Someone asked me to give a shit the other day. "About what?" I asked.
"About the state of the world, globalisation, global warming, terrorism, the plight of the humpback whale..."
"Why should I give a flying fuck about any of that?" I enquired
"Because," I was told patronisingly, "it affects you."
"Beg to differ." I responded, in an equally patronising tone "I'm happy ergo none of it has affected me."
"But it will affect you, real soon if you don't do something about it now."
"Listen sunshine." I replied, "I bought that shit during the cold war. We were all going to die in the next week or so. I did my bit, I joined CND, I went to demos, I spent 3 or 4 years of my life depressed out my tits, refusing to make any plans cos there was no point, we were prolly going to die tomorrow."
Guess what? I'm still here. Oh but that's right the cold war was just an elabourate sham, it never ammounted to anything. Of course now the threat is very real. Terrorists will have nukes soon and theyll blow us up, for definite this time. Global warming is going to make the planet uninhabitable within the next 45 minutes.
Sorry but I just aint buying it. So some rag headed fuckwit with a fatwa attitude might nuke me tomorrow. I might get hit by a bus, cancer, a serial killer could get me... there's a whole bunch of shit that might affect me in the very near future but I point blank refuse to get pissed off about it now, in fact, if I am going to die tomorrow it's all the more reason not to let it spoil my last day here.
Fact is that getting pissed off about the state of the world never changed anything. We celebrated when the soviet union fell and the wall came down but what happened? It all got worse. Actually it never got worse - it stayed exactly the same and thats the trap that the political activist digs for himself. He puts on a balaclava, grabs a packard and sets about changing whatever it is that is depressing the shit out him today then, as soon as it's changed he changes plackards and starts fighting whatever replaced it. And so on and so forth until eventually, horror of horror, he dies anyway. It's a never ending cycle of perceived threat after perceived threat. What do you want to get pissed off about today?
Truth is I don't want to get pissed off today. I'm perfectly happy to wait and be pissed off tomorrow, or the day after or next year. In fact the longer I can put off being pissed off the better as far as I'm concerned. And, lo and behold, if I don't seem to be perfectly happy, despite the fact that I should have been killed, imprisoned by fascists, had my books burned and been half dead by now, from radiation, pesticides, global warming and fuck knows what all else.
"But you're just living in denial"
Fine. I'm prepared to accept that. But I'm happy in denial. You, on the other hand, are miserable and, guess what? We're both going to die tomorrow! Don't you feel the least little bit stupid?
I have no problems if people want to be apathetic. They just shouldn't flaunt in my face at every opportunity.
Cain,
has been affected by terrorism, by increased government powers and doesn't feel the need to explain himself to anyone or anything else.
I've suffered my fair share of depressing shit. The choice I had to make was to come out smiling or come out frowning. I chose the former.
Quote from: Cain on November 03, 2006, 12:04:49 PM
I have no problems if people want to be apathetic. They just shouldn't flaunt in my face at every opportunity.
And vice versa. I hear a lot more from people who have a cause to crusade than people who are just enjoying their life. Hence the rant.
Hard to come out smiling when your family is dragged into a smear campaign because your father reported the facts he was meant to and did his job. Hard to smile when you have to fly on a semi-regular basis and are searched every time. Hard to smile when a relationship was ruined because of murderous thugs both in and out of power. But I forgot, I should be a useless bliss-ninny and pretend everything is alright, shouldn't I? Just because lube is sometimes applied before the fucking over doesn't mean I should smile and enjoy it.
Oh yeah--- I forgot about your solipsistic nihilism, silly.
Dumb bastard. There's a difference between seeing the big picture for what it is, and not giving a shit about anything but yourself.
"The password is-- COMPASSION."
Compassion is a sticky one for me. No matter how hard I try not to care I just can't do it. I feel for the people who are determined to wallow in misery. Maybe it's cos I've been there - clinical depression is no joke but you gotta laugh. Mom and stepdad drowning and the 6-oclock news refusing to let you forget about it is no joke but you gotta laugh. Being given a brain which doesn't work properly in a way which most folks take for granted is no joke....
What's the solution? Get depressed with them or try make light of the situation and spread a little laughter? Either way I'm fucked. No matter how hard I try not to I end up caring. Don't even think about lecturing me on compassion. I already got that monkey stuck to my back.
I laugh. Just at other things. Politics makes me depressed, I freely admit it. Doesn't mean I still don't get joy from listening to a wonderful piece of music, a well written book, an expertly preformed mindfuck or a night out on the town with friends.
This is the point I'm (as usual) completely arsing up trying to make. You can either get depressed (I use 'pissed off' because depression is something completely different to me) or you can be happy. Given that most of the conflicts in this world seem to arise from people getting pissed off, maybe being happy is the answer.
