...upon these delightful Chinese knockoff toys.
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/04/not_so_super_chinese_superhero.php
Vader the motorcycle cop! :lulz:
Robert Cop is my favorite. Batman on a horse is good too :lol:
Quote from: Epimetheus on April 19, 2010, 07:06:16 PM
Robert Cop is my favorite. Batman on a horse is good too :lol:
It's like they lumped all their factory seconds together.
why do they change the names? are they selling them in some market that would allow the form/likeness to be used as long as the name was slightly different?
They have this thing now called "International Copyright Law".
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
They have this thing now called "International Copyright Law".
Which the Chinese have very little problem circumventing or simply ignoring, much as we ignored the illegal "product dumping" the Japanese did in the 1970s, and which effectively destroyed the American manufacturers of televisions and other appliances.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
They have this thing now called "International Copyright Law".
doesn't it protect the image that they are duplicating as well as the names that they are changing?
Quote from: Iptuous on April 19, 2010, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
They have this thing now called "International Copyright Law".
doesn't it protect the image that they are duplicating as well as the names that they are changing?
To Dok: It's still illegal in China, because China recognizes international copyright law. They simply don't have the structure in place to reinforce it.
To Iptuous: It's interesting that you would bring that up, because as a 3d artist this is a very common issue, and you might not be at all surprised that China is the main perpetrator of design copy in the field of glass.
No.
3d art is protected under patent, not copyright. Which is, frankly, a fucked situation and I would like to see it remedied, even though with my focus as a controlled-organic/chemical artist almost none of my designs are copyable without direct instruction. I have had many friends whose designs are getting knocked off badly in China, and while that doesn't impact their sales, it does affect glass sales overall because people buy the cheapest first and don't always realize that the difference in quality will be so huge.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:02:13 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on April 19, 2010, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 07:36:40 PM
They have this thing now called "International Copyright Law".
doesn't it protect the image that they are duplicating as well as the names that they are changing?
To Dok: It's still illegal in China, because China recognizes international copyright law. They simply don't have the structure in place to reinforce it.
I'd hazard that the Chinese government has no interest at all in enforcement, until (such as in the melamine issue a couple of years back) the situation becomes intolerable, whereupon they'll execute a couple of schmoes, and pretend it's all fixed.
Dok,
Has a "no China" policy at the plant.
the knockoffs are obviously a huge thing in electronics design that i am familiar with as well...
there was a story a few years back where some guys in China knocked off an entire company. not just the product. they did the whole freaking company. the organization, processes, procedures, products, facilities.... everything.
crazy.
also, you may have heard of 'capacitor plague'? some corporate espionage in, like 1998 or something, by some tiawanese company yielded the secret formula for some japanese manufacturer's electrolyte solution (a black magic thing, apparently) Unfortunately, it was an incomplete formula. the capacitors have hydrogen gas buildup that causes them to bulge, and pop, and fail by spraying electrolyte all over your freaking motherboard/video card/etc. This was discovered only after shit tons of these products were on the market, and there were still capacitors being used that had this problem just a couple years ago. i guess they got dumped into giant bins with the good ones, and just had to work their way through the system like food poisoning. it was a huge thing...
I actually don't think that the individuals working for the Chinese government is as uncaring as that. I really just think that it's a great example of how incapable a giant bureaucracy is of policing/regulating a massive nation.
I have heard directly from Chinese citizens that the local governments are, predictably, hopelessly corrupt simply because people who want to be in power are what they are, and the whole nation is simply too huge for good oversight to be feasible. There are also factories trying really hard to produce good product and provide safe working conditions... and they receive no government support for it. Sometimes these factories, which are the Chinese equivalent of Intel, support an entire "village"... and a Chinese "village" is usually a metropolis larger than ANY US city.
In the US we know so little about China, and assume so much, it's retarded. Especially because we ARE headed to where they are, and by the time we get there, they will hopefully have divided into more manageable regions.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:35:42 PM
I actually don't think that the individuals working for the Chinese government is as uncaring as that. I really just think that it's a great example of how incapable a giant bureaucracy is of policing/regulating a massive nation.
