One thing about the times we live in is that they are testing. You can't really doubt that; things are tough all round, and you don't really know the character of someone until they are tested, I think.
A friend of mine was distraught last night, and I spent hours trying to console her as best I could. She was upset, because she works for an insurance company, and her boss has decided that because they have such a backlog of claims, she is cancelling all leave over the holiday period. Not just that, actually. My friend is going to be working forced overtime from the day after boxing day, right through to and including new years eve.
It is her job to go over claims for any evidence of fraud. Now, claims do go up at Christmas, and some of the time they are fraud claims, no argument there.
However, rather than working through the backlog calmly, now the pressure is being piled on. It is being done to meet targets, rather than because there is a pressing concern the claims won't be handled swiftly enough, and the net result is that the entire team, when they should be relaxing with their families...
Will be staring into the face of human misery, terrible events brought about by fate, carelessness, stupidity or greed.
Their work won't be better quality.
They won't be more vigilant.
They won't be more motivated.
They will be miserable, tired, resentful for having been forced to come into a work at a time they were looking forward to having off. And even worse that it is being cancelled just three days before it was due to happen.
The manager who made this decision, of course, will not be coming in.
This is the kind of evil that we are faced with every day. The petty-minded, stupid person who decides that they are 'making the tough decision', when the decision they make doesn't effect them one iota. They do it because they can, and because they expect to be rewarded for doing so. Completely uncaring about the damage they inflict on their team and the misery they inflict on the people underneath them., if they are even self-aware enough to realize it to begin with.
So lemme get this straight - the manager who decided all the peons had to work is not going to be there to make sure his staff are going along with his retarded plan? Is there any reason why anyone would, yanno, actually bother turning up.
Personally I'd be looking to stay at home, lie through my teeth and collect the overtime?
Yeah, so it won't be that simple, right? Someone will have to clock in/out for everyone? They'll all have to take a couple of minutes to stamp "approved" on every claim? If I wasn't going to spend the time looking for a better job I'd still be loathe to spend it actually working on general principle.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 12:38:49 PM
So lemme get this straight - the manager who decided all the peons had to work is not going to be there to make sure his staff are going along with his retarded plan? Is there any reason why anyone would, yanno, actually bother turning up.
Personally I'd be looking to stay at home, lie through my teeth and collect the overtime?
Yeah, so it won't be that simple, right? Someone will have to clock in/out for everyone? They'll all have to take a couple of minutes to stamp "approved" on every claim? If I wasn't going to spend the time looking for a better job I'd still be loathe to spend it actually working on general principle.
I believe the problem is that insurance analysts are legally obliged to actually examine the claim and if they are found negligent can be charged with fraud.
And they expect to be able to see how many reports you've gone through in a day.
I have no idea how the manager justifies not working herself, I assume by being too stupid to be able to breathe and self-reflect at the same time.
In that case, fuck it, call in sick. Seriously. By actually turning up the staff are rewarding this asshole for her stupidity when it negative reinforcement that is required.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
In that case, fuck it, call in sick. Seriously. By actually turning up the staff are rewarding this asshole for her stupidity when it negative reinforcement that is required.
Sick days have also been revoked; she's actually got a cold at the moment and has also been forcing herself in every week.
I fully agree that staff are ultimately enabling this behaviour, but choices are limited. It is not difficult to find new staff, it is difficult to find a new job.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
In that case, fuck it, call in sick. Seriously. By actually turning up the staff are rewarding this asshole for her stupidity when it negative reinforcement that is required.
Sick days have also been revoked; she's actually got a cold at the moment and has also been forcing herself in every week.
I fully agree that staff are ultimately enabling this behaviour, but choices are limited. It is not difficult to find new staff, it is difficult to find a new job.
Puking on the manager's desk is, I've found, an excellent way to be given permission (if not instruction) to go home.
