Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Think for Yourself, Schmuck! => Topic started by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 12:53:15 PM

Title: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 12:53:15 PM
Hey, I've been reading around these forums for a few days (and seemingly managed to piss a few peeps off in that time, but thats ok),

I noticed in some (rather old threads :/)  That people felt the original BIP was too dark, and also (maybe the same thread..) that it might be cool to redo (it is Kopylefted right?) the BIP in a slightly more upbeat way (if its possible) and also in a more illustration based way.

What I had in mind was something where the main theme of each page was taken, illustrated then some of the key parts of the original writing (so it still makes sense) incorporated into the artwork.

Tis something that I'd quite like to do regardless of what others think, but you know, its nice to have some encouragement, plus I could really do with a working link to a BIP download (.pdf or .doc are both fine)

x

edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on April 14, 2009, 01:08:02 PM
yeah, go for it. The BIP is Kopyleft - anyone may remix and remaster it. I think everybody should rewrite a text or two during their time as a Discordian. Here's a link to a PDF and .doc

http://ifile.it/5fic16n
http://ifile.it/1z85k0t
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2009, 02:24:05 PM
Have you come across the GSP yet?

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=11605.0
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
Seems like a similar idea, though my "revamp" was going to focus largely on an aesthetic principal (for people like me, who are sucked in by a meaning in a pretty picture ;)).  I may read through some more of that, I was also going to cut down on some of the preachiness in the BIP(apologies in advance to those who wrote it and may find that comment offensive), as my main issue with that is that it seems to be quite against the TFY,S! attitude.

I think it was some reference to that thread that i saw, as I don't remember reading all that :P

x

edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on April 14, 2009, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: TSosBR! on April 14, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
my main issue with that is that it seems to be quite against the TFY,S! attitude.

could you expand on this a bit? I'm not sure that I follow. I always felt TFY,S was a dominant theme.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 03:28:29 PM
it is a dominant theme, but its a dominant theme that is FORCED on the reader, which I felt to be sorta hypocritical, that was just how I felt on reading it.  Thats not really clear... I'll try again:

I just mean at times the message seems to very forward/one-sided, like a bad piece of propoganda, and I think to put it like this:  Here is your problem, here is my solution, follow my way...  isn't that basically doing the very thing you were trying (in my interpretation) to critique with the Black Sheep are still Sheep meme?

Thats only a viewpoint though (that I hope to correct, in my view, with the revamp...)

Just thoughts as always,

x

edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Requia ☣ on April 14, 2009, 04:03:02 PM
I would point out that Roger has specifically stated he doesn't want his works changed.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 04:06:25 PM
Not changed at all?  i didn't really intend to re-write anything but I had intended to cut some things down a bit... though I'm sure I can find a way to either leave them totally unchanged or fill the gap with something else :/  though I'd rather not :(
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2009, 04:13:09 PM
You'll find TGRR is very posessive about his work.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 14, 2009, 05:04:45 PM
18...
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 14, 2009, 05:04:45 PM
18...

so whats this about 50 posts?
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on April 14, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
the local tradition (read: not a rule) is that people get 50 posts to get up to speed and get a sense for the energy of this place. During those 50 posts, some people will refrain from flaming you. It's like a safety bubble for newbies. After 50 posts, the gloves come off, I suppose.

personally, I don't know what people are getting worked up about ITT.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 05:31:27 PM
I'm going to treasure these last 17 (now 16) posts...
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2009, 05:33:14 PM
The 50 Post Suggestion was created by the incandescent Hoshiko, who noticed that our idea of Fun was sometimes a bit offputting to people unfamiliar with this forum.

So, she suggested that we give new members 50 posts to get the feel for how we post here.  If, after 50 posts, they want to stick around, they should have enough information about how we treat each other here.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 14, 2009, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: Crampulus on April 14, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
personally, I don't know what people are getting worked up about ITT.


You forget; P3nt is a dick.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 07:06:40 PM
I've made a start on the first 2/3 pages (thought I'm really not sure what to do about the second page, it doesn't lend itself well to illustration:()

And I've actually ended up trimming down on written content very significantly, which has been nice, as it spurred some of my own thoughts into action, e.g.

