While some of you think "stupid hippies" when it comes to these things, I've been watching the video's on youtube and this one is particularly fucked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU
Sign of the times.
While I have some sympathy for the POV of the anti-G20 demonstrators, and am well aware of the brutality often displayed by riot police at such events, I also cannot help but think they are wasting their time. When the anti-WTO protests got too violent, they just switched venues to places like Doha. The G20 will just meet in a guarded compound in Beijing if the protests start to get too annoying, and then they will still ignore the protestors demands.
...can't believe I was there just under a year ago. ON Spadina.
Wow.
The end of that spot is damned good footage, and you can tell what's going to happen as the rush of NON-battle-armored dudes come in with their faces set. Not all of the riot police are wearing gasmasks, wonder what THAT's all about...contingency plan?
There are also the riot police you don't see, in the crowd and wearing plain clothes, acting as agent provocateurs and inciting violence to justify the heavy handed response.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:15:48 PM
While I have some sympathy for the POV of the anti-G20 demonstrators, and am well aware of the brutality often displayed by riot police at such events, I also cannot help but think they are wasting their time. When the anti-WTO protests got too violent, they just switched venues to places like Doha. The G20 will just meet in a guarded compound in Beijing if the protests start to get too annoying, and then they will still ignore the protestors demands.
don't get me wrong, I generally think this form of protesting is an effete symbolic gesture. But one can't knock the power of symbols. These things serve two functions - 1. to communicate their message to the members of the summit, and 2. to rally and focus the dissident energy. I would say they've failed at 1 in any meaningful sense, but aren't doing too badly at 2. It may just be a matter of attaining the right critical mass. There is a certain protest size that will be difficult to ignore.
If I
had to attend a protest, it would probably be the G8 or G20.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:30:18 PM
There are also the riot police you don't see, in the crowd and wearing plain clothes, acting as agent provocateurs and inciting violence to justify the heavy handed response.
yeah, that is really pretty crazy and in itself is cause for protest.
I see protesting this way: in 2003, the biggest protests of all time in this country and many others were made against the impending Iraq War.
It's now seven years later, and guess what? The troops are still there.
The kind of critical mass you would need is virtually impossible to achieve. And with pretty much all political parties in the G20 nations reading off the same economic script, with a few minor variations for flavour, a government can ignore it's own population's discontent by saying "what you gonna do about it?"
you're right, these kinds of protests are the equivalent of tapping on the glass with a sad look on your face.
But is there a more effective route for individuals to get involved? I feel like you'd need some actual power before you could get your voice heard, which doesn't leave us proles sitting in a spot where we can do anything.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:30:18 PM
There are also the riot police you don't see, in the crowd and wearing plain clothes, acting as agent provocateurs and inciting violence to justify the heavy handed response.
It doesn't seem like a particularly wise tactic these days, since everyone has cameras built into their cellphones. One would think that there would be a backlash effect for the SWAT team.
Then again, this sort of thing is not a new image and no one really cares beyond "eh, sucks to be those protesters. What are you going to do though?" Aside from lodging a complaint against 12375.
Bonus G20 information fun
http://www.ianwelsh.net/what-actually-happened-at-the-g20-protests/
QuoteThere's been a lot of crying about "thugs and anarchists" in Toronto. I live about 4 blocks from where some of the vandalism occurred, though I wasn't there at the time.
As best I can tell, what happened is that for about an hour, the Black Bloc protesters clearly and visibly prepared for action, with both the police and other, non-violent protesters able to see they were doing so. The number of Black Bloc vandals seems to have been between 50 to 100, certainly not more than 200. (The police had 20,000 men.)
The police actually withdrew, leaving behind police cars for the Black Block to torch. Which they then did. The Black Bloc then proceeded up Yonge street (the main north/south street in downtown Toronto), vandalizing as they went, and eventually many headed over to Queen's Park, the Provincial capital. Two hours after the first violence, the police finally take action, ensuring that there are plenty of videos of police cars burning and vandalism that would not have occurred if they had taken action earlier.
