Several bands I listen to that are distinctly NOT punk rock bands have songs that could be considered "punk", in terms of attitude (and in some cases, even musical style).
Examples:
Talking Heads
Love for Sale
Psycho Killer
Life During Wartime
P!nk
So What
Elton John
Screw You <--- Arguably more blues, but still.
Obviously not punk artists at all. But are those songs (or ones like them) themselves punk?
Id say yes. One of the songs i do vocals on is considered by the band to be punk. I wrote the lyrics as more of a filler song but they wanted to use it.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 26, 2012, 05:44:32 PM
Id say yes. One of the songs i do vocals on is considered by the band to be punk. I wrote the lyrics as more of a filler song but they wanted to use it.
Talking Heads in particular. David Byrne has a way of making you feel just as nuts as he sounds.
Talking Heads was part of NYC '77, so I usually think of them as Punk, regardless. Most of that punk style wouldn't be recognized as such, these days. Hell, I heard tell some snot nosed poser claimed the Clash wasn't "really" punk a while back. Too bad there wasn't much to send back to the family.
As much as I know you love P!nk, calling that punk doesn't really sit well with me -- although, the chances are good that Tim Armstrong (Operation Ivy, Rancid) helped write it, so you at least have only one degree of separation.
I don't think I've heard that Elton track, but that guy's been flipping off the Man for decades, so why the hell not.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 05:49:11 PM
Talking Heads was part of NYC '77, so I usually think of them as Punk, regardless. Most of that punk style wouldn't be recognized as such, these days. Hell, I heard tell some snot nosed poser claimed the Clash wasn't "really" punk a while back. Too bad there wasn't much to send back to the family.
As much as I know you love P!nk, calling that punk doesn't really sit well with me -- although, the chances are good that Tim Armstrong (Operation Ivy, Rancid) helped write it, so you at least have only one degree of separation.
I don't think I've heard that Elton track, but that guy's been flipping off the Man for decades, so why the hell not.
1. That's one of Elton John's "lost" works, though you can find it on Youtube.
2. Inre: The Clash thing. I was in the dentist's office a number of years ago (2005 or so), and the bastard had MTV on the TV in the waiting room. This would be horrible enough in itself, but there was the stupid fucking "shout out" video interruptions, and this airhead screams out something about Green Day "pioneering punk rock". I wanted to go up a fucking water tower.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 05:49:11 PM
As much as I know you love P!nk, calling that punk doesn't really sit well with me -- although, the chances are good that Tim Armstrong (Operation Ivy, Rancid) helped write it, so you at least have only one degree of separation.
P!nk is DEFINITELY not Punk...She's more what I call "Bad Wiring". But that one song is, IMO, a little bit punk.
The Talking Heads are a direct result of Providence.
That should tell you everything.
Elton John totally has a punk attitude toward things, and Pink gives me a headache, so that COULD be punk, maybe. I mean, I was always told that punk was more of an attitude than musical style.
Quote from: Suu on July 26, 2012, 05:56:37 PM
The Talking Heads are a direct result of Providence.
Um.
Suu's right, they went to RISD.
Also, P!nk's line 'I'm still a rock star" kind of undercuts the punk ethos.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 05:59:24 PM
Suu's right, they went to RISD.
*sigh* I know, I know.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 05:59:24 PM
Also, P!nk's line 'I'm still a rock star" kind of undercuts the punk ethos.
I would think that would be more of an "alternative" or "ska" ethos. I've heard of ONE "punk" band that ever turned down a recording contract.
:twitch:
thats like saying that slipknot are pioneering in metal
But who exactly pioneered punk?
I mean, it's easy to say The Who and The Kinks, but even at times The Beatles were downright "punk". Elvis, the way he shook his ass? Totally punk for the period.
Punk isn't always "punk rock".
That was more in ref to the green day thing. But that is a good distinction are we talking musical style or attitude or a combination?
P!nk does have quite a "I don't give a flying fuck" attitude...but her music style is pop.
This is when labels get muddy.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 05:52:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 05:49:11 PM
Talking Heads was part of NYC '77, so I usually think of them as Punk, regardless. Most of that punk style wouldn't be recognized as such, these days. Hell, I heard tell some snot nosed poser claimed the Clash wasn't "really" punk a while back. Too bad there wasn't much to send back to the family.
