior (resist genocide)
I want to kill it.
I want to know why it is still here.
Also I want to kill it.
I won't. My rage is tempered by curiosity.
AND WHY. ARE. THEY. STILL. HERE.
I want to kill it. Badly. It will never feed again. I need not. But goddamn. I want it to suffer.
Oh, shit.
Sorry to hear that.
Perhaps you're picking them up from somewhere else and bringing them home?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 28, 2014, 11:53:36 AM
Oh, shit.
Sorry to hear that.
Perhaps you're picking them up from somewhere else and bringing them home?
Perhaps.
Or, one of my roommates is.
Diatomaceous earth.
And kill your roomies.
I honestly think that's the only explanation. I was bedbug free for like, a year. And now they're back? The only other logical explanation is that I brought them to work, and they at some point commuted back with me.
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
Sleeping is difficult again. The every little leg hair thing, you know. Same spiel as before, let them bite me until they die from the walk. It's frustrating because it's like, you fuckers have been gone for a year, and I know you can't live that long without blood. Oh, time to shake the flask, incidentally.
Alive. Barely kicking. Literally. Energy saving mechanism?
I'm somewhat tempted to let my guest feed on me through a cloth bound to the flask with rubber bands and observe further, to see if it molts or something. I watched it poop, as well as do the tell the drummer there's a pizza in a corner of a round room trick. That gets old fast.
I'm also tempted to see how long a small amount of D Earth will kill it. For science. THat would actually be a useful baseline measurement.
But I also hate my guest.
I just finished writing my research proposal. Here's an excerpt:
QuoteWhile these modern fertilizers have long dominated both the mainstream agricultural market and the home horticulturalist's garden, and the ready availability of fish meal and composted manure is sufficient for most organic growers, there may be some value in knowing whether the application of raw fish into the planting hole may be as effective a fertilizer as modern methods. In the case of a zombie apocalypse, for example, herring may be extraordinarily plentiful in many regions, while commercial fertilizers may be obtainable only via looting home improvement centers, or may be unavailable altogether. Therefore, some understanding of the efficacy of using raw fish for fertilizing staple grain crops such as maize may become avantageous.
Some not-especially-lucid notes from today's refresher on the plant life cycle, transcribed from my notebook.
STUPID FLOWERS
*spore mother cell --> Meiosis --> Spore
Fuck plants.
Little bastard starts as a seed, grows into a sporophyte (plant) which pops out a flower which has microspore and megaspore mother cells. Microspore mother cells shit out microspores via meiosis, making the male gametophyte generation. Megaspore mother cells do meiosis in the ovary to produce megaspore ova, which these pollens land on (the stigma of the ovary) and mitose to make two sperm, and then it grows a long-ass tube which it sticks down the ovary to fertilize the ovum. The ovule has meiosed into four cells; one ovum, and three other stupid cells. At least one of them is a germ cell or some shit; maybe two of them. OK, all three of them, and it's called the endosperm. One of the sperm fertilizes the ovum, and the other one fertilizes some other shit that basically grows into a retarded twin for the embryo to cannibalize.
Plants are extortionist assholes who bribe other organisms to do all the hard work.
Monocots do some other shit with the endosperm.
:lulz:
:lulz:
Here's a bit from my notes on bacteria:
BSC [Biological Species Concept] is bullshit in these domains. Reproduce every 20 minutes.
Prokaryotes are hipsters [in reaction to the professor saying how prokaryotes invented all the stuff our cells do]
Most biology is microbial. Fucking hipsters everywhere.
Less than 1% pathogenic.
:lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
That's wise. VERY wise.
One of the bead ladies has shared that little video you posted earlier, and the other bead ladies are reacting with horror. The best part? The one who shared it knows perfectly well it's not real, but the ones reacting don't. :lol:
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
That's wise. VERY wise.
One of the bead ladies has shared that little video you posted earlier, and the other bead ladies are reacting with horror. The best part? The one who shared it knows perfectly well it's not real, but the ones reacting don't. :lol:
Which video?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:36:07 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
That's wise. VERY wise.
One of the bead ladies has shared that little video you posted earlier, and the other bead ladies are reacting with horror. The best part? The one who shared it knows perfectly well it's not real, but the ones reacting don't. :lol:
Which video?
The bedbug one.
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:51:20 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:36:07 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
That's wise. VERY wise.
One of the bead ladies has shared that little video you posted earlier, and the other bead ladies are reacting with horror. The best part? The one who shared it knows perfectly well it's not real, but the ones reacting don't. :lol:
Which video?
The bedbug one.
Derp. We can totally top this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 03:17:37 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:51:20 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:36:07 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 10, 2014, 02:33:15 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 02, 2014, 04:43:43 AM
Ugh, that's horrible, Twid!
I have a horror of the little bastards. It was actually difficult for me to stay in a motel when we went to the coast last week, I kept checking the mattress and the corners for signs.
After your horror story on the way to Tucson, the first thing I do at every hotel I go to is pull the mattress away from the wall and check it and the sheets for the little fuckers.
That's wise. VERY wise.
One of the bead ladies has shared that little video you posted earlier, and the other bead ladies are reacting with horror. The best part? The one who shared it knows perfectly well it's not real, but the ones reacting don't. :lol:
Which video?
The bedbug one.
Derp. We can totally top this.
Oh, absolutely. :lol:
Side note-
My observations of Drosophila traits matched up with my predictions: F2 generation would demonstrate equal distribution of eye color between both genders. There's a bit of a question if white eyed males have a mate selection advantage, though. But that's beyond what is expected of me.
I mentioned in brief in Open Bar an idea that I had- I did a preliminary look and it seems like novel research, and I'll give away that it entails a very tedious look at genomes. Not like I'm not used to tedious work anyway. But if it pans out, well, it's not an insignificant question. I'm going to do further research while I'm undergrad so that I either get a head start, or waste no time.
I am also, at this point, pretty sure that I want to either go into Biotech, or become a Microbiologist. Either way, it's germs, baby, germs!
Also, my guest died of natural causes (presumably) after a week. Which is also interesting, and leads me to think that it was a lonely survivor, especially because of my lack of insect bites.
Twid, I don't know where you are in physics but you might enjoy this. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html
There is also, of course, this classic paper: http://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf
And its accompanying powerpoint: ftp.kaist.ac.kr/chicken/chicken.ppt
My extent of physics is entirely in one astronomy class and I take Gen Physics I in fall, but, I'mma take a leap off this here diving board.
(Also, biologist is a compromise. I'd be an astrophysicist if it didn't involve me, literally, moving out to Tucson. I can be a well employed biologist in Boston.)
Quote from: Nigel on April 22, 2014, 06:49:06 AM
Twid, I don't know where you are in physics but you might enjoy this. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html
:lulz:
I've read it before. Still bloody brilliant.
Quote from: Nigel on April 22, 2014, 06:52:07 AM
There is also, of course, this classic paper: http://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf
And its accompanying powerpoint: ftp.kaist.ac.kr/chicken/chicken.ppt
Oh man. I can point out the flaws in this one.
For one thing it doesn't take into consideration the buffalo-bleu cheese affect, nor does it acknowlege the Parmigiana principle.
I think I needed that. Thanks, Nigel!
I am procrastinating and dreaming about lunch instead of what I should be doing, which is preparing for today's anatomy quiz and piglet dissection.
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:26:19 PM
I am procrastinating and dreaming about lunch instead of what I should be doing, which is preparing for today's anatomy quiz and piglet dissection.
Christ almighty. Thankfully, I haven't had to do any dissection on anything other than Drosophila. I did dissect a fetal pig in the Intro to Biology course I took years ago for my history major. I hated it. The smell was nasty, my lab partners were no help so I had to do all the incisions (I also had like 4 lab partners, suddenly, just for that lab), you can feel that bone through the scalpel. It's just a nasty creepy thing to do.
