I finally got around to reading and old Journal of Psychohistory I picked up at a yard sale, and I found this gem:
QuoteSpiegel (1974) Identifies a pattern of personality traits which he calls the Grade Five Syndrom. These are people who are very highly hypnotizable. He estimates their natural occurance in the population at just under 5%. Others have suggested that the frequency is somewhat higher, between 5 and 10% of the population.
These individuals are described as exhibiting a posture of trust that can border on a pathological level of compliance with the wishes and beliefs of those in their environment. They frequently demonstrate trance logic (Orne 1959), which is the capacity to act as if one is unaware of even extreme logical incongruities, and an ease in suspending normal levels of judgment.
And these are the people who continue to make being a Nigerian Prince/Tarot card reader/psychic/politician a viable profession.
They should have a statue built in their honour, really.
It occurs to me that this perfectly explains my mother.
I think it explains a lot of peoples' mothers. And a few First Ladies.
But surely no fathers or First .. Gentlemen (?)
People in power usually have less need of escaping reality. That way, at least.
Wow. Just, wow.
:lol:
One more post....
AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNND SEXISM.
We have arrived. :lulz:
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 07, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
But surely no fathers or First .. Gentlemen (?)
it seemed an accurate description of bush in many ways..
QuoteAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNND SEXISM.
I'm pretty sure I don't follow. The claim I made was that males have traditionally been in power. Is that false?
QuoteOne more post....
One more post 'till what?
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 08:20:39 PM
I finally got around to reading and old Journal of Psychohistory I picked up at a yard sale, and I found this gem:
QuoteSpiegel (1974) Identifies a pattern of personality traits which he calls the Grade Five Syndrom. These are people who are very highly hypnotizable. He estimates their natural occurance in the population at just under 5%. Others have suggested that the frequency is somewhat higher, between 5 and 10% of the population.
These individuals are described as exhibiting a posture of trust that can border on a pathological level of compliance with the wishes and beliefs of those in their environment. They frequently demonstrate trance logic (Orne 1959), which is the capacity to act as if one is unaware of even extreme logical incongruities, and an ease in suspending normal levels of judgment.
HAHAHA it seems Spiegel is sick and fucking tired of stupid people and needed a way to make it sound scientific!!! :mittens: , ftw
He was actually studying hypnosis. The grade fives are the ultra sensitive, essentially hypnotizing themselves.
We all experience this state at times, the people described just live in it pretty much constantly.
The idea that someone can live like that is very :horrormirth:
Quote from: Cainad on June 08, 2009, 12:10:54 AM
The idea that someone can live like that is very :horrormirth:
Wrong! The idea that someone can live like that is actually very $$$'s
See Cain's post.
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 10:56:39 PM
He was actually studying hypnosis. The grade fives are the ultra sensitive, essentially hypnotizing themselves.
I remember RAW mentioning that when he practiced hypnotism, some of his subjects would readily drop straight into a deep trance, instead of the light trance he intended.
This is basically doublethink. I'm sort of suprised that it's just five percent. I've met plenty of people like that...
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 12, 2009, 07:09:39 AM
This is basically doublethink. I'm sort of suprised that it's just five percent. I've met plenty of people like that...
Maybe it's you.
OMGZ PROJECTION!!! :tinfoilhat:
Maybe it's me?
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 12, 2009, 05:17:30 PM
Maybe it's me?
Maybe you're invested in the idea that people who don't think like you but
do think kind of like other people (who are also people you don't think like) are simply easily susceptible to groupthink/suggestion, rather than having some other set of reasons for not thinking like you.
Hmm. Possible. I didn't mean that everyone I know was like that, but I know a fair number of people who make it a rule to follow the group. Or at least that I observed. But you might be right.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 13, 2009, 03:52:11 AM
Hmm. Possible. I didn't mean that everyone I know was like that, but I know a fair number of people who make it a rule to follow the group. Or at least that I observed. But you might be right.
I think you're mistaking the hardwired conformity in all people with being abnormally susceptible to influence. Everyone follows the group doggedly in some situations.
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 12, 2009, 07:09:39 AM
This is basically doublethink. I'm sort of suprised that it's just five percent. I've met plenty of people like that...
When does plenty of people become five percent - how ma ny people are there in your sample, is there sampling bias how would 5% of people appear to you, what are your parameters for making that kind of assumption?
It was just a statement of opinion. And also me being an ass. Sorry if I flapped my gums without a facts supported, expert testimony, argument ready.
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 10:56:39 PM
He was actually studying hypnosis. The grade fives are the ultra sensitive, essentially hypnotizing themselves.
Is there a name for people that are near impossible to hypnotize?
Quote from: Kai on June 14, 2009, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 10:56:39 PM
He was actually studying hypnosis. The grade fives are the ultra sensitive, essentially hypnotizing themselves.
Is there a name for people that are near impossible to hypnotize?
unwilling
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 14, 2009, 06:49:22 PM
It was just a statement of opinion. And also me being an ass. Sorry if I flapped my gums without a facts supported, expert testimony, argument ready.
