http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html
The NYTimes argues that plants try to avoid being eaten just as much as animals do.
QuoteBut before we cede the entire moral penthouse to "committed vegetarians" and "strong ethical vegans," we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants — their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar — the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze.
"Plants are not static or silly," said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. "They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk" through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. "These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals," Dr. Hilker said.
I've seen *giggle* fruitarians argue this, or rather, that fruit is the only thing that seeks consumption by animals for seed propagation.
Quote from: LMNO on December 24, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html
The NYTimes argues that plants try to avoid being eaten just as much as animals do.
QuoteBut before we cede the entire moral penthouse to "committed vegetarians" and "strong ethical vegans," we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants — their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar — the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze.
"Plants are not static or silly," said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. "They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk" through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. "These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals," Dr. Hilker said.
Well It's about time something was documented on it.
The only reason not to eat meat are health related.
*could not live w/out eating meats, fruits, plants, nuts, berries, and all the other crap I put in my mouth*
Remind me again why it's unhealthy for omnivores to eat meat?
It isn't.
However, it is unhealthy for obese omnivores to eat fucking 12oz steaks every day.
Good point.
I was unfortunate enough to have a late breakfast in a well known burger chain. This point was vividly impressed on me by what I saw inside.
Never again :argh!:
if you are one of those unfortunate dweebs who thinks that making dietary choices based on abstract moral principles somehow makes you morally superior to the guy over there who doesn't even CARE about the carbon footprint of his double bacon cheeseburger, the only real morally superior choice is to eat a diet based solely on foraging for carrion and deadfall.
I'm switching to only eating sentient beings that only eat vegetarians, I'm trying to get to the true top of the earthly food chain....There can be only one!
2/3rds of plants deserve it.
Also 3/3rds of Vegans...
Quote from: LMNO on December 24, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html
The NYTimes argues that plants try to avoid being eaten just as much as animals do.
QuoteBut before we cede the entire moral penthouse to "committed vegetarians" and "strong ethical vegans," we might consider that plants no more aspire to being stir-fried in a wok than a hog aspires to being peppercorn-studded in my Christmas clay pot. This is not meant as a trite argument or a chuckled aside. Plants are lively and seek to keep it that way. The more that scientists learn about the complexity of plants — their keen sensitivity to the environment, the speed with which they react to changes in the environment, and the extraordinary number of tricks that plants will rally to fight off attackers and solicit help from afar — the more impressed researchers become, and the less easily we can dismiss plants as so much fiberfill backdrop, passive sunlight collectors on which deer, antelope and vegans can conveniently graze.
"Plants are not static or silly," said Monika Hilker of the Institute of Biology at the Free University of Berlin. "They respond to tactile cues, they recognize different wavelengths of light, they listen to chemical signals, they can even talk" through chemical signals. Touch, sight, hearing, speech. "These are sensory modalities and abilities we normally think of as only being in animals," Dr. Hilker said.
I've been saying this for years.
And it IS about moral superiority ECH. I eat all the organisms, because it would be evil and rude to choose one over the other based on something as minor as "sentience". Plants are just as alive as the next thing.
Plus, the lineage
Homo sapiens is evolutionarily omnivorous, and opportunistic. Merely checking the garbage piles of humans from 10,000+ years ago shows that.
I feel DAMN SUPERIOR. Especially to morally backwards vegans and vegetarians who base their eating habits on "not having a face".
It's a dumb bias that just because they're cute and cuddly and able to move around that "higher" organisms get special treatment.
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 25, 2009, 02:55:52 AM
It's a dumb bias that just because they're cute and cuddly and able to move around that "higher" organisms get special treatment.
Which is bullshit of course, because plants move around plenty. Phototaxis, gravitaxis, seed transportation, growth modes, carnivorous and other triggers, allopathic and other chemical defense systems, etc etc etc. Behavior is whatever an organism does, when and where and how and why they do it. Plants are no exception.
A Kudzu vine may move slower than a human but it will still drown a whole hillside of trees in a summer, or a house.
I figure that since they're already dead, why not?
*Nom nom nom*
(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20091207.gif)
I do, the murder makes the meat taste better.
I beat my dogs before I butcher them; the adrenaline makes the meat taste better.
Also I rape them, but that's just for fun.
Quote from: Nasturtiums on December 25, 2009, 02:55:52 AM
It's a dumb bias that just because they're cute and cuddly and able to move around that "higher" organisms get special treatment.
I dunno, I think cows and turkeys are pretty damned ugly. And if they wanted special treatment they should've evolved so they tasted like broccoli instead of yummy bacon and such.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 25, 2009, 05:35:21 PM
I beat my dogs before I butcher them; the adrenaline makes the meat taste better.
I thought adrenaline actually makes the meat taste worse? Or it was stress hormones, or something.
Quote from: Triple Zero on December 29, 2009, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 25, 2009, 05:35:21 PM
I beat my dogs before I butcher them; the adrenaline makes the meat taste better.
I thought adrenaline actually makes the meat taste worse? Or it was stress hormones, or something.
