I'm sure we've all heard more than we want to hear about Miley Cyrus. I'm pretty much Cyrus-neutral, I've never cared and have no reason to care. However, I did watch that godawful trainwreck of a performance.
When I watched the video I started at "Oh my god this is terrible and she can't sing, that poor thing" and then it just proceeded to get worse and worse, with her tongue hanging out in a way that was utterly unerotic and grotesque, and I was like "HOW IS THIS HAPPENING IT'S SO AWKWARD" and then it got WORSE and I wondered whether she was deliberately making a mockery of the music industry, and then she took off her whatever that was and revealed the hot pants and bra that somehow, SOMEHOW managed to be heinously unflattering on her 20-year-old perfect body, and suddenly, watching her dance with teddy bears and twerk at Beetlejuice, I didn't give a single fuck why or how this monstrosity came into existence, I was merely glad that it had. Well-trolled, young Cyrus, well-trolled.
The interesting thing is that if you view it without the cultural filter that anticipates sincerity, it comes across as a very effective weird and creepy parody of the Hollywood sex-sells ethos, right down to the blatant objectification of black women and what appear to be pedophilia references (Pedobear, anyone?) If that was intentional, it was beyond brilliant. If it wasn't intentional, it epitomizes everything that is grotesque about pop culture.
Either way is kind of a win, and that means that the VMA served an actual useful purpose.
Granted.
But that purpose was totally lost, on account of the sheer hilarity of the reaction to the event.
And the look on Will Smith's son's face.
My problem is, I can't tell if it's Poe's Law or not. I can't tell if she was just trying too hard, or if she was taking the piss. And this is what fascinates me...Not the message, but whether or not there was a message.
The pedo thing was pretty funny, given her problem with 40 year old male fans.
Grotesque is really the only adjective for it.
I have trouble seeing the positive in it, in part because :vom: but also because I don't think this is going to make anyone rethink their opinions on objectifying women and desperate attention whoring.
The disconnect here seems to be that while you are exactly right about this episode epitomizing the grotesque theatrics of American pop culture, that seems to have flown over the heads of tens of millions of people completely. Here they are all wrapped up in whole industries and lifestyles that revolve around exactly this, but when it loses the thin veil of civilization and they are confronted directly with a naked representation of everything they stand for, they are immediately repulsed and disgusted.
I wonder whether this reaction says more about Miley Cyrus, or about the awkwardly disguised self-disgust at the core of most of our pop culture. Were they were really that offended by Cyrus' performance, or are they just angry that she gave them exactly what they asked for but without that veneer of cheap gloss that separates "art" from plain old blind animalistic hedonism? Maybe the whole thing was too accurate a reflection of what they worship, and they couldn't escape the blatant depiction of their soulless gods.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 27, 2013, 08:56:24 PM
Granted.
But that purpose was totally lost, on account of the sheer hilarity of the reaction to the event.
And the look on Will Smith's son's face.
My problem is, I can't tell if it's Poe's Law or not. I can't tell if she was just trying too hard, or if she was taking the piss. And this is what fascinates me...Not the message, but whether or not there was a message.
The pedo thing was pretty funny, given her problem with 40 year old male fans.
YES OH YES
I can't help but wonder if that what's-his-name, Beetlejuice, was chosen deliberately because he's so much older. And what is up with that suit? Dear lord. It was weird and wonderful and I DON'T CARE whether she was trying too hard or taking the piss, that video is going to be shown in sociology classes all over the world.
Quote from: V3X on August 27, 2013, 08:59:34 PM
The disconnect here seems to be that while you are exactly right about this episode epitomizing the grotesque theatrics of American pop culture, that seems to have flown over the heads of tens of millions of people completely. Here they are all wrapped up in whole industries and lifestyles that revolve around exactly this, but when it loses the thin veil of civilization and they are confronted directly with a naked representation of everything they stand for, they are immediately repulsed and disgusted.
I wonder whether this reaction says more about Miley Cyrus, or about the awkwardly disguised self-disgust at the core of most of our pop culture. Were they were really that offended by Cyrus' performance, or are they just angry that she gave them exactly what they asked for but without that veneer of cheap gloss that separates "art" from plain old blind animalistic hedonism? Maybe the whole thing was too accurate a reflection of what they worship, and they couldn't escape the blatant depiction of their soulless gods.
I KNOW, RIGHT? People everywhere are all OH NOES SHE OBJECTIFIED BLACK WOMEN AND SHE WAS IN A SKIMPY OUTFIT AND SHE WAS IN-YOUR-FACE SEXUAL
...in other words, she did the Hollywood song and dance just like everyone else does. The only thing that was different is that somehow, she managed to show it as it really is; she broke the Hollywood glam filter, and she showed it as dingy and tawdry and exploitative and depressing as it really is, she peeled back the vinyl, and people turned away, sickened.
People are acting like this performance was outrageous... Personally, I fail to see how anything was transgressed.
there was nothing in that performance that you couldn't see on prime time television
But I guess the meaning of the event was not generated by Miley, but by us and how we talk about it.
"The spectacle is not a collection of images; rather, it is a social relationship between people that is mediated by images."
-Guy Debord, The Society of the SpectacleI find it all very weird that this is even a cultural topic, but like Werner Herzog says -
Do not avert your eyes! Quote from: Herzog, on Anna Nicole Smith and Wrestlemania"We should not be sitting in the library and studying it as an academic subject - a poet has to live a real solid pure raw life out there in life itself.... This is what is coming at us. This is what a collective anonymous majority wants to see on television...
It is a vulgarity on one side, but there is some sort of a new image, a new prototype of so-called beauty out there. A comic strip beauty. An utter vulgarity in complete deformities.
And it is very strange how the collective mind creates these kind of fantasies. We have seen ideals of beauty of course in antiquity, we have seen images of beauty in early renaissance time, wonderful Venuses...
[This is] strange and different from antiquity, I'd say... It creates bodies which are completely and utterly gross and deformed. And all of the sudden the deformity becomes the chosen ideal. Do not avert your eyes from it!"
herzog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kl2dFGshro
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on August 27, 2013, 08:57:24 PM
Grotesque is really the only adjective for it.
I have trouble seeing the positive in it, in part because :vom: but also because I don't think this is going to make anyone rethink their opinions on objectifying women and desperate attention whoring.
Having seen the - what the hell do you call butt cankles? - hanging out of her outfit, I am now more inclined to believe this was a farce.
It won't make anyone think, regardless of whether or not it was supposed to do so. But it's still funny.
Side note: One time, I had the "honor" of taking all the other techs from Europe and the USA to a strip club up in Pickering, Ontario (Pickering is basically to Toronto what Whitechapel is to London). Since I hate strip clubs, I just sat there and nursed a beer for a couple of hours. One stripper was working the Texans like a machine designed to extract small bills. When she noticed that I wasn't interested, she suddenly focused on me like getting me interested was a matter of honor or something.
In short, she tried too hard. Too much with the tongue out, and what were apparently supposed to be "come hither" looks. At some point it became ridiculous, and I started laughing my ass off. She called me a "fag", and led one of the Texans off to the VIP room where he was relieved of the rest of his money in exchange for a raging case of blue balls and an outraged sense of thwarted entitlement.
Lesson #1: Not all over the top behavior is parody (intentionally), and
Lesson #2: Texans are
dumb.
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
(http://www.muumuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/rihannamiley.gif)
Rhianna is deeply unimpressed.
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
(http://www.muumuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/rihannamiley.gif)
Rhianna is deeply unimpressed.
1. It's all part of the bit.
2. Rhianna looks deeply amused, to be honest.
At the root of it, Miley Cyrus didn't violate any laws against lewd behavior -- official, cultural or otherwise. She was as distastefully and overtly sexual as we tend to expect in these outings. American pop culture is a weird combination of voyeurism, exhibitionism, and Puratanism that allows for almost any degree of debauchery provided there is no risk of any of the peasants actually getting some of that. That is the chief cultural rule in America: There are Beautiful People, and then there is Everybody else. The beautiful people can do whatever they want, because they are gods. They are untouchable. They can even commit murder in some cases and while they technically may not "get away with it," they remain fixed in the constellation of the American pantheon of demigod celebrities.
The one thing a celebrity can do to fall from grace -- and this is what the current debate is about regarding Miley Cyrus -- is to engage in this kind of obnoxious behavior and fail to keep up the appearance of perfection while doing so. It isn't that Miley Cyrus insulted entire communities of people with her ass, or that she looked like she was trying to mate with anything within arms reach, it was that she didn't look good while she was doing it. She became, visually, a regular person engaging in behavior reserved for the gods.
This is dangerous to everyone. It is dangerous to the "beautiful people" class because it exposes this illusion of the enlightened, beautiful elite for the charlatans they are. And it's dangerous to the peasant class because it could make them wonder why -- if this oafish girl can be up there jiggling away in the national spotlight -- why must they resign themselves to a lifetime of mediocrity and labor supporting these so-called "beautiful" people? And it's dangerous to the entertainment industry because if there's anything an illusionist hates, it's when someone sees the god damn wires.
Quote from: V3X on August 27, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
At the root of it, Miley Cyrus didn't violate any laws against lewd behavior -- official, cultural or otherwise. She was as distastefully and overtly sexual as we tend to expect in these outings. American pop culture is a weird combination of voyeurism, exhibitionism, and Puratanism that allows for almost any degree of debauchery provided there is no risk of any of the peasants actually getting some of that. That is the chief cultural rule in America: There are Beautiful People, and then there is Everybody else. The beautiful people can do whatever they want, because they are gods. They are untouchable. They can even commit murder in some cases and while they technically may not "get away with it," they remain fixed in the constellation of the American pantheon of demigod celebrities.
The one thing a celebrity can do to fall from grace -- and this is what the current debate is about regarding Miley Cyrus -- is to engage in this kind of obnoxious behavior and fail to keep up the appearance of perfection while doing so. It isn't that Miley Cyrus insulted entire communities of people with her ass, or that she looked like she was trying to mate with anything within arms reach, it was that she didn't look good while she was doing it. She became, visually, a regular person engaging in behavior reserved for the gods.
This is dangerous to everyone. It is dangerous to the "beautiful people" class because it exposes this illusion of the enlightened, beautiful elite for the charlatans they are. And it's dangerous to the peasant class because it could make them wonder why -- if this oafish girl can be up there jiggling away in the national spotlight -- why must they resign themselves to a lifetime of mediocrity and labor supporting these so-called "beautiful" people? And it's dangerous to the entertainment industry because if there's anything an illusionist hates, it's when someone sees the god damn wires.
SOLVED.
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because this has to be his fault, somehow? :?
"Butt-cankles" :lulz:
That outfit was what flipped me over from "holy shit this is embarrassing" to "Is she trolling?" because how does a 20-year-old with a perfect body even FIND something that unflattering? Let alone one with the budget she has.
Also, she is perfectly capable of singing well, but that was terrible as fuck.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:06:19 PM
"Butt-cankles" :lulz:
That outfit was what flipped me over from "holy shit this is embarrassing" to "Is she trolling?" because how does a 20-year-old with a perfect body even FIND something that unflattering? Let alone one with the budget she has.
Also, she is perfectly capable of singing well, but that was terrible as fuck.
I am more and more leaning towards "troll".
I mean, her career was sort of stalling at altitude, so why not?
Quote from: V3X on August 27, 2013, 10:01:00 PM
At the root of it, Miley Cyrus didn't violate any laws against lewd behavior -- official, cultural or otherwise. She was as distastefully and overtly sexual as we tend to expect in these outings. American pop culture is a weird combination of voyeurism, exhibitionism, and Puratanism that allows for almost any degree of debauchery provided there is no risk of any of the peasants actually getting some of that. That is the chief cultural rule in America: There are Beautiful People, and then there is Everybody else. The beautiful people can do whatever they want, because they are gods. They are untouchable. They can even commit murder in some cases and while they technically may not "get away with it," they remain fixed in the constellation of the American pantheon of demigod celebrities.
The one thing a celebrity can do to fall from grace -- and this is what the current debate is about regarding Miley Cyrus -- is to engage in this kind of obnoxious behavior and fail to keep up the appearance of perfection while doing so. It isn't that Miley Cyrus insulted entire communities of people with her ass, or that she looked like she was trying to mate with anything within arms reach, it was that she didn't look good while she was doing it. She became, visually, a regular person engaging in behavior reserved for the gods.
This is dangerous to everyone. It is dangerous to the "beautiful people" class because it exposes this illusion of the enlightened, beautiful elite for the charlatans they are. And it's dangerous to the peasant class because it could make them wonder why -- if this oafish girl can be up there jiggling away in the national spotlight -- why must they resign themselves to a lifetime of mediocrity and labor supporting these so-called "beautiful" people? And it's dangerous to the entertainment industry because if there's anything an illusionist hates, it's when someone sees the god damn wires.
Wow, Vex, you're on a ROLL today!
I still say the entire thing was justified by the looks on Will Smith's familys' faces.
Especially his son.
ETA: Smith himself turned into ECH for a second or two.
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
Why would he? :? He was just a stage prop for her performance.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 27, 2013, 10:08:11 PM
I still say the entire thing was justified by the looks on Will Smith's familys' faces.
Especially his son.
ETA: Smith himself turned into ECH for a second or two.
:lulz: Almost makes me want to watch it again.
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 27, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Now I have to watch this. There is a trend, here, and I now think this was deliberately planned.
:lol: confession: I've been listening to Blurred Lines on a loop today. Hadn't heard it before yesterday. It's catchy. ((I also feel its inspired by Toe Jam by David Byrne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxtDxxZZy0s), which may be why I like it))
And I could be wrong, but my interpretation of the lyrics is that it's about a girl who is making her controlling boyfriend jealous by going crazy and dancing with the narrator at a party.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 27, 2013, 10:21:47 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 27, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Now I have to watch this. There is a trend, here, and I now think this was deliberately planned.
After watching it I have gone from 50% to 98% convinced that Cyrus' performance was satire.
This was an interesting article on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/was-miley-cyruss-vma-performance-a-failed-blurred-lines-criticism/279062/
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 27, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Yup. I'm saying for this particular thing, the focus seems to be on Ms Cyrus' butt.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:48:36 PM
This was an interesting article on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/was-miley-cyruss-vma-performance-a-failed-blurred-lines-criticism/279062/
interesting...
this quote kind of sums up my feels about it all..
QuoteThere are other reasons why the performance makes audiences cringe: For some, the age difference--she's 20 and getting called a slut, while he's 36, has a family, and is mostly getting off the hook--makes their interplay feel exploitative, even if she's initiating. To others, the aggressive degree to which she did initiate contact seemed like less-than-consensual activity instead of a playful move to level the playing field. And then there's Cyrus's troubling appropriation of black culture that pervades her album's promotional campaign despite mounting criticism of it.
So, a woman couldn't plan something like this all by herself?
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 27, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Yup. I'm saying for this particular thing, the focus seems to be on Ms Cyrus' butt.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:48:36 PM
This was an interesting article on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/was-miley-cyruss-vma-performance-a-failed-blurred-lines-criticism/279062/
interesting...
this quote kind of sums up my feels about it all..
QuoteThere are other reasons why the performance makes audiences cringe: For some, the age difference--she's 20 and getting called a slut, while he's 36, has a family, and is mostly getting off the hook--makes their interplay feel exploitative, even if she's initiating. To others, the aggressive degree to which she did initiate contact seemed like less-than-consensual activity instead of a playful move to level the playing field. And then there's Cyrus's troubling appropriation of black culture that pervades her album's promotional campaign despite mounting criticism of it.
I stand by what I said earlier about her primary infraction being related to looking sloppy. Sure, she's being called all kinds of offensive names
now, but that's because people in general (and popular media in particular) lack the eloquence and vocabulary -- not to mention the awareness -- to say what it is they're really thinking. Nobody objects to Miley Cyrus acting like a mindless sex robot. I mean really -- what do people think her
job is in the first place? To be a singer? HA! Her entire purpose for existence within the context of pop culture is to be an unattainable, physically "perfect" hyper-sexualized icon of "what you should be but never will be."
No, she's being called a "slut" because that's what you call a prole who dares to have (or even suggest having) sex like a celebrity, not because someone somewhere thinks that she ought to act more like a "lady".
Not that this is any excuse for using that kind of offensive language. I just think the main difference here between the flak she's getting an the flak Robin Thicke isn't getting isn't her gender, it's her failure to pull it off glamorously.
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
so I spent like the last 20 min reading article after article about this song --- I was totally unaware of the amount of dialog surrounding it! Both Robin Thicke and the director had interesting comments (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/blurred-lines-director-diane-martel_n_3509359.html). Yeah, what a dickbag!
still stuck in my head though
Quotethis quote kind of sums up my feels about it all..
QuoteThere are other reasons why the performance makes audiences cringe: For some, the age difference--she's 20 and getting called a slut, while he's 36, has a family, and is mostly getting off the hook--makes their interplay feel exploitative, even if she's initiating. To others, the aggressive degree to which she did initiate contact seemed like less-than-consensual activity instead of a playful move to level the playing field. And then there's Cyrus's troubling appropriation of black culture that pervades her album's promotional campaign despite mounting criticism of it.
eh, I think their age difference would be relevant if they were having sex, but it's two of this year's pop stars dancing together. If it reminds people of some kind of irresponsible sexuality, are we angry at the performance or what it symbolizes?
My reading of this performance is more along the lines of a debutante ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debutante)
as for the appropriating black culture thing, I'm not on that page - in the long run, stuff like dance and music helps unify groups. We do that little service by treating shared experiences like private property. We can't take these living collective ideas and freeze them in amber and protect them with racial fences so they don't spread or change. Replication is the highest form of flattery, and in the long run, it's how the Other becomes something you recognize as similar to you.
I dunno, I can see why some people are angry at miley, but I do get this "she should act more white" or "she's acting too black" message in some of the dialog... I think it's getting carried away. Was Elvis racist? Would it really be better if white performers drew no inspiration from black performers? How should we define each race's limitations on how they should sing and dance? Who owns twerking and how does it get passed on? Can I get some of that? When will it be okay for me to twerk?
