You insufferable twits. What the hell do you think the classes on English and grammar were for when you were growing up? So you could read Shakespeare? NO! So you could fucking communicate on a basic level with other English speakers, like me, the authorities, the people you may need if it all drops in the pot and you find yourself swimming in shit with no way out but to ask someone you just got fuckin thru bitching about in some half assed monkey spooge way that is only understandable by your own little clique.
Look, I grew up in America, I'm hispanic and I speak English with no fucking accent! you grew up in America, are white or black and all you can do is slur some kind of garbled mess at me when you want to ask me for help or to get some kind of assistance from someone? Give me a fucking break! Every time you "Axe" for something, I wanna give you an axe to the cranium ya low browed fuck for brains! Enunciate just a little, try it, it won't kill you, and in fact it may save your worthless, dubiously sentient carcass from a premature demise! Do not ask me to learn to understand stupid when I have actually taken the time to learn how to speak properly and develop a vocabulary larger than what is required to order a pizza.
...or kill me.
b|_|1 K4n j00 5p33k 1337 |\||_|bz0r ''¿ |-|R|-|R|-|R
PROTIP: If you are going to bitch about people's spelling and/or grammar don't fall prey to Muphry's law.
HE SAID MUPHRY LOOOOOL
**snaps back from script kiddie mode**
oh fuck that, i only knew murphy's law existed, not murphry's. :argh!:
Quote from: JohNyx on October 15, 2009, 06:03:42 AM
b|_|1 K4n j00 5p33k 1337 |\||_|bz0r ''¿ |-|R|-|R|-|R
I fuckin hate 1337 speak man. but I can almost read that. Funny how sleep deprivation can fuck your head like that eh?
O insufferable twits, what purpose did you imagine your English and grammar courses served? Readings from Shakespeare? NAY! You were to take from those lessons the skill to communicate readily with we other Anglophones. You need me and other Anglophone authorities when disaster strikes and all your other resources are at an end, with still more ill fate unrealized. I know when you come seeking my aid that just prior you spoke ill of me in some hideous, primordial jargon comprehensible only to members of your pitiful clique.
Make note: I am American-reared, though of Hispanic blood. My accent does not differ from that of respected locals. You grew up in this same land, and by your skin color presume yourselves rightful heirs of this land. Your speech does not reflect this: even when petitioning those with the rare power to aid yourself your utterances are slurred and garbled. It is insufferable! Each usage of "axe" for "ask" reignites in myself the desire to condescend to axe-wielding violence! I enjoin ye: enunciate! It can do no harm, and may help you survive your petty misfortunes. I forswear any further efforts to comprehend nigh-verbalized stupidity. It is unbecoming one who endeavors to speak properly and possess a vocabulary in surplus of that needed to acquire the necessities.
Peasants of old knew of propriety, even if they lacked skill in it.
Or slay me.
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First I was like whooooa :p
Then I was like WHOOOA, :eek:
And now I'm like, AH GODS DAMN YOU! MY EYES!! MY EYES!!! :argh!:
Whoops, did I accidentally log on to Fox Nation again?
They unbearably twits. the hell thinks of the classes on the and the for this, if to read to Shakespeare? kissing communicates on a fundamental height with other English spokesmen, since authority the people to which can need, if this all the drops in the vessel and they are found, nothing in the crap with any exit, but to ask that someone has only fuckin through besides something semi-assed of the monkeys the road spooge is only comprehensible by its own lobby.
I they grew in America I am Latin American - american and I do not speak with accent condemned? In America is white or black and all that can do, perhaps the sure offense many of incomprehensible if wants to ask me for the aid or to receive to many of the aid of someone - A break condemn? Time that you for some "blows", I an axe gives wanna in cranium. Already low browed kisses for brains! only a test - this, this not you, and to say this is able? its without value, doubtfully capable of a death. Ask - I to learn to understand have to speak as dumb conveniently and to learn extensively a vocabulary that is demand to have a pizza.
... Then the launch I.
bolded my favourite bits, free translations can be fun :)
Because, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, I know plenty of professional and educated people, who can clearly enunciate words, big $300 dollar words, string them together, and say absolutely nothing.
y'knowhatimsayin?