The last paragraph on my first page goes something like

You were Born to Be here.
It's your Life
The Cold Trap of your own Existence
You painted yourself into a Corner

(insert fairly predictable doodle :))

All you have to realise is:

No one Cares if you have Paint on your Shoes.

like it?

It's all hand written thus far (maybe why I cut down on text so much, I'm aware my hand writing can get pretty illedgible)

Another metaphor type thing came up for me on the 3rd page (Who Wrote This?), works best with the doodle which is of a magician type entertaining people and a lone figure at one side next to the text:  His Illusion is Optional, Yours is Necessary.

Comments?  Flames?  Praise?

x

edd

p.s.  I'll scan some in when I have some time so you can all see the pretty pictures :)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 14, 2009, 08:31:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 14, 2009, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: Crampulus on April 14, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
personally, I don't know what people are getting worked up about ITT.


You forget; P3nt is a dick.

Specifically, a dick who enjoys pouncing as soon as the 50 post-mark is reached. Example:

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 04, 2007, 08:45:06 PM
Quote from: Cainad on October 04, 2007, 08:36:21 PM
Quote from: That One Guy on October 04, 2007, 08:32:30 PM
That crap was added in during I believe the Eisenhower administration - right around the McCarthy "Red Menace" years - to "combat" the threat of those godless commies. Since we were obviously their opposite, that apparently made us godfearing capitalists. Since no one on the Hill at the time had any chance of standing up to the Communism witch hunt (and since voting against something like that is easy re-election fodder for the opponent) it went through with almost without opposition.

Thanks 1950s government!  :argh!:

I've always hated that 'godfearing' shit. What kind of assholes WANT to be frightened of their omnipotent, supposedly loving deity? Sounds like BDSM spirituality to me.

Fuck off you twat!

yay 50posts  :banana:
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 08:36:59 PM
thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 14, 2009, 10:42:16 PM
sorry for double post (not that sorry tho...)

here is page 1http://rapidshare.de/files/46728855/BIPpg1.JPG.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/46728855/BIPpg1.JPG.html)
and 3 http://rapidshare.de/files/46728856/BIPpg3.jpg.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/46728856/BIPpg3.jpg.html)

(by your original), still deciding how to interpret your page 2.

plus a revamped black sheep posterhttp://rapidshare.de/files/46728854/blacksheepfinal.jpg.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/46728854/blacksheepfinal.jpg.html)

Enjoy, feedback much appreciated

Edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: AFK on April 15, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
Ugh, we get one of these threads every year it seems like.  How bout letting sleeping dogs lie and try something different eh?  Also, I would very much appreciate my piece also not be truncated or fixed in any manner.  That would be "A Conclusion Is Simply Where You Stopped Thinking". 

Also, I've only looked at your first page so far, if your goal is to make the BIP, less "dark", you are going in the wrong direction. 
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 15, 2009, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: Cainad on April 14, 2009, 08:31:48 PM

Specifically, a dick who enjoys pouncing as soon as the 50 post-mark is reached. Example:


Bullshit! 9 times out of 10 I jump in well before 50. This one I'm not absolutely sure about so I'm biding my time. It might take 50 it might take 150 but one thing is for sure - If and when the time comes I will be a dick about it :evil:
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 15, 2009, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: RWHN on April 15, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
Ugh, we get one of these threads every year it seems like.  How bout letting sleeping dogs lie and try something different eh?  Also, I would very much appreciate my piece also not be truncated or fixed in any manner.  That would be "A Conclusion Is Simply Where You Stopped Thinking". 

Also, I've only looked at your first page so far, if your goal is to make the BIP, less "dark", you are going in the wrong direction. 

yeh maybe not less dark... turns out im rubbish at drawing happy stuff. 'specially based on the material  :lulz:

as for letting sleeping dogs lie, I'm not entirely sure what is meant by that, I understand that the BIP was completed several years ago... wel basically what I'm trying to say is that this is someting that I enjoy doing i.e.  looking at a piece of writing, and then drawing from the inspiration it gives me.

