Quoteoops five pages, let me find the post I should quote, just a moment
seems to me you're looking really really hard to dismiss people.
because on the one hand people that argue the position of even just one aspect of socialism/anarchism/liberalism/chaos magic/paganism/taoism, their points get stretched and then they are painted as BEING a socialist/anarchist/liberal/chaos magician/pagan/taoist.
we've all seen that happen over and over again, right?
and now you say you don't consider them Discordians. actually, I don't really care who you consider Discordians or not. that's not really the point anyway, just another label.
I actually agree with most if not the entire post. Except maybe this one, which I simultaneously agree and disagree with:
> We are not on ANY of their sides, as none of them are on OUR side.
See, you make great points, and they are Very True. But what bothers me is, and this goes for the board in general, the whole EITHER/OR attitude, the "you're either with me or against me" stance, you're either a biped or a worthless monkey.
As soon as someone even just momentarily argues some ideology, they get trashed.
That completely sucks.
Because for me Discordianism is not about not being "with" ANY of them. I enjoy the mix and match approach. And a lot of us do. RAW talked about it, switching reality channels.
Sigmatic said it, with the subversion remark. The point is to go on the ride for a while, and know when to subvert it and jump out.
Like, I could read up about (say,) anarchism (which I am not really a fan of), and focus on all the good bits. Let anarchism sell itself to me a littlebit.
But do you really think, that after having found Discordianism, it would not start to smell like rotten fish (or poop) to me after a while? And I would be all "ahhh yeah, anarchism, been there done that". But then I wouldnt say it sucks, or it is synonymous to "being retarded" [as some people try to define it here], I'd say it's got some good ideas as well as some flaws.
That's the thing with ideologies, just because they have flaws doesn't mean you need to dump them entirely.
Similarly, just because ideologies have good ideas, doesn't mean you need to follow them religiously.
And frankly, being Discordian means to me, doing
both those prev statements right. Not just the latter.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
seems to me you're looking really really hard to dismiss people.
Some people. If you think that's what this is all about, then fuck off.
Find yourself some other sucker to be the villian, okay? I'm not interested in the job.
oh PLEASE get over yourself.
read the entire post. most of it is not directed at you in particular.
and not entirely agreeing with the OP in a thread you started is NOT the same as casting you as a villain.
wait actually no fuck that.
you're just doing it again, proving my point.
except in this case I'm arguing against one thing in the middle of a very big post, and you try to stretch this to me casting you as a villain.
apparently you don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 09:30:44 PM
oh PLEASE get over yourself.
read the entire post. most of it is not directed at you in particular.
and not entirely agreeing with the OP in a thread you started is NOT the same as casting you as a villain.
Taken in context with other recent posts of yours, that's how I'm interpreting it...After all, if you can cast posts of mine a certain way without regard to accuracy - and you have, just the other day - I have every right to do it right back to you.
Find someone else to try to brow-beat. I'm really not interested.
Okay for now,
Dok
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 09:33:30 PM
wait actually no fuck that.
you're just doing it again, proving my point.
except in this case I'm arguing against one thing in the middle of a very big post, and you try to stretch this to me casting you as a villain.
apparently you don't think there is anything wrong with that.
You cast me as a villian in the Grant Morrison thread, to such a degree that I am no longer interested in your point of view. If you have any further attacks you'd like to make, I'd appreciate it if you'd move it to the Open Bar. I was enjoying this thread.
Bullshit. You're overreacting.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
Bullshit. You're overreacting.
I am?
To make a long story short, this:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=24993.79
...Is why I won't be arguing in any more ideology threads. You can idolize Grant Morrison all you like without my interference. Worship him all you please, I will leave you alone. Same goes for anarchy threads, Libertarianism, you fucking name it. It's all yours. This should make you happy.
That being said, leave me the fuck alone. Take out whatever the hell is wrong with you on someone else.
Oh I know what you're talking about. I was busy writing you a reply to the PM I got a few days ago but I haven't gotten around to finishing it yet.
I just think you're overreacting, that's all.
Because I was criticizing you (and others, but you ignore that, I suppose) which is not the same as casting you as a villain. That would be overreacting.
And I see the thread title says supervillain now, I don't think there's much debate about whether you are "overreacting" anymore.
Also the first post ITT is actually on-topic, if perhaps a bit critical about the OP [edit: of the thread this was split from]. I don't think it is okay to start splitting off posts that are on topic yet critical about the OP. You can leave this one, I don't care it's not worth the effort. I'm just saying. That is really not okay, don't do it again.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:05:43 PM
Oh I know what you're talking about. I was busy writing you a reply to the PM I got a few days ago but I haven't gotten around to finishing it yet.
I just think you're overreacting, that's all.
Because I was criticizing you (and others, but you ignore that, I suppose) which is not the same as casting you as a villain. That would be overreacting.
And I see the thread title says supervillain now, I don't think there's much debate about whether you are "overreacting" anymore.
Also the first post ITT is actually on-topic, if perhaps a bit critical about the OP. I don't think it is okay to start splitting off posts that are on topic yet critical about the OP. You can leave this one, I don't care it's not worth the effort. I'm just saying. That is really not okay, don't do it again.
No, Trip, I brought up 4 concerns with Morrison's speech. You then hollered at me for - at the same time - finding four things wrong, and, oddly enough "picking at one thing". (This would have all been much easier if someone had mentioned that a comic book artist is sacred and cannot be critiqued.) Then you used me as an example of why PD is still sick. Then you spagged up my thread, even though I said I was going to stay out of your stuff.
And you seem to have a very elastic standard as to when things can and cannot be split. Kind of reeks of hypocrisy, because you were all about doing it when Nigel criticized alignment charts
in an alignment chart thread...the VERY FUCKING SAME STANDARD YOU ARE TELLING ME I CANNOT USE.
So, yeah, it IS okay, by YOUR OWN STANDARDS.
Or are you somehow privileged?
Also, if I'm going to be a villain, I'm going to be a supervillain. That's my perogative. You aren't the boss of me.
The Morrisson thread had by then jacked into a discussion about overpopulation. That was not only your fault, but others as well. Unfortunately the English language lacks a plural form of "you" [except in some dialects]. That could have been more clear. Or you could have, you know, asked.
It's the bit where you call it a "good conversation", while if it happens to your own threads you flip out and threaten to never write anything again, where I was addressing you personally.
The bit about PD being sick, is we're all trying to make it better, and apparently not even the people that point out what is wrong are immune for doing those wrongs themselves. As you just said, an example, which rules out being the villain.
About you smelling hypocrisy.
The alignment chart thread was meant for posting alignment charts, not discussing whether they were stupid or not.
That is why we split it. Because a pages long discussion about whether alignment charts are stupid kind of fucks up a thread that is intended for posting pictures of alignment charts.
Following that logic, your thread must have been about "things that agree with the OP", in which case, why don't you split of Vene and Kai and Sigmatic's posts too?
That's the thing. I agree that the whole discussion about you being a villain or not is completely off-topic to that thread. But you brought that up first, just saying you should have split it one post later, because my post was on-topic unless criticism is not allowed in your thread.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
The Morrisson thread had by then jacked into a discussion about overpopulation. That was not only your fault, but others as well. Unfortunately the English language lacks a plural form of "you" [except in some dialects]. That could have been more clear. Or you could have, you know, asked.
Okay, so because a comic book artist guru says we're in the "victory lap", we can ignore the fact that there's 6.75 Bn of us crowding the inside lane.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
It's the bit where you call it a "good conversation", while if it happens to your own threads you flip out and threaten to never write anything again, where I was addressing you personally.
I'm still writing. I'm just being more choosy about where. I don't want to poop on any sacred cows. Makes the natives restless.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
The bit about PD being sick, is we're all trying to make it better, and apparently not even the people that point out what is wrong are immune for doing those wrongs themselves. As you just said, an example, which rules out being the villain.
That's not how it read. You ranted some weird contradictory shit at me, and then asked why PD.com was still sick. I might have been born in the dark, but it wasn't last night.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
About you smelling hypocrisy.
The alignment chart thread was meant for posting alignment charts, not discussing whether they were stupid or not.
Oh, okay. So SOMETIMES the rules apply, and sometimes they DON'T, and you are the sole arbiter of when this happens.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That is why we split it. Because a pages long discussion about whether alignment charts are stupid kind of fucks up a thread that is intended for posting pictures of alignment charts.
Odd. The title you guys gave the thread didn't imply anything like that. It was more a personal insult, IIRC.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
Following that logic, your thread must have been about "things that agree with the OP", in which case, why don't you split of Vene and Kai and Sigmatic's posts too?
No, they were legitimately taking part in the conversation. You dropped by to attack me again.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That's the thing. I agree that the whole discussion about you being a villain or not is completely off-topic to that thread. But you brought that up first, just saying you should have split it one post later, because my post was on-topic unless criticism is not allowed in your thread.
I don't see why you guys get to split threads all over the place on a whim, but now there's suddenly
rules. This was part of my fucking thread. I split it when a shit-stirrer showed up, same as I'd split anyone's thread if they asked.
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
I don't see what the big deal is. At least he didn't name the thread something personally insulting to you, eh?
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
There isn't always a difference. I think it mostly concerns whether or not you have a secret base.
Nigel has a point.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
There isn't always a difference. I think it mostly concerns whether or not you have a secret base.
Is that old bunker yours?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 10:44:48 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. At least he didn't name the thread something personally insulting to you, eh?
Well, that's different. For reasons that do not concern you or I.
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
Supervillian pays better.
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
Supervillian pays better.
But just try getting insurance. :argh!:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:47:27 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
Supervillian pays better.
But just try getting insurance. :argh!:
A real mad scientist isn't in it for money, anyway. It's all about
DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE!!!!!!!
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:54:16 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:47:27 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:46:17 PM
Quote from: Pēleus on May 03, 2010, 10:42:16 PM
what the difference between a supervillian and a mad scientist?