I took an exam on the largely unicellular groups of life, both prokaryotic and eukaryotic. I've come to decide that I quite like the term Artist Formerly Known As Protist.
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 25, 2014, 06:31:45 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:26:19 PM
I am procrastinating and dreaming about lunch instead of what I should be doing, which is preparing for today's anatomy quiz and piglet dissection.
Christ almighty. Thankfully, I haven't had to do any dissection on anything other than Drosophila. I did dissect a fetal pig in the Intro to Biology course I took years ago for my history major. I hated it. The smell was nasty, my lab partners were no help so I had to do all the incisions (I also had like 4 lab partners, suddenly, just for that lab), you can feel that bone through the scalpel. It's just a nasty creepy thing to do.
I took an exam on the largely unicellular groups of life, both prokaryotic and eukaryotic. I've come to decide that I quite like the term Artist Formerly Known As Protist.
We did single-celled organisms and plant reproduction last term, an overview of plant anatomy this term, and now we're diving headlong into an overview of animal anatomy and then skimming the basics of ecology for the rest of the term.
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 25, 2014, 06:31:45 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:26:19 PM
I am procrastinating and dreaming about lunch instead of what I should be doing, which is preparing for today's anatomy quiz and piglet dissection.
Christ almighty. Thankfully, I haven't had to do any dissection on anything other than Drosophila. I did dissect a fetal pig in the Intro to Biology course I took years ago for my history major. I hated it. The smell was nasty, my lab partners were no help so I had to do all the incisions (I also had like 4 lab partners, suddenly, just for that lab), you can feel that bone through the scalpel. It's just a nasty creepy thing to do.
I took an exam on the largely unicellular groups of life, both prokaryotic and eukaryotic. I've come to decide that I quite like the term Artist Formerly Known As Protist.
We did single-celled organisms and plant reproduction last term, an overview of plant anatomy this term, and now we're diving headlong into an overview of animal anatomy and then skimming the basics of ecology for the rest of the term.
Before we did the exam we went over plants. I thought about you, actually, because I was thought, "Fuck plants!" and kinda giggled to myself. It is pretty fascinating though, about plant diversity. Ginko is both a species and the only example of its phylum. Flowering plants make up, percentage wise, all the fucking plants. Pine trees. Cool. Conifers are made up of 600 species. Flowering plants, 250,000 species. What the shit.....
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 25, 2014, 06:46:38 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 25, 2014, 06:31:45 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 06:26:19 PM
I am procrastinating and dreaming about lunch instead of what I should be doing, which is preparing for today's anatomy quiz and piglet dissection.
Christ almighty. Thankfully, I haven't had to do any dissection on anything other than Drosophila. I did dissect a fetal pig in the Intro to Biology course I took years ago for my history major. I hated it. The smell was nasty, my lab partners were no help so I had to do all the incisions (I also had like 4 lab partners, suddenly, just for that lab), you can feel that bone through the scalpel. It's just a nasty creepy thing to do.
I took an exam on the largely unicellular groups of life, both prokaryotic and eukaryotic. I've come to decide that I quite like the term Artist Formerly Known As Protist.
We did single-celled organisms and plant reproduction last term, an overview of plant anatomy this term, and now we're diving headlong into an overview of animal anatomy and then skimming the basics of ecology for the rest of the term.
Before we did the exam we went over plants. I thought about you, actually, because I was thought, "Fuck plants!" and kinda giggled to myself. It is pretty fascinating though, about plant diversity. Ginko is both a species and the only example of its phylum. Flowering plants make up, percentage wise, all the fucking plants. Pine trees. Cool. Conifers are made up of 600 species. Flowering plants, 250,000 species. What the shit.....
It's pretty crazy, isn't it? We did plant phylogeny last term and I thought I was going to die, but you know, the upshot is that now I know a bunch of shit that I can think about when I walk around outside.
The fetal pig was all right. I didn't really like cutting open its face, but its guts were not too bad and very interesting. I imagine a human cadaver is going to be extremely disturbing, but I'll get over it.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 03:46:16 AM
The fetal pig was all right. I didn't really like cutting open its face, but its guts were not too bad and very interesting. I imagine a human cadaver is going to be extremely disturbing, but I'll get over it.
Jesus, I hope I don't have to do that any time soon. That would wig me out big time. The idea that I might though, is good preparation in case that I do end up having to.
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 03:46:16 AM
The fetal pig was all right. I didn't really like cutting open its face, but its guts were not too bad and very interesting. I imagine a human cadaver is going to be extremely disturbing, but I'll get over it.
Jesus, I hope I don't have to do that any time soon. That would wig me out big time. The idea that I might though, is good preparation in case that I do end up having to.
You really don't have to unless you're applying to medical school. I'm taking A&P because it makes the most sense for what I want to do, plus it gives me that option if I decide to go that route, but even for an organismal bio degree here it's optional and it's not part of the general or molecular tracks at all.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:08:58 AM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 03:46:16 AM
The fetal pig was all right. I didn't really like cutting open its face, but its guts were not too bad and very interesting. I imagine a human cadaver is going to be extremely disturbing, but I'll get over it.
Jesus, I hope I don't have to do that any time soon. That would wig me out big time. The idea that I might though, is good preparation in case that I do end up having to.
You really don't have to unless you're applying to medical school. I'm taking A&P because it makes the most sense for what I want to do, plus it gives me that option if I decide to go that route, but even for an organismal bio degree here it's optional and it's not part of the general or molecular tracks at all.
The mysterious potentially career producing question I asked is microbiological in nature. So that's good. I'll probably be able to avoid it entirely.
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 04:12:24 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:08:58 AM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 03:46:16 AM
The fetal pig was all right. I didn't really like cutting open its face, but its guts were not too bad and very interesting. I imagine a human cadaver is going to be extremely disturbing, but I'll get over it.
Jesus, I hope I don't have to do that any time soon. That would wig me out big time. The idea that I might though, is good preparation in case that I do end up having to.
You really don't have to unless you're applying to medical school. I'm taking A&P because it makes the most sense for what I want to do, plus it gives me that option if I decide to go that route, but even for an organismal bio degree here it's optional and it's not part of the general or molecular tracks at all.
The mysterious potentially career producing question I asked is microbiological in nature. So that's good. I'll probably be able to avoid it entirely.
I think that basically the only people who really have to take A&P at all are those going into medical fields, and even within that subgroup you only have to take the cadaver lab if you're planning on med school or human organismal research.
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:16:30 AM
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
I'd probably start fretting over things that are irrelevant, like who s/he was, what did s/he do for a living, why did s/he decide to give their body over to be cut up by students, all that. It doesn't sound easy.
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 04:20:50 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:16:30 AM
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
I'd probably start fretting over things that are irrelevant, like who s/he was, what did s/he do for a living, why did s/he decide to give their body over to be cut up by students, all that. It doesn't sound easy.
Oh, I'll probably have a whole imaginary backstory with a personality and a name made up for them by the end of the first week. Good times.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:33:55 AM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 04:20:50 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:16:30 AM
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
I'd probably start fretting over things that are irrelevant, like who s/he was, what did s/he do for a living, why did s/he decide to give their body over to be cut up by students, all that. It doesn't sound easy.
Oh, I'll probably have a whole imaginary backstory with a personality and a name made up for them by the end of the first week. Good times.
Go sordid or go home. ;)
Take some comfort in the fact* that most people who do human cadaver training don't go completely bugfuck
* this is a fact, right? :eek:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2014, 07:51:55 AM
Take some comfort in the fact* that most people who do human cadaver training don't go completely bugfuck
* this is a fact, right? :eek:
You better hope so.
This would include all of your medical assistance.
You're probably fine. Detachment happens after enough exposure. After a month Nigel probably won't really give a shit about corpses.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on April 26, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2014, 07:51:55 AM
Take some comfort in the fact* that most people who do human cadaver training don't go completely bugfuck
* this is a fact, right? :eek:
You better hope so.