But, at least it's clear that they are full of shit.
I've heard some people talk and been completely unable to determine whether they just said the most intelligent thing in history, or commented on some recent bodily function... even when they have a pleading tone, as if they truly want me to understand them...
Of course, i support the splintering of language upon fine subcultural lines, however, there is an obvious merit in shared understanding, and the sentiment in the OP is valid in regards to those who can't speak the common language as opposed to won't speak it for whatever reason...
I blame texting. When your kid looks at you and says IDK not I don't know, just the fucking letters I D K can you smack the crap out of them without going to jail?
IDK.
My mother's an English Major. You can imagine her horror when I first uttered the word "lulz".
I said, "lol" once in front of my mom. And she went, "Really? You're REALLY too fucking lazy to even LAUGH?!"
:x
Not that it matters of course. Most people in Rhode Island assume I'm stupid for having a Southern accent anyway, because 8 people this past week asked if I was from Alabama, and one even asked if it was true that all people from the South were racist. :argh!:
I didn't really hear a southern accent when we met.
Then again, mine only shows up after a certain number of drinks, so...
Either way, some southern accents are downright sexy.
Also to OP: You should vent to Herbert about this. He is also Hispanic, grew up speaking English and works in retail. Of course, up here he's had a knife or two pulled on him for not speaking Spanish to people who refused to speak English, but you know...
This topic is a tricky one for me since I'm so moderate about it. I believe that people should be able to express themselves however they see fit through communication, even if it means slinging poo at each other, but at the same time, I also think that to perform business on a professional level, even a customer service question in a retail store, you need to be able to speak English fluently enough to do so. Then a lot of the slang issues go back to, in my opinion, parents not working with their children enough to appreciate the nuances of speaking intelligently, since it's rather important for things such as, you know, getting a job or the like, but hey, I'm guilty as charged at times myself.
Has Or Kill Me been turned into a bitching board?
Goddammit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2009, 05:10:58 PM
Has Or Kill Me been turned into a bitching board?
Goddammit.
Karmic result of a deeply meaningful thread occurring in Apple Talk?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=22449.0
Quote from: yhnmzw on October 15, 2009, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 15, 2009, 05:10:58 PM
Has Or Kill Me been turned into a bitching board?
Goddammit.
Karmic result of a deeply meaningful thread occurring in Apple Talk?
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=22449.0
I'm thinking so.
En español, por favor.
Quote from: RWH1N1 on October 15, 2009, 10:53:35 AM
Whoops, did I accidentally log on to Fox Nation again?
No, they are down on people who wont learn English cause they are from somewhere else. I am talking about those people who will not learn to enunciate simple fuckin words. It annoys me because I deal with people on the phone all day and while I speak clearly and enunciate words, they jibber jabber and mutter some incoherent gobbeldy gook that might be cool amongst their pals, but means nothing to someone trying to do a job, or in my case dispatch an emergency crew when needed.
Quote from: LMNO on October 15, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
I didn't really hear a southern accent when we met.
Then again, mine only shows up after a certain number of drinks, so...
Either way, some southern accents are downright sexy.
Yours does that too? People make fun of me when I get drinky and drawl. And it's not like I switch it on or nothin'.
I have some thoughts on prescriptivism and speech, but I have to call the Asst. Superintendent of Schools now and bitch out my principal. L8r, sk8rs.
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 15, 2009, 05:48:00 AM
You insufferable twits. What the hell do you think the classes on English and grammar were for when you were growing up? So you could read Shakespeare? NO! So you could fucking communicate on a basic level with other English speakers, like me, the authorities, the people you may need if it all drops in the pot and you find yourself swimming in shit with no way out but to ask someone you just got fuckin thru bitching about in some half assed monkey spooge way that is only understandable by your own little clique.