I need to know because I'm attending a wedding.
btw, liked this article: http://kimboekbinder.tumblr.com/post/59490908152/miley-cyrus-is-brilliant
relevant snip:
QuoteMiley Cyrus doesn't want our acceptance, she only wants our attention. In this scene we are her parents and she is the rebelling teenager. She took the stage half-naked, but it was the kind of half-naked that has been sanctioned for young girls. The totally ok half-naked. Then, to be really shocking, she stripped to the other kind of half-naked - the half-naked that has not been sanctioned for young girls. And she danced with the most disgusting man she could find. The kind of man that her public (read: parents) would never approve of. And the whole show is so obvious, so badly orchestrated, so boring, that I can't believe that I am even writing this, but her show transcended its own mediocrity somehow to become the kind of spectacle it was trying so desperately to be.
Growing up in public must be hard, because growing up is hard to do under any circumstance. Maybe Miley Cyrus is actually having a breakdown. And if she is, my heart goes out to her, but only a little bit. Because I have breakdowns too. But I don't get to monetize mine.
No, I don't think Miley Cyrus is hurting. And I don't think she's harming either. She's a brilliant young women using her sexuality in the exact way she has been taught to, to build a career and a life for herself in a world that only cares about how many clicks you're worth.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 11:59:00 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
so I spent like the last 20 min reading article after article about this song --- I was totally unaware of the amount of dialog surrounding it! Both Robin Thicke and the director had interesting comments (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/blurred-lines-director-diane-martel_n_3509359.html). Yeah, what a dickbag!
still stuck in my head though
Quotethis quote kind of sums up my feels about it all..
QuoteThere are other reasons why the performance makes audiences cringe: For some, the age difference--she's 20 and getting called a slut, while he's 36, has a family, and is mostly getting off the hook--makes their interplay feel exploitative, even if she's initiating. To others, the aggressive degree to which she did initiate contact seemed like less-than-consensual activity instead of a playful move to level the playing field. And then there's Cyrus's troubling appropriation of black culture that pervades her album's promotional campaign despite mounting criticism of it.
eh, I think their age difference would be relevant if they were having sex, but it's two of this year's pop stars dancing together. If it reminds people of some kind of irresponsible sexuality, are we angry at the performance or what it symbolizes?
My reading of this performance is more along the lines of a debutante ball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debutante)
as for the appropriating black culture thing, I'm not on that page - in the long run, stuff like dance and music helps unify groups. We do that little service by treating shared experiences like private property. We can't take these living collective ideas and freeze them in amber and protect them with racial fences so they don't spread or change. Replication is the highest form of flattery, and in the long run, it's how the Other becomes something you recognize as similar to you.
I dunno, I can see why some people are angry at miley, but I do get this "she should act more white" or "she's acting too black" message in some of the dialog... I think it's getting carried away. Was Elvis racist? Would it really be better if white performers drew no inspiration from black performers? How should we define each race's limitations on how they should sing and dance? Who owns twerking and how does it get passed on? Can I get some of that? When will it be okay for me to twerk?
I need to know because I'm attending a wedding.
it's not that "she's acting too black" it's that as a rich white girl she can put it on and take it off like a dress or whatever, whereas the black feminists I have been reading suggest that playing at being "ghetto" or "ratchet" for Mildred Cyrus, it's exotic and rebellious but they would just be seen in a totally negative and racist light for doing the exact same shit.
that's the short form of the critique along the lines of cultural appropriation anyhoo.
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
if it was satire, then I'm cool with it. if Cyrus actually opens her mouth and talks about "blurred lines" and the satire of this performance, or the cultural appropriation concerns i'd feel a lot better about the whole deal.
Cyrus has been criticised for this before though, and there hasn't been a real response.
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:28:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
if it was satire, then I'm cool with it. if Cyrus actually opens her mouth and talks about "blurred lines" and the satire of this performance, or the cultural appropriation concerns i'd feel a lot better about the whole deal.
Cyrus has been criticised for this before though, and there hasn't been a real response.
Personally, I hope she never says a word. It's more fun that way...Tearing back the vinyl would ruin it.
Thing is, it's SO over the top, I have trouble believing it's genuine. And, realistically, I can't see her agent letting her wear those briefs, unless this was INTENDED to be the end of her pop career, and the start of something horrible.
Plus, she completely upstaged Lady Gaga, which is no small accomplishment.
Also, consider this: "Twerking" is RUINED FOREVER.
So is the standard parade o' bits. Anyone who tries this stuff from now on will be compared to Miley Cyrus.
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
But that was her spotlight. Not saying he doesn't deserve flack for his own artistic projects, but in what way is HE responsible for HER trainwreck, when he was a hilariously passive recipient? Even if it's 100% sincere, I am not liking the "WHY IS NOBODY FOCUSING ON THE GUY" sentiment people are expressing, because it really just wasn't his show and it REEKS of unconscious paternalism. Why, he's 36 and male... she's just a lil ole 20 year old girl. No way a little thing like that came up with this trainwreck all by herself, he should get the blame too!
Like I said...
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
Why would he? :? He was just a stage prop for her performance.
I think people are giving the manufactured Disney princess way too much credit saying what she did was satire.
Quote from: V3X on August 27, 2013, 11:23:12 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2013, 10:03:36 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
why do you think he should be getting flack?
Because he's an asshole who is basically a walking rape joke. :shudder:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 27, 2013, 10:15:39 PM
Pixie: Beetlejuice was Robin Thicke, and he IS getting a lot of shit for his video "Blurred Lines" which is also pretty horrible, from a "isn't this what America wanted" POV.
Yup. I'm saying for this particular thing, the focus seems to be on Ms Cyrus' butt.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:48:36 PM
This was an interesting article on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/was-miley-cyruss-vma-performance-a-failed-blurred-lines-criticism/279062/
interesting...
this quote kind of sums up my feels about it all..
QuoteThere are other reasons why the performance makes audiences cringe: For some, the age difference--she's 20 and getting called a slut, while he's 36, has a family, and is mostly getting off the hook--makes their interplay feel exploitative, even if she's initiating. To others, the aggressive degree to which she did initiate contact seemed like less-than-consensual activity instead of a playful move to level the playing field. And then there's Cyrus's troubling appropriation of black culture that pervades her album's promotional campaign despite mounting criticism of it.
I stand by what I said earlier about her primary infraction being related to looking sloppy. Sure, she's being called all kinds of offensive names now, but that's because people in general (and popular media in particular) lack the eloquence and vocabulary -- not to mention the awareness -- to say what it is they're really thinking. Nobody objects to Miley Cyrus acting like a mindless sex robot. I mean really -- what do people think her job is in the first place? To be a singer? HA! Her entire purpose for existence within the context of pop culture is to be an unattainable, physically "perfect" hyper-sexualized icon of "what you should be but never will be."
No, she's being called a "slut" because that's what you call a prole who dares to have (or even suggest having) sex like a celebrity, not because someone somewhere thinks that she ought to act more like a "lady".
Not that this is any excuse for using that kind of offensive language. I just think the main difference here between the flak she's getting an the flak Robin Thicke isn't getting isn't her gender, it's her failure to pull it off glamorously.
And again, I think Vex nails it.
People aren't spazzing because her performance was racist, sexist, objectifying, or risque. Those are all expected parts of the Hollywood Spectacle.
It's that she looked too
common.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:37:48 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:28:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
if it was satire, then I'm cool with it. if Cyrus actually opens her mouth and talks about "blurred lines" and the satire of this performance, or the cultural appropriation concerns i'd feel a lot better about the whole deal.
Cyrus has been criticised for this before though, and there hasn't been a real response.
Personally, I hope she never says a word. It's more fun that way...Tearing back the vinyl would ruin it.
Thing is, it's SO over the top, I have trouble believing it's genuine. And, realistically, I can't see her agent letting her wear those briefs, unless this was INTENDED to be the end of her pop career, and the start of something horrible.
Plus, she completely upstaged Lady Gaga, which is no small accomplishment.
haha. it's the problem with the OTT borderline Poe's Law nature of shit like this, it could be utterly biting commentary or a gargantuan fuckup. However the perspectives of the POC online community is something I will take notice of and link to/ attempt to sum up.
the Hannah Montana "she's gonna twist my kids forever" and "but role models" crowd can fuck off, though. if you are looking for role models in mainstream pop culture for your kids then they are looking in the wrong frikkin places. Teach kids about scientists and other people who have actually positively influenced thought and society rather than looking in the sewer.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 01:47:00 AM
Like I said...
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 27, 2013, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Pixie on August 27, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
I don't get how the dude who is singing about date rape and wearing a Beetlejuice suit with her is getting virtually no flack for grinding up on a young woman.
Why would he? :? He was just a stage prop for her performance.
Ok, that's a fair point.
it was more the OMG SHES A MASSIVE SLUT and ignorance of the context of Thicke's track I saw in the everyday "she's ruining our kids" shit that bugs me most.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 28, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
btw, liked this article: http://kimboekbinder.tumblr.com/post/59490908152/miley-cyrus-is-brilliant
relevant snip:
QuoteMiley Cyrus doesn't want our acceptance, she only wants our attention. In this scene we are her parents and she is the rebelling teenager. She took the stage half-naked, but it was the kind of half-naked that has been sanctioned for young girls. The totally ok half-naked. Then, to be really shocking, she stripped to the other kind of half-naked - the half-naked that has not been sanctioned for young girls. And she danced with the most disgusting man she could find. The kind of man that her public (read: parents) would never approve of. And the whole show is so obvious, so badly orchestrated, so boring, that I can't believe that I am even writing this, but her show transcended its own mediocrity somehow to become the kind of spectacle it was trying so desperately to be.
Growing up in public must be hard, because growing up is hard to do under any circumstance. Maybe Miley Cyrus is actually having a breakdown. And if she is, my heart goes out to her, but only a little bit. Because I have breakdowns too. But I don't get to monetize mine.
No, I don't think Miley Cyrus is hurting. And I don't think she's harming either. She's a brilliant young women using her sexuality in the exact way she has been taught to, to build a career and a life for herself in a world that only cares about how many clicks you're worth.
Yeah, saw that article earlier. Boekbinder is rad.
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:51:09 AM
haha. it's the problem with the OTT borderline Poe's Law nature of shit like this, it could be utterly biting commentary or a gargantuan fuckup.
Either way, the net effect is positive.
She took the standard misogynist stage act and made it HORRIBLE FOREVER.
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:28:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
if it was satire, then I'm cool with it. if Cyrus actually opens her mouth and talks about "blurred lines" and the satire of this performance, or the cultural appropriation concerns i'd feel a lot better about the whole deal.
Cyrus has been criticised for this before though, and there hasn't been a real response.
Nope. I don't usually go back and explain my trolls, either. :lulz:
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 01:52:18 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 28, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
btw, liked this article: http://kimboekbinder.tumblr.com/post/59490908152/miley-cyrus-is-brilliant
relevant snip:
QuoteMiley Cyrus doesn't want our acceptance, she only wants our attention. In this scene we are her parents and she is the rebelling teenager. She took the stage half-naked, but it was the kind of half-naked that has been sanctioned for young girls. The totally ok half-naked. Then, to be really shocking, she stripped to the other kind of half-naked - the half-naked that has not been sanctioned for young girls. And she danced with the most disgusting man she could find. The kind of man that her public (read: parents) would never approve of. And the whole show is so obvious, so badly orchestrated, so boring, that I can't believe that I am even writing this, but her show transcended its own mediocrity somehow to become the kind of spectacle it was trying so desperately to be.
Growing up in public must be hard, because growing up is hard to do under any circumstance. Maybe Miley Cyrus is actually having a breakdown. And if she is, my heart goes out to her, but only a little bit. Because I have breakdowns too. But I don't get to monetize mine.
No, I don't think Miley Cyrus is hurting. And I don't think she's harming either. She's a brilliant young women using her sexuality in the exact way she has been taught to, to build a career and a life for herself in a world that only cares about how many clicks you're worth.
Yeah, saw that article earlier. Boekbinder is rad.
Kim's point about sexuality and clicks and such is spot on. people complain about music artists (especially young women) being too sexed up for the kids. But that is the way the game is rigged and I honestly don't see enough criticism of that tendency within the hollywood and mainstream music scene
Quote from: NEVER FEAR LOVE! on August 28, 2013, 01:50:00 AM
I think people are giving the manufactured Disney princess way too much credit saying what she did was satire.
just because something is manufactured and such doesn't mean she's an eejit though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:53:33 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:51:09 AM
haha. it's the problem with the OTT borderline Poe's Law nature of shit like this, it could be utterly biting commentary or a gargantuan fuckup.
Either way, the net effect is positive.
She took the standard misogynist stage act and made it HORRIBLE FOREVER.
YES! this is something to be positive about.
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:56:46 AM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 01:52:18 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 28, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
btw, liked this article: http://kimboekbinder.tumblr.com/post/59490908152/miley-cyrus-is-brilliant
relevant snip:
QuoteMiley Cyrus doesn't want our acceptance, she only wants our attention. In this scene we are her parents and she is the rebelling teenager. She took the stage half-naked, but it was the kind of half-naked that has been sanctioned for young girls. The totally ok half-naked. Then, to be really shocking, she stripped to the other kind of half-naked - the half-naked that has not been sanctioned for young girls. And she danced with the most disgusting man she could find. The kind of man that her public (read: parents) would never approve of. And the whole show is so obvious, so badly orchestrated, so boring, that I can't believe that I am even writing this, but her show transcended its own mediocrity somehow to become the kind of spectacle it was trying so desperately to be.
Growing up in public must be hard, because growing up is hard to do under any circumstance. Maybe Miley Cyrus is actually having a breakdown. And if she is, my heart goes out to her, but only a little bit. Because I have breakdowns too. But I don't get to monetize mine.
No, I don't think Miley Cyrus is hurting. And I don't think she's harming either. She's a brilliant young women using her sexuality in the exact way she has been taught to, to build a career and a life for herself in a world that only cares about how many clicks you're worth.
Yeah, saw that article earlier. Boekbinder is rad.
Kim's point about sexuality and clicks and such is spot on. people complain about music artists (especially young women) being too sexed up for the kids. But that is the way the game is rigged and I honestly don't see enough criticism of that tendency within the hollywood and mainstream music scene
Quote from: NEVER FEAR LOVE! on August 28, 2013, 01:50:00 AM
I think people are giving the manufactured Disney princess way too much credit saying what she did was satire.
just because something is manufactured and such doesn't mean she's an eejit though.
It's a woman in question, so of COURSE RWHN thinks she's stupid.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 01:56:27 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:28:18 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
What if it was satire? Is it still wrong?
if it was satire, then I'm cool with it. if Cyrus actually opens her mouth and talks about "blurred lines" and the satire of this performance, or the cultural appropriation concerns i'd feel a lot better about the whole deal.
Cyrus has been criticised for this before though, and there hasn't been a real response.
Nope. I don't usually go back and explain my trolls, either. :lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:57:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:53:33 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:51:09 AM
haha. it's the problem with the OTT borderline Poe's Law nature of shit like this, it could be utterly biting commentary or a gargantuan fuckup.
Either way, the net effect is positive.
She took the standard misogynist stage act and made it HORRIBLE FOREVER.
YES! this is something to be positive about.
There's going to be a WHOLE LOT of producers shifting their lazy asses, trying to find a new bit.
That alone makes everything worthwhile. Expect some HILARITY as 3/5 attempts crash and burn.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:58:00 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:56:46 AM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 01:52:18 AM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 28, 2013, 12:01:22 AM
btw, liked this article: http://kimboekbinder.tumblr.com/post/59490908152/miley-cyrus-is-brilliant
relevant snip:
QuoteMiley Cyrus doesn't want our acceptance, she only wants our attention. In this scene we are her parents and she is the rebelling teenager. She took the stage half-naked, but it was the kind of half-naked that has been sanctioned for young girls. The totally ok half-naked. Then, to be really shocking, she stripped to the other kind of half-naked - the half-naked that has not been sanctioned for young girls. And she danced with the most disgusting man she could find. The kind of man that her public (read: parents) would never approve of. And the whole show is so obvious, so badly orchestrated, so boring, that I can't believe that I am even writing this, but her show transcended its own mediocrity somehow to become the kind of spectacle it was trying so desperately to be.
Growing up in public must be hard, because growing up is hard to do under any circumstance. Maybe Miley Cyrus is actually having a breakdown. And if she is, my heart goes out to her, but only a little bit. Because I have breakdowns too. But I don't get to monetize mine.
No, I don't think Miley Cyrus is hurting. And I don't think she's harming either. She's a brilliant young women using her sexuality in the exact way she has been taught to, to build a career and a life for herself in a world that only cares about how many clicks you're worth.
Yeah, saw that article earlier. Boekbinder is rad.
Kim's point about sexuality and clicks and such is spot on. people complain about music artists (especially young women) being too sexed up for the kids. But that is the way the game is rigged and I honestly don't see enough criticism of that tendency within the hollywood and mainstream music scene
Quote from: NEVER FEAR LOVE! on August 28, 2013, 01:50:00 AM
I think people are giving the manufactured Disney princess way too much credit saying what she did was satire.
just because something is manufactured and such doesn't mean she's an eejit though.
It's a woman in question, so of COURSE RWHN thinks she's stupid.
yea. I forgot I'd sent the fucker to Coventry for that kind of shit. Oops.
teenage girls are too often written off as shallow or stupid in a culture that tells them how to look, how to behave and sends so much bullshit baggage their way. There are many passionate, intelligent, switched on teen girls and young women and the ones that I know I am proud to know.
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 02:06:48 AM
yea. I forgot I'd sent the fucker to Coventry for that kind of shit. Oops.
teenage girls are too often written off as shallow or stupid in a culture that tells them how to look, how to behave and sends so much bullshit baggage their way. There are many passionate, intelligent, switched on teen girls and young women and the ones that I know I am proud to know.
