What an awesome band name.
Also:
http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/26/the-world-s-only-immortal-animal.html
QuoteSince it is capable of cycling from a mature adult stage to an immature polyp stage and back again, there may be no natural limit to its life span. Scientists say the hydrozoan jellyfish is the only known animal that can repeatedly turn back the hands of time and revert to its polyp state (its first stage of life).
That's pretty bizarre. But neat.
what animals eat jelly fish?
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 02:52:34 AM
what animals eat jelly fish?
Squid, maybe, and other ocean animals.
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 02:52:34 AM
what animals eat jelly fish?
Sea turtles do. Which is why they try to gulp down plastic bags and make marine life enthusiasts cry.
THat's neat, seems like something out of a sci-fi book. I for one, welcome our jellyfish overlords. Once they grown legs and opposable thumbs of course.
Is this a fairly recent development? (Evolution wise)
Maybe they'll turn into those brain things at mass effect?
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on June 29, 2010, 04:05:50 AM
That's neat, seems like something out of a sci-fi book. I for one, welcome our jellyfish overlords. Once they grown legs and opposable thumbs of course.
Is this a fairly recent development? (Evolution wise)
I seem to remember that
ageing is a fairly recent development.
All living things used to be immortal.
Of course, this was before the higher forms of live developed.
I assume this species' ability developed again instead of it being a remainder of the past.
so in short: all simple species don't age. All higher(not implying that they are actually better, I'm just talking about an increased level of complexity) species age, and this species learned to reverse the ageing process.
OK, so that wasn't that short.
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 02:52:34 AM
what animals eat jelly fish?
They sell it at the local asian supermarket here :D I guess I'll have to try. I bet it won't taste like much except the pickle or brine it is kept in.
Also I keep reading this thread is "Immoral Jellyfish", and keep wondering wtf that could mean.
THIS JELLYFISH DOES NOT RESPECT HIS ELDERS!
your eating immortal ... things!
What would they taste like ... kinda curious.
But if a complex life form reversed the aging process, or 'started again' wouldn't it necessarily forget everything? Since its just uh collapsing and re-forming the brain?
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 01:07:24 PM
your eating immortal ... things!
What would they taste like ... kinda curious.
But if a complex life form reversed the aging process, or 'started again' wouldn't it necessarily forget everything? Since its just uh collapsing and re-forming the brain?
Hydrozoans don't have brains.
Quote from: Kai on June 29, 2010, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 01:07:24 PM
your eating immortal ... things!
What would they taste like ... kinda curious.
But if a complex life form reversed the aging process, or 'started again' wouldn't it necessarily forget everything? Since its just uh collapsing and re-forming the brain?
Hydrozoans don't have brains.
But hypothetically if a primate did it, would they unlearn everything?
Would a blue dream sneeze like an ashtray?
This.
twid: Your question makes no sense.
Even if you somehow manage to force it to happen, your subject would die. Instantly.
Fair enough.
Ok, so let me phrase it this way.
These immortal jellyfish don't have brains. Let say that they get them (brains) without otherwise changing ability and are capable of learning. When they revert back to their immature state, would they then forget everything? And if the answer is that they would die instantly, how? This is supposed to grant immortality to the jellyfish. I used primates as an example because of their brains.
If consciousness and memory is, indeed, an emergent property of the structure and interconnection of neurons within the brain, then yes - it'd forget everything. If consciousness is like a piece of string turned around with a knot and, or trefoil, or an antenna or a magic soul, then no - mr jellyfish would remember everything, including to return that library book on time, but would live happily ever after, and after.
Take your pick.
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 02:54:46 PM
If consciousness and memory is, indeed, an emergent property of the structure and interconnection of neurons within the brain, then yes - it'd forget everything. If consciousness is like a piece of string turned around with a knot and, or trefoil, or an antenna or a magic soul, then no - mr jellyfish would remember everything, including to return that library book on time, but would live happily ever after, and after.
Take your pick.
Thanks. NotPublished's post seemed to be asking the question and got brushed off with "they don't have brains", which unless I'm wrong, wasn't the point.
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 02:26:33 PM
Would a blue dream sneeze like an ashtray?
FUCK YOU MY PENDULUM DIED OF WRENCH CURDS
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 02:52:34 AM
what animals eat jelly fish?
My daughter eats jellyfish. She says it's delicious.
Quote from: Nigel on June 29, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 02:52:34 AM
what animals eat jelly fish?
My daughter eats jellyfish. She says it's delicious.
Wish I knew. I have a no-seafood policy. Can't stomach the smells.
Quote from: Regret on June 29, 2010, 02:29:19 PM
This.
twid: Your question makes no sense.
Even if you somehow manage to force it to happen, your subject would die. Instantly.
It makes perfect sense. Rephrase it like this: If somehow our DNA changed to include an aging process that was regenerative instead of degenerative, would we lose all previously stored information as our brains went through the changes of renewing to a childlike state?
Possibly, depending on how the brain handled those changes. It's also possible that the brain would regenerate in stages, and memories would simply be transferred to new cell growth. Since it's all hypothetical, any possibility exists.
Well, i can say with some authority that i regularly return to an immature state, and I forget tons of shit, like, all the time.
so, yes.
Quote from: Nigel on June 29, 2010, 09:16:40 PM
Quote from: Regret on June 29, 2010, 02:29:19 PM
This.
twid: Your question makes no sense.
Even if you somehow manage to force it to happen, your subject would die. Instantly.
It makes perfect sense. Rephrase it like this: If somehow our DNA changed to include an aging process that was regenerative instead of degenerative, would we lose all previously stored information as our brains went through the changes of renewing to a childlike state?