Look, I grew up in America, I'm hispanic and I speak English with no fucking accent! you grew up in America, are white or black and all you can do is slur some kind of garbled mess at me when you want to ask me for help or to get some kind of assistance from someone? Give me a fucking break! Every time you "Axe" for something, I wanna give you an axe to the cranium ya low browed fuck for brains! Enunciate just a little, try it, it won't kill you, and in fact it may save your worthless, dubiously sentient carcass from a premature demise! Do not ask me to learn to understand stupid when I have actually taken the time to learn how to speak properly and develop a vocabulary larger than what is required to order a pizza.
...or kill me.
You're simply NOT the target member of their speech community. You don't recognize the covert prestige of their lexicon, and therefore you're frustrated with the lack of communicability between you.
Now, if you were part of their cohort, you'd realize that they are using perfectly acceptable linguistic registers. You'd realize that they were only using the language that is commonly known within their microcosm, and exhibiting behaviors that coincide. You do have a common linguistic form that you can share, but both interlocutors have to agree to use this register, and code-switch accordingly.
In other words, they're not talking to you, they're talking to others near you. If they meant for you to respond or NOT be annoyed, they'd speak using the words you use in the way you use them. So by going off, you're just playing into their hands...or worrying/venting about something that has nothing to do with you.
(that's my view on prescriptivsm and spoken discourse, and I'm sticking to it)
This is true.
Its only when they're communicating with YOU and being difficult that it becomes an issue. You don't go to Germany and bitch about the Germans speaking German to their friends do you?
Quote from: Jenne on October 15, 2009, 10:32:32 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 15, 2009, 05:48:00 AM
You insufferable twits. What the hell do you think the classes on English and grammar were for when you were growing up? So you could read Shakespeare? NO! So you could fucking communicate on a basic level with other English speakers, like me, the authorities, the people you may need if it all drops in the pot and you find yourself swimming in shit with no way out but to ask someone you just got fuckin thru bitching about in some half assed monkey spooge way that is only understandable by your own little clique.
Look, I grew up in America, I'm hispanic and I speak English with no fucking accent! you grew up in America, are white or black and all you can do is slur some kind of garbled mess at me when you want to ask me for help or to get some kind of assistance from someone? Give me a fucking break! Every time you "Axe" for something, I wanna give you an axe to the cranium ya low browed fuck for brains! Enunciate just a little, try it, it won't kill you, and in fact it may save your worthless, dubiously sentient carcass from a premature demise! Do not ask me to learn to understand stupid when I have actually taken the time to learn how to speak properly and develop a vocabulary larger than what is required to order a pizza.
...or kill me.
You're simply NOT the target member of their speech community. You don't recognize the covert prestige of their lexicon, and therefore you're frustrated with the lack of communicability between you.
Now, if you were part of their cohort, you'd realize that they are using perfectly acceptable linguistic registers. You'd realize that they were only using the language that is commonly known within their microcosm, and exhibiting behaviors that coincide. You do have a common linguistic form that you can share, but both interlocutors have to agree to use this register, and code-switch accordingly.
In other words, they're not talking to you, they're talking to others near you. If they meant for you to respond or NOT be annoyed, they'd speak using the words you use in the way you use them. So by going off, you're just playing into their hands...or worrying/venting about something that has nothing to do with you.
(that's my view on prescriptivism and spoken discourse, and I'm sticking to it)
Not everyone knows enough language to switch registers/dialects that easily, though. In an emergency situation, I'd think they'd prioritize communicability - which either indicates that the don't have enough doings outside their language bubble (which you can't complain about, OP, since you apparently don't either) or that in moments of panic they revert to their most familiar method of talking and forget that the dispatcher can't understand that dialect except with mild difficulty.
Also, OP, when you say "English," are you talking about American Midwestern Vernacular? If so, that's a pretty idiosyncratic definition of English.
Quote from: Jenne on October 15, 2009, 10:32:32 PM
You're simply NOT the target member of their speech community. You don't recognize the covert prestige of their lexicon, and therefore you're frustrated with the lack of communicability between you.
Now, if you were part of their cohort, you'd realize that they are using perfectly acceptable linguistic registers. You'd realize that they were only using the language that is commonly known within their microcosm, and exhibiting behaviors that coincide. You do have a common linguistic form that you can share, but both interlocutors have to agree to use this register, and code-switch accordingly.
