I don't get it.
Please to explain concept to horrible old man.
I think it's when you make everything you say wishy-washy so as not to include or exclude everyone.
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:19:34 PM
I think it's when you make everything you say wishy-washy so as not to include or exclude everyone.
So, it's like passive/aggressive behavior codified.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:20:16 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:19:34 PM
I think it's when you make everything you say wishy-washy so as not to include or exclude everyone.
So, it's like passive/aggressive behavior codified.
Yeah, pretty much.
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:20:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:20:16 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:19:34 PM
I think it's when you make everything you say wishy-washy so as not to include or exclude everyone.
So, it's like passive/aggressive behavior codified.
Yeah, pretty much.
Then why not just call it "talk like a city councilman"? I mean, who the fuck uses this shit? Is this one of those corporate fad spagfests?
Quote from: wikipediaE-Prime (short for English-Prime) is a modified form of the English language, users of which avoid any forms of the verb to be: "be", "is", "am", "are", "was", "were", "been" and "being" (and their contractions 'm, 's, and 're). Sentences composed in E-Prime seldom contain the passive voice, which in turn may impel writers or speakers to envisage things differently than they might otherwise (compare the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). By eliminating most uses of the passive voice, E-Prime encourages writers and speakers to make explicit the agent of a statement,[1] possibly making the written text easier to read and understand.
Some people use E-Prime as a mental discipline to filter speech and translate the speech of others.[2] For example, the sentence "the movie was good", translated into E-Prime, could become "I liked the movie". The translation communicates subjective experience rather than judgment. In this example, using E-Prime makes it harder for the writer or reader to confuse a statement of opinion with a statement of fact.
Non-lazy answer: some people decided that modern vernacular English is pretty fucked and the so are the people using it. They decided to deal with this by inventing a variant on English that removes all forms of the verb "to be", which tends to have the effect of making everything the speaker says come out as a statement of subjective opinion or experience, rather than as an objective statement.
I like to imagine that the original plan was that, since E-Prime is so tedious and annoying, we'd all learn to pay more attention to the difference between subjective and objective statements without needing a gimmick to remind us, just so we wouldn't have to speak like twats.
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
Quote from: Cainad on October 06, 2009, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: wikipediaE-Prime (short for English-Prime) is a modified form of the English language, users of which avoid any forms of the verb to be: "be", "is", "am", "are", "was", "were", "been" and "being" (and their contractions 'm, 's, and 're). Sentences composed in E-Prime seldom contain the passive voice, which in turn may impel writers or speakers to envisage things differently than they might otherwise (compare the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). By eliminating most uses of the passive voice, E-Prime encourages writers and speakers to make explicit the agent of a statement,[1] possibly making the written text easier to read and understand.
Some people use E-Prime as a mental discipline to filter speech and translate the speech of others.[2] For example, the sentence "the movie was good", translated into E-Prime, could become "I liked the movie". The translation communicates subjective experience rather than judgment. In this example, using E-Prime makes it harder for the writer or reader to confuse a statement of opinion with a statement of fact.
Non-lazy answer: some people decided that modern vernacular English is pretty fucked and the so are the people using it. They decided to deal with this by inventing a variant on English that removes all forms of the verb "to be", which tends to have the effect of making everything the speaker says come out as a statement of subjective opinion or experience, rather than as an objective statement.
I like to imagine that the original plan was that, since E-Prime is so tedious and annoying, we'd all learn to pay more attention to the difference between subjective and objective statements without needing a gimmick to remind us, just so we wouldn't have to speak like twats.
The people who invented eprime ARE a pack of fucking pussies. <--- objective statement.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Or to demonstrate that it was invented by trekkies.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Or to demonstrate that it was invented by trekkies.
Or, most likely, both.
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:28:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Or to demonstrate that it was invented by trekkies.
Or, most likely, both.
I feel an urge to write a rant in eprime. :lulz:
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Yeah, that.
Failed language experiment is failed. The only people who find it interesting are the sort of people who already get the point it's supposed to get across.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:31:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:28:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 06, 2009, 11:27:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
It's an attempt to mask that it's fucking retarded.
Or to demonstrate that it was invented by trekkies.
Or, most likely, both.
I feel an urge to write a rant in eprime. :lulz:
:ohnotache:
I NEED to see this.
Superboy fucking Prime doesn't fucking use E fucking Prime.
That's all I need to know about it.
new-age stupidity - turning a thought experiment that was supposed to break you out of a ridged world view... into its own ridged world view... yay lets eprime everything :fap:
Quote from: fomenter on October 06, 2009, 11:37:50 PM
new-age stupidity - turning a thought experiment that was supposed to break you out of a ridged world view... into its own ridged world view... yay lets eprime everything :fap:
I can't.