Also, some of the most viciously witty people I know are aged 17 (my daughter) to 25 (Sister Gothique).
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 02:08:34 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 02:06:48 AM
yea. I forgot I'd sent the fucker to Coventry for that kind of shit. Oops.
teenage girls are too often written off as shallow or stupid in a culture that tells them how to look, how to behave and sends so much bullshit baggage their way. There are many passionate, intelligent, switched on teen girls and young women and the ones that I know I am proud to know.
Also, some of the most viciously witty people I know are aged 17 (my daughter) to 25 (Sister Gothique).
yup.
as for the ones that haven't twigged yet how the game for them is rigged, i won't hear any crap spoken about them either, unless they are being assholes. I prefer the gentle approach and attempting to make them see a different perspective.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 01:53:33 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 01:51:09 AM
haha. it's the problem with the OTT borderline Poe's Law nature of shit like this, it could be utterly biting commentary or a gargantuan fuckup.
Either way, the net effect is positive.
She took the standard misogynist stage act and made it HORRIBLE FOREVER.
:lulz: Which is AWESOME.
Wow, great perspectives on said trainwreck. Thanks.
Also, that was epic, Vex. Well done :lol:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 02:08:34 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 02:06:48 AM
yea. I forgot I'd sent the fucker to Coventry for that kind of shit. Oops.
teenage girls are too often written off as shallow or stupid in a culture that tells them how to look, how to behave and sends so much bullshit baggage their way. There are many passionate, intelligent, switched on teen girls and young women and the ones that I know I am proud to know.
Also, some of the most viciously witty people I know are aged 17 (my daughter) to 25 (Sister Gothique).
My daughter's been clowning around the house like that since sixth grade or so. Nigel's got the right of it, it's a troll. Even if all Miley got was Billy Ray's brain, she KNOWS the over-the-top shit with the nonstop Gene Simmons tongue isn't
alluring.
And it IS great. IT'S THE MUSIC AWARDS SHOW AMERICA DESERVES. :lulz:
Quote from: Telarus on August 28, 2013, 03:16:48 AM
Wow, great perspectives on said trainwreck. Thanks.
Also, that was epic, Vex. Well done :lol:
Thanks. I don't know where it came from.
Quote from: stelz on August 28, 2013, 03:53:35 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 28, 2013, 02:08:34 AM
Quote from: Pixie on August 28, 2013, 02:06:48 AM
yea. I forgot I'd sent the fucker to Coventry for that kind of shit. Oops.
teenage girls are too often written off as shallow or stupid in a culture that tells them how to look, how to behave and sends so much bullshit baggage their way. There are many passionate, intelligent, switched on teen girls and young women and the ones that I know I am proud to know.
Also, some of the most viciously witty people I know are aged 17 (my daughter) to 25 (Sister Gothique).
My daughter's been clowning around the house like that since sixth grade or so. Nigel's got the right of it, it's a troll. Even if all Miley got was Billy Ray's brain, she KNOWS the over-the-top shit with the nonstop Gene Simmons tongue isn't alluring.
And it IS great. IT'S THE MUSIC AWARDS SHOW AMERICA DESERVES. :lulz:
Yeah this, too. And even if she didn't
mean to troll, even if it wasn't intentional parody, it has had the same effect for many people. I've seen loads of people asking, "is pop culture a sham?" and pining, "I wish artists would just focus more on their art and less on their latex!"
Wait, no I haven't. I've seen a lot of people talking about how awful and desperate she looked.
And buying her records, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zbxM4EehE
Someone wrote a song about it.
Quote from: Sita on August 28, 2013, 04:55:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zbxM4EehE
Someone wrote a song about it.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
That about sums it up.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 27, 2013, 10:08:11 PM
I still say the entire thing was justified by the looks on Will Smith's familys' faces.
Especially his son.
ETA: Smith himself turned into ECH for a second or two.
:hustle:
:lulz:
FTR I find Robin Thicke funny as hell. People spazzing out and going "OMGZZRAEPCULTURE!!" are 90% of the reason. Watch the video. I mean actually watch it, not just sit there screaming "objectifying women!" at it until it goes away. What do you actually see? Those chicks are hot. Way hot. And they know it. And Thicke and his mate aint getting any of it but they're convinced they are. So much so the whole song is bragging about it. Cracks me up every time.
They're still trying to figure out what happened. I love reading reviews of this from people who are just as involved in that Hollywood spectacle: Brooke Shields with "I think it's just a little desperate... trying so, so hard." HAVE YOU *SEEN* HOLLYWOOD?
"That young lady who is 20, is obviously deeply troubled, deeply disturbed, clearly has confidence issues, probably eating disorder and I don't think anybody should have put her on stage. That was disgusting and embarrassing."
"That was not attractive. That was not fun. That was not funny. That was really, really bad for anybody who's younger and impressionable and she's really messed up."
(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mika+Brzezinski+2012+Winter+TCA+Tour+Day+4+r6jKOEpEd_Ax.jpg)
So much of the criticism boils down to "This is NOT ART because it makes me FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE". I'm still interested in the criticisms of her running into some trouble with behaviour towards people of colour, but am also keeping in mind that (as far as the chronology of my exposure to criticisms) these issues were raised after the kneejerk "she's a slut" fell over.
-
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
So far, the only post on Miley Cyrus that has not made me want to punch myself in the balls, apart from the ones on this site, is the one by Richard Seymour (http://www.leninology.com/2013/08/a-post-about-miley-cyrus.html):
Quote2) There are three types of reaction. The dominant reaction which is evident on Youtube, CNN, Fox, in the outrage of Robin Thicke's mother, and in endless commentary about how Cyrus's eroticised dance with Thicke was done despite knowing he had a 3 year old daughter and a wife, etc. (Innocence horribly shattered, irreparably stained, killed to bits.) And also, as Fox pundits insisted (protesting too much), this dance was "not attractive, Miley". Basically, the dominant reaction of the media was to "slut-shame" her.
3) The other types of reaction are, a) the denunciations of the "slut-shaming", and b) the leftist and anti-racist critique along the lines that Miley Cyrus should not be shamed, but her dance was a type of minstrelsy, a patronising and degrading appropriation of black culture which reinforced the traditional racist notion of the 'black jezebel'. (A good example of this here, although it specifically uses the term 'misappropriation'.)
4) The intriguing thing about the language of 'appropriation' is that it leads to a terrible logjam of incoherence. Since few want to explicitly buy into a racial metaphysics, and no one wants to believe that culture is neatly segregated according to 'race', nationality, etc., the claim of 'appropriation' cannot be sustained. Culture is an open-ended process of cooperative creation, not a thing with definite, imporous boundaries. Cultural forms are not coherent, and their edges are more like shifting weather fronts than the neat, static lines of maps. They do not have an author; far less could their author be a certain 'race' or nationality somehow embodied. Cultural forms do not have an origin, a once-upon-a-time, and the search for origins is a sure route to absurdity. (If you doubt me, check this out). The notion that a representative of one culture can appropriate from another, each corresponding to a certain racial belonging, seems implausible outside the framework of a metaphysics of race.
It's worth reading the whole thing, though. He makes an interesting point, not raised here (I think - I read this along with my first coffee of the day) that there may well be a racial aspect to the rightwing reaction to the video.
This hits exactly why I find the argument against "appropriation" to be 10% good intentions and 90% bullshit. By telling someone they aren't allowed to behave in some way that's definitive or characteristic of a specific race (or gender, or religion, or sexual orientation, or whatever) -- as if that isn't offensive in and of itself -- that certain behaviors or lifestyles or fashions belong to certain groups, that those groups "own" those cultural expressions, and that you can't go blurring the lines (between black and white, say) because then you're "stealing." But really what you're saying is "you can't act that way, because if a bunch of white people act like black people, then it'll become too hard for me to pigeonhole black people."
-
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2013, 04:21:26 PM
Yes, I felt it was a very succint rebuttal as well.
ICWHUTUDIDTHRR
Yeah, I disagree with the "appropriation" criticism, while at the same time agreeing with the objectification of black women criticism. Because it absolutely did, to a pretty profound degree, and I have a hard time believing it was accidental. "Let's see, I think we need 20 black dancers with big butts to twerk in the background while being mounted by teddy bears" um...
The entire thing seemed to be about objectification. Not about having fun partying, which is what the song is (ostensibly) about. And the music video appears to be entirely a mockery of bad selfies party girls post on the internet.
Maybe I'm giving Cyrus too much credit, but I don't actually think she's dumb, and she has stated that this project is the first one she's had complete control over... and that she had a hard time getting the video funded, to the point where she stopped telling people what it's about in order to get the funding.
I have probably spent toooo much time thinking about this and watching Miley Cyrus videos and interviews... :lol:
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
I have probably spent toooo much time thinking about this and watching Miley Cyrus videos and interviews... :lol:
Simple test: Was it more time than zero?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 28, 2013, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
I have probably spent toooo much time thinking about this and watching Miley Cyrus videos and interviews... :lol:
Simple test: Was it more time than zero?
YES
I LOSE :horrormirth:
I just can't take this performance seriously enough to get offended by any of it.
It's over-the-top offensive. It's FUNNY AS FUCK.
I'm not even sure GG Allin could have slammed that awards show any better.
Not sure. Kind of want to see what face Will Smith makes when his kids are covered in shit though.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 28, 2013, 08:50:59 PM
Not sure. Kind of want to see what face Will Smith makes when his kids are covered in shit though.
:potd:
I loved it in every conceivable way. Whether or not she was trying to make everyone horribly, horribly :eek:, or not, that's what happened, and that's never not good, even when it's not.
If it was satire and she nailed it perfectly, good for her. If it was something else and she missed epically, good for her. That's fucking art.
The reason why 99% of all art sucks is that 100% of all art sucks, with 1% being something our sick, sad species is hungry for...and boy-fucking-howdy, were we hungry for that thing she did.
That being the case, it behooves the artist not to strive for creating something that falls into that 1% category, but to create every god-damned, god-awful, piece of suck they can possibly imagine; to play the numbers game in the very off chance that something sticks. I could guess at what she was going for there, but anything I could come up with is not nearly as glorious as what I know--she did a thing! She took creative control and pretty clearly didn't succumb to any of those weak-kneed temptations to nix any of her ideas...or even really evaluate them on merit. That in-and-of itself gets a FUCK-YEAH, from this observer.
I had thoughts, but this entire thread said all of them, and much better than I could.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 28, 2013, 09:34:07 PM
I loved it in every conceivable way. Whether or not she was trying to make everyone horribly, horribly :eek:, or not, that's what happened, and that's never not good, even when it's not.
If it was satire and she nailed it perfectly, good for her. If it was something else and she missed epically, good for her. That's fucking art.
The reason why 99% of all art sucks is that 100% of all art sucks, with 1% being something our sick, sad species is hungry for...and boy-fucking-howdy, were we hungry for that thing she did.
That being the case, it behooves the artist not to strive for creating something that falls into that 1% category, but to create every god-damned, god-awful, piece of suck they can possibly imagine, and play the numbers game in the very off chance that something sticks. I could guess at what she was going for there, but anything I could come up with is not nearly as glorious as what I know--she did a thing! She took creative control and pretty clearly didn't succumb to any of those weak-kneed temptations to nix any of her ideas...or even really evaluate them on merit. That in-and-of itself gets a FUCK-YEAH, from this observer.
Thread over. NLDM wins.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 28, 2013, 09:34:07 PM
I loved it in every conceivable way. Whether or not she was trying to make everyone horribly, horribly :eek:, or not, that's what happened, and that's never not good, even when it's not.
If it was satire and she nailed it perfectly, good for her. If it was something else and she missed epically, good for her. That's fucking art.
The reason why 99% of all art sucks is that 100% of all art sucks, with 1% being something our sick, sad species is hungry for...and boy-fucking-howdy, were we hungry for that thing she did.
That being the case, it behooves the artist not to strive for creating something that falls into that 1% category, but to create every god-damned, god-awful, piece of suck they can possibly imagine; to play the numbers game in the very off chance that something sticks. I could guess at what she was going for there, but anything I could come up with is not nearly as glorious as what I know--she did a thing! She took creative control and pretty clearly didn't succumb to any of those weak-kneed temptations to nix any of her ideas...or even really evaluate them on merit. That in-and-of itself gets a FUCK-YEAH, from this observer.
Allright, I agree 100% with this.
Quote from: Cainad on August 28, 2013, 09:45:50 PM
I had thoughts, but this entire thread said all of them, and much better than I could.
Finally watched the actual performance on YouTube.
If she's not trolling, then the end result was so trollish that it doesn't matter. There was nothing in that little spectacle that America wouldn't have gobbled up hook, line, and sinker if she hadn't made the whole thing so incredibly
grotesque.
Deliciously, deliciously grotesque.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 29, 2013, 01:14:18 AM
Deliciously, deliciously grotesque.
It really was, wasn't it? :lol: I found myself kind of loving it in the same way I love weird, horrible SubGenius shit.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 28, 2013, 05:41:03 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 28, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
I have probably spent toooo much time thinking about this and watching Miley Cyrus videos and interviews... :lol:
Simple test: Was it more time than zero?
I've really enjoyed reading this thread, but the above is my general feeling on the subject.
Regarding Blurred Lines, I watched the video with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. My thoughts were that it was actually way less demeaning and exploitative of women than quite a few other music videos. They're naked, sure, but that's not in itself a bad thing. The important thing for me was that it looked like they were having fun. They were just dancing, and dancing to look like they're enjoying themselves instead of dancing in a sexualized manner. It's the polar opposite of what I was used to seeing in videos growing up, with people doing highly choreographed writhing and rubbing themselves for minutes at a time.
I am fascinated by your take on all this, PD.
But I have not watched this video and don't plan to.
Ive gotten rid of.plenty of my filters, I don't mind seeing Miley Cyrus through your seeping, cranky, red and swollen eyes.
Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2013, 01:33:34 AM
I am fascinated by your take on all this, PD.
But I have not watched this video and don't plan to.
Ive gotten rid of.plenty of my filters, I don't mind seeing Miley Cyrus through your seeping, cranky, red and swollen eyes.
Someday, you should watch it. Just because it's a real cultural experience. :lulz:
Quote from: V3X on August 28, 2013, 04:15:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
So far, the only post on Miley Cyrus that has not made me want to punch myself in the balls, apart from the ones on this site, is the one by Richard Seymour (http://www.leninology.com/2013/08/a-post-about-miley-cyrus.html):
Quote2) There are three types of reaction. The dominant reaction which is evident on Youtube, CNN, Fox, in the outrage of Robin Thicke's mother, and in endless commentary about how Cyrus's eroticised dance with Thicke was done despite knowing he had a 3 year old daughter and a wife, etc. (Innocence horribly shattered, irreparably stained, killed to bits.) And also, as Fox pundits insisted (protesting too much), this dance was "not attractive, Miley". Basically, the dominant reaction of the media was to "slut-shame" her.
3) The other types of reaction are, a) the denunciations of the "slut-shaming", and b) the leftist and anti-racist critique along the lines that Miley Cyrus should not be shamed, but her dance was a type of minstrelsy, a patronising and degrading appropriation of black culture which reinforced the traditional racist notion of the 'black jezebel'. (A good example of this here, although it specifically uses the term 'misappropriation'.)
4) The intriguing thing about the language of 'appropriation' is that it leads to a terrible logjam of incoherence. Since few want to explicitly buy into a racial metaphysics, and no one wants to believe that culture is neatly segregated according to 'race', nationality, etc., the claim of 'appropriation' cannot be sustained. Culture is an open-ended process of cooperative creation, not a thing with definite, imporous boundaries. Cultural forms are not coherent, and their edges are more like shifting weather fronts than the neat, static lines of maps. They do not have an author; far less could their author be a certain 'race' or nationality somehow embodied. Cultural forms do not have an origin, a once-upon-a-time, and the search for origins is a sure route to absurdity. (If you doubt me, check this out). The notion that a representative of one culture can appropriate from another, each corresponding to a certain racial belonging, seems implausible outside the framework of a metaphysics of race.
It's worth reading the whole thing, though. He makes an interesting point, not raised here (I think - I read this along with my first coffee of the day) that there may well be a racial aspect to the rightwing reaction to the video.
This hits exactly why I find the argument against "appropriation" to be 10% good intentions and 90% bullshit. By telling someone they aren't allowed to behave in some way that's definitive or characteristic of a specific race (or gender, or religion, or sexual orientation, or whatever) -- as if that isn't offensive in and of itself -- that certain behaviors or lifestyles or fashions belong to certain groups, that those groups "own" those cultural expressions, and that you can't go blurring the lines (between black and white, say) because then you're "stealing." But really what you're saying is "you can't act that way, because if a bunch of white people act like black people, then it'll become too hard for me to pigeonhole black people."
More or less this.
What is "white" music? Pop? Michael Jackson was the king of it. Rock? Oh, that thing that used to be called "Race Music"? I mean, you could make the argument for Heavy Metal, I suppose, since England had a lot to do with that, but would you get all offended if you saw an all black person Heavy Metal band? Is this appropriating white music?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HbF3EAt3ck
Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2013, 01:33:34 AM
I am fascinated by your take on all this, PD.
But I have not watched this video and don't plan to.
Ive gotten rid of.plenty of my filters, I don't mind seeing Miley Cyrus through your seeping, cranky, red and swollen eyes.
You are missing America. With NO FILTERS.
Quote from: Cainad on August 29, 2013, 01:22:27 AM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 29, 2013, 01:14:18 AM
Deliciously, deliciously grotesque.
It really was, wasn't it? :lol: I found myself kind of loving it in the same way I love weird, horrible SubGenius shit.