In other words, they're not talking to you, they're talking to others near you. If they meant for you to respond or NOT be annoyed, they'd speak using the words you use in the way you use them. So by going off, you're just playing into their hands...or worrying/venting about something that has nothing to do with you.
This.
Although who knows... maybe ur part of the
grammar police and a snob, or maybe ur dealing with people that just dont have education, or maybe not even that, they just lazy?
I'm really pretty strongly in favor of language fracturing. Different languages create different ways of thinking, different ways of perceiving the world and the more of those there are the better in my opinion.
Of course people limit themselves when they choose to interact in only one dialect, but that is just as true of the person who remains stuck in Upper Midwestern as it is the person who can't stop communicating in Honkybonics.
Quote from: LMNO on October 15, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
I didn't really hear a southern accent when we met.
Then again, mine only shows up after a certain number of drinks, so...
Either way, some southern accents are downright sexy.
I tend to keep it under control these days. I find it does me more harm than good. Plus, the addition of the word "wicked" to my vocabulary is slowly starting to eat away at my pronunciation of the letter "R". Therefore, I've started to develop a new fandangled sort of personal vernacular that's horrific.
Oh, I can handle dialects. I can switch them so fast that I have had full conversations with myself for auditions. No, rather it's the lazy speech patterns that annoy me. Like Axe instead of Ask, or Amboolance instead of Ambulance. Pronunciation I guess. And it may be that I am just getting older and becoming more intractable and grumpy. My parlance tends to consist of colloquialisms from the sixties and seventies and I say Dude...way more than I should. I actually have to think when I deliberately spell things shorthand, and I am a self avowed "Grammar Nazi" amongst my friends, though I am mellowing.
I grew up in the South, Alabama to be more precise, and I still get old guys who ask me, "You aint frem araound hyar, are ya Boay?" That phrase always makes me nervous.
Quote from: GA on October 15, 2009, 11:37:27 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 15, 2009, 10:32:32 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 15, 2009, 05:48:00 AM
You insufferable twits. What the hell do you think the classes on English and grammar were for when you were growing up? So you could read Shakespeare? NO! So you could fucking communicate on a basic level with other English speakers, like me, the authorities, the people you may need if it all drops in the pot and you find yourself swimming in shit with no way out but to ask someone you just got fuckin thru bitching about in some half assed monkey spooge way that is only understandable by your own little clique.
Look, I grew up in America, I'm hispanic and I speak English with no fucking accent! you grew up in America, are white or black and all you can do is slur some kind of garbled mess at me when you want to ask me for help or to get some kind of assistance from someone? Give me a fucking break! Every time you "Axe" for something, I wanna give you an axe to the cranium ya low browed fuck for brains! Enunciate just a little, try it, it won't kill you, and in fact it may save your worthless, dubiously sentient carcass from a premature demise! Do not ask me to learn to understand stupid when I have actually taken the time to learn how to speak properly and develop a vocabulary larger than what is required to order a pizza.
...or kill me.
You're simply NOT the target member of their speech community. You don't recognize the covert prestige of their lexicon, and therefore you're frustrated with the lack of communicability between you.
Now, if you were part of their cohort, you'd realize that they are using perfectly acceptable linguistic registers. You'd realize that they were only using the language that is commonly known within their microcosm, and exhibiting behaviors that coincide. You do have a common linguistic form that you can share, but both interlocutors have to agree to use this register, and code-switch accordingly.
In other words, they're not talking to you, they're talking to others near you. If they meant for you to respond or NOT be annoyed, they'd speak using the words you use in the way you use them. So by going off, you're just playing into their hands...or worrying/venting about something that has nothing to do with you.
(that's my view on prescriptivism and spoken discourse, and I'm sticking to it)
Not everyone knows enough language to switch registers/dialects that easily, though. In an emergency situation, I'd think they'd prioritize communicability - which either indicates that the don't have enough doings outside their language bubble (which you can't complain about, OP, since you apparently don't either) or that in moments of panic they revert to their most familiar method of talking and forget that the dispatcher can't understand that dialect except with mild difficulty.
wut? Are you talking about second-language-learners? Because that's not the case here.