I am a retard. :(
Snicker, Ridged world views.... guffaw.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: fomenter on October 06, 2009, 11:37:50 PM
new-age stupidity - turning a thought experiment that was supposed to break you out of a ridged world view... into its own ridged world view... yay lets eprime everything :fap:
I can't.
I am a retard. :(
i appear to be from my perspective at this point in time to be unable to.
i appear to be from my perspective a retard right now.
the ill effects of a misspent youth in the belly of the new-age beast...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a
', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
eprime makes me want to stabbity stab everything ever
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
Well that's good to hear. That means that its name contains an admission that it is not actually english itself, albeit a half-assed one. (Now if we could only get people to admit that legal jargon, political correctness, and advertisng terms such as "bathroom tissue" aren't english either...)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
Oh my god, your avatar is you!
Quote from: Nigel on October 07, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
Oh my god, your avatar is you!
Yeah, changed it after 7 years.
:lol:
Gotta fix it though, it's too narrow.
Quote from: Nigel on October 07, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
Oh my god, your avatar is you!
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on October 07, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
Quote from: Nigel on October 07, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
Oh my god, your avatar is you!
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Can't you just FEEL the LOVE beaming out at you?
Eprime sucks. Can we talk about 'pataphysics instead?
NLP or GTFO!
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on October 07, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Me too, something cross-wired in my brain and I saw this instead:
(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/spiff_bucket/tgrrimp.jpg)
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on October 07, 2009, 04:42:47 AM
Eprime sucks. Can we talk about 'pataphysics instead?
Sounds good tome. Just as long as nobody tries to hit me in the head with a silver hammer...
...anyway, speaking of 'pataphysics, does anybody know where I can download a copy of
Guignol by Alfred Jarry?
Quote from: fictionpuss on October 07, 2009, 05:16:16 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on October 07, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Me too, something cross-wired in my brain and I saw this instead:
(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/spiff_bucket/tgrrimp.jpg)
:lulz:
The flyin fuck is Pataphysics? *shuffles off to google*
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 04:28:11 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on October 07, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
Quote from: Nigel on October 07, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 02:54:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 12:00:31 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on October 06, 2009, 11:24:39 PM
The sad thing is that even if you eprime the shit out of it people STILL don't get the difference between objective and subjective statements.
I don't get the "prime" part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)
It's a ', sort of. In this context probably means "derived from", so E-prime is "derived from E(nglish)".
At least, that's what I always assumed.
You know, I spent a few years in college in the cave man days, majoring in math and physics. As a result, that makes me want to puke blood all over the fucks that are responsible for this.
Oh my god, your avatar is you!
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Can't you just FEEL the LOVE beaming out at you?
That is some terrifying love, right there.
Quote from: fictionpuss on October 07, 2009, 05:16:16 AM
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on October 07, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
ITS FREAKING ME OUT!!!!
:ohnotache:
Me too, something cross-wired in my brain and I saw this instead:
(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/spiff_bucket/tgrrimp.jpg)
:aaa:
FictionPuss, that is awesome. :mittens:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: fomenter on October 06, 2009, 11:37:50 PM
new-age stupidity - turning a thought experiment that was supposed to break you out of a ridged world view... into its own ridged world view... yay lets eprime everything :fap:
I can't.
I appear to be retarded in relation to this endeavour. :(
E-primed
I just tried to mentally write an eroitc vignette in e-prime. :kingmeh: It couldn't HELP but sounding like bedding a block of liberal bleeding heart tofu.
Heh, it's funny, in my field you can easily tell the difference between those who have Public Policy degrees and those who have degrees in Social Work. The Social Workers use lots of e-prime, they don't want to step on toes or hurt anyone's feelings. Those of us with Public Policy degrees are a bunch of conceited bastards who tell everyone how it is, whether we are right or not.
E-Prime is the uterus that "sombunall" dropped out of.
I like E-Prime, but it -of course- has it's place.
I've always wanted to steal the "Bob" display pic but I fell it would be a dick move
Quote from: Richter on October 07, 2009, 01:04:24 PM
I just tried to mentally write an eroitc vignette in e-prime. :kingmeh: It couldn't HELP but sounding like bedding a block of liberal bleeding heart tofu.
Plz to be sharing.
You haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of bleeding tofu.
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
:x
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
My feelings upon reading this is somewhat like this smiley: :x
There has to be a way to get paid for doing this.
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:48:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
My feelings upon reading this is somewhat like this smiley: :x
There has to be a way to get paid for doing this.
