http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-10-2009/beck---not-so-mellow-gold
Long story short, Beck has a bit of a conflict of interest. He heavily promotes buying gold on his show while being a paid spokesman for a gold retail company. I'm pretty sure that Rush does the exact same thing. Both of their radio shows are sponsored by gold companies. Looks like that both are heavily invested in gold and are using fear-mongering to drive the prices up.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on December 19, 2009, 05:44:22 PM
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-10-2009/beck---not-so-mellow-gold
Long story short, Beck has a bit of a conflict of interest. He heavily promotes buying gold on his show while being a paid spokesman for a gold retail company. I'm pretty sure that Rush does the exact same thing. Both of their radio shows are sponsored by gold companies. Looks like that both are heavily invested in gold and are using fear-mongering to drive the prices up.
This is not surprising.
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 06:12:23 PM
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
If things get that bad, gold won't be worth shit, either. Bullets and Cipro.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 06:30:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 06:12:23 PM
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
If things get that bad, gold won't be worth shit, either. Bullets and Cipro.
I assumed everyone here already has an arsenal of weapons and a closet brimming with ammo....
anti biotics is a good point, and something i need to work on.
also, gold will not be worthless, because the people with the foresight to stock up on everything they need for the long dark ahead won't be selling anything for the scraps that are traded now. and they wont be interested in bartering for anything except the perishables that couldn't have been stockpiled. so unless you're into gardening/farming, the only thing that you might have that they will want is money. and that means gold.
gold is money.
that's a damn near universal truth.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 08:42:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 06:30:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 06:12:23 PM
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
If things get that bad, gold won't be worth shit, either. Bullets and Cipro.
I assumed everyone here already has an arsenal of weapons and a closet brimming with ammo....
anti biotics is a good point, and something i need to work on.
also, gold will not be worthless, because the people with the foresight to stock up on everything they need for the long dark ahead won't be selling anything for the scraps that are traded now. and they wont be interested in bartering for anything except the perishables that couldn't have been stockpiled. so unless you're into gardening/farming, the only thing that you might have that they will want is money. and that means gold.
gold is money.
that's a damn near universal truth.
Can you eat gold?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 08:42:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 06:30:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 06:12:23 PM
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
If things get that bad, gold won't be worth shit, either. Bullets and Cipro.
I assumed everyone here already has an arsenal of weapons and a closet brimming with ammo....
anti biotics is a good point, and something i need to work on.
also, gold will not be worthless, because the people with the foresight to stock up on everything they need for the long dark ahead won't be selling anything for the scraps that are traded now. and they wont be interested in bartering for anything except the perishables that couldn't have been stockpiled. so unless you're into gardening/farming, the only thing that you might have that they will want is money. and that means gold.
gold is money.
that's a damn near universal truth.
Can you eat gold?
I've got food stored. I'll eat that.
What are you gonna trade for something to eat? cause all i want for is your gold....
you DO have some gold to trade with, right? otherwise, you s.o.l.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 08:42:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 19, 2009, 06:30:59 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 06:12:23 PM
I hate both of those morons, but it doesn't bother me a bit that they are boosting up gold if they believe in it, and of course it stands to reason that they would be invested in it, as well.
seems like the same argument that the climate change deniers use regarding Al Gore. they say "He stands to make a killing on the measures he proposes." No shit! if i firmly believed in something, i would be invested in it to!
also, for the record. i own gold, so this post is a conflict of interests.
also, for the record. you should own gold, to. the economy is just starting its epic fail. But and hold physical gold if you have savings...
If things get that bad, gold won't be worth shit, either. Bullets and Cipro.
I assumed everyone here already has an arsenal of weapons and a closet brimming with ammo....
anti biotics is a good point, and something i need to work on.
also, gold will not be worthless, because the people with the foresight to stock up on everything they need for the long dark ahead won't be selling anything for the scraps that are traded now. and they wont be interested in bartering for anything except the perishables that couldn't have been stockpiled. so unless you're into gardening/farming, the only thing that you might have that they will want is money. and that means gold.
gold is money.
that's a damn near universal truth.
Can you eat gold?
I've got food stored. I'll eat that.
What are you gonna trade for something to eat? cause all i want for is your gold....
you DO have some gold to trade with, right? otherwise, you s.o.l.
No, I have other methods.
GIMME YOUR SAMMICH!
\
(http://www.granitegrok.com/pix/road%20warrior.jpg)
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yeah, right....
i know what your method will be...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/115810/the-tonight-show-with-conan-obrien-gold-4-sexcom
also, ftr, i'm not a lone wolf type survivalist. those people are gonna get their sammich stolen. i'm in the process of forming a tribe. we'll be OK. i'm actually surprised at the resource/skill pool that we've already got so far.
Like John Robb says on his blog, "Tribe up!"
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yes. you are definitely right.
right after collapse, there wont be a whole lot of 'medium of exchange' type economy. it will be barter for the most part.
this was shown in various collapses. the one i can think of is argentina.
but according to the FerFal blog (a fellow that lives down there), it quickly became apparent that those that were the best off were those that had a trusted medium of exchange, that being gold. After an initial phase of get what you need by hook or by crook, then there will have to be some form of money.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
Partial collapse = medium of currency helpful
Total collapse = bikers shove the gold up your arse before looting you
No collapse/slow decline = clever criminals loot your gold and sell it all to those "gold to cash companies", and Glenn Beck's profit margin improves
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
If I had less delicate sensibilities, I would say sexual favors.
Quote from: Cain on December 19, 2009, 09:10:12 PM
Partial collapse = medium of currency helpful
Total collapse = bikers shove the gold up your arse before looting you
No collapse/slow decline = clever criminals loot your gold and sell it all to those "gold to cash companies", and Glenn Beck's profit margin improves
Yeah, that's what i hear. seems like an unwarrantedly dismissive proclaimation, imo.