As much as I know you love P!nk, calling that punk doesn't really sit well with me -- although, the chances are good that Tim Armstrong (Operation Ivy, Rancid) helped write it, so you at least have only one degree of separation.
I don't think I've heard that Elton track, but that guy's been flipping off the Man for decades, so why the hell not.
1. That's one of Elton John's "lost" works, though you can find it on Youtube.
2. Inre: The Clash thing. I was in the dentist's office a number of years ago (2005 or so), and the bastard had MTV on the TV in the waiting room. This would be horrible enough in itself, but there was the stupid fucking "shout out" video interruptions, and this airhead screams out something about Green Day "pioneering punk rock". I wanted to go up a fucking water tower.
WHAT?!?! I'm surprised nobody's gone up the MTV rooftop with an assault rifle. :x :x :x
BTW, I suspect there's a REASON people don't quite let themselves be fingered as punk post-1980. They learned to keep moving. (http://www.ugo.com/music/meat-puppets-question)
If somebody told me, in person, that Green Day "pioneered" anything, I would unleash an incredible amount of unholy wrath upon them.
Well to be fair they pioneered green day carbon copies....
Which I wouldn't call their fault directly, other than existing. Though I owned my copy of "Dookie" just like every other kid in middle school.
I could not stand that "punk revival" shit that hit when I was in college. Thanks to them and Hot Topic, scene kids spawned, which then grew up into hipsters. My sister fell into that fucking trap. I'm so glad she outgrew it.
Yeah- after i stopped listening to green day is when i started listening to older stuff. Radio started to irk me after that point.
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 26, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 26, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
But who exactly pioneered punk?
The Ramones?
The sound, or the ethos?
The ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 26, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 26, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
But who exactly pioneered punk?
The Ramones?
The sound, or the ethos?
The ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.
Lord Buckley.
I dunno, probably more the sound though of course they weren't the only ones but you definitely hear a lot of Ramones-like riffing in some of the bands that followed.
And I really like the Ramones and just wanted to name-drop. ;)
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
The ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
For non-mythological beings, Diogenes of Sinope was also very punk.
Beethoven was the first punk rocker.
Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).
Anyone that doesn't know anything about the Crass/Exploited rivalry needs some schoolin'.
As far as Greenday goes, I've seen them pwn entire festivals filled with so-called punk bands. Setting their gear on fire, escalating the crowds to a point that they broke down the fences. You know you're not punk when Greenday out-bad-asses you. But pioneered? I don't think so. Not punk, anyhow.
Punk rock is all about being pissed. Case for Beethoven:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unwFFeNTjQ
Musically speaking, the first punk rocker that comes to mind is Buddy Holly.
Attitudinally speaking, the first punk rocker that comes to mind is the biblical Eve.
At a certain point that definition seems to get a bit brittle. You can do the same with Metal. There is the obvious discussion of bands that SOUND metal, but then you can also talk about someone being metal. For example some have described classical artists like Beehtoven, and especially Wagner, as being metal.
So what's the difference between being (attitudinally) punk and metal?
Where's Dimo? He can settle this shit.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 05:23:10 AM
Beethoven was the first punk rocker.
Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).
Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable, If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well.. You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap. And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.
Quote from: Pixie on July 27, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.
And then Suu challenged Pixie to a duel.
But srsly Dimo, fuck the Clash? Have you been reading Lester Bangs again?
Quote from: Pixie on July 27, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 05:23:10 AM
Beethoven was the first punk rocker.
Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).
Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable, If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well.. You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap. And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.
Pix, punk and reggae both descended from ska. The Clash, as awesome as they were, were only "pioneers" to white people who had never heard of Jamaica.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 27, 2012, 03:02:38 PM
Quote from: Pixie on July 27, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.
And then Suu challenged Pixie to a duel.
Meh, she's allowed her opinion.
The only person who I deliberately give shit to about music is ECH, but it's become one of our favorite pastimes.
Quote from: Echo Chamber Music on July 27, 2012, 03:16:19 PM
Quote from: Pixie on July 27, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 05:23:10 AM
Beethoven was the first punk rocker.
Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).