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 16, 2009, 04:50:25 AM
Oh, I can handle dialects. I can switch them so fast that I have had full conversations with myself for auditions. No, rather it's the lazy speech patterns that annoy me. Like Axe instead of Ask, or Amboolance instead of Ambulance. Pronunciation I guess. And it may be that I am just getting older and becoming more intractable and grumpy. My parlance tends to consist of colloquialisms from the sixties and seventies and I say Dude...way more than I should. I actually have to think when I deliberately spell things shorthand, and I am a self avowed "Grammar Nazi" amongst my friends, though I am mellowing.
I grew up in the South, Alabama to be more precise, and I still get old guys who ask me, "You aint frem araound hyar, are ya Boay?" That phrase always makes me nervous.
The point: you are missing it entirely.
It's not LAZY speech. It's just a different KIND.
And America doesn't have an official spoken language, by the way. England does, but America doesn't. Official written is what's used to simulate one, however.
The more he posts, the more I realize he's pretty much the kind of person who gets pissed off when you end a sentence with a preposition, or consistently misspell "necessary", only aurally.
To be fair, English teachers (frankly, most language teachers) will tell you that there is only ONE form of a language and all other usages are just LAZY. It's not till you take classes on the social dynamics and utilitarian nature of language that you really learn that's just so much scare-tactic bullshit.
Quote from: LMNO on October 16, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
The more he posts, the more I realize he's pretty much the kind of person who gets pissed off when you end a sentence with a preposition,
I kinda like that.
TGRR,
Was damaged by a Canadian upbringing.
Quote from: Jenne on October 16, 2009, 01:50:29 PM
To be fair, English teachers (frankly, most language teachers) will tell you that there is only ONE form of a language and all other usages are just LAZY. It's not till you take classes on the social dynamics and utilitarian nature of language that you really learn that's just so much scare-tactic bullshit.
There IS only one form.
RPRIME.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 16, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 16, 2009, 01:50:29 PM
To be fair, English teachers (frankly, most language teachers) will tell you that there is only ONE form of a language and all other usages are just LAZY. It's not till you take classes on the social dynamics and utilitarian nature of language that you really learn that's just so much scare-tactic bullshit.
There IS only one form.
RPRIME.
Well, yes, of course. ;)
If anyone isn't willing to speak RPRIME, they should be civily given one chance to deport and learn Esperanto. They can then spend the rest of their lives talking with people who've learned Esperanto, and watching William Shatner movies.
Quote from: Richter on October 16, 2009, 01:55:25 PM
If anyone isn't willing to speak RPRIME, they should be civily given one chance to deport and learn Esperanto. They can then spend the rest of their lives talking with people who've learned Esperanto, and watching William Shatner movies.
Everyone should watch William Shatner Movies.
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 16, 2009, 04:50:25 AM
Oh, I can handle dialects. I can switch them so fast that I have had full conversations with myself for auditions. No, rather it's the lazy speech patterns that annoy me. Like Axe instead of Ask, or Amboolance instead of Ambulance. Pronunciation I guess.
How is that laziness? It's not like it's harder to pronounce "ask" or "ambulance". It's just dialect; it's how they grew up pronouncing those words. Like when people say "nucular", or add an R into "wash".
In my opinion everyone in the US should be taught how to speak academic English, but reality is that they're not. You really going to call them lazy for not being able to switch between dialects with great facility?
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 16, 2009, 04:50:25 AM
Oh, I can handle dialects. I can switch them so fast that I have had full conversations with myself for auditions. No, rather it's the lazy speech patterns that annoy me. Like Axe instead of Ask, or Amboolance instead of Ambulance. Pronunciation I guess. And it may be that I am just getting older and becoming more intractable and grumpy. My parlance tends to consist of colloquialisms from the sixties and seventies and I say Dude...way more than I should. I actually have to think when I deliberately spell things shorthand, and I am a self avowed "Grammar Nazi" amongst my friends, though I am mellowing.