-partial collapse, we've already had. our currencies hurt. recession/depression. the currency survives. sometimes the currency survives well enough that gold wouldn't have preserved any purchasing power any better than the currency. although i haven't heard of any past situations where it did significantly worse...
-total collapse, of course crime will increase. but unless you happen to flaunt your wealth in front of biker gangs, then you would be just as worried about getting various things placed in your ass when they loot you for your ordinary possessions.. so the argument has no bearing on owning gold specifically.
-no collapse/slow collapse, the gold does fine, because the clever criminals have already extracted the wealth from the price of gold, and now are on the upswing. If they attempted to manipulate the price down, or especially attempted to outright enforce gold price, then there would be a huge divergence on the comex and the paper price would crash to nothing, and the price of physical would bounce up with a huge overshoot before settling at significantly higher prices...
Read GATA information on the topic....
http://www.gata.org/
Cain, have you ever run across any good critiques of GATA's arguments?
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yes. you are definitely right.
right after collapse, there wont be a whole lot of 'medium of exchange' type economy. it will be barter for the most part.
this was shown in various collapses. the one i can think of is argentina.
but according to the FerFal blog (a fellow that lives down there), it quickly became apparent that those that were the best off were those that had a trusted medium of exchange, that being gold. After an initial phase of get what you need by hook or by crook, then there will have to be some form of money.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
Marijuana
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on December 19, 2009, 10:03:53 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yes. you are definitely right.
right after collapse, there wont be a whole lot of 'medium of exchange' type economy. it will be barter for the most part.
this was shown in various collapses. the one i can think of is argentina.
but according to the FerFal blog (a fellow that lives down there), it quickly became apparent that those that were the best off were those that had a trusted medium of exchange, that being gold. After an initial phase of get what you need by hook or by crook, then there will have to be some form of money.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
Marijuana
I've heard that argument, but i think there will quickly be a glut on the market if there is a sudden crash. everyone that wants some will be able to easily/cheaply obtain it or grow it themselves. also, I don't think it keeps well enough to be m0ney.
Weed is a bad option for trade goods, too easy to make your own, cigarettes and booze are the way to go.
Yeah.
if it became apparent that there was going to be a total collapse imminently, then i would use some cash or gold in order to get my hands on a bunch of cigarrettes, and convert a room to a humidor in order to keep them as long as possible...
i think they would be even more golden than the booze. people can make shitty booze in prison when they have to...
someone who smokes and drinks would be more inclined to want good smokes and shitty booze rather than good booze and nothing good to smoke...
Manufacture capabilities would probably hold their value the best. If you can fix the broken things, and make things that work if the gasoline runs out, and can maybe do it without petrol yourself, you win. A steam engine is the best in collapse- proofing you can do.
Quote from: yhnmzw on December 19, 2009, 11:14:38 PM
Manufacture capabilities would probably hold their value the best. If you can fix the broken things, and make things that work if the gasoline runs out, and can maybe do it without petrol yourself, you win. A steam engine is the best in collapse- proofing you can do.
what do you plan to accept for your services once your basic needs are met?
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 10:25:46 PM
Yeah.
if it became apparent that there was going to be a total collapse imminently, then i would use some cash or gold in order to get my hands on a bunch of cigarrettes, and convert a room to a humidor in order to keep them as long as possible...
i think they would be even more golden than the booze. people can make shitty booze in prison when they have to...
someone who smokes and drinks would be more inclined to want good smokes and shitty booze rather than good booze and nothing good to smoke...
I think sacks of tobacco might be easier to store, and would offer just as high quality of smokes once rolled.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on December 20, 2009, 12:24:01 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 10:25:46 PM
Yeah.
if it became apparent that there was going to be a total collapse imminently, then i would use some cash or gold in order to get my hands on a bunch of cigarrettes, and convert a room to a humidor in order to keep them as long as possible...
i think they would be even more golden than the booze. people can make shitty booze in prison when they have to...
someone who smokes and drinks would be more inclined to want good smokes and shitty booze rather than good booze and nothing good to smoke...
I think sacks of tobacco might be easier to store, and would offer just as high quality of smokes once rolled.
could be, but i'm not really interested in becoming a cigarrette peddler after we fall off the Olduvai cliff....
I just want to prey upon the lazy and nic'ing addicts...
guess what i'm going to require they pay me in. :D
Quote from: Iptuous on December 20, 2009, 03:21:16 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on December 20, 2009, 12:24:01 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 10:25:46 PM
Yeah.
if it became apparent that there was going to be a total collapse imminently, then i would use some cash or gold in order to get my hands on a bunch of cigarrettes, and convert a room to a humidor in order to keep them as long as possible...
i think they would be even more golden than the booze. people can make shitty booze in prison when they have to...
someone who smokes and drinks would be more inclined to want good smokes and shitty booze rather than good booze and nothing good to smoke...
I think sacks of tobacco might be easier to store, and would offer just as high quality of smokes once rolled.
could be, but i'm not really interested in becoming a cigarrette peddler after we fall off the Olduvai cliff....
I just want to prey upon the lazy and nic'ing addicts...
guess what i'm going to require they pay me in. :D
gold?
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on December 20, 2009, 03:37:56 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 20, 2009, 03:21:16 AM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on December 20, 2009, 12:24:01 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 10:25:46 PM
Yeah.
if it became apparent that there was going to be a total collapse imminently, then i would use some cash or gold in order to get my hands on a bunch of cigarrettes, and convert a room to a humidor in order to keep them as long as possible...
i think they would be even more golden than the booze. people can make shitty booze in prison when they have to...
someone who smokes and drinks would be more inclined to want good smokes and shitty booze rather than good booze and nothing good to smoke...