Seriously? The Clash are pure London punk. Bands like Rancid, and the Ska Punk genre would pretty much not exist without the fusion of punk and reggae that was what they pioneered, and was a utterly British, wouldn't have happened in any other geographical location. You may not like them, but their influence is undeniable, If you had said "fuck the Sex Pistols!" I would have said "hells yea!", but The Clash? For the British music scene from 1977 onwards, they have influenced a lot of the different genres of music that came out of the UK between then and the late 1990's. and not just rock music, but dance genres as well.. You take The Clash out of the British music scene and all you'd have left is commercialised soulless crap. And Prog Rock, which I cannot stand.
Pix, punk and reggae both descended from ska. The Clash, as awesome as they were, were only "pioneers" to white people who had never heard of Jamaica.
I shall concede your point there.
Still, the Clash are responsible for broadening a whole load of white kid's horizons, which isn't a bad thing at all.
"CBS promotes the Clash, but it aint for revolution, it's just for cash" - Crass, Punk is Dead
Fake punk is fake, even if it is early fake punk.
And, yeah, fuck the Sex Pistols, as well. Them and The Clash were just fishing for the angsty-teen dollar.
Once more: Crass and Exploited is what early punk is all about. Can't handle that brute fact? Keep spinning your cotton-candy Clash records.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 26, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 26, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
But who exactly pioneered punk?
The Ramones?
The sound, or the ethos?
The ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.
One could make an argument that "Sister Ray" by the Velvet Underground was a punk song, but yeah. Actually, I've never heard of Blue Cheer... something to go look up...
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 26, 2012, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 26, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on July 26, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
But who exactly pioneered punk?
The Ramones?
The sound, or the ethos?
The ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.
Lord Buckley.
FUCK YES.
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
Rock the Cashbox?
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:30:35 PM
And, yeah, fuck the Sex Pistols, as well. Them and The Clash were just fishing for the angsty-teen dollar.
Once more: Crass and Exploited is what early punk is all about. Can't handle that brute fact? Keep spinning your cotton-candy Clash records.
Crass and Exploited were fun bands, but to me they're more the "fake" punk than the Clash was. I guess it depends on whether you view "punk" as being a "voice for the underclass" thing or a "we're tired of listening to our parents" thing.
Either way, it all descended from Buddy Holly.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 27, 2012, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
Rock the Cashbox?
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: Exactly.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 27, 2012, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
Rock the Cashbox?
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: Exactly.
I also apologize if that's stuck in everyone's head now like it is in mine.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
That is 50 shades of retarded.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:02:59 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
My personal vote would be for the Stooges... MC5 was fucking amazing, but there was a change in attitude/mindset with the Stooges... I can't imagine Fred Sonic Smith crowd surfing and rubbing peanut butter all over his bare chest.
And Dimo, if Patti Smith and Television are punk, then so are the Clash... and they are. They fucking are.
Nope on all accounts... I will fist-fight this point. The Clash were pioneers in modern marketing. That is all.
That is 50 shades of retarded.
Derp
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone claiming the sky is red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone over the sky being red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Nuh uh. He's Italian. You'd never get the gel off of your hands.
Plus, if it's punk, it must end in violence.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone over the sky being red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Nuh uh. He's Italian. You'd never get the gel off of your hands.
Plus, if it's punk, it must end in violence.
Or PROFIT!
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone over the sky being red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Nuh uh. He's Italian. You'd never get the gel off of your hands.
Plus, if it's punk, it must end in violence.
Or PROFIT!
*looks around*
Demonstrate a practical difference.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone over the sky being red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Nuh uh. He's Italian. You'd never get the gel off of your hands.
Plus, if it's punk, it must end in violence.
Or PROFIT!
http://www.theprofits.org/
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:12:16 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:11:46 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone over the sky being red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Nuh uh. He's Italian. You'd never get the gel off of your hands.
Plus, if it's punk, it must end in violence.
Or PROFIT!
*looks around*
Demonstrate a practical difference.
Touché.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone claiming the sky is red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Right, because defining a bands level of "punk-ness" is an objectively quantifiable process.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 05:13:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 05:04:52 PM
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
It would be like fighting with someone claiming the sky is red. You just pat them on the head and go make a sandwich.