Of course maybe there is no answer. Maybe it's a trick question. The only tactic I've found of any use to me is to take a step back and laugh at myself at the point where I'm wallowing in the pits of despair. I've found that 'm funny when I'm in pain and seeing the joke helps me not be in pain anymore. Getting pissed off about the pain doesn't.
Depression was probably a bad word, pissed off is in fact a much better description. Sure, you can stand back, but thats playing into the role. Look at TV, the papers, radio. Authority wants to make itself all-powerful and all knowing, a Leviathan that cannot be defeated, be it a terrorist group or New Labour. "Institutions are good, people are bad." Apathy works as well as fear, because there is no resistance.
I know different. I've talked with these people, I know who they are. I know that at the heart of every mechanical system there are a few humans who are fallible and fuck up. Who have their own wants, desire and fears.
You may want to read "The Analyst" by Kratzenbach. Too many films and books today have the main character as either an authority figure or saved by one. The main character in this book, when under assault, didn't become a victim, he turned the game around and became the predator. It doesn't have to be that dramatic. All I aim to be is a thorn in the side of the powers that be and upset them in any way I can. One of the main movers behind the American Revolution started off in a very similar way, writing angry editorials in a Boston newspaper.
Sure, it didn't last. But what does? It was good while it did and for a while, there was a place that held personal liberty as a high value, maybe the highest. Once something has been done, it can be done again. And even if it never happens, I'll be happy I have at least made the plans of some aneristic son of a bitch a failure. Anything else is a victory for the other side, and Australians don't like coming second place.
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 03, 2006, 01:41:04 PM
Compassion is a sticky one for me. No matter how hard I try not to care I just can't do it. I feel for the people who are determined to wallow in misery. Maybe it's cos I've been there - clinical depression is no joke but you gotta laugh. Mom and stepdad drowning and the 6-oclock news refusing to let you forget about it is no joke but you gotta laugh. Being given a brain which doesn't work properly in a way which most folks take for granted is no joke....
What's the solution? Get depressed with them or try make light of the situation and spread a little laughter? Either way I'm fucked. No matter how hard I try not to I end up caring. Don't even think about lecturing me on compassion. I already got that monkey stuck to my back.
Nothing in your rant indicated compassion. If that's the point you were trying to make, you're pretty much advocating it's opposite.
I agree about staying on top of it all and not letting it get you down, but not through the examples/explainations you gave.
Quote from: Cain on November 03, 2006, 02:18:30 PM
Depression was probably a bad word, pissed off is in fact a much better description. Sure, you can stand back, but thats playing into the role. Look at TV, the papers, radio. Authority wants to make itself all-powerful and all knowing, a Leviathan that cannot be defeated, be it a terrorist group or New Labour. "Institutions are good, people are bad." Apathy works as well as fear, because there is no resistance.
I know different. I've talked with these people, I know who they are. I know that at the heart of every mechanical system there are a few humans who are fallible and fuck up. Who have their own wants, desire and fears.
You may want to read "The Analyst" by Kratzenbach. Too many films and books today have the main character as either an authority figure or saved by one. The main character in this book, when under assault, didn't become a victim, he turned the game around and became the predator. It doesn't have to be that dramatic. All I aim to be is a thorn in the side of the powers that be and upset them in any way I can. One of the main movers behind the American Revolution started off in a very similar way, writing angry editorials in a Boston newspaper.
Sure, it didn't last. But what does? It was good while it did and for a while, there was a place that held personal liberty as a high value, maybe the highest. Once something has been done, it can be done again. And even if it never happens, I'll be happy I have at least made the plans of some aneristic son of a bitch a failure. Anything else is a victory for the other side, and Australians don't like coming second place.
Don't you think that by knowing what you know you have already defeated them? Allow me to explain my position. I see power as an illusion. Those who seek to be powerful (the only aim any 'great leader' has whether he realises it or not) are buying into this illusion and the only way they can pursue power is to convince others of the lie that is power. By seeing the monster and devoting your efforts to destroying it you are, in fact, feeding the illusion. I do what the girl did at the end of Nightmare on Elm St.1 did - turn my back on them, ignore them do not feed their ravenous hunger with my own projected contribution.
There was an election in this country a few years back and they ran an ad on Teevee - "please vote" (hardly anyone had bothered to turn up at the previous one) This was my victory. Do not justify their petty machinations with your hard earned contempt - they feed on hate as much as any other emotion. My 'apathy' probably makes them think they have me beat but the truth is they can't beat me because their victory is the hollow pursuit of the megalomaniac. I simply don't care if they think they have me beat for their victory is meaningless in my eyes.