I think sacks of tobacco might be easier to store, and would offer just as high quality of smokes once rolled.
could be, but i'm not really interested in becoming a cigarrette peddler after we fall off the Olduvai cliff....
I just want to prey upon the lazy and nic'ing addicts...
guess what i'm going to require they pay me in. :D
gold?
GOOOOOOLDD!!!!
\
(http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/396capture_goldmember04.jpg)
(http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/images/goldbarrothschild100gramssamuelmontagu400.jpg)
maybe i will stock up on lead that has been painted gold, instead.
Quote from: rong on December 20, 2009, 05:34:03 AM
maybe i will stock up on lead that has been painted gold, instead.
Not a bad idea. Just stay away from any bathing Greek philosophers. ;)
Im ready... You can join my biker gang if you want. I even have extra motorcycles!!!
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/hangshai23/P1000532b.jpg)
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/hangshai23/P1000533b.jpg)
1979 Harley Sportster 1000(the gas tank is from an '06) and a Mossberg 500. Armageddon, here I come!!!
currently in possession of 4 motorcycles, semi-automatic 12-gauge shotgun, a 30.06, a 50 cal muzzle loader, and the Gamo "Varmint Hunter" pellet gun outfitted with a lazer sight and flash light on the scope.
hangshai, where are you located (roughly)?
i feel inclined to direct your attention here: motorcycle geek out thread (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=22967.0)
The big problem with gold as barter is that its not something a lot of people would have. You can demand gold. But since 99% of the population has some jewelry (at best) you probably aren't going to get much, forcing something more commonly available as trade.
A friend of mine was saying that it's a good idea to convert a few hundred dollars into gemstones/jewelry that would be hard to steal casually when worn on your person, at least when traveling abroad just incase something terrible happens you can hock the gems to get some money that you'll need to get back. That said, if currency was even something that came into play after a complete collapse, would you accept those sorts of things in lieu of gold?
Personally, if the entire structures falls out underneath I can't see gold really being worth holding on to, especially if you have to travel. Doubly so on foot, that shit gets heavy.
Quote from: rong on December 20, 2009, 05:34:03 AM
maybe i will stock up on lead that has been painted gold, instead.
It would have to be tungsten. lead is better for faking silver.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 20, 2009, 09:08:51 AM
The big problem with gold as barter is that its not something a lot of people would have. You can demand gold. But since 99% of the population has some jewelry (at best) you probably aren't going to get much, forcing something more commonly available as trade.
I will be happy to accept the jewelry. I have the tools necessary for detecting its purity for all but the more sophisticated attempts at fakery which wouldn't concern me. If somebody has everything they need, and others want some of it, then there isn't anything forcing what the medium will be. The people that don't have their shit together will undoubtedly start some system of trade amongst themselves with washers or bottlecaps like some homeless communities do today... they're welcome to it.
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on December 20, 2009, 09:25:33 AM
A friend of mine was saying that it's a good idea to convert a few hundred dollars into gemstones/jewelry that would be hard to steal casually when worn on your person, at least when traveling abroad just incase something terrible happens you can hock the gems to get some money that you'll need to get back. That said, if currency was even something that came into play after a complete collapse, would you accept those sorts of things in lieu of gold?
Personally, if the entire structures falls out underneath I can't see gold really being worth holding on to, especially if you have to travel. Doubly so on foot, that shit gets heavy.
Gemstones are easier to fake and harder to detect. they are not fungible. they are not divisible. i don't mess with them.
as far as gold being too heavy for travel, i would say that could apply to silver, but gold?
its $1112 an
ounce (troy)! and that's before shtf....
i don't think any other commodity will have the same value density.
How much will it actually be worth post collapse though?
YOU NEED TO INVEST IN CATS TO KEEP THE INTERWEBS RUNNING SMOOTH. (http://www.catsforgold.com/)
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 20, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
How much will it actually be worth post collapse though?
I'll give you a 5lb bag of rice for your mother's wedding ring.
:evil:
seriously....
nobody knows. People that claim otherwise are full of shit or selling something. things are 'worth' whatever you can get for them. saying that something is worth a certain amount of something else reliably only works when there is a functioning market. otherwise it's moment to moment, and person to person. It wouldn't take long for local market prices to set up, i would think. who knows how long it would take to create a national price average on various items? probably depends on exactly how things deteriorate....
I intend to be working for one of the huge pharmaceutical companies who's factories will just become a compound in the event of collapse, that will just gas any looters and will exchange goods for service in the glorious Pfizer army.
You haul sixteen tons, whadaya get?....
:)
You know, this one thread completely replaces GIM, only without the screeching racist fucks.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 10:43:57 PM
You know, this one thread completely replaces GIM, only without the screeching racist fucks.
We need Aini back.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 10:43:57 PM
You know, this one thread completely replaces GIM, only without the screeching racist fucks.
also, i get a little bit to challenge my beliefs about gold.
on GIM, unless you tow the line, you're labeled a 'shill'...
Quote from: Requia ☣ on December 20, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
How much will it actually be worth post collapse though?
This was one of the lessons I remember almost from the business class I took.
If you can convince your market that what you are selling is worth what it's for, if you can convince them that they REALLY need it, you can get just about any price for any goddamn thing you have.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 01:41:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 10:43:57 PM
You know, this one thread completely replaces GIM, only without the screeching racist fucks.
also, i get a little bit to challenge my beliefs about gold.
on GIM, unless you tow the line, you're labeled a 'shill'...
And a "Jew".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2009, 03:26:36 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 21, 2009, 01:41:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2009, 10:43:57 PM
You know, this one thread completely replaces GIM, only without the screeching racist fucks.
also, i get a little bit to challenge my beliefs about gold.
on GIM, unless you tow the line, you're labeled a 'shill'...