Right, because defining a bands level of "punk-ness" is an objectively quantifiable process.
That's why you're here.
Lay down the law.
So, let me get theis straight:
Crass' message was, "Fuck the man, fuck the government, fuck society."
Clash's message was, "Fuck the man, fuck the governmnet, fuck society."
So the Clash got a bigged record contract, because they could actually write a hook. You seem to be butthurt because Mick Jones knew what a "melody" is.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 27, 2012, 05:14:32 PM
So, let me get theis straight:
Crass' message was, "Fuck the man, fuck the government, fuck society."
Clash's message was, "Fuck the man, fuck the governmnet, fuck society."
So the Clash got a bigged record contract, because they could actually write a hook. You seem to be butthurt because Mick Jones knew what a "melody" is.
Derp. Clash's message was "Fuck the Gov't, but please be a respectful, good little boy about it." They were like the Democrats of today. Afraid to TAKE IT TO THE FUCKING WALL.
Sorry guys, I don't like The Clash. I think they're a bunch of posers. Not my fault y'all take my dislike for a band that none of you were in as a personal attack.
/inflammatory
I don't even really care all that much for the Clash. I was more offended by the implication that Patti Smith wasn't punk. I curb-stomped an old lady for saying something similar once.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:23:30 PM
I don't even really care all that much for the Clash. I was more offended by the implication that Patti Smith wasn't punk. I curb-stomped an old lady for saying something similar once.
Sounds reasonable.
To be fair, Debbie Harry had it coming.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on July 27, 2012, 05:26:32 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:23:30 PM
I don't even really care all that much for the Clash. I was more offended by the implication that Patti Smith wasn't punk. I curb-stomped an old lady for saying something similar once.
Sounds reasonable.
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
To be fair, Debbie Harry had it coming.
:potd:
Quote from: Hoopla on July 27, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
To be fair, Debbie Harry had it coming.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: I was waiting for someone to bring up Blondie.
She pioneered punk just as much as she pioneered hip-hop. ie: not at all.
GreenDay were just posers. No one could play punk like Blink-182. 8)
On a more serious note, while the progression of music is certainly an interesting topic, we could play the game of who the most selling-outest band is all day. Not gonna lie, I certainly have my opinion on crappy music and manufactured crap, but when it comes down to it, if music touches a chord that brings about feeling in me, upto and especially laughter, then good for me.
So if blaring Rock the Casbah as I drive down the street makes me not punk enough, so be it, kiss my ass.
Course, I'd be happy as a clam plugged into non-stop Primus, so, there's that
Fuck you guys. Debbie Harry makes my pance tight.
This thread makes Bobby Lock the Snackbar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mqKKWIsYOk).
Quote from: Net on July 27, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
This thread makes Bobby Lock the Snackbar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mqKKWIsYOk).
:lulz: :lulz:
that was great
Interesting to hear a bunch of rock archaeologists saying things like fuck the Sex Pistols. Easy to say, I guess, when you have hindsight and the benefit of not being there while it was happening. For those of us who were and actually remember the shit that went down in the UK back then, the pistols were punking the shit out of the establishment, generating mass hysteria amongst the middle classes and most of it was completely by design. They infected the music industry like a motherfucking virus with a deliberate quasi political agenda and, in the space of a year or so, turned the entire fucking country upside down, with a clarion call of "Fuck you Great Britian" and inspired a generation to pick up the flag and take that shit to the wall in all sorts of interesting and, at times, inspired ways.
But yeah, Malcom made a fuckton of cash out of it, Sid went out in a blaze of morphine and Johnny got a job as a margarine salesman, ergo they're not a bunch of middle class twenty somethings, in a basement, 30 years after the fact, proclaiming that they'd never sell out and make a fuckton of cash, drugs and notoriety for themselves, ergo they're not punk. :kingmeh:
All I have to say is - you should have been there. It was spectacular. While vast tracts of the establishment were going up in flames it was the Sex Pistols who were holding the fucking petrol can and looking shifty.
Quote from: The Dead Reverend Roger on July 27, 2012, 07:59:45 PM
Fuck you guys. Debbie Harry makes my pance tight.