Otherwise, I'd be forced to find entertaining things to do to the manager's office/desk/personal property while there. Taking a dump in a desk drawer springs to mind.
Sick days have been revoked? I have no idea what the fuck that ridiculous bullshit even means but I guess modern wage slavery has gotten at least as bad as the old fashioned non-wage kind of slavery that were outlawed all those years ago so I'll take your word for it.
Given that there's no legal recourse (unions, codes of practice etc...) are there illegal means? Maybe whacking a fire alarm enough times that they close the building, threatening the manager with ABH or something more subtle? Virusing the computer systems?
I can't imagine ever getting into that position but I'm pretty sure when they mentioned "sick days revoked" and 3 days notice to work the holidays that shit would get medieval pretty soon thereafter.
This is one of those things that really doesn't get a lot of press as related to this shitty economy. We hear a lot about the people who lost jobs, can't find jobs, etc., and rightfully so because that is awful.
But, there is this other thing where people are trapped in shitty jobs out of fear of not being able to find a different job. So they are stuck under fucked up bosses like this one. My wife has been in and out of this situation where she works. It sucks but what can you do? People still have to eat, have shelter, etc.
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 21, 2011, 01:24:00 PM
This is one of those things that really doesn't get a lot of press as related to this shitty economy. We hear a lot about the people who lost jobs, can't find jobs, etc., and rightfully so because that is awful.
But, there is this other thing where people are trapped in shitty jobs out of fear of not being able to find a different job. So they are stuck under fucked up bosses like this one. My wife has been in and out of this situation where she works. It sucks but what can you do? People still have to eat, have shelter, etc.
Exactly.
If she didn't have to contribute to the mortgage which costs more than the house, if she had savings, if she didn't have credit cards to pay off, if she could just walk into another job, she'd have just quit.
But we have to live in the real world. Her boss sees an opportunity to squeeze harder, and thinks that doing so will reward her more than having a team that actually want to work there.
I just hope she's wrong. Maybe she would be if the world was filled with more P3nts.
And that's the other piece. If bosses see even the slightest bit of "efficiency" in this kind of thing, they are going to keep rolling with it. If/when the economy truly gets rolling again, businesses will hire, but they certainly won't replace what they shed before this thing hit the iceberg. You'll see the headlines every know and again when the reports on productivity come out. And when it's up the markets go up. But that's bad news for workers.
Hrm... mind if I ask where you are, DS? Country and (if USA), state?
I'm not sure, but I would think that "mandatory overtime" and "cancelling sick days" would violate some sort of labor law. Especially if you signed a contract when you joined the company.
It's definitely illegal to "cancel sick days" but it's funny... illegal doesn't seem to mean as much as it used to when it comes to employers.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 11:45:07 AM
One thing about the times we live in is that they are testing. You can't really doubt that; things are tough all round, and you don't really know the character of someone until they are tested, I think.
A friend of mine was distraught last night, and I spent hours trying to console her as best I could. She was upset, because she works for an insurance company, and her boss has decided that because they have such a backlog of claims, she is cancelling all leave over the holiday period. Not just that, actually. My friend is going to be working forced overtime from the day after boxing day, right through to and including new years eve.
It is her job to go over claims for any evidence of fraud. Now, claims do go up at Christmas, and some of the time they are fraud claims, no argument there.
However, rather than working through the backlog calmly, now the pressure is being piled on. It is being done to meet targets, rather than because there is a pressing concern the claims won't be handled swiftly enough, and the net result is that the entire team, when they should be relaxing with their families...
Will be staring into the face of human misery, terrible events brought about by fate, carelessness, stupidity or greed.
Their work won't be better quality.
They won't be more vigilant.
They won't be more motivated.
They will be miserable, tired, resentful for having been forced to come into a work at a time they were looking forward to having off. And even worse that it is being cancelled just three days before it was due to happen.
The manager who made this decision, of course, will not be coming in.