One of my coworkers subjected me to the whole thing the next day at work (like I said, I have 0 reason for watching the VMAs). My eyebrow was fully raised, and the word in my head was awkward, but talking about it here (something I never thought I would actually talk about other than IRL and in passing) does put it in perspective. Pretty sure it's a full on troll. I seem to recall hearing criticisms against her recently that she was "appropriating black culture." So, again, what is "black culture"? What's off limits to white people, on purely racial grounds? I think twerking (is that ass grinding twerking? I still don't know what twerking is.) is just twerking. Why is twerking something that's black? What make black black?
Okay, so I've been avoiding the Miley Cyrus Incident and Related. I just now watched the video, after reading this thread. And there is no way that she doesn't know exactly what she was doing and that it wasn't all intentional. I agree with the other comments herein. Whatever she did, it made a /real reaction/, it provoked something in people that wasn't just habitual. That's art. I found myself laughing, at how perfectly intentionally bad it all was, at how disgusting and, yes as other people said, grotesque. And how it was essentially sexed out pop music turned up to eleven in every single way. It was like watching Reggie Watts's Fuck Shit Stack music video, except more subtle. She mocked all of pop music in one fell stroke, better than Gaga. Well done.
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
I... do I have to?
Wait. Is Daily Mail. Don't have to. Wheeee!
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 29, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
Wait. Is Daily Mail. Don't have to. Wheeee!
YES YOU FUCKING DO.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/27/article-2403248-1B7D1710000005DC-232_634x639.jpg)
HONEY BOO BOO'S MOTHER. GRINDING.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 05:14:04 AM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 29, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
Wait. Is Daily Mail. Don't have to. Wheeee!
YES YOU FUCKING DO.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/27/article-2403248-1B7D1710000005DC-232_634x639.jpg)
HONEY BOO BOO'S MOTHER. GRINDING.
I got to admit, I'm not up to date on Honey Boo Boo (that is to say, I only have a general idea of what it's about, despite all resistance).
I have no point of comparison here. To be honest, I don't even know who those two people are.
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 29, 2013, 05:21:48 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 05:14:04 AM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 29, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
Wait. Is Daily Mail. Don't have to. Wheeee!
YES YOU FUCKING DO.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/27/article-2403248-1B7D1710000005DC-232_634x639.jpg)
HONEY BOO BOO'S MOTHER. GRINDING.
I got to admit, I'm not up to date on Honey Boo Boo (that is to say, I only have a general idea of what it's about, despite all resistance).
I have no point of comparison here. To be honest, I don't even know who those two people are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHCPh_Ww3yk
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
:lulz: I love those guys. I seriously do. No matter how much TLC is all "laugh at these hicks because they're worse than you" I love them because they take it TO THE WALL every fucking time.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 29, 2013, 06:28:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
:lulz: I love those guys. I seriously do. No matter how much TLC is all "laugh at these hicks because they're worse than you" I love them because they take it TO THE WALL every fucking time.
Yeah, apparently the single biggest expense they've made since receiving their (substantial) paycheck from the show is a new car. Mama puts it all into a savings fund, or so I read in an infoblurb on the Internet once.
But you know, "hur hur stupid fatty hicks. Pass the chips."
The Honey Boo Boo family reminds me of the kid who walks into the cafeteria and everybody starts laughing at him and he just owns it and takes a bow.
My hurried, and only contribution to this mess.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s131/Slesk/my-obama-me_29-08-13_zpsd9c21cb8.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
I HAET YUO ROGAR! :horrormirth:
:argh!: :argh!: :argh!:
Quote from: Cainad on August 29, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 29, 2013, 06:28:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
:lulz: I love those guys. I seriously do. No matter how much TLC is all "laugh at these hicks because they're worse than you" I love them because they take it TO THE WALL every fucking time.
Yeah, apparently the single biggest expense they've made since receiving their (substantial) paycheck from the show is a new car. Mama puts it all into a savings fund, or so I read in an infoblurb on the Internet once.
But you know, "hur hur stupid fatty hicks. Pass the chips."
They got (collectively) just over $40,000 for the whole thing.
And while I accept that Honey Boo Boo is America, I don't find that family to be WALL-worthy. I find them to be something along the lines of stunned chipmunks.
I don't hate them. I just don't want to be America.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on August 28, 2013, 09:34:07 PM
I loved it in every conceivable way. Whether or not she was trying to make everyone horribly, horribly :eek:, or not, that's what happened, and that's never not good, even when it's not.
If it was satire and she nailed it perfectly, good for her. If it was something else and she missed epically, good for her. That's fucking art.
The reason why 99% of all art sucks is that 100% of all art sucks, with 1% being something our sick, sad species is hungry for...and boy-fucking-howdy, were we hungry for that thing she did.
That being the case, it behooves the artist not to strive for creating something that falls into that 1% category, but to create every god-damned, god-awful, piece of suck they can possibly imagine; to play the numbers game in the very off chance that something sticks. I could guess at what she was going for there, but anything I could come up with is not nearly as glorious as what I know--she did a thing! She took creative control and pretty clearly didn't succumb to any of those weak-kneed temptations to nix any of her ideas...or even really evaluate them on merit. That in-and-of itself gets a FUCK-YEAH, from this observer.
I think Ke$ha does this quite a bit as well. She can actually sing, but if she's making money with autotune and dance beats why shoot the goose that lays the golden egg. See also Holly brook turning into skylar grey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_vdc4nc9-Q
VS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxPBrxxaqc
I mean WTF. But hey I'm happy for her. Disregard art, acquire currency.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: Cainad on August 29, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 29, 2013, 06:28:07 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
:lulz: I love those guys. I seriously do. No matter how much TLC is all "laugh at these hicks because they're worse than you" I love them because they take it TO THE WALL every fucking time.
Yeah, apparently the single biggest expense they've made since receiving their (substantial) paycheck from the show is a new car. Mama puts it all into a savings fund, or so I read in an infoblurb on the Internet once.
But you know, "hur hur stupid fatty hicks. Pass the chips."
They got (collectively) just over $40,000 for the whole thing.
And while I accept that Honey Boo Boo is America, I don't find that family to be WALL-worthy. I find them to be something along the lines of stunned chipmunks.
I don't hate them. I just don't want to be America.
Nope, the first couple seasons they got paid peanuts and basically straight-up exploited, but then Mama negotiated for a significant amount more. Not "rich as fuck" more, but "the kids are taken care of" more.
I consider them a damn sight smarter and more real than most Americans™. I've watched a bunch of episodes (RESEARCH, GODDAMMIT) and I'd rather they be America than what we're actually stuck with.
Let me put it this way; the reason the show is so popular is because most Americans feel superior to them. And the reason most Americans feel superior to them is because they're weird. They're weird in a not-pre-rich way.
And they don't give a fuck.
Going back to the idea that twerking is somehow dead because of this: I don't think so. Primarily, because I didn't see Miley doing anything resembling this:
http://vimeo.com/m/16136117
THAT is twerking. Long live Big Freedia!
ETA: Bright flashing lights in that link.
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
If haters gonna hate, as is postulated, then I suppose Miley was doing them a favor, in giving them something to hate.
Ergo, Miley is an altruistic saint.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 07:23:55 AM
Let me put it this way; the reason the show is so popular is because most Americans feel superior to them. And the reason most Americans feel superior to them is because they're weird. They're weird in a not-pre-rich way.
And they don't give a fuck.
well said
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! :lulz:
I kind of want more celebrities to do this. A celebrity imploding once in a while is part of the pop culture cycle, but usually a descent into drugs and crazytown is part of the formula. What if a whole bunch of celebrities went full troll all in a short span of time?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 30, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Going back to the idea that twerking is somehow dead because of this: I don't think so. Primarily, because I didn't see Miley doing anything resembling this:
http://vimeo.com/m/16136117
THAT is twerking. Long live Big Freedia!
Remembering now why I never hit video links.
Nothing like a NOLA bounce show.
Or a seizure before breakfast.
It was my fault, I know not to click links.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 07:23:55 AM
Let me put it this way; the reason the show is so popular is because most Americans feel superior to them. And the reason most Americans feel superior to them is because they're weird. They're weird in a not-pre-rich way.
And they don't give a fuck.
Okay. I can see that. Must take time to re-examine. This is terribly inconvenient, and may cause pain in my nether regions, should I find that I agree.
THANKS A LOT, NIGEL! :argh!:
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
I feel better about my world, now.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 02:38:02 PM
Or a seizure before breakfast.
It was my fault, I know not to click links.
Oh, shit! Sorry Nigel, I know flashing lights are bad for you, but I wasn't aware this would be enough to set it off.
Apologies. And, I'll go edit that post.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 30, 2013, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 07:23:55 AM
Let me put it this way; the reason the show is so popular is because most Americans feel superior to them. And the reason most Americans feel superior to them is because they're weird. They're weird in a not-pre-rich way.
And they don't give a fuck.
Okay. I can see that. Must take time to re-examine. This is terribly inconvenient, and may cause pain in my nether regions, should I find that I agree.
THANKS A LOT, NIGEL! :argh!:
:lulz: :thanks:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 30, 2013, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 02:38:02 PM
Or a seizure before breakfast.
It was my fault, I know not to click links.
Oh, shit! Sorry Nigel, I know flashing lights are bad for you, but I wasn't aware this would be enough to set it off.
Apologies. And, I'll go edit that post.
No worries, just a little dizziness. It's the full-screen rapid flashing/contrast. But like I said, I know better than to click on video links anyway.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 30, 2013, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
I feel better about my world, now.
All of a sudden I love Miley Cyrus. I never gave two shits about her before but that was amazing. :lol:
She's gonna really be something when her prefrontal cortex matures.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 30, 2013, 12:39:38 PM
Going back to the idea that twerking is somehow dead because of this: I don't think so. Primarily, because I didn't see Miley doing anything resembling this:
http://vimeo.com/m/16136117
THAT is twerking. Long live Big Freedia!
ETA: Bright flashing lights in that link.
That's what I tried to say, that she wasn't really twerking.
Then somebody on facebook said that the video I posted wasn't twerking, it was ass-clapping.
You can't tell people anything when they're mis-defining a word. :roll:
Apparently Miley is going to be recording a remix of "Black Skinhead" by Kanye West.
This is a thing that I didn't know existed until now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xuhl6Ji5zHM
Why don't people like Kanye? This is goddamn genius!
Nobody seems to know what twerking really is, and as far as I can tell the term appeared relatively recently (<15 yrs) to describe the dance move formerly known as the booty drop.
-
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:44:11 PM
Apparently Miley is going to be recording a remix of "Black Skinhead" by Kanye West.
This is a thing that I didn't know existed until now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xuhl6Ji5zHM
Why don't people like Kanye? This is goddamn genius!
It is.
And maybe I need to think this through more, but it occurs to me that a lot of people hate Kanye, they hate Miley, they hate Taylor Swift, Nickelback, Bieber, (OK, those last three are justified) etc., etc.
In other words, the ones that droves of people LOATHE are packinging stadiums. The bands that people like and respect are mostly playing clubs, aren't they?
I think hate might be the new sex. It sells.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:49:46 PM
Nobody seems to know what twerking really is, and as far as I can tell the term appeared relatively recently (<15 yrs) to describe the dance move formerly known as the booty drop.
It was explained to me as the booty drop, but with a big enough ass that it "moved by itself". I took this to mean that you need the jelly back there.
Quote from: Cain on August 30, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
So, I finally looked up Blurred Lines on Youtube, only to realise I had seen some of it before.
It came on my TV in my hotel in Naples, and I thought it was some cheap Eurotrash porn, so I changed the channel.
:lulz:
Quote from: stelz on August 30, 2013, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:44:11 PM
Apparently Miley is going to be recording a remix of "Black Skinhead" by Kanye West.
This is a thing that I didn't know existed until now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xuhl6Ji5zHM
Why don't people like Kanye? This is goddamn genius!
It is.
And maybe I need to think this through more, but it occurs to me that a lot of people hate Kanye, they hate Miley, they hate Taylor Swift, Nickelback, Bieber, (OK, those last three are justified) etc., etc.
In other words, the ones that droves of people LOATHE are packinging stadiums. The bands that people like and respect are mostly playing clubs, aren't they?
I think hate might be the new sex. It sells.
That is a million-dollar line, right there.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:38:18 PM
She's gonna really be something when her prefrontal cortex matures.
Step one: Easier on the lipstick, Miley, unless you plan to be an ICP fan from now on.
Quote from: stelz on August 30, 2013, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:49:46 PM
Nobody seems to know what twerking really is, and as far as I can tell the term appeared relatively recently (<15 yrs) to describe the dance move formerly known as the booty drop.
It was explained to me as the booty drop, but with a big enough ass that it "moved by itself". I took this to mean that you need the jelly back there.
I've always taken it to mean "how to dance at a New Orleans Bounce show".
Basically, a whole lot of this: http://vimeo.com/26472195
(Yes, Big Freedia again. She's awesome. I don't think there's any/that much flashy flashy, but it is a music video, so be warned.)
Also this. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Diplo+express+yourself&qpvt=Diplo+express+yourself&FORM=VDRE&adlt=strict#view=detail&mid=A46F1E910C1D4087AE61A46F1E910C1D4087AE61
I love this stuff.
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 30, 2013, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
I feel better about my world, now.
All of a sudden I love Miley Cyrus. I never gave two shits about her before but that was amazing. :lol:
That last picture, on the lower right, is an absolutely GLORIOUS trollface.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 30, 2013, 04:39:07 PM
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 03:38:18 PM
She's gonna really be something when her prefrontal cortex matures.
Step one: Easier on the lipstick, Miley, unless you plan to be an ICP fan from now on.
I feel like that might conceivably be her next move.
:um:
I must do more tests for science to see if all my posts have become invisible.
Quote from: tarod on August 30, 2013, 11:23:57 PM
:um:
I must do more tests for science to see if all my posts have become invisible.
:?
Signs point to yes.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 27, 2013, 11:22:08 PM
So, a woman couldn't plan something like this all by herself?
I approve of what ever you're doing! I reserve to not get involved for I have no self control.
Quote from: V3X on August 27, 2013, 08:59:34 PM
The disconnect here seems to be that while you are exactly right about this episode epitomizing the grotesque theatrics of American pop culture, that seems to have flown over the heads of tens of millions of people completely. Here they are all wrapped up in whole industries and lifestyles that revolve around exactly this, but when it loses the thin veil of civilization and they are confronted directly with a naked representation of everything they stand for, they are immediately repulsed and disgusted.
I wonder whether this reaction says more about Miley Cyrus, or about the awkwardly disguised self-disgust at the core of most of our pop culture. Were they were really that offended by Cyrus' performance, or are they just angry that she gave them exactly what they asked for but without that veneer of cheap gloss that separates "art" from plain old blind animalistic hedonism? Maybe the whole thing was too accurate a reflection of what they worship, and they couldn't escape the blatant depiction of their soulless gods.
MAD FUCKING RESPECT!
Quote from: tarod on August 30, 2013, 11:23:57 PM
:um:
I must do more tests for science to see if all my posts have become invisible.
Did you already predict Miley as a Juggalette? Because, surely, had I seen such delicious prophecy, I would have uttered a squeal of delight and declared you a genius.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2013, 04:58:32 AM
MEANWHILE, IN FLYOVER COUNTRY...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2403248/Here-Comes-Honey-Boo-Boo-Mama-June-downs-shots-grinds-bachelorette-party.html
READ IT. FUCKING READ IT.
DON'T MAKE ME WRITHE IN HORROR ALONE.
I WANNA GET COMMITTED
Quote from: Surprise Happy Endings Whether You Want Them Or Not on August 30, 2013, 01:12:32 PM
(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1175141_321997581280491_1935907516_n.jpg)
<3 HER EVEN MORE!
BUMP for Nigeling purposes
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:49:24 AM
BUMP for Nigeling purposes
DAMN IT NIGEL I HAVE HALF OF BEOWULF TO FUCKING READ BY TUESDAY AND NOW MORE MILEY WHILE I LISTEN TO MILEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 01:54:00 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:49:24 AM
BUMP for Nigeling purposes
DAMN IT NIGEL I HAVE HALF OF BEOWULF TO FUCKING READ BY TUESDAY AND NOW MORE MILEY WHILE I LISTEN TO MILEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
We got ourselves a hipster/for the children puritan.
The post I'm on is public.
Basically the Sinead one.
https://www.facebook.com/sleepsweepers/posts/10200669934819791?comment_id=5111587&offset=0&total_comments=110¬if_t=share_reply
Pretty much I'm using wrestling/carnival lingo to get them to understand.
Yeah they might be related to RWHN.
+1 For 15 year old Nigel Jr. for laughing at the question.
Oh, she thinks those people are unbelievably stupid. :lulz: She is, granted, a whole lot smarter than most people, including me, but she literally just thinks they're beneath the effort of responding because they aren't capable of grasping complex social analysis anyway.
The sad thing is. They'll never know I was the one vouching for them when it came to them hanging out with us. Teeheehee. Bear is a awful awful man.
Quote from: Reverend What's His Bear on October 06, 2013, 06:21:28 AM
The sad thing is. They'll never know I was the one vouching for them when it came to them hanging out with us. Teeheehee. Bear is a awful awful man.
Y U SO MEEN, BAER? :sad:
This one hits it out of the park, and I noted when I brought up this angle before, how Miley was objectifying others with her performance, that everyone here ignored it:
"it seems...that ann magnuson has similar things to say as sinead, just more stream of consciousness and less preachy. that "brilliant" commentary is also riddled with cliches. and that part about hashtags being a means of self prostitution is ridiculous compared to what your run in the mill pop star does to promote him/herself. Miley Cyrus is selling her product more than most in a shameless fashion. Shit, it isn't even original, it's booty shaking. It's a white girl miming a caricature of an increasingly mainstreamed minority subculture and packaging it as "edgy.""
"all i'm saying is that even if miley wanted that performance to go the way it did and those background dancers to be seen in the light they were seen in, it doesn't legitimize her actions or make her a "genius of a troll." Objectification doesn't mean "makes people feel bad about themselves." Objectification means, "causes the viewer to see the performer as an object and not a person." That definitely occurred, no matter what the performer's intentions were. I like to read both sinead's and ann magnuson's comments as statements against the institutionalized marginalization of women in a broader society. It's not about the individual, it's about the institution, and, like you said, it is through discourse that we learn from situations such as this. Discourse, I might add, that Sinead help foster."