And a "Jew".
No, it's pretty much assumed that there are no Jews on that board (although i know personally that there are some that just keep it to themselves so as not to feed the skinheads).
You are in danger of being said by some to support the Zionist powers if you stray from their groupthink....
I want to buy gold, if only for the reason to have something that is tangible (=not paper)money. I guess the premise behind gold retaining its value barring ANY sort of collapse is the fact that it IS a limited supply(the amount of gold on the Earth when it was formed is as much as we've got, period), and it's universally recognized as being valuable throughout history. I mean, even Native American tribes saw value in gold before the 'civilized' Europeans showed up, right? I also agree that weed would fall under the same category. It isn't really THAT hard to grow. If you were to post up in the mountains every summer, you could have a nice sized crop that would probably last you all year for barter and you would have some left to keep for yourself to use. Without the technology to refine harder drugs, or even stills to make alcohol, stuff like beer, wine, and weed will probably be more in demand. I mean shit, I would definitely be able to deal with Armageddon better if I had some weed. I think. Although, I doubt we are seriously headed for any type of collapse. I dont know MUCH about this, but I know that people that invest in foreign capital(it has something to do with exchange rates, I know that much) like to use the dollar because of its low interest rate. They can borrow dollars, invest in foreign currency and make a killing. Same thing the Yen was used for in the 90s. Also, even though things are shit right now, I still think its just a self-correction for 8 years of no regulations. As soon as all the chaff gets sifted away, all that will be left will be a solid viable economy, HOPEFULLY. Probably a lot smaller than it has been in recent years, but at least it will be more based on actual commodities and work, instead of bullshit bubbles like the 'housing market'. I've heard the speculation used a lot too, but to me it just sounds like people placing bets on whether a stock goes up or not, and there is no money being made on actual goods or work produced. As soon as that part of the economy gets cut out, and we return to a goods/work based economy(if ever) the better of we will all be. Well, kind of. The fact hat we dont really produce anything domestically is kind of another issue.
Hangshai,
some considerations:
-there is a limited supply of gold, but one must consider that there is above ground and below ground gold. there is a given cost at any time for extraction, a global rate of extraction, and rate of consumption (which if you consider jewelry to not be 'consumed' rather than 'stored' is pretty low, unlike, say, silver) My point is, it's too simplistic to merely think that there is a pool of gold that people trade, and that's it...
-universally recognized as valuable? Not entirely, but close enough for me! Since this is a common point that people give in support of gold, many naysayers will have a pocket full of examples in which it isn't the case. That's not really good as a statistical argument, as they are in the minority by a wide margin, but popping the bubble of 'universal' can be deflating to some new gold bugs.
-manufacturing... Despite a lot of rhetoric, the US is still the global leader in manufacturing as of 2008 data. If china keeps up, they will pass us soon, but who knows what will happen in the near future. Whatever the case, many people talk as if the US is not a player in world manufacturing and that's horsefeathers. Guess what one of our number one products is that we manufacture? Industrial supplies and manufacturing equipment... just a point to consider.
i read on wikipedia that all the gold in the world today would be a cube of 20 meters cubed.
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 21, 2009, 05:08:59 PM
i read on wikipedia that all the gold in the world today would be a cube of 20 meters cubed.
that's what i read in the recent national geographic magazine article on the subject. (161,000 tons currently)
it seems to agree with the information from other sources previously read regarding current estimates and rates of production...
interestingly, gold production rates have been in decline since 2000 despite the rising price of gold.
production costs have gone up, too. i understand that it averages about $400/ozt now.
From the World Gold Council FAQ:
QuoteHow big is a tonne of gold?
Gold is traditionally weighed in Troy Ounces (31.1035 grammes). With the density of gold at 19.32 g/cm3, a troy ounce of gold would have a volume of 1.61 cm3. A metric tonne (equals 1,000kg = 32,150.72 troy ounces) of gold would therefore have a volume of 51,762 cm3 (i.e. 1.61 x 32,150.72), which would be equivalent to a cube of side 37.27cm (Approx. 1' 3'').
I didn't know that about the manufacturing, that's actually sort of comforting. Well, I haven't been off of the left coast for a while, but the nearest GM factory in the Bay area (Vallejo maybe, or Hayward, not sure) is closing or just did close down, but I guess that's not the end of the world. I was just sort of lamenting the fact that we dont have AS many manufacturing jobs. I mean, are there ANY American companies that make TVs anymore? Our first TV when I was a kid was one of those HUGE wooden Zeniths. I dunno, maybe I need to stop reading so much news, its making it sound like we're already in some kind of post-apocalypse.
We have lots of manufacturing here, but very few manufacturing jobs. Most of what you see in the US is automated, the handful of workers are there for maintenance. The stuff that can't be automated (or it isn't economical) is what went to China.
yeah, forgot about the robots.
So I was talking to a friend of mine, she's back home visiting for the holidays. She happened to mention to me how Republicans want people to buy gold 'so everyone will have it and it will bring down the value, meanwhile, making all the Republicans rich cause they're the ones selling the gold(I figured she was referring to guys like Glenn Beck)'. She's a musician, and she wants to teach piano, so shes working on her Masters in Piano pedagogy. Oh, and she used to be in a Rock and Roll band... Well, put all that together and you get a bleedin' heart, I guess. I won't mention who pays for her school, but thats another matter all together. Anyway, I started telling her about how if you actually WATCH gold, it goes up and down, but there is a pattern Ive noticed in the past 5 or so years. It has these small ups and downs, and every once and a while, it goes WAAY up and then stays there for a while, bounces up and down, and then goes WAAAY up again. Its been doing this since the '90s when it was about 300 an oz. Anyway, Im probably stating the obvious here, since I spotted it pretty quickly and it just seems to make sense that if you catch it on a down swing, you're 'golden', as the saying goes. Well, earlier this year when India bought all that gold they bought, which is pretty normal for them but when you put it together with all the other crap going on and doomsayer repub pubdits, well, you get a run on gold. I Know it got into the 1200s. Anyway, my point is, today its at 1086 and dropping like a rock. If it hits 1000, buy like a fucking bandit, cause in 6 months you will make a killing. Thats what I meant. I mean, seriously, the world isnt REALLY gonna end, and if it does, who fucking cares.