I don't know. All I know is that the quality of Chinese products is absolute shit. Their steel ablates when you weld it, their teflon is adulterated to the point where valves fail within hours, etc.
Also, a monster run of counterfeit, under-tempered "Timken" bearings came out of China, and fucked up equipment all over the country.
It's either deliberate, or incompetence on such a scale as to not matter.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:41:53 PM
In the US we know so little about China, and assume so much, it's retarded. Especially because we ARE headed to where they are, and by the time we get there, they will hopefully have divided into more manageable regions.
Don't know. Their principle problem is population. We don't have that particular nightmare.
I would argue that their principal problem is not overpopulation, but size.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:50:05 PM
I would argue that their principle problem is not overpopulation, but size.
what? You saying Chinese people are small?...
...Okay, who the fuck deleted the "that's racist" smiley? This post needs it to be even remotely funny :argh!:
China, overall, is 78 on the list of population density. Density is not the problem, or Holland would be a 3rd world country.
I will agree on the quality of their products. I will also say that the main reason for this is a ridiculous level of inexperience with manufacturing many of the products (Some Chinese products are items that the Chinese have been superb at for centuries) and also a poverty in the factories.
The main problem, which is also the reason that the USSR didn't last, and why the USA won't last, is that the larger an area is, with a fairly dense population, is that regulating an enormous area with an enormous population is impossible.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2010, 08:54:29 PM
...Okay, who the fuck deleted the "that's racist" smiley? This post needs it to be even remotely funny :argh!:
wouldn't this thread need a "that's lacist" smiley?
As far as I can see, organized crime controls everything outside of Beijing. Usually these guys are connected with the security services, and in return for "keeping the peace" are allowed to break as many other laws as they feel like. Unless they get too out of hand, in which case someone comes down from the Central Office and puts their head on a spike. But in the Chinese provinces, prostitution, protection rackets and drugs are rife, I don't see why copyright infringement would be any different.
Also, I have to say that there is horrormirthiness in the fact that US-based corporations gave away our entire manufacturing base to China, in the name of profits. The same profits that many of our US houses now sit on, upside-down after a "bailout" that came from our pockets but benefited none of us.
There is a good reason I am considering switching trades from arts, which this country could give a fuck about, to bartending, where my main income will be more difficult to track. I have everything I ever wanted. Got my house, kids, lifestyle. My mission now is to pay the least taxes possible, because I live with a government that exists to take middle-class people in other countries back to the third world.
Just before we got out of manufacturing there was talk of opening a factory in China. I'm kinda glad we didn't. At least in Morocco you got the impression that your exploitatively small wages were at least helping these people out. The Chinese factories kept their workers like fucking battery hens.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 09:04:33 PM
As far as I can see, organized crime controls everything outside of Beijing. Usually these guys are connected with the security services, and in return for "keeping the peace" are allowed to break as many other laws as they feel like. Unless they get too out of hand, in which case someone comes down from the Central Office and puts their head on a spike. But in the Chinese provinces, prostitution, protection rackets and drugs are rife, I don't see why copyright infringement would be any different.
If by "Organized crime" you mean a network that is essentially connected via the government, I agree. And it's not, technically, the government's fault, it'd just that it's fucking impossible, ridiculous, for a single agency to govern seven million people.
Good old aneristic delusion, tho, won't stop them trying for maximum lulz. :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2010, 09:08:56 PM
Just before we got out of manufacturing there was talk of opening a factory in China. I'm kinda glad we didn't. At least in Morocco you got the impression that your exploitatively small wages were at least helping these people out. The Chinese factories kept their workers like fucking battery hens.
Weirdly, because of the insanely fucked up way that the Chinese government rocks their currency (it's worth more at night. Think about that) these insane jobs that factory workers do are highly coveted and can hold together a whole town.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 09:11:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 09:04:33 PM
As far as I can see, organized crime controls everything outside of Beijing. Usually these guys are connected with the security services, and in return for "keeping the peace" are allowed to break as many other laws as they feel like. Unless they get too out of hand, in which case someone comes down from the Central Office and puts their head on a spike. But in the Chinese provinces, prostitution, protection rackets and drugs are rife, I don't see why copyright infringement would be any different.
