Just got my new knives in the mail today.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/9/5/1/8/0/2/webimg/345847206_o.jpg?nc=732)
and
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/9/5/1/8/0/2/webimg/345154869_o.jpg?nc=637)
these are pretty much the nicest things I own, and sharp enough to cut you without you even knowing it.
the swirls are kinda hypnotic
shit it must make things easy in the kitchen
They look awesome
lookin' sharp! ;-)
Yeah, I bet it makes dinner preparation so easy.
:eek:
Beautiful. Handmade?
That is the sexiest shit Enrico has see in a decade.
God those are gorgeous.
That's Japanese steel too, isn't it?
swirlssssssssssssssohypnoticccc
:fap:
DEAR GOD, THEY EVEN HAVE A WATERMARK.
those are fucking awesome. I want!!!
Quote from: Richter on March 05, 2010, 01:23:22 PM
:eek:
Beautiful. Handmade?
What's the alternative? If there's a machine pooping out these babies, or perhaps a tree which they grow on, I WANT THREE OF THEM.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 05, 2010, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: Richter on March 05, 2010, 01:23:22 PM
:eek:
Beautiful. Handmade?
What's the alternative? If there's a machine pooping out these babies, or perhaps a tree which they grow on, I WANT THREE OF THEM.
Doubtfull. If someone automated making knives like that (which soem companies have done with damascus, they're an odd sort of pervert.
The materials going into both, the finish, and the look say handmade to me. Automation generally means volume, generally means they want wide - appeal price / quality combination in their product. They have a certain look too, some details are not what you see in a mass - market knife. (brass rivets, wood handle, wood bolster combination, for example.) Even the top one, while mathcing the archetype you might call "chef's knife", is deliberately simple in the handle and bolster. (No ergonomic curving even attempted.)
i am jealous
you are king of slice
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 04:31:40 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 05, 2010, 02:43:55 PM
That's Japanese steel too, isn't it?
:crankey:
Just because they're Damascus doesn't mean they weren't made in Japan.
Those are gorgeous, ECH! I have knife envy.
Makes my old 10" Kershaw-Shun look cute by comparison.
Quote from: Richter on March 05, 2010, 01:23:22 PM
:eek:
Beautiful. Handmade?
yup. Richmond Cutlery in the UK. These guys make some amazing stuff. I want to get some of their folding knives.
Hey, cool! Is that Damascus steel?
EDIT: Shoulda read the whole thing...
Quote from: Suu on March 05, 2010, 04:50:38 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 04:31:40 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 05, 2010, 02:43:55 PM
That's Japanese steel too, isn't it?
:crankey:
Just because they're Damascus doesn't mean they weren't made in Japan.
Quote from: Suu on March 05, 2010, 04:50:38 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 04:31:40 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 05, 2010, 02:43:55 PM
That's Japanese steel too, isn't it?
:crankey:
Just because they're Damascus doesn't mean they weren't made in Japan.
troof. My other damascus knife is Japanese. In fact, these might be the first non-Japanese damascus knives I've ever seen in person. The japanese knives tend to be lighter weight though. Most of them have between 33 and 65 layers. These are 341`layers each, and pattern-welded using a technique that allows them to only use high-carbon steel, whereas traditional damascus was usually made with either HC steel and a nickel alloy or HC steel and a softer steel. These things are a 62 on the Rockwell hardness scale, whereas even most japanese damascus knives are somewhere in the 55-60 range.
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
It was rediscovered in the 90s, but what ECH bought isn't true Damascus steel, its welded (which looks the same). It looks pretty, but its no different from normal steel of the makeup. (Though that's perfectly alright for kitchen knives).
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
It was rediscovered in the 90s, but what ECH bought isn't true Damascus steel, its welded (which looks the same). It looks pretty, but its no different from normal steel of the makeup. (Though that's perfectly alright for kitchen knives).
Ah, I see. I guess it's been more than "a few years."
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
not that I'm aware of. There's nothing magical about damascus steel. In fact, applying the same technique with today's technology and alloys yields a blade far superior to historical damascus steel.
however, if I'm wrong and anyone has information that shows an appreciable difference between old-school damascus steel and today's pattern-welded high-carbon alloys, I'd love to see it.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
It was rediscovered in the 90s, but what ECH bought isn't true Damascus steel, its welded (which looks the same). It looks pretty, but its no different from normal steel of the makeup. (Though that's perfectly alright for kitchen knives).
actually, it is different in terms of cutting performance. the pattern weld allows for a very fine serration in the wear pattern on the blade's edge, which has the effect of keeping the edge keener longer and also allows it to slice through everything as though everything were warm butter.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
It was rediscovered in the 90s, but what ECH bought isn't true Damascus steel, its welded (which looks the same). It looks pretty, but its no different from normal steel of the makeup. (Though that's perfectly alright for kitchen knives).
actually, it is different in terms of cutting performance. the pattern weld allows for a very fine serration in the wear pattern on the blade's edge, which has the effect of keeping the edge keener longer and also allows it to slice through everything as though everything were warm butter.