So the end game is to make sure all girls are sitting up straight and shutting up?
How the hell do you come to THAT conclusion?
Jesus!
Young woman is not doing things the way YOU think she should.
You are predicting (actively hoping) that she Lohans.
You are discounting and ignoring the fact that she is most likely in control of the weird shit she is doing.
According to you, she isn't in control of herself, and if she is she isn't doing things the way you think she should, and if she isn't doing things the way you think she should she should shut up because her art isn't real and true enough for your tastes, and she is surely going to end up in rehab because of drugs and crazy because she cannot possibly have the support or the fortitude to be a popstar without turning to drugs and losing control of her life.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 12:11:58 AM
This one hits it out of the park, and I noted when I brought up this angle before, how Miley was objectifying others with her performance, that everyone here ignored it:
"it seems...that ann magnuson has similar things to say as sinead, just more stream of consciousness and less preachy. that "brilliant" commentary is also riddled with cliches. and that part about hashtags being a means of self prostitution is ridiculous compared to what your run in the mill pop star does to promote him/herself. Miley Cyrus is selling her product more than most in a shameless fashion. Shit, it isn't even original, it's booty shaking. It's a white girl miming a caricature of an increasingly mainstreamed minority subculture and packaging it as "edgy.""
"all i'm saying is that even if miley wanted that performance to go the way it did and those background dancers to be seen in the light they were seen in, it doesn't legitimize her actions or make her a "genius of a troll." Objectification doesn't mean "makes people feel bad about themselves." Objectification means, "causes the viewer to see the performer as an object and not a person." That definitely occurred, no matter what the performer's intentions were. I like to read both sinead's and ann magnuson's comments as statements against the institutionalized marginalization of women in a broader society. It's not about the individual, it's about the institution, and, like you said, it is through discourse that we learn from situations such as this. Discourse, I might add, that Sinead help foster."
She's a tool using others as mere tools.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 02:38:39 AM
She's a tool using others as mere tools.
/
(http://cdn.grandrivertoys.com/cdn/catalog/product/cache/9/image/700x/602f0fa2c1f0d1ba5e241f914e856ff9/n/4/n47085_xl.jpg)
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 02:38:39 AM
She's a tool using others as mere tools.
Your Brad Pitt hat is showing.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 07, 2013, 02:22:32 AM
Young woman is not doing things the way YOU think she should.
You are predicting (actively hoping) that she Lohans.
You are discounting and ignoring the fact that she is most likely in control of the weird shit she is doing.
According to you, she isn't in control of herself, and if she is she isn't doing things the way you think she should, and if she isn't doing things the way you think she should she should shut up because her art isn't real and true enough for your tastes, and she is surely going to end up in rehab because of drugs and crazy because she cannot possibly have the support or the fortitude to be a popstar without turning to drugs and losing control of her life.
If only she played smooth jazz! :sad:
You can ignore her problems with racial appropriation but that doesn't make them go away:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286
QuoteAll the elements of nu-Cyrus that critics have called foul on in recent weeks were on display: black people used as props (see above), black cultural signifiers like twerking used as a means of connoting that Miley's now wild and dangerous, and little in the way of new or evocative imagery.
I've written about Miley's race problems (or, racism, depending on how you take it), but here's a quick summary: She's gone around telling people she wants to make music that "sounds black," that she likes "hood music" but isn't "a white Nicki Minaj," and most recently proclaimed that she's "not a white ratchet girl." Extending her master class on racial identity to social media, she told her followers that she is, indeed, aware of her skin color.
THAT's your new hero PD.COM?
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 11:02:02 AM
You can ignore her problems with racial appropriation but that doesn't make them go away:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286
QuoteAll the elements of nu-Cyrus that critics have called foul on in recent weeks were on display: black people used as props (see above), black cultural signifiers like twerking used as a means of connoting that Miley's now wild and dangerous, and little in the way of new or evocative imagery.
I've written about Miley's race problems (or, racism, depending on how you take it), but here's a quick summary: She's gone around telling people she wants to make music that "sounds black," that she likes "hood music" but isn't "a white Nicki Minaj," and most recently proclaimed that she's "not a white ratchet girl." Extending her master class on racial identity to social media, she told her followers that she is, indeed, aware of her skin color.
Can you, or someone else, explain to me what is racial appropiation?
When I read the article, it doesn't sound so bad. Is it because the writer just assumes everyone knows why it's bad and it's just me who is missing some crucial context?
-
I was just about to google site:principiadiscordia.com/forum "racial appropiation" because I remembered reading something about it on this forum but couldn't remember exactly where :lol:
Thank you, Cain.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
No problem.
I just want to remark, for the record, it's pretty sad that RWHN is now stooping to parroting baseless accusations of racism because he doesn't want to lose an argument about Miley Cyrus on the internet.
Well, it's not JUST that. He also has to show us we're WRONG, no matter what the subject is. It's why he's here.
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
No problem.
I just want to remark, for the record, it's pretty sad that RWHN is now stooping to parroting baseless accusations of racism because he doesn't want to lose an argument about Miley Cyrus on the internet.
That's not sad, it's fucking VICTORY!!!
(http://fotos.sapo.pt/nothingman/pic/000bb9gp)
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
No problem.
I just want to remark, for the record, it's pretty sad that RWHN is now stooping to parroting baseless accusations of racism because he doesn't want to lose an argument about Miley Cyrus on the internet.
Well, it's not JUST that. He also has to show us we're WRONG, no matter what the subject is. It's why he's here.
Which is just silly, because we all know we're WRONG. There are whole REAMS of essays devoted to that fact alone.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 07, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:13:34 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
No problem.
I just want to remark, for the record, it's pretty sad that RWHN is now stooping to parroting baseless accusations of racism because he doesn't want to lose an argument about Miley Cyrus on the internet.
Well, it's not JUST that. He also has to show us we're WRONG, no matter what the subject is. It's why he's here.
Which is just silly, because we all know we're WRONG. There are whole REAMS of essays devoted to that fact alone.
I have researched a study, in fact, that indicates without room for error that we are as wrong as a squirrel fucking a bobcat.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:16:05 PM
I have researched a study, in fact, that indicates without room for error that we are as wrong as a squirrel fucking a bobcat.
Permission to steal?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 07, 2013, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:16:05 PM
I have researched a study, in fact, that indicates without room for error that we are as wrong as a squirrel fucking a bobcat.
Permission to steal?
Knock yourself out.
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
No problem.
I just want to remark, for the record, it's pretty sad that RWHN is now stooping to parroting baseless accusations of racism because he doesn't want to lose an argument about Miley Cyrus on the internet.
Not to mention that the goalposts have been shifted ENTIRELY from his original argument that it wasn't satire and Cyrus didn't make it awkward on purpose. The rows of big-butted black backup singers were part of the parody. The objectification was blatant for the same reason everything else she did in that performance was blatant.
An interesting thing about the fairly limited efforts of some media elements to make Miley Cyrus out to be racist; they cry "appropriation" and "exploitation" but the real problem seems to be that Cyrus is not appropriating but embracing, and that, too, makes people uncomfortable. I am all for making people uncomfortable, and even RWHN is clearly made uncomfortable, as evidenced by the fact that he's still arguing that we're all wrong about this, even though what the "this" is that we're wrong about seems to shift a bit every few pages.
It's making people uncomfortable and it's making a lot of people talk about music industry culture, racism, and patriarchy, and that's a good thing, IMO.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on October 07, 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 11:02:02 AM
You can ignore her problems with racial appropriation but that doesn't make them go away:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286 (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286)
QuoteAll the elements of nu-Cyrus that critics have called foul on in recent weeks were on display: black people used as props (see above), black cultural signifiers like twerking used as a means of connoting that Miley's now wild and dangerous, and little in the way of new or evocative imagery.
I've written about Miley's race problems (or, racism, depending on how you take it), but here's a quick summary: She's gone around telling people she wants to make music that "sounds black," that she likes "hood music" but isn't "a white Nicki Minaj," and most recently proclaimed that she's "not a white ratchet girl." Extending her master class on racial identity to social media, she told her followers that she is, indeed, aware of her skin color.
Can you, or someone else, explain to me what is racial appropiation?
When I read the article, it doesn't sound so bad. Is it because the writer just assumes everyone knows why it's bad and it's just me who is missing some crucial context?
"black people used as props"
Let that phrase sink in a bit.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 03:54:30 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on October 07, 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 11:02:02 AM
You can ignore her problems with racial appropriation but that doesn't make them go away:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286 (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3817286)
QuoteAll the elements of nu-Cyrus that critics have called foul on in recent weeks were on display: black people used as props (see above), black cultural signifiers like twerking used as a means of connoting that Miley's now wild and dangerous, and little in the way of new or evocative imagery.
I've written about Miley's race problems (or, racism, depending on how you take it), but here's a quick summary: She's gone around telling people she wants to make music that "sounds black," that she likes "hood music" but isn't "a white Nicki Minaj," and most recently proclaimed that she's "not a white ratchet girl." Extending her master class on racial identity to social media, she told her followers that she is, indeed, aware of her skin color.
Can you, or someone else, explain to me what is racial appropiation?
When I read the article, it doesn't sound so bad. Is it because the writer just assumes everyone knows why it's bad and it's just me who is missing some crucial context?
"black people used as props"
Let that phrase sink in a bit.
After tying that phrase to a lead anchor and dropping it over the Mariana Trench, I agree that phrase does sound bad.
Problem is, I don't know what that phrase
signifies. It's just empty sensationalism, like "racial appropiation".
Been thinking about this. When, exactly, has a backup dancer not been used as a prop? The entire job is to enhance the spectacle, not be an individual with agency.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 07, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
Been thinking about this. When, exactly, has a backup dancer not been used as a prop? The entire job is to enhance the spectacle, not be an individual with agency.
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her, like Kanye and Mike WiLL Made-It just don't know any better. It's a good thing they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her just don't know any better. It's a good think they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
I was just about to post ailment about that, and that he is basically telling any PoC who isn't iffended that they just dint understand how they have been insulted by Miley Cyrus. it's very fucking patronizing, but par for him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/mike-will-made-it-on-miley-cyrus-more-than-her-twerking_n_4037530.html
I think there are a whole lot of people that just don't get it, and they are so threatened by the fact that they don't get it that they have to insist as loud as they can that nobody else gets it, either. :lol:
RWHN has straight up said we should ignore him. For the record, I'm taking him up on the advice - its about the only suggestion he's made which I feel has any more substance than, well... 'nope'.
(I do LOVE those cat reaction shots though, Nigel. They're great RWHN-replacements :lulz:)
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 07, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her just don't know any better. It's a good think they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
I was just about to post ailment about that, and that he is basically telling any PoC who isn't iffended that they just dint understand how they have been insulted by Miley Cyrus. it's very fucking patronizing, but par for him.
Yeah well, y'know. He's here to tell us little people how to think.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 07, 2013, 04:55:36 PM
RWHN has straight up said we should ignore him. For the record, I'm taking him up on the advice - its about the only suggestion he's made which I feel has any more substance than, well... 'nope'.
(I do LOVE those cat reaction shots though, Nigel. They're great RWHN-replacements :lulz:)
As soon as you said that thing about "nope" I was like, damn, that's spot-on! It's all he ever says, when you boil it right down.
And you're right about ignoring him, I just get lured in by the temptation of mocking his sheer condescending idiocy.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her, like Kanye and Mike WiLL Made-It just don't know any better. It's a good thing they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
Compare:
Case 1: For several years, Justin Timberlake carted around a large quantity of Black men, whose purpose was to go on stage before him and sing about how "real" Justin Timberlake is. This was deliberate.
Case 2: For several years, P!nk's back up band was exclusively Black. Her BFF extra in "get the party started" was Black, as were most of her BFF extras in most videos. This may or may not have been deliberate.
Miley Cyrus gets a bunch of Black people in on the joke, namely making fun of using Black people as a prop. This was deliberate.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:55:59 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 07, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her just don't know any better. It's a good think they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
I was just about to post ailment about that, and that he is basically telling any PoC who isn't iffended that they just dint understand how they have been insulted by Miley Cyrus. it's very fucking patronizing, but par for him.
Yeah well, y'know. He's here to tell us little people how to think.
Someone has to protect everyone, and he's the SGitR. People trap him into this sort of thing, you see.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 05:00:36 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:55:59 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 07, 2013, 04:51:28 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 04:48:56 PM
No, RWHN is telling is, we're supposed to feel offended. Never mind that I and every black person I know loved it precisely because it made a mockery of the backup-dancer-as-prop trope. He knows better.
And the black people collaborating with her just don't know any better. It's a good think they have Huffpo and RWHN to explain what they should be feeling.
I was just about to post ailment about that, and that he is basically telling any PoC who isn't iffended that they just dint understand how they have been insulted by Miley Cyrus. it's very fucking patronizing, but par for him.
Yeah well, y'know. He's here to tell us little people how to think.
Someone has to protect everyone, and he's the SGitR. People trap him into this sort of thing, you see.
Those two hipsters on that post are RWHN's children all grown up.
Except no one can rock a suit harder than him.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
An interesting thing about the fairly limited efforts of some media elements to make Miley Cyrus out to be racist; they cry "appropriation" and "exploitation" but the real problem seems to be that Cyrus is not appropriating but embracing, and that, too, makes people uncomfortable. I am all for making people uncomfortable, and even RWHN is clearly made uncomfortable, as evidenced by the fact that he's still arguing that we're all wrong about this, even though what the "this" is that we're wrong about seems to shift a bit every few pages.
It's making people uncomfortable and it's making a lot of people talk about music industry culture, racism, and patriarchy, and that's a good thing, IMO.
The way they're using "appropriation" just *might* be their way of saying "race traitor".
I have to think about this.
Quote from: Reverend What's His Bear on October 07, 2013, 05:37:45 PM
Except no one can rock a suit harder than him.
:spittake:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 07, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
Been thinking about this. When, exactly, has a backup dancer not been used as a prop? The entire job is to enhance the spectacle, not be an individual with agency.
Timberland videos. Example: His bits/cameos in
Head of State.
Find 3 White girls that can't dance. Have them attempt to dance to a rap that
nobody can dance to, and make sure they dance fast if the beat is slow.
They aren't props, they're the
main attraction. When you watch Timberland's stuff, you have this weird feeling, like you're standing on your head or something. It's like Leslie Gore on a bag of bad crank.
Quote from: stelz on October 07, 2013, 05:49:35 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
An interesting thing about the fairly limited efforts of some media elements to make Miley Cyrus out to be racist; they cry "appropriation" and "exploitation" but the real problem seems to be that Cyrus is not appropriating but embracing, and that, too, makes people uncomfortable. I am all for making people uncomfortable, and even RWHN is clearly made uncomfortable, as evidenced by the fact that he's still arguing that we're all wrong about this, even though what the "this" is that we're wrong about seems to shift a bit every few pages.
It's making people uncomfortable and it's making a lot of people talk about music industry culture, racism, and patriarchy, and that's a good thing, IMO.
The way they're using "appropriation" just *might* be their way of saying "race traitor".
I have to think about this.
That's more of the vibe that I'm getting. I've seen a couple of blog posts by black women who were offended, but they also didn't recognize the parody angle. Which is amazing, after the Miley-spanking-a-black-dwarf-dancer scene. The problem seems to be, nobody who's being so critical of Cyrus "using" black people seems to be interested in what the black people she's working with have to say, and the fact that she is collaborating with black people as equals and friends, and that Mike WiLL Made-It, as her producer, is intimately involved with all of the stage scenery, including the big-butted black dancers. But people want it both ways; that she IS in creative control and therefore responsible for exploiting black performers, and that she ISN'T in creative control, but rather that her producer is pulling the strings on her like a puppet. But her producer is a black man, and that generates a pretty intense cognitive dissonance, which is why they can't stop screeching all this self-contradictory noise. All they know is that she's BAD, although they can't seem to nail down why. BAD, and NOTHING SPECIAL AT ALL.
Quote from: stelz on October 07, 2013, 05:49:35 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
An interesting thing about the fairly limited efforts of some media elements to make Miley Cyrus out to be racist; they cry "appropriation" and "exploitation" but the real problem seems to be that Cyrus is not appropriating but embracing, and that, too, makes people uncomfortable. I am all for making people uncomfortable, and even RWHN is clearly made uncomfortable, as evidenced by the fact that he's still arguing that we're all wrong about this, even though what the "this" is that we're wrong about seems to shift a bit every few pages.
It's making people uncomfortable and it's making a lot of people talk about music industry culture, racism, and patriarchy, and that's a good thing, IMO.
The way they're using "appropriation" just *might* be their way of saying "race traitor".
I have to think about this.
ZING ME! LOOK AT HER SHAKING HER FANNY!
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 07, 2013, 04:55:36 PM
RWHN has straight up said we should ignore him. For the record, I'm taking him up on the advice - its about the only suggestion he's made which I feel has any more substance than, well... 'nope'.
(I do LOVE those cat reaction shots though, Nigel. They're great RWHN-replacements :lulz: )
Pfft! I post an opinion and you guys go on about it for pages. For better or for worse, I am a content generator.
Oh shit! He has an opinion, that must mean he wants us all to have his opinion. Get him!
ook ook! Someone with wrong opinion, QUICK! someone post kitty memes stat!
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 06:33:55 PM
ook ook! Someone with wrong opinion, QUICK! someone post kitty memes stat!
Ha ha! Your kitty meme was so cool! Hey, let's hang out and talk about Miley!
-
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 06:34:59 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 06:33:55 PM
ook ook! Someone with wrong opinion, QUICK! someone post kitty memes stat!
Ha ha! Your kitty meme was so cool! Hey, let's hang out and talk about Miley!