According to the police, rather than confront a maximum of 200 protesters, they withdrew behind the barrier around the G20 meetings and let them vandalize downtown Toronto for 2 hours.
At the end of the day the people who matter never even saw any protests and the 1 billion dollar police presence and suspension of civil liberties was "justified" by vandalism and burning police cars.
Simply put, the police decided that they couldn't spare say 2,000 out of their 20,000 men to stop 200 vandals. This was a deliberate decision to allow downtown to be vandalized.
I leave it as an exercise for readers to decide if this was a matter of incompetence, or if it was a deliberate strategy. And if it was deliberate strategy, just what they were trying to accomplish with their strategy.
Of course, along the way Canadian Civil Liberties observers were arrested as well, and protesters were not allowed to see lawyers.
Quote from: Cramulus on June 29, 2010, 04:39:43 PM
you're right, these kinds of protests are the equivalent of tapping on the glass with a sad look on your face.
But is there a more effective route for individuals to get involved? I feel like you'd need some actual power before you could get your voice heard, which doesn't leave us proles sitting in a spot where we can do anything.
Run for office?
What makes any government anywhere give away major concessions? Fear of, popular, widespread and violent revolution from below.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:45:47 PM
What makes any government anywhere give away major concessions? Fear of, popular, widespread and violent revolution from below.
...and since the Rodney King riots here in L.A., most of the protests I've seen in the Western world seem to be started and maintained by the college-age and college-going crowd...big difference, because they typically have "more to lose."
ETA: of course I'm glossing over the whole Teabagger movement shite, and they were made up of mostly older, white middle to lower class Americans. It just all seemed rather manufactured in a lot of ways, and I'm not really thinking it's in the general spirit of what this thread is about...though they did hold their share of rallies and whatnot.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:45:47 PM
What makes any government anywhere give away major concessions? Fear of, popular, widespread and violent revolution from below.
This is kind of a scary thought, given that the far right is the only faction left that seems willing to seriously consider violence.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on June 29, 2010, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:45:47 PM
What makes any government anywhere give away major concessions? Fear of, popular, widespread and violent revolution from below.
This is kind of a scary thought, given that the far right is the only faction left that seems willing to seriously consider violence.
That's because progressives generally frown on treason.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on June 29, 2010, 05:35:51 PM
Quote from: Requia ☣ on June 29, 2010, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 04:45:47 PM
What makes any government anywhere give away major concessions? Fear of, popular, widespread and violent revolution from below.
This is kind of a scary thought, given that the far right is the only faction left that seems willing to seriously consider violence.
That's because progressives generally frown on treason.
:lulz:
That's pretty much Zizek's entire critique of the liberal legalist/fundamentalist fascist dialectic in a nutshell.
The problem, as I see it, is this: when there were other possibilities, such as Communism, which seemed viable, governments would make concessions in order to stave off the possibility of mass revolt intended to bring about that kind of society. A kind of political innoculation, if you will. Putting up with minimum wage in return for not seeing re-runs of the Red Terror. Downgrading the privileges of the aristocracy to prevent the guillotine. And so on and so forth.
Now, as we are so frequently reminded, there are no alternatives. End of history, yadda yadda, and the middle/upper class college students Jenne referred to certainly aren't going to flock towards radical Islam in order to piss off their parents (why should they, when their parents got free love and to smoke pot?). Since the far-right feeds off many inherent problems within liberal democracy, the emphasis on there being no other alternative automatically spawns a fundamentalist/fascist "purifying" backlash.
And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 06:18:32 PM
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
That's depressing....
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 06:18:32 PM
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 06:18:32 PM
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.
...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum? MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...
Course, is it ALL reactionaryism? I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits." So to speak. I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions. As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.
But then, I'm old. So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just
feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't. If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though. *ponders*
Quote from: Jenne on June 29, 2010, 06:26:44 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 06:18:32 PM
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.
...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum? MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...
Course, is it ALL reactionaryism? I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits." So to speak. I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions. As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.
But then, I'm old. So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't. If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though. *ponders*
Yous spend your teens and twenties trying to rebel against your parents, your thirties and forties concentrating on your own life, and when you turn 50, you ARE your parents.