I grew up in the South, Alabama to be more precise, and I still get old guys who ask me, "You aint frem araound hyar, are ya Boay?" That phrase always makes me nervous.
Axe instead of Ask isn't lazy, it's dialect. That one I know for sure because I was researching Doric for a roleplaying character and it is part of that dialect, it even gave the origins. I didn't bookmark it unfortunately but it is a part of Doric Scots as well as American Southern.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 17, 2009, 09:25:16 AM
Axe instead of Ask isn't lazy, it's dialect. That one I know for sure because I was researching Doric for a roleplaying character and it is part of that dialect, it even gave the origins. I didn't bookmark it unfortunately but it is a part of Doric Scots as well as American Southern.
Gussy it up however you like. Dialect is just another word for LAZY. :argh!:
You COULD start correcting people on a regular basis like my brother does. However, my brother is also built like a linebacker...
You know what's lazy? People who complain about their inability to understand dialects instead of actually taking the time to listen and learn. Thats fucking lazy.
Quote from: Kai on October 18, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
You know what's lazy? People who complain about their inability to understand dialects instead of actually taking the time to listen and learn. Thats fucking lazy.
:lulz:
Quote from: Kai on October 18, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
You know what's lazy? People who complain about their inability to understand dialects instead of actually taking the time to listen and learn. Thats fucking lazy.
YESSSSSSS
Quote from: Brotep on October 18, 2009, 04:12:46 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 17, 2009, 09:25:16 AM
Axe instead of Ask isn't lazy, it's dialect. That one I know for sure because I was researching Doric for a roleplaying character and it is part of that dialect, it even gave the origins. I didn't bookmark it unfortunately but it is a part of Doric Scots as well as American Southern.
Gussy it up however you like. Dialect is just another word for LAZY. :argh!:
DAMN MEXICANS AND NIGGERS ARE LAZY!
\
:mullet:
/
GET TO WORK ON LEARNING ENGLISH YOU FUCKIN JEW-NIGGER-MEXICANS!
Umm, it seems to me that if someone knows someone is pronouncing something "wrong", then they obviously understand what it is they are "trying" to pronounce, in which case, the communication IS getting through, is it not? I mean, if you know that when someone says "axe" they are saying "ask", what difference does it make? You DO know what they are saying. Why does it matter to you that they pronounce it in a different manner? It IS dialect, and it is part of culture.
No. This thread is about people with other cultural backgrounds than mine are lazy.
Quote from: LMNO on October 16, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
The more he posts, the more I realize he's pretty much the kind of person who gets pissed off when you end a sentence with a preposition, or consistently misspell "necessary", only aurally.
He sounds more like a guy who doesn't realize there's a world outside of American boundaries
Quote from: Nigel on October 16, 2009, 05:38:17 PM
How is that laziness? It's not like it's harder to pronounce "ask" or "ambulance". It's just dialect; it's how they grew up pronouncing those words. Like when people say "nucular", or add an R into "wash".
In my opinion everyone in the US should be taught how to speak academic English, but reality is that they're not. You really going to call them lazy for not being able to switch between dialects with great facility?
Mmm, yeah. I studied, and learned and developed a vocabulary. I know I don't always speak properly or spell things correctly, but once I realize I have made an error I try to correct it. I consider it lazy if someone is confronted with a mistake and make no effort at all to correct it. It isn't about where you were brought up, or your ethnic background.
ZOMG PERSCRIPTIVISM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 06:22:35 AM
Quote from: Nigel on October 16, 2009, 05:38:17 PM
How is that laziness? It's not like it's harder to pronounce "ask" or "ambulance". It's just dialect; it's how they grew up pronouncing those words. Like when people say "nucular", or add an R into "wash".
In my opinion everyone in the US should be taught how to speak academic English, but reality is that they're not. You really going to call them lazy for not being able to switch between dialects with great facility?
Mmm, yeah. I studied, and learned and developed a vocabulary. I know I don't always speak properly or spell things correctly, but once I realize I have made an error I try to correct it. I consider it lazy if someone is confronted with a mistake and make no effort at all to correct it. It isn't about where you were brought up, or your ethnic background.