Consultant. Rape them, Cain. Make them pay.
Isn't that what all consultants do?
Or, e-primed, isn't that what mosbunall consultants seem to do?
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:51:56 PM
Isn't that what all consultants do?
Or, e-primed, isn't that what mosbunall consultants seem to do?
Mosbunall??
Also, yes. Do this thing. There are a million suckers that run companies, and it is morally
wrong to allow them to keep their budgets intact.
I've often thought of motivational speaking, myself, but I can't keep a straight face, which is something you Brits are famous for (also, the genetic ability for native Aussies to talk with their mouths closed* can't hurt, either).
* Keeps the bugs out.
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 07, 2009, 06:15:55 AM
The flyin fuck is Pataphysics? *shuffles off to google*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Pataphysics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Pataphysics)
Quote'Pataphysics (French: 'Pataphysique), a term coined by French writer Alfred Jarry (1873 – 1907), is a philosophy or pseudophilosophy dedicated to studying what lies beyond the realm of metaphysics. It is a parody of the theory and methods of modern science and is often expressed in nonsensical language. A practitioner of 'pataphysics is a 'pataphysician or a 'pataphysicist.
There is also a literary device based on 'pataphysics
QuoteThe pataphor (Spanish: patáfora, French: pataphore), is a term coined by writer and musician Pablo Lopez ("Paul Avion"), for an unusually extended metaphor based on Alfred Jarry's "science" of 'pataphysics. As Jarry claimed that 'pataphysics existed "as far from metaphysics as metaphysics extends from regular reality," a pataphor attempts to create a figure of speech that exists as far from metaphor as metaphor exists from non-figurative language. Whereas a metaphor is the comparison of a real object or event with a seemingly unrelated subject in order to emphasize the similarities between the two, the pataphor uses the newly created metaphorical similarity as a reality with which to base itself. In going beyond mere ornamentation of the original idea, the pataphor seeks to describe a new and separate world, in which an idea or aspect has taken on a life of its own.[5][6]
Like 'pataphysics itself, pataphors essentially describe two degrees of separation from reality (rather than merely one degree of separation, which is the world of metaphors and metaphysics). The pataphor may also be said to function as a critical tool, describing the world of "assumptions based on assumptions," such as belief systems or rhetoric run amok. The following is an example.
Non-figurative
Tom and Alice stood side by side in the lunch line.
Metaphor
Tom and Alice stood side by side in the lunch line, two pieces on a chessboard.
Pataphor
Tom took a step closer to Alice and made a date for Friday night, checkmating. Rudy was furious at losing to Margaret so easily and dumped the board on the rose-colored quilt, stomping downstairs.
Thus, the pataphor has created a world where the chessboard exists, including the characters who live in that world, entirely abandoning the original context.[7]
pataphor, by the way, is device which is used extensively in many of the albums recorded by
Firesign Theatre
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 10:24:21 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2009, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: fomenter on October 06, 2009, 11:37:50 PM
new-age stupidity - turning a thought experiment that was supposed to break you out of a ridged world view... into its own ridged world view... yay lets eprime everything :fap:
I can't.
I appear to be retarded in relation to this endeavour. :(
E-primed
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:48:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2009, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 04:01:20 PM
It is my belief that you haven't lived until you've stuck your dick in a block of what appears to be bleeding tofu.
E-primed
My feelings upon reading this is somewhat like this smiley: :x
There has to be a way to get paid for doing this.
Damnit, Cain. You did the exact opposite of what E-prime does!
Like discordia, I need not have respect for any other adherent of E-prime. I will not defend them.
Ideally, E-prime encourages use of ACTION WORDS as the primary verbs in one's thoughts. Fuck 'em if they don't improve for it.
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 06:41:00 PM
Like discordia, I need not have respect for any other adherent of E-prime. I will not defend them.
Ideally, E-prime encourages use of ACTION WORDS as the primary verbs in one's thoughts. Fuck 'em if they don't improve for it.
Wait. You are an adherent of this douchebaggery?
A HERETIC!
I can use e-prime. Triple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point. I honestly did not know that stupidity also used that name.
I just used the One Rule: "Never use to be." Cheap and easy. And I use "to be" as I wish now.
I don't remember why I used adherent.
Ever see that paragraph that has no letter "e" in it? It doesn't seem strange until you know its trick. Same thing here. It doesn't have to be fucking retarded. But some people do.
I don't worry much about e-priming around here anymore, because eprime is as likely to derail the conversation as much as any lack of clarity it was aiming to avoid. I used it for awhile in most of my posts/writings and tried to use it as much in speech as I could. For me, it was a good tool to get me out of the reality I was born and raised in... where everything was very black or very white. I was surprised at how the overt religious indoctrination appeared to infect my view of pretty much everything.