This is the kind of evil that we are faced with every day. The petty-minded, stupid person who decides that they are 'making the tough decision', when the decision they make doesn't effect them one iota. They do it because they can, and because they expect to be rewarded for doing so. Completely uncaring about the damage they inflict on their team and the misery they inflict on the people underneath them., if they are even self-aware enough to realize it to begin with.
This will have the predictable effect: Shoddy work, increased sick calls, and outright sabotage.
Which will cause management to clamp down.
Rinse, repeat.
LMNO's Axiom. No exceptions.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 21, 2011, 01:40:38 PM
I'm not sure, but I would think that "mandatory overtime" and "cancelling sick days" would violate some sort of labor law. Especially if you signed a contract when you joined the company.
This is why I was wondering where they are. I was gonna dig into that.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 21, 2011, 01:24:00 PM
This is one of those things that really doesn't get a lot of press as related to this shitty economy. We hear a lot about the people who lost jobs, can't find jobs, etc., and rightfully so because that is awful.
But, there is this other thing where people are trapped in shitty jobs out of fear of not being able to find a different job. So they are stuck under fucked up bosses like this one. My wife has been in and out of this situation where she works. It sucks but what can you do? People still have to eat, have shelter, etc.
Exactly.
If she didn't have to contribute to the mortgage which costs more than the house, if she had savings, if she didn't have credit cards to pay off, if she could just walk into another job, she'd have just quit.
But we have to live in the real world. Her boss sees an opportunity to squeeze harder, and thinks that doing so will reward her more than having a team that actually want to work there.
I just hope she's wrong. Maybe she would be if the world was filled with more P3nts.
It's a matter of being prepared to cross lines when those lines only serve your opponent to your detriment. Problem is everyone is conditioned to not cross these lines and the fact that most wont is probably the only reason society doesn't fall apart completely. Most are of the opinion that laws should not be broken I'm of the same opinion but if the law doesn't protect me against fuckheads and evildoers then as far as I'm concerned it was broken before I went near it.
I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).
Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.
(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 02:17:18 PM
I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).
Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.
(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)
I don't think it is. It sounds essentially like vacation time which is something, unfortunately, companies can take away at will here in the U.S. It would be different if they were a contract employee and it was stated in their contract they get x number of days off. But I think that this is probably very legal.
Unethical and immoral for sure, but it probably passes the legal test.
It also guarantees that none of their intelligent employees will have a glimmer of loyalty.
In banking & insurance, that's mission accomplished.
Quote from: My Lady is a Cantaloupe on December 21, 2011, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 02:17:18 PM
I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).
Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.
(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)
I don't think it is. It sounds essentially like vacation time which is something, unfortunately, companies can take away at will here in the U.S. It would be different if they were a contract employee and it was stated in their contract they get x number of days off. But I think that this is probably very legal.
Unethical and immoral for sure, but it probably passes the legal test.
She definitely got her vacation time revoked; she told me about that before the sick thing, I thought they would be two different things. Possibly my bad.
Essential point is though; the recession gives employers more power over their employees. We now get to see people be unfeeling, immoral jerks just because they can. :sad:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 02:24:33 PM
It also guarantees that none of their intelligent employees will have a glimmer of loyalty.
In banking & insurance, that's mission accomplished.
Ouch. Yeah.
I've often wondered how such a sweet lady can be involved in insurance; I suppose someone, somewhere noticed this and decided to squash it out of her.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 02:17:18 PM
I'm in the UK - my friend is in the US, I'm not sure what the state is (though I can check when I get home tonight).
Checking my backscroll, what she said was: Sick. Went to work anyway since they revoked all my PTO through the end of the year.
(PTO = Paid Time Off I presume, the same thing as sick days?)
Some companies give sick days and vacation days, some just give PTO which is a bunch of time off that you can use however you wish. Usually adding up to at least two weeks of time (more if you've been there longer)
Plenty of places will tell you to use up PTO time before the end of the year because they won't roll it over, and sadly some think it's perfectly fine to take it away if there's only a week or two left so no one decides to call in during the end year rush.