You are making the error of assuming that there IS a properly when it comes to American English. There isn't. It's a foundational principle of the approach to language in this country that there cannot, truly, be an objective standard to determine what English is proper and what is not. All there can be is a recording of the commonly used vernacular.
Read up on Webster (you know the guy the dictionary is named after) some time.
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Interesting perspective. Just what state are you from?
What is wrong with a southern drawl? The whole state reads on a 7th grade level? Yet the south has some of the top colleges in the US AND most southern states are in the top 25 educationally. Isn't that strange?
And being uneducated in this day and age is the "easy way"?
Dialect is an indulgence? So technically you are saying an accent is an indulgence?
I think it is people like you who enable the south to continue with the reputation of being uneducated hicks.
Congratulations you can read and you talk like you are from nowhere!!!
I suggest a nice canoe trip. Help you get a bit of perspective....
But Khara, the media constantly sends the message that people from the south are dumb hicks, so of course it must be true...
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Hm...see, that can work both ways. To my mind, those who refuse to adapt to a different linguistic environment are lazy and uneducated. Lazy because they just want everyone to use words and pronounce them as they do themselves. And uneducated because they don't recognize the need for different speech communities to unify through linguistic vehicles.
It's all in your perspective.
Quote from: LMNO on October 21, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
But Khara, the media constantly sends the message that people from the south are dumb hicks, so of course it must be true...
ZOMG LMNO you are right! I am not taking advatage of the media hype. I can quit trying.... :lulz:
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
What if they're really good at, say, woodworking? Guitar making? Mechanics?
Does that make you lazy for not having learned those skills?
By your logic, it does. Lazy ass.
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2009, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Hm...see, that can work both ways. To my mind, those who refuse to adapt to a different linguistic environment are lazy and uneducated. Lazy because they just want everyone to use words and pronounce them as they do themselves. And uneducated because they don't recognize the need for different speech communities to unify through linguistic vehicles.
It's all in your perspective.
It's kind of the ultimate Ugly American stereotype... not only expecting everyone else to speak their language, but expecting them to speak their DIALECT.
Quote from: Nigel on October 21, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2009, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Hm...see, that can work both ways. To my mind, those who refuse to adapt to a different linguistic environment are lazy and uneducated. Lazy because they just want everyone to use words and pronounce them as they do themselves. And uneducated because they don't recognize the need for different speech communities to unify through linguistic vehicles.
It's all in your perspective.
It's kind of the ultimate Ugly American stereotype... not only expecting everyone else to speak their language, but expecting them to speak their DIALECT.
Yeah, but it's not specific to Americans, thankfully. Any person from any given culture, I've noticed, has a certain percentage of regional dialect prejudice. I think it's natural...you have to sort of overcome it, I think. Or have ignored those markers as positively significant when you were growing up.
Group cohesion crap id say... "if he speaks funny then he must not be one of us..."
I speak english and spanish fully, but im doomed to make neologisms, because sometimes at a given moment i remember the english word and translate it to spanish incorrectly, or fucking up big time the postfixes of words. Also since ive lived in about 7 different USA cities and about 4 cities in Mexico that are all far apart, my accent/intonation is some weird hybrid.
SO FUCK YOU, AND STAY UNDER YOUR STUPID ROCK YOU UNTRAVELLED BIGOT.
Quote from: JohNyx on October 21, 2009, 07:05:37 PM
Group cohesion crap id say... "if he speaks funny then he must not be one of us..."
I speak english and spanish fully, but im doomed to make neologisms, because sometimes at a given moment i remember the english word and translate it to spanish incorrectly, or fucking up big time the postfixes of words. Also since ive lived in about 7 different USA cities and about 4 cities in Mexico that are all far apart, my accent/intonation is some weird hybrid.
SO FUCK YOU, AND STAY UNDER YOUR STUPID ROCK YOU UNTRAVELLED BIGOT.