However, it can be overused (like by me)... its a great tool for internal use... its a good filter to run your comments/arguments/essays through to check for unintended bias. Its not so good for direct communication... at least not if the other people you're communicating with have a strong dislike for e Prime.
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 07:29:07 PM
I can use e-prime. Triple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point. I honestly did not know that stupidity also used that name.
I just used the One Rule: "Never use to be." Cheap and easy. And I use "to be" as I wish now.
I don't remember why I used adherent.
Ever see that paragraph that has no letter "e" in it? It doesn't seem strange until you know its trick. Same thing here. It doesn't have to be fucking retarded. But some people do.
I don't see the benefit. Enlighten me.
Some people feel that the language they use helps shape they way the think and see the world around them.
To this end, they feel that using versions of "to be" sets up an either/or mentality that misses the subtleties of perception; further, they feel that it creates a false indication of objectivity, when most things people say are entirely subjective.
But I thought you knew this, because I can't help remember you might have asked this question a year or two ago...
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 07:55:43 PM
Some people feel that the language they use helps shape they way the think and see the world around them.
They're wrong. Language is how they describe the world around them. It's like mistaking math for science.
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 07:55:43 PM
But I thought you knew this, because I can't help remember you might have asked this question a year or two ago...
Probably. My brain has the consistency of watery oatmeal, these days.
see also http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=13355.0
From that thread.
Quote from: Cain on July 14, 2007, 02:14:01 PM
E-prime removes Platonic assumptions about the nature of reality from language and replaces it with a more subjective analysis.
When you say "something is something" what you are essentially saying is that the object in question shares the essence of the trait you are describing. Therefore, if you say "Saddam Hussein is evil" you are not only making an assumption about the existence and nature of evil, you are also saying Saddam is an avatar of sorts for this trait.
It brings all sort of implicit assumptions that can create very nasty side effects. It is no coincidence that both Christianity and Fascism can be traced back to Plato. The basic assumptions of the existence of transcendental absolutes has always been a recipe for disaster in the hands of apes. Because apes are thick as bricks and if they believe some group is harbouring the essence of evil, then they are totally justified in wiping it out, be it Jews or Heathens.
I will admit, though, it always kills the FUNNAY.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2009, 08:02:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 07, 2009, 07:55:43 PM
Some people feel that the language they use helps shape they way the think and see the world around them.
They're wrong. Language is how they describe the world around them. It's like mistaking math for science.
Alfred Korzybski disagreed with that view. Which is why he began the development of General Semantics. That system holds that language and thought are a two way street... We use language to describe the world we see, AND the language we use modifies our perception of what we see (bars in our BIP). If we say "X is Y" our brain records that and tends to stick with that as a FACT. E-Prime was intended to remove that IS and surround it with actual meaning.
"TGRR is an ass" therefore, would make it easy to believe/know/conclude that TGRR is an ass.
"TGRR appears as an Ass on PD.com when dealing with ignorance, stupidity and pinealism" makes it clear that TGRR might not be an ass all the time.*
There is a more complex linguistic theory called the Sapier-Whorf Hypothesis which takes this concept to a much deeper level and claims that societies tend to perceive reality in a way that is heavily modified by the language that they use. Some of the extreme examples they documented, included a group of natives in South America which perceive the past and future in an extremely different way than most humans. The hypothesis claims that this is an influence of the words they use to describe the past and future.
Another society perceives 5 different sexes, rather than just two. The hypothesis claims that this is also (at least partially) based on the language they use.
There are places where its extremely useful... generally in documenting observations for a scientific purpose. The old RAW example:
"Light is a wave"
"Light is a particle"
vs.
"Light can be measured as a particle using instrument X"
"Light can be measured as a wave using instrument Y"
The two former would lead to a static view in the mind of the individual that Light IS a wave or particle... whereas the e-primed versions make the observation more clear.
- Rat
* This is just an example, I would never accuse you of not being an Ass all the time ;-)
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on October 07, 2009, 10:12:50 PM
* This is just an example, I would never accuse you of not being an Ass all the time ;-)
Good. I was gonna have to lose my mind.
Up in here, up in here.
I think over 3/4ths of my posts are in e-prime, or in the spirit of e-prime.
I find that sensitivity towards language helpful in organizing my own thoughts and clearly articulating what I mean. It's a very precise use of language, but like scientific language, it isn't for every situation.
