Hey Folks,
Well I just got back from hangin out with Dok and Daruko tonight. We had a pretty good time both are very cool folks.
Although the events of the evening are rather inconsequential what I want to talk about is what I got out of it. It's Wednesday right, I'm going out on a Wednesday and I think to myself, "AH FUCK, I'm gonna go out and have to drag my ass out of bed in the morning for the next two days and-and-and...." Obviously, it's a negative program or whatever but I have a feeling most of us probably run the goddamn thing more often than we would like.
My dad and I were talking the other day and I revealed that I've been in a rut. He tells me I should find something to do that I really enjoy doing.. He asks, "Whaddya like?"
I don't know.
I like reading sometimes. Computers. I enjoy putting googly eyes on clever and interesting places and going on Postergasms. Playing music. But none of these ideas really seemed to really 'solve' my rut.
Tonight I realize, maybe it's not really the thing in itself that I need to do but rather make the thing in itself something I enjoy doing.
It's been said before, I realize. It's something all of you know already.
The problem is, it's really not.
PD does projects. I've heard some of you from time to time talk about how it's tough to organize something. Even I've occasionally felt that I should be contributing more. I mean I think most of us agree we have a pretty sweet thing going here. I know that I've never been surrounded by a more creative group of people.
You're all incredible Artists.
You see, THAT IS IT. THAT is The Great Work. But it's nothing that you should do. THAT is something that will happen when it NEEDS to happen. It seems to me that it's worked this way all along. When it occurs to you to be creative--to make what you are doing into your Art, thats when it happens.
This is the point when the other artists will notice and say, "Shit! I also have something to offer!" And it just gets bigger. Each of us with our own little doodle or mural making it the way we want it.
And finally, when it's all over, what will be left is this incredible piece of ... of.... I don't even know what to call it. But I have a feeling its going to be incredible.
Or Kill Me.
Dok and Daruko? At the same time? How much blood was there?
Only a small puddle, suprisingly.
Whatever the Great Work may be, you can count on me to supply as many deformed skull drawings as necessary.
Gourd knows I feel like I don't do enough.
Quote from: memy on May 27, 2010, 09:56:29 AM
Whatever the Great Work may be, you can count on me to supply as many deformed skull drawings as necessary.
Gourd knows I feel like I don't do enough.
:mittens:
maybe this is my flawed human nature speaking right here
but what really fired me up is when I get jealous
I talked to an old buddy from high school. He was kind of a stoner, I didn't have very high expectations of him. But it turns out that after he graduated high school, he joined the military, fought in several different countries, got back to the states and decided he was going to cross the country... so he biked from east to west. Then moved to Bermuda, where he's living like a king and running a small company.
I see 26 year old kids on the news who have already changed the world, and will continue to do so
I meet people my age who are already half-millionaires
my girlfriend's best friend is in Hillary Clinton's think tank to solve the energy crisis
and the shmucks I hang out with are hung up on whether the next thing in their netflix que should be Thundercats or Transformers. :lulz:
but yeah man, it makes me want to go do something great
and I don't know what
I've been hung up on Crowley's idea that we can somehow know our True Will.
So I've been asking myself every day, "What is my purpose? Why am I here?"
I'm just going to keep asking, but I'm also open to suggestion!
I've been feeling much the same for a while... like a serious two year rut, no joke. Funnily enough I came to the same conclusion as Burns did, just this past Monday... ONE DAY AFTER MEETING ROGER.
Coinkydink?
I have five (zomg) big projects I'm trying to work through, but life keeps getting in the way.
The problem is, it's that very life that allows me the possibility to do the projects.
It's a frustrating balance of sustainability and creativity.
I think I lost my job at just the right time. Since I got fired I have taken the time to start my book. Not that it will be a Great Work™, but it will be MY Great Work™.
Maybe that's just good enough.
I wouldn't say I have any "Great" work in mind. I'm concerned with always making better work. Whether that's crafting, writing, hitting thigns with a sword, or supporting and inspiring greater creativity or deviancy in others, as long as it's constnat learning and improvement, that's what I'm after.