This would include all of your medical assistance.
You're probably fine. Detachment happens after enough exposure. After a month Nigel probably won't really give a shit about corpses.
A side-show comic once told me that giving them names helps with distance-standing, objectifying the subject and such.
Quote from: LuciferX on April 26, 2014, 11:29:59 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on April 26, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2014, 07:51:55 AM
Take some comfort in the fact* that most people who do human cadaver training don't go completely bugfuck
* this is a fact, right? :eek:
You better hope so.
This would include all of your medical assistance.
You're probably fine. Detachment happens after enough exposure. After a month Nigel probably won't really give a shit about corpses.
A side-show comic once told me that giving them names helps with distance-standing, objectifying the subject and such.
That's actually pretty interesting.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on April 26, 2014, 05:17:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:33:55 AM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 04:20:50 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:16:30 AM
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
I'd probably start fretting over things that are irrelevant, like who s/he was, what did s/he do for a living, why did s/he decide to give their body over to be cut up by students, all that. It doesn't sound easy.
Oh, I'll probably have a whole imaginary backstory with a personality and a name made up for them by the end of the first week. Good times.
Go sordid or go home. ;)
No, I wouldn't do that. The cadaver was once a person, who made the decision to donate their body to science. That's a generous act that most people don't do, and is highly deserving of respect. Even though the person is dead, their body is deserving of being treated with utmost respect out of deference to the gift of the donor. If they respected us enough to leave us their body, we need to return that respect.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2014, 07:51:55 AM
Take some comfort in the fact* that most people who do human cadaver training don't go completely bugfuck
* this is a fact, right? :eek:
Yes, it'll be fine.
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on April 26, 2014, 05:17:23 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:33:55 AM
Quote from: (Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight) on April 26, 2014, 04:20:50 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 26, 2014, 04:16:30 AM
It's going to be weird, though. The whole cadaver thing. Three terms with the same cadaver... I imagine I'll get to know it really well. I might go a little strange for a while, I'm not sure how hanging out with and cutting apart a human corpse every other day for most of a year is going to affect my psyche.
I'd probably start fretting over things that are irrelevant, like who s/he was, what did s/he do for a living, why did s/he decide to give their body over to be cut up by students, all that. It doesn't sound easy.
Oh, I'll probably have a whole imaginary backstory with a personality and a name made up for them by the end of the first week. Good times.
Go sordid or go home. ;)
No, I wouldn't do that. The cadaver was once a person, who made the decision to donate their body to science. That's a generous act that most people don't do, and is highly deserving of respect. Even though the person is dead, their body is deserving of being treated with utmost respect out of deference to the gift of the donor. If they respected us enough to leave us their body, we need to return that respect.
Fair point
From Tuesday (Fungi), slide headlines in bold, my notes in plain.
Puffballs
If you kick them, they jizz everywhere.
Stinkhorns
They smell like dead shit
Fairy ring
All part of the same organism. Kinda like a Hentai dick monster. The mycelium is dikaryotic.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 03, 2014, 01:52:28 AM
From Tuesday (Fungi), slide headlines in bold, my notes in plain.
Puffballs
If you kick them, they jizz everywhere.
Stinkhorns
They smell like dead shit
Fairy ring
All part of the same organism. Kinda like a Hentai dick monster. The mycelium is dikaryotic.
All so very, very true.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 03, 2014, 05:55:27 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 03, 2014, 01:52:28 AM
From Tuesday (Fungi), slide headlines in bold, my notes in plain.
Puffballs
If you kick them, they jizz everywhere.
Stinkhorns
They smell like dead shit
Fairy ring
All part of the same organism. Kinda like a Hentai dick monster. The mycelium is dikaryotic.
All so very, very true.
I kinda paused and chuckled before I wrote down "the mycelium is dikaryotic." I was like, "well, this isn't exactly going to fit the mood"
Any word with "dik" in, fits that mood perfectly :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 03, 2014, 06:16:45 AM
Any word with "dik" in, fits that mood perfectly :lulz:
:lulz:
Shit. I didn't even catch that.
Dude, I know how to pronounce "dikaryotic" and I still read it that way first :lulz:
:lulz:
I have too much homework. Geology midterm on Monday, and I think two midterms on Wednesday? Fuuuuuuck me. I'm supposed to memorize the heart and inner circulatory system, the respiratory system, and the digestive system by then.
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
From the article:
QuoteDriving males to such feats are astronomical levels of testosterone. Think of an MMA fight wrapped in an Insane Clown Posse concert wrapped in the Insane Clown Posse playing during an MMA fight.
:uday:
:hit:
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally
rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 05, 2014, 03:06:24 PM
From the article:
QuoteDriving males to such feats are astronomical levels of testosterone. Think of an MMA fight wrapped in an Insane Clown Posse concert wrapped in the Insane Clown Posse playing during an MMA fight.
:uday:
:hit:
ICP is ALWAYS ahead of the curve.
I would also like everyone to take a moment and imagine what human society would look like if human males raped themselves to death at puberty.
This is a science-fiction story just begging to be written.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:35:38 PM
I would also like everyone to take a moment and imagine what human society would look like if human males raped themselves to death at puberty.
This is a science-fiction story just begging to be written.
Well, in a manner of speaking... :lulz:
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2014, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:35:38 PM
I would also like everyone to take a moment and imagine what human society would look like if human males raped themselves to death at puberty.
This is a science-fiction story just begging to be written.
Well, in a manner of speaking... :lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 05, 2014, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:35:38 PM
I would also like everyone to take a moment and imagine what human society would look like if human males raped themselves to death at puberty.
This is a science-fiction story just begging to be written.
Well, in a manner of speaking... :lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Which is, as a matter of fact, a really good basis for the argument for a socialized minimum standard of living. It's not that poor people lack the capacity for moral behavior (according to their society's standards of morality), it's that the environmental pressure of being poor makes survival, in its most basic forms, take priority. Add social shaming/exclusion to the equation and there is yet another pressure, and a significant one, which can lead to a whole host of negative behavior expression.
Make everything better for the poor, and there is a trickle-up effect in which the not-poor now no longer have to worry as much about the frequent side-effects of poverty in society. But a part of the moral construct of our society is a punishment fetish; a belief that not only can socially destructive behavior can be resolved through punishment, but that those who have behaved badly
deserve punishment; we have created a moral imperative for punishing, in which it is morally wrong to withhold punishment and morally right to administer it. Therefore, we can
elevate ourselves morally by meting out, or even merely calling for, punishment to those we have concluded deserve it.
A moral imperative for punishment can only be mete by just punishment. This is only just if the punishment is not exclusively punitive. For this to obtain, the punitive action must also be corrective. Meaning, the just desert cannot only restrict the individual's freedom without also mitigating incarceration by way of rehabilitation programs. Ideally, there would only be positive reinforcement, and a few more difficult cases. In reality, our correctional facilities have a very different agenda. The point of Justice is to provide the conditions for human autonomy, not to take them away. Without autonomy there is no freedom. Without freedom there is no justice (or responsibility, for that matter). Or so my Neo-Kantian house-guest insists. The biggest crime is to intentionally create the conditions that force people into deleterious conflict. That one's not on me.
Quote from: LuciferX on May 06, 2014, 05:12:30 AM
A moral imperative for punishment can only be mete by just punishment. This is only just if the punishment is not exclusively punitive. For this to obtain, the punitive action must also be corrective. Meaning, the just desert cannot only restrict the individual's freedom without also mitigating incarceration by way of rehabilitation programs. Ideally, there would only be positive reinforcement, and a few more difficult cases. In reality, our correctional facilities have a very different agenda. The point of Justice is to provide the conditions for human autonomy, not to take them away. Without autonomy there is no freedom. Without freedom there is no justice (or responsibility, for that matter). Or so my Neo-Kantian house-guest insists. The biggest crime is to intentionally create the conditions that force people into deleterious conflict. That one's not on me.
