This is a testimonial of sorts...so it's not really a rant per se. It probably sucks, so don't mind if it does too terribly much.
************************************************************************
One day, you're a perfectly "normal" citizen, a Joe Sixpack or a Jill Someoneorother...and you're sitting there, practically minding your own business. Then you notice that you've been on this rather pervasive yet thought-provoking and confrontational forum for a bit, and you FINALLY get the in-jokes, can make a few yourself, yadda yadda. You almost feel like you belong there, but don't really bother trying too hard for the most part. It's actually good enough to just soak up the atmosphere and read up on what's going down.
THEN, oh my god, you're sitting on a bus with a pocketful of people you were at a conference with, on your way to the airport of all places, and they're bitching about their divorces, mortgages, the cost of gas. Suddenly, out of nowhere, you hear yourself telling them that "the imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos," that there was this cat, in a box, but it was dead, but it wasn't...that equalizing order with disorder doesn't amount to a hill of beans...religion, yeah, that goes nowhere fast...the government, it doesn't exist...
Holy shit. You've gone viral.
It's ok. Take a breath. Obviously, months and months of reading all that stuff has finally sunk in. And what's more: you've started to believe in it, apply it, and make it yours! That's a good thing.
Know why? Because otherwise, you're just wasting your time. And telling those pocketful of people on the bus? That's just natural. Because when you "get it," and they DON'T, you feel the uh-oh welling up until you have to just say, "Well, you see, there's these two guys at a bar, and one of them is on a barstool..."
:lulz: ITT, Jenne is now a Pod-People like the rest of us.
Yes, except this happened like 6 mos ago, so I BEEN one. :x
Quote from: Felix on April 01, 2009, 03:28:43 AM
:lulz: ITT, Jenne is now a Pod-People like the rest of us.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oZwSBXOerBc/SLIt0yaxwFI/AAAAAAAAAG8/jdctXnEBKck/s400/image005.jpg)
TGRR,
Wonders if that should be an emote.
I'm basically convinced.
Jenne, my only suggestion is to take out the Schrodinger bit, because it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Congrat Jenne :) (I think. :wink: ), and good testimonial! Not only do they get the dawning horror that you're not quite as normal as them, you get the dawning horror that you're glimpsing how the herd works.
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is
either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
:mittens: Very nice Jenne.
:mittens:
I have holograms of all of you in my head
and yeah, sometimes you won't shut up.
You fucks make me do stupid shit
and think about stupid shit
and it's not just when I'm at the keyboard
:argh!:
Gobble Gobble, we accept you, one of us!
\
(http://www.olgabaclanova.com/pictures/freaks/104_gooble_gobble_med.jpg)
Message from #discord
<Cain> CRAMULUS
<Cain> I AM A HOLOGRAM IN YOUR HEAD
<Cain> NOW GO THROW A COFFEE CUP AT A CO-WORKER
<Cain> DO THIS AND YOU MAY SLEEP TONIGHT
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
In the Everett-Wheeler theory the cat is most definitely both alive and dead, no?
Only if you count every Universe.
In the Everett-Wheeler theory, I moderate this forum using only my penis
AND COMMAND YOU TO PEE, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT WHERE YOU'RE SITTING
:lulz:
That was great!!!
:mittens:
Quote from: Cramulus on April 01, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
:mittens:
I have holograms of all of you in my head
and yeah, sometimes you won't shut up.
You fucks make me do stupid shit
and think about stupid shit
and it's not just when I'm at the keyboard
:argh!:
I certainly hope we aren't with you in the bedroom.
Though, I could understand if you thought about Hunter.
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 02:33:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
In the Everett-Wheeler theory the cat is most definitely both alive and dead, no?
STANDARD MODEL OR GTFO.
Apropos of nothing, if the LHC
doesn't find the Higgs Boson, things could get
very interesting in the field of theoretical physics.
Assuming it ever works at all.
Quote from: Cain on April 01, 2009, 02:54:07 PM
Assuming it ever works at all.
I would put forward the notion that it's being sabotaged, but we all know that's less likely than it being a pile of junk.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 01, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
I have holograms of all of you in my head
and yeah, sometimes you won't shut up.
You fucks make me do stupid shit
and think about stupid shit
and it's not just when I'm at the keyboard
:argh!:
Oh man, you too?
I spend more time talking to you people (and everyone else I know) in my own head than in external reality.
Quote from: Cainad on April 01, 2009, 06:14:45 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on April 01, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
I have holograms of all of you in my head
and yeah, sometimes you won't shut up.
You fucks make me do stupid shit
and think about stupid shit
and it's not just when I'm at the keyboard
:argh!:
Oh man, you too?
I spend more time talking to you people (and everyone else I know) in my own head than in external reality.
Tell my hologram self to make "The Noise" for you.