:butthurt:
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
Well done RWHN. You're up there with such fantastic content creators as AKK and Dead Kennedy. You must be really proud. Maybe you could apply to be a clickbait generator for HuffPo?
I'm following Miley's cutting-edge strategy of just throwing out shit to get people to talk.
I guess you guys were right, she's a goddamned genius! If only AKK had her financial backers and name recognition.
:lulz:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 06:46:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
Well done RWHN. You're up there with such fantastic content creators as AKK and Dead Kennedy. You must be really proud. Maybe you could apply to be a clickbait generator for HuffPo?
I'm following Miley's cutting-edge strategy of just throwing out shit to get people to talk.
I guess you guys were right, she's a goddamned genius! If only AKK had her financial backers and name recognition.
:lulz:
False Equivalence: Used by SGitRs everywhere.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517
:pokewithstick:
-
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 07:37:11 PM
"One time I smoked a joint with peyote in it, and I saw a wolf howling at the moon," Cyrus told Rolling Stone contributing editor Josh Eells.
Pffffft. Three wolves (http://www.amazon.com/The-Mountain-Three-Short-Sleeve/dp/B002HJ377A) howling at the moon or GTFO.
Smoking peyote?
DOIN' IT WRONG.
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
And?
-
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 07:39:01 PM
If she'd ingested it, she would have seen three wolves, for sure.
True fact.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
:spittake:
/
Holy fuck. Even when it's spelled out in simple letters, you don't get it do you?
You're actually a strong candidate for Dumbest Guy in the Room
Yes, you got it - that's an awesome compliment I just gave you. Enjoy :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
And?
It's like I said from the beginning, she's going after eye-balls. Whatever symbols she can throw out there to get them she will. Have you read the RS article? It, and her whole approach, can easily be summed up in a simple phrase, "Hey everybody, look at me!".
Which makes sense because she's an entertainer, that's what they are paid to do.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
And?
It's like I said from the beginning, she's going after eye-balls. Whatever symbols she can throw out there to get them she will. Have you read the RS article? It, and her whole approach, can easily be summed up in a simple phrase, "Hey everybody, look at me!".
Which makes sense because she's an entertainer, that's what they are paid to do.
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like ‘Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?’”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
And?
It's like I said from the beginning, she's going after eye-balls. Whatever symbols she can throw out there to get them she will. Have you read the RS article? It, and her whole approach, can easily be summed up in a simple phrase, "Hey everybody, look at me!".
Which makes sense because she's an entertainer, that's what they are paid to do.
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
He's projecting. I mean, you smack him all over PD, he just keeps popping back up, but there's nothing between his ears and he's oblivious to the fact that he looks REALLY MORONIC.
I have come to the conclusion that RWHN is a bop bag. Except the bop bag would probably fill out a suit better.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img855/1213/zb5m.jpg)
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Of course she's making money while braying laughter in everyone's faces.
:bob:
Give "Bob" one good reason why she shouldn't.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Of course she's making money while braying laughter in everyone's faces.
:bob:
Give "Bob" one good reason why she shouldn't.
It's not art if you're not starving.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:38:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
"I hate the paparazzi — but when they're not sitting there waiting for you, you're like 'Who's bigger news? Who are you trying to get a picture of?'"
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI (http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/miley-cyrus-marijuana-weed-best-drug-earth-article-1.1469517#ixzz2h3x602WI)
:pokewithstick:
And?
It's like I said from the beginning, she's going after eye-balls. Whatever symbols she can throw out there to get them she will. Have you read the RS article? It, and her whole approach, can easily be summed up in a simple phrase, "Hey everybody, look at me!".
Which makes sense because she's an entertainer, that's what they are paid to do.
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
I don' think they are mutually exclusive, I think people are falling prey to Lo5 regarding the "taking the piss" thing. It falls apart when you read the RS interview where she clearly NEEDS and CRAVES the attention as much as any other Hollywood type. I mean, for chrissakes, she's comparing herself to Michael Jackson saying she wants people to hold her albums in the same legendary status as his. She isn't rebelling or speaking out against anything. She WANTS that shit.
I'm really shocked that everyone is missing what is so painfully obvious. It's really bizarre to me that so many of you are so desperate to claim her as your Discordian Troll Queen, that you can't see how she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
But this is one spag's opinion.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
It's not art if you're not starving.
Right. Only the penniless artist can be subversive.
Social Satire
TM and Screwing With The Machine
TM are brands owned by Starving Artists, LLC.
Making money while doing these things, especially if being paid through large corporations, is subcultural appropriation, and will be dealt with using the angriest bloggers available.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Of course she's making money while braying laughter in everyone's faces.
:bob:
Give "Bob" one good reason why she shouldn't.
It's not art if you're not starving.
Strawman. Pink Floyd made (and still makes) huge bank on art. Of course, DSoTM was an actual purposeful commentary, and not an unaware accidental one.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PM
I don' think they are mutually exclusive, I think people are falling prey to Lo5 regarding the "taking the piss" thing. It falls apart when you read the RS interview where she clearly NEEDS and CRAVES the attention as much as any other Hollywood type. I mean, for chrissakes, she's comparing herself to Michael Jackson saying she wants people to hold her albums in the same legendary status as his. She isn't rebelling or speaking out against anything. She WANTS that shit.
Again, not mutually exclusive. She can enjoy the spotlight while fucking with the audience.
QuoteI'm really shocked that everyone is missing what is so painfully obvious. It's really bizarre to me that so many of you are so desperate to claim her as your Discordian Troll Queen, that you can't see how she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
Which is kind of the whole point.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Of course she's making money while braying laughter in everyone's faces.
:bob:
Give "Bob" one good reason why she shouldn't.
It's not art if you're not starving.
Strawman. Pink Floyd made (and still makes) huge bank on art. Of course, DSoTM was an actual purposeful commentary, and not an unaware accidental one.
Pink Floyd was about as subversive as my grandmother.
ETA: My grandmother at least didn't whine, which is about all Roger Waters has ever been good for.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
It's not art if you're not starving.
Right. Only the penniless artist can be subversive.
Social SatireTM and Screwing With The MachineTM are brands owned by Starving Artists, LLC.
Making money while doing these things, especially if being paid through large corporations, is subcultural appropriation, and will be dealt with using the angriest bloggers available.
And a resounding denouncement from the holding-your-smokes-backwards smooth jazz crowd, which is - as it ought to be - bowel-liquifyingly terrifying.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMI'm really shocked that everyone is missing what is so painfully obvious. It's really bizarre to me that so many of you are so desperate to claim her as your Discordian Troll Queen, that you can't see how she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
But this is one spag's opinion.
I don't even know what Your Discordia looks like.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 07, 2013, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMI'm really shocked that everyone is missing what is so painfully obvious. It's really bizarre to me that so many of you are so desperate to claim her as your Discordian Troll Queen, that you can't see how she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
But this is one spag's opinion.
I don't even know what Your Discordia looks like.
Perfectly straight lines, with some improv playing over the loudspeakers.
-
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:52:04 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
It's not art if you're not starving.
Right. Only the penniless artist can be subversive.
Social SatireTM and Screwing With The MachineTM are brands owned by Starving Artists, LLC.
Making money while doing these things, especially if being paid through large corporations, is subcultural appropriation, and will be dealt with using the angriest bloggers available.
And a resounding denouncement from the holding-your-smokes-backwards smooth jazz crowd, which is - as it ought to be - bowel-liquifyingly terrifying.
Just WAIT until my buddy living in Hairy Steve's basement publishes my scathing essay about your SELLOUT in his 'zine!
Then you'll be sorry.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:52:04 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
It's not art if you're not starving.
Right. Only the penniless artist can be subversive.
Social SatireTM and Screwing With The MachineTM are brands owned by Starving Artists, LLC.
Making money while doing these things, especially if being paid through large corporations, is subcultural appropriation, and will be dealt with using the angriest bloggers available.
And a resounding denouncement from the holding-your-smokes-backwards smooth jazz crowd, which is - as it ought to be - bowel-liquifyingly terrifying.
Just WAIT until my buddy living in Hairy Steve's basement publishes my scathing essay about your SELLOUT in his 'zine!
Then you'll be sorry.
I shall rend my beret in shame. :sad:
I would like to point out, though, that saying "smooth jazz" isn't music is like saying Coors Light isn't beer. Not strictly accurate, and you shouldn't mock people who can't afford better.
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 08:53:46 PM
lawl, implying Miley Cyrus is intentionally trolling is now declaring her a "Discordian Troll Queen".
Did you get that strawman on special? It's looking a bit ragged...
Regarding a pop artist with anything but eye-rolling disdain is a violation of Discordian Standard chapter 17, part 172.48. Such action will be considered an attempt to put said pop artist on one of the Great Discordian Pedestals, and shall be addressed using standard Class B Heresy Mitigation protocols.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:52:04 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
It's not art if you're not starving.
Right. Only the penniless artist can be subversive.
Social SatireTM and Screwing With The MachineTM are brands owned by Starving Artists, LLC.
Making money while doing these things, especially if being paid through large corporations, is subcultural appropriation, and will be dealt with using the angriest bloggers available.
And a resounding denouncement from the holding-your-smokes-backwards smooth jazz crowd, which is - as it ought to be - bowel-liquifyingly terrifying.
Just WAIT until my buddy living in Hairy Steve's basement publishes my scathing essay about your SELLOUT in his 'zine!
Then you'll be sorry.
I shall rend my beret in shame. :sad:
:lulz:
Miley Cyrus has RWHN chewing his knuckles in frustration. I nominate her for Discordian Troll Queen.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
You're just too damned old, RWHN.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:50:45 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
Yeah, and I don't think anyone's denied that she's paid to do so. What we are saying is that she's taking the piss. You seem to think these are mutually exclusive things, because apparently Miley Cyrus is something less than a human being, and can't possibly do such a thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Yeah, took a quick look, and I don't see anyone saying she's doing this as a charity event. :lulz:
Of course she's making money while braying laughter in everyone's faces.
:bob:
Give "Bob" one good reason why she shouldn't.
It's not art if you're not starving.
Strawman. Pink Floyd made (and still makes) huge bank on art. Of course, DSoTM was an actual purposeful commentary, and not an unaware accidental one.
Pink Floyd was about as subversive as my grandmother.
ETA: My grandmother at least didn't whine, which is about all Roger Waters has ever been good for.
"Wah, life is a grind and there's pressure and stuff and it gets tedious and kind of empty. I'm gonna juxtapose commentary about that with imagery of crackups. Even though the guy I'm using for inspiration was a schizophrenic, which is, uh, you know, a pre-existing condition."
I better expand on that.
RWHN, you referred to Pink Floyd earlier as "subversive", and that's kind of funny considering that they are now and have always been establishment as fuck. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
And you know who the old people are? The people who see a change like this happen, and immediately bitch. Sometimes because they can't handle change...And sometimes, as with you, because the change was made by a subgroup they don't like (in your case women, in the 50s it was Black people), and because the change further buries any connection you have to contemporary music. Pink Floyd is a perfect example of this...A useless pack of fossils who were fossils when they were young, a perfect cog in the machine, and fossils NOW, who exist only for pretentious old gasbags to whine about, while referring to when music was REAL and not this awful noise the kids listen to.
So, yeah. You're too damn old.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is. They aren't even people to you, are they?
I think she's creative and hilarious because she's playing the game, but she's playing it in a way that highlights the ugliness of the game, which is upsetting a lot of people. Which is exactly what I've been saying since my first post. Thinking someone's creative and hilarious is not worship.
Your bitterness and negativity is really just depressing to behold. All you seem to do is go around finding threads where people are saying things you disagree with, so you can try to "nope" them to death. The sad thing is, I get the impression that for you, this IS really trying to contribute.
Uck.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is. They aren't even people to you, are they?
I think she's creative and hilarious because she's playing the game, but she's playing it in a way that highlights the ugliness of the game, which is upsetting a lot of people. Which is exactly what I've been saying since my first post. Thinking someone's creative and hilarious is not worship.
Your bitterness and negativity is really just depressing to behold. All you seem to do is go around finding threads where people are saying things you disagree with, so you can try to "nope" them to death. The sad thing is, I get the impression that for you, this IS really trying to contribute.
Uck.
More to the point, he completely MISSED the point.
She set the "shit pile" on fire. Whether or not someone believes that this was accidental or on purpose is largely irrelevant.
But yes, referring to artists of any caliber as a "shit pile" is pretty fucking telling.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is. They aren't even people to you, are they?
I think she's creative and hilarious because she's playing the game, but she's playing it in a way that highlights the ugliness of the game, which is upsetting a lot of people. Which is exactly what I've been saying since my first post. Thinking someone's creative and hilarious is not worship.
Your bitterness and negativity is really just depressing to behold. All you seem to do is go around finding threads where people are saying things you disagree with, so you can try to "nope" them to death. The sad thing is, I get the impression that for you, this IS really trying to contribute.
Uck.
More to the point, he completely MISSED the point.
She set the "shit pile" on fire. Whether or not someone believes that this was accidental or on purpose is largely irrelevant.
But yes, referring to artists of any caliber as a "shit pile" is pretty fucking telling.
Yeah but none of our perspectives have any validity because we're wrong and also because nope.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:37:15 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is. They aren't even people to you, are they?
I think she's creative and hilarious because she's playing the game, but she's playing it in a way that highlights the ugliness of the game, which is upsetting a lot of people. Which is exactly what I've been saying since my first post. Thinking someone's creative and hilarious is not worship.
Your bitterness and negativity is really just depressing to behold. All you seem to do is go around finding threads where people are saying things you disagree with, so you can try to "nope" them to death. The sad thing is, I get the impression that for you, this IS really trying to contribute.
Uck.
More to the point, he completely MISSED the point.
She set the "shit pile" on fire. Whether or not someone believes that this was accidental or on purpose is largely irrelevant.
But yes, referring to artists of any caliber as a "shit pile" is pretty fucking telling.
Yeah but none of our perspectives have any validity because we're wrong and also because nope.
Who cares what a cranky & pretentious old fart has to say? He can nope all day fucking long, and he's still that old man in the loud shorts & black socks, grumbling about those rotten kids and their hooligan music.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM
I better expand on that.
RWHN, you referred to Pink Floyd earlier as "subversive",
Wrong in the first sentence. I said that they provided commentary on DSoTM. For example, "Money" as artful commentary on the greed that pervades Western culture including the music industry. But the whole album was a, in my opinion, marvelous and quite artful commentary on culture.
They were able to make that artistic statement and also make a boatload of money doing it. So, no, you don't need to starve to make great art.
But being the worst of the worst isn't making great art.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:19:29 AM
For example, "Money" as artful commentary on the greed that pervades Western culture including the music industry.
So, basically, rich people whining about rich people. Just like I said.
Since we're chopping posts up.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
In other words, only stuff that's way too underground for the likes of us counts as art. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Oh my Bob. RWHN is channeling EBS.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on October 08, 2013, 02:35:57 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Oh my Bob. RWHN is channeling EBS.
Whiny scruffball who wrote some drek and then punked out and offed himself = an artist.
Because penis, that's why.
Yes, they were. Music industry hasn't been the same since.
They tried to make ska the "next big thing". Failed
Then it was rap-rock and NuMetal. Failed.
Emo. Failed.
Sure, artists came and went and some had decent album sales, but not that big, seismic, cultural shift that was created when Nirvana knocked off Michael Jackson.
Miley can only dream of that kind of commercial, critical, AND cultural success.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
Optimism strikes again. Called it too early.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:34:14 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
In other words, only stuff that's way too underground for the likes of us counts as art. :lulz:
No, stuff that isn't crapped out by the industry assembly line counts as art.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
Yes, they were. Music industry hasn't been the same since.
They tried to make ska the "next big thing". Failed
Then it was rap-rock and NuMetal. Failed.
Emo. Failed.
Sure, artists came and went and some had decent album sales, but not that big, seismic, cultural shift that was created when Nirvana knocked off Michael Jackson.
Miley can only dream of that kind of commercial, critical, AND cultural success.
Nirvana as a cultural success. :lulz:
You really are fucking hopeless.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:40:29 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:34:14 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
In other words, only stuff that's way too underground for the likes of us counts as art. :lulz:
No, stuff that isn't crapped out by the industry assembly line counts as art.
I see.
Do you wear a sweatervest, by any chance?
Anyone ever notice that RWHN never has anything nice to say about any woman? ALL of his music pics, etc, are male, and he has nothing nice to say or even allow when it comes to female artists.
I keep trying to think of how to phrase what I mean and I keep realizing it won't go anywhere.
And yet I can't tear myself away from this thread.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 08, 2013, 02:55:04 AM
I keep trying to think of how to phrase what I mean and I keep realizing it won't go anywhere.
And yet I can't tear myself away from this thread.
Then just spit it out.
SHE'S CERTAINLY NOT TROLLING OR ANYTHING:
http://www.today.com/health/miley-cyrus-says-sex-ends-40-not-true-say-experts-8C11352134
:lulz:
Okay, here goes
Whether or not Miley Cyrus's music is, artistically, worth a god damn is not the point. It's so far beside the point that they have different zip codes.
The fact that people got mad is not, in itself, really the point either. Our popular culture is addicted to getting mad about bullshit.
It's the fact she, rather than using her young starlet body and fame to be "naughty" and "scandalous" in order to fill the niche that was prescribed for her (and that many people are desperately trying to insist that she's still subject to), instead took control over her own project. She created a hideous mockery of the very thing she was supposed to be, and shoved it in our faces while screaming, "ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU LIKE?"
for that segment of the population that can't wrap their heads around women's sexuality, especially when it hasn't been shaved and primped for public consumption, Miley Cyrus basically held up a mirror and forced the world to see its own sweaty, flabby, flesh furiously masturbating
and she didn't do it through music
she did it through spectacle. Ugly, horrible, corporate-backed, soulless spectacle.
and so far, she's still refusing to have her scheduled horrible public meltdown, which is the last resort of everyone who NEEDS her to fit in the memetic mold that's been created for pop starlets, although they don't know why they NEED it so badly
Does this make her, the person, worthy of reverence as an artist, or as a troll? I dunno. But the thing itself is interesting in its own right, and worth examining.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 03:03:50 AM
SHE'S CERTAINLY NOT TROLLING OR ANYTHING:
http://www.today.com/health/miley-cyrus-says-sex-ends-40-not-true-say-experts-8C11352134
:lulz:
:spit:
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 08, 2013, 03:15:55 AM
Okay, here goes
Whether or not Miley Cyrus's music is, artistically, worth a god damn is not the point. It's so far beside the point that they have different zip codes.
