Throughout the last few years of my life, there's been a certain struggle in me, between the romantic that's ready to fall in love with the world, and squeeze it in a big hug and the cynic that skeptically laughs at the huge mess that's everything. I never really managed to identify it until recently and the romantic was usually dominating, with the cynic being a little voice in the back of my mind, that I considered, let's say tasteless.
About a month ago I bought a pill from this Iranian guy, who sells everything but mdma in pill form, still insisting every time in broken bulgarian that his pills are of the purest mdma and mdma only. The fun thing about buying from this guy is that you never know what you're going to get and his pills are often research chemicals or funny, trippy shit.
One day, I was on the afterglow from a pure molly trip and mdma really brings out the romantic, making me see life for all it's beauty and celebrating it and all that hippy shit. I knew when I decided to buy from this guy, that what I was buying would be a random pill and the effects would be interesting (atleast he never sells shit that's dangerous or tries to warn you when it is). The pill was a white one with a playboy bunny stamp. The dealer told me in broken bulgarian "Take only half pill, or too much love it makes feel bad". In the moment I tasted it it reminded me of some 2c-b pills I had eaten a few months ago, but that were not nearly as strong as this one.
As the pill started taking effect, I started feeling electricity all over my body. I was feeling as if my neurons were being pulled in all directions and my nervous system was firing random signals. Then I proceeded to vomit uncontrollably (took the whole pill - as bad as the effects are, I prefer a full trip). After a few puffs of weed the nausea settled back and what took over me was a feeling I couldn't really classify. I decided to listen to AC/DC since it seemed to fit in with the fact that I was feeling like I was on a fucking electric chair. The trip proceeded and about an hour in, I had managed to specify the feeling - it was cynicism. My whole trip was an overdose of cynicism and it felt amazing.
I really sunk in the emotion, enjoying it throughout - the cynic that had been silenced for so long was finally out, seeing the world for the mess, that it is with shit, smugged all over everything and I found it fucking hilarious. Everything was so absurd - meaning of life? What the fuck was I thinking, searching for it? Life's a fucking joke and everything but laughter would be inadequate - a greyface just doesn't get it, gets trapped, unable to recognize the obvious irony. The romantic inside was dead and he seemed so silly, thinking he has an answer to everything, and that being unable to find one is a problem. The cynic was enjoying the fuck out of all the disorder and chaos and all the absurdity and the lack of justice and the unanswered questions. Why should you be so fucking special, why should you have the answers - just accept it, you're no more or less important than every other human being, or animal or rock or pile of shit and you're as blind as they all are to the grand scheme of things.
Ever since that trip, I've learned how important it is not to let the romantic strangle my perceptions about the world, I've been living in a sort of a romantic cynicism - life feels more like a game, or a dark comedy, where I just poke different buttons on the controller to see what's happening. The trip also helped me personally understand discordianism better, I think that it deffinetly has a cynical undertone, with the bitter-sweet comedy that everything is.
I really fucking hope that this thread won't turn into a new drug thread :fnord:
At certain times I've been in a wild perspective which is equally 100% romantic and 100% cynical and the two are one and the same. Full of laughter that is equally shrugging and loving. I know what you mean when you say the cynicism feels so good. I think that kind of cynicism can help a person to realize they should just go for what they want in this whirl of dust we call life - and the romanticism can do the same, with a lens of proper prescription.
interesting story.
when you say cynicism, does that include a disbelief in the basic goodness of people?
I think you might really mean "Absurdism" as in the Camus usage.
Ah yeah. that's what I meant anyway.
Hmmm, I don't know, maybe the word has different meaning in english, what I meant to describe was a dark-comedy like feeling.
For example:
Whenever I'm on a new drug, I like experimenting with it, and every time I spend some time to do a few prana-yama excercises as I've found out they really enhance the feeling of drugs. While I was tripping even the idea of prana-yama and everything related seemed as hippy bullshit. This point of view is what I refer to as cynicism - the overwhelming feeling that it's all bullshit.
I'm too fucking sleepy to give a better explenation sorry
Or the feeling you get when you read a Frédéric Beigbeder book
Drugs are not Slack. Drugs are another ism, no matter which side of the fence you are on.
Also, hippie shit is hippie shit. You've got a great brain, why not put it to use, instead of wrapping it in crap? Actually USING it is a challenge, and therefore more satisfying than the chemical equivalent of Three's Company.
And it's not just a drug thing. It's the self-indulgence end of things. Same as people who waste their lives babbling about homeopathy, Nibiru, chemtrails, and other bullshit.
There's a real world out there that's WAY more interesting than mental wanking, which all of the above is.