Supervillian pays better.
But just try getting insurance. :argh!:
A real mad scientist isn't in it for money, anyway. It's all about
DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE!!!!!!!
or
Quote from: Dr Horrible"It's not about MAKING money, it's about TAKING money."
A little off topic, but that's why I liked the character of the Joker in The Dark Knight. Crazy muther-fucker burns his share of the money...
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
I don't see how the Alignment Chart thread fiasco is at all on par with this. If that were the case, the thread would have been split when Nigel offered her completely legitimate point that she doesn't get alignment charts because they're pop culture references. It stayed in tact following that, and if any part of these two situations is similar it's that the post I'm referencing and Trip's were pretty on topic.
The other thread was split after shitting continued to happen, not when dissent came about.
Trip, I think you need to recognize your reaction in the Grant Morrison thread was completely uncalled for. You singled out Dok, shat over people who, believe it or not, were engaged in a reasonable discussion (before the people=monkey thing went down). It might not have been where you or Cram wanted it to go, but drift is pretty natural and is fixed without too much effort.
Dok, this branched off of a good piece. You spent a few pages defending said piece, and if anything Trip's post was a critique that got mired in your recent issues with him. I don't dictate your actions, obviously, but I think your meaning could only be strengthened by answering to his criticism.
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
But I am the sickness that is corrupting PD.
:hammer:
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
Dirigible... or BICYCLE? :tinfoilhat:
Quote from: EoC on May 03, 2010, 11:09:15 PM
I don't see how the Alignment Chart thread fiasco is at all on par with this. If that were the case, the thread would have been split when Nigel offered her completely legitimate point that she doesn't get alignment charts because they're pop culture references. It stayed in tact following that, and if any part of these two situations is similar it's that the post I'm referencing and Trip's were pretty on topic.
The other thread was split after shitting continued to happen, not when dissent came about.
Trip, I think you need to recognize your reaction in the Grant Morrison thread was completely uncalled for. You singled out Dok, shat over people who, believe it or not, were engaged in a reasonable discussion (before the people=monkey thing went down). It might not have been where you or Cram wanted it to go, but drift is pretty natural and is fixed without too much effort.
Dok, this branched off of a good piece. You spent a few pages defending said piece, and if anything Trip's post was a critique that got mired in your recent issues with him. I don't dictate your actions, obviously, but I think your meaning could only be strengthened by answering to his criticism.
I am merely responding to him in the manner in which he prefers to communicate, EOC.
And I do not feel the need to respond to a post stating that I am "disposing of a lot of people", when that had nothing to do with what I was saying. It was an attack, not a critique. At least, that's how it looks from where I sit, given prior events.
Also, the thread split was a direct parallel. In both cases, the topic was being addressed, and was split anyway. The only difference is that I didn't work a personal insult into the new title.
ETA: I think my mistake was disagreeing with Grant Morrison, who is infallible. Either that, or something more sinister is going on. I prefer to believe the former.
Well, Dok, why do you insist on disagreeing with infallible people and kissing terrorists?
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:16:42 PM
Well, Dok, why do you insist on disagreeing with infallible people and kissing terrorists?
Because I'm a bad guy. We do that shit.
Ask me why. Go ahead.
I'm actually not totally clear on who Grant Morrison is.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 11:19:35 PM
I'm actually not totally clear on who Grant Morrison is.
He wrote some comic books.
This qualifies him as an unimpeachable source on futurism.
Oddly enough, I just published my first comic.
BOW BEFORE ME, MORTALS!
Crap. I thought this thread would involve pictures of Dok pointing a death ray at Earth from a base on the moon, and similar hi-jinks.
Still, think Dok's right on this one. The conversation in the Grant Morrison thread seemed to be just that, a conversation. No one seemed to be attacking anyone else.
...as a personal request, could someone create that picture I described. I'd do it, but I'm shit using photo-shop or paint shop pro.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:17:53 PM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:16:42 PM
Well, Dok, why do you insist on disagreeing with infallible people and kissing terrorists?
Because I'm a bad guy. We do that shit.
Ask me why. Go ahead.
Why?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
Dirigible... or BICYCLE? :tinfoilhat:
I give you: Dirigibicycle
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible.jpg)
And, I found THIS!
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible2.jpg)
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:26:30 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
Dirigible... or BICYCLE? :tinfoilhat:
I give you: Dirigibicycle
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible.jpg)
OMG. Everything just changed forever.
Quote
And, I found THIS!
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible2.jpg)
:fap:
Quote(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible.jpg)
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible2.jpg)
Okay, this works. Thanks.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:37:19 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That is why we split it. Because a pages long discussion about whether alignment charts are stupid kind of fucks up a thread that is intended for posting pictures of alignment charts.
Odd. The title you guys gave the thread didn't imply anything like that. It was more a personal insult, IIRC.
There was no we, it was I.
I split off her posts on my own, I named it
"Re: New Forum Rule: Don't post about any Hobbies that Nigel doesn't share".
That "personal insult", was me choosing a title reflecting the content of the thread which started at the point of nigels comments about alignment threads.
In retrospect it was dismissive and condescending yes, but did I intend it as an insult? No.
I don't care if Nigel was personally insulted by that title but that's not why I took the time to post this, but I won't be lied about or have the events change somehow when I am not here to defend myself.
My mistake in that thread was splitting it off without checking with other people, 000 was not involved. My mistake was not in the name I gave the thread but splitting it, one I hold myself accountable for.
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:17:53 PM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:16:42 PM
Well, Dok, why do you insist on disagreeing with infallible people and kissing terrorists?
Because I'm a bad guy. We do that shit.
Ask me why. Go ahead.
Why?
FOR SCIENCE!\
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss131/neosanguis/P1010112.jpg)
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:26:30 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 03, 2010, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:08:40 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
A little off topic,
Yes, that's off topic. This thread is about what a jerk I am.
We're all jerks on this dirigible.
Dirigible... or BICYCLE? :tinfoilhat:
I give you: Dirigibicycle
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible.jpg)
And, I found THIS!
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible2.jpg)
I just messed up my pance.
Quote from: dimo on May 03, 2010, 11:26:30 PM
(http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac28/dimo1138/dirigible.jpg)
I like to reffer to this one as "The Flying Bi-pedal Titty."
Quote from: Faust on May 04, 2010, 12:38:31 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:37:19 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That is why we split it. Because a pages long discussion about whether alignment charts are stupid kind of fucks up a thread that is intended for posting pictures of alignment charts.
Odd. The title you guys gave the thread didn't imply anything like that. It was more a personal insult, IIRC.
There was no we, it was I.
I split off her posts on my own, I named it
"Re: New Forum Rule: Don't post about any Hobbies that Nigel doesn't share".
That "personal insult", was me choosing a title reflecting the content of the thread which started at the point of nigels comments about alignment threads.
In retrospect it was dismissive and condescending yes, but did I intend it as an insult? No.
I don't care if Nigel was personally insulted by that title but that's not why I took the time to post this, but I won't be lied about or have the events change somehow when I am not here to defend myself.
My mistake in that thread was splitting it off without checking with other people, 000 was not involved. My mistake was not in the name I gave the thread but splitting it, one I hold myself accountable for.
That move smells a lot like a MW move Faust. Glad you took responsibility though.
Quote from: Hawk on May 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM
Glad you took responsibility though.
Thank you
Quote from: Hawk on May 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM
That move smells a lot like a MW move Faust.
And go fuck yourself.
Quote from: Faust on May 04, 2010, 04:06:20 PM
Quote from: Hawk on May 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM
Glad you took responsibility though.
Thank you
Quote from: Hawk on May 04, 2010, 04:01:02 PM
That move smells a lot like a MW move Faust.
And go fuck yourself.
On a regular basis, but thanks for your permission.
The great thing about us fighting is that no matter how it goes, The Machine™ wins.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 04:37:28 PM
The great thing about us fighting is that no matter how it goes, The Machine™ wins.
I wasn't fighting, I was stating an opinion.
And I wasn't fighting, I just wasn't going to let a remark as stupid as comparing what happened here to mystic wicks go by without address.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 01:34:49 AM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:24:43 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 11:17:53 PM
Quote from: Professor Freeky on May 03, 2010, 11:16:42 PM
Well, Dok, why do you insist on disagreeing with infallible people and kissing terrorists?
Because I'm a bad guy. We do that shit.
Ask me why. Go ahead.
Why?
FOR SCIENCE!
\
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss131/neosanguis/P1010112.jpg)
I have a strong urge to made a 3d model of this shot (Dok, goggles, cleaver) so I can add the large laser pointing at the earth in the background (and tesla style arc-lighting all the fuck over the place). I'm doing a head study in class now (on of the other students) so I should have all the knowledge necessary in a month or two.
STAY TUNED TO THIS SUPER-VILLAIN CHANNEL
Woot. :lulz:
While not the most diplomatically phrased, there is a point to this thread.
Before I grew a pair and stopped taking personal attacks quite so seriously, I really didn't know what to do with PD. It seemed like a place concerned with the same sorts of issues and ideas I was concerned with, but I just couldn't get any acknowledgment--unless I said something careless, at which point someone invariably showed up to pounce on my poor judgment.
Maybe it's because there have been so many crackpot preacher-types wandering through here, but there's some serious emotional scar tissue on our body politic. Plus, while many boards have their hazings, here they tend to be more extreme. We might tell ourselves we're just joking around, but how is a stranger to these boards to know?
Add to that the fact that we're not so well-adjusted ourselves. Those who are super-conciliatory and those who can take a ton of abuse are the ones who end up staying.
We all know the warning signs of an obnoxious n00b...pinealism, accusing others of not being "really real" Discordians, etc. Tolerance here is only a hair's-breadth away from conflict. We can see it with the most senior members of the board as well--intense arguing that still breaks out periodically. It's not that argumentation is bad, but...Agree or disagree, we should at least listen to each other.