I have lots of Great Works. Sometimes they are Humanities, like pieces of mythical fiction and recordings of musics. Sometimes they are Science.
Right now, I just (as in five minutes ago) finished a poster for an international conference in Santa Fe. It summarizes one third of my thesis, which is my current Great Work. Of the other 2/3s, 1/3 is finished, a couple pages in my notebook. 1/3 is not yet completed. Combined together, they will make progress on a problem of insect systematics that people have been struggling with for the past 70 years.
My next great work will be within a group of insects called the web spinning fungus gnats. It doesn't sound particularly charismatic, but the genus I plan to revise are beautiful, folks. Long slender legs and antennae, very delicate looking, with glassine wings bearing striking patterns, and the larvae literally fish in the air for fungal spores, with multiple lines of sticky proteins. No one has worked on this group in North american for a very long time. The primary work was done 100 years ago, and nothing has been written on them since the 70s. Eventually I want to master the whole of the Keroplatidae in North America. And that's just ONE of the Great Works I have planned. Creativity in science means pushing hard to see things in a different light, to understand what no one else has understood before. In systematics it is the reciprocal illumination of evidence upon evidence. Every light in the dark adds to our understanding of the tangled bank.
There are people who genuinely aspire to greatness and there are people who think they do but really can't be arsed. At least that's the conclusion I came to shortly before I removed myself voluntarily from the latter category. Fame and fortune and a dedicated legion of followers, whilst appealing to me, doesn't really flip my switch as much as kicking back with some mates and a few beers and playing tekken, when taken into consideration the ammount of beers and playstation games I'd have to sacrifice in order to achieve it.
Does this make my existence and experience any less valid than Bill Gates or Mahatma Ghandi?
As far as I can work out - only if I let it.
@Cram: When I wrote this I considered the doodle vs. mural metaphor. It occurs to me that we can't all paint murals and chances are most people will only ever doodle. I don't think this is such a bad thing. Yogi Berra once said something like, We can't all be heroes, some of us have to sit on the sidewalk and clap as they go by. I used to think why would i want to be on the sidewalk--fuck that noise but now it seems that its not really the size that counts but that you actually do SOMETHING! The heroes might be going by, but we might, happen to have some sidewalk chalk if you catch my drift.
@Hoopla: Dude, I haven't even fully processed everything yet.
@LMNO: EXACTLY. I'm realizing that that balance is part of the medium itself. That it's about using what's going on here and now, our own unique 'stuffs' as a part the Art.
@Hawk: Its what you must do--and it's perfect.
@Richter: You got it, man.
@Kai: I'd even add what I've learn from you over the years as another one. Everybody brings something to the table in their own unique way and I think that's what we need.
@Pent: For a while i was a bit obsessed with T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men where he compares hollow men with men with 'direct eyes' in the same manner you're talking about. I used to think that I had to do something huge and extraordinary to not be "hollow" but I think it's less about that and more about not letting anybody get in the way of doing what each of us must do.
Gotta admit I'm no believer in "must"
"must" turns into philosophical quicksand real quick and leads directly to notions of divine adjudicators and manifest destiny and a whole lot of other bullshit that I'll do my best to disprove just by the way I live my life - if god ever beats me in a square fight I'll recant, til then - fuck him. Fuck destiny, karma, true will and all of the other bullshit that goes along with it. Strikes me a vast percentage of the human race measures greatness using all the wrong instruments.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2010, 05:47:56 PM
Gotta admit I'm no believer in "must"
"must" turns into philosophical quicksand real quick and leads directly to notions of divine adjudicators and manifest destiny and a whole lot of other bullshit that I'll do my best to disprove just by the way I live my life - if god ever beats me in a square fight I'll recant, til then - fuck him. Fuck destiny, karma, true will and all of the other bullshit that goes along with it. Strikes me a vast percentage of the human race measures greatness using all the wrong instruments.
I tend to agree. My book is not a must but a want to real bad. It is bringing wildly unexpected contentment. If it becomes a must I may never touch it again.
I hear both of you loud and clear.