Maybe I misread the BIP, but isn't that sort of what you wanted?  for people to read it and be inspired?

anyways, I'm gonna go ahead anyway cause I enjoy it, but thanks for the heads up on reuse of your work

Edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: AFK on April 15, 2009, 02:08:10 PM
Well, don't listen to me as I'm pretty much in the minority regarding BIP revamps anyway.  I guess I'm somewhat of a purist sometimes when it comes to writing and art.  I think an original expression taps into something that, IMO, a revamp can't.  It's like, okay, we've done that, we've said that, we've expressed that.  Let's continue to celebrate it, distribute it, etc., but it is what it is.  It's imperfect but it's the imperfections that give it character. 

My favorite version of the BIP is still the first version that LMNO hammered out during his lunch hour.  This is no slight to Cram or anyone else who has retouched it, because Cram did a marvelous job on his version.  I just liked the simple, streamlined version where all you had were the words on the pages.  And maybe that's why so many have found it so heavy, there were no visuals to break it up, nothing else to focus on but what was being said. 

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. 
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
 :oops:

Thanks, man.

TSo,  You can do what you like to my essays (Welcome to Prison, The Nature of Reality), but unless you completely hack them apart and rebuild them, credit would be nice.

I would, however, encourage you to come up with your own metaphor.  Talk to Ratatosk about his Golden Submarine (or Roller Coaster, or whatever the hell he came up with).  That might set you off in a new direction.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 15, 2009, 02:15:58 PM
Well I appreciate that opinion (and agree on many points), and myself, as i start to bump into the bits of work that don't want to be changed, have come to the realisation that I think I'll be using BIP more as a springboard fro something new(ish), as clearly there are a lot of bits that people don't want changing, but that I want to do in a different way.

Edd

EDIT:
Quote from: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
:oops:

Thanks, man.

TSo,  You can do what you like to my essays (Welcome to Prison, The Nature of Reality), but unless you completely hack them apart and rebuild them, credit would be nice.

I would, however, encourage you to come up with your own metaphor.  Talk to Ratatosk about his Golden Submarine (or Roller Coaster, or whatever the hell he came up with).  That might set you off in a new direction.


I intend to have a lot of metaphors rather than jsut one actually...  I'll have to write about that in more depth methinks..
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on April 15, 2009, 03:13:18 PM
downloading now... gotta say, rapidshare is a really slow way to get these files. I downloaded the first two, and on the third one it said, "You have reached the maximum download limit for free users."

You should host them on photobucket or imageshack or something.

It looks like you've put some time into this, so I'm sure you'd appreciate honest feedback... it's the only way the creative engine moves forward...

from what I've seen so far
they're okay.

I applaud your effort to rewrite what you don't like. I really do think that's a good habit, especially with (mostly) Kopyleft text like this. We occasionally get people in here that like the BIP thing but don't like some element of its presentation - that's fine, I've always thought of it as a work in progress, even though I wasn't around for it's initial days. As a community, we're all about creative output so I think it's healthy to leave no sacred chao untipped.

That being said, this version does look darker than the original. I'm not sure that it gained anything by stripping out text, as some of those pieces were kind of short to begin with. With less text to anchor you, I don't get as clear of a message from the pages. But personally, I don't think the "miscommunication" we were experiencing was from too much text. The handwritten text gives it a sort of "notebook" texture, which is less professional feeling.

On page 1, the dark bars overlap the text and make it hard to read.
On page 3, I think the text block on the right is a good selection. The sun and banner image is kind of rough though - looks more like a notebook doodle than an illustration.


Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 15, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: TSosBR! on April 15, 2009, 02:15:58 PM
Well I appreciate that opinion (and agree on many points), and myself, as i start to bump into the bits of work that don't want to be changed, have come to the realisation that I think I'll be using BIP more as a springboard fro something new(ish), as clearly there are a lot of bits that people don't want changing, but that I want to do in a different way.

Edd

EDIT:
Quote from: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 02:13:14 PM
:oops:

Thanks, man.

TSo,  You can do what you like to my essays (Welcome to Prison, The Nature of Reality), but unless you completely hack them apart and rebuild them, credit would be nice.

I would, however, encourage you to come up with your own metaphor.  Talk to Ratatosk about his Golden Submarine (or Roller Coaster, or whatever the hell he came up with).  That might set you off in a new direction.


I intend to have a lot of metaphors rather than jsut one actually...  I'll have to write about that in more depth methinks..