Eh, you're conflating morals with ethics, which is a frequent error.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 06, 2014, 06:50:39 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 06, 2014, 05:12:30 AM
A moral imperative for punishment can only be mete by just punishment. This is only just if the punishment is not exclusively punitive. For this to obtain, the punitive action must also be corrective. Meaning, the just desert cannot only restrict the individual's freedom without also mitigating incarceration by way of rehabilitation programs. Ideally, there would only be positive reinforcement, and a few more difficult cases. In reality, our correctional facilities have a very different agenda. The point of Justice is to provide the conditions for human autonomy, not to take them away. Without autonomy there is no freedom. Without freedom there is no justice (or responsibility, for that matter). Or so my Neo-Kantian house-guest insists. The biggest crime is to intentionally create the conditions that force people into deleterious conflict. That one's not on me.
Eh, you're conflating morals with ethics, which is a frequent error.
Although morals are based on ethical principals, to be fair, what he meant by "just" was that the practical reasoning must be understood in terms that also conform to pure reason. Because:
QuoteAll moral concepts have their seat and origin completely a priori in reason, and indeed in the most common reason just as in reason that is speculative to the highest degree...
And there I just cut him off because I detected some thinly veiled snark? This one's a feisty little cracker, all he does is bitch and then throws a fit when he loses at cards. What a sport. Lovely specimen.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 06, 2014, 12:21:28 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Which is, as a matter of fact, a really good basis for the argument for a socialized minimum standard of living. It's not that poor people lack the capacity for moral behavior (according to their society's standards of morality), it's that the environmental pressure of being poor makes survival, in its most basic forms, take priority. Add social shaming/exclusion to the equation and there is yet another pressure, and a significant one, which can lead to a whole host of negative behavior expression.
Make everything better for the poor, and there is a trickle-up effect in which the not-poor now no longer have to worry as much about the frequent side-effects of poverty in society. But a part of the moral construct of our society is a punishment fetish; a belief that not only can socially destructive behavior can be resolved through punishment, but that those who have behaved badly deserve punishment; we have created a moral imperative for punishing, in which it is morally wrong to withhold punishment and morally right to administer it. Therefore, we can elevate ourselves morally by meting out, or even merely calling for, punishment to those we have concluded deserve it.
It's a bit dismaying. You see it anytime someone is on death row. Then lethal injections aren't enough because they're humane. We need to make our executions brutal and prolong the convict's suffering. They didn't show their victims any mercy. Never mind that bit about cruel and unusual punishment. The Bill of Rights only applies when We The People
TM, who I speak for entirely, say it does.
What it all comes down to is revenge, and not wanting to have to feed prisoners. We really are sadistic freaks here in the US.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 07, 2014, 01:59:25 AM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 06, 2014, 12:21:28 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Which is, as a matter of fact, a really good basis for the argument for a socialized minimum standard of living. It's not that poor people lack the capacity for moral behavior (according to their society's standards of morality), it's that the environmental pressure of being poor makes survival, in its most basic forms, take priority. Add social shaming/exclusion to the equation and there is yet another pressure, and a significant one, which can lead to a whole host of negative behavior expression.
Make everything better for the poor, and there is a trickle-up effect in which the not-poor now no longer have to worry as much about the frequent side-effects of poverty in society. But a part of the moral construct of our society is a punishment fetish; a belief that not only can socially destructive behavior can be resolved through punishment, but that those who have behaved badly deserve punishment; we have created a moral imperative for punishing, in which it is morally wrong to withhold punishment and morally right to administer it. Therefore, we can elevate ourselves morally by meting out, or even merely calling for, punishment to those we have concluded deserve it.
It's a bit dismaying. You see it anytime someone is on death row. Then lethal injections aren't enough because they're humane. We need to make our executions brutal and prolong the convict's suffering. They didn't show their victims any mercy. Never mind that bit about cruel and unusual punishment. The Bill of Rights only applies when We The PeopleTM, who I speak for entirely, say it does.
What it all comes down to is revenge, and not wanting to have to feed prisoners. We really are sadistic freaks here in the US.
Apart from botched attempts, what about the innocent that have died by execution? By it's own logic, should the process of execution be tried for murder, it would be found guilty and summarily terminated.
Quote from: LuciferX on May 07, 2014, 04:57:56 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 07, 2014, 01:59:25 AM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 06, 2014, 12:21:28 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Which is, as a matter of fact, a really good basis for the argument for a socialized minimum standard of living. It's not that poor people lack the capacity for moral behavior (according to their society's standards of morality), it's that the environmental pressure of being poor makes survival, in its most basic forms, take priority. Add social shaming/exclusion to the equation and there is yet another pressure, and a significant one, which can lead to a whole host of negative behavior expression.
Make everything better for the poor, and there is a trickle-up effect in which the not-poor now no longer have to worry as much about the frequent side-effects of poverty in society. But a part of the moral construct of our society is a punishment fetish; a belief that not only can socially destructive behavior can be resolved through punishment, but that those who have behaved badly deserve punishment; we have created a moral imperative for punishing, in which it is morally wrong to withhold punishment and morally right to administer it. Therefore, we can elevate ourselves morally by meting out, or even merely calling for, punishment to those we have concluded deserve it.
It's a bit dismaying. You see it anytime someone is on death row. Then lethal injections aren't enough because they're humane. We need to make our executions brutal and prolong the convict's suffering. They didn't show their victims any mercy. Never mind that bit about cruel and unusual punishment. The Bill of Rights only applies when We The PeopleTM, who I speak for entirely, say it does.
What it all comes down to is revenge, and not wanting to have to feed prisoners. We really are sadistic freaks here in the US.
Apart from botched attempts, what about the innocent that have died by execution? By it's own logic, should the process of execution be tried for murder, it would be found guilty and summarily terminated.
Yeah, but they were probably black. I agree with you though. When you put capital punishment on trial for its own merits and drawbacks, it fails. It's hypocritical, fails as a deterrent, more expensive than life imprisonment, disproportionately sentenced, etc. But these are all logical arguments. Punishment freaks don't care about logic. Logic gets in the way of maximizing the suffering of criminals who got caught.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 07, 2014, 05:31:52 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on May 07, 2014, 04:57:56 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 07, 2014, 01:59:25 AM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 06, 2014, 12:21:28 AM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 05:52:07 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 05, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 05, 2014, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 04, 2014, 04:45:35 AM
Wow. Way to go, evolution. Just... way to go. http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-creature-of-the-week-this-marsupial-has-marathon-sex-until-it-goes-blind-and-drops-dead/
Complicated though it can be at times, humans have a better way of doing it.
Twid,
Understating
This is the first thing that popped into my head when Sam Harris claimed that morality was an inherent trait.
You know what? Evolution don't give a fuck. We have a species here where the males literally rape themselves to death. If morality confers an adaptive benefit, it might be inherent, but given the way different societies have defined moral behavior at different times, I'm gonna go with nope. Morality is a human invention that changes with society, and I am actually completely comfortable with that because I am lucky enough to live in a society where not only do I get to be a scientist and homeowner even though I have a vagina, but also the likelihood of everyone else just being OK with my son being murdered and my daughters carried off for breeding stock over a border dispute is HIGHLY unlikely.
If he wanted to make the argument that altruism was inherent, then yeah. But altruism gets prioritized in ways that aren't always moral. Morality is nothing more than a human endeavor (whether through philosophy or religion) to codify altruism (instinct). My pacifism is a philosophical extension of my natural altruism (as well as a recognition of the wastefulness of expending lives and resources to acquire resources). That's not something that I was born with, nor any human, as is evidenced by, well, everything we know about humans. And of course, I would kill a man if he was a direct and immediate threat to my own survival, or that of a loved one. That's also instinct.