Possibly, depending on how the brain handled those changes. It's also possible that the brain would regenerate in stages, and memories would simply be transferred to new cell growth. Since it's all hypothetical, any possibility exists.
This. Thanks.
You're welcome!
Quote from: Nigel on June 29, 2010, 10:26:17 PM
You're welcome!
:)
Sometimes my scientifically illiterate mind misses "hypothetical"
Maybe I should go pure Creationist and go, "look, dudes, it's just a theory"
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on June 29, 2010, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 02:54:46 PM
If consciousness and memory is, indeed, an emergent property of the structure and interconnection of neurons within the brain, then yes - it'd forget everything. If consciousness is like a piece of string turned around with a knot and, or trefoil, or an antenna or a magic soul, then no - mr jellyfish would remember everything, including to return that library book on time, but would live happily ever after, and after.
Take your pick.
Thanks. NotPublished's post seemed to be asking the question and got brushed off with "they don't have brains", which unless I'm wrong, wasn't the point.
yup that was what I was asking
cheers :)
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on June 29, 2010, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 02:54:46 PM
If consciousness and memory is, indeed, an emergent property of the structure and interconnection of neurons within the brain, then yes - it'd forget everything. If consciousness is like a piece of string turned around with a knot and, or trefoil, or an antenna or a magic soul, then no - mr jellyfish would remember everything, including to return that library book on time, but would live happily ever after, and after.
Take your pick.
Thanks. NotPublished's post seemed to be asking the question and got brushed off with "they don't have brains", which unless I'm wrong, wasn't the point.
yup that was what I was asking
cheers :)
Nigel phrased it better than I did, but :cheers:
It is an interesting question when you think about it.
Unfotunately I think everything would of been forgotten (If a complex structure with a brain did the reverse age thingy etc), unless there comes a time and age where you can store your brain on a MySQL database :lol:
Since well-developed brain parts would be going to mush and not operate in the same way; then they would be accessed differently, wouldn't they? Unless it is as nigel says - it could be possible that things will return in stages as the brain develops.
What is the age the brain stops fully growing? I understand brain plasticity is constantly changing, but is there an age where it just stops 'growing' like our bodies?
I was going on the assumption that the age reversion was back to a "polyp" state, or equivalent. But Nigels point about old memories implanting themselves onto new structure is interesting in that -- how much could you "compress" the size of the brain without losing memories/personality? Also - how much memory/personality could you lose without anyone else being any the wiser?
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 11:12:46 PM
Unfotunately I think everything would of been forgotten (If a complex structure with a brain did the reverse age thingy etc), unless there comes a time and age where you can store your brain on a MySQL database :lol:
Since well-developed brain parts would be going to mush and not operate in the same way; then they would be accessed differently, wouldn't they? Unless it is as nigel says - it could be possible that things will return in stages as the brain develops.
What is the age the brain stops fully growing? I understand brain plasticity is constantly changing, but is there an age where it just stops 'growing' like our bodies?
Approximately age 18 if I recall correctly.
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 11:15:04 PM
I was going on the assumption that the age reversion was back to a "polyp" state, or equivalent. But Nigels point about old memories implanting themselves onto new structure is interesting in that -- how much could you "compress" the size of the brain without losing memories/personality? Also - how much memory/personality could you lose without anyone else being any the wiser?
Well, I suppose that could be likened to mild to moderate brain damage. I have a cousin who suffered as such, and he was the same person. Just rambled more than he usually did. But that might be due to other factors.
Does aging count as "moderate brain damage" also?
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 11:30:12 PM
Does aging count as "moderate brain damage" also?
I'm sure it could. Brain cells don't regenerate, so everyone basically suffers gradual brain damage over time, as I understand it. I think for this sort of conjecture though it would definitely count- pruning off of a percentage of brain matter while returning to the polyp stage, but possibly retaining some significant amount of memories and personality in the process.
Though in practice it might end up being vague memories of the past phase while retaining the essentials learned to survive, interact, and successfully reproduce, with some sort of vestige of previous personality.
Hmm perhaps this is where theories such as Cell Memory would shine?
I'm not sure if I am repeating this right - I think I heard that it was theoretically possible to store the world's memories in a grain of sand (Or rather the energy in the atom)
Quote from: NotPublished on June 29, 2010, 11:59:49 PM
Hmm perhaps this is where theories such as Cell Memory would shine?
I'm not sure if I am repeating this right - I think I heard that it was theoretically possible to store the world's memories in a grain of sand (Or rather the energy in the atom)
That's pretty interesting. Do you remember generally where you heard this?
I'm not sure exactly where I heard this, a memory popped up while talking about it - so I was repeating it here hoping someone might know something.
Perhaps we should eventually split topics if something interesting comes up?
Quote from: NotPublished on June 30, 2010, 12:11:34 AM
I'm not sure exactly where I heard this, a memory popped up while talking about it - so I was repeating it here hoping someone might know something.
Perhaps we should eventually split topics if something interesting comes up?
Good call, I'd like to hear more about it. :)
IIRC, although for many many years the common wisdom was that we stop growing new brain cells at a certain point, it's been recently discovered that we continue growing new brain cells throughout our lives, but most of them just die, unused. However, the more new information you are learning at any given point, the more new cells will survive and be retained.
It's kind of fucking cool.
Quote from: Nigel on June 30, 2010, 12:39:29 AM
IIRC, although for many many years the common wisdom was that we stop growing new brain cells at a certain point, it's been recently discovered that we continue growing new brain cells throughout our lives, but most of them just die, unused. However, the more new information you are learning at any given point, the more new cells will survive and be retained.
It's kind of fucking cool.
I like that even better!