The fact that people got mad is not, in itself, really the point either. Our popular culture is addicted to getting mad about bullshit.
It's the fact she, rather than using her young starlet body and fame to be "naughty" and "scandalous" in order to fill the niche that was prescribed for her (and that many people are desperately trying to insist that she's still subject to), instead took control over her own project. She created a hideous mockery of the very thing she was supposed to be, and shoved it in our faces while screaming, "ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU LIKE?"
for that segment of the population that can't wrap their heads around women's sexuality, especially when it hasn't been shaved and primped for public consumption, Miley Cyrus basically held up a mirror and forced the world to see its own sweaty, flabby, flesh furiously masturbating
and she didn't do it through music
she did it through spectacle. Ugly, horrible, corporate-backed, soulless spectacle.
and so far, she's still refusing to have her scheduled horrible public meltdown, which is the last resort of everyone who NEEDS her to fit in the memetic mold that's been created for pop starlets, although they don't know why they NEED it so badly
Does this make her, the person, worthy of reverence as an artist, or as a troll? I dunno. But the thing itself is interesting in its own right, and worth examining.
I'd say you are on the money. SO on the money that we can expect a NOPE cat very shortly.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:44:33 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:40:29 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:34:14 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
In other words, only stuff that's way too underground for the likes of us counts as art. :lulz:
No, stuff that isn't crapped out by the industry assembly line counts as art.
I see.
Do you wear a sweatervest, by any chance?
No, still rocking the flannel like it's 1992.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:45:44 AM
Anyone ever notice that RWHN never has anything nice to say about any woman? ALL of his music pics, etc, are male, and he has nothing nice to say or even allow when it comes to female artists.
Anneke van Giersbergen is very female. And can sing circles around just about any other female vocalist.
Also Lee Douglas.
to name just a couple.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 03:19:56 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 08, 2013, 03:15:55 AM
Okay, here goes
Whether or not Miley Cyrus's music is, artistically, worth a god damn is not the point. It's so far beside the point that they have different zip codes.
The fact that people got mad is not, in itself, really the point either. Our popular culture is addicted to getting mad about bullshit.
It's the fact she, rather than using her young starlet body and fame to be "naughty" and "scandalous" in order to fill the niche that was prescribed for her (and that many people are desperately trying to insist that she's still subject to), instead took control over her own project. She created a hideous mockery of the very thing she was supposed to be, and shoved it in our faces while screaming, "ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU LIKE?"
for that segment of the population that can't wrap their heads around women's sexuality, especially when it hasn't been shaved and primped for public consumption, Miley Cyrus basically held up a mirror and forced the world to see its own sweaty, flabby, flesh furiously masturbating
and she didn't do it through music
she did it through spectacle. Ugly, horrible, corporate-backed, soulless spectacle.
and so far, she's still refusing to have her scheduled horrible public meltdown, which is the last resort of everyone who NEEDS her to fit in the memetic mold that's been created for pop starlets, although they don't know why they NEED it so badly
Does this make her, the person, worthy of reverence as an artist, or as a troll? I dunno. But the thing itself is interesting in its own right, and worth examining.
I'd say you are on the money. SO on the money that we can expect a NOPE cat very shortly.
exactly why I was reluctant to post it
I feel like we've tread that exact ground no fewer than 5 times. I'm getting dizzy from the circles.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 03:27:07 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:44:33 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:40:29 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:34:14 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:32:55 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:28:19 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 12:10:20 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
So you are worshipping her for being the top of the shit pile
Wow, now I know what your opinion of artists is.
I have a very high opinion of artists. I have a very low opinion of pre-packaged crap.
In other words, only stuff that's way too underground for the likes of us counts as art. :lulz:
No, stuff that isn't crapped out by the industry assembly line counts as art.
I see.
Do you wear a sweatervest, by any chance?
No, still rocking the flannel like it's 1992.
That's kinda sad.
That's kind of rad?
Killer buddy!
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 03:03:50 AM
SHE'S CERTAINLY NOT TROLLING OR ANYTHING:
http://www.today.com/health/miley-cyrus-says-sex-ends-40-not-true-say-experts-8C11352134
:lulz:
Oh yeah, clearly not trolling. :lol:
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 08, 2013, 03:15:55 AM
Okay, here goes
Whether or not Miley Cyrus's music is, artistically, worth a god damn is not the point. It's so far beside the point that they have different zip codes.
The fact that people got mad is not, in itself, really the point either. Our popular culture is addicted to getting mad about bullshit.
It's the fact she, rather than using her young starlet body and fame to be "naughty" and "scandalous" in order to fill the niche that was prescribed for her (and that many people are desperately trying to insist that she's still subject to), instead took control over her own project. She created a hideous mockery of the very thing she was supposed to be, and shoved it in our faces while screaming, "ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU LIKE?"
for that segment of the population that can't wrap their heads around women's sexuality, especially when it hasn't been shaved and primped for public consumption, Miley Cyrus basically held up a mirror and forced the world to see its own sweaty, flabby, flesh furiously masturbating
and she didn't do it through music
she did it through spectacle. Ugly, horrible, corporate-backed, soulless spectacle.
and so far, she's still refusing to have her scheduled horrible public meltdown, which is the last resort of everyone who NEEDS her to fit in the memetic mold that's been created for pop starlets, although they don't know why they NEED it so badly
Does this make her, the person, worthy of reverence as an artist, or as a troll? I dunno. But the thing itself is interesting in its own right, and worth examining.
BINGO
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 08, 2013, 02:39:21 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 07, 2013, 08:47:44 PMhow she completely encapsulates everything that is so garishly fucked up with mainstream pop culture.
OH MY GOD, YOU FINALLY GET IT!
Optimism strikes again. Called it too early.
You're right. Overly optimistic, as always. :(
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
So like people who claim Pearl Jam is good and/or music?
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 08, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
So like people who claim Pearl Jam is good and/or music?
It might be, for them.
But that allows for the idea of differing valid viewpoints.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 08, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
So like people who claim Pearl Jam is good and/or music?
It might be, for them.
But that allows for the idea of differing valid viewpoints.
Well we can't have that now can we.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 08, 2013, 07:20:40 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 07:14:11 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 08, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
So like people who claim Pearl Jam is good and/or music?
It might be, for them.
But that allows for the idea of differing valid viewpoints.
Well we can't have that now can we.
Oh, certainly not, because that allows for the possibility of mutable truth, or subjective truth, or truths that vary depending upon culture or circumstance, and that can't possibly be permissible.
You guys get awfully sensitive and threatened by my differing opinions. Why is that? Be more like me, stand firm, give no fucks.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 03:03:50 AM
SHE'S CERTAINLY NOT TROLLING OR ANYTHING:
http://www.today.com/health/miley-cyrus-says-sex-ends-40-not-true-say-experts-8C11352134
:lulz:
That's adolescence, not trolling.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
You can like Nirvana or not like Nirvana, but you'd have to be a bit culturally blind to not recognize the impact they had on American culture and the music industry. They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear. Green Day doesn't become a big band without Nirvana. Radiohead would've been stuck in the college music scene if Nirvana didn't happen. It was a broad, large scale sea change.
Name me one band or artist that has had that level of impact since them.
Vanilla Ice!
:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 08, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
Vanilla Ice!
Your timeline is fucked. Vanilla Ice's album came out in 1990. Nevermind was late 1991. Nevermind that VI was a one-hit wonder and had no long-lasting impact on the hip hop genre. Dr Dre and Snoop are better fits for that bill.
Quote:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Really? Were you in a coma in the 90s? The music scene before and after 1991 was completely different. Before it was hairspray, glitz and glamour, big shiny music. Nevermind took it back to basics. Paved the way for tons of left-of-center bands that, before, were relegated to college radio stations and a small slice of MTV programming in the middle of the night on Sundays.
At first: "I think Miley Cyrus did that horrible thing on purpose"
RWHN: "NOPE!"
Miley Cyrus and entourage: "I did that on purpose"
RWHN: "WELL IT SUCKS ANYWAY".
That's really all there is to what he has to say, can people stop responding to him and shitting up my thread now? I will in the future request that any RWHN posts and any responses to his posts be split from any of my threads, as he has nothing to add to the discussion.
We can't tolerate dissent now can we?
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 08, 2013, 07:10:11 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Well, because they happened along when he was young, and are therefore better. Because now he is old, and things that young people are doing now are no good and not music, or creative.
So like people who claim Pearl Jam is good and/or music?
:lulz:
I know a guy whose youtube account is "PearlJamBlowsGoats" and he's EXACTLY that age.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
At first: "I think Miley Cyrus did that horrible thing on purpose"
RWHN: "NOPE!"
Miley Cyrus and entourage: "I did that on purpose"
RWHN: "WELL IT SUCKS ANYWAY".
That's really all there is to what he has to say, can people stop responding to him and shitting up my thread now? I will in the future request that any RWHN posts and any responses to his posts be split from any of my threads, as he has nothing to add to the discussion.
Bop bags get boring after awhile, true.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 08, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
Vanilla Ice!
Your timeline is fucked. Vanilla Ice's album came out in 1990. Nevermind was late 1991. Nevermind that VI was a one-hit wonder and had no long-lasting impact on the hip hop genre. Dr Dre and Snoop are better fits for that bill.
Quote:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Really? Were you in a coma in the 90s? The music scene before and after 1991 was completely different. Before it was hairspray, glitz and glamour, big shiny music. Nevermind took it back to basics. Paved the way for tons of left-of-center bands that, before, were relegated to college radio stations and a small slice of MTV programming in the middle of the night on Sundays.
Beavis and Butthead killed glam rock. Nirvana was just sort of a pilot fish that wiggled loose.
Holy shit, are you out of touch.
:lulz:
Okay, here's the deal, since you obviously need it spelled out. Nirvana did not revolutionise or unseat or otherwise turn anything on it's ear. Nirvana was picked up as something new. Flavour of the month (that's "month" not "century") Then they were packaged, produced, marketed and generally whored out by record execs who made a fucking killing selling the latest hula hoop to a bunch of children who were bored with roller skates. Nirvana, played the part brilliantly, as Kurt took to the stage and blurted out angsty, media hostile soundbites that shocked the parents and endeared him to the latest crop of teen rebels.
Kinda like Miley Cyrus in that respect.
http://www.musicroom.com/blog/music-news/10-marks-left-by-kurt-cobain-and-nirvana-on-modern-music-makers
http://www.thedepauw.com/mobile/features/cultural-impact-of-nirvana-s-nevermind-still-resonates-today-1.2622475
To not recognize the impact Nirvana had on music is to simply be culturally ignorant.
Turns out RWHN can see into the future and has proof that Miley Cyrus will have NO impact on music.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 12:02:43 AM
Okay, here's the deal, since you obviously need it spelled out. Nirvana did not revolutionise or unseat or otherwise turn anything on it's ear. Nirvana was picked up as something new. Flavour of the month (that's "month" not "century") Then they were packaged, produced, marketed and generally whored out by record execs who made a fucking killing selling the latest hula hoop to a bunch of children who were bored with roller skates. Nirvana, played the part brilliantly, as Kurt took to the stage and blurted out angsty, media hostile soundbites that shocked the parents and endeared him to the latest crop of teen rebels.
Kinda like Miley Cyrus in that respect.
This, and what DOUR said about them being pilot fish that wiggled loose.
What Nirvana did wasn't any kind of new genre. More like garage rock. They sounded like a decent 60's garage band. The MEDIA created "grunge" and a lot of the bands that got called "grunge" will tell you it's a stupid word and there's no such thing. "Grunge" was a swarm of reporters taking pictures of people in ripped jeans and flannel shirts LIKE PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS WORN WHEN THEY'RE NOT ALL DRESSED UP. And Nirvana was just the band that got noticed, or promoted, or whatever. Everybody was sick of perms and spandex and "power ballads" by then anyway. Then Cobain blew his face off and "ZOMG 27 CLUB BLAH BLAH WOOF WOOF".
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 08:43:00 PM
Holy shit, are you out of touch.
:lulz:
Says the guy who is proud of being stuck 2 decades ago.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 09, 2013, 01:18:44 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 08:43:00 PM
Holy shit, are you out of touch.
:lulz:
Says the guy who is proud of being stuck 2 decades ago.
HEY! He listens to SMOOTH JAZZ! :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 08, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
Vanilla Ice!
Your timeline is fucked. Vanilla Ice's album came out in 1990. Nevermind was late 1991. Nevermind that VI was a one-hit wonder and had no long-lasting impact on the hip hop genre. Dr Dre and Snoop are better fits for that bill.
Quote:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Really? Were you in a coma in the 90s? The music scene before and after 1991 was completely different. Before it was hairspray, glitz and glamour, big shiny music. Nevermind took it back to basics. Paved the way for tons of left-of-center bands that, before, were relegated to college radio stations and a small slice of MTV programming in the middle of the night on Sundays.
Beavis and Butthead killed glam rock. Nirvana was just sort of a pilot fish that wiggled loose.
There were dozens of "grunge" bands around long before Nirvana, some of which are still around and kicking. Nirvana was just the one the media loved. I remember when they got big and someone came into my work to interview us youth about the grunge scene. We were like, grunge is dead. When it's being marketed in malls as a fashion statement, the scene is basically over. This is not breaking news.
I remember a lot of people were like, what? Why Nirvana? Out of all the really, really good bands playing the scene, what's up with the "it" band being Nirvana? They were good, for sure. And they weren't like what normally played on top 40 radio, so that was different. But as far as what the NW indie music scene in general had to offer, it was inexplicable because there just wasn't anything to make them, in particular, stand out.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 02:40:44 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 08, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
Vanilla Ice!
Your timeline is fucked. Vanilla Ice's album came out in 1990. Nevermind was late 1991. Nevermind that VI was a one-hit wonder and had no long-lasting impact on the hip hop genre. Dr Dre and Snoop are better fits for that bill.
Quote:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Really? Were you in a coma in the 90s? The music scene before and after 1991 was completely different. Before it was hairspray, glitz and glamour, big shiny music. Nevermind took it back to basics. Paved the way for tons of left-of-center bands that, before, were relegated to college radio stations and a small slice of MTV programming in the middle of the night on Sundays.
Beavis and Butthead killed glam rock. Nirvana was just sort of a pilot fish that wiggled loose.
There were dozens of "grunge" bands around long before Nirvana, some of which are still around and kicking. Nirvana was just the one the media loved. I remember when they got big and someone came into my work to interview us youth about the grunge scene. We were like, grunge is dead. When it's being marketed in malls as a fashion statement, the scene is basically over. This is not breaking news.
I remember a lot of people were like, what? Why Nirvana? Out of all the really, really good bands playing the scene, what's up with the "it" band being Nirvana? They were good, for sure. And they weren't like what normally played on top 40 radio, so that was different. But as far as what the NW indie music scene in general had to offer, it was inexplicable because there just wasn't anything to make them, in particular, stand out.
They were basically misery pop.
Kurt Cobain could write a hook like none of those other bands could, that is one reason they stood out. It wasn't just noise, there was melody. He had a great sense of melody. I mean, really, he had a songwriting genius that few others had, or have had since. They opened doors and paved the path for many alt-rock bands. There hasn't been a band of that significance since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/152444/8_reasons_nirvana's_'nevermind'_is_the_most_important_rock_album_of_all_time
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 09, 2013, 03:28:42 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 02:40:44 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 08, 2013, 01:15:06 PM
Vanilla Ice!
Your timeline is fucked. Vanilla Ice's album came out in 1990. Nevermind was late 1991. Nevermind that VI was a one-hit wonder and had no long-lasting impact on the hip hop genre. Dr Dre and Snoop are better fits for that bill.
Quote:ETA: " They unseated the King of Pop and completely set the entire mainstream music industry on its ear."
What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah, I know, some journo came up with it to pad out his obit to 2000 words but, really, it doesn't actually mean anything.
Really? Were you in a coma in the 90s? The music scene before and after 1991 was completely different. Before it was hairspray, glitz and glamour, big shiny music. Nevermind took it back to basics. Paved the way for tons of left-of-center bands that, before, were relegated to college radio stations and a small slice of MTV programming in the middle of the night on Sundays.
Beavis and Butthead killed glam rock. Nirvana was just sort of a pilot fish that wiggled loose.
There were dozens of "grunge" bands around long before Nirvana, some of which are still around and kicking. Nirvana was just the one the media loved. I remember when they got big and someone came into my work to interview us youth about the grunge scene. We were like, grunge is dead. When it's being marketed in malls as a fashion statement, the scene is basically over. This is not breaking news.
I remember a lot of people were like, what? Why Nirvana? Out of all the really, really good bands playing the scene, what's up with the "it" band being Nirvana? They were good, for sure. And they weren't like what normally played on top 40 radio, so that was different. But as far as what the NW indie music scene in general had to offer, it was inexplicable because there just wasn't anything to make them, in particular, stand out.
They were basically misery pop.
Yeah.
I think it was probably largely because they were really photogenic. And maybe some of Courtney Love's marketing skill.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
Kurt Cobain could write a hook like none of those other bands could, that is one reason they stood out. It wasn't just noise, there was melody. He had a great sense of melody. I mean, really, he had a songwriting genius that few others had, or have had since. They opened doors and paved the path for many alt-rock bands. There hasn't been a band of that significance since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/152444/8_reasons_nirvana's_'nevermind'_is_the_most_important_rock_album_of_all_time
Thread title: Miley Cyrus, Pedobear, and the Hollywood Spectacle
RWHN posts the third example of a media music journo telling us what our opinion should be
Thread over!