Quote from: Jenne on June 29, 2010, 06:26:44 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: LMNO on June 29, 2010, 06:18:32 PM
Wow. We're pretty much forced to go Right, then?
Kind of had my feet up, munching on celery, since kids figured out that right wing racism was the only way to piss off their hippy parents.
...but what about those of us with the opposite spectrum? MY parents flipped off the hippies themselves and embraced right-wing Bible-thumping fascism...
Course, is it ALL reactionaryism? I think a large part is, but sometimes there's also a "shoe that fits." So to speak. I think the progressives (ugh, like ME) were duped into believing that Obamites were telling them truisms about his intentions. As we quickly sour on him like yesterday's milk, and maybe prematurely, but all points lead to "fuck no, he's a schmoe," I can't see myself turning back to the Conservatard movement.
But then, I'm old. So I guess my pov is really a no go show here ITT...I just feel like I've so recently been a PART of a general protest, but really, I haven't. If I had an opportunity, I think I would, though. *ponders*
No it's not all reactionary. Wasn't for me at least. Grew up surrounded by liberals by any account, and I have always been either right where they are or even further left. Not out of rebellion.
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.
ugh
so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?
ugh
Quote from: Cramulus on June 29, 2010, 06:32:00 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.
ugh
so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?
ugh
General trend of history. Gandhis are rare. Plus that only works in certain scenarios. He told the Jewish population of Germany to let Hitler do his thing and they would win in the end.
brainfart:
HEAP
Holocaust Education And Prevention
Educate every minority on guerrilla tactics and the construction and use of firearms.
How effective would the Nazi's have been if for every 3 Jews/gays/stoners/gypsies they locked away 1 german soldier died?
getting such a killratio wouldn't be that hard if everyone is shooting back, right?
A lot more fatal 'accidents' in peace time that way, but at least no minority will go oppressed.
And before someone says "but then the minorities will start oppressing other people" see bolded text above(that means every living person).
Problem with that though is that it would have given them more propaganda fuel.
Actually my favorite anecdote about that time period was this:
SS barges in to this Jewish guy's home and start giving him shit and what not. Jewish guy starts getting really pissed and reaches into a drawer while he's shouting at them. SS get ready to take him down until they see him holding up an Iron Cross. Jewish guy says, "See this?! I got awarded this in the Great War. Is this what I fucking fought for?!?!?!"
They gave him the Nazi salute and walked out. I think I caught this on the History Channel, so I can't cite it, and I know I don't remember it very accurately, or what happened to him in the long run, but I thought that was cool. Kinda like, "I was shooting Frogs and Roast-Beefs when you were shitting your diapers, and you want to haul me off for not being German enough?" And they fucked off. What could they say?
funny that Seattle isnt the only one that gets a small handful of MIB starting shit,
i liked the video of the guy almost pulling off one of their masks as he attempted to throw a rock.
shame really if wasnt for those spags the only time those batons would have been used was with a hooker
Quote from: Cramulus on June 29, 2010, 06:32:00 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 05:41:18 PM
And that is Zizek in two paragraphs.
ugh
so is the only way to enact real change to support the most violent factions?
ugh
Zizek, I believe, has no problem with truly revolutionary violence (though he very much agrees the police states of Actually Existing Socialism were authoritarian shitholes, and I may be misreading him on the violence part). For him though, the fascist/liberal dialectic goes much further, into Lacanian psychology and other things. I'll try and find some quotes on....shit, my free time is basically up in the air until I get this passport shit worked out.
Quote from: Kai on June 29, 2010, 03:56:47 PM
While some of you think "stupid hippies" when it comes to these things, I've been watching the video's on youtube and this one is particularly fucked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohGLp00MmU
Sign of the times.
Hi Kai. Thanks for starting this thread. Dirty Hippie reporting in.
Maybe you've all heard this already, but maybe not. But here's a little of what we're left with after the weekend.