She always had the smarts along with the hawts. You don't see that anymore. :sad:
I still listen to Blondie. Fuck all y'all. :p
Sex Pistols were as you say, Pent. But they couldn't play. Not that it really made a fuck at the time. :lol:
They couldn't play because Sid, in his role as half of the rhythm section, fucked it up for everybody. Personally I think the decision to stick him on bass was the single most genius thing that Malcolm ever did. The rest of the band, however, were solid as fuck and the singles and Bollox album are pure fucking gold. I also have a soft spot for the Swindle, especially My Way and Friggin in the Riggin but that might be more down to guilty pleasure than classic punk.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on July 29, 2012, 10:47:46 AM
They couldn't play because Sid, in his role as half of the rhythm section, fucked it up for everybody. Personally I think the decision to stick him on bass was the single most genius thing that Malcolm ever did. The rest of the band, however, were solid as fuck and the singles and Bollox album are pure fucking gold. I also have a soft spot for the Swindle, especially My Way and Friggin in the Riggin but that might be more down to guilty pleasure than classic punk.
Frigging In The Rigging is one of my favourite songs to sing when pished.
and I once sang the Sid version of My Way on a toilet in Palm Springs.
Sid and Johnny interview on the radio station that banned their no1 single - comedy gold (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtEGoX7MS2E) Yeah - I know it officially placed 2nd but the chart was rigged
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 26, 2012, 07:40:21 PMThe ethos has been around for a long time. Prometheus was a punk.
For saying "fuck you" to the Man?
Doesn't that mean the
other Lightbringer is also a punk, then?
...
And does
that mean that Death Metal is basically songs about punk-worshipping?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on July 29, 2012, 10:47:46 AM
They couldn't play because Sid, in his role as half of the rhythm section, fucked it up for everybody. Personally I think the decision to stick him on bass was the single most genius thing that Malcolm ever did. The rest of the band, however, were solid as fuck and the singles and Bollox album are pure fucking gold. I also have a soft spot for the Swindle, especially My Way and Friggin in the Riggin but that might be more down to guilty pleasure than classic punk.
True, it was Sid.
Never really figured out if keeping him in spite of the way his playing sucked was a punk thing to do ("Fuck you, we don't give a fuck"), or just kind of a sellout thing. ("He's fucking nuts, he's the show.")
Death metals not particularly satanic as far as other kinds of metal go. However metal is what it is today due to punk influence in the mid to late seventies. Otherwise wed probably play slow bluesy music to get high to still.
Death Metal are usually songs about... you know... death, gore and other assorted horrors.
Not much Lightbringer worship in Cannibal Corpse & Six Feet Under.
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
Mostly Black Metal. A sub genre which owes A LOT to punk rock. :)
Yep. You might get occasional satanic themed songs in death metal. But you get that with black sabbath too. Black metals mission statement is to be evil. A lot of black metallers are also vegetarian. Because cauliflower is grim as fuck. But back to the punk influence punk gave metal its fast tempos. Iron maiden started out as a metal band with heavy punk influence.
It is also worth noting that punk tends to be antiauthoritarian. Metal was meant to be the blues meets a horror movie.
Metal has expanded quite a bit over the past four decades. Certainly there is a good portion of it that has been informed by punk, but there is also a good chunk of it that I would posit has little to know lineage involving punk. I'm thinking of the symphonic, power metal strains of metal that are more rooted in classical masters like Wagner. Same with some of the more symphonic strains of black metal.
As far as the Satan angle. Black metal certainly but there has been Satanism in other forms of Metal, including the Elvis-Metal of Danzig, who obviously was very influenced by punk given his tenure in prior punk bands. There are some pretty Satanic death metal bands too, Deicide being the first that comes to mind.
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 29, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
King Diamond was supposed to be a practicing Satanist but I always just LOL'ed at his shit. "No Presents For Christmas"? :lol:
Slayer's got a lot of hell-and-the-devil stuff.
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 30, 2012, 12:30:02 AM
Metal has expanded quite a bit over the past four decades. Certainly there is a good portion of it that has been informed by punk, but there is also a good chunk of it that I would posit has little to know lineage involving punk. I'm thinking of the symphonic, power metal strains of metal that are more rooted in classical masters like Wagner. Same with some of the more symphonic strains of black metal.