I found the BiP a bit less optimistic than I liked, so I wrote my own little metaphor:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=19655.0 (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=19655.0)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 15, 2009, 03:24:08 PM
I can't even access Rapidshare from my school. :x
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on April 15, 2009, 03:28:15 PM
ah I'll rehost on the womp cabal bucket---

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/BIPpg1.jpg)


(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/BIPpg3.jpg)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 15, 2009, 03:35:19 PM
Quote from: InCrandible! on April 15, 2009, 03:13:18 PM
downloading now... gotta say, rapidshare is a really slow way to get these files. I downloaded the first two, and on the third one it said, "You have reached the maximum download limit for free users."

You should host them on photobucket or imageshack or something.

It looks like you've put some time into this, so I'm sure you'd appreciate honest feedback... it's the only way the creative engine moves forward...

from what I've seen so far
they're okay.

I applaud your effort to rewrite what you don't like. I really do think that's a good habit, especially with (mostly) Kopyleft text like this. We occasionally get people in here that like the BIP thing but don't like some element of its presentation - that's fine, I've always thought of it as a work in progress, even though I wasn't around for it's initial days. As a community, we're all about creative output so I think it's healthy to leave no sacred chao untipped.

That being said, this version does look darker than the original. I'm not sure that it gained anything by stripping out text, as some of those pieces were kind of short to begin with. With less text to anchor you, I don't get as clear of a message from the pages. But personally, I don't think the "miscommunication" we were experiencing was from too much text. The handwritten text gives it a sort of "notebook" texture, which is less professional feeling.

On page 1, the dark bars overlap the text and make it hard to read.
On page 3, I think the text block on the right is a good selection. The sun and banner image is kind of rough though - looks more like a notebook doodle than an illustration.

Much appreciated, I think that when I said less dark, what I actually meant was less.. rigid?  Or your point about it looking less professional, because I sorta hate professionalism in a way, I hate for things to look neat and organised, as I think that sort of environment limits creativity...

So I'm almost glad that you feel its less professional...

Other points:

Tha dark bars overlapping text was purposeful, because for me, the hadwritten bits are the most important from that text, and I wanted to add some texture in that area, to compliment the figure.

Though I completely agree about the world banner thing...  Might have to redo that.

To be honest (as far as miscommunication etc. goes), I'm still not entirely sure what my version will improve on etc. it might not imporve at all in the end, but its been fun so far, plus it makes me think WAY more about the messages in the BIP.

I think maybe I'm trying to make it more bohemian?  and I'm gonna have to cut down on the "hey kids" 'cause I'm english and it doesnt sit right with me :P

Edd

p.s.  I hosted on rapidshare cause I didnt think photobucket would let me upload images that size... 'pparently I was wrong.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 03:40:12 PM
I might be looking at this the wrong way, but it seems to me that while the original pamphlet might have seemed propgagandistic, your version looks like something scribbled in math class after watching The Wall the previous night.

If that was your intention, well, congrats.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 15, 2009, 03:41:43 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 03:40:12 PM
I might be looking at this the wrong way, but it seems to me that while the original pamphlet might have seemed propgagandistic, your version looks like something scribbled in math class after watching The Wall the previous night.

If that was your intention, well, congrats.

previous post:  not really sure of intention as yet, will dfinitely be refined tho..

also

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/blacksheepfinal.jpg)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 15, 2009, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: TSosBR! on April 15, 2009, 03:41:43 PM
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/blacksheepfinal.jpg)

This is pretty cool.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Reginald Ret on April 15, 2009, 09:26:25 PM
try to find a place for this piece of art by payne. Im not entirely sure if he wants it in here so ask him before using it.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=12110.0


Its also in intermittens 1.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 15, 2009, 09:42:36 PM
That is very cool piece, strong imagery, definitely something I can work with :)  Though, if he'd be permitting, I may take that bit out about forums...  I wasn't such a fan of that, or at least I don't feel it fit so well with the rest of it.