Trolling ourselves is not going to raise the level of discourse here unless everyone involved knows how to handle it.
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
While not the most diplomatically phrased, there is a point to this thread.
Before I grew a pair and stopped taking personal attacks quite so seriously, I really didn't know what to do with PD. It seemed like a place concerned with the same sorts of issues and ideas I was concerned with, but I just couldn't get any acknowledgment--unless I said something careless, at which point someone invariably showed up to pounce on my poor judgment.
Maybe it's because there have been so many crackpot preacher-types wandering through here, but there's some serious emotional scar tissue on our body politic. Plus, while many boards have their hazings, here they tend to be more extreme. We might tell ourselves we're just joking around, but how is a stranger to these boards to know?
Add to that the fact that we're not so well-adjusted ourselves. Those who are super-conciliatory and those who can take a ton of abuse are the ones who end up staying.
We all know the warning signs of an obnoxious n00b...pinealism, accusing others of not being "really real" Discordians, etc. Tolerance here is only a hair's-breadth away from conflict. We can see it with the most senior members of the board as well--intense arguing that still breaks out periodically. It's not that argumentation is bad, but...Agree or disagree, we should at least listen to each other.
Trolling ourselves is not going to raise the level of discourse here unless everyone involved knows how to handle it.
Your appeal for rationality has been duly noted.
Now back to why Roger is the reason this board is sick.
Uuuum... I'll take "Orbital Mind LAZORZ" for 800 Alex.
Quote from: Telarus on May 04, 2010, 07:40:42 PM
Uuuum... I'll take "Orbital Mind LAZORZ" for 800 Alex.
I honestly don't know what it is. Every AKK clone that comes through here fixates on me, and every time there's a problem with the board, I seem to be the one to blame...First Cramulus puts me on permanent ignore for reasons he's never explained, now Trip has decided I'm the one responsible for everything that's gone wrong over the last six months.
When people you respect suddenly shit all over you, you sort of feel stunned for a little while, then you try to figure out what you might have done to anger people. When it turns out that you can't figure it out, and the people in question won't say what it is, you kind of have to write them off.
It is unrewarding to hold in high esteem people who hold you in contempt, know what I mean?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
First Cramulus puts me on permanent ignore for reasons he's never explained
what? I did not get this memo
Quote from: Cramulus on May 04, 2010, 07:57:06 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
First Cramulus puts me on permanent ignore for reasons he's never explained
what? I did not get this memo
Perhaps I am mistaken. It seems that way, though. Has for about a year.
I don't know what to say man, except that I'm not ignoring you? :?
mea culpa if it's coming off that way
Quote from: Cramulus on May 04, 2010, 08:00:46 PM
I don't know what to say man, except that I'm not ignoring you? :?
mea culpa if it's coming off that way
Maybe it's just my inherent paranoia. Check PMs in a minute or two.
I'm going to ignore you, you trouble making bastich!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
While not the most diplomatically phrased, there is a point to this thread.
Before I grew a pair and stopped taking personal attacks quite so seriously, I really didn't know what to do with PD. It seemed like a place concerned with the same sorts of issues and ideas I was concerned with, but I just couldn't get any acknowledgment--unless I said something careless, at which point someone invariably showed up to pounce on my poor judgment.
Maybe it's because there have been so many crackpot preacher-types wandering through here, but there's some serious emotional scar tissue on our body politic. Plus, while many boards have their hazings, here they tend to be more extreme. We might tell ourselves we're just joking around, but how is a stranger to these boards to know?
Add to that the fact that we're not so well-adjusted ourselves. Those who are super-conciliatory and those who can take a ton of abuse are the ones who end up staying.
We all know the warning signs of an obnoxious n00b...pinealism, accusing others of not being "really real" Discordians, etc. Tolerance here is only a hair's-breadth away from conflict. We can see it with the most senior members of the board as well--intense arguing that still breaks out periodically. It's not that argumentation is bad, but...Agree or disagree, we should at least listen to each other.
Trolling ourselves is not going to raise the level of discourse here unless everyone involved knows how to handle it.
Your appeal for rationality has been duly noted.
Now back to why Roger is the reason this board is sick.
:lulz: Very well.
[no srsly]
You're a funny guy, Rog, and it makes being a member of this site a lot of fun. However, part of that humor involves a brushing aside of rationality, and using it to browbeat anyone who crosses you. This only encourages n00bs to behave self-righteously, leading to spectacular conflicts with violent endings. What if we just ignored the ones who said stupid shit and encouraged the ones with good material to contribute?
[/no srsly]
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
What if we just ignored the ones who said stupid shit and encouraged the ones with good material to contribute?
We actually tried that, not so long ago.
The effect was not unsimilar to "ignoring" mosquitos on a hot summer night: They don't stop buzzing just because you've stopped swatting them.
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
While not the most diplomatically phrased, there is a point to this thread.
Before I grew a pair and stopped taking personal attacks quite so seriously, I really didn't know what to do with PD. It seemed like a place concerned with the same sorts of issues and ideas I was concerned with, but I just couldn't get any acknowledgment--unless I said something careless, at which point someone invariably showed up to pounce on my poor judgment.
Maybe it's because there have been so many crackpot preacher-types wandering through here, but there's some serious emotional scar tissue on our body politic. Plus, while many boards have their hazings, here they tend to be more extreme. We might tell ourselves we're just joking around, but how is a stranger to these boards to know?
Add to that the fact that we're not so well-adjusted ourselves. Those who are super-conciliatory and those who can take a ton of abuse are the ones who end up staying.
We all know the warning signs of an obnoxious n00b...pinealism, accusing others of not being "really real" Discordians, etc. Tolerance here is only a hair's-breadth away from conflict. We can see it with the most senior members of the board as well--intense arguing that still breaks out periodically. It's not that argumentation is bad, but...Agree or disagree, we should at least listen to each other.
Trolling ourselves is not going to raise the level of discourse here unless everyone involved knows how to handle it.
Your appeal for rationality has been duly noted.
Now back to why Roger is the reason this board is sick.
:lulz: Very well.
[no srsly]
You're a funny guy, Rog, and it makes being a member of this site a lot of fun. However, part of that humor involves a brushing aside of rationality, and using it to browbeat anyone who crosses you. This only encourages n00bs to behave self-righteously, leading to spectacular conflicts with violent endings. What if we just ignored the ones who said stupid shit and encouraged the ones with good material to contribute?
[/no srsly]
Most noobs don't catch any shit at all from me. Pix, Richter, Suu, Cram, yourself...none of you caught a ration of shit from me when you started, because you posted intelligently and didn't run from one thread to another screeching about how we're all doing it wrong.
As for the noobs like AKK, Cowass, etc, I am occasionally berated by others for jumping down the throats of these types, and I stop, and ignore them, whereupon they spag up every thread on the board. Within days, the very people who demanded that I stop ask me to start again.
However, your point is well taken. I will cease harrassing the noobs, beginning with Weltburger.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:28:13 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 07:32:21 PM
While not the most diplomatically phrased, there is a point to this thread.
Before I grew a pair and stopped taking personal attacks quite so seriously, I really didn't know what to do with PD. It seemed like a place concerned with the same sorts of issues and ideas I was concerned with, but I just couldn't get any acknowledgment--unless I said something careless, at which point someone invariably showed up to pounce on my poor judgment.
Maybe it's because there have been so many crackpot preacher-types wandering through here, but there's some serious emotional scar tissue on our body politic. Plus, while many boards have their hazings, here they tend to be more extreme. We might tell ourselves we're just joking around, but how is a stranger to these boards to know?
Add to that the fact that we're not so well-adjusted ourselves. Those who are super-conciliatory and those who can take a ton of abuse are the ones who end up staying.
We all know the warning signs of an obnoxious n00b...pinealism, accusing others of not being "really real" Discordians, etc. Tolerance here is only a hair's-breadth away from conflict. We can see it with the most senior members of the board as well--intense arguing that still breaks out periodically. It's not that argumentation is bad, but...Agree or disagree, we should at least listen to each other.
Trolling ourselves is not going to raise the level of discourse here unless everyone involved knows how to handle it.
Your appeal for rationality has been duly noted.
Now back to why Roger is the reason this board is sick.
:lulz: Very well.
[no srsly]
You're a funny guy, Rog, and it makes being a member of this site a lot of fun. However, part of that humor involves a brushing aside of rationality, and using it to browbeat anyone who crosses you. This only encourages n00bs to behave self-righteously, leading to spectacular conflicts with violent endings. What if we just ignored the ones who said stupid shit and encouraged the ones with good material to contribute?
[/no srsly]
Most noobs don't catch any shit at all from me. Pix, Richter, Suu, Cram, yourself...none of you caught a ration of shit from me when you started, because you posted intelligently and didn't run from one thread to another screeching about how we're all doing it wrong.
As for the noobs like AKK, Cowass, etc, I am occasionally berated by others for jumping down the throats of these types, and I stop, and ignore them, whereupon they spag up every thread on the board. Within days, the very people who demanded that I stop ask me to start again.
However, your point is well taken. I will cease harrassing the noobs, beginning with Weltburger.
I on the other hand...........
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on May 04, 2010, 08:00:46 PM
I don't know what to say man, except that I'm not ignoring you? :?
mea culpa if it's coming off that way
Maybe it's just my inherent paranoia. Check PMs in a minute or two.
Apparently just paranoia. I retract my inclusion of Cramulus in that statement.
Sorry, Cram.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
Every AKK clone that comes through here fixates on me,
Well Dok, I think it's like this:
You are a forthright, outspoken person who likes to get to the point (all of which are fine qualities). When AKK types prance through the forum, you call people out when they allow their higher functions to be submerged in LOLFNORDPINEALGLANDROFL or when their fevered egos take a bull's eye hit and they're reeling from indignation.(Wahh...a man on the internet criticized my cherished belief system!)