Yeah, there's a body of evidence to indicate that altruism and empathy are inherent traits that express to a greater or lesser degree depending on environmental pressures. From there you can even argue that an ethical sense is inherent in humans as a species. But as you say, morals are comprised of the codification of ethics as they are perceived by a social body, be it religious or secular.
An ape comes across a turtle flipped on its back. What does the ape do?
Well, how hungry is the ape?
If the ape is not hungry, or at least not starving, then, it'll pick up the turtle and put it on its feet. Because that's just a nice thing to do.
I the ape IS starving, well, turtle's fucked, and the ape just got free lunch.
Troop of apes come across another troop of apes of the same species. What do the apes do?
Well, how hungry are the apes?
Which is, as a matter of fact, a really good basis for the argument for a socialized minimum standard of living. It's not that poor people lack the capacity for moral behavior (according to their society's standards of morality), it's that the environmental pressure of being poor makes survival, in its most basic forms, take priority. Add social shaming/exclusion to the equation and there is yet another pressure, and a significant one, which can lead to a whole host of negative behavior expression.
Make everything better for the poor, and there is a trickle-up effect in which the not-poor now no longer have to worry as much about the frequent side-effects of poverty in society. But a part of the moral construct of our society is a punishment fetish; a belief that not only can socially destructive behavior can be resolved through punishment, but that those who have behaved badly deserve punishment; we have created a moral imperative for punishing, in which it is morally wrong to withhold punishment and morally right to administer it. Therefore, we can elevate ourselves morally by meting out, or even merely calling for, punishment to those we have concluded deserve it.
It's a bit dismaying. You see it anytime someone is on death row. Then lethal injections aren't enough because they're humane. We need to make our executions brutal and prolong the convict's suffering. They didn't show their victims any mercy. Never mind that bit about cruel and unusual punishment. The Bill of Rights only applies when We The PeopleTM, who I speak for entirely, say it does.
What it all comes down to is revenge, and not wanting to have to feed prisoners. We really are sadistic freaks here in the US.
Apart from botched attempts, what about the innocent that have died by execution? By it's own logic, should the process of execution be tried for murder, it would be found guilty and summarily terminated.
Yeah, but they were probably black. I agree with you though. When you put capital punishment on trial for its own merits and drawbacks, it fails. It's hypocritical, fails as a deterrent, more expensive than life imprisonment, disproportionately sentenced, etc. But these are all logical arguments. Punishment freaks don't care about logic. Logic gets in the way of maximizing the suffering of criminals who got caught.
The thing that gets my goat is how egregious punishment ever developed a mechanism of positive reinforcement to have already survived this long. That's probably why they also call it "time" (s)erved. It reminds us that when dealing with crime, we use the multiplication (times) table to perform calculations. Ergo, one negative (crime), times another negative(time served), results in a positive. Hooray. Math > Logic :horrormirth:
To switch gears for a moment, Twid, I was wondering (what with the diversity of your research background) whether you have had occasion to learn much about Huntington's Disease? If I get into the Honors College I am thinking about researching some aspect it as part of my senior thesis. I'm not sure I can shoehorn it into the "urban" theme, but I can try!
I'm also considering seeing if I can document the disappearing small towns of Oregon as a side effect of the urbanization process for my thesis. It's a bit of a stretch but might be more directly applicable to the urban theme than Huntington's.
Besides, it would allow me to drive all over Oregon and take pictures.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 12, 2014, 05:45:27 PM
To switch gears for a moment, Twid, I was wondering (what with the diversity of your research background) whether you have had occasion to learn much about Huntington's Disease? If I get into the Honors College I am thinking about researching some aspect it as part of my senior thesis. I'm not sure I can shoehorn it into the "urban" theme, but I can try!
I'm also considering seeing if I can document the disappearing small towns of Oregon as a side effect of the urbanization process for my thesis. It's a bit of a stretch but might be more directly applicable to the urban theme than Huntington's.
Not really. We technically collect data on it, I'm pretty sure, but I honestly can't remember any of the respondents reporting that they had it. I can fish around and see if we've ever put out any papers on it if you like.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 12, 2014, 05:45:27 PM
To switch gears for a moment, Twid, I was wondering (what with the diversity of your research background) whether you have had occasion to learn much about Huntington's Disease? If I get into the Honors College I am thinking about researching some aspect it as part of my senior thesis. I'm not sure I can shoehorn it into the "urban" theme, but I can try!
I'm also considering seeing if I can document the disappearing small towns of Oregon as a side effect of the urbanization process for my thesis. It's a bit of a stretch but might be more directly applicable to the urban theme than Huntington's.
It migt be possible to correlate HD neurodegeneration with the effects of stress caused by the process of urbanization:
QuoteAntidepressants are widely used in the treatment of HD patients (Sackley et al., 2011). Recent studies suggest that chronic treatment with the SSRIs fluoxetine or sertraline increased hippocampal neurogenesis, ameliorated cognitive deficits, and depression-like behavioral symptoms in R6/1 mice (Grote et al., 2005; Renoir et al., 2012) and increased BDNF levels and neurogenesis in R6/2 mice (Peng et al., 2008). Chronic antidepressant treatment in depressed patients resulted in upregulation of CREB protein expression (Nibuya et al., 1996), CREB phosphorylation (Saarelainen et al., 2003), BDNF (Chen et al., 2001), and TrkB (Bayer et al., 2000) in the hippocampus. BDNF has been proposed to be a mediator of the effects of antidepressants (Koponen et al., 2005), by augmenting the survival and differentiation of adult-born neurons in the dentate gyrus (Groves, 2007). These results led to the hypothesis that depression in HD coincides with decreased activity in the serotonin-CREB-BDNF-TrkB pathway, resulting in cellular dysfunction and reduced neurogenesis in the hippocampus.
So daily survival stress, jail, home displacement, poor living conditions...
QuoteThe link between HPA-axis, depression, and BDNF has been explored in rodent models of depression and given much attention. Social stress has been widely used as a useful model of depression (Henn and Vollmayr, 2005). Stressors such as forced immobilization (Smith et al., 1995) and social defeat (Pizarro et al., 2004) were found to decrease BDNF expression in the hippocampus and cortical and subcortical regions of rodent models. Induced elevation of corticosterone, mimicking the effect of stress, has also been associated with reduced levels of BDNF mRNA and protein in the hippocampus and frontal cortex of rodent models (Schaaf et al., 1997, 1998; Chao et al., 1998; Dwivedi et al., 2006). Adrenalectomy surgery caused an increase of BDNF in the hippocampus (Chao et al., 1998), whilst chronic GR activation reduces both CREB phosphorylation and BDNF expression (Focking et al., 2003). This suggests regulatory ability of glucocorticoids on BDNF expression. GR was also found to interact with the BDNF receptor TrkB and corticosterone reduces TrkB-GR interaction, causing reduced BDNF-triggered glutamate release and BDNF-stimulated PLC-γ (Numakawa et al., 2009). Thus, taken together, increased HPA-axis activity may initiate a chain reaction, leading to altered 5-HT signaling, reduced CREB-mediated transcription of BDNF and damage to the hippocampus and other brain regions, which in turn, reduces negative feedback on the HPA-axis in a negative cycle may be impacted by environmental modulators, such as the cognitive stimulation and physical exercise induced by environmental enrichment. Complex gene–gene interactions and associated gene-environment interactions are presumably responsible for the variable incidence of depression both within HD patients (where each tandem repeat expansion mutation is embedded in a genome possessing a range of genetic modifiers) and the general population. Elucidation of this complexity at molecular, cellular, and systems levels will require a new generation of sophisticated animal models and clinical investigations.
https://dx.doi.org/10.3389/fneur.2013.00081
Just some thoughts?