Also

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPfront.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPfront.jpg)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPpg2.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPpg2.jpg)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPpg4.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPpg4.jpg)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPpg5.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPpg5.jpg)

Thats front page, page 3 (the other page 3 is now page 2), page 4 and 5

Edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 16, 2009, 01:47:23 AM
I like the idea of illustrating it, but the whole rewriting-other-people's-work thing strikes me as weird.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: East Coast Hustle on April 16, 2009, 02:50:31 AM
You are welcome to use my piece provided credit is given, but not to alter the content in any way.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: fomenter on April 16, 2009, 03:06:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel on April 16, 2009, 01:47:23 AM
I like the idea of illustrating it, but the whole rewriting-other-people's-work thing strikes me as weird.
iawt

there is a lot of gsp out there that is unwritten unfinished and unillustrated. i like the energy you have to put into projects
if you want to look at unfinished gsp stuff http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=19810.0 is one, there are more around that others can point you at...
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2009, 03:38:42 AM
None of my shit gets rewritten.

It can be used as is, with credit, or not at all.

TGRR,
Not a fan of Copyleft.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Requia ☣ on April 16, 2009, 05:49:27 AM
That is Copyleft, or a form of it.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 16, 2009, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2009, 03:38:42 AM
None of my shit gets rewritten.

It can be used as is, with credit, or not at all.

TGRR,
Not a fan of Copyleft.


I was warned ;)

I've actually done no "rewriting" as such thus far, only a few pieces that I edited down to what I considered key points.

@East Coast Hustle:  which pieces are yours?  I'll be sure to keep them intact if they are used.

Mostly I'm just sorta, expanding on the ideas in my own random-string-of-thoughts type way.

Any feedback on the content thus far?

Edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: AFK on April 16, 2009, 11:07:50 AM
editing down, in my mind, IS a form of rewriting.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Triple Zero on April 16, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
1. I like it! in fact, I think I *love* it. I wouldnt call it a replacement or anything of the BIP, but "just another way of presenting it", perhaps (since it has less text and more pics) sort of like a bite-sized intro to the BIP for people with short attention spans.

2. The illustrations and original markup/layout definitely make it more interesting and IMO more enticing to take a further look at. However, I would try to stay away a bit from the dark/moody/gloomy/"emo" feeling and style. This is something the BIP is already suffering criticisms from, while it's not (specifically) intended that way. I think the illustrations are way cool like this, so perhaps you can "brighten them up", by adding some bright pastel colours or something. I'm thinking you could waterpaint some bright boxes on paper, scan that, and overlay them (multiply layer in Photoshop/GIMP), either on illustrations or the blocks of text themselves. I've seen it done with some experimental cartoons, and it looks really cool.

3. be careful about remixing or editing some people's work. while I personally don't think it's weird, but rather a very positive and creative embrace of our postmodern times, not getting the author's permission before publishing (spreading) is a bad idea and will sow bad seeds.
In general (not just for PD.com), I think it would be best to email (or PM) the author and ask them "I'd like to use your piece, would you mind if I include just these and these paragraphs instead of the entire text?", and then from there work with them rather than carelessly grabbing it.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 16, 2009, 12:47:39 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 16, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
1. I like it! in fact, I think I *love* it. I wouldnt call it a replacement or anything of the BIP, but "just another way of presenting it", perhaps (since it has less text and more pics) sort of like a bite-sized intro to the BIP for people with short attention spans.

Yay!

Quote2. The illustrations and original markup/layout definitely make it more interesting and IMO more enticing to take a further look at. However, I would try to stay away a bit from the dark/moody/gloomy/"emo" feeling and style. This is something the BIP is already suffering criticisms from, while it's not (specifically) intended that way. I think the illustrations are way cool like this, so perhaps you can "brighten them up", by adding some bright pastel colours or something. I'm thinking you could waterpaint some bright boxes on paper, scan that, and overlay them (multiply layer in Photoshop/GIMP), either on illustrations or the blocks of text themselves. I've seen it done with some experimental cartoons, and it looks really cool.

I'd like to keep it largely monotone, that may make it seem a bit emo, but I'm going to see if I can find my book on Taoist art and see if I can work in some happier blackandwhite things e.g.

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_lits1.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=lits1.jpg)  not b&w but... i can do happy things (that was for a local band...)

Quote3. be careful about remixing or editing some people's work. while I personally don't think it's weird, but rather a very positive and creative embrace of our postmodern times, not getting the author's permission before publishing (spreading) is a bad idea and will sow bad seeds.
In general (not just for PD.com), I think it would be best to email (or PM) the author and ask them "I'd like to use your piece, would you mind if I include just these and these paragraphs instead of the entire text?", and then from there work with them rather than carelessly grabbing it.