700 of the over 900 'detainees' have been released and not charged with anything. People are still being released. Kind of like what happened in Miami 7 years ago at the FTAA summit, only with 3 times the number of people rounded up.
About 1,000 people (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/829854--outraged-protesters-rally-against-police) showed up yesterday to a march protesting the police brutality this weekend. Heard some people giving speeches about being detained. Heard from more who had children, friends, partners, etc detained. Heard from people who were out for a walk, or on their way to work, who were approached by police and told that they were illegally protesting. And not just downtown. Random parks and sidewalks turned into no-go zones.
The conflation of "detainment" with "arrest" by the police and media is unsurprising, but still really fucking gross. Of course, the police are assuring their mouthpieces that they'll do a thorough investigation of themselves to determine that they've done nothing wrong. Expect "a few bad apples" and "miscommunication" at 11.
At least sites with more readers than rags like The Globe and Mail (eg. BoingBoing (http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/29/g20-police-used-imag.html)) can set the story down before it gets edited again.
Quote from: Nurse Rhizome on June 30, 2010, 04:58:22 AM
Quote from: Captain Utopia on June 29, 2010, 05:08:20 PM
I'd love for what happened on Sunday to be turned into a national scandal. I just don't think it will.
I hope so, too.
But just for the record, it really started during the weekdays leading up to the protest, when police were raiding people's homes and detaining people known to be part of the movement.
btw... "Hipster legends" and "lattes"? You're kidding, right? :lol:
Actually, I'm just a bit annoyed at the protesters and I was expressing it through sarcasm. The story which I would have loved to read Monday morning would have been along the lines of "Riot police thoroughly bored as a peaceful weekend of protesting drew to a close. The only attempted instance of vandalism was quickly subdued by the crowd. Blah blah". Instead of the crowd cheering on the violence, and being supportive - "this broken window will be my new desktop wallpaper, hurrr hurrr".
I totally support the right to protest. And I would have supported that right even more had they chosen to protest a week earlier or a week later. Why? Because picking the G20 weekend for a myriad of different protests to compete for attention was not so much a chance to get the message out for their respective causes - that was always going to be lost to the bigger story - but because they knew it would lead to confrontation and violence. Moreover - each protester knew that there was a very small chance that they'd be the ones ending up on the wrong end of a billy-club - someone else spilling blood was a price they were willing to pay.
It's like the walking through the wrong neighbourhood, wearing the wrong colours and saying the exact wrong things to the wrong gang. In no way is abuse of power, violence or intimidation even remotely acceptable.. but if you walk into the situation knowing exactly what to expect, then please don't play the surprised victim card afterwards.
And we know the script. The career-cop being drafted in for the weekend isn't going to sacrifice his pension and families lifestyle by suddenly quitting, or joining the protesters. No - the narrative fed to him will be one-sided and utterly compelling. We know he is just one brick in the wall - predictable and unthinking. That isn't about right or wrong, just what is. They are The Machine, and they aren't going to change until we learn to attack The Machine more effectively. If we fuck up and attack it in the wrong way, then we make The Machine more powerful -- the next "G" summit has just been given more justification for over-the-top security measures. And the protesters there will be sure to grant The Machine plenty of excuses to exercise its newfound muscle. And so on.
That's what pisses me off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNqMV4Bgs&playnext_from=TL&videos=UmfnTSkoBog&feature=recentlik
holding comment
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on June 30, 2010, 07:48:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNqMV4Bgs&playnext_from=TL&videos=UmfnTSkoBog&feature=recentlik
holding comment
What a fucking disgrace. I will be calling the Toronto police department tomorrow.
To be fair the more I read the more it seems the TO police were 1) over their head or 2) getting simultaneous orders from two or more sources...
also how despite what CBC keeps saying how pathetic are our protesters really? I kept waiting to see those southerns burn!
Also what a stupid move to hold the summit in a major metropolitan area.
If they were smart they would have went three hours north to Huntsville. Beautiful lake and country side... lots of room, and a haven for many celebrities, also far enough to attract less protesters.