Of course, you're probably expecting them to engage you in a debate or at least, show some balls & some rigour. But, what typically happens, is that they consider your e-scalp to be a holy grail or a golden fleece. That's when they dig in because they think that if they could only 'take down Dok H' then all will be right in the world and their behaviours, beliefs etc become valid.
Because the vast majority of people on PD are in unified in the belief that 'outlandishness' is a total waste of time, the AKKspags and their ilk mistake this for 'PD being under the control of Dok'. Which of course, leads to the almost inevitable 'liberation complex'. This is when the resistance to you goes from being a personal issue (I must avenge!) to being 'if I take down Dok, then all the rest of the posters will be free of his influence.' I guess they think they're in downtown Bagdad, pulling down a statue or something.
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
What I think happens is simply that you are secure in who you are, what you believe and are perfectly comfortable with expressing same. Many people are not like that and when they encounter it they seem to flip the hell out resulting in 50+ page, retitled 'unlimited X' threads.
But it isn't
you. It's on them and how they choose to respond.
[I think the point has been made before, but I think the drama with AKK or Lamanite or any of the other spectacularly folkloric retards we've had here is simply PDcom's immune response.]
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
We've done this, but - as noted above - we're doing it again. Science is all about repeatability.
Especially given Brotep's apparent hypothesis that I somehow force people to act like brainless weasels.
We shall see. I have already demonstrated what happens when I get involved, so now I will stop (outside of the usual admin responsibilities, etc), and we will see what happens.
Beware. The christians tried that with the romans. Lions were well fed.
Quote from: Hawk on May 04, 2010, 08:51:21 PM
Beware. The christians tried that with the romans. Lions were well fed.
Yeah, but I'm not to worried about it. It's the internet.
Plus, if the spags in question come after me despite my leaving them alone, then all bets are off.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
We've done this, but - as noted above - we're doing it again. Science is all about repeatability.
Especially given Brotep's apparent hypothesis that I somehow force people to act like brainless weasels.
We shall see. I have already demonstrated what happens when I get involved, so now I will stop (outside of the usual admin responsibilities, etc), and we will see what happens.
Ok. (Though I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed spagging up the Frequently Asked Questions with you, Nigel & others. That needed doing & I hope the vacuous broad won't feel like posting again for a while)
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
We've done this, but - as noted above - we're doing it again. Science is all about repeatability.
Especially given Brotep's apparent hypothesis that I somehow force people to act like brainless weasels.
We shall see. I have already demonstrated what happens when I get involved, so now I will stop (outside of the usual admin responsibilities, etc), and we will see what happens.
Ok. (Though I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed spagging up the Frequently Asked Questions with you, Nigel & others. That needed doing & I hope the vacuous broad won't feel like posting again for a while)
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
True.
At this juncture, I would like to re-suggest a sub forum called 'The Gibbet' in which all classic n00b fail threads are archived in a prominent places as a warning to future incursions by the Really Reals.
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:59:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
True.
At this juncture, I would like to re-suggest a sub forum called 'The Gibbet' in which all classic n00b fail threads are archived in a prominent places as a warning to future incursions by the Really Reals.
If they won't read an "advice for noobs" thread, they won't listen to that, either. Or they'll read it, and decide that it doesn't apply to THEM, because their zaniness is SPECIAL.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:59:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
True.
At this juncture, I would like to re-suggest a sub forum called 'The Gibbet' in which all classic n00b fail threads are archived in a prominent places as a warning to future incursions by the Really Reals.
If they won't read an "advice for noobs" thread, they won't listen to that, either. Or they'll read it, and decide that it doesn't apply to THEM, because their zaniness is SPECIAL.
Maybe it's for our own idle & morbid curiosities? Think of it as a repository of folklore.
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:59:39 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
True.
At this juncture, I would like to re-suggest a sub forum called 'The Gibbet' in which all classic n00b fail threads are archived in a prominent places as a warning to future incursions by the Really Reals.
If they won't read an "advice for noobs" thread, they won't listen to that, either. Or they'll read it, and decide that it doesn't apply to THEM, because their zaniness is SPECIAL.
Maybe it's for our own idle & morbid curiosities? Think of it as a repository of folklore.
I'd be all for that. We'd have to go all the way back to Tyler, and work our way forward to Weltburger.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
We've done this, but - as noted above - we're doing it again. Science is all about repeatability.
Especially given Brotep's apparent hypothesis that I somehow force people to act like brainless weasels.
We shall see. I have already demonstrated what happens when I get involved, so now I will stop (outside of the usual admin responsibilities, etc), and we will see what happens.
Ok. (Though I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed spagging up the Frequently Asked Questions with you, Nigel & others. That needed doing & I hope the vacuous broad won't feel like posting again for a while)
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
Tea out my nose, there. :lulz:
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:56:08 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 08:48:55 PM
Quote from: Mangrove on May 04, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
In the interest of science, may I suggest the following experiment? The next time a n00b sashays in and runs through the usual idiotic script - DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN ANY WAY. Now, no matter how much this makes your brain explode, no matter how much it loosens your bowels, you must NOT respond. Observe reactions. This is the experimental control.
Then, stage II of the trial is to respond to pinealist idiocy as you normally are inclined. Observe reactions. Compare with control. Perhaps repeat this A vs B a few times to get a wider statistical sample of n00b.
We've done this, but - as noted above - we're doing it again. Science is all about repeatability.
Especially given Brotep's apparent hypothesis that I somehow force people to act like brainless weasels.
We shall see. I have already demonstrated what happens when I get involved, so now I will stop (outside of the usual admin responsibilities, etc), and we will see what happens.
Ok. (Though I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed spagging up the Frequently Asked Questions with you, Nigel & others. That needed doing & I hope the vacuous broad won't feel like posting again for a while)
She isn't a noob, she's an amusement park ride.
Tea out my nose, there. :lulz:
Sorry about that. :lol:
I just want to go on record saying that some n00bs (I suppose I can really only speak for myself here) want, need, and appreciate when we or one of our ideas gets ripped to shreds by a senior (or more established) member. It helps to redifine whatever it was you were trying to assert, or realize that it might be an idea worth abandoning. Man, I'd be the biggest idiot here if it weren't for some of you guys ripping my shit apart. Hell, a lot of you are now a part of my "inner dialogue," which helps me refrain from doing stupid shit IRL. "Before I do/say this, how would Dok/Nigel/LMNO/000/Cram/Cain. react to this."
Quote from: dimo on May 04, 2010, 09:36:59 PM
I just want to go on record saying that some n00bs (I suppose I can really only speak for myself here) want, need, and appreciate when we or one of our ideas gets ripped to shreds by a senior (or more established) member. It helps to redifine whatever it was you were trying to assert, or realize that it might be an idea worth abandoning. Man, I'd be the biggest idiot here if it weren't for some of you guys ripping my shit apart. Hell, a lot of you are now a part of my "inner dialogue," which helps me refrain from doing stupid shit IRL. "Before I do/say this, how would Dok/Nigel/LMNO/000/Cram/Cain. react to this."
Thanks. But SCIENCE has intervened, and we have to do this.
We have gotten several excellent newbs, lately, who seem to have simply done the reasonable thing and said, "Hmmm, would I have fun here?" (read a bit) "Yes, I think I would!" and then proceeded to get along perfectly well.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
We have gotten several excellent news, lately, who seem to have simply done the reasonable thing and said, "Hmmm, would I have fun here?" (read a bit) "Yes, I think I would!" and then proceeded to get along perfectly well.
Sure, and there's been a few that had rocky starts, but then recovered.
Because, presumably, I didn't get to them fast enough to MAKE THEM INTO MONSTERS! MUHAHAHA!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
We have gotten several excellent news, lately, who seem to have simply done the reasonable thing and said, "Hmmm, would I have fun here?" (read a bit) "Yes, I think I would!" and then proceeded to get along perfectly well.
Sure, and there's been a few that had rocky starts, but then recovered.
Both good, yes.
And you could argue pretty convincingly that such is the case for most of the membership here, it's just that we notice spectacular fail because it is spectacular.
QuoteBecause, presumably, I didn't get to them fast enough to MAKE THEM INTO MONSTERS! MUHAHAHA!
:lulz: That is, of course, exactly the issue and not an oversimplification of the following point:
People who act stupid will take any excuse to act stupid. For example, new people who think they have something to say and develop persecution complexes.
The question is, what is our goal? Do we want fluff posting to cease entirely, or are we okay with it as long as it doesn't fuck with good discussion? For me, it's the latter.
If we respond to fluff posted in the appropriate places with diplomacy and wit, completely ignoring it where it is not appropriate to post,
AH BULEEVE WE CAN BUILD A BETTER PEEDEE DOT COM--TOGETHER
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 10:00:28 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
We have gotten several excellent news, lately, who seem to have simply done the reasonable thing and said, "Hmmm, would I have fun here?" (read a bit) "Yes, I think I would!" and then proceeded to get along perfectly well.
Sure, and there's been a few that had rocky starts, but then recovered.
Both good, yes.
And you could argue pretty convincingly that such is the case for most of the membership here, it's just that we notice spectacular fail because it is spectacular.
QuoteBecause, presumably, I didn't get to them fast enough to MAKE THEM INTO MONSTERS! MUHAHAHA!
:lulz: That is, of course, exactly the issue and not an oversimplification of the following point:
People who act stupid will take any excuse to act stupid. For example, new people who think they have something to say and develop persecution complexes.
The question is, what is our goal? Do we want fluff posting to cease entirely, or are we okay with it as long as it doesn't fuck with good discussion? For me, it's the latter.