I don't mean 'must' in the sense of obligation or expectation. That's what I was touching upon when i said that the Great Work is nothing that you /should/ do. That will kill spontaneity quicker than hell. It's why when there's a rut or lag in some collaboration, chances are it's because it has become that way. I mean 'must' in the sense that when the feeling comes through you-- you just HAVE to get it out. When that unique drive comes through to do what you must.
Example: I MUST put googly eyes on damn near everything -- it's about what drives you.
Quote from: Burns link=topic=25303.msg877659#msg877659 date=1274979879
Example: I MUST put googly eyes on damn near everything -- it's about what drives you.
/quote]
I THOUGHT it was one of you spags spagging up my campus with googly eyes! :lulz:
I've always had a love / hate relationship with "achievement", as in the Murals vs. Doodles metaphor.
Sure, the guy who makes the mural is putting up a big piece that a lot of people will see. Hopefully, it's good, and inspires / amuses / makes life a little nicer to look at for a lot of people. Hopefully it gets the artist some combination of exposure, fame, and money. Is it worth any more than the guy who keeps a notebook or two full of doodles, (which might be better), and never seeks to do anything else with his work?
Personal opinion; they're equal on a couple levels. Both people have created things, and gotten things inside their head OUT. There's always fun in the creative process, and (again, hopefully) our mural artist is not so caught up in the commercial aspects that it's a chore for him. Special conditions and situations aside, both folks created. Judging which is better, or over which timeframe sucess is judged (Ex: HP Lovecraft, or anyone else unknown in their own time.), is a really subjective thing, that can develop into monkey - style chest thumping dick shaking.
Like one of the great noble truths in Buddhism, "Life is pain.". How MUCH pain, or how they got it gets subjective and irrelevant. Everyone hurts, everyone gets scarred, everyone calibrates that to their own pain experience. Same thing with any creative process, I think. Doesn't matter who is getting what reward, product, or recognition out of it, as long as they are doing what they do.
(I could be crass and commercial, making my millions tortuing myself with wharf rats up the ass, and sellign the videos. I have no desire to engage in wharf - rat insertion, though, and will not see refinement or development of wharf rat insertion as a worthy goal. It jsut doesn't strike me as fun, so I don't do it. )
(Granted, everyone has their price. Still, no matter how much it makes me, I wouldn't ENJOY it, and would be doing a disservice to the greater art of W.R.I. You reading this may have noticed similar performers in hopefully different videos.)
(Fucking Ratfuckers.)
I have no interest in fame or fortune, beyond being well-known enough to sell my work for enough to pay the bills. However, I do feel compelled to have an effect on people, to change their lives in some way. I guess that's going pretty well.
I'm at an interesting plateau in my life, where I have quite literally achieved everything I've worked for, and now I need to finish up a few things and find more stuff to work for. I don't know what that stuff will be, yet, so I'm kind of just taking a breather. I feel strongly that whatever it is I end up doing, the next phase of my life will be a collaborative one. Up until now I have been almost fiercely solitary in my endeavors.
Quote from: Richter on May 27, 2010, 06:55:35 PM
I've always had a love / hate relationship with "achievement", as in the Murals vs. Doodles metaphor.
Sure, the guy who makes the mural is putting up a big piece that a lot of people will see. Hopefully, it's good, and inspires / amuses / makes life a little nicer to look at for a lot of people. Hopefully it gets the artist some combination of exposure, fame, and money. Is it worth any more than the guy who keeps a notebook or two full of doodles, (which might be better), and never seeks to do anything else with his work?
Personal opinion; they're equal on a couple levels. Both people have created things, and gotten things inside their head OUT. There's always fun in the creative process, and (again, hopefully) our mural artist is not so caught up in the commercial aspects that it's a chore for him. Special conditions and situations aside, both folks created. Judging which is better, or over which timeframe sucess is judged (Ex: HP Lovecraft, or anyone else unknown in their own time.), is a really subjective thing, that can develop into monkey - style chest thumping dick shaking.
Like one of the great noble truths in Buddhism, "Life is pain.". How MUCH pain, or how they got it gets subjective and irrelevant. Everyone hurts, everyone gets scarred, everyone calibrates that to their own pain experience. Same thing with any creative process, I think. Doesn't matter who is getting what reward, product, or recognition out of it, as long as they are doing what they do.