(Note: I'm not against drug use, if you're just wanting to kick back and get fucked up. But to pretend that it's more than that is WANKERY.)
TGRR isn't slack, but TGRR has helped me realize at times what slack means and how I can make it for myself.
Anything that gets your perspective workin' in a different way can be similar.
It's not the goal, but it can be part of the journey.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 12:00:47 AM
TGRR isn't slack, but TGRR has helped me realize at times what slack means and how I can make it for myself.
Anything that gets your perspective workin' in a different way can be similar.
It's not the goal, but it can be part of the journey.
Everyone is their own fucking Slack. But there's Slack and there's False Slack.
Okay, so you have a brain. You have a few choices:
1. You can stuff it full of amazing, like Kai, who grew up to be a entemologist. Or Nigel, who grew up to be an artist and then a social scientist (in training, anyway). Or LMNO, whose head is full of quantums, so you can't tell what he's thinking unless you crack his skull open (but then the cat dies).
2. You can fill your head full of make-believe bullshit, because you want to give yourself or others the impression that you did the above, without having to work at it, or
3. You can stuff it full of drugs and/or bad teevee, which is essentially the same as eating 2 Big Macs at every meal. You can even tell yourself that you're EXPANDING YOUR MIND. Fuck off, you're just getting fucked up. And there's nothing WRONG with that, but don't pretend to some kind of mystic bullshit. Be honest about it. You're doing what every po'bucker does with cheap beer, only with shitty drugs.
there's not such a thick boundary between acquiring Pleasure and acquiring Knowledge like you're pretending there is. plenty of activities achieve both.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 03:53:09 AM
there's not such a thick boundary between acquiring Pleasure and acquiring Knowledge like you're pretending there is. plenty of activities achieve both.
Yeah? Sitting around taking anonymous pills, as described, and then doing some yoga?
I call 169% bullshit. Absolute rubbish.
[semantic]
You're going to have to set up your terms and definitions as to what you mean by "knowledge".
[/semantic]
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 05:01:14 PM
[semantic]
You're going to have to set up your terms and definitions as to what you mean by "knowledge".
[/semantic]
I'm using the traditional sense of the word. They're apparently using the definition most often found at Burning Man, Grateful Dead Concerts, and Psychic Fairs.
The last time I acquired pleasure, I also acquired the knowledge that Speyside 21-year scotch is fucking awesome. I also acquired the knowledge that drag superstar Sharon Needles smells good.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 05:11:30 PM
The last time I acquired pleasure, I also acquired the knowledge that Speyside 21-year scotch is fucking awesome. I also acquired the knowledge that drag superstar Sharon Needles smells good.
Okay, I give up.
Dalek, spend all your time banging mystery pills into every exit wound. You'll be the next Einstien in NO time.
Boy, is MY face red. Here I spent my whole life trying to figure out how machinery works, and how people's heads work, and ALL I HAD TO DO WAS TAKE DRUGS, and I would have learned all that shit by mahdjgickque.
Drugs can be fun. They can even be useful. But a common pitfall is that because they put your mind in an altered state, they can very convincingly lead you to believe that you have gained incredible knowledge and wisdom about the world that, actually, is just you being real fuckin' high.
People who fall into that pitfall are usually very threatened by people who have gained knowledge about the world the traditional way, through studying and experience, because it may contradict what they think they've learned from their drug experience and force them to acknowledge that they were actually just tripping.
Which is why they call it "tripping" when someone is way the fuck off base and talking out their ass.
Quote from: CAKE on November 09, 2012, 05:33:56 PM
Drugs can be fun. They can even be useful. But a common pitfall is that because they put your mind in an altered state, they can very convincingly lead you to believe that you have gained incredible knowledge and wisdom about the world that, actually, is just you being real fuckin' high.
People who fall into that pitfall are usually very threatened by people who have gained knowledge about the world the traditional way, through studying and experience, because it may contradict what they think they've learned from their drug experience and force them to acknowledge that they were actually just tripping.
Which is why they call it "tripping" when someone is way the fuck off base and talking out their ass.
All of the above. They CAN be useful for certain things.
But another thing is that they tend, in large (or in the case of the OP, UNKNOWN) doses or types, to fuck your head up. Depression-fueled cynicism, dementia, and general lassitude towards accomplishing anything in your short existence on this planet.
So, yeah. Like television.
Rog, I was just being snarky at chimes. When I'm fucked up, I learn things about being fucked up. None of it translates into IRL stuff.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 05:37:58 PM
Rog, I was just being snarky at chimes. When I'm fucked up, I learn things about being fucked up. None of it translates into IRL stuff.
And that's about the short & skinny of it.