They lock people like me up and still we're free. Free from their lies. Free to think thoughts that they don't want us thinking. Because we don't buy their bullshit in the first place means we have already defeated them. So a few of them will fuck people over and get massive great piles of material wealth. They're still nothing more than very rich fuckheads. Material wealth means nothing. I'd rather starve to death, a free man than get fat on the shit they feed me.
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
I call bullshit, ITT.
Apathy = lazy, and uncaring.
There's a difference between avoiding the traps of The Machine,Ñ¢, and simply letting it crush yourself and other people under it's treads.
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 02:51:39 PM
Nothing in your rant indicated compassion.  If that's the point you were trying to make, you're pretty much advocating it's opposite.
I agree about staying on top of it all and not letting it get you down, but not through the examples/explainations you gave.
Look at the title of this thread - I'm the political activist and this is my pitiful whine. I just happen to take a different approach than waving banners and blowing up fast food chains.
Since when did "political activism == not giving a shit"?
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 03:03:58 PM
Since when did "political activism == not giving a shit"?
Precisely what I wondered. I can ignore the CoN all I want. But I still get searched regulary. My father is still denied promotions which would allow use to pay off the mortgage and live with more freedom from financial constraints. So long as these people have the power to affect what is around me, then they are going to be a problem.
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 03:03:58 PM
Since when did "political activism == not giving a shit"?
Since every other approach failed miserably. The 'machine', as you put it, is not what you think it is. It's roots are deeper, way down into the atomic structure of the universe. Reality itself is the real con. And it's each one of us that makes it happen. Whichever side of whichever political argument you care to sit on. All you're doing is fuelling the fire. Action cannot change this for action is of this. Every revolutionary in history either died trying or became the thing thing he hated most when victory took hold of him.
The goal of political activism is to cause change. I maintain that the only way to do this is to let go. Take the example of Ghandi, he led by inaction and he, of almost everyone in history accomplished the most profound change.
Ghandi gave a shit.
What he didn't do was fight force with force.
Wu wei =/= sitting around with your finger up your ass.
LMNO
-wonders how many different ways there are to say this.
PS - please read the Machine,Ñ¢ pamphlet at the BIP.
I figured writing this would kick off a debate. I figured I might 'win' or 'lose'. I figured that my victory or defeat meant nothing to me - it was the taking part that mattered. So I admit it - You're right, I'm wrong, apologies to any feathers ruffled. The answer I was looking for came in another thread:
Quote from: LHX on November 03, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
trying to figure out a way not to be frustrated at the situation would be the same as killing yourself anyway
I'll go back to making meaningless crap jokes now. Thanks to all for participating.
BTW LMNO do you have a link for the doc you mentioned?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=10409.0
But it doesn't matter anyway, right?
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 04:03:40 PM
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=10409.0
But it doesn't matter anyway, right?
nah i think he just got a littlebit more convinced. didn't he say "you're right" ?
like he said, IMO he made a good move by starting this thread, cause what he wrote in the OP were his thoughts, that's ok. you and cain both showed him partly the error of the way: just not caring is not enough.
next!
It's really, really hard to not care when you have a little one who has to endure the future without you.
which is, in fact, one of the reasons why a lot of the nihilistic apathics say they don't want any kids.
it makes the not-caring so much easier.
but really, caring and actively fighting can be so much more fun :-) just find something you're good at and stand against the flow, if not fun, it makes you feel worth more.
Quote from: triple zero on November 03, 2006, 04:09:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 04:03:40 PM
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=10409.0
But it doesn't matter anyway, right?
nah i think he just got a littlebit more convinced. didn't he say "you're right" ?
like he said, IMO he made a good move by starting this thread, cause what he wrote in the OP were his thoughts, that's ok. you and cain both showed him partly the error of the way: just not caring is not enough.
next!
Sometimes I find myself doing things that make no sense to me. Caring is one of them. So I challenged others who seem to share this affliction to justify themselves in the hope that it may go some way to making me realise why I do. All the arguments back and forth are one's I've heard a million times. LHX cracked it for me and he wasn't even involved in this one.
Trust me on this - I do everything I can to wake up the sleepers and undermine the status quo. If you don't get this about me by now there's prolly little I can do to convince you otherwise. I'm in the business of fucking minds (said so in my very first post here) you told me I had very little chance. I'll hold you to that. No hard feelings?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on November 03, 2006, 04:13:31 PM
It's really, really hard to not care when you have a little one who has to endure the future without you.