I don't think any of the commenters meant to suggest you were being an ass. I did not, and apologize if my comment came across that way.
Statistics and anecdotal evidence are notoriously easy to screw up. Don't be surprised when they are endlessly challenged in online discussions. People mostly only accept their
own anecdotal evidence.
Quote from: Arafelis on June 14, 2009, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 14, 2009, 06:49:22 PM
It was just a statement of opinion. And also me being an ass. Sorry if I flapped my gums without a facts supported, expert testimony, argument ready.
I don't think any of the commenters meant to suggest you were being an ass. I did not, and apologize if my comment came across that way.
Statistics and anecdotal evidence are notoriously easy to screw up. Don't be surprised when they are endlessly challenged in online discussions. People mostly only accept their own anecdotal evidence.
Bolded for the source of 75% of all disagreements, online and IRL.
In my own personal experience, of course. :wink:
Quote from: Cainad on June 14, 2009, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: Arafelis on June 14, 2009, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 14, 2009, 06:49:22 PM
It was just a statement of opinion. And also me being an ass. Sorry if I flapped my gums without a facts supported, expert testimony, argument ready.
I don't think any of the commenters meant to suggest you were being an ass. I did not, and apologize if my comment came across that way.
Statistics and anecdotal evidence are notoriously easy to screw up. Don't be surprised when they are endlessly challenged in online discussions. People mostly only accept their own anecdotal evidence.
Bolded for the source of 75% of all disagreements, online and IRL.
In my own personal experience, of course. :wink:
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/goblinhill/GAGGED.gif) (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/goblinhill/icon_rofl.gif)
Fair enough.
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 10:56:39 PM
He was actually studying hypnosis. The grade fives are the ultra sensitive, essentially hypnotizing themselves.
WHY? THE TEEVEE DOES THAT SHIT
FOR YOU!
Quote from: Aufenthatt on June 14, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 13, 2009, 03:52:11 AM
Hmm. Possible. I didn't mean that everyone I know was like that, but I know a fair number of people who make it a rule to follow the group. Or at least that I observed. But you might be right.
I think you're mistaking the hardwired conformity in all people with being abnormally susceptible to influence. Everyone follows the group doggedly in some situations.
Incorrect.
QuoteWHY? THE TEEVEE DOES THAT SHIT FOR YOU!
I think he means that these people don't even need tv to be controlled. It's just who they are. Meat puppets, sort of.
I think he might be too narrow, not everyone who does the self hypnosis thing is going to be conformist. I know a few 'rebels' *cough*pagans*cough* who seem to fit aside from the bits about compliance. they have their own damn fantasies they need to create false memories about.
Quote from: Requia on June 15, 2009, 05:34:26 AM
I think he might be too narrow, not everyone who does the self hypnosis thing is going to be conformist. I know a few 'rebels' *cough*pagans*cough* who seem to fit aside from the bits about compliance. they have their own damn fantasies they need to create false memories about.
I LOL'd
Quote from: Hawk on June 15, 2009, 02:50:15 AM
Quote from: Aufenthatt on June 14, 2009, 09:52:49 AM
Quote from: Dr. James Semaj on June 13, 2009, 03:52:11 AM
Hmm. Possible. I didn't mean that everyone I know was like that, but I know a fair number of people who make it a rule to follow the group. Or at least that I observed. But you might be right.
I think you're mistaking the hardwired conformity in all people with being abnormally susceptible to influence. Everyone follows the group doggedly in some situations.
Incorrect.
Disagree, for certain definitions of "group" and "follow".
Not everyone follows the same group in the same way under the same circumstances; but in everyone will, in some situation, behave in a way that is in accord with a group of some sort or other.
Quote from: fomenter on June 07, 2009, 10:27:49 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 07, 2009, 09:48:40 PM
But surely no fathers or First .. Gentlemen (?)
it seemed an accurate description of bush in many ways..
I know there was a book called "Bush's Brain," which was about Bush's long-time advisor Karl Rove. A lot of people think Bush was a puppet. But I suspect he'd have too much freedom of thought to fit in that five percent. He may not have been much of a political leader, but he did know sports.
Quote from: Requia on June 07, 2009, 08:20:39 PM
I finally got around to reading and old Journal of Psychohistory I picked up at a yard sale, and I found this gem:
QuoteSpiegel (1974) Identifies a pattern of personality traits which he calls the Grade Five Syndrom. These are people who are very highly hypnotizable. He estimates their natural occurance in the population at just under 5%. Others have suggested that the frequency is somewhat higher, between 5 and 10% of the population.
These individuals are described as exhibiting a posture of trust that can border on a pathological level of compliance with the wishes and beliefs of those in their environment. They frequently demonstrate trance logic (Orne 1959), which is the capacity to act as if one is unaware of even extreme logical incongruities, and an ease in suspending normal levels of judgment.
Am I the only one who's thinking, "Where are these people? Maybe we could use them for something...."