Yes!, especially to the bolded part.
Quote from: Burns on May 27, 2010, 06:04:39 PM
I don't mean 'must' in the sense of obligation or expectation. That's what I was touching upon when i said that the Great Work is nothing that you /should/ do. That will kill spontaneity quicker than hell. It's why when there's a rut or lag in some collaboration, chances are it's because it has become that way. I mean 'must' in the sense that when the feeling comes through you-- you just HAVE to get it out. When that unique drive comes through to do what you must.
Like when you've hit the point of no return, and you're going to have an orgasm no matter what?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 27, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
I have no interest in fame or fortune, beyond being well-known enough to sell my work for enough to pay the bills. However, I do feel compelled to have an effect on people, to change their lives in some way. I guess that's going pretty well.
I'm at an interesting plateau in my life, where I have quite literally achieved everything I've worked for, and now I need to finish up a few things and find more stuff to work for. I don't know what that stuff will be, yet, so I'm kind of just taking a breather. I feel strongly that whatever it is I end up doing, the next phase of my life will be a collaborative one. Up until now I have been almost fiercely solitary in my endeavors.
And the collaboration just 'feels right', right? like you sort of somehow 'know' that's what you've got to do.
Quote from: Kai on May 27, 2010, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Richter on May 27, 2010, 06:55:35 PM
I've always had a love / hate relationship with "achievement", as in the Murals vs. Doodles metaphor.
Sure, the guy who makes the mural is putting up a big piece that a lot of people will see. Hopefully, it's good, and inspires / amuses / makes life a little nicer to look at for a lot of people. Hopefully it gets the artist some combination of exposure, fame, and money. Is it worth any more than the guy who keeps a notebook or two full of doodles, (which might be better), and never seeks to do anything else with his work?
Personal opinion; they're equal on a couple levels. Both people have created things, and gotten things inside their head OUT. There's always fun in the creative process, and (again, hopefully) our mural artist is not so caught up in the commercial aspects that it's a chore for him. Special conditions and situations aside, both folks created. Judging which is better, or over which timeframe sucess is judged (Ex: HP Lovecraft, or anyone else unknown in their own time.), is a really subjective thing, that can develop into monkey - style chest thumping dick shaking.
Like one of the great noble truths in Buddhism, "Life is pain.". How MUCH pain, or how they got it gets subjective and irrelevant. Everyone hurts, everyone gets scarred, everyone calibrates that to their own pain experience. Same thing with any creative process, I think. Doesn't matter who is getting what reward, product, or recognition out of it, as long as they are doing what they do.
Yes!, especially to the bolded part.
Spot on. Primarily the first sentence...that's what i'm looking for. Getting it OUT---making it known. I think also, in a lot of ways, touches on creating specifically for an audience vs. creating for yourself (which may or may not have a target audience). It reminds me of something alan moore said...i vaguely recall mentioning this before. "It is not the job of the artist to give the audience what they want. If the audience knew what they want, they wouldn't be the audience, they'd be the artist. It's the artist job to give the audience what they need."
Or something to that effect.
Something Dok mentioned regarding stickering something: 7/10 people won't give a shit. 2/10 will think it's stupid. But then there's that one person whose affected in such a way that he will get angry or frusterated (or what have you) and have no idea why.
That seems to me to be the artist giving the audience what he or she needs.
Quote from: Ne+@uNGr0+ on May 28, 2010, 12:04:58 AM
Quote from: Burns on May 27, 2010, 06:04:39 PM
I don't mean 'must' in the sense of obligation or expectation. That's what I was touching upon when i said that the Great Work is nothing that you /should/ do. That will kill spontaneity quicker than hell. It's why when there's a rut or lag in some collaboration, chances are it's because it has become that way. I mean 'must' in the sense that when the feeling comes through you-- you just HAVE to get it out. When that unique drive comes through to do what you must.
Like when you've hit the point of no return, and you're going to have an orgasm no matter what?
Shaky metaphor, but I'll humor you.
