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[And your stance is stupid.]

And your stance is stupid. Your stance is saying we have no way of knowing whether or not we'll float into space tomorrow because we don't know what will happen tomorrow because we haven't seen it. Belief is not a bad word, unevidenced belief is bad, unwavering belief is bad. Scientists have beliefs you fucking morons, we're not vapid airheads who say nothing is knowable. We know that that if I inject air into your bloodstream that you'll have a heart attack. Its' not some 50/50 chance bullshit. It is known, it is what fucking happens. We know that if, as GA pointed out, that if certain parts of the brain are removed that people lose abilities. Just look at people who've had lobotomies. If I were to cut out your motor cortex, congratulations, you're not moving, if I were to remove your occipital lobe, congratulations, you're never going to see anything again, ever. To even consider the ethereal, prove the god damn thing even exists in the first place, until then, you're just masturbating.

And Hawk, prove what exactly? That when the heart can't deliver oxygenated blood to the brain that it's deprived of oxygen? Nobody has ever been revived from cellular death, you're no different.

I think we are done. Thanks for your professionally scientific responses.

And your stance is stupid. Your stance is saying we have no way of knowing whether or not we'll float into space tomorrow because we don't know what will happen tomorrow because we haven't seen it. Belief is not a bad word, unevidenced belief is bad, unwavering belief is bad. Scientists have beliefs you fucking morons, we're not vapid airheads who say nothing is knowable. We know that that if I inject air into your bloodstream that you'll have a heart attack. Its' not some 50/50 chance bullshit. It is known, it is what fucking happens. We know that if, as GA pointed out, that if certain parts of the brain are removed that people lose abilities. Just look at people who've had lobotomies. If I were to cut out your motor cortex, congratulations, you're not moving, if I were to remove your occipital lobe, congratulations, you're never going to see anything again, ever. To even consider the ethereal, prove the god damn thing even exists in the first place, until then, you're just masturbating.

And Hawk, prove what exactly? That when the heart can't deliver oxygenated blood to the brain that it's deprived of oxygen? Nobody has ever been revived from cellular death, you're no different.

[IS]

I'm out of here. You scientists have your beliefs. I don't. Nuff said

Our beliefs give the world things like medicine, computers, and automobiles, we win.

Evidence.

I died on the operating table 2 times in '07. There were no bright lights, no collective conscience, no family waiting with smiles.

Conclusion; there ain't shit when we die.

Does this make a case for proof or is it an isolated incident?

Fact; we still don't know shit about what happens after we die.

THIS IS HOW EVIDENCE WORKS.

Otherwise it's all a bunch of speculation somebody made up.

No, that's not useful, you were not neurologically dead, your brain was oxygen starved and unreliable.

Meh. A lot of talk going on about something we know nothing about.

Evidence required; A dead person come back to tell us what happens, all else is speculation. IMO.

Fail, not how evidence works. I don't have to personally witness an event to figure out what happened. There are proxies for discovering that. Like, we know from fMRI scans of the brain that thoughts are due to electric and chemical impulses, so, you remove the ability for it to be transmitted, and you lose the thought. We know how memories are formed, for an example of how, there's long term potentiation. This is chemistry, if you remove the chemicals, no more memory. Like, I can figure out the mechanism of a chemical reaction, but I can't ever observe it directly. I can observe the start of it, I can observe the end result. I can change the chemical environment to disrupt the pathway I think is happening to see if it works or not, but I can't ever see the actual reaction. And yet, I can tell you the mechanism and how the electrons are moving and this information can be used to make new things. I can map evolutionary histories despite not being there, I can look at the fossils, I can look at the genes, I can map out ERVs and compare protein sequences. I don't have to be there to know what happened. This is the same kind of inference and the same kind of reasoning.

Oh, and for the email analogy, the cords are hardware, they send the message, not that far off from an axon. It has to be stored somewhere in some physical medium, remove that and you lost the email.

If you change the brain, you change the consciousness, therefore it follows that if you remove the brain, you remove the consciousness. To use the knot analogy, the knot is not the rope, but you can't have the knot without the rope. Consciousness may not necessarily be the brain, but you can't have it without the brain. Life is not the body, it's the processes the body does, but you can't have these processes without the body. You need the hardware to have the software.

 

Also, I will hijack this thread for SCIENCE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNxgm3tdG0&feature=player_embedded]]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNxgm3tdG0&feature=player_embedded

Unless you already have experience cleaning up this kind of thing, I'd suggest you don't do it by yourself. Oil is toxic, you may need safety gear you don't possess. Not to mention that you very well could end up doing more harm than good with attempts to clean it up.

Personally, I love this. I love it almost as much as I love their emergency equipment supplier.

That would require planning ahead in the budget though.  Something that seems to be beyond the comprehension of politicians.

I'd also blame it on the voters. We're the idiots who demand that the government pay back any surplus revenues when times are good instead of holding it in reserve for when the economy goes boom, and then when it does go boom we wonder why the fuck there's deficit spending.

You are also one of the few people on the board actually opposed to the use of drugs, as opposed to the identification of the self as a drug user.  I have no problem with drinking tim hortons coffee...

I'm confused now, considering that caffeine is something like the number one used recreational drug.

Cutting programs that help the poor seems like a good way to worsen the recession to me.

But we all know that poor people are horrible, horrible sub-humans who rot everything they touch.

Zappa

Allow your kid to go to the damn church. Let them know what you think and why, but don't force your kids to believe what you do. You're a parent, your job is to give unconditional support and be the one place where they can always go for help. That's the problem with teaching people to think for themselves, they won't agree with you on everything.

Oh, a botfly, is that all?

Protip: nature is fucking scary and wants to eat you.

Mr. President, I want to see blood.