Sounds like my husband's idiosyncracies. No one can even place his accent, as it's not iconically ESL from ANY language group. Very unclassifyable in a lot of ways. And so his default is either cussing or predantic vocabulary that sounds preachy and professorial.
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2009, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 21, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 21, 2009, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Halfbaked1 on October 21, 2009, 10:33:01 AM
True enough that vernacular does change. You know I actually agree with the fact that English in America changes every so often. Indeed English in general changes periodically (We don't speak Old English anymore afterall).
But I learned to speak English clearly, despite the fact that everyone around me spoke with a deep southern drawl. I wanted to speak clearly and read well in a city, county and state where my peers read on a 7th grade level when they graduated. I shall retain the right to gripe about the ones who chose the easy way, or rather did not even try, when all it took to do otherwise was to read and to listen.
There is plenty of room for dialect and for colloquialism, but those who indulge in such should be able to speak and read better than what you would expect from children reading See Dick Run, or acting as an extra in a Deliverance remake.
or kill me.
Hm...see, that can work both ways. To my mind, those who refuse to adapt to a different linguistic environment are lazy and uneducated. Lazy because they just want everyone to use words and pronounce them as they do themselves. And uneducated because they don't recognize the need for different speech communities to unify through linguistic vehicles.
It's all in your perspective.
It's kind of the ultimate Ugly American stereotype... not only expecting everyone else to speak their language, but expecting them to speak their DIALECT.
Yeah, but it's not specific to Americans, thankfully. Any person from any given culture, I've noticed, has a certain percentage of regional dialect prejudice. I think it's natural...you have to sort of overcome it, I think. Or have ignored those markers as positively significant when you were growing up.
This is true. I have a German friend who is from the Black Forest region and speaks Swabian German, which apparently is considered a total hicksville dialect in the rest of Germany. So people other than fellow Swabians look down on him as an uneducated hick in Germany despite the fact that the Swabian dialect is considered linguistically fascinating to German-language scholars in the US. The man is a highly esteemed biochemistry PhD with eight or nine published books, but still gets the Halfbaked1 treatment when he goes to other parts of Germany.
Fortunately, Swabians have a strong sense of cultural pride in their dialect, and are in no danger of caving to social pressure to change it.
God bless them Swabbies.
say yah to da UP, eh?
Quote from: rong on October 24, 2009, 06:01:41 AM
say yah to da UP, eh?
DIS.
Also, STANDARD IS A DIALECT. Srsly.
Quote from: Kai on October 24, 2009, 05:37:01 PM
Also, STANDARD IS A DIALECT. Srsly.
This...If we're being SRS.
holy wah!
Quote from: LMNO on October 21, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
But Khara, the south constantly sends the message that people from the south are dumb hicks...
fixed that for you.
not that I'm agreeing with halfbaked's dialectical prejudices, because I'm not. There are plenty of regional dialects of american english that don't make people sound like idiots. "Lowbrow southern" just doesn't happen to be one of them.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 04, 2009, 06:15:09 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 21, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
But Khara, the south constantly sends the message that people from the south are dumb hicks...
fixed that for you.
not that I'm agreeing with halfbaked's dialectical prejudices, because I'm not. There are plenty of regional dialects of american english that don't make people sound like idiots. "Lowbrow southern" just doesn't happen to be one of them.
I know what you are talking about.
And I will admit, it grates my nerves to hear some people talk, people that I grew up with, hell people in my family that have that completely annoying dialect. I don't however think they are stupid because of the way they talk. I tend to base my "you are a fucking idiot" decision on what people say, not how they say it. Does that make any sense at all?
oh, absolutely, and I try to do the same...but my reaction to "low southern" isn't an intellectual reaction, it's a visceral one.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 04, 2009, 06:55:03 PM
oh, absolutely, and I try to do the same...but my reaction to "low southern" isn't an intellectual reaction, it's a visceral one.
That plus do you hear the "Deliverance" music when they talk or is that just me?
no, it's more like listening to Charlie Brown's teacher talk only all I can hear is "SOOOOOOOOWEEEE!!!" over and over again with varying pitch and intonation.