If we respond to fluff posted in the appropriate places with diplomacy and wit, completely ignoring it where it is not appropriate to post,
AH BULEEVE WE CAN BUILD A BETTER PEEDEE DOT COM--TOGETHER
Bunch of wasted typing. I have already stated that I am out of the noob-bashing business. Also, I never said a fucking thing about fluff.
Dok,
Retired horrible tyrant.
Ah, see...You're doing it again--exaggerating what is said into something ridiculous so that you can dismiss it more easily.
You are a valuable member of this community, which is why I thought it worthwhile to attempt to discuss this. Take it as a sign of respect, rather than a sign of vilification.
Again, this isn't just about you--this is about all of us and how we handle trolls from within and without.
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 10:08:44 PM
Ah, see...You're doing it again--exaggerating what is said into something ridiculous so that you can dismiss it more easily.
Bullshit. You're the one who said I make the noobs act the way they do.
Fuck off now, please. Thanks.
And again, I didn't say SHIT about fluff. Asshole.
None of this has jack shit to do with fluff posting. Total strawman.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 10:19:49 PM
None of this has jack shit to do with fluff posting. Total strawman.
Made you say that. :lulz:
ULTIMATE POWER!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 10:21:14 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 04, 2010, 10:19:49 PM
None of this has jack shit to do with fluff posting. Total strawman.
Made you say that. :lulz:
ULTIMATE POWER!
(http://www.dio.net/pictures_cd/ultimate_power_ballads_us_front_big.jpg)
Shit yeah.
I am also responsible for glam bands!
And I thought I was evil for the male pattern baldness thing, and for inventing PMS.
I would say you are pretty much the opposite of the problem on this board, Roger. Without your presence it probably would have died a long time ago. Your content is solid, and very few people here are smarter than you.
I do, however, think you have a problem in dealing with people who don't agree with you. I am fully aware I am throwing myself under a bus for saying this, and certainly some Ayn Rand comment is going to pop up (since she does all my thinking for me), but I personally think its a problem that it seems to me like anyone who disagrees with you has to be painted as a purposefully evil person, rather than just mistaken. Obviously this observation doesn't fit all circumstances and categories, but it fits a lot of them.
This seemed to be something you were aware of, and I understood it to be the reason you 86'd the "TGRR" persona and started anew with Dok Howl, and I was very pleased to see this, but right now Dok Howl doesn't seem a lick different from TGRR, so what WAS the point of the switch?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 10:02:52 PM
Retired horrible tyrant.
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Sockydoodle/NOOOO.JPG)
(http://verynoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/omg-do-not-want.jpg)
Quote from: Hoopla on May 04, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
I would say you are pretty much the opposite of the problem on this board, Roger. Without your presence it probably would have died a long time ago. Your content is solid, and very few people here are smarter than you.
I do, however, think you have a problem in dealing with people who don't agree with you. I am fully aware I am throwing myself under a bus for saying this, and certainly some Ayn Rand comment is going to pop up (since she does all my thinking for me), but I personally think its a problem that it seems to me like anyone who disagrees with you has to be painted as a purposefully evil person, rather than just mistaken. Obviously this observation doesn't fit all circumstances and categories, but it fits a lot of them.
This seemed to be something you were aware of, and I understood it to be the reason you 86'd the "TGRR" persona and started anew with Dok Howl, and I was very pleased to see this, but right now Dok Howl doesn't seem a lick different from TGRR, so what WAS the point of the switch?
It's not that I have a problem with people that disagree with me, it's more that I tend to argue very forcefully, particularly when I feel that improper reasoning is being used. Put it this way: If your idea can get past me, it probably doesn't have too many holes in it. You may also notice that I tend to not do much of this arguing in B&B or Literature (the Morrison thread excepted), but almost exclusively in AT or AI.
And the reason for the switch, Hoops, was that before I was interested in trying to help the monkeys, hence the "reverend". Now I wish to see the whole world burn down. So it's more a difference of motivation than style.
And I'm sorry about the Rand thing. My blood was up, and I really shouldn't have said it...You didn't deserve that.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 04, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
I would say you are pretty much the opposite of the problem on this board, Roger. Without your presence it probably would have died a long time ago. Your content is solid, and very few people here are smarter than you.
I do, however, think you have a problem in dealing with people who don't agree with you. I am fully aware I am throwing myself under a bus for saying this, and certainly some Ayn Rand comment is going to pop up (since she does all my thinking for me), but I personally think its a problem that it seems to me like anyone who disagrees with you has to be painted as a purposefully evil person, rather than just mistaken. Obviously this observation doesn't fit all circumstances and categories, but it fits a lot of them.
This seemed to be something you were aware of, and I understood it to be the reason you 86'd the "TGRR" persona and started anew with Dok Howl, and I was very pleased to see this, but right now Dok Howl doesn't seem a lick different from TGRR, so what WAS the point of the switch?
It's not that I have a problem with people that disagree with me, it's more that I tend to argue very forcefully, particularly when I feel that improper reasoning is being used. Put it this way: If your idea can get past me, it probably doesn't have too many holes in it. You may also notice that I tend to not do much of this arguing in B&B or Literature (the Morrison thread excepted), but almost exclusively in AT or AI.
And the reason for the switch, Hoops, was that before I was interested in trying to help the monkeys, hence the "reverend". Now I wish to see the whole world burn down. So it's more a difference of motivation than style.
And I'm sorry about the Rand thing. My blood was up, and I really shouldn't have said it...You didn't deserve that.
S'ok, I've said some things I shouldn't have in my time.
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2010, 03:02:09 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 01:10:32 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 04, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
I would say you are pretty much the opposite of the problem on this board, Roger. Without your presence it probably would have died a long time ago. Your content is solid, and very few people here are smarter than you.
I do, however, think you have a problem in dealing with people who don't agree with you. I am fully aware I am throwing myself under a bus for saying this, and certainly some Ayn Rand comment is going to pop up (since she does all my thinking for me), but I personally think its a problem that it seems to me like anyone who disagrees with you has to be painted as a purposefully evil person, rather than just mistaken. Obviously this observation doesn't fit all circumstances and categories, but it fits a lot of them.
This seemed to be something you were aware of, and I understood it to be the reason you 86'd the "TGRR" persona and started anew with Dok Howl, and I was very pleased to see this, but right now Dok Howl doesn't seem a lick different from TGRR, so what WAS the point of the switch?
It's not that I have a problem with people that disagree with me, it's more that I tend to argue very forcefully, particularly when I feel that improper reasoning is being used. Put it this way: If your idea can get past me, it probably doesn't have too many holes in it. You may also notice that I tend to not do much of this arguing in B&B or Literature (the Morrison thread excepted), but almost exclusively in AT or AI.
And the reason for the switch, Hoops, was that before I was interested in trying to help the monkeys, hence the "reverend". Now I wish to see the whole world burn down. So it's more a difference of motivation than style.
And I'm sorry about the Rand thing. My blood was up, and I really shouldn't have said it...You didn't deserve that.
S'ok, I've said some things I shouldn't have in my time.
Good. I've had a bellyfull of this bickering.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 03, 2010, 10:37:19 PM
Okay, so because a comic book artist guru says we're in the "victory lap", we can ignore the fact that there's 6.75 Bn of us crowding the inside lane.
no. the entire overpopulation discussion had nothing to do with the OP. the argument was about whether overpopulation could be solved or not. which is only tangentially related to the video in the OP, which didn't even mention overpopulation.
if ONLY the discussion was actually about disagreeing with Morisson, that would've been great. but instead everybody was too busy talking about monsanto, crop science and irrational monkeys.
it's just what Cain said, same discussions over and over again. like overpopulation. like irrational monkeys. like those regurgitated US politics subjects that are so popular here. in fact like your Jim/Monkey thread too: Nigel summed up your entire post in one or two lines and you were like "This. For God's sake, THIS". It
was a really
good summary, but also something that had been said over and over and over again.
Hence my reply to your OP was about all the
other stuff you said, just like we don't go rehashing the Lo5 every time someone writes a piece that is related to it. But you could only see a reply like that as either an attack, "UNNNNN SEMANTICS" (Vene's monkey question) or both. Which of course makes any sort of communication incredibly tedious and inefficient, because people spend half the time either tip-toeing around you or clarifying they weren't attacking you instead of actually trying to have a discussion.
So if "we're in the victory lap" was the only thing you took from that video, then how is that different from Vene's "How can you be anything other than a monkey?" which made you go "arrg semantics and why the FUCK do I bother" ..
get it now?
that's what I was pointing out.
what if we would have taken Vene's question about monkeys literally and started talking about monkeys in the Jim/monkey thread? You would have hated that and proclaimed your thread ruined.
(btw Vene sorry for taking you as an example, you're the freshest one that comes to mind)
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
About you smelling hypocrisy.
The alignment chart thread was meant for posting alignment charts, not discussing whether they were stupid or not.
Oh, okay. So SOMETIMES the rules apply, and sometimes they DON'T, and you are the sole arbiter of when this happens.
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That is why we split it. Because a pages long discussion about whether alignment charts are stupid kind of fucks up a thread that is intended for posting pictures of alignment charts.
Odd. The title you guys gave the thread didn't imply anything like that. It was more a personal insult, IIRC.
"you guys"? so wait, let me get this straight.
I personally think the two situations are quite different, but you say that, for the rules, they are in fact the same.
Let's go with that for a moment.
Now you say, "you guys", implying you did not agree with splitting the alignment thread.
But you did split your own thread, in what you say is exactly the same situation.
I dunno, but logically that makes you the hypocrite.
At least I can argue that I was under the sincere impression the two situations were different. If the whole mod team agrees they are in fact the same, I will concede my point. In fact, if the two situations should be judged as exactly the same, I would argue the alignment thread should not have been split either.
But you DO believe the two situations should have been judged the same, yet YOU are the one treating them differently.