If by "Organized crime" you mean a network that is essentially connected via the government, I agree. And it's not, technically, the government's fault, it'd just that it's fucking impossible, ridiculous, for a single agency to govern seven million people.
Well, they stepped in because government governance failed, I wont deny. In the early days, most were entirely freelance, but nowdays they often intermarry into the MSS, much in the way feudal marriages took place in Europe, because the government sees the sense in cutting a deal with them instead of losing control of the countryside entirely.
Fuijan Province, for example, is basically the Sicily of East Asia.
Gotta fucking love it when a government too large to actually govern turns into, essentially, anarchy.
It's not really anarchy, though, it's just not-officially-state-sponsored autocratic/feudal rule.
In other words, it's what anarchy will always turn into.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:57:44 PM
China, overall, is 78 on the list of population density. Density is not the problem, or Holland would be a 3rd world country.
Yeah, but in terms of absolute numbers, 1.5 billion people or so, with very limited useful land, is a problem no matter what density you're talking about...bear in mind that much of China is mountains. Density per acre of arable land would be a more interesting thing to look at.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 19, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 08:57:44 PM
China, overall, is 78 on the list of population density. Density is not the problem, or Holland would be a 3rd world country.
Yeah, but in terms of absolute numbers, 1.5 billion people or so, with very limited useful land, is a problem no matter what density you're talking about...bear in mind that much of China is mountains. Density per acre of arable land would be a more interesting thing to look at.
Or median population density.
Measured vs. number of people, I think...
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on April 19, 2010, 09:06:50 PM
Also, I have to say that there is horrormirthiness in the fact that US-based corporations gave away our entire manufacturing base to China, in the name of profits. The same profits that many of our US houses now sit on, upside-down after a "bailout" that came from our pockets but benefited none of us.
There is a good reason I am considering switching trades from arts, which this country could give a fuck about, to bartending, where my main income will be more difficult to track. I have everything I ever wanted. Got my house, kids, lifestyle. My mission now is to pay the least taxes possible, because I live with a government that exists to take middle-class people in other countries back to the third world.
You'd make a hell of a bartender, anyway.
It's a shame that it's easier to exist serving poison than it is creating art.
Well, I havent found the figures for that, but it does turn out that 88% of all arable land in China is owned by the richest 20%.
Which is pretty wide, though not plutonomic (http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/01/08/plutonomics/tab/article/) levels of ownership (yet).
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 09:48:54 PM
Well, I havent found the figures for that, but it does turn out that 88% of all arable land in China is owned by the richest 20%.
Which is pretty wide, though not plutonomic (http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/01/08/plutonomics/tab/article/) levels of ownership (yet).
How much arable land is there?
So far the figures are between 10-14% but those sources aren't entirely reliable.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 09:51:46 PM
So far the figures are between 10-14% but those sources aren't entirely reliable.
A lot of mountains, lots of desert (and more every month).
Ah, here we are.
From a Remnin University (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&ved=0CCAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbase.china-europa-forum.net%2Frsc%2Fdocs%2Fcurrent_use_of_arable_land_in_china__problems_and_perspectives.pdf&rct=j&q=arable+land+china&ei=asLMS_P7N8GksAa01ICKAw&usg=AFQjCNHTUzewGpFS1uVVt7q8u0sO2KYbKw) study:
QuoteCurrently, there are only 118,755.00 million hectares of arable land, or only slightly more than 900.0 m² per inhabitant
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 09:53:54 PM
Ah, here we are.