As I said earlier:
QuoteEveryone is their own fucking Slack. But there's Slack and there's False Slack.
Okay, so you have a brain. You have a few choices:
1. You can stuff it full of amazing, like Kai, who grew up to be a entemologist. Or Nigel, who grew up to be an artist and then a social scientist (in training, anyway). Or LMNO, whose head is full of quantums, so you can't tell what he's thinking unless you crack his skull open (but then the cat dies).
2. You can fill your head full of make-believe bullshit, because you want to give yourself or others the impression that you did the above, without having to work at it, or
3. You can stuff it full of drugs and/or bad teevee, which is essentially the same as eating 2 Big Macs at every meal. You can even tell yourself that you're EXPANDING YOUR MIND. Fuck off, you're just getting fucked up. And there's nothing WRONG with that, but don't pretend to some kind of mystic bullshit. Be honest about it. You're doing what every po'bucker does with cheap beer, only with shitty drugs.
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 03:53:09 AM
there's not such a thick boundary between acquiring Pleasure and acquiring Knowledge like you're pretending there is. plenty of activities achieve both.
Yeah? Sitting around taking anonymous pills, as described, and then doing some yoga?
I call 169% bullshit. Absolute rubbish.
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Let's look at another perspective-changing activity - for example, once when I posted a piece, Nigel reminded me to look at it as the audience is seeing it, not as I'm seeing it. That's a technique that helps me learn every time I do it. It's not automatically/directly bringing me knowledge, but it's changing how I look at things so that I might pick up some new knowledge based on how effectively I use the technique. Usually that is a pleasurable experience, too.
There's no reason the experience of learning can't be accompanied by pleasure or vice versa.
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 05:37:45 PM
But another thing is that they tend, in large (or in the case of the OP, UNKNOWN) doses or types, to fuck your head up. Depression-fueled cynicism, dementia, and general lassitude towards accomplishing anything in your short existence on this planet.
And what if a dose did the opposite? Clarified things and inspired someone to get off their ass and accomplish, well past the duration of the high?
Tripping is something everybody should experience, and it can blow a little bullshit out of the tubes. I'd love to see Pat Robertson on shrooms, though most of that would be for my OWN entertainment. :lol:
But aside from that, I'm in agreement with Roger, LMNO and Nigel. Don't think it's anything but tripping. Oh, and if you decide to disregad this and head for Rainbow Gathering tardism by doing it on a regular basis and thinking it MEANS anything, at least cut the mystery/faux mdma out and try sticking with stuff that grows out of the ground.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 03:53:09 AM
there's not such a thick boundary between acquiring Pleasure and acquiring Knowledge like you're pretending there is. plenty of activities achieve both.
Yeah? Sitting around taking anonymous pills, as described, and then doing some yoga?
I call 169% bullshit. Absolute rubbish.
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Let's look at another perspective-changing activity - for example, once when I posted a piece, Nigel reminded me to look at it as the audience is seeing it, not as I'm seeing it. That's a technique that helps me learn every time I do it. It's not automatically/directly bringing me knowledge, but it's changing how I look at things so that I might pick up some new knowledge based on how effectively I use the technique. Usually that is a pleasurable experience, too.
There's no reason the experience of learning can't be accompanied by pleasure or vice versa.
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 05:37:45 PM
But another thing is that they tend, in large (or in the case of the OP, UNKNOWN) doses or types, to fuck your head up. Depression-fueled cynicism, dementia, and general lassitude towards accomplishing anything in your short existence on this planet.
And what if a dose did the opposite? Clarified things and inspired someone to get off their ass and accomplish, well past the duration of the high?
That can happen, for sure, but it's not how you typically wanna bet. "Hey, maybe eating this unknown substance will somehow spontaneously inspire me get me off my ass and stop me being a fuckup!"
Ummm yeah.
Even the known substances which are supposed to accomplish that are kind of a crapshoot.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Oh, my goodness! How did the goalposts get all the way over
there!?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Oh, my goodness! How did the goalposts get all the way over there!?
:lulz:
I'll say one thing about being at PD for the last *cough* years: I can spot one of the more basic fallacies a mile off.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 04:54:50 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 03:53:09 AM
there's not such a thick boundary between acquiring Pleasure and acquiring Knowledge like you're pretending there is. plenty of activities achieve both.
Yeah? Sitting around taking anonymous pills, as described, and then doing some yoga?
I call 169% bullshit. Absolute rubbish.
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Let's look at another perspective-changing activity - for example, once when I posted a piece, Nigel reminded me to look at it as the audience is seeing it, not as I'm seeing it. That's a technique that helps me learn every time I do it. It's not automatically/directly bringing me knowledge, but it's changing how I look at things so that I might pick up some new knowledge based on how effectively I use the technique. Usually that is a pleasurable experience, too.