Worse is better. We are, after all,
manly men.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 25, 2009, 05:35:21 PM
I beat my dogs before I butcher them; the adrenaline makes the meat taste better.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on December 25, 2009, 05:35:40 PM
Also I rape them, but that's just for fun.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Moral vegetarians are, almost exclusively, physically piss-weak. Comes from not having enough good protein in their diet to grow proper muscles.
Just beat the shit out of them and move on.
Quote from: Alty on December 24, 2009, 03:30:23 PM
I've seen *giggle* fruitarians argue this, or rather, that fruit is the only thing that seeks consumption by animals for seed propagation.
hadn't heard of these fruit people before.
do they shit in their yards?
I believe their goal is to infiltrate The Man's Municipal Water Supply with nature.
http://www.fruitarian.com/
Apparently this diet leads to Healthy Life and Energy!
QuoteCooked food eating creates physical and emotional addiction to the person who eats it... weakens the immune system, makes people grow and look older and develops serious illnesses over time, it also makes societies to develop habits and economic structures that are pollutant to the environment destroying life and the life supporting mechanisms of our planet!
I would be happy eating sweet oranges all day every day until I get sick.
I hazily recall something about a woman from long ago, a duchess or comtesse or something like that, who ate nothing but oranges and perhaps a bit of toast in the morning.
You'd never get scurvy, that's for sure.
Quote from: Alty on January 06, 2010, 07:30:46 PM
I believe their goal is to infiltrate The Man's Municipal Water Supply with nature.
http://www.fruitarian.com/
Apparently this diet leads to Healthy Life and Energy!
QuoteCooked food eating creates physical and emotional addiction to the person who eats it... weakens the immune system, makes people grow and look older and develops serious illnesses over time, it also makes societies to develop habits and economic structures that are pollutant to the environment destroying life and the life supporting mechanisms of our planet!
For an alternate interpretation, cooked food can be digested more efficiently, providing the energy we need to power our Massive Fucking Brains.
Quote from: GA on January 08, 2010, 01:37:56 AM
Quote from: Alty on January 06, 2010, 07:30:46 PM
I believe their goal is to infiltrate The Man's Municipal Water Supply with nature.
http://www.fruitarian.com/
Apparently this diet leads to Healthy Life and Energy!
QuoteCooked food eating creates physical and emotional addiction to the person who eats it... weakens the immune system, makes people grow and look older and develops serious illnesses over time, it also makes societies to develop habits and economic structures that are pollutant to the environment destroying life and the life supporting mechanisms of our planet!
For an alternate interpretation, cooked food can be digested more efficiently, providing the energy we need to power our Massive Fucking Brains.
Funny needing to sustain something we don't use.
Quote from: GA on January 08, 2010, 01:37:56 AM
Quote from: Alty on January 06, 2010, 07:30:46 PM
I believe their goal is to infiltrate The Man's Municipal Water Supply with nature.
http://www.fruitarian.com/
Apparently this diet leads to Healthy Life and Energy!
QuoteCooked food eating creates physical and emotional addiction to the person who eats it... weakens the immune system, makes people grow and look older and develops serious illnesses over time, it also makes societies to develop habits and economic structures that are pollutant to the environment destroying life and the life supporting mechanisms of our planet!
For an alternate interpretation, cooked food can be digested more efficiently, providing the energy we need to power our Massive Fucking Brains.
That is simply a rationalization to excuse your filthy cooked food addiction. Damned "cookies".
I fucking love cookies.
I think if I ever adopt kids and they won't eat cooked food I'm going to say,
"HEY, some greek guy has been chained to a rock for the past 4 thousand years having his inners pecked at by vultures so that you could eat cooked food! So eat your pasta bake!"
ITT, Kai proves to be a perfect parent.
Quote from: Kai on January 08, 2010, 12:49:58 PM
I think if I ever adopt kids and they won't eat cooked food I'm going to say,
"HEY, some greek guy has been chained to a rock for the past 4 thousand years having his inners pecked at by vultures so that you could eat cooked food! So eat your pasta bake!"
:mittens:
that's excellent!
:D
I just made sure that my kid understood as early as possible that he's eating animals.
I don't know if he understands the finality of death, (although there have been a couple spooky instances that made me think he is a very old soul if there is such a thing) but when we go to my folks place and he helps get the eggs from the chickens he will mention that he wants to eat one.
not the eggs.
the chickens.
Quote from: Kai on January 08, 2010, 12:49:58 PM
I think if I ever adopt kids and they won't eat cooked food I'm going to say,
"HEY, some greek guy has been chained to a rock for the past 4 thousand years having his inners pecked at by vultures so that you could eat cooked food! So eat your pasta bake!"
SO STEALING THAT
:mittens:
BEST THREAD EVOR
I've read on a number of vegan websites that even accepting that plants feel pain, veganism is still the least cruel diet because less plants are killed by a vegan diet than by a meat-eating diet because the animals eat mad amounts of plants. They say this all over the place, but I've been unable to find any kind of source for that.
Vegans are wussies! Seriously. My sister eats only raw foods.