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
Hee, I left that part intentionally WRONG. Here's why: Whenever I try to explain it, I just give up and end up saying, "Just go google
Schrodinger's cat for chrissakes!"
And the OP has a prelude saying: this mostly sucks. There's the part wherein it sucks--it doesn't have the ring of perfection--it sounds exactly like I feel I do in my head while I'm trying to explain aneristic strains on the human psyche. :lol:
Thanks, Guys, for your support on this.
No u?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3161066095_972128f39a.jpg?v=0)
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
Incorrect. The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.
That is all.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 01, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
:mittens:
I have holograms of all of you in my head
and yeah, sometimes you won't shut up.
You fucks make me do stupid shit
and think about stupid shit
and it's not just when I'm at the keyboard
:argh!:
It's just one more service we provide.
Now DANCE for me!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 01, 2009, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
Incorrect. The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.
That is all.
See, even when I say it RIGHT it's unintentional! And each time I read it, I understand it better in my head, on a visceral level, than I do for the purpose of explaining it.
This is what the ancients called ARCANE KNOWLEDGE.
Jenne,
Not truly in the Inner Circle(tm), but can pretend
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 01, 2009, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
Incorrect. The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.
That is all.
I'm not sure how this differs from what I said. Our math can't predict which it is, so we have to look. This doesn't put the cat in some "middle state" of
dealivead that suddenly shifts to "alive" or "dead" through the act of our observing.
Quote from: From 'Beneath Reality'Quantum theory appears to be saying that until the box is opened the cat is in a smeared-out state, a superposition of possibilities, in this case half dead and half alive. Your act of opening the box appears to resolve the situation. Does your act decide the cat's fate? Must you bear responsibility?
No. The wave function does not pretend to describe the cat. The information it contains is about measurement probabilities, not entirely about what causes them. The cat's fate is sealed as soon as a radioactive emission effects an irreversible consequence in the world – certainly by the time the first detector clicks. We simply do not know what has happened until we open the box. If we want to reassure ourselves that our action did not kill the cat, then we can perform an autopsy to determine the instant of demise.
Well, if you're going to listen to scientists...
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/fnord_photo/quantumcat.jpg?t=1238699580)
The cat depends entirely on one's beliefs.
One may consider the cat "undetermined" until we look, because we cannot predict its state. If one takes the Copenhagen view, then we cannot have a model (even the holographic one we pretend is reality) where the cat IS alive or dead, until we look.
One may consider that the cat is alive or dead without looking, based on the RBT (Revised Barstool Theory).
One may consider the cat alive in some multiverse, dead is some multiverse and an escapee in the multiverse where the cat was much smarter than the humans trying to stick him in such a dangerous box. Other multiverses include the cat being a lynx, the cat being a dog, the researcher being a Discordian, the researcher being a cat and the thing in the box being a Deep One.
Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.
Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.
Most but not all of Rat's post was utter bullshit, except for this bit.
Or, I should say
MosbunalloRatpowasutbushit, except for this bit.
Quote from: LMNO on April 02, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.
Most but not all of Rat's post was utter bullshit, except for this bit.
Or, I should say MosbunalloRatpowasutbushit, except for this bit.
Sigh, get it right
mosbunalloratspostsAREbushit :wink:
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.
ACHOO!
Don't I know it. *wipes snotball on sleeve*
honest, the cat was already dead when I got there.
Quote from: LMNO on April 02, 2009, 01:21:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 01, 2009, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 01, 2009, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 01, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
Technically, what Jenne wrote doesn't refute anything in the Schrodinger's Cat hypotheses. It just doesn't really explain it.
Pedantically, the cat isn't both alive and dead. It is either alive or dead, we just can't predict which with our maths.
Incorrect. The solution set includes both alive and dead, prior to looking, which is why you can't determine the situation ahead of time using math.
That is all.
I'm not sure how this differs from what I said. Our math can't predict which it is, so we have to look. This doesn't put the cat in some "middle state" of dealivead that suddenly shifts to "alive" or "dead" through the act of our observing.
Quote from: From 'Beneath Reality'Quantum theory appears to be saying that until the box is opened the cat is in a smeared-out state, a superposition of possibilities, in this case half dead and half alive. Your act of opening the box appears to resolve the situation. Does your act decide the cat's fate? Must you bear responsibility?
No. The wave function does not pretend to describe the cat. The information it contains is about measurement probabilities, not entirely about what causes them. The cat's fate is sealed as soon as a radioactive emission effects an irreversible consequence in the world – certainly by the time the first detector clicks. We simply do not know what has happened until we open the box. If we want to reassure ourselves that our action did not kill the cat, then we can perform an autopsy to determine the instant of demise.
Balls. If the math says the universe doesn't have to decide yet, it doesn't. You can only autopsy the cat if the state the situation collapses into says it's dead. Until then, it's both.