As for damage to stores... well I could guarantee that nice people of Huntsville would have just did what they do best...
gauge outsiders of every penny they own
It would have been a thing of beauty
A youtube doubler:
http://bit.ly/b4cm68
I first came to Toronto 13 years ago.. and it doesn't feel like the same city any more. Hasn't for a while. Maybe it's just me. But that doubler was :cry:
Quote from: Thurnez Isa on June 30, 2010, 08:04:37 PM
To be fair the more I read the more it seems the TO police were 1) over their head or 2) getting simultaneous orders from two or more sources...
also how despite what CBC keeps saying how pathetic are our protesters really? I kept waiting to see those southerns burn!
Also what a stupid move to hold the summit in a major metropolitan area.
If they were smart they would have went three hours north to Huntsville. Beautiful lake and country side... lots of room, and a haven for many celebrities, also far enough to attract less protesters.
As for damage to stores... well I could guarantee that nice people of Huntsville would have just did what they do best...
gauge outsiders of every penny they own
It would have been a thing of beauty
They ARE holding a summit in Huntsville. The G8 summit. I know because my grandparents were visiting here last week and they have a cottage there that might not survive.
a news report which is a bit more sympathetic towards the activists and reports on some of the ridiculous police actions
like people being arrested for having a lawyer's phone number written on their arm
One chick was blowing bubbles. the cop says: "If one of those bubbles touches me, I am arresting you for assault."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwXOKZh4Os&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-amzGk7qN8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-amzGk7qN8)
Now tell me about human moral progression.
Toronto: Having the 1968 Democratic Convention TODAY!
Might be a good parallel, that:
QuoteThe Toronto G-20 summit sent a message to poor and working people in Europe and North America. "You will pay for the global financial crisis through cuts to your social safety nets. There will be no taxing of those who actually caused the crisis and made fortunes in the various bubbles over the last decades."
Of course not in so many words — what they said was they had committed to fiscal plans that will at least halve deficits by 2013 and stabilize or reduce government debt-to-GDP ratios by 2016. That means austerity plans, which was pretty much what was on the agenda before the countries got there.
This was bad enough. But there was another message, too, sent through the Canadian police: "If you don't like it, how about a rubber bullet?" It looks like G-20 countries will deal with opposition to their plans through martial law and police brutality.
I was there in Toronto, where police turned the downtown center into something resembling martial law. The invocation of an archaic piece of legislation called the "Public Works Protection Act" at the G20 site essentially suspended probable cause, giving police the rights of search and seizure to anyone, anywhere in the area. In other parts of the city peaceful demonstrators were charged with "conspiracy to commit mischief" and "disturbing the Queen's peace".
Canadians learned that there was no right to freedom of assembly and no freedom of speech as long as extraordinary measures could be rationalized.
And what were the circumstances? Well, in the midst of twenty thousand peaceful demonstrators were around one hundred people dressed in black (known as the Black Bloc tactic). At a certain point on Saturday afternoon, they broke away from the main protest march, and ran up and down Yonge Street breaking windows. Four police cars were trashed and burned. There is evidence a few of the cars were abandoned by police for hours before they were set upon. On one such car, protesters painted the words "bait".
There was nothing very secret about the Black Bloc's intentions or plans. There is evidence that the police had infiltrated the group, but in any case, they actually published most of their plans on a public web site. Yet in footage captured by a freelance journalist and dozens of cams posted on YouTube, police can be seen standing by for as long as an hour or more while the rampage occurred.
Was it a deliberate plan by the security forces (led by the RCMP), or a lack of resources as police claimed? When you try to answer that, keep in mind the Canadian government spent close to a billion dollars on security that included around 19,000 police on the streets.
In any case, television images of burning police cars became the rationale for almost a thousand arrests, mostly not of people wearing black, but of ordinary demonstrators. We know of times when people sat cross-legged holding up peace signs had rubber bullets fired at them. Journalists were manhandled, thrown to the ground, beaten with batons or punched in the face or gut, which happened to Jesse Rosenfeld (writing for the British paper The Guardian) and our own Jesse Freeston at The Real News.