Have you tried them out on particularly difficult materials?
the one with the walnut handle needs to be sharpened a bit more, but the one with the black handle is actually sharper than my water buffalo knife, which was previously the sharpest knife I had ever seen (and a gift from Jacque Richard), let alone owned. 90% of what I do is run-of-the-mill slicing and dicing, and it's like whatever I'm cutting isn't even there. I'm pretty sure I could behead someone cleanly with this blade, if it were long enough.
Fucking nice knife Hustle.
Reminds me of many years back, mid nineties maybe, when I was standing outside a shop somewhere in Austria with my dad looking at a display of knives like these, swords, and other such items. I was rambling on about toledo steel, trying to sound like I knew what I was talking about; when a random stranger just appeared behind us, talked briefly about how while historically toledo steel was of high quality, in recent years the quality of toledo steel was suspect because of the large amounts of factory produced items that would recieve the label of toledo steel. After that, he wandered off into the night leaving me somewhat perplexed.
So yeah, sorry about the random non sequiter , that is a beautiful fucking blade.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 07:47:08 PM
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
not that I'm aware of. There's nothing magical about Damascus steel. In fact, applying the same technique with today's technology and alloys yields a blade far superior to historical Damascus steel.
however, if I'm wrong and anyone has information that shows an appreciable difference between old-school damascus steel and today's pattern-welded high-carbon alloys, I'd love to see it.
Pattern welded is just as old school as the crucible (or wootz) method. The internal structure is different, the chemical makeup is different (tis is why the technique was lost, the old smiths didn't know they needed special ore, and modern metallurgists assumed that impurities of less than 100 parts per million wouldn't have an effect) and the bands are closer together in wootz. Wootz was very high quality for the time, but digging through my notes and checking it against tool steels, I'd take the tool steel. (Wootz had hardness of 20-35, the stuff the make jackhammers out of, which is more than durable, is 58-60 according to wikipedia). I'm not sure what the quality of wootz steel using modern metals would be, but probably a hell of a lot higher than the old stuff.
Check Scientific American, January 2001 for a write up. You can probably dig up other sources on Google scholar if you have access to any of it. The key researchers are Verhoeven, J. D., and A. H. Pendray.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
It was rediscovered in the 90s, but what ECH bought isn't true Damascus steel, its welded (which looks the same). It looks pretty, but its no different from normal steel of the makeup. (Though that's perfectly alright for kitchen knives).
actually, it is different in terms of cutting performance. the pattern weld allows for a very fine serration in the wear pattern on the blade's edge, which has the effect of keeping the edge keener longer and also allows it to slice through everything as though everything were warm butter.
I haven't seen serration taken into account. So I'll retract that, pattern welded is different from other steels, but in a different way.
I wonder if rhenium diboride would make good knives. It is supposed to be extremely hard. Read about it in a science mag a while ago...
I need some ceremonial iridium daggers for my doomsday cult.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 07:47:08 PM
Quote from: dimo on March 05, 2010, 07:01:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few years since I was into this kind of stuff, but isn't the process of making true Damascus steel lost?
not that I'm aware of. There's nothing magical about Damascus steel. In fact, applying the same technique with today's technology and alloys yields a blade far superior to historical Damascus steel.
however, if I'm wrong and anyone has information that shows an appreciable difference between old-school damascus steel and today's pattern-welded high-carbon alloys, I'd love to see it.
Pattern welded is just as old school as the crucible (or wootz) method. The internal structure is different, the chemical makeup is different (tis is why the technique was lost, the old smiths didn't know they needed special ore, and modern metallurgists assumed that impurities of less than 100 parts per million wouldn't have an effect) and the bands are closer together in wootz. Wootz was very high quality for the time, but digging through my notes and checking it against tool steels, I'd take the tool steel. (Wootz had hardness of 20-35, the stuff the make jackhammers out of, which is more than durable, is 58-60 according to wikipedia). I'm not sure what the quality of wootz steel using modern metals would be, but probably a hell of a lot higher than the old stuff.
Check Scientific American, January 2001 for a write up. You can probably dig up other sources on Google scholar if you have access to any of it. The key researchers are Verhoeven, J. D., and A. H. Pendray.
sweet! thanks, dude.
I just used the one with the black handle to shave filament-thin slices of an over-ripe grape.
I also just bought a sweet zirconium-blade knife. Won't set off metal detectors, and keeps it's edge 60 times longer than steel. Can't really use it for anything other than straight cuts, and it'll shatter if you bump it wrong or hit it against anything on its side, but it's great for leafy greens and fresh herbs and fruits because the blade is non-reactive.