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:37:48 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on October 08, 2013, 02:35:57 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 08, 2013, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:25:55 AM. But every decade or so, someone comes along and shoots the kneecap off the current musical scene. They have to; if they didn't, the whole damn thing would go sterile.
Of course, it's usually several people. In this case, it was about 3 people. Rhiana, Lady Gaga, and now this kid. The whole twerk-pop no-effort bullshit scene is now as dead as jazz, and it's long past time.
This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile.
Granted, I'm also in the minority opinion, (on this board), that Lady Gaga is extremely overrated. I mean, she's basically a living mash-up of Madonna and Marilyn Manson. I'll give her that she has a decent voice. Same with Rihanna, who is easily the most talented of the three, but none of them were groundbreaking.
The music industry has long been deperately looking for another big Nirvana-like, sweeping cultural moment. Hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen again, not on THAT scale.
It's way too watered down now. Great music is still being made, to be sure, but not in that big landmark kind of way.
Nirvana was great music? :lol:
Oh my Bob. RWHN is channeling EBS.
Whiny scruffball who wrote some drek and then punked out and offed himself = an artist.
Because penis, that's why.
"WAH WAH WAH I hate being rich and white" ---- Kurt Cobain
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 09, 2013, 12:50:39 AM
Turns out RWHN can see into the future and has proof that Miley Cyrus will have NO impact on music.
Sums up this whole thread.
I, for one, am bitterly disappointed in Kurt Cobain killing himself.
Seriously. Every time some stupid "star" decides to off themselves, you get legions of idiot fans for generations insisting that THE greatest talent ever known is gone. You will never know their like again. Let us entomb ourselves in nostalgia and refuse to face the fact that a good 95%(minimum) of Nirvana's output was total shit. ""In utero" was a classic album" you say. Horseshit, I say. When was the last time you listened to it? Like the rest of nirvana's output, it does not do well against the test of time.
Also, consider how this suicide is responsible for the rise of Dave Grohl and the foo fighters. Fuck those guys. Talk about the very definition of what nirvana was apparently against. Sterile, dull verse/chorus/verse/chorus/chorus next song shite that is fawned over because it shares a tenuous link to something that was apparently culturally significant.
In short, I'd have preferred Kurt to stay alive and live to see how fucking awful everything he truly created is/was. If nothing else it may have stopped Jack Black getting famous. Fuck that guy too. The joke is not funny if you tell it every 5 fucking minutes.
Also, if you consider the impact Vanilla Ice had into getting Rap into the mainstream, he probably is more culturally significant in the long run than Kurt. For example, consider how many white kids today buy rap music compared to grunge/"alternative" music. The key word here is "buy".
Ever hear of The Beastie Boys ?
So you're saying the Beastie Boys are more culturally significant than Nirvana?
That's OK I guess. Seems accurate too.
No, they are more culturally significant for rap than Vanilla Ice. Ice was a one-hit-wonder flavor-of-the month, part of a brief pop-rap movement that also included MC Hammer and MC Young.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
Kurt Cobain could write a hook like none of those other bands could, that is one reason they stood out. It wasn't just noise, there was melody. He had a great sense of melody. I mean, really, he had a songwriting genius that few others had, or have had since. They opened doors and paved the path for many alt-rock bands. There hasn't been a band of that significance since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/152444/8_reasons_nirvana's_'nevermind'_is_the_most_important_rock_album_of_all_time
Thread title: Miley Cyrus, Pedobear, and the Hollywood Spectacle
RWHN posts the third example of a media music journo telling us what our opinion should be
Thread over!
What the hell is wrong with you? Grow a pair. You can have any damned opinion you want, I have mine. I'm doing that thing where you provide evidence to support an opinion. You know, that thing you guys say I don't do in the drug threads.
Jeebus people, it really is okay if people disagree with you. Don't be so damned sensitive.
Music journo opinion piece =/= empirical evidence
Learn to think, moron :argh!:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 11:37:10 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
Kurt Cobain could write a hook like none of those other bands could, that is one reason they stood out. It wasn't just noise, there was melody. He had a great sense of melody. I mean, really, he had a songwriting genius that few others had, or have had since. They opened doors and paved the path for many alt-rock bands. There hasn't been a band of that significance since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/152444/8_reasons_nirvana's_'nevermind'_is_the_most_important_rock_album_of_all_time
Thread title: Miley Cyrus, Pedobear, and the Hollywood Spectacle
RWHN posts the third example of a media music journo telling us what our opinion should be
Thread over!
What the hell is wrong with you? Grow a pair. You can have any damned opinion you want, I have mine. I'm doing that thing where you provide evidence to support an opinion. You know, that thing you guys say I don't do in the drug threads.
Jeebus people, it really is okay if people disagree with you. Don't be so damned sensitive.
It's not the disagreement. It's the monkey screeching and heel digging that's annoying. That and shitting up every thread you post in.
No, it is all y'all's screeching whenever I weigh in on a topic that fucks up threads. Try a little more self-control.
Try understanding that an opinion on music is totally different to ignoring scientific facts about drugs.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 12:24:13 PM
No, it is all y'all's screeching whenever I weigh in on a topic that fucks up threads. Try a little more self-control.
/
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/12_04/clownDM2612_228x307.jpg)
Quote from: Junkenstein on October 09, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
Try understanding that an opinion on music is totally different to ignoring scientific facts about drugs.
In RWHN's world opinions and facts are the same thing - a written or verbal communique instructing him how to think. The guy is a walking appeal to authority, fuck, even his musical taste comes from journalistic "evidence" as illustrated above :lulz:
Quote from: Junkenstein on October 09, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
Try understanding that an opinion on music is totally different to ignoring scientific facts about drugs.
And you have both of those covered, what's your point?
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 11:28:10 AM
No, they are more culturally significant for rap than Vanilla Ice. Ice was a one-hit-wonder flavor-of-the month, part of a brief pop-rap movement that also included MC Hammer and MC Young.
The beastie boys have a very unique style and charisma to their songs, Ice's most recognised song is recognised because he sampled under pressure, and beyond that he contributed nothing to music. I don't like MC Hammer but he is leagues ahead of what vanilla ice brought to the table.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on October 09, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
Try understanding that an opinion on music is totally different to ignoring scientific facts about drugs.
In RWHN's world opinions and facts are the same thing - a written or verbal communique instructing him how to think. The guy is a walking appeal to authority, fuck, even his musical taste comes from journalistic "evidence" as illustrated above :lulz:
My musical tastes come from what I like. However, much has been written during and since the Nirvana era, as far as their immense impact on music and American culture. You don't have to like them to recognize that, it was pretty obvious to anyone who was alive at the time.
Quote from: Faust on October 09, 2013, 12:48:36 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 11:28:10 AM
No, they are more culturally significant for rap than Vanilla Ice. Ice was a one-hit-wonder flavor-of-the month, part of a brief pop-rap movement that also included MC Hammer and MC Young.
The beastie boys have a very unique style and charisma to their songs, Ice's most recognised song is recognised because he sampled under pressure, and beyond that he contributed nothing to music. I don't like MC Hammer but he is leagues ahead of what vanilla ice brought to the table.
I completely agree with everything in this post.
I like Foo Fighters :P
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 09, 2013, 01:40:36 PM
I like Foo Fighters :P
Me too. And Grohl seems like a likable chap. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhdCslFcKFU
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 11:28:10 AM
No, they are more culturally significant for rap than Vanilla Ice. Ice was a one-hit-wonder flavor-of-the month, part of a brief pop-rap movement that also included MC Hammer and MC Young.
Young MC.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on October 09, 2013, 12:25:26 PM
Try understanding that an opinion on music is totally different to ignoring scientific facts about drugs.
In RWHN's world opinions and facts are the same thing - a written or verbal communique instructing him how to think. The guy is a walking appeal to authority, fuck, even his musical taste comes from journalistic "evidence" as illustrated above :lulz:
My musical tastes come from what I like. However, much has been written during and since the Nirvana era, as far as their immense impact on music and American culture. You don't have to like them to recognize that, it was pretty obvious to anyone who was alive at the time.
I was alive at the time, and I was horrified. After a decade of dealing with hair bands, I was ready for some relief...And instead got Cobain whimpering into the mic. For fucking years.
Was he hanging around on your lawn?
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
At first: "I think Miley Cyrus did that horrible thing on purpose"
RWHN: "NOPE!"
Miley Cyrus and entourage: "I did that on purpose"
RWHN: "WELL IT SUCKS ANYWAY".
That's really all there is to what he has to say, can people stop responding to him and shitting up my thread now? I will in the future request that any RWHN posts and any responses to his posts be split from any of my threads, as he has nothing to add to the discussion.
Can someone start a thread that's about whatever it is RWHN wants to talk about, and move all the posts pertaining to that there? Seems to be something about music acts that were pivotal in changing the direction of pop music or something else that I don't actually care about at all.
Ok, I have to weigh in here... The real driving force behind the impact of Nevermind was... Butch Vig.
He grabbed a Pixies wanna-be band, and reworked the sound until it became commercially acceptable. He double-tracked the vocals, used click tracks for the drums, tightened up arrangements, dozens of guitar overdubs, and then calling in Andy Wallace to run all the tracks through as many effects as they could to smooth the rough edges.
Yeah, I said that Nevermind had no rough edges. Listen to Jesus Lizard's Liar or Goat released around the same time, and you'll know what I'm talking about. Kurt even said later that Nevermind "Looking back on the production of Nevermind, I'm embarrassed by it now. It's closer to a Mötley Crüe record than it is a punk rock record."
If Nirvana hadn't brought in Butch, Nevermind would have sounded like Bleach 2. And gone nowhere. Vig, who later went on to produce Smashing Pumpkins, L7, Sonic Youth (Dirty, if you couldn't guess), Soul Asylum, AFI, Jimmy Eat World, Green Day, and Foo Fighters, and of course, Garbage, found a key piece of the puzzle: If you want to make a band mainstream, make them sound mainstream. He showed you could take literally any band and give them commercial appeal if you took away the sharp, buzzy, uncomfortable noises, and made them smooth and palatable.
Again, if anyone wants to argue that Nevermind isn't a soothing album, I can give examples of plenty of albums released in 1991-92 that tear the pants off of that record and grinds it a new asshole.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 11:37:10 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 09, 2013, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 09, 2013, 03:30:49 AM
Kurt Cobain could write a hook like none of those other bands could, that is one reason they stood out. It wasn't just noise, there was melody. He had a great sense of melody. I mean, really, he had a songwriting genius that few others had, or have had since. They opened doors and paved the path for many alt-rock bands. There hasn't been a band of that significance since.
http://www.alternet.org/story/152444/8_reasons_nirvana's_'nevermind'_is_the_most_important_rock_album_of_all_time
Thread title: Miley Cyrus, Pedobear, and the Hollywood Spectacle
RWHN posts the third example of a media music journo telling us what our opinion should be
Thread over!
What the hell is wrong with you? Grow a pair. You can have any damned opinion you want, I have mine. I'm doing that thing where you provide evidence to support an opinion. You know, that thing you guys say I don't do in the drug threads.
Jeebus people, it really is okay if people disagree with you. Don't be so damned sensitive.
Nope. You borrow them from media music journos.
And Nigel's right. This is two threads: One for insightful discussion about Miley and one for smacking RWHN around when we're bored.
http://www.digitalspy.com/celebrity/news/a522304/gloria-steinem-on-miley-cyrus-controversy-blame-the-culture.html
Interesting plot twist...
Gloria fucking Steinhem?
Shit just got real.
In other news, Someone mashed up "Wrecking Ball" and "Nothing Compares 2 U" (http://vimeo.com/76171895), and it totally works. No troll.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 09, 2013, 06:06:53 PM
Gloria fucking Steinhem?
Shit just got real.
In other news, Someone mashed up "Wrecking Ball" and "Nothing Compares 2 U" (http://vimeo.com/76171895), and it totally works. No troll.
Oh I bet Sinead's
livid. :lulz:
I have a thing boiling about the game Miley's not playing. Would you like it here or should I put it over in the Counterpoint thread/
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 09, 2013, 06:06:53 PM
Gloria fucking Steinhem?
Shit just got real.
In other news, Someone mashed up "Wrecking Ball" and "Nothing Compares 2 U" (http://vimeo.com/76171895), and it totally works. No troll.
Oh I bet Sinead's livid. :lulz:
Everyone should check it out now, before Sinead or Prince start with the takedown notices.
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 09, 2013, 06:15:33 PM
I have a thing boiling about the game Miley's not playing. Would you like it here or should I put it over in the Counterpoint thread/
I think the Counterpoint thread, this one's long and getting played out.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
You people have gotten Wrecking Ball stuck in my head for WEEKS, I'll have you know :argh!:
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 09, 2013, 10:43:18 PM
You people have gotten Wrecking Ball stuck in my head for WEEKS, I'll have you know :argh!:
:lulz: I've been singing it for days.
Quote from: stelz on October 09, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
ya I didn't notice until the mash up either. And it looks like dried snot in a few shots.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 10, 2013, 03:33:31 AM
Quote from: stelz on October 09, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
ya I didn't notice until the mash up either. And it looks like dried snot in a few shots.
It's unsexy.
She's doing sexual, but without the sexy. There's no invitation. It's freaking people's shit right out. :lol:
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 10, 2013, 03:33:31 AM
Quote from: stelz on October 09, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
ya I didn't notice until the mash up either. And it looks like dried snot in a few shots.
It's unsexy.
She's doing sexual, but without the sexy. There's no invitation. It's freaking people's shit right out. :lol:
BINGO! This is the distinction I made to my wife when we were discussing Miley the other night. There's sexy and there's sexual, and the two are not necessarily the same. I used Rocky Horror as my example at the time, clearly a sexual show, but not exactly sexy. Miley is certainly NOT trying to be sexy, by my estimation.
Quote from: Hoopla on October 10, 2013, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 10, 2013, 03:33:31 AM
Quote from: stelz on October 09, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
ya I didn't notice until the mash up either. And it looks like dried snot in a few shots.
It's unsexy.
She's doing sexual, but without the sexy. There's no invitation. It's freaking people's shit right out. :lol:
BINGO! This is the distinction I made to my wife when we were discussing Miley the other night. There's sexy and there's sexual, and the two are not necessarily the same. I used Rocky Horror as my example at the time, clearly a sexual show, but not exactly sexy. Miley is certainly NOT trying to be sexy, by my estimation.
Miley promised sexy, but delivered grotesque. This is why America is so fucking angry. They feel ripped off. Plus, they had their mid-life crisis rubbed in their faces, and that's just
rude.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 10, 2013, 09:18:15 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on October 10, 2013, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 10, 2013, 03:33:31 AM
Quote from: stelz on October 09, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 09, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
I just noticed that Miley's nose is running in that video. That's not very pretty, Miley. As a matter of fact, I hadn't really noticed before but her lipstick is badly applied and her mascara is clumpy and coming off in flakes. Like what happens in real life, as opposed to music videos.
Oh, Miley, can't you just be a lady?
I never noticed the snot until the mashup video either. It doesn't show up on youtube.
Which is probably why everybody's not talking about it. Yet. :lulz:
ya I didn't notice until the mash up either. And it looks like dried snot in a few shots.
It's unsexy.
She's doing sexual, but without the sexy. There's no invitation. It's freaking people's shit right out. :lol:
BINGO! This is the distinction I made to my wife when we were discussing Miley the other night. There's sexy and there's sexual, and the two are not necessarily the same. I used Rocky Horror as my example at the time, clearly a sexual show, but not exactly sexy. Miley is certainly NOT trying to be sexy, by my estimation.
Miley promised sexy, but delivered grotesque. This is why America is so fucking angry. They feel ripped off. Plus, they had their mid-life crisis rubbed in their faces, and that's just rude.
You might be onto something there. If she had just gone the usual way for a lot of people in Hollywood and "accidentally" leaked a sex tape, I doubt there would be this much uproar. Hell, the only time I remember even Madonna getting people this riled up was that year she put out Erotica, the Sex book, starred in Body of Evidence, and that expletive-laced tirade on Letterman... she had to work a hell of a lot harder. But then, she hadn't been a Disney kid. I wonder what would've happened if Annette went down this road 50 years ago?
Quote from: Hoopla on October 10, 2013, 09:39:16 PM
But then, she hadn't been a Disney kid. I wonder what would've happened if Annette went down this road 50 years ago?
She would have spent the rest of her horrible, MS-ridden life in therapy.
I mean, come on...Beach Blanket Bingo wasn't even risque for that time period, although:
QuoteWhen she was cast in her first beach movie, Walt Disney requested that she only wear modest bathing suits and keep her navel covered.
WTF? :lulz:
Also, for a 23 and 25 year old, she and Frankie Avalon looked like they were 35, playing teenagers.
For sure. Even as a teen on the Mickey Mouse club she sorta looked like a 40 year old woman. THough, a damn hot one. I can't look at Skippy peanut butter without thinking of her voice. Where was I?
Oh right... Miley.
Quote from: Hoopla on October 10, 2013, 09:47:16 PM
For sure. Even as a teen on the Mickey Mouse club she sorta looked like a 40 year old woman. THough, a damn hot one. I can't look at Skippy peanut butter without thinking of her voice. Where was I?
Oh right... Miley.
This gave rise to the Hollywood trope of having 30-somethings play high school/college students.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 10, 2013, 09:50:58 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on October 10, 2013, 09:47:16 PM
For sure. Even as a teen on the Mickey Mouse club she sorta looked like a 40 year old woman. THough, a damn hot one. I can't look at Skippy peanut butter without thinking of her voice. Where was I?
Oh right... Miley.
This gave rise to the Hollywood trope of having 30-somethings play high school/college students.
Grease is a particularly egregious example. Rizzo, bless her wicked heart, looks 40ish.