The public has a right to know whether police are or are not abusing their powers. And the public can't know this without professional journalists with the courage to report from the centre of the storm. These journalists must be able to stand their ground if police try to move them, and the law must protect their right to do so. Without this, we are on our way to a police state.
Canadians are still processing the Toronto protest. What happened with the $1 billion the federal government is spending on security? Are the people of Ontario going to put up with the Public Works Protection Act, implemented quietly for the G-20? Will they accept the principle that the police can declare any protest or demonstration an illegal assembly? Will they demand full accountability from politicians and the police?
If the protest marked a turning point for the city, then it also marked a turning point for the world. If the Toronto G-20 is the shape of things to come, then people faced with drastic reductions in their living standards will be denied their freedom of speech and assembly at the snap of a police officer's or politician's fingers.
The firing of those rubber bullets should be a shot heard round the world.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/07/guest-post-the-g20-plan-for-prosperity-%e2%80%93-rubber-bullets-and-shredded-social-safety-net.html
I had a discussion with one of my new co-workers today. Apparently she thinks that the G20 police actions were both appropriate and justified. She admits that they made a "few" mistakes, but that no inquiries/disciplinary actions should be taken because:
1. It would cost too much
2. It would "undermine the authority of the police" (Yes, really)
3. It would be unnecessary, as she thinks they will "learn from their mistakes" and that there won't be any problems next time.
:weary:
Well yeah, Rem, the police are their own authority. What did you think we live in, a republic? :lulz:
Thanks for linking the story from Real News, Cramulus. Even after their journalist Freeston got bashed in the face, they kept on reporting. ... the 'contact cards' the lawyer talks about are a huge threat. Whole lotta kids just got thrown in the system.
But on the upside (yes, I am that pollyanna sometimes, and I need to be atm), the mass arrests of bystanders has politicized a lot of people who've never had the honour of being targets before. Besides the buzz in my communities, I know a few people who a couple of weeks back said the word 'protester' like a curse word, seeing no difference between Teabaggers and No One Is Illegal. Just completely ignorant before. They're calling themselves activists now. Does an aging hippy's heart good after a very rough week. Small comforts. :lol:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 14, 2010, 05:16:17 PM
Toronto: Having the 1968 Democratic Convention TODAY!
Pretty much.
Quote from: Cain on July 15, 2010, 01:32:20 AM
Quote
I was there in Toronto, where police turned the downtown center into something resembling martial law. The invocation of an archaic piece of legislation called the "Public Works Protection Act" at the G20 site essentially suspended probable cause, giving police the rights of search and seizure to anyone, anywhere in the area. In other parts of the city peaceful demonstrators were charged with "conspiracy to commit mischief" and "disturbing the Queen's peace".
Canadians learned that there was no right to freedom of assembly and no freedom of speech as long as extraordinary measures could be rationalized.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/07/guest-post-the-g20-plan-for-prosperity-%e2%80%93-rubber-bullets-and-shredded-social-safety-net.html
And on Tuesday we found out that there WAS no '5 meter rule' or anything like it. They just lied (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/police-admit-deliberately-misleading-public-on-expanded-security-fence-law/article1622864/?cmpid=rss1). That first press conference announcing the Public Works thingy was just a heads up: "We've just announced that we'll arrest you for anything we want. Please notice that no mainstream reporter will call bullshit. See you on the streets."
Horrormirth watching major news outlets struggle in the aftermath to find a way to talk about the arrests without condemning the law that wasn't. Very twisty business. Your friend is doing great remembering her talking points, Remington...
The aggravating part is that she's a generally likable person and fairly knowledge on most other topics.
More G20-related horrormirth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fse4_kynYRE
This man has his priorities straight. Waste no tears on nightstick bruises; the Toronto public wants to shop.
Quote from: Remington on July 15, 2010, 05:25:16 AM
The aggravating part is that she's a generally likable person and fairly knowledge on most other topics.
That does make it worse. There's more than one 'generally likable person' that's made me raeg for the exact same reason the past few weeks. It genuinely sucks ass.