Remember Norton I thought his rice was a valuable commodity :lulz:
Quote from: Hangshai on December 21, 2009, 05:20:03 AM
I want to buy gold, if only for the reason to have something that is tangible
anything rare is useful for this. currently gold is under hyperinflation
your better off buying rare coins and waiting for the price to return to normal. (my guess is about 6-7 hundred)
gold is heavy and not easily hidden (METAL)
and if there is another economic crash that leaves the government intact
expect them to take your gold like they did back when the market crashed about what a hundred years ago
we are a few years ahead... so its not quite a hundred but still
and it peaked in 1980 at 2296.28 if you adjust for inflation
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 11:05:27 AM
Quote from: Hangshai on December 21, 2009, 05:20:03 AM
I want to buy gold, if only for the reason to have something that is tangible
anything rare is useful for this. currently gold is under hyperinflation
your better off buying rare coins and waiting for the price to return to normal. (my guess is about 6-7 hundred)
although it's not stated, it should be implicit that liquidability is also desired in an asset that is a store of wealth. so 'anything rare' isn't quite as good as gold. (i'm not sure what you mean about gold being under hyperinflation...)
as far as buying rare coins, you're probably right. assuming that one is a numismatist. otherwise your just setting yourself up.
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 11:05:27 AM
gold is heavy and not easily hidden (METAL)
wha? the wealth density of Au well outpaces the mass density. it's pretty easy to hide, and doesn't take much room for a ridiculous amount of tangible value.
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 11:05:27 AM
and if there is another economic crash that leaves the government intact
expect them to take your gold like they did back when the market crashed about what a hundred years ago
we are a few years ahead... so its not quite a hundred but still
they passed a law, and some people turned in their gold, but it is my understanding that there was not any gold forcibly removed (except some people that kept it in a 'safety' deposit box), nor was there a single arrest/conviction under the law.
what will liquidability look like after the crash?
isnt that why they are stockpiling the stuff? cause cash might mold under their shitty mattress
and not sure if the law was used, but if they had an issue with someone
im betting they used "gold" as an excuse to get in the front door.
When they took gold away, they also payed 50-something percent more than the previous market value, the people who had been hoarding gold made a bundle.
I would suggest silver in the current market though, less hype, no bubble, and a spool of silver wire isn't the most noticeable thing in the world.
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 09:56:03 PM
what will liquidability look like after the crash?
isnt that why they are stockpiling the stuff? cause cash might mold under their shitty mattress
Based on historical examples, it will be very liquidable.
C.f. Weimar Germany, Argentina, Zimbabwe, etc.
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 09:56:03 PM
and not sure if the law was used, but if they had an issue with someone
im betting they used "gold" as an excuse to get in the front door.
It is my understanding that they never used it at all, successfully.
but that was a different time....
if the govt. was trying to raise cash by stealing from the public nowadays, they wouldn't confiscate gold anyways.
i'm guessing they would take your 401k...
Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 21, 2010, 11:08:06 PM
I would suggest silver in the current market though, less hype, no bubble, and a spool of silver wire isn't the most noticeable thing in the world.
I like silver. but it's certainly not as value dense with the current gold to silver ratio being 67...
do you actually buy silver wire as means of wealth storage?
doesn't that have a ridiculous premium over current spot price?
and how do you intend to exit when you need to? sell to refinery? after paying such a premium?
This is hyperinflation.
(http://secondfloorscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/monthly_dollar.gif)
For roughly the past 10 years, the value of gold has been increasing exponentially. Exponential growth is not sustainable growth, this is the same thing seen with the housing bubble (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2974/housingbellwetherisbv9.jpg) and the tech bubble (http://www.informedtrades.com/images/charts/sp500-longtermchart.jpg) before each of them burst. Hell, just look at what happened around 1980, same mathematical growth pattern, it plummeted in value after all that growth. The value of gold is going to crash and it is going to crash hard.
it's not quite as simple as that sounds, though.
for instance, the gold price in 1980 was dragged up by the Hunt brothers when they cornered the silver market, no? how high would it have got without that?
further, there is a significant body of evidence showing how central banks have been actively suppressing the price of gold for some decades now. this recent runup could then be seen as their grip on this market slipping....
ETA: i'm not saying that this growth is sustainable by any means. i'm just saying that the chart would indicate a significantly lower 'fair price' than we have now, and imply that there is a crash coming soon. i think that the blow off top will be significantly higher, and that the bull still has some good legs on it....
Quote from: Iptuous on May 22, 2010, 05:43:22 PM
it's not quite as simple as that sounds, though.
for instance, the gold price in 1980 was dragged up by the Hunt brothers when they cornered the silver market, no? how high would it have got without that?
further, there is a significant body of evidence showing how central banks have been actively suppressing the price of gold for some decades now. this recent runup could then be seen as their grip on this market slipping....
Linkage to evidence?
It doesn't matter anyway, exponential growth can't be maintained (which is why I gave the tech bubble and housing bubbles as examples with the same growth pattern). To compare economics to another field, one that I have more education in, this isn't really different than population growth. It's just another example of a situation where rapid growth leads to complete collapse. It doesn't matter what the exact reason is, as the growth gets steeper and steeper the trigger for the collapse gets more and more fragile, and when it does stop, it crashes hard. Every. Single. Time.