Sometime environmental factors of pathogenesis are neglected when we figure all the genetics have been solved, in principle.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 12, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 12, 2014, 05:45:27 PM
To switch gears for a moment, Twid, I was wondering (what with the diversity of your research background) whether you have had occasion to learn much about Huntington's Disease? If I get into the Honors College I am thinking about researching some aspect it as part of my senior thesis. I'm not sure I can shoehorn it into the "urban" theme, but I can try!
I'm also considering seeing if I can document the disappearing small towns of Oregon as a side effect of the urbanization process for my thesis. It's a bit of a stretch but might be more directly applicable to the urban theme than Huntington's.
Not really. We technically collect data on it, I'm pretty sure, but I honestly can't remember any of the respondents reporting that they had it. I can fish around and see if we've ever put out any papers on it if you like.
Nah, I just thought I'd ask in case you already knew something about it and had papers/resources you could recommend.
Quote from: LuciferX on May 12, 2014, 09:22:40 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 12, 2014, 05:45:27 PM
To switch gears for a moment, Twid, I was wondering (what with the diversity of your research background) whether you have had occasion to learn much about Huntington's Disease? If I get into the Honors College I am thinking about researching some aspect it as part of my senior thesis. I'm not sure I can shoehorn it into the "urban" theme, but I can try!
I'm also considering seeing if I can document the disappearing small towns of Oregon as a side effect of the urbanization process for my thesis. It's a bit of a stretch but might be more directly applicable to the urban theme than Huntington's.
It migt be possible to correlate HD neurodegeneration with the effects of stress caused by the process of urbanization:
QuoteAntidepressants are widely used in the treatment of HD patients (Sackley et al., 2011). Recent studies suggest that chronic treatment with the SSRIs fluoxetine or sertraline increased hippocampal neurogenesis, ameliorated cognitive deficits, and depression-like behavioral symptoms in R6/1 mice (Grote et al., 2005; Renoir et al., 2012) and increased BDNF levels and neurogenesis in R6/2 mice (Peng et al., 2008). Chronic antidepressant treatment in depressed patients resulted in upregulation of CREB protein expression (Nibuya et al., 1996), CREB phosphorylation (Saarelainen et al., 2003), BDNF (Chen et al., 2001), and TrkB (Bayer et al., 2000) in the hippocampus. BDNF has been proposed to be a mediator of the effects of antidepressants (Koponen et al., 2005), by augmenting the survival and differentiation of adult-born neurons in the dentate gyrus (Groves, 2007). These results led to the hypothesis that depression in HD coincides with decreased activity in the serotonin-CREB-BDNF-TrkB pathway, resulting in cellular dysfunction and reduced neurogenesis in the hippocampus.
So daily survival stress, jail, home displacement, poor living conditions...
QuoteThe link between HPA-axis, depression, and BDNF has been explored in rodent models of depression and given much attention. Social stress has been widely used as a useful model of depression (Henn and Vollmayr, 2005). Stressors such as forced immobilization (Smith et al., 1995) and social defeat (Pizarro et al., 2004) were found to decrease BDNF expression in the hippocampus and cortical and subcortical regions of rodent models. Induced elevation of corticosterone, mimicking the effect of stress, has also been associated with reduced levels of BDNF mRNA and protein in the hippocampus and frontal cortex of rodent models (Schaaf et al., 1997, 1998; Chao et al., 1998; Dwivedi et al., 2006). Adrenalectomy surgery caused an increase of BDNF in the hippocampus (Chao et al., 1998), whilst chronic GR activation reduces both CREB phosphorylation and BDNF expression (Focking et al., 2003). This suggests regulatory ability of glucocorticoids on BDNF expression. GR was also found to interact with the BDNF receptor TrkB and corticosterone reduces TrkB-GR interaction, causing reduced BDNF-triggered glutamate release and BDNF-stimulated PLC-γ (Numakawa et al., 2009). Thus, taken together, increased HPA-axis activity may initiate a chain reaction, leading to altered 5-HT signaling, reduced CREB-mediated transcription of BDNF and damage to the hippocampus and other brain regions, which in turn, reduces negative feedback on the HPA-axis in a negative cycle may be impacted by environmental modulators, such as the cognitive stimulation and physical exercise induced by environmental enrichment. Complex gene–gene interactions and associated gene-environment interactions are presumably responsible for the variable incidence of depression both within HD patients (where each tandem repeat expansion mutation is embedded in a genome possessing a range of genetic modifiers) and the general population. Elucidation of this complexity at molecular, cellular, and systems levels will require a new generation of sophisticated animal models and clinical investigations.
https://dx.doi.org/10.3389/fneur.2013.00081
Just some thoughts?
Sometime environmental factors of pathogenesis are neglected when we figure all the genetics have been solved, in principle.
The epigenetics of Huntington's is certainly something I'd consider.
There seem to be shockingly few articles or books that talk about the relationship between entropy and emergence... I don't even know what to make of it. Anybody have any recommendations?
There have to be SOME books, because herp de derp. I just am not finding them.
My K9 powers of golden retrieval need to hit the sack, but I was going to suggest including/substituting "chaos" to the "entropy" search string... This 48 hr day too haws passed 8)
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 13, 2014, 07:59:39 AM
There have to be SOME books, because herp de derp. I just am not finding them.
Anyway If U are paying ATT. {whitch i doubt) Yesterday was Monday
Another day in the upcoming Maids4PRimE.Time.TV doc U dramA
I call PR0.testEE {never mind Anyway the Ping Pong {akaTT)
WAS HELD {see map elsewhere | Butt i had a Dr appointMint
that i did go to. sat around 1/4 hour waiting for her to show.
No show so i left to go back to the game room. The paper
i took along | written in red } weight 157 temp 97.9 { i doubt it
BP 120/88 {{ really HaHaHar & P=100 | exactly why its always 1
i have no idea? any suggestions 4it? Now back to counts?
Quote from: LuciferX on May 13, 2014, 08:15:16 AM
My K9 powers of golden retrieval need to hit the sack, but I was going to suggest including/substituting "chaos" to the "entropy" search string... This 48 hr day too haws passed 8)
Chaos isn't the same thing as entropy, and the writings I've seen about emergence and chaos don't address the specific chemical and physical conditions and phenomena I'm interested in.
I am really not asking other people to google it for me, because that's dumb.
How many book on emergence are there, by the way? I was under the assumption that as a "serious" line of research, it's fairly new.
I could be wrong, of course.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 13, 2014, 04:57:00 PM
How many book on emergence are there, by the way? I was under the assumption that as a "serious" line of research, it's fairly new.
I could be wrong, of course.
I really don't know... as a student, this is all new to me.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 13, 2014, 04:57:00 PM
How many book on emergence are there, by the way? I was under the assumption that as a "serious" line of research, it's fairly new.
I could be wrong, of course.
Ha, I posted my reply in the wrong thread! It looks like there are quite a few, based on a cursory Listmania Amazon search.
I can't see how emergent properties could be a new field of study, given that it underpins all of biology and also pretty much everything about geology and astrophysics.
And chemistry.
Yeah, point taken.
I looked it up and the dude who coined the term was George Eliot's boyfriend! Crazy.
What was it about entropy that you wanted to understand in terms of emergence? The interesting thing about chaos IMHO is that patterns emerge from
apparent disorder. That provides a foundation to explain how entropic systems can also 'move against the arrow of time' to manifest the emergence of order. I'm no expert on chaos theory, but it seems like a good alternative starting point. The math usually discourages me. :?
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 13, 2014, 04:55:03 PM
Chaos isn't the same thing as entropy, and the writings I've seen about emergence and chaos don't address the specific chemical and physical conditions and phenomena I'm interested in.