Quote from: CAPTAIN SLACK on July 15, 2010, 05:28:36 AM
More G20-related horrormirth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fse4_kynYRE
This man has his priorities straight. Waste no tears on nightstick bruises; the Toronto public wants to shop.
Sweet little spaz-kid in the gray shirt gets my vote for Prime Minister. :lol:
Quote from: Nurse Rhizome on July 15, 2010, 06:04:42 AM
Sweet little spaz-kid in the gray shirt gets my vote for Prime Minister. :lol:
Yeah, that just about made my day.
Quote from: CAPTAIN SLACK on July 15, 2010, 05:28:36 AM
More G20-related horrormirth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fse4_kynYRE
This man has his priorities straight. Waste no tears on nightstick bruises; the Toronto public wants to shop.
Good thing.. for a minute I thought he was actually going to make a real point there
Good thing we don't have anarchy! I mean, people would attack you without provocation and so-called police could strong arm you for no reason at all... Ah rule of law and government you keep us safe.
:lulz: :argh!: :x
Quote from: Ratatosk on July 15, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
Good thing we don't have anarchy! I mean, people would attack you without provocation and so-called police could strong arm you for no reason at all... Ah rule of law and government you keep us safe.
:lulz: :argh!: :x
Anarchy is the period between the fall and rise of two rival gangs with big guns.
Quote from: Remington on July 15, 2010, 01:40:18 AM
I had a discussion with one of my new co-workers today. Apparently she thinks that the G20 police actions were both appropriate and justified. She admits that they made a "few" mistakes, but that no inquiries/disciplinary actions should be taken because:
1. It would cost too much
2. It would "undermine the authority of the police" (Yes, really)
3. It would be unnecessary, as she thinks they will "learn from their mistakes" and that there won't be any problems next time.
:weary:
:x
I guess if you've never been witness to police crimes, then simply their presence gives one a warm comforting feeling? Don't criticise the police, they might evaporate! Your co-workers response sounds like it's about what she would want the police to be, than the cold reality of their actions, though.
How are they going to learn from their mistakes if nobody points this out to them?
Police are like the power of love, if you don't believe in them they don't work.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 17, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
Police are like the power of love, if you don't believe in them they don't work still spray you with chemicals and beat the shit out of you.
There, fixed that for you.
Quote from: Telarus on July 17, 2010, 11:04:04 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 17, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
Police are like the power of love, if you don't believe in them they don't work still spray you with chemicals and beat the shit out of you.
There, fixed that for you.
I have never heard of the power of love doing that.
That's because you believe in it, its only the filthy unbelievers that get hit.
This is why nobody actually believes the cops would do that.
Quote from: Telarus on July 17, 2010, 11:04:04 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 17, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
Police are like the power of love, if you don't believe in them they don't work still spray you with chemicals and beat the shit out of you.
There, fixed that for you.
That's just the kinky ones. :)
Who's the kopyleft posters itt?
year old BUMP for end of testimony publication ban.
G20 case reveals 'largest ever' police spy operation (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/11/22/g20-police-operation.html)
QuoteIn all, the RCMP-led joint intelligence group — a conglomeration of federal, provincial and municipal police tasked with G8/G20 reconnaissance — employed more than 500 people at its peak, the records show. The group ran undercover operations, recruited confidential informants and liaised with domestic and foreign governments, law enforcement agencies and even corporations.
The JIG's targets included activists protesting the Olympics, the migrant-justice group No One Is Illegal, Southern Ontario Anarchist Resistance and Greenpeace.
"The 2010 G8 summit in Huntsville ... will likely be subject to actions taken by criminal extremists motivated by a variety of radical ideologies," reads a JIG report from June 2009, before the G20 summit was scheduled, that sets out the intelligence group's mission. "These ideologies may include variants of anarchism, anarcho-syndicalism, nihilism, socialism and/or communism.
"The important commonality is that these ideologies ... place these individuals and/or organizations at odds with the status quo and the current distribution of power in society."
Off-topic, but for anyone looking for a quote on the Why Don't They Target Teabaggers topic, I think ^that one right there^ could do you for a bit.