This is not the time to invest in gold, the time to invest in gold was the mid to late 90s, this is the time to sell it.
Vene,
i ETA'd my post. i agree with you to a limited extend. the 90's was the hot time to jump in. but i don't think now is time to sell.
people were saying that same thing last year.
and the year before that.
and the year before that.
professor Freeky,
start out with www.gata.org
As long as you can see it's not sustainable growth.
And I will admit that this might not be the time to sell for maximum profit margins, but the risk of holding onto it is getting greater and greater.
there's no sustainable growth. that's for sure.
also i should mention that i don't 'invest' in gold per se, anyways.
i just buy it. (and silver)
i first started because i just like having a wooden treasure chest with honest to god gold and silver coins in it. (however small it might be.... how many people have a real treasure chest?)
as i learned more about it, i came to realize that it's a pretty good insurance policy to have for event of loss of faith in our faith based currency....
and it seems that it can be a good speculative investment, too, but the only speculative actions i take are playing the ratio. it seems safer to me.
How is the value of gold anything but faith based? Sure, ultimately our money is just paper, but at the same time, gold is ultimately a heavy, soft metal that has very few applications. I'd rather have steel, steel can be used to build things. And if all else fails, a steel rod isn't a bad weapon. Unlike gold, it's light enough to swing easily and, also unlike gold, it doesn't get bent all to hell when it connects with somebody's skull.
But, like gold, steel is a relatively scarce resource, if only because you will never find it in nature. I think it's more likely that if people lose faith in money we'll revert to a barter economy rather than a monetary economy.
Quote from: Vene on May 22, 2010, 06:32:33 PM
How is the value of gold anything but faith based? Sure, ultimately our money is just paper, but at the same time, gold is ultimately a heavy, soft metal that has very few applications. I'd rather have steel, steel can be used to build things. And if all else fails, a steel rod isn't a bad weapon. Unlike gold, it's light enough to swing easily and, also unlike gold, it doesn't get bent all to hell when it connects with somebody's skull.
But, like gold, steel is a relatively scarce resource, if only because you will never find it in nature. I think it's more likely that if people lose faith in money we'll revert to a barter economy rather than a monetary economy.
Very few applications? Gold is the best conducting metal out there and is used massively in electronics. It's like copper on speed.
Quote from: Kai on May 22, 2010, 07:20:28 PM
Quote from: Vene on May 22, 2010, 06:32:33 PM
How is the value of gold anything but faith based? Sure, ultimately our money is just paper, but at the same time, gold is ultimately a heavy, soft metal that has very few applications. I'd rather have steel, steel can be used to build things. And if all else fails, a steel rod isn't a bad weapon. Unlike gold, it's light enough to swing easily and, also unlike gold, it doesn't get bent all to hell when it connects with somebody's skull.
But, like gold, steel is a relatively scarce resource, if only because you will never find it in nature. I think it's more likely that if people lose faith in money we'll revert to a barter economy rather than a monetary economy.
Very few applications? Gold is the best conducting metal out there and is used massively in electronics. It's like copper on speed.
Yes, I am aware that gold is a good conductor, but that doesn't justify the value that people put on it. That's a grand total of one application. I'll even give another, it's useful for the visors in the helmets of astronauts. Now we're at two.
My point isn't that gold is completely useless, it's that compared to other materials, it isn't used as often. I think that materials like steel, plastics, ceramics, and such have more practical value (and more value in a situation where people lose faith in money).
actually silver is a better conductor, but gold is still really good and wont oxidize like silver will.
at any rate,
Vene,
you're right. as a medium of exchange, it is faith based.
but i would say that it has quite a few things going for it, and that's why it has withstood the test of time.
It is divisible, fungible, durable, seen as a luxury, rare... these are all things going in its favor.
but simply its longstanding reputation as a store of wealth is good enough for me to rely on as insurance against disaster. hell, a two year old that's seen a looney tunes knows that a gold brick = fabulous wealth. i dont think thats going to change. maybe, but i doubt it.
regarding the barter/monetary thing, i think that a lot of the nuts that think they will be using gold to buy their bread when the zombie apocalypse comes are missing the point.....
barter would be rock bottom in an economic shitstorm, but people will quickly tire of that and some kind of monetary system will emerge. the gold is properly used as a means of preserving wealth through this monetary discontinuity, without having to put it in some form of useful material good that might be difficult to store, or has a shelf life, or might lose its usefulness, or whatever...
I will grant that if our current system of money fails and if a new one takes its place, metals like gold will retain value.
Plus, i have a treasure chest!
:D
Quote from: Iptuous on May 22, 2010, 07:43:09 PM
Plus, i have a treasure chest!
:D
And I don't care what your politics are, it's a god damn treasure chest.
Quote from: Iptuous on May 22, 2010, 07:34:56 PM
actually silver is a better conductor, but gold is still really good and wont oxidize like silver will.
Silver is better at room temp, gold is what you want for parts that are going to heat up, since it has a very low change in resistance from temperature.
Quote from: Iptuous on May 22, 2010, 07:43:09 PM
Plus, i have a treasure chest!
:D
Ok I think you win there.
Quote from: Vene on May 22, 2010, 05:56:49 PM
It doesn't matter anyway, exponential growth can't be maintained (which is why I gave the tech bubble and housing bubbles as examples with the same growth pattern). To compare economics to another field, one that I have more education in, this isn't really different than population growth. It's just another example of a situation where rapid growth leads to complete collapse. It doesn't matter what the exact reason is, as the growth gets steeper and steeper the trigger for the collapse gets more and more fragile, and when it does stop, it crashes hard. Every. Single. Time.