It's okay, we can fix that and talk about it (as soon as you stop interpreting everything I say to you as an attack) but don't just point your finger only at me.
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
Following that logic, your thread must have been about "things that agree with the OP", in which case, why don't you split of Vene and Kai and Sigmatic's posts too?
No, they were legitimately taking part in the conversation. You dropped by to attack me again.
I was replying to your posts. I had some feelings and thoughts about those posts and wrote them up. Too bad you split off the thread because else we could, you know, discuss them.
QuoteQuote from: Triple Zero on May 03, 2010, 10:31:12 PM
That's the thing. I agree that the whole discussion about you being a villain or not is completely off-topic to that thread. But you brought that up first, just saying you should have split it one post later, because my post was on-topic unless criticism is not allowed in your thread.
I don't see why you guys get to split threads all over the place on a whim, but now there's suddenly rules. This was part of my fucking thread. I split it when a shit-stirrer showed up, same as I'd split anyone's thread if they asked.
Really? People can request to split any thread they started, at any point they want, for any reason they want?
(since "being a shit-stirrer" is kind of a judgement call)
Okay, that's fine. If that's policy, you were right about splitting your thread, wherever you want it, for whatever perceived reason you want.
Not sure if I agree with the policy, but don't worry, I won't be the one that will childishly abuse it. I should however, probably take care not to post in threads started by people that are unable to see anything critical I write as anything other than an attack or shit-stirring, though.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
I honestly don't know what it is. Every AKK clone that comes through here fixates on me, and every time there's a problem with the board, I seem to be the one to blame...First Cramulus puts me on permanent ignore for reasons he's never explained, now Trip has decided I'm the one responsible for everything that's gone wrong over the last six months.
Hey, that might have been "how it read to you", but I think by now I clearly explained that I was NOT trying to single you out okay?
We had a big discussion about "what's wrong with PD" a while ago. Some conclusions came out of it. People agree to try their best to change behaviour. People make mistakes and slip up. So do you. That makes you an example, not the supervillain.
Saying that I said that I have decided you're the ONE responsible for everything that's gona wrong over the last six month is complete hyperbole bullshit. I would never even think that.
QuoteWhen people you respect suddenly shit all over you, you sort of feel stunned for a little while, then you try to figure out what you might have done to anger people. When it turns out that you can't figure it out, and the people in question won't say what it is, you kind of have to write them off.
It is unrewarding to hold in high esteem people who hold you in contempt, know what I mean?
Well I don't know either why you have to go all polarized into underdog mode whenever I critizise you. And then you shit all over me, indeed as if I was projecting ALL of the board's problems onto you*, something which I would never do. Fuck if I know how you read that into my posts.
So you shit over me, and I still respect you. It's hard sometimes, but not even the (pretty epic) shitting really compares up to all the stuff you have done to earn those respects.
* but really, please knock it off with all the 500 Errors.
maybe I should sum it up, so it's clear who I did and did not try to single out for what:
1) I was pissed at the whole thread for taking a direction into a subject that [IMO] had nothing to do with the OP.
2) I think Dok was being a bit hypocritical for calling that threadjack a "good conversation", when, if the same thing would have happened to one of his own threads, he'd be all like "thread ruined", "UNNNG" and "why the fuck do I even bother".
3) The fact that this sort of shit (IN GENERAL) is still going on, despite all the discussions and (what I presume to be) our best efforts, means that PD is still sick and that even the people (IN GENERAL!) that know better also make these mistakes.
especially note that 3 does not anywhere imply these people making mistakes are in any way solely responsible for all the previous shit that happened.
so, given that this was apparently incredibly hard to distill from my post. how about when there's room for interpretation, you do not assume the absolute worst of me? I find such an attitude to aid communication a great deal.
TripZip, but it's not even about you, or any of us.
Just like the issues this thread was intended to address, this theatrical, hysterical reaction is
nothing personal.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 10:08:44 PM
Ah, see...You're doing it again--exaggerating what is said into something ridiculous so that you can dismiss it more easily.
Bullshit. You're the one who said I make the noobs act the way they do.
Oh, really? Where?
Quote from: Brotep on May 05, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
TripZip, but it's not even about you, or any of us.
Just like the issues this thread was intended to address, this theatrical, hysterical reaction is nothing personal.
Well, I was actually sitting down to write a fairly conciliatory explanation of my position for Trip, because the last two posts of his imply that we're shouting past each other.
However, since Brotep obviously knows what I'm
really thinking, I'll just let him do it.
EDIT: No, fuck that. Brotep can kill himself and fuck the body.
Dok,
Just loves when people speak for him in this manner.
Hey, Brotep: Nice Job Breaking It, Hero. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero)
Quote from: Brotep on May 05, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 04, 2010, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 10:08:44 PM
Ah, see...You're doing it again--exaggerating what is said into something ridiculous so that you can dismiss it more easily.
Bullshit. You're the one who said I make the noobs act the way they do.
Oh, really? Where?
Here:
Quote from: Brotep on May 04, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
[no srsly]
You're a funny guy, Rog, and it makes being a member of this site a lot of fun. However, part of that humor involves a brushing aside of rationality, and using it to browbeat anyone who crosses you. This only encourages n00bs to behave self-righteously, leading to spectacular conflicts with violent endings. What if we just ignored the ones who said stupid shit and encouraged the ones with good material to contribute?
[/no srsly]
Okay, over my mad from Brotep's shit-stirring.
So, okay, Trip, here goes...I'm going to try to address things in order.
The first issue was the Grant Morrison thread. Morrison was quoted as saying:
Quote(7) Let's think of history as if we're in the victory lap. We survived two world wars and guess what - there was no apocalypse, there was no second coming, no rapture, none of that stuff we've been worrying about, and now we're here together at the dawn after a very long dark age. So now what?
To which I replied:
QuoteAlso, #7 ignores the very real possibility that we will choke on our own shit in the next 20-50 years.
By this I meant that the "victory lap" comment sounded a lot like "mission accomplished". I brought up that there's another kind of doom that
hasn't been addressed. From there, Hoops and I engaged in an admittedly heated conversation about whether or not overpopulation was a threat to the species.
It got a little hot, and a few of us brought up the fact that the irrationality of large groups of people has to be factored into any solution. This argument HAS been made before, but it definitely applied here. It's prior use does not invalidate it.
If this makes me an example of what's wrong with PD, I am a little curious...Was I to accept Morrison's comments without analysis? I mean, I can do that...Or at least avoid any such conversations in the future. Your suggestion?
Second, in my thread, I pointed out that certain things prevent people from - IMO - acting as discordians.
QuoteIt is my opinion that when you start identifying with the various fake ideologies that the monkeys have all bought, you drop on your knuckles and no longer qualify as a biped...This, in turn, disqualifies you as a Discordian for the duration of your error. This would include political, economic, religious, and fraternal beliefs.
(bolding added)
Your response was:
Quoteseems to me you're looking really really hard to dismiss people.
Which I never implied. Not sure where that came from. Can you enlighten me?
Then you said:
QuoteAs soon as someone even just momentarily argues some ideology, they get trashed.
Again, if I am expected to just blindly accept an ideology as invalid, let me know.
QuoteBecause I was criticizing you (and others, but you ignore that, I suppose) which is not the same as casting you as a villain. That would be overreacting.
Yes, you were criticizing me. I'd prefer you criticize my argument. I do not claim to be an infallible guru of some kind.
Quoteno. the entire overpopulation discussion had nothing to do with the OP. the argument was about whether overpopulation could be solved or not. which is only tangentially related to the video in the OP, which didn't even mention overpopulation.
Actually, it was directly related. You can't claim to be in the victory lap, as Morrison does, if you're in immediate, serious trouble, survival-wise. He brought up war and "the rapture", and I merely pointed out that there are other problems that are just as serious.
Quoteit's just what Cain said, same discussions over and over again.
Actually, no it wasn't. Cain was bitching about libertarian discussions (and rightfully so). This was a different discussion in which certain similar arguments were used.
QuoteSo if "we're in the victory lap" was the only thing you took from that video, then how is that different from Vene's "How can you be anything other than a monkey?" which made you go "arrg semantics and why the FUCK do I bother" ..
get it now?
No, not really, because I pointed out that I had at least two other issues with the piece, including the "giving up individuality" thing.
In fact, in your original post, you stated that I attacked multiple things, and only bit on the one that got responses, and now you're saying that I only focused on one thing from the beginning.
Quite frankly, Trip, between the Morrison thread and my thread, I feel like you've set out to attack me. I may be wrong about that, but the personal nature of your criticisms has me more than a little concerned.
Comments?
I just want to mention that one of the things that I, and I think many others here, really enjoy about Dok is his over-the-top polemic. It's a well-known quality, and sure, it's not nice to have it turned against you, but when people (like Brotep, in this case) proclaim that it's what's wrong with the board, I kinda want to tell them to stick it up their ass. You can't have it both ways; a strong, engaging personality is going to be equally strong and engaging both when you're liking it and when you're not liking it. If you want milquetoast, I can suggest a few boards for you. This is not one of them, and I hope it never is.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 05, 2010, 07:11:54 PM
I just want to mention that one of the things that I, and I think many others here, really enjoy about Dok is his over-the-top polemic. It's a well-known quality, and sure, it's not nice to have it turned against you, but when people (like Brotep, in this case) proclaim that it's what's wrong with the board, I kinda want to tell them to stick it up their ass. You can't have it both ways; a strong, engaging personality is going to be equally strong and engaging both when you're liking it and when you're not liking it. If you want milquetoast, I can suggest a few boards for you. This is not one of them, and I hope it never is.