PTO is also wonderful for companies because, at least in SOME states, if you terminate for ANY reason, you must be paid your vacation time due. (I have had to make out checks to "The Estate Of..." because they had time due.) A PTO bank is specifically not vacation.
They probably can't force her to work, but hey may be able to not pay her if she's out... unless she's sick enough to get a doctor to put her out on medical leave.
Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.
That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.
Quote from: Nigel on December 21, 2011, 05:33:42 PM
Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.
That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.
Board of Labor, not OSHA.
If she was promised PTO as part of her benefits package, and she had accrued PTO available, they cannot take that away, as it is considered compensation.
Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.
*unless I'm reading this all wrong
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.
*unless I'm reading this all wrong
Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.
*unless I'm reading this all wrong
Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.
It's a gamble, right enough. Reduce the odds by going it alone, maybe? Firing one person for taking a couple of days off (especially when they're already showing symptoms) is probably more of a can of worms than the company will want to open but, hey, this aint me we're talking about here. Manager would be too scared to leave the house without an armed escort if it was.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Nigel on December 21, 2011, 05:33:42 PM
Here's the thing. They are certainly breaking a law, but her options are limited. In a better job market she'd just get another job and bail (and I do hope she's looking) but otherwise, what she COULD do is file a complaint with OSHA. It would be technically, at that point, illegal for them to fire her for that, but they usually make up some other reason and do it anyway. Then she could retain a lawyer and sue them, and also file a grievance with the State to try to get them to pay her unemployment benefits.
That could take a while. At least a year for the lawsuit. She would probably win, but all the not-getting-paid in between would likely mean she would lose her house, so it's kind of a hollow victory.
Board of Labor, not OSHA.
If she was promised PTO as part of her benefits package, and she had accrued PTO available, they cannot take that away, as it is considered compensation.
Board of labor also, but because it falls under the "health" umbrella, OSHA also investigates violation of sick leave laws because one sick employee who is comes to work due to coercive policies puts the entire staff at risk. And in my experience, OSHA is much quicker to investigate and a lot less lenient than the Board of Labor.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 21, 2011, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 21, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
Missing the big point ITT. This isn't a PTO issue this is mandatory overtime, ie. she wouldn't have been working or getting paid for it so missing out on the overtime shouldn't be an issue*. Srsly - get the whole office to pull a sickie and FFS make sure everyone comes down with the most fucked up, obscure ailment you can find in the medical dictionary. Just so the manager gets the message loud and clear.
*unless I'm reading this all wrong
Right now, they'd probably fire the whole crew if necessary, and fill the joint up with temps.
It's a gamble, right enough. Reduce the odds by going it alone, maybe? Firing one person for taking a couple of days off (especially when they're already showing symptoms) is probably more of a can of worms than the company will want to open but, hey, this aint me we're talking about here. Manager would be too scared to leave the house without an armed escort if it was.
This is America, Pent. Nobody actually gets scared about shit like that, unless they can't run faster than a mobility scooter.
Quote from: Demolition_Squid on December 21, 2011, 02:27:20 PM
Essential point is though; the recession gives employers more power over their employees. We now get to see people be unfeeling, immoral jerks just because they can. :sad:
Yep, fucking monkeys.
As a possible minor point of consolation, manager's bosses tend to shit on them too. You might ask about how that process can be facilitated.
It's amazingly easy to make yourself sick without actually endangering your life.
On the first day you take plenty of laxatives and try to do your job as good as possible.
You will spend a lot of time on the toilet but your go-getting attitude will convince the boss that you really want to work.
If the boss doesn't tell you to go home start sneaking laxatives into the company coffee/watercooler/donuts so the 'disease' spreads.
If that gives no result in 3 days try to put laxatives in your boss's foodstuffs.