Definitely, from now on I'm gonna either leave work either as is (in its entirety) with my contribution being the artwork, or write something original.

Thanks for the feedback  :)

Edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Honey on April 16, 2009, 01:27:54 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 16, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
1. I like it! in fact, I think I *love* it. I wouldnt call it a replacement or anything of the BIP, but "just another way of presenting it", perhaps (since it has less text and more pics) sort of like a bite-sized intro to the BIP for people with short attention spans.

2. The illustrations and original markup/layout definitely make it more interesting and IMO more enticing to take a further look at. However, I would try to stay away a bit from the dark/moody/gloomy/"emo" feeling and style. This is something the BIP is already suffering criticisms from, while it's not (specifically) intended that way. I think the illustrations are way cool like this, so perhaps you can "brighten them up", by adding some bright pastel colours or something. I'm thinking you could waterpaint some bright boxes on paper, scan that, and overlay them (multiply layer in Photoshop/GIMP), either on illustrations or the blocks of text themselves. I've seen it done with some experimental cartoons, and it looks really cool.

3. be careful about remixing or editing some people's work. while I personally don't think it's weird, but rather a very positive and creative embrace of our postmodern times, not getting the author's permission before publishing (spreading) is a bad idea and will sow bad seeds.
In general (not just for PD.com), I think it would be best to email (or PM) the author and ask them "I'd like to use your piece, would you mind if I include just these and these paragraphs instead of the entire text?", and then from there work with them rather than carelessly grabbing it.

If English was my first language I woulda said something like this ^^^ ( :oops:  Dammit English IS my first language & I uh well ... still a bit flustered, rattled even & uh ... dammit!)

TSosBR!:  I like the artwork & the thoughtprocess!  Respect!

Triple Zero:  Extremely well said!

Please note:  I still stand in wonder at original BIP (especially writing part)  Kudos!   :)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Triple Zero on April 16, 2009, 09:09:41 PM
it's because i used the word "enticing", right ;-)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 16, 2009, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on April 16, 2009, 09:09:41 PM
it's because i used the word "enticing", right ;-)


In Some Sense...
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Honey on April 17, 2009, 02:00:38 AM
It was, without a doubt that too.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 30, 2009, 07:53:12 PM
heres a naive little poem i wrote today, i haven't forgotten about this, for those who enjoyed it (and those who dont ;)), just things will probs be a little slow atm, I'll try and scan in some of the new pages when I get the chance..

anyways:

QuoteThis is what is real,
A dark and storming cloud,
of things we don't understand,
of things that make us frown.

So why do we see pretty stars,
and not the ugly mess instead,
why don't we just bend the walls,
put pretty circles in our heads.

I'm sick of these obtuse stars,
I wish their slow decay,
I hate the broken sky,
I miss the other shapes.


I miss the other shapes...

Just a note, it makes more sense with the illustration (ill scan soon, i do a promise!), and I don't usually do rhyming patterns, but I felt it kinda fit with the idea...  maybe that old tom bloke's style is rubbing off on me :S

x
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 30, 2009, 07:54:56 PM
Should I be concerned that none of the lines rhyme with each other?
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 30, 2009, 07:57:56 PM
I once wrote a BIP thingy in unrhymed verse. I wasn't given the PD.com Poet Lowrate award for it, so it can't have been too horrible.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: AFK on April 30, 2009, 07:59:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 30, 2009, 07:54:56 PM
Should I be concerned that none of the lines rhyme with each other?

Yes, this can only lead to complete and utter bedlam, oh wait....
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on April 30, 2009, 08:04:37 PM
I have no problem with free verse, I guess it was the use of the phrase "rhyming patterns" that threw me.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 30, 2009, 08:17:59 PM
Ah, didn't see that. Yes, that is a bit confusing.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on April 30, 2009, 08:18:45 PM
Quote from: LMNO on April 30, 2009, 08:04:37 PM
I have no problem with free verse, I guess it was the use of the phrase "rhyming patterns" that threw me.

its kinda a loose rhyming pattern, 2nd and 4th in each verse rhyme a bit...