Thanks, Nigel. :)
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 07:43:43 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 05, 2010, 07:11:54 PM
I just want to mention that one of the things that I, and I think many others here, really enjoy about Dok is his over-the-top polemic. It's a well-known quality, and sure, it's not nice to have it turned against you, but when people (like Brotep, in this case) proclaim that it's what's wrong with the board, I kinda want to tell them to stick it up their ass. You can't have it both ways; a strong, engaging personality is going to be equally strong and engaging both when you're liking it and when you're not liking it. If you want milquetoast, I can suggest a few boards for you. This is not one of them, and I hope it never is.
Thanks, Nigel. :)
My pleasure to speak the truth, man.
(btw I will reply to this tomorrow, because right now I (still) have (more) beer in me)
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 05, 2010, 07:11:54 PM
I just want to mention that one of the things that I, and I think many others here, really enjoy about Dok is his over-the-top polemic. It's a well-known quality, and sure, it's not nice to have it turned against you, but when people (like Brotep, in this case) proclaim that it's what's wrong with the board, I kinda want to tell them to stick it up their ass. You can't have it both ways; a strong, engaging personality is going to be equally strong and engaging both when you're liking it and when you're not liking it. If you want milquetoast, I can suggest a few boards for you. This is not one of them, and I hope it never is.
:mittens:
I would like to point out that a polemic is designed to create an emotional response, and can completely derail a conversation if used carelessly.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
I would like to point out that a polemic is designed to create an emotional response, and can completely derail a conversation if used carelessly.
And always, always, assume it's loaded.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 08:08:52 PM
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
I would like to point out that a polemic is designed to create an emotional response, and can completely derail a conversation if used carelessly.
And always, always, assume it's loaded.
Apt metaphors are apt.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:03:31 PM
I would like to point out that a polemic is designed to create an emotional response, and can completely derail a conversation if used carelessly.
Just to look at it from another perspective, if you were writing Dok as a character in a story, would you give him temperance and restraint? Or would he be a better character if he went all-out, all the time?
I think I know which would make a better character. With temperance and restraint, you have created a character who is a politician or a hero. Without, you have created a character of interest.
To return to real life for a moment, FFS, the guy has brain damage. You're expecting him to be "careful" with his polemic? I'm not saying he should get a free pass, any more than anyone else should get a free pass based on whatever the fuck's wrong with them (and it does seem like 3/4 of this board has depression or some other illness) but it's all part of working in a community, up to a point. Take a chick who will say absofucklutely anything because she's missing her filters; you enjoy the shit out of the chick who's missing her filters, and then sometimes her missing filters are less than enjoyable but you know it's kind of the price you pay for the times when you enjoy it.
To speak as an author, with Dok as a character as you describe, the story would need a judicial placement, and NON-placement of his presence/polemics.
To speak IRBL (in real Board life), I would take Dok at his own words, and say that only he is responsible for his actions. He would probably agree.
I would also point out that he can be starkly plain, rational, and logical; he can self-analyze like a motherfucker; and more than any other poster I have seen in my five years here, he is the one who has made the most apologies when he has realized he might be wrong. So in that way, he is nothing like the fictional character proposed.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:33:34 PM
To speak IRBL (in real Board life), I would take Dok at his own words, and say that only he is responsible for his actions. He would probably agree.
I do.
Doc is awesome! Anyone gets butthurt over something he says - it's their fucking problem. Hell I'll get in a flame war with him from time to time cos fucked if you can resist, right? But he's a genuine, stand-up guy. Like a brother to me. A brother made out of bullets and bile sometimes but we shared a womb. You want to fuck with the Doc then you're fucking with me too. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
I'm just staying, and sticking to it, that strong personalities are strong. There's an upside and a downside to this. You don't get to be like "I DON'T WANT YOUR PERSONALITY TO BE STRONG ALL THE TIME BECAUSE SOMETIMES I DON'T LIKE IT".
Well, actually, you DO get to be like that, and also you get to stand in the storm shaking your fist at the wind, if you want to.
I will agree with that.
But I will also state that I believe that Dok is NOT binary; he is more than a two-position, on/off polemic valve.
More than most people, he honestly tries hard to be a biped.
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:47:04 PM
I will agree with that.
But I will also state that I believe that Dok is NOT binary; he is more than a two-position, on/off polemic valve.
More than most people, he honestly tries hard to be a biped.
Yeah. And?
And,
QuoteYou're expecting him to be "careful" with his polemic?
Yes.
But I don't want to be careful. :sad:
I want to go straight through the drywall, over the top, and come crashing down like John Denver in a stunt plane. :)
Life is too short for careful.
That being said, I AM responsible for the things I say and do. I am not, however, responsible for things other people say I say and do (talking to you, Brotep, you fucking swine).
All I'm saying is that sometimes, you need a hammer; and sometimes, you need a really big hammer.
You know your tools; and you know how to use them. Right?
Quote from: LMNO on May 05, 2010, 08:56:56 PM
All I'm saying is that sometimes, you need a hammer; and sometimes, you need a really big hammer.
You know your tools; and you know how to use them. Right?
Right.
It's sort of like having 4th and 5th gear. You sometimes need to differentiate between speeds.
Not sure what the other 3 are for, though.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
But I don't want to be careful. :sad:
I want to go straight through the drywall, over the top, and come crashing down like John Denver in a stunt plane. :)
Life is too short for careful.
That being said, I AM responsible for the things I say and do. I am not, however, responsible for things other people say I say and do (talking to you, Brotep, you fucking swine).
THIS.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
But I don't want to be careful. :sad:
I want to go straight through the drywall, over the top, and come crashing down like John Denver in a stunt plane. :)
Life is too short for careful.
That being said, I AM responsible for the things I say and do. I am not, however, responsible for things other people say I say and do.
That's a very good point, and perhaps that's been my problem of late: worrying to much what others think about me. I mean let's be honest here, I am batshit insane, and I say stupid shit all the time. Do I believe what I say? Hell yes. Does that mean others are going to like it? Fuck no. Not my problem. I didn't come here to win a popularity contest. I can't believe it took me this long.
So yeah, people, you are probably all going to disagree with me on details here and there, though I think we mostly agree on the big picture. I think.
Quote from: Hoopla on May 05, 2010, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
But I don't want to be careful. :sad:
I want to go straight through the drywall, over the top, and come crashing down like John Denver in a stunt plane. :)
Life is too short for careful.
That being said, I AM responsible for the things I say and do. I am not, however, responsible for things other people say I say and do.
That's a very good point, and perhaps that's been my problem of late: worrying to much what others think about me. I mean let's be honest here, I am batshit insane, and I say stupid shit all the time. Do I believe what I say? Hell yes. Does that mean others are going to like it? Fuck no. Not my problem. I didn't come here to win a popularity contest. I can't believe it took me this long.
So yeah, people, you are probably all going to disagree with me on details here and there, though I think we mostly agree on the big picture. I think.
It's been a rough year all around.
Dear Roger,
Encouraging something vs. causing it are two different things.
I said reactionary behavior has the former effect, not the latter.
One has to wonder how you would react should you actually have a legitimate grievance.
The idea was to encourage cooperation, and in that I have clearly failed here, as you do not want to cooperate and I made the mistake of attempting to continue discussion.
You are not responsible for the behavior of others, just as I am not responsible for your behavior.
Enjoy your thread.
Brotep
Dear Brotep,
I read your PM and will comply. In exchange, kindly never speak to me again, here or anywhere else.
Venomously,
Dok
so this entire thing stems from a subgenius taking notice to someone saying there is no apocalypse coming?
:lulz:
sometimes I actually think that you might all be retarded, and that I might be retarded for being unable to look away.
this is definitely one of those times.
Srsly, Dok, you don't see the difference between what brotep said and what you're saying he said? because it's fucking glaringly obvious.
Srsly, Brotep, you don't know better than to keep fighting a pointless battle like this one?
Srsly, Nigel, with the "you fuck with my boy, you fuck with me" vibe? Are we discordian guidos now?
Srsly, TripZip, with the immediate histrionics every time you feel antagonized?
Srsly, ECH, with the "you fucking tards" bit? Suck it up or GTFO much?
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on May 06, 2010, 07:40:41 AM
Srsly, Nigel, with the "you fuck with my boy, you fuck with me" vibe? Are we discordian guidos now?
maybe its a residual effect from the owl cabal, which i believe was formed in response of :wade:
Quote
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
luckily for me, i had my teeth cleaned today,
tho my tummy swears it shallowed something it didnt like.
guess i should have use the vacuum more, as i dont think it was the gyro thats urks me currently
Get well soon Professor :(
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on May 06, 2010, 07:40:41 AM
Srsly, Nigel, with the "you fuck with my boy, you fuck with me" vibe? Are we discordian guidos now?
...[elided]
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Since when is agreeing with someone being a guido? Certainly the last thing Roger needs is me standing up for him. If anything it's likely to bring him more flak.
This thread doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, but the bullshit leading up to it does.
I agree ECH, there's something strange afoot.
Where the fuck is Verthaine?
I just watched a video about the "world's deepest black-smoker vents looming out of the darkness" and I thought of a Verthaine rant.
He would excise the cancer that is killing pd.com in a transdimensional nanosecond.
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on May 06, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
I agree ECH, there's something strange afoot.
Where the fuck is Verthaine?
I just watched a video about the "world's deepest black-smoker vents looming out of the darkness" and I thought of a Verthaine rant.
He would excise the cancer that is killing pd.com in a transdimensional nanosecond.
Verthaine hasn't posted here since before I registered. Though he can be found at the bar and grill.
I miss Verthaine.
Quote from: Hoopla on May 06, 2010, 02:19:44 PM
I miss Verthaine.
Verthaine was a giant. Not sure how well he'd get along now, though (I'd certainly like him back).
He left because he wasn't crazy about our take on Discordianism, though he was never anything but supportive towards us. He almost single-handedly stopped the Great Civil War back in 2005.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on May 06, 2010, 07:40:41 AM
sometimes I actually think that you might all be retarded, and that I might be retarded for being unable to look away.
this is definitely one of those times.