I'd much rather my kids had to deal with life without me than it was the other way around. My kids already have to deal with life without me - I walked out on them years ago. They're beautiful kids, better off without me. I hope they find contentment in life a damn sight quicker than I did.
QuoteMy kids already have to deal with life without me - I walked out on them years ago.
Uh oh.
Can of worms opened, ITT.
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 04:37:39 PM
QuoteMy kids already have to deal with life without me - I walked out on them years ago.
Uh oh.
Can of worms opened, ITT.
There is no level of abuse you could pile on me that would even come close to the ammount I've given myself over it. I wouldn't even try to defend my actions. There's nothing I'd ever wish for more than to be given a chance to go back and live my life over as someone good.
*edit* 'cept to wish that those girls have a good life despite me.
Quote from: sillycybinI'm in the business of fucking minds (said so in my very first post here) you told me I had very little chance. I'll hold you to that. No hard feelings?
just a fair warning before you try and "mindfuck" this forum: posting ridiculous stuff and afterwards calling it a "sociology experiment" (or mindfuck, for that matter) is really not a good idea. (seen it happen)
so far i have seen you do nothing of the sort, so don't worry about it, i'm just saying.
Got ya loud and and clear. My intention was not to mindfuck the forum. Just find an answer to a question that was fucking my mind. Sometimes I feel like people are coming close to getting upset with me. This forum is one of a very few situations where I don't want this to happen. For future reference take everything I say with a pinch of salt If my argument is pissing you off - let it go or tell me to shut the fuck up. I believe very few of the opinions I express anyway.
I'll play devils advocate in any debate only because I can see both sides. The fine line I walk is avoiding labouring a point when the other side has an emotional investment in their belief. So far politics seems to be about the only subject where I have to be careful. This is quite normal in my experience. If a generally laid back, happy go lucky person is going to get pissed off with me for saying something odds are it'll be political.
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 03, 2006, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 03, 2006, 04:37:39 PM
QuoteMy kids already have to deal with life without me - I walked out on them years ago.
Uh oh.
Can of worms opened, ITT.
There is no level of abuse you could pile on me that would even come close to the ammount I've given myself over it. I wouldn't even try to defend my actions. There's nothing I'd ever wish for more than to be given a chance to go back and live my life over as someone good.
*edit* 'cept to wish that those girls have a good life despite me.
lol youre not done yet yo
thats part of the problem in this situation: it is the nature of these threats to LINGER and trick us 2 ways:
1 - it tricks some people into thinking nothing ever gonna happen
2 - it tricks the rest of the people into thinking that its imminent
bottom line is, your 'mission' is not gonna be complete until you figure out how to be a good father / good person / good whatever
lol there is no 'abort' button
yesterday doesnt have as much an impact on today as it might appear
also - its not uncommon to disregard things until their significance is felt
there is a trend on this planet that it is okay to destroy things unnecessarily or out of convenience
you dont have to be a 'activist' to take a stance against that
lmao you might want to drop the N-bomb off your little description under the photo too
Quote from: LHX on November 03, 2006, 05:14:33 PM
bottom line is, your 'mission' is not gonna be complete until you figure out how to be a good father / good person / good whatever
That was then and this is now. I feel like I'm a good person. I hate who I was and I worry about who I might become but right now I'm reasonably satisfied with myself (given that there's always room for improvement). The good father thing is a constantly perplexing conundrum - I probably could 'be there for them' now, christ knows I'd love to be but, after all these years, would approaching them potentially stir up a whole bunch of depressing shit for them that they've already laid to rest? You've already helped solve one burning question for me today. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Or it may answer some lingering questions they have about you. Such a situation obviously entails delicacy. But, my opinion is that if it is possible you should try. Perhaps you need to investigate further. Find out if your presence would be welcome or wanted. If so, go for it.
just be a good father
in general
if they ever come back looking for you or if you have any youngsters in the future
i wouldnt phone them up, but i would make sure they know that youre around if needed
not to go drink milkshakes and watch movies, but maybe just to lay down beatings if they ever come across abusive partners
support
Quote from: LHX on November 03, 2006, 05:40:43 PM
just be a good father
in general
if they ever come back looking for you or if you have any youngsters in the future
i wouldnt phone them up, but i would make sure they know that youre around if needed
not to go drink milkshakes and watch movies, but maybe just to lay down beatings if they ever come across abusive partners
support
I've sort of inherited my girlfriends kid (came as a package deal). He's a good kid and I hope he's enjoyed me being around. My own two are getting to the age that they may or may not decide to come looking for me on their own. I decided it was fairest to leave it up to them. The word is out that my door is open. I live in hope. Even if all they want is one cathartic visit to tell me how much they hate me. It'd hurt but I owe them a damn sight more than that.