I'm starting to get a feeling that we may now be forced to write most of the books we want to read :lol:
Quote from: LuciferX on May 13, 2014, 10:55:50 PM
What was it about entropy that you wanted to understand in terms of emergence? The interesting thing about chaos IMHO is that patterns emerge from apparent disorder. That provides a foundation to explain how entropic systems can also 'move against the arrow of time' to manifest the emergence of order. I'm no expert on chaos theory, but it seems like a good alternative starting point. The math usually discourages me. :?
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 13, 2014, 04:55:03 PM
Chaos isn't the same thing as entropy, and the writings I've seen about emergence and chaos don't address the specific chemical and physical conditions and phenomena I'm interested in.
Apparent order and apparent disorder aren't really workable definitions within the context of biology in relation to entropy and chaos, near as I can tell.
Cool. Could the capacity of DNA to maintain and replicate itself be considered an apparent tendency toward order? Clearly this is not my field, I just thought it would work to view complex biological systems as a definition of emergence in the face of entropy. I'll brush up on it once Nigel finishes the reading list. :)
Quote from: LuciferX on May 14, 2014, 12:13:57 AM
Cool. Could the capacity of DNA to maintain and replicate itself be considered an apparent tendency toward order? Clearly this is not my field, I just thought it would work to view complex biological systems as a definition of emergence in the face of entropy. I'll brush up on it once Nigel finishes the reading list. :)
It's not really apparent order so much as order. Mutations aren't apparent disorder so much as actual mistakes that can cause cell death or pretty serious disease. They're not really points that either make sense or don't make sense based on our perceptual biases. Entropy is the loss of energy in the form of heat, and you can't get it back. You have to keep pumping energy into a cell in order for it not to fall apart. These things aren't really up for interpretation.
Maybe better words to use in context is organization and disorganization, so that philosophical connotations don't enter in. Apparent order is better used for a scientific model, which might not be 100% accurate but gives you the gist of what's going on. For example, how people generally picture an atom. It's not accurate but it's informative enough to give let you understand what's going on.
QuoteEntropy is the loss of energy in the form of heat
True. Thermodynamically, entropy is heat loss, although that is primarily understood in terms of dispersion. The heat is only "lost" because it does [not] obey the orders of Maxwel' Deamon. I mean it's not like I don't sympathise with errant energy quanta trying to escape oppressive regimes :lulz:
[Ed.]
This article, though short, discusses what I'm interested in: http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/11/4/993
Very cool stuff, although initially somewhat "brute-force" in their articulation of "recognition" :lulz:
QuoteWhat will be argued here is that the scope of recognition processes between parts is increased when preceded by their dispersal, which multiplies the number of encounters and creates a richer potential for recognition.
Very interesting, reading it now. Funny how B.Testa is like de facto authority on subject. With "Dissolvence" the only other paper I found was also his - my browser won't let me see it:
http://idc311-www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0065249097800032
(More about drug research or something)
And, of course, the cellular automata approach:
http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/3/2/27
--- Back to the text at hand----
http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/11/4/993
So, first read initially started me thinking that increasing the number and variety of encounters, by dispersion, does not immediately obtain greater probability of recognition. I think the discriminating factor would have to the repetition of particular encounters. Although by dispersion the number of encounters increases, their repetition, discrimination and recognition would only increase at the expense of variety...
Then I realize that might be addressed by "The Kullback-Lieber Divergence", although I have no idea why. Then my understanding of Top-Down" in the context of submersion indicates that I should probably give this a second pass... Sleepy time now.
This definition of "Dissolvence" made the top-down notion of submersion turn and click:
QuoteFar from being a destruction, dissolvence is understood here as a creative process in which information is generated to fuel the process of self-organisation of complex systems, allowing them to appear and evolve to higher states of organisation and emergence.
Quote from: LuciferX on May 14, 2014, 10:14:04 PM
This definition of "Dissolvence" made the top-down notion of submersion turn and click:
QuoteFar from being a destruction, dissolvence is understood here as a creative process in which information is generated to fuel the process of self-organisation of complex systems, allowing them to appear and evolve to higher states of organisation and emergence.
Yeah, that right there is the line of thinking I'm interested in. I found and ordered a book, I'll post about it when I read it.
NEW TOPIC: How fucking adorable (as well as informative) is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osWuWjbeO-Y
I think I love this guy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6dzUOYTQtQ
That really makes me want to go get a pint of Pliny the Elder
Ed.[deleted wrong post - what used to be between brackets here was not supposed to exist... The horror :oops:]
Took my lab practicum today. Most of the slides, models etc were pretty straightforward but there were three or four parts of the pig dissection that were really difficult to identify so I just started making shit up. The Vesicles of Despair and the Tubules of I Don't Know. The Trumpets of Venus, the Capillaries of Fuck This, and the Islets of Pig. I eventually entered the Zones of Indifference, traversed the Arteries of Putting Down Any Answer, and scaled the Gland of Making Stuff Up, at which point I realized that I had reached the Vestibule of I'm Done.
I think I did pretty well.
Has anyone here taken 300-level organic chemistry? I posted a fairly simple question on Facebook asking about the homework load, and everybody has a fucking opinion but nobody wants to answer my actual question, which is what I get for posting it on Facebook.
One guy messaged me to tell me that he's taking it right now for the third time and he's not taking any other classes with it, and I'm like, OK... do what's the homework load like? No answer.
:facepalm:
With the exception of scanning and passing in my now late last homework assignment for Biotech, semester's done. Definitely did some guesswork on some of the questions as relates to animal based Biotech/human biology (I missed that lecture, and we didn't cover animals in Gen Bio II due to accumulated snow days). The professor urged me to be more timely in my future classes and to take my studies more seriously. I was tempted, briefly, to let her know I got a solid A in Micro, that I'm in honors society (my inability to catch up and pass math won't affect that, GPA wise) and that I do in fact take my studies seriously, but she's right. I didn't bring my A game to this class after a certain point. And I think that frustrated her, because she knows that I get the material. I could tell that she genuinely likes me regardless, and vice versa. I've also decided I'm never taking a Saturday morning class again if I can help it, because the last thing I want to do on a Friday after work is go, "oh right. I have to do work for that OTHER class." And I think that was part of my problem. I saw it as that other class.
Next up. Genetics, with Professor Kasili (my Gen Bio I professor from last semester)
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 17, 2014, 02:55:11 PM
Has anyone here taken 300-level organic chemistry? I posted a fairly simple question on Facebook asking about the homework load, and everybody has a fucking opinion but nobody wants to answer my actual question, which is what I get for posting it on Facebook.
One guy messaged me to tell me that he's taking it right now for the third time and he's not taking any other classes with it, and I'm like, OK... do what's the homework load like? No answer.
:facepalm:
If he's taking it for the third time, he's probably not going to put the extra work into actually answering your question anyway. :lulz:
I'm not sure if I know anyone who has (we wouldn't offer it at BHCC anyway), but I'll ask around if I can think of anyone who would have.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 17, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 17, 2014, 02:55:11 PM
Has anyone here taken 300-level organic chemistry? I posted a fairly simple question on Facebook asking about the homework load, and everybody has a fucking opinion but nobody wants to answer my actual question, which is what I get for posting it on Facebook.
One guy messaged me to tell me that he's taking it right now for the third time and he's not taking any other classes with it, and I'm like, OK... do what's the homework load like? No answer.
:facepalm:
If he's taking it for the third time, he's probably not going to put the extra work into actually answering your question anyway. :lulz:
I'm not sure if I know anyone who has (we wouldn't offer it at BHCC anyway), but I'll ask around if I can think of anyone who would have.
I have gotten replies from two other people who have taken it, although neither of them actually answered my question. I think that most likely I'll take it this winter with A&P II.
I anticipate that at least a dozen people will urge me not to take it with any of the A&P series, or molecular, or cell bio, or micro, or genetics... in fact, to take only one class at a time for the next six years, because none of the "hard" classes should ever be taken with any other classes, ever, or YOU WILL FAIL and be a FAILURE.