Srsly, Dok, you don't see the difference between what brotep said and what you're saying he said? because it's fucking glaringly obvious.
Srsly, Brotep, you don't know better than to keep fighting a pointless battle like this one?
Srsly, Nigel, with the "you fuck with my boy, you fuck with me" vibe? Are we discordian guidos now?
Srsly, TripZip, with the immediate histrionics every time you feel antagonized?
Srsly, ECH, with the "you fucking tards" bit? Suck it up or GTFO much?
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
1. It isn't really what Brotep said, so much as the opportunistic shit he pulled...Waiting til I was in an argument with Hoops and Trip, then piling on. Brought back bad memories.
2. I didn't need Nigel's support, but I appreciate it. Is going to help a friend "Guido"?
3. Tripzip is fine, in my books. We simply have had a misunderstanding or two. Same with Hoops.
4. And you're not a retard. That's MY job. Back off or I file a greivance.
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on May 06, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
He would excise the cancer that is killing pd.com in a transdimensional nanosecond.
There is no cancer. What there IS, is a half dozen retards trying to treat the patient with apple-corers.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 06, 2010, 03:06:25 PM
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on May 06, 2010, 07:40:41 AM
sometimes I actually think that you might all be retarded, and that I might be retarded for being unable to look away.
this is definitely one of those times.
Srsly, Dok, you don't see the difference between what brotep said and what you're saying he said? because it's fucking glaringly obvious.
Srsly, Brotep, you don't know better than to keep fighting a pointless battle like this one?
Srsly, Nigel, with the "you fuck with my boy, you fuck with me" vibe? Are we discordian guidos now?
Srsly, TripZip, with the immediate histrionics every time you feel antagonized?
Srsly, ECH, with the "you fucking tards" bit? Suck it up or GTFO much?
This thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
1. It isn't really what Brotep said, so much as the opportunistic shit he pulled...Waiting til I was in an argument with Hoops and Trip, then piling on. Brought back bad memories.
2. I didn't need Nigel's support, but I appreciate it. Is going to help a friend "Guido"?
3. Tripzip is fine, in my books. We simply have had a misunderstanding or two. Same with Hoops.
4. And you're not a retard. That's MY job. Back off or I file a greivance.
meh, I may have picked a bad example of what I think is an unfortunate trend towards cliquishness here. But that doesn't change the fact that there's been an unfortunate trend towards cliquishness here. And yeah, I'm fucking fine with EVERYBODY here but that doesn't change the fact that for all of our talent at picking apart what's wrong with the rest of the world we seem to be utterly goddamned unable to engage in effective and objective analysis of our own fucked-up counterproductive behavioral patterns and we sure as shit seem unable or unwilling to make anything more than the most superficial of changes to those patterns. And yes, I am sure as fuck including myself in that charge, probably first and foremost.
I think I need a break from this crowd. No offense to you guys. I fucking love you guys. But I need a fucking break. Peace out for a while.
...But you just got here.
yeah, but that trip really opened my eyes/changed my thinking/fucked my head up. I've got alot of shit I need to process and I'm not sure that the contentious atmosphere here is going to be conducive to that in the short term. I'm not flouncing or anything lame like that, I just need to force myself to stay out of my comfort zone for awhile. I'll be back when I have some fire to bring.
Gotcha. Via con dios.
Before you go, I wanted to ask if you've heard of a place called Primo in Rockland, ME. Tony Bordain went there. It looked pretty good.
Supposed to be the best restaurant in the state, at the moment. I intend to go confirm this for myself soon and will report my findings.
Woot, etc. I may finally be able to convince Mrs LMNO to head Downeast.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 06, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on May 06, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
He would excise the cancer that is killing pd.com in a transdimensional nanosecond.
There is no cancer. What there IS, is a half dozen retards trying to treat the patient with apple-corers.
IT'S LUPUS CANCER!
\
(http://bored-bored.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/caricature-dr-house.jpg)
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on May 06, 2010, 03:58:12 PM
yeah, but that trip really opened my eyes/changed my thinking/fucked my head up. I've got alot of shit I need to process and I'm not sure that the contentious atmosphere here is going to be conducive to that in the short term. I'm not flouncing or anything lame like that, I just need to force myself to stay out of my comfort zone for awhile. I'll be back when I have some fire to bring.
Be well. And don't stay away too long. You don't post enough as it is.
Miss ya, ECH. Come back soon!
ok, as promsied, the reply.
Dok said "tripzip is fine", I say "Dok is fine" :)
Really after stepping back for a couple of days, things like these are really not worth fighting over. Had to step back for IRL reasons first, but I did mull over it a lot.
Then now I will proceed to answer Dok's questions hopefully without re-igniting anything.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 05, 2010, 05:17:49 PM
If this makes me an example of what's wrong with PD, I am a little curious...Was I to accept Morrison's comments without analysis? I mean, I can do that...Or at least avoid any such conversations in the future. Your suggestion?
Nah I might have better tried to bring the thread back onto a different topic myself instead of bitching about it.
It was partly also that the overpopulation discussion seemed to go to a point where even expert opinions are (seemingly) very divided on the magnitude and solutions to the problem. Kind of like climate change. Or whether Mathematics is a science or not :) While this leads to an interesting discussion, it will be a heated one and it really is a different topic going from "Morrison is wrong in saying we're in the victory lap because of
for example overpopulation" to "Overpopulation is in fact a real big problem OR not".
It was a sort of thread drift I thought we were trying to avoid, and probably combined with some other entirely unrelated thing that had pissed me off, I overreacted somewhat.
QuoteQuoteIt is my opinion that when you start identifying with the various fake ideologies that the monkeys have all bought, you drop on your knuckles and no longer qualify as a biped...This, in turn, disqualifies you as a Discordian for the duration of your error. This would include political, economic, religious, and fraternal beliefs.
(bolding added)
Okay, I totally missed the bolded part. Makes a world of difference.
QuoteQuoteseems to me you're looking really really hard to dismiss people.
Which I never implied. Not sure where that came from. Can you enlighten me?
It really seemed like "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation to me, at the time.
Maybe it's this. I do think that [some] Discordians can have a "taste" of some ideologies. I think it's a natural thing for [some] Discordians, and not only because RAW has written extensively on the subject.
Now I absolutely agree with that this Discordian in case will
always have to come back after his "trip", to subvert the ideology, to kill the idols. Otherwise they got stuck in the monkey-trap.
But I disagree with the nature of this return as you describe it. You say the trip itself was an error, and the monkey needs to get some sense slapped back into it.
And that's the thing. Now I'm not a really big practicing reality-channelsurfer myself, but I have done and still do it from time to time. And so far, my monkey has always snapped back into TFYS after a while, and I trust it to do so in the future. Hell I would have never gotten through that book on Qabalah if I hadnt been able to set aside my scientific rationalism for a while. But I got back, with an experience richer (at the very least it allows me to make SSOOKN in-jokes, but it's useful in other manners too). And that's maybe also the thing Morisson was saying about individuality or something, it's not like I
traded in my scientific rational person for a qabalist. It's more like I
augmented the bullshit fundamentals of my belief with some other bullshit (and yes science is probably the best bullshit we got, but it's not perfect either).
And who knows, maybe next time I'm gonna study up on healing stones and energy flows and shit. ..Or maybe not :) Anyway the point is, if I do, I will get back to Discordianism, cause nobody ever leaves. But I resent the idea that such an entire trip will be seen as "an error". Of course, I wandered off the path and have come to see the errors of my ways. But I also wandered off the path and saw some pretty weird shit, some awesome shit, and even firsthand knowledge of the errors of my ways is valuable because it's the same errors of other people's ways.
QuoteQuoteAs soon as someone even just momentarily argues some ideology, they get trashed.
Again, if I am expected to just blindly accept an ideology as invalid, let me know.
QuoteBecause I was criticizing you (and others, but you ignore that, I suppose) which is not the same as casting you as a villain. That would be overreacting.
Yes, you were criticizing me. I'd prefer you criticize my argument. I do not claim to be an infallible guru of some kind.
Hm, okay. You're right I will keep that in mind, sorry.
QuoteIn fact, in your original post, you stated that I attacked multiple things, and only bit on the one that got responses, and now you're saying that I only focused on one thing from the beginning.
Quite frankly, Trip, between the Morrison thread and my thread, I feel like you've set out to attack me. I may be wrong about that, but the personal nature of your criticisms has me more than a little concerned.
Comments?
You are right. I think it was a whole combo of reasons, most of which to do with me, not you.
I really did enjoy that video (if only because the fucker reminded me of P3NT so much :) ), and after I watched it I saw the thread had grown from 2 to 6 pages or so. But then I was disappointed that it was a discussion about whether overpopulation was an issue or not.
Also, ECH just was the second person to accuse me of histrionics. I looked up the word again and still don't agree it fits entirely. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong dictionaries but they say things like "exaggerated emotional behavior calculated for effect".
You are right in noticing that lately I've been having a bit of a shorter fuse than usual, and tend to explode in a different manner than previously. But I just want to say, it's not purposefully calculated for effect or theatrics or like that. It's also happening IRL now and then, apparently I have a lot of pent up anger and disappointment (in myself) and turmoil in me, and it seems to be coming to the surface. I'm trying to deal with it. The advantage I have is that I am very aware of it happening, because me (as well as my gf) are quite introspective.
So far, solutions seem to be to take a step back and cool-off a bit when necessary (I have a big textfile called
posts.txt that I use as an incubator, you really don't want to see what's in there :) but it works wonders for letting off the steam of the moment, as well as reading it the next morning and thinking "I'm SO glad I didn't post that!" :) ) another trick is to remind myself that
I cannot change other people's behaviour, I can only change the way I respond to it. You can probably tell I don't always manage to apply one of these tricks.
Dok, weren't/aren't you dealing with a similar sort of thing? Got any more tricks? :)