This is not the time to invest in gold, the time to invest in gold was the mid to late 90s, this is the time to sell it.
But.. but... G. Gordon Liddy and Glenn Beck told me that gold is a solid investment. If you can't trust guys like that then who can you trust???
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on May 22, 2010, 08:19:44 PM
If you can't trust guys like that then who can you trust???
The Cash Man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQVVHyvOZU
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/816/goldtv.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/goldtv.jpg/)
Rep. Weiner is coming out swinging against Glenn Beck and Goldline:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/-weiner-takes-on-becks-goldline-ties.php
QuoteBut nevertheless the fray began when Weiner rolled out a report this week that questions Goldline's legitimacy. Weiner alleged that the company "uses aggressive sales tactics, conservative spokespeople and rhetoric to sell over-priced gold coins to unsuspecting consumers." Weiner pilloried the "unholy alliance between Goldline and conservative pundits" -- who he calls "paid endorsers" -- and is proposing legislation that would force Goldline to reveal details of their business practices.
Quote from: Iptuous on May 21, 2010, 01:46:13 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 21, 2010, 11:05:27 AM
gold is heavy and not easily hidden (METAL)
wha? the wealth density of Au well outpaces the mass density. it's pretty easy to hide, and doesn't take much room for a ridiculous amount of tangible value.
hey I wondered about this, WTSHTF, you got some of your savings in gold bricks, each of which is easily worth 200 euros. how do you "pay" with that? cut off some bits? or do you rather invest in gold jewelry which is smaller units and potentially can be taken apart?
i went to the Goldline site, and wasn't able to find prices....
do you have any idea how much they are gouging people for?
some of these operations you can occasionally get pretty good deals from in the loss leaders, as long as you can withstand the Jedi mindtrick hard sell....
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 25, 2010, 06:23:10 PM
hey I wondered about this, WTSHTF, you got some of your savings in gold bricks, each of which is easily worth 200 euros. how do you "pay" with that? cut off some bits? or do you rather invest in gold jewelry which is smaller units and potentially can be taken apart?
if, by brick, you mean a coin the size of a nickle, then i wouldn't recommend cutting it, because you're going to lose the premium afforded by a gov minted coin of known dimensions and stamped with purity, etc.
as i mentioned before, the better use of this type of gold is to carry through until a decent monetary system pops back up again. until then, you can barter, or use something of lesser value.
Silver coinage is popular among survivalists for this purpose. (our coins before 1965 were made of 95% silver and they are now bought sold in bulk)
another alternative, as described by a fellow that goes by FerFal from Argentina when TSHTF there, is to do small scale transactions using the 10k and 14k jewelery. that became popular in the markets, he said. he recommends purchasing some from a pawn shop to use in that event. the added benefit of that, he says is that, in desperate times, you aren't going somewhere flashing a sackful of some valuable commodity, but instead you can offer up a gold ring that you claim is your mother's wedding ring, thereby looking more desperate than the other sadsacks....
well, a while ago I looked at things to invest some of my money in, and the smallest gold brick in the bank's catalog (or wherever I saw it) was about 200 euros.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 25, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
well, a while ago I looked at things to invest some of my money in, and the smallest gold brick in the bank's catalog (or wherever I saw it) was about 200 euros.
that was probably a 5 gram bar.
they can call it a 'brick' if they want, but it's the size of your pinkie nail...
:)
only 5 gram????
for 200 euros????
whoa
I guess I didnt check the scale on that pic then.
yeah, the smaller the amount, the higher the premium over current spot.
and the dies they stamp them with are really nice, so a good macro shot of it can make them look huge going by the detail... calling it a 'brick' doesn't help.
gold is expensive.
Tripzip,
just for reference, this is currently $1200 worth of gold. it sells for about 1250 right now.
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u337/mtdozier/Picture11.jpg)
crazy, huh?
Quote from: Iptuous on May 26, 2010, 04:05:41 AM
Tripzip,
just for reference, this is currently $1200 worth of gold. it sells for about 1250 right now.
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u337/mtdozier/Picture11.jpg)
crazy, huh?
Whoa.
crazy.
a roman coin with a double digit AD date goes for about that, IN ONE COIN
Quote from: Pēleus on May 26, 2010, 10:31:36 AM
a roman coin with a double digit AD date goes for about that, IN ONE COIN
yeah, but that's numismatics...
(although it
is made out of, what, electrum or silver? that doesn't account for much)
this is just the metal. so if you buy a brand new 1 tOz coin, then it's 1200 + premium right now.
I would like to get into the ancient coins though.
you can get common ones cheap out of a bucket. that blew me away when i went into the coin shop for the first time. i figured any thing that was identifiable as being a couple thousand years old would be worth some real money, but you can pick them up for a couple bucks....
You know, this makes me think of all the bonds my grandparents bought me when I was a kid. Which my mom lost.
Sigh.
Gold was about $300/oz then. It WOULD have been a good investment. Now, my money's on salt and liquor.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 26, 2010, 06:33:29 PM
You know, this makes me think of all the bonds my grandparents bought me when I was a kid. Which my mom lost.
Sigh.
Gold was about $300/oz then. It WOULD have been a good investment. Now, my money's on salt and liquor.
that sucks about the bonds. :cry:
there were ppl that told me i missed the boat when i first bought in at $700 a few years ago, too.
i didn't care then, because i wasn't buying as an investment, but now that its bouncing around at the level it is, i feel a little vindicated anyways...
we're still not anywhere near the all time highs, adjusted for inflation, too.
also, salt? liquor i can see how it would be a hot commodity quickly upon shitfan. what's your salt story?
You need salt and potassium for normal neurological function.