From a Remnin University (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&ved=0CCAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbase.china-europa-forum.net%2Frsc%2Fdocs%2Fcurrent_use_of_arable_land_in_china__problems_and_perspectives.pdf&rct=j&q=arable+land+china&ei=asLMS_P7N8GksAa01ICKAw&usg=AFQjCNHTUzewGpFS1uVVt7q8u0sO2KYbKw) study:
QuoteCurrently, there are only 118,755.00 million hectares of arable land, or only slightly more than 900.0 m² per inhabitant
Yeah, I found this:
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/3912
QuoteA survey released last month by China's Ministry of Land and Resources revealed that the country has lost 8 million hectares, or 6.6 percent, of its arable land in the past decade, Beijing News reported.
As of November 2005, China had approximately 122 million hectares of arable land, covering 13 percent of its territory. This amounted to 0.27 hectares per capita, less than 40 percent of the world per capita average, one-eighth the U.S. level, and one-half the Indian level.
Several major factors are contributing to the land loss. In eastern China, a booming economy and growing urban sprawl have increased the use of arable land for construction purposes. Over the past five years, half of the country's newly added construction land area, a total of 2.19 million hectares, was converted from existing or potential farmlands.
In China's west, where the government has promoted restoration of degraded or fragile ecosystems, lower-quality arable lands have been appropriated for forest or grassland replanting efforts. This has been the dominant driver of arable land loss in recent years, accounting for 84.5, 88.2, 91.6, and 87.3 percent of the annual net losses of the past four years, respectively.
Coupled with the shrinking of arable lands, China's population has been growing by some 10 million people annually, and now comprises 22 percent of the world total. Yet the country is home to only 7 percent of all arable land, creating a rising food security concern, according to Xinhua News Agency.
Leaves about 30 meters X 30 meters farmland per person.
2,143.1 kg/ha of wheat is produced in China, on land reserved for wheat.
1 Ha = 10000M2
900M2 per person = 9% * 2143.1 = 192.879 Kg of wheat/person. It takes 1 quart of wheat per day to feed one man, and a quart wheat = .85Kg.
One man's land area = 222 days of food production/person, if all arable land was used for wheat.
That's 143 days short.
Note that Japan gets double the amount of wheat per acre, so the issue seems to be poor farming techniques.
And too many fucking people.
Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 10:18:57 PM
Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.
China seems to be using fish farming, etc, to increase food yields, as well as horribly overfishing wild fish.
Problem: the mercury and arsenic in their farmed fish is astronomically high.
In any case, if their population doesn't go down drastically, they're in trouble, as they're losing thousands of hectares/year of arable land.
Overfishing will just cause a return to the more traditional occupation in the South China Sea, once those stocks run out.
Which will make importing food rather difficult, though much more exciting.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 10:23:48 PM
Overfishing will just cause a return to the more traditional occupation in the South China Sea, once those stocks run out.
Which will make importing food rather difficult, though much more exciting.
Interesting note: 1.5 Bn people aren't going to sit still and starve, are they?
Historically the condition of China has been more akin to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_Period) than this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China). If aint broke, don't attempt to centralize it into a massive, sprawling despotism which will inevitably collapse.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 19, 2010, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 10:18:57 PM
Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.
Problem: the mercury and arsenic in their farmed fish is astronomically high.
In any case, if their population doesn't go down drastically, they're in trouble...
Am I the only one who's optimistic this problem will sort itself out :evil:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2010, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 19, 2010, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2010, 10:18:57 PM
Looks like being a large farmer with a cargo ship would be a good future career.
Problem: the mercury and arsenic in their farmed fish is astronomically high.
In any case, if their population doesn't go down drastically, they're in trouble...
Am I the only one who's optimistic this problem will sort itself out :evil:
Well, if you live in SE Asia or Siberia, then it will work itself out on you.
Specialman?
Really, China?
The arable regions are sparsely populated, with terrible poverty and little medical care, largely due to local governmental corruption. China could really be the poster child of communistic failure. Much of their food is imported from other countries.
People living in "villages" (many of which put our largest cities to shame) are vastly better off than their agricultural counterparts, existing with the best in technology, decently-paying jobs, high-quality free education, and free medical care. That doesn't serve to balance the flipside of terrible working conditions many people have to exist with.
The most interesting thing about China, IMO, is not that it is a "third world country", because it is the original First World; it is that it is our future.