TGRR,
Standard Interpretation, my ass.
Quote from: Ratatosk on April 02, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
The cat depends entirely on one's beliefs.
One may consider the cat "undetermined" until we look, because we cannot predict its state. If one takes the Copenhagen view, then we cannot have a model (even the holographic one we pretend is reality) where the cat IS alive or dead, until we look.
One may consider that the cat is alive or dead without looking, based on the RBT (Revised Barstool Theory).
One may consider the cat alive in some multiverse, dead is some multiverse and an escapee in the multiverse where the cat was much smarter than the humans trying to stick him in such a dangerous box. Other multiverses include the cat being a lynx, the cat being a dog, the researcher being a Discordian, the researcher being a cat and the thing in the box being a Deep One.
Finally, the best way to determine the appropriate model to utilize in relation to the Cat That May Not Be... is to figure out which solution will most likely fuck with the people you're talking to. Once this has been determined, proceed with as much fervor and conviction as a Street Preacher.
Also, Jenne... there is no cure, you are infected and contagious forever.
Utter rot.
Quote from: Dr Hoopla on April 02, 2009, 08:10:12 PM
Well, if you're going to listen to scientists...
WHICH scientists? Smolin and Ashtekar are also big fans of the "cat is BOTH" view.
Quote from: Jenne on April 01, 2009, 03:24:47 AM
This is a testimonial of sorts...so it's not really a rant per se. It probably sucks, so don't mind if it does too terribly much.
************************************************************************
One day, you're a perfectly "normal" citizen, a Joe Sixpack or a Jill Someoneorother...and you're sitting there, practically minding your own business. Then you notice that you've been on this rather pervasive yet thought-provoking and confrontational forum for a bit, and you FINALLY get the in-jokes, can make a few yourself, yadda yadda. You almost feel like you belong there, but don't really bother trying too hard for the most part. It's actually good enough to just soak up the atmosphere and read up on what's going down.
THEN, oh my god, you're sitting on a bus with a pocketful of people you were at a conference with, on your way to the airport of all places, and they're bitching about their divorces, mortgages, the cost of gas. Suddenly, out of nowhere, you hear yourself telling them that "the imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos," that there was this cat, in a box, but it was dead, but it wasn't...that equalizing order with disorder doesn't amount to a hill of beans...religion, yeah, that goes nowhere fast...the government, it doesn't exist...
Holy shit. You've gone viral.
It's ok. Take a breath. Obviously, months and months of reading all that stuff has finally sunk in. And what's more: you've started to believe in it, apply it, and make it yours! That's a good thing.
Know why? Because otherwise, you're just wasting your time. And telling those pocketful of people on the bus? That's just natural. Because when you "get it," and they DON'T, you feel the uh-oh welling up until you have to just say, "Well, you see, there's these two guys at a bar, and one of them is on a barstool..."
I like this as a testimonial or rant or what-have-you? It rings true & has resonance. I can relate. I like the bar stool thought experiment better than the cat one anyway so that part didn't distract me even the tiniest scintilla. Thanks & respect. :)
Quote from: Jenne on April 01, 2009, 03:24:47 AM
This is a testimonial of sorts...so it's not really a rant per se. It probably sucks, so don't mind if it does too terribly much.
************************************************************************
One day, you're a perfectly "normal" citizen, a Joe Sixpack or a Jill Someoneorother...and you're sitting there, practically minding your own business. Then you notice that you've been on this rather pervasive yet thought-provoking and confrontational forum for a bit, and you FINALLY get the in-jokes, can make a few yourself, yadda yadda. You almost feel like you belong there, but don't really bother trying too hard for the most part. It's actually good enough to just soak up the atmosphere and read up on what's going down.
THEN, oh my god, you're sitting on a bus with a pocketful of people you were at a conference with, on your way to the airport of all places, and they're bitching about their divorces, mortgages, the cost of gas. Suddenly, out of nowhere, you hear yourself telling them that "the imposition of order equals the escalation of chaos," that there was this cat, in a box, but it was dead, but it wasn't...that equalizing order with disorder doesn't amount to a hill of beans...religion, yeah, that goes nowhere fast...the government, it doesn't exist...
Holy shit. You've gone viral.
It's ok. Take a breath. Obviously, months and months of reading all that stuff has finally sunk in. And what's more: you've started to believe in it, apply it, and make it yours! That's a good thing.
Know why? Because otherwise, you're just wasting your time. And telling those pocketful of people on the bus? That's just natural. Because when you "get it," and they DON'T, you feel the uh-oh welling up until you have to just say, "Well, you see, there's these two guys at a bar, and one of them is on a barstool..."
I've been viral for a while now. It creeps up on you.
This thread has ruined schrodingers cat for me, and reality seems managable and sane once more.
[TGRR]
Just another service we provide.
[/TGRR]