QuoteSymptoms of moderate hyponatremia [salt deficiency] include tiredness, disorientation, headache, muscle cramps, and nausea. Severe hyponatremia can lead to seizures and coma.
My guess is that in the event of a shit-and-fan-conjunction, salt will be used for food preservation, and therefore useful for not starving to death.
is it something that will quickly come to short supply?
i have a pretty good feeling that we will have some sort of shitfan scenario in my lifetime, but i doubt a long lasting madmax scenario. the only things that i prep for are things that will evaporate quickly...
Salt is pretty easy to get if you live on the coast. Otherwise I can definitely see it becoming a short supply item pretty quickly.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on May 26, 2010, 10:09:31 PM
Salt is pretty easy to get if you live on the coast. Otherwise I can definitely see it becoming a short supply item pretty quickly.
Or in salt lake!
Of course, given the choice between starving to death and eating something that used to be in the lake, I'm not sure which I'd actually pick.
Quote from: Iptuous on May 26, 2010, 02:12:22 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 26, 2010, 10:31:36 AM
a roman coin with a double digit AD date goes for about that, IN ONE COIN
I would like to get into the ancient coins though.
some of them are worth a bit in historical value, roman emperors, seen at the local coin shop
also saw this
(http://www.romancoins.info/Athina449BC.jpg)
:lulz:
QuoteWhile doctors may disagree with her about whether gold can be irritating, it has become a go-to ingredient in skin care products. It has been flaked, liquefied and otherwise suffused in moisturizers and sunscreens, eye creams and lip balms. Spas advertise 24-karat gold facials, a splurge typically costing north of $100. Fancy brands like La Prairie and Guerlain sell golden wares at high-end stores like Nordstrom.
link (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/fashion/27skinWEB.html)
Yup.
Colloidal/monatomic gold is better absorbed by the body, tho. And we've known this for _centuries_. Hell, some think that the Ark of the Covenant is a huge eletroplating batttery used to make monatomic gold.
http://www.asc-alchemy.com/mono.html
http://www.crucible.org/gold_colloids.htm
WHY?
Gold isn't reactive (short of bathing it in aqua regalia). That's the whole reason they use it for electronics. What possible use could this be?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 27, 2010, 07:09:32 PM
WHY?
Gold isn't reactive (short of bathing it in aqua regalia). That's the whole reason they use it for electronics. What possible use could this be?
Shiny stuff gooood.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on May 27, 2010, 07:09:32 PM
WHY?
Gold isn't reactive (short of bathing it in aqua regalia). That's the whole reason they use it for electronics. What possible use could this be?
They do it with pearls, too. I don't get it. What possible use is rubbing calcium on my face?
It's because people are dumb and will buy anything if someone sells it good enough.
It's basically sympathetic magic.
I was being funny, but I wasn't really kidding. We're like magpies, we love shiny things. It's the real reason lustrous metals and gems are considered some of the hallmarks of wealth.
We ascribe magical properties to them, too. Crystal power?
Yeah, my soul just naturally resonates with things that are worth a lot of money. :lulz:
Quote from: Sigmatic on June 05, 2010, 04:24:30 AM
I was being funny, but I wasn't really kidding. We're like magpies, we love shiny things. It's the real reason lustrous metals and gems are considered some of the hallmarks of wealth.
We ascribe magical properties to them, too. Crystal power?
Yeah, my soul just naturally resonates with things that are worth a lot of money. :lulz:
There is at least some grain of truth to crystal magic though. If you shine light through the right sort of crystal it is transformed into a searing beam of death that can cut through stuff and light things on fire.
That's almost AD&D throwing fireballs level of magic.
I've heard of this, but the person talking about it wasn't very coherent.
Quote from: Sigmatic on June 07, 2010, 12:01:57 AM
I've heard of this, but the person talking about it wasn't very coherent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_yhi_fy-Q0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_yhi_fy-Q0)
1:12 in particular.
Still though, people don't sleep with lasers under their pillows in hopes of getting some sort of spiritual payoff.
Maybe they should, at that.
I love fresnel lenses, and want many.
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yes. you are definitely right.
right after collapse, there wont be a whole lot of 'medium of exchange' type economy. it will be barter for the most part.
this was shown in various collapses. the one i can think of is argentina.
but according to the FerFal blog (a fellow that lives down there), it quickly became apparent that those that were the best off were those that had a trusted medium of exchange, that being gold. After an initial phase of get what you need by hook or by crook, then there will have to be some form of money.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
In the Soviet Union, alcohol, scrap iron, hot water and denim jeans were the most traded commodities. At least three of those would seem to apply to the USA as well (Rolex watches or something may replace jeans - whatever is considered a high status clothing item which is easily portable right now would be the most likely contender).
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2010, 02:46:52 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on December 19, 2009, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 19, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
You know, in the event of an infrastructure collapse, commodities like food, clothing, and tools would probably be more useful, and therefore more valued, than sparkly metal.
Yes. you are definitely right.
right after collapse, there wont be a whole lot of 'medium of exchange' type economy. it will be barter for the most part.
this was shown in various collapses. the one i can think of is argentina.
but according to the FerFal blog (a fellow that lives down there), it quickly became apparent that those that were the best off were those that had a trusted medium of exchange, that being gold. After an initial phase of get what you need by hook or by crook, then there will have to be some form of money.
what would you be willing to accept, that you are pretty sure everyone else would accept?
In the Soviet Union, alcohol, scrap iron, hot water and denim jeans were the most traded commodities. At least three of those would seem to apply to the USA as well (Rolex watches or something may replace jeans - whatever is considered a high status clothing item which is easily portable right now would be the most likely contender).
You might have trouble storing hot water. Scrap Iron is heavy. Alcohol though, that's easily portable and keeps forever.