QuoteRCMP-led intelligence team made a series of presentations to private-sector corporations, including one to "energy sector stakeholders" in November 2011.
Other corporations that received intelligence from police included Canada's major banks, telecom firms, airlines, downtown property companies and other businesses seen to be vulnerable to the effects of summit protests.
Also leaving my favourite point made in the comment section so far:
QuoteAfter arresting 1,100 people and keeping them locked up without food, water, or legal representation, 6 are found guilty. Quite the statistic.
There were 59 criminal charges in all, more than 70,000 pages of Crown evidence disclosed to the defence, and months of scheduled testimony to convict 6 people, who pleaded guilty anyway. Also quite the statistic.
More than 500 people were employed in spying on Canadian citizens from June 2009 until April 2011 for a five-day summit. This, too, is quite the statistic.
This is Canada?
btw, anyone not wanting to click through for whatever reason, the 6 in question here pled (sp?) guilty to 'counselling mischief,' and two of those 6 also copped to 'counselling to obstruct police.'
Welcome to the 21st Century, Nurse Rhyzome. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2011, 05:56:54 PM
Welcome to the 21st Century, Nurse Rhyzome. :lulz:
*kicking and screaming*
:horrormirth:
But... but... it doesn't make sense because the guy in Due South was really really nice! And Canadians generally mean well, don't they??? And... politics is supposed to be different here because... Trudeau maple syrup made beavers on Anne Murray moose leaf or something... ?!
:lol:
Sorry. Can't keep a straight face for that one.
Quote from: Hoser McRhizzy on November 23, 2011, 06:03:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2011, 05:56:54 PM
Welcome to the 21st Century, Nurse Rhyzome. :lulz:
*kicking and screaming*
:horrormirth:
But... but... it doesn't make sense because the guy in Due South was really really nice! And Canadians generally mean well, don't they??? And... politics is supposed to be different here because... Trudeau maple syrup made beavers on Anne Murray moose leaf or something... ?!
:lol:
Sorry. Can't keep a straight face for that one.
Ever since Pierre Trudeau left office, Canadians have elected one wannabe Reagan after another. Then they fucking bitch about it, and then head straight to the polls and vote MORE right wing.
So...it was the biggest police intelligence operation in history, and yet it still couldn't stop outbreaks of violence.
Not suggesting anything, just noting.
Oh no! I'm not suggesting anything either.
[redirection]And who cares about that stuff? Think of all the lucrative contracts. Think of the employment rate, and how over 500 men and women had some extra work during the recession. I think we can all agree that's what's important here.[/redirection] :cry:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2011, 06:06:19 PM
Ever since Pierre Trudeau left office, Canadians have elected one wannabe Reagan after another. Then they fucking bitch about it, and then head straight to the polls and vote MORE right wing.
^troot^
Most recent - 40-ish% of the (counted from those who were allowed to) vote got us the lipless reconstructionist-fundie oil sands man. Again. ... I should put money on
Ford For Emperor, 2012.
Quote from: Cain on November 23, 2011, 06:07:22 PM
So...it was the biggest police intelligence operation in Canadian history...
Even with the country correction, the headline is still misleading. I know you know this, but just to be a bit clearer.
Quote from: Cain on November 23, 2011, 06:07:22 PM
So...it was the biggest police intelligence operation in history, and yet it still couldn't stop outbreaks of violence.
Not suggesting anything, just noting.
IT SUGGESTS THAT THE POLICE NEED EVEN
MORE MONEY, NEXT TIME.
I'm actually pretty sick of people calling such protesters "dirty hippies" and such. Whatever the reason they protest and however they do it, I'm always happy when I see protesters - they are doing something. And this whole occupy movement pleases me a lot - it's global and although it's a bit disorganized, it's been getting a lot of media attention and media attention is a must in our times if you want to achieve something.
But yeah, there are plenty of people who are way to comfortable in their own little world and even the concept of change scares them - for them the protesters are always "dirty hippies" or "stupid for expecting to change anything".
I like the Greeks' thinking - "Police brutality? Kill it with Molotows!"