Very cool! I'd love to hear firsthand how it compares to conventional knives.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 09:16:59 PM
I also just bought a sweet zirconium-blade knife. Won't set off metal detectors, and keeps it's edge 60 times longer than steel. Can't really use it for anything other than straight cuts, and it'll shatter if you bump it wrong or hit it against anything on its side, but it's great for leafy greens and fresh herbs and fruits because the blade is non-reactive.
Ooo, are they very expensive?
depends. the best ones I've found are made by Kyocera, they go for anywhere from $30-ish for a paring knife to over $100 for an 8" chef knife. Mine is made by Asahi, which is nearly as good as Kyocera for around half the price (I paid $35 for a 6" chef knife). I can't recommend any of the cheaper brands as they're mostly inferior material and will break more easily and the cutting edge will tend to develop chips and nicks over time. As I said, they're very limited in their practical application, but for the things they are useful for they are pretty much unparalleled.
ETA: also, you CAN NOT use conventional sharpening tools on them. They have to be professionally sharpened by someone with the proper diamond-grinder for ceramic/zirconium blades. This isn't a big problem, since they keep their edge so long. I'll probably have to sharpen mine every 4 to 6 months, using it in a commercial kitchen 5 days a week. You would probably have to sharpen it every couple of years.
Excellent. Yeah I was looking at those Kyoceras, they're sexy little things.
I think I'll shop for one when my next grant comes in.
HOLY SHIT
Best knives ever.
Good to know. :)
Just how much were these knives anyway?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 09:53:49 PM
Just how much were these knives anyway?
The one I want:
http://www.metrokitchen.com/product/KJ-KT-155-HIP-D
I meant the Damascus ones from the Op.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 08:43:41 PM
the one with the walnut handle needs to be sharpened a bit more, but the one with the black handle is actually sharper than my water buffalo knife, which was previously the sharpest knife I had ever seen (and a gift from Jacque Richard), let alone owned. 90% of what I do is run-of-the-mill slicing and dicing, and it's like whatever I'm cutting isn't even there. I'm pretty sure I could behead someone cleanly with this blade, if it were long enough.
Swote. I've lately been getting some decent knives as presents, several orders of magnitude better than the cheap(est) set I had before.
Similar to having a clean and relatively spaceous kitchen, sharp knives just make cooking more
fun.
Do you have any tips on how not to cut off parts of the tops of your fingers, or is that basically just a matter of being insanely careful?
Cause it seems, the sharper the knife, the sooner and more splattery I manage to fuck up some part of my hand.
1) Duller knives are more dangerous. Keep that shit as sharp as you can.
2) Do this:
(http://media.wiley.com/Lux/00/88400.image0.jpg)
But keep your thumb away from the cutting point.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 07:05:42 PM
Made in Japan, and Japanese steel are not the same thing.
La dee fucking da.
Quote from: Sigmatic on March 05, 2010, 10:08:23 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 09:53:49 PM
Just how much were these knives anyway?
The one I want:
http://www.metrokitchen.com/product/KJ-KT-155-HIP-D
that IS nice, but I have trouble imagining it's $100 better than Kyocera's normal ceramic chef knife.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 05, 2010, 11:24:52 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 05, 2010, 08:43:41 PM
the one with the walnut handle needs to be sharpened a bit more, but the one with the black handle is actually sharper than my water buffalo knife, which was previously the sharpest knife I had ever seen (and a gift from Jacque Richard), let alone owned. 90% of what I do is run-of-the-mill slicing and dicing, and it's like whatever I'm cutting isn't even there. I'm pretty sure I could behead someone cleanly with this blade, if it were long enough.
Swote. I've lately been getting some decent knives as presents, several orders of magnitude better than the cheap(est) set I had before.
Similar to having a clean and relatively spaceous kitchen, sharp knives just make cooking more fun.
Do you have any tips on how not to cut off parts of the tops of your fingers, or is that basically just a matter of being insanely careful?
Cause it seems, the sharper the knife, the sooner and more splattery I manage to fuck up some part of my hand.
when you're slicing/dicing, the hand that's not holding the knife should have the fingers loosely tented with the tips of the fingers slightly curled inwards so that your fingernails act as a sort of guide/failsafe, rather than the flesh at the tips. That said, you're generally MUCH more likely to injure yourself with a dull knife than a sharp one.
ETA: or, just see Siggy's post.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 05, 2010, 09:53:49 PM
Just how much were these knives anyway?
I got them on ebay and paid around $100 for the two of them, but realistically for a knife like this you could expect to pay anywhere from $200 to $300 each. I'd have been quite happy to pay $200 for each of these knives.