I suspect many people don't actually find the usage of e-prime annoying, so much as they find the word e-prime annoying. (Perhaps due to raw associations?) Reminds me of the word "meme" that gradually became really annoying to some people around here. I probably post more about memetics now than I did before the NO MORE MEME blitz, but have avoided using the word itself. (for memetic reasons :p) It seems like discussion about memetics doesn't bug people, the usage of the word memetics bugs people.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2009, 10:44:58 PM
I suspect many people don't actually find the usage of e-prime annoying, so much as they find the word e-prime annoying.
Probably. Also, I am a very subjective person, and I tend to make strong statements (in case anyone missed that).
Also, eprime is far too polite as a concept for me to deal with properly.
:lulz:
okay okay okay okay okay
:news:
From now on, E'' (pronounced: "e double-prime") is the opposite of e-prime. It's phrasing everything in absolute language.
Sometimes known as Roger Prime
for example:
"Anarchists have brain damage."
"4E is not D&D"
"Your mother is a whore."
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2009, 10:53:34 PM
okay okay okay okay okay
:news:
From now on, E'' (pronounced: "e double-prime") is the opposite of e-prime. It's phrasing everything in absolute language.
Sometimes known as Roger Prime
for example:
"Anarchists have brain damage."
"4E is not D&D"
"Your mother is a whore."
THIS IS A GOOD IDEA. END OF FUCKING STORY.
it only appears that way
/
:judge:
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
CRAM WINS EVERYTHING.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2009, 10:53:34 PM
okay okay okay okay okay
:news:
From now on, E'' (pronounced: "e double-prime") is the opposite of e-prime. It's phrasing everything in absolute language.
Sometimes known as Roger Prime
for example:
"Anarchists have brain damage."
"4E is not D&D"
"Your mother is a whore."
I might have to try this - I tend to pseudo e-prime my statements (and I think I've been doing it for years) more out of a concern for strict literal truthfulness. I don't want to overstate my knowledge; and when I do overstate my knowledge I'm often lying on purpose.I will try this. I have e-primed statements. I intended to never to overstate my knowledge. When I intended to overstate my knowledge, I also intended to lie,
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on October 07, 2009, 11:26:42 PM
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
SOMEBODY WOMP ME! THROW THE SWITCH, IGOR! THROW THE FUCKING SWITCH!
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 07:29:07 PMTriple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point.
It was sarcasm/satire.
Really, "please read the above post to be in e-prime (whcih means you cant be offended, neener-neener)"
In hindsight, maybe I shoudl have written out the parenthesized bit.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 11:52:27 PM
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 07:29:07 PMTriple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point.
It was sarcasm/satire.
Really, "please read the above post to be in e-prime (whcih means you cant be offended, neener-neener)"
In hindsight, maybe I shoudl have written out the parenthesized bit.
I thought it was pretty funny. But then, I've been on the board for a while, and in the middle of a few e-prime "conversations".
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 11:52:27 PM
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 07:29:07 PMTriple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point.
It was sarcasm/satire.
Really, "please read the above post to be in e-prime (whcih means you cant be offended, neener-neener)"
In hindsight, maybe I shoudl have written out the parenthesized bit.
Oh. In any case, I hereby disclaim any and all ties to e-prime. I enjoy the game of using English without any instance of "to be". Any and all other aspects of e-prime can die in a fire.
And I imagine I could simply introduce the game directly in the future. "Hey, who wants to play
Who needs "to be"? "
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 07, 2009, 11:52:27 PM
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 07, 2009, 07:29:07 PMTriple Zero mentioned it favorably in his sig at one point.
It was sarcasm/satire.
Really, "please read the above post to be in e-prime (whcih means you cant be offended, neener-neener)"
In hindsight, maybe I shoudl have written out the parenthesized bit.
NO WAI, I TOTALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE FOR SIRIUS!
Quote from: Cramulus on October 07, 2009, 10:44:58 PM
I think over 3/4ths of my posts are in e-prime, or in the spirit of e-prime.
I find that sensitivity towards language helpful in organizing my own thoughts and clearly articulating what I mean. It's a very precise use of language, but like scientific language, it isn't for every situation.
I suspect many people don't actually find the usage of e-prime annoying, so much as they find the word e-prime annoying. (Perhaps due to raw associations?) Reminds me of the word "meme" that gradually became really annoying to some people around here. I probably post more about memetics now than I did before the NO MORE MEME blitz, but have avoided using the word itself. (for memetic reasons :p) It seems like discussion about memetics doesn't bug people, the usage of the word memetics bugs people.
This is why I'm enjoying Malcolm Gladwell's
The Tipping Point, actually. It's 103% about memetics, but halfway through the book he has yet to use the word "meme" or any variant thereof. I think it's useful to get the same or very similar ideas filtered through different language.