I think maybe just the way i was thinking them made me think it rhymed...  but now i've re-read it.. yeh.. nothing rhymes...  except instead and head... a bit...
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 01, 2009, 02:01:36 AM
Oblique rhyme, guys. Don't panic, it still counts.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 01, 2009, 02:05:50 AM
Here is a little poem I wrote in a minute when I'm finished with this line:

Discordian poetry;
that's right, bitches,
this shit doesn't rhyme.
What did you expect?
Plus I'm trolling your mom.                   
Fuck you.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Telarus on May 01, 2009, 02:49:37 AM
:mittens:
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: LMNO on May 01, 2009, 03:35:56 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 02:05:50 AM
Here is a little poem I wrote in a minute when I'm finished with this line:

Discordian poetry;
that's right, bitches,
this shit doesn't rhyme.
What did you expect?
Plus I'm trolling your mom.                   
Fuck you.

Newsfeed.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 01, 2009, 04:18:56 AM
:thanks:
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on May 01, 2009, 05:04:52 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 02:05:50 AM
Discordian poetry;
that's right, bitches,
this shit doesn't rhyme.
What did you expect?
Plus I'm trolling your mom.                   
Fuck you.

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/forum/horrormirth4-1.gif)



(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/forum/oldwoman_laughing_or_crying.jpg)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2009, 05:09:36 AM
Quote from: TSosBR! on April 16, 2009, 11:02:10 AM
I've actually done no "rewriting" as such thus far, only a few pieces that I edited down to what I considered key points.

Do that with someone else's shit.  I'll fucking decide what my key points are, thank you very fucking much.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 01, 2009, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2009, 02:05:50 AM
Here is a little poem I wrote in a minute when I'm finished with this line:

Discordian poetry;
that's right, bitches,
this shit doesn't rhyme.
What did you expect?
Plus I'm trolling your mom.                   
Fuck you.

That part made me :spittake:
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on May 01, 2009, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 01, 2009, 05:09:36 AM
Quote from: TSosBR! on April 16, 2009, 11:02:10 AM
I've actually done no "rewriting" as such thus far, only a few pieces that I edited down to what I considered key points.

Do that with someone else's shit.  I'll fucking decide what my key points are, thank you very fucking much.

I know roger,  haven't touched any of your work, if i've kept it its kept in its entirety.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on May 07, 2009, 09:33:23 PM
There's three new pages, I'm kinda doin them outta order now, 'cause I had the ideas for those pages a few weeks ago, drew them, then didn't get round to showing them till now.

The last two are supposed to be the last two pages, the other one is probably middle-ish end in the grand scheme of things:

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPshapes.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPshapes.jpg)     (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIP2ndlast.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIP2ndlast.jpg)     (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPback.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPback.jpg)


@ Cainad if he reads this, some of this might be appropriate to your newest intermittens issue, so if you want to steal some of it feel free :wink:

x
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on May 07, 2009, 09:38:09 PM
This is really cool. I dig your artwork, and I think some of it will fit well into my upcoming Intermittens.
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on May 07, 2009, 10:27:40 PM
:mittens:

those are beautiful
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on July 03, 2009, 07:53:27 PM
 :oops:  thanks cram!

also, I have not forgotten!  and I think I might have to redo the first couple of pages because...  I know what I'm doing!

new title is "wanderings of a faceless man"

and I'm basically using the BIP as a springboard.  So the beginning is my condensed (but not altered where authors do not wish the work to be altered) and illustrated BIP bit.... then its just loads of my shit that was partially inspired by the PD, PD.com, and the BIP, or otherwise brought into focus/enhanced by my experience of this place.

So its like:  this is some stuff I read, then:  this is where it took me.

Yay!  I has concept!

though really its one of those really ace concepts that lets me do whatever the hell i want :)

x

edd

EDIT:  yeh, shameless bump ;)  but there should be 2-3 new pages soon.  and some people seemed vaguely interested, so i thought i'd better update before the thread was lost forever*

*does that actually happen?
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on July 06, 2009, 05:21:02 PM
proper update! (not shameless bump update)

first is my parable thing from a while back set to the backdrop of a pretty and relevant picture!