It's like seeing a fine piece of ass that's so nice that you yourself: I would risk Aids and pregnancy just to tap that once.
Or not, it's quite possible that I'm the only one who things these sorts of things. But the drive in general, I think, isn't /quite/ so different.
Quote from: Burns on May 28, 2010, 03:26:28 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 27, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
I have no interest in fame or fortune, beyond being well-known enough to sell my work for enough to pay the bills. However, I do feel compelled to have an effect on people, to change their lives in some way. I guess that's going pretty well.
I'm at an interesting plateau in my life, where I have quite literally achieved everything I've worked for, and now I need to finish up a few things and find more stuff to work for. I don't know what that stuff will be, yet, so I'm kind of just taking a breather. I feel strongly that whatever it is I end up doing, the next phase of my life will be a collaborative one. Up until now I have been almost fiercely solitary in my endeavors.
And the collaboration just 'feels right', right? like you sort of somehow 'know' that's what you've got to do.
Yes; like knowing to push after you pass transition.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 28, 2010, 03:48:42 AM
Quote from: Burns on May 28, 2010, 03:26:28 AM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on May 27, 2010, 07:41:57 PM
I have no interest in fame or fortune, beyond being well-known enough to sell my work for enough to pay the bills. However, I do feel compelled to have an effect on people, to change their lives in some way. I guess that's going pretty well.
I'm at an interesting plateau in my life, where I have quite literally achieved everything I've worked for, and now I need to finish up a few things and find more stuff to work for. I don't know what that stuff will be, yet, so I'm kind of just taking a breather. I feel strongly that whatever it is I end up doing, the next phase of my life will be a collaborative one. Up until now I have been almost fiercely solitary in my endeavors.
And the collaboration just 'feels right', right? like you sort of somehow 'know' that's what you've got to do.
Yes; like knowing to push after you pass transition.
IOW, know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. :)
You know I quite enjoyed hearing about what drives your creative impulses.
Today I considered Andrew Goldsworthy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goldsworthy) in a new light.
I was having a headache today due to awful allergy symptoms. All I wanted to do was fart around online, play some trivia and go to sleep. The last thing I had in my mind was doing serious scrubbing and vacuuming and dry hands etc... but it was one of those 'right thing to do' situations so i dragged my lazy ass out of bed.
Sweeping, I began to compare how what I was doing with what he was doing. He basically uses nature and creates beautiful patterns and shapes with the found objects like rocks, mud, sticks, icicles and so on. [YouTube Link] (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=andrew+goldsworthy&aq=f)
It always seems so peaceful, serene...exactly what I always feel like I'm lacking in life on occasion. Then it occurs to me that my scrubbing and vacuuming and dry hands etc... is doing exactly the same thing he's doing.
So tonight, i ended up having a fucking blast. :lulz:
When we were sitting on the patio The Dok said your facial expression DICTATES you mood. And I do believe there was a very serious emphasis on the DICTATES.
Daruko mentioned a Hunter S. Thompson quote saying something to the effect of :You can get away with anything if you're good at what you do. It was better stated but at the moment I can't recall how.
The point of view sort of makes everything going on into an artform...and why the hell not, ya know?
And i figure this way, the only way they can stop me from having fun now, is by putting a bullet in my brain. :rogpipe:
Quote from: Tom Cruise- Last SamuraiFrom the moment they wake they devote themselves to the perfection of whatever they pursue.
I've always loved this notion. Wiping your arse can be art if you approach it in the right frame of mind.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 29, 2010, 03:04:47 PMWiping your arse can be art if you approach it in the right frame of mind.
:lulz: This was sooo the right thing to read upon first waking up this morning.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 29, 2010, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: Tom Cruise- Last SamuraiFrom the moment they wake they devote themselves to the perfection of whatever they pursue.
I've always loved this notion. Wiping your arse can be art if you approach it in the right frame of mind.
Perfect. :lulz:
Quote from: Juvenal on May 29, 2010, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 29, 2010, 03:04:47 PMWiping your arse can be art if you approach it in the right frame of mind.
:lulz: This was sooo the right thing to read upon first waking up this morning.
OH HAI