As far as the Satan angle. Black metal certainly but there has been Satanism in other forms of Metal, including the Elvis-Metal of Danzig, who obviously was very influenced by punk given his tenure in prior punk bands. There are some pretty Satanic death metal bands too, Deicide being the first that comes to mind.
I forgot about Danzig. But, the point that Waffles and myself are getting at is that while there are satanic Death Metallers, and other types of Metallers, it's not inherently Satanic. A lot just kinda dabble with the image for a song here and there, but otherwise don't bother. I mean, hell, Iron Maiden wrote a song about the number 666 and Nicko is a born-again Christian.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 30, 2012, 01:20:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 29, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
King Diamond was supposed to be a practicing Satanist but I always just LOL'ed at his shit. "No Presents For Christmas"? :lol:
Slayer's got a lot of hell-and-the-devil stuff.
I forgot about King Diamond. A friend of mine was into him and tried to get me to listen to some of his stuff. The falsetto shrieking made me want to punch him through the headphones.
Also, I'm going to start up a new thread, so as not to spag up the punk with metal. I'mma quote this as the OP.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 30, 2012, 01:24:51 AM
Quote from: Gen. Disregard on July 30, 2012, 12:30:02 AM
Metal has expanded quite a bit over the past four decades. Certainly there is a good portion of it that has been informed by punk, but there is also a good chunk of it that I would posit has little to know lineage involving punk. I'm thinking of the symphonic, power metal strains of metal that are more rooted in classical masters like Wagner. Same with some of the more symphonic strains of black metal.
As far as the Satan angle. Black metal certainly but there has been Satanism in other forms of Metal, including the Elvis-Metal of Danzig, who obviously was very influenced by punk given his tenure in prior punk bands. There are some pretty Satanic death metal bands too, Deicide being the first that comes to mind.
I forgot about Danzig. But, the point that Waffles and myself are getting at is that while there are satanic Death Metallers, and other types of Metallers, it's not inherently Satanic. A lot just kinda dabble with the image for a song here and there, but otherwise don't bother. I mean, hell, Iron Maiden wrote a song about the number 666 and Nicko is a born-again Christian.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 30, 2012, 01:20:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 29, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
King Diamond was supposed to be a practicing Satanist but I always just LOL'ed at his shit. "No Presents For Christmas"? :lol:
Slayer's got a lot of hell-and-the-devil stuff.
I forgot about King Diamond. A friend of mine was into him and tried to get me to listen to some of his stuff. The falsetto shrieking made me want to punch him through the headphones.
Also, I'm going to start up a new thread, so as not to spag up the punk with metal. I'mma quote this as the OP.
Cool. And yeah, KD was an assclown. :lulz:
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 30, 2012, 01:20:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 29, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
King Diamond was supposed to be a practicing Satanist but I always just LOL'ed at his shit. "No Presents For Christmas"? :lol:
Slayer's got a lot of hell-and-the-devil stuff.
Tom Araya is a Catholic.
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 29, 2012, 09:59:43 PM
It is also worth noting that punk tends to be antiauthoritarian. Metal was meant to be the blues meets a horror movie.
"War Pigs," "Dirty Deeds", "Breaking the Law", "The Prisoner", "Jailbreak"
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 30, 2012, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: Bruce Twiddleton on July 29, 2012, 09:59:43 PM
It is also worth noting that punk tends to be antiauthoritarian. Metal was meant to be the blues meets a horror movie.
"War Pigs," "Dirty Deeds", "Breaking the Law", "The Prisoner", "Jailbreak"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_fODduUkk4
Good music is
good music, pick your own instrument, pick your own tunes, everything else is bullshit and people telling you what you should like, why you should like it and what it means.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on July 30, 2012, 01:20:17 AM
Quote from: Triple Zero on July 29, 2012, 09:40:13 PM
Well, I wanted to know which kind of metal was the satanic one and Wikipedia said it was Death Metal, and it's really not the point but now I do wonder which one *is* it that has all the satanic lyrics and such, then?
King Diamond was supposed to be a practicing Satanist but I always just LOL'ed at his shit. "No Presents For Christmas"? :lol:
Slayer's got a lot of hell-and-the-devil stuff.
Slayer's "satanic" stuff is all political allegory couched in terms the average 17 year old hesher can understand.