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPdest.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPdest.jpg)

second is the finale of a two-three page piece exploring ideas about The Void, subjective reality, and empathy:

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPnotmyworld.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPnotmyworld.jpg)

comments?  flames?  praise?

x

edd

Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on July 06, 2009, 05:26:19 PM
those are beautiful!

On the red/blue one, I love the shape in between the circles - is that a fractal flame? I can't read the text in the blue bubble. The text "interpret as you wish" seems a little redundant but maybe it's best to remind people of that.

On the patchwork one, I'd reccommend increasing the white space between the text and the green background. I think I'd like it better without the final line "He had destroyed himself."

Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on July 06, 2009, 05:44:59 PM
im glad you like, i redid the patchwork one based on your suggestions.

the void one, yes that is a fractal flame (and tis very pretty aint it :)).  The text in the blue bubble isn't really important, its just there for background texture, tho it is vaguely related to the subject and i don't mind being infuriatingly ambiguous at times ;)

here is the updated patchwork page

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPdest-1.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPdest-1.jpg)



EDIT:

Also, I was wondering about printing out little handmade booklets and sending to those interested for postage price.  I want to get up to about 20-40 pages before I release anything in this manner, and I know there was some rather major arguments about copyright and such before.  In the end, I imagine other peoples work to make up around 1/10 of the overall content.

I want to experiment with what different types of paper I can print onto, plus maybe binding the final copies in a cloth or leather decorated cover.

Basically, what I am asking is, in the even that people actually pay money for these, are the other contributors going to want the penny profits, or can you be assuaged with free pretty things?
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on July 06, 2009, 06:40:55 PM
That looks great!

one final note - you've got the text on the left side of the page, which will work well if that page is on the left side of a spread. If it ends up being a right page, you might want to move the text to the right.

how many more pages are you working on?
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on July 06, 2009, 06:43:41 PM
see edit :)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on July 06, 2009, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Roaring Biscuit! on July 06, 2009, 05:44:59 PM
Also, I was wondering about printing out little handmade booklets and sending to those interested for postage price.  I want to get up to about 20-40 pages before I release anything in this manner, and I know there was some rather major arguments about copyright and such before.  In the end, I imagine other peoples work to make up around 1/10 of the overall content.

I want to experiment with what different types of paper I can print onto, plus maybe binding the final copies in a cloth or leather decorated cover.

Basically, what I am asking is, in the even that people actually pay money for these, are the other contributors going to want the penny profits, or can you be assuaged with free pretty things?

that sounds awesome! You have permission to use my bits (the parable of the gong & ego sickness) in any way you want.

I'd recommend against making a profit off these unless you created all of the content. Remember the prophecy: "And I looked, and behold a pale llama: and his name that sat on him was Drama." But selling them for cost of print + postage probably won't ruffle any feathers.

Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on July 06, 2009, 07:04:08 PM
well, i can't imagine there being much interest beyond discordian-esque communities, and you guys hate paying for stuff ;)

depending on what materials I decide for pretty-making the cost may be slightly above postage/packaging, but I don't really mind losing a bit of money for something like this :)
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on August 04, 2009, 09:48:53 PM
new things!  well.  a few.
there is the first half a double page spread with this (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=21453.0) (a sorta companion if you will):

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPordinarycompanion-1.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPordinarycompanion-1.jpg)

I also found a photo of part of my end of year art exhibit, which I think would be better acompanying LMNO's "welcome to prison", in a double pg format.  But I'd like some opinion on that, do you think I should include photos?  or do you think it would be better all being in the same scratchy hand-drawn style?

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/th_BIPwelcomecompanion.jpg) (http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/llamaranger/?action=view&current=BIPwelcomecompanion.jpg)

I may also move TGRR's rant to be seperate from the illustration.

I'm also dropping the "who wrote this" bit in favour of a sorta foreword about what the book aims to be.  which is not a lot :p

Then to up the original BIP contribution a bit, I'll probs include one of Cram's bits, cause he seems to have the most interest in the project :)

comments as always appreciated,

x

edd
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Cramulus on August 04, 2009, 10:27:31 PM
I love your art
Title: Re: BIP revamp?
Post by: Roaring Biscuit! on August 04, 2009, 10:33:38 PM
im sure you'd be pleased to know that the walls of that installation were covered in memebombs :)