And of course, it's better to wait years after taking gen chem to take it, so that you can be a rusty crapheap instead of remembering anything you learned in nine months of chemistry classes.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 18, 2014, 01:05:51 AM
I anticipate that at least a dozen people will urge me not to take it with any of the A&P series, or molecular, or cell bio, or micro, or genetics... in fact, to take only one class at a time for the next six years, because none of the "hard" classes should ever be taken with any other classes, ever, or YOU WILL FAIL and be a FAILURE.
And of course, it's better to wait years after taking gen chem to take it, so that you can be a rusty crapheap instead of remembering anything you learned in nine months of chemistry classes.
Exactly. I mean, science isn't going to get easier, and it's not going to stay still for your benefit. School's hard. That's the nature of the beast. But you don't conquer a beast by taking it easy. What are you supposed to fill your junior and senior year with, 100 level humanities courses? Did Stephen Hawking go eh, I have to take calculus this year, I'll fill the rest of it with intro to modern art and Brit Lit I?
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 18, 2014, 03:19:29 AM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 18, 2014, 01:05:51 AM
I anticipate that at least a dozen people will urge me not to take it with any of the A&P series, or molecular, or cell bio, or micro, or genetics... in fact, to take only one class at a time for the next six years, because none of the "hard" classes should ever be taken with any other classes, ever, or YOU WILL FAIL and be a FAILURE.
And of course, it's better to wait years after taking gen chem to take it, so that you can be a rusty crapheap instead of remembering anything you learned in nine months of chemistry classes.
Exactly. I mean, science isn't going to get easier, and it's not going to stay still for your benefit. School's hard. That's the nature of the beast. But you don't conquer a beast by taking it easy. What are you supposed to fill your junior and senior year with, 100 level humanities courses? Did Stephen Hawking go eh, I have to take calculus this year, I'll fill the rest of it with intro to modern art and Brit Lit I?
I was also told not to take a math with a science, or more than one science at a time. Because that's totally reasonable advice for a science major. Uhhhhh...
When I was hanging out with Roger I was telling him about how I'd have to take chem, physics and calculus at the same time and he was like that's a good thing, especially since physics and calculus are complementary. His only think that he warned me about was to do my homework immediately after class, because otherwise it would fall right out of my head. And you know, it worked well for me for the most part taking the biology courses at once. And algebra would have been fine if I didn't go a couple of weeks without access to mymathlab.
Yeah, calculus & chemistry, definitely. I didn't take calculus but I can see how useful it would have been this term, and PCC recommends taking algebra with first term chemistry, trig with second term, and calculus with third.
I think that my solution is going to be to wait a year to take A&P, and take molecular bio and ochem together this fall, along with an online geology class. I can't take cell bio until I take molecular, so that will open up some more options. That way I can take two bio and two psych classes winter and spring terms, spend my summer doing research, and start A&P next Fall along with whatever I have left.
I'm finally delving into epigenetics a little, and it's wondrous to me just what worlds of information in our DNA is yet to be uncovered. I also LOL at the apparent historical tendency of biologists to dismiss anything they don't understand. "Oh, that bit over there? It doesn't do anything, it's just junk" is a recurring refrain.
Even accounting for relative ignorance, though, how ANY biologist could look at nature, look at DNA, and conclude "Oh, that other 98%? It's junk, it doesn't do anything" is completely beyond me. A structure in nature that's 98% useless? It just doesn't happen.
Anyway, it's nice to finally know a little bit about what little is known about what "junk" DNA does. And I love that the function and mechanics of almost 98% of the genome is still a complete mystery. It's kind of like when researchers realized that every single neuron makes 1000-100,000 connections, or that glial cells have a more complex and significant role in brain function than just acting as fillers and insulators... and we don't know WHAT.
We are so nowhere close to having this shit figured out, and that makes me SO HAPPY.
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 24, 2014, 01:45:55 AM
I'm finally delving into epigenetics a little, and it's wondrous to me just what worlds of information in our DNA is yet to be uncovered. I also LOL at the apparent historical tendency of biologists to dismiss anything they don't understand. "Oh, that bit over there? It doesn't do anything, it's just junk" is a recurring refrain.
Even accounting for relative ignorance, though, how ANY biologist could look at nature, look at DNA, and conclude "Oh, that other 98%? It's junk, it doesn't do anything" is completely beyond me. A structure in nature that's 98% useless? It just doesn't happen.
Anyway, it's nice to finally know a little bit about what little is known about what "junk" DNA does. And I love that the function and mechanics of almost 98% of the genome is still a complete mystery. It's kind of like when researchers realized that every single neuron makes 1000-100,000 connections, or that glial cells have a more complex and significant role in brain function than just acting as fillers and insulators... and we don't know WHAT.
We are so nowhere close to having this shit figured out, and that makes me SO HAPPY.
I know I poo poo'd it a little bit before, but it really is an interesting field. And I agree. Biology works on a rule of good enough. It's like what Kai said once, it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the fit. Replicating gene sequences takes energy that could be put to other uses. So those bits of "junk" DNA are probably beneficial. They might not code for proteins, but they're probably doing something, and I think one of the most intriguing things I've heard, and I might be getting it wrong, is that those bits give instructions for when to code for the coded bits, and in conjunction with other sequences.
Quote from: Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn on May 24, 2014, 02:30:47 AM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 24, 2014, 01:45:55 AM
I'm finally delving into epigenetics a little, and it's wondrous to me just what worlds of information in our DNA is yet to be uncovered. I also LOL at the apparent historical tendency of biologists to dismiss anything they don't understand. "Oh, that bit over there? It doesn't do anything, it's just junk" is a recurring refrain.
Even accounting for relative ignorance, though, how ANY biologist could look at nature, look at DNA, and conclude "Oh, that other 98%? It's junk, it doesn't do anything" is completely beyond me. A structure in nature that's 98% useless? It just doesn't happen.
Anyway, it's nice to finally know a little bit about what little is known about what "junk" DNA does. And I love that the function and mechanics of almost 98% of the genome is still a complete mystery. It's kind of like when researchers realized that every single neuron makes 1000-100,000 connections, or that glial cells have a more complex and significant role in brain function than just acting as fillers and insulators... and we don't know WHAT.
We are so nowhere close to having this shit figured out, and that makes me SO HAPPY.
I know I poo poo'd it a little bit before, but it really is an interesting field. And I agree. Biology works on a rule of good enough. It's like what Kai said once, it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the fit. Replicating gene sequences takes energy that could be put to other uses. So those bits of "junk" DNA are probably beneficial. They might not code for proteins, but they're probably doing something, and I think one of the most intriguing things I've heard, and I might be getting it wrong, is that those bits give instructions for when to code for the coded bits, and in conjunction with other sequences.
The book I'm reading is "The Epigenetics Revolution", and if you're interested in the topic I recommend it, it's very good. It's essentially just an accessibly-written overview of the state of the research as of 2012.
I wrote another installment in "Girl Meets Slough": http://girlmeetsslough.blogspot.com/2014/05/rain-gardens.html
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on June 01, 2014, 01:58:17 AM
I wrote another installment in "Girl Meets Slough": http://girlmeetsslough.blogspot.com/2014/05/rain-gardens.html
Good read. I especially like your idea on allowing nature to find it's own equilibrium. And I'm going to look into rain gardens now. Certain to make my homeowners association hate me more than they already do :)
Quote from: Raz Tech on June 01, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on June 01, 2014, 01:58:17 AM
I wrote another installment in "Girl Meets Slough": http://girlmeetsslough.blogspot.com/2014/05/rain-gardens.html
Good read. I especially like your idea on allowing nature to find it's own equilibrium. And I'm going to look into rain gardens now. Certain to make my homeowners association hate me more than they already do :)
Excellent! :)
Cool! The first I ever heard about runoff water was that solar roadways clip. No wonder all our burns are minging :(