There's no reason the experience of learning can't be accompanied by pleasure or vice versa.
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 05:37:45 PM
But another thing is that they tend, in large (or in the case of the OP, UNKNOWN) doses or types, to fuck your head up. Depression-fueled cynicism, dementia, and general lassitude towards accomplishing anything in your short existence on this planet.
And what if a dose did the opposite? Clarified things and inspired someone to get off their ass and accomplish, well past the duration of the high?
Observational data indicates that they mostly stay on their asses. Eating Cheetohs.
The only lasting effect I've had from drugs was an idea that people should be nicer to each other. Which lasted about three days, or the next time I had to drive in traffic, whichever came first.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 06:37:23 PM
The only lasting effect I've had from drugs was an idea that people should be nicer to each other. Which lasted about three days, or the next time I had to drive in traffic, whichever came first.
TRAFFIC: MY ANTI-DRUG.
I'm THE most enthusiastic/romantic person in my world. I'm constantly taking outrageous degrees of pleasure in the simplest little shit I come across. I try to look at the world through the eyes of the little kid that I used to be, the little cunt that's still in there somewhere. I laugh and run around in circles and experience the whole thing wild eyed and full of awe and wonder.
I'm THE most cynical person in pretty much everyone else's world. I don't expect anything to ever work out for anyone and I find it hilarious when it doesn't. It's dumb, it's retarded and damn near everyone has it back asswards. I'd clue them in but fuck'em they wouldn't listen and I'm too busy having fun to point out that painting it all gray is what's pissing them off in the first place.
I realise that it's the same world but, luckily for me, I got a twisted, fucked up lense on it that stops me seeing it "how it really is"
I'll be dead soon, take comfort in that if you must. I'll learn the horrible truth then, no doubt
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Oh, my goodness! How did the goalposts get all the way over there!?
That was re: Things that give pleasure and knowledge. but i get now that that wasn't the point being contested.
In re: Drugs helping someone learn... Look at caffeine for example. Tell me that can't help you focus and learn. In re: Certain other/hallucinogenic drugs, it's just going to come down to anecdotes > anecdotes, so yeah fuck that...
In re: OP ingesting unknown drugs in quantities greater than advised by the damn dealer... FUCK THAT TOO.
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 07:15:18 PM
In re: OP ingesting unknown drugs in quantities greater than advised by the damn dealer... FUCK THAT TOO.
If you're dumb enough to do it, I'm dumb enough to laugh at your twitching corpse :lulz:
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 07:15:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 09, 2012, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: chimes on November 09, 2012, 05:56:56 PM
Well, for example for me, studying geology does both. Most hobbies build your knowledge about that hobby.
Oh, my goodness! How did the goalposts get all the way over there!?
That was re: Things that give pleasure and knowledge. but i get now that that wasn't the point being contested.
In re: Drugs helping someone learn... Look at caffeine for example. Tell me that can't help you focus and learn. In re: Certain other/hallucinogenic drugs, it's just going to come down to anecdotes > anecdotes, so yeah fuck that...
In re: OP ingesting unknown drugs in quantities greater than advised by the damn dealer... FUCK THAT TOO.
Quote from: CAKE on November 09, 2012, 05:33:56 PM
Drugs can be fun. They can even be useful.
Quote from: Mitt Romney's Favorite Wife on November 09, 2012, 05:37:45 PM
They CAN be useful for certain things.
Looks like we all agree, then.
Actually totally overlooked that line from Roger. :lol: my brain is trolling me...
If you sing and dance constantly, extolling the virtues of this chemical or that, it's just another ism. I take pot, alcohol and cancer-free nicotine but I don't harp on about it like its the answer to life, the universe and everything. It turns me into a maniacal idiot and I like that occasionally.
Dalek is perfectly free to put what the fuck he likes into his body, in the pursuit of whatever the fuck it is he's looking for. If that's all he's going to talk about, tho, he's another boring stoner burnout. They get a bit cracked-record after you've met a couple of hundred of them.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 09, 2012, 08:29:17 PM
If you sing and dance constantly, extolling the virtues of this chemical or that, it's just another ism. I take pot, alcohol and cancer-free nicotine but I don't harp on about it like its the answer to life, the universe and everything. It turns me into a maniacal idiot and I like that occasionally.
Dalek is perfectly free to put what the fuck he likes into his body, in the pursuit of whatever the fuck it is he's looking for. If that's all he's going to talk about, tho, he's another boring stoner burnout. They get a bit cracked-record after you've met a couple of hundred of them.
:motorcycle: