http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/25/16693367-north-korea-sanctions-by-south-would-be-declaration-of-war?lite
:lulz:
Well, I'm glad to see that the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea is living up to the usual problems with names in The People's Democratic Republic of Korea.
Quote from: Cain on January 25, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
Well, I'm glad to see that the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea is living up to the usual problems with names in The People's Democratic Republic of Korea.
Funny thing is, they've sort of backed themselves into a corner, here. After a statement like that, they HAVE to act if South Korea goes with the sanctions...Or forfeit all the credibility they don't have with the wider world.
is there any reason to think that this new Il will carry through on his sabre rattling any more than the last Il?
haven't the made direct threats and then forfeited credibility before?
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on January 25, 2013, 08:01:08 PM
is there any reason to think that this new Il will carry through on his sabre rattling any more than the last Il?
haven't the made direct threats and then forfeited credibility before?
Well, yeah. That's why I said the credibility they DON'T have.
oic. :lol:
i sure as hell am glad that there's some international comic relief to make sure that the US isn't the most retarded nation on earth...
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
that is an awesome pic, Nigel.
and, i'm sure the norks understand this and will not actually do anything that (at lease they think) will result in an actual conflict of that sort...
it is my belief/understanding that they play crazy because it seems to work for them, not because they actually are.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on January 25, 2013, 09:38:48 PM
that is an awesome pic, Nigel.
and, i'm sure the norks understand this and will not actually do anything that (at lease they think) will result in an actual conflict of that sort...
it is my belief/understanding that they play crazy because it seems to work for them, not because they actually are.
IF they actually attempt an invasion, they're going to get stopped cold at the DMZ. Then they'll get cute and try to blow a hole through the defense network.
Then cancel Christmas. I think they're smart enough to see this, and they're just talking shit.
yeppa.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
It's some scary shit, because the problem is that the leadership of North Korea seems to be BATSHIT INSANE.
One of the problems with a government that crazy having nukes is that they could conceivably do something that would fuck the whole world over like nuking the Van Allen belts.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
It's some scary shit, because the problem is that the leadership of North Korea seems to be BATSHIT INSANE.
One of the problems with a government that crazy having nukes is that they could conceivably do something that would fuck the whole world over like nuking the Van Allen belts.
No delivery system. They can basically drive a truck up to the target and set it off.
The problem isn't their rockets or aircraft, it's the size of their nukes...Which have also proven to be unreliable themselves.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
It's some scary shit, because the problem is that the leadership of North Korea seems to be BATSHIT INSANE.
One of the problems with a government that crazy having nukes is that they could conceivably do something that would fuck the whole world over like nuking the Van Allen belts.
No delivery system. They can basically drive a truck up to the target and set it off.
The problem isn't their rockets or aircraft, it's the size of their nukes...Which have also proven to be unreliable themselves.
Well, they have rockets now: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16669567-north-korea-rocket-launches-nuclear-tests-will-target-us?lite
and the question isn't whether they have the ability right now, it's whether they continue to develop their technology (which is exactly what all of this is about) to the point where they will have it in the future.
Well, yeah, they've HAD rockets. Thing is, their bombs weigh TONS.
Right now, it's a race between them developing proper nukes (doesn't take long, once you have the initial tech, but I don't think they're there yet), and their nation starving itself out of existence.
Doesn't that kind of choice just make you love domesticated primates?
It's also worth noting, this is the 45th year anniversary of the Blue House Raid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_House_Raid).
tl;dr version: crack commandos from the North Korean Unit 124 infiltrated South Korea, took part in a military parade, bypassed several checkpoints and tried to assassinate Park Chung-hee.
Also notable for the way they were busted by a bunch of woodcutters, who they took hostage for several hours and subjected them to several extremely long, boring speeches on the inevitable moral superiority and historical processes by which Communism would come to rule the world. The woodcutters, duly impressed, reported them to the authorities once freed.
Also notable for the South Korean response, the creation of Unit 684, with the purpose of assassinating Kim Il-Sung. The unit was disbanded before going operational, causing them to try and assassinate Park Chung-hee instead. Most commited suicide via hand grenade when stopped by the South Korean military.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 10:31:21 PM
Well, yeah, they've HAD rockets. Thing is, their bombs weigh TONS.
Right now, it's a race between them developing proper nukes (doesn't take long, once you have the initial tech, but I don't think they're there yet), and their nation starving itself out of existence.
Doesn't that kind of choice just make you love domesticated primates?
:horrormirth:
So, this just got fun (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/11/world/asia/north-korea-armistice/index.html):
QuoteThe North Korean army has declared invalid the armistice agreement that ended the Korean War in 1953, the official newspaper of the country's ruling Workers' Party said Monday.
Since last week, North Korea had been threatening to scrap the armistice after the U.N. Security Council passed tougher sanctions against it in response to its February 12 nuclear test.
On Monday, the Rodong Sinmun newspaper reported that the Supreme Command of North Korea's army had done so.
And there is this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21737859):
QuoteThe US and South Korea have begun annual military drills amid high tensions with North Korea in the wake of a UN sanctions vote.
Pyongyang has strongly condemned the exercises, threatening to scrap the armistice that ended the Korean War.
Seoul says North Korea also appears to have carried out a threat made last week to sever a cross-border hotline.
The drills come days after the UN approved new sanctions on North Korea following its nuclear test in February.
The test last month was the communist country's third. It followed an apparently successful launch in December of a three-stage rocket, seen as a banned test of missile technology.
North Korea's neighbours and the US fear it is working to build a nuclear warhead small enough to put on a missile, but believe it does not yet have the capabilities to do so.
But South Korean generals don't seem to think it is too serious (http://nwww.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130311000608):
QuoteLocal newspapers have reported that dozens of teams of military officials, including generals, played golf at a military golf course on Saturday and Sunday, sparking criticism that it is wrong for them to play at a time when they need to be on standby to handle tensions with the North.
All North Korea needs is a friend.
North Korea is kind of like Earth's Steve.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hbk0y1nocN0/T55KUXOCncI/AAAAAAAAFPU/6OXPk84K8cQ/s1600/north+and+south+korea.jpg)
There's apparently a new kim-jong around too.
You know you're fucking up when even china is exasperated with you. CHINA.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/28/north-korea-prepares-rockets-for-strike-against-u-s/
From where I'm sitting, someone needs to just slap that stupid little fuck around the head until he quits being an asshole. Politics doesn't allow for this. Ergo politics is rubbish!
Jong-Un's not in charge (http://newfocusintl.com/how-real-are-the-recent-north-korean-threats/).
It seems the KPA has wrested back power from Kyong-hui/Sung-taek. Or is attempting to, and is using international provocation to strengthen their hand internally.
Interestingly i had considered that this was probably due to some sort of internal politics matter. The names are meaningless to of and hard for me to remember. But i imagine that youve become an influence on how i perceive stuff like this.
It's always a good idea to factor in domestic and elite perception issues when it comes to foreign policy analysis. You can understand some events without doing either...but only in the most facile and abstract of ways.
Yeah. I cant really see much of a foreign policy purpose to this. And by that i mean i cant see what north korea as a whole seeks to gain with this so i figured there was some sort of internal matter influencing this
Rumours that Jang Song-taek tried to stage a coup against Kim Jong-un are making the rounds (http://www.rjkoehler.com/2013/03/29/rumors-of-failed-pyongyang-coup-attempt-involving-norths-no-2/).
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/32dba90a9fa77bb1716696cc2fc9eff2/tumblr_mkgfuqJ33f1qbfokko2_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/26345e6d42297562016af3ae94cedcdf/tumblr_mkgfuqJ33f1qbfokko1_500.jpg)
Quote from: MMMW on March 31, 2013, 04:50:40 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/32dba90a9fa77bb1716696cc2fc9eff2/tumblr_mkgfuqJ33f1qbfokko2_500.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/26345e6d42297562016af3ae94cedcdf/tumblr_mkgfuqJ33f1qbfokko1_500.jpg)
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: YOINKED.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/31/17543980-us-navy-shifts-destroyer-in-wake-of-north-korea-missile-threats?lite
QuoteAs North Korean state TV shows constant images of the army bombarding South Korea, North Korea's leader Kim Jong Un is saying his missiles are at the ready and has cut off emergency communications. NBC's Richard Engel reports.
<snip>
The White House on Monday said the United States hasn't seen large-scale movements from North Korean military forces in the aftermath of harsh rhetoric from the reclusive government.
"I would note that despite the harsh rhetoric we are hearing from Pyongyang, we are not seeing changes to the North Korean military posture, such as large-scale mobilizations and positioning of forces," Carney said
Whatever the North Koreans have in mind, they've already done, or at least initiated.
I can think of a few horrible ideas. A nuke in a shipping container going into LA, for example, or one in a truck near the DMZ, to be followed by an attack right out of the barracks (something NK has practiced for decades), ie, from peacetime operations to an offensive within 24-36 hours.
It won't work, but a lot of people could get dead while that gets proven.
Also, 10,000 points for rhetoric:
QuoteIn North Korea, meanwhile, KCNA reported on an Easter service at which it said "the participants renewed the firm resolution to put the warmongers [the US and South Korea] into the red hot iron-pot of hell as early as possible."
I put evildoers in the red-hot iron pot of hell whenever I can fit it into my busy schedule.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22011207
"If you come any closer I'll punch myself AGAIN"
Well, it's still better than it being the other way around.
The tone is a little panicked considering they are apparently letting them leave.
I really don't get this. If the trade area is much more vital for the North, why would the South ever bother to return?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
I can't stand it. I've been (:horrormirth:) joking about this on fb all week because I can't stand to look at it, Rog.
Quote from: navkat: navkat of...navkat! on April 03, 2013, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 25, 2013, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on January 25, 2013, 09:27:31 PM
This is one of the most unexpectedly beautiful pictures I've seen lately:
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/130124-nk-us-530a.380;380;7;70;0.jpg)
Also, I'm concerned that North Korea is going to end up getting itself nuked, and wondering what the consequences of that would be.
Well, if they nuke the DMZ, there's no question that Pyongyang meets the stratosphere within 12 hours.
And what would that mean?
About 3 million deaths, within a month or two of the city being hit. In addition to whatever they inflicted.
The threat is funny, the possible outcomes are not.
I can't stand it. I've been (:horrormirth:) joking about this on fb all week because I can't stand to look at it, Rog.
But it's the future we demanded. :?
And the knock on effects in South Korea (aside from nuclear fallout, of course) won't be pretty either.
South Korea is pretty nationalistic, which makes them a bit conflicted on the whole North Korea issue. Yes they're crazy and untrustworthy, but they're also Korean. Ideally they'd love for reunification to happen, and at the very least, I could see the government in South Korea falling in the aftermath of a nuclear strike on the north.
Quote from: Cain on April 03, 2013, 05:11:23 PM
And the knock on effects in South Korea (aside from nuclear fallout, of course) won't be pretty either.
South Korea is pretty nationalistic, which makes them a bit conflicted on the whole North Korea issue. Yes they're crazy and untrustworthy, but they're also Korean. Ideally they'd love for reunification to happen, and at the very least, I could see the government in South Korea falling in the aftermath of a nuclear strike on the north.
Siberia ain't gonna be happy, either.
So here's an interesting theory I've heard.
North Korea is agitating for a greater US military presence in the face of total collapse and reunification with the south. It kinda makes sense, as the only thing which would prevent a mass exodus from the North to the South in the event of unification would be, well, a bunch of really well armed people sitting on the DMZ.
I don't rate this as likely, just interesting to note.
Quote from: Cain on April 05, 2013, 12:51:11 AM
So here's an interesting theory I've heard.
North Korea is agitating for a greater US military presence in the face of total collapse and reunification with the south. It kinda makes sense, as the only thing which would prevent a mass exodus from the North to the South in the event of unification would be, well, a bunch of really well armed people sitting on the DMZ.
I don't rate this as likely, just interesting to note.
That is an interesting take, for sure.
The whole thing just made me learn about this place:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaesong_Industrial_Region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaesong_Industrial_Region)
(http://i.imgur.com/mp4utOh.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on April 05, 2013, 08:21:40 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/mp4utOh.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/Stella01904/62618_352736824826495_1408675010_n_zpsd2c8429e.jpg)
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/04/17605085-north-korea-foreign-embassy-staff-may-not-be-safe-if-theres-war?lite
April 10th, my ass. If they're gonna do something, it will probably be this weekend.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 06, 2013, 09:37:46 PM
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Meanwhile, guess who's making a bunch of spankin' new ICBMs?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/06/17634341-us-delays-missile-test-amid-tensions-with-north-korea?lite
If you said, "Jolly Old Uncle Sam", then treat yourself to a loyalty oath, Citizen!
It's just like the good old days, back again!
Oh good. :horrormirth:
North Korea blusters some more:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/09/17666065-north-korea-warns-foreigners-to-leave-south?lite
South Korean Man on the Street: YA RIGHT WHATEVAH, LOL@KIM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/09/17671487-positive-thinking-after-years-of-threats-keeps-south-koreans-going?lite
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Oh I know, it's just hard for me to fathom. Is it even
possible for a government like the DPRK to engage in something like an
actual direct attack on US forces or allies? You'd think the levels of lead poisoning required to cancel out their survival instincts like that would have killed them all dead before they got to that point.
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Oh I know, it's just hard for me to fathom. Is it even possible for a government like the DPRK to engage in something like an actual direct attack on US forces or allies? You'd think the levels of lead poisoning required to cancel out their survival instincts like that would have killed them all dead before they got to that point.
They have begun believing ther own propaganda.
Also, they're about to go down the crapper anyway. Why not drag South Korea and Japan and as many Americans down with them as they can?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Oh I know, it's just hard for me to fathom. Is it even possible for a government like the DPRK to engage in something like an actual direct attack on US forces or allies? You'd think the levels of lead poisoning required to cancel out their survival instincts like that would have killed them all dead before they got to that point.
They have begun believing ther own propaganda.
Also, they're about to go down the crapper anyway. Why not drag South Korea and Japan and as many Americans down with them as they can?
This would be the perfect opportunity to let them try to start a war, and then not show up to fight it. We won't do that, though.
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Oh I know, it's just hard for me to fathom. Is it even possible for a government like the DPRK to engage in something like an actual direct attack on US forces or allies? You'd think the levels of lead poisoning required to cancel out their survival instincts like that would have killed them all dead before they got to that point.
They have begun believing ther own propaganda.
Also, they're about to go down the crapper anyway. Why not drag South Korea and Japan and as many Americans down with them as they can?
This would be the perfect opportunity to let them try to start a war, and then not show up to fight it. We won't do that, though.
What if you had a war, and nobody showed up?
Well, no. See, there's Japan & South Korea to consider. Japan is one of our biggest trading partners and allies, and South Korea has been there EVERY TIME we've had trouble since WWII.
So, North Korea moves missles within striking range of Japan, maybe does something nasty like put a few sacks of waste radioactives in with the warheads? Has big clunky nukes that can't fit in a missile but CAN fit on a flatbed truck (Hello, DMZ!) or a shipping container (How ya doin', LA harbor?). Has 9000+ artillery pieces in range of 10 million South Koreans that consider us their best friends?
So tell me...What happens when you have a war, and ONE side shows up? I think there's a word for that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 08:01:17 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/10/17685392-very-high-chance-north-korea-will-fire-missile-us-and-south-korea-say?lite
Whoopsie.
Idk, still seems like the News Industry™ is trying too hard to make me feel threatened by Li'l Kim over there. Smells like another march to war to keep people preoccupied.
Although, I will say that if it were entirely bullshit, China probably wouldn't appreciate our beating the war drum for a country that borders them.
China has told its citizens to leave North Korea, and has cancelled all travel there. They're more than a little annoyed at North Korea right now.
It IS possible for OTHER countries to be dicks, you know. It isn't ALWAYS us.
Oh I know, it's just hard for me to fathom. Is it even possible for a government like the DPRK to engage in something like an actual direct attack on US forces or allies? You'd think the levels of lead poisoning required to cancel out their survival instincts like that would have killed them all dead before they got to that point.
They have begun believing ther own propaganda.
Also, they're about to go down the crapper anyway. Why not drag South Korea and Japan and as many Americans down with them as they can?
This would be the perfect opportunity to let them try to start a war, and then not show up to fight it. We won't do that, though.
What if you had a war, and nobody showed up?
Well, no. See, there's Japan & South Korea to consider. Japan is one of our biggest trading partners and allies, and South Korea has been there EVERY TIME we've had trouble since WWII.
So, North Korea moves missles within striking range of Japan, maybe does something nasty like put a few sacks of waste radioactives in with the warheads? Has big clunky nukes that can't fit in a missile but CAN fit on a flatbed truck (Hello, DMZ!) or a shipping container (How ya doin', LA harbor?). Has 9000+ artillery pieces in range of 10 million South Koreans that consider us their best friends?
So tell me...What happens when you have a war, and ONE side shows up? I think there's a word for that.
Yeah...
Also, a bomb on a shipping barge? Ridiculous. That thing could take until their apparently arbitrary deadline for foreigners and diplomats to leave the country, to arrive in LA.
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 08:04:11 PM
Also, a bomb on a shipping barge? Ridiculous. That thing could take until their apparently arbitrary deadline for foreigners and diplomats to leave the country, to arrive in LA.
As I've said before...As much shit as they're talking, whatever they're going to do is
already done.
Just for the sake of taking wildly uneducated stabs in the dark, what are the chances that China is pushing NK to make these threats to cover for some action they are planning?
Quote from: V3X on April 10, 2013, 08:10:25 PM
Just for the sake of taking wildly uneducated stabs in the dark, what are the chances that China is pushing NK to make these threats to cover for some action they are planning?
Cain would be more qualified to answer this, but I'm thinking China is really, really pissed right now. They know America's doctrine concerning nuclear retaliation, and they're
right next door. Russia isn't happy, either...Putin's been screaming his head off. But not about us.
From what I can see, this is the one time where the problem is damn near entirely one-sided, from a world opinion point of view.
Cain, could you chime in on this?
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
I think that's why China and Russia are annoyed with the DPRK, yeah.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
I think that's why China and Russia are annoyed with the DPRK, yeah.
is best korea as hermetic as it would appear? how many american operatives might be infiltrated and influencing their move towards war?
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
I think that's why China and Russia are annoyed with the DPRK, yeah.
is best korea as hermetic as it would appear? how many american operatives might be infiltrated and influencing their move towards war?
None. South Korean and American agents go in, but they never, ever come out.
You're displaying a bit of bias contrary to the facts here, Johnny. The USA
is a warmongering country, but we're not the
only warmongering country.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
I think that's why China and Russia are annoyed with the DPRK, yeah.
is best korea as hermetic as it would appear? how many american operatives might be infiltrated and influencing their move towards war?
None. South Korean and American agents go in, but they never, ever come out.
You're displaying a bit of bias contrary to the facts here, Johnny. The USA is a warmongering country, but we're not the only warmongering country.
i try to keep a balance between seeing how deep the rabbit hole goes and not going off the deep end conspiracy crazy... thats why it was more of an open question than an assertion.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 10, 2013, 09:38:57 PM
im sure nobody wants the nuclear fallout and or the subsequent American occupation and military bases, which could strenghten its influence in the region
I think that's why China and Russia are annoyed with the DPRK, yeah.
is best korea as hermetic as it would appear? how many american operatives might be infiltrated and influencing their move towards war?
None. South Korean and American agents go in, but they never, ever come out.
You're displaying a bit of bias contrary to the facts here, Johnny. The USA is a warmongering country, but we're not the only warmongering country.
i try to keep a balance between seeing how deep the rabbit hole goes and not going off the deep end conspiracy crazy... thats why it was more of an open question than an assertion.
If I thought it was POSSIBLE that we were behind this, I'd believe it.
But I don't think it is, and I think it really comes down to a crazy vice-marshall with his underwear on his head.
Interesting observation:
We have NO human intelligence assets in North Korea. South Korea sends them in, and they never, ever come back.
So how come the intel community went from "meh" to "attack imminent"?
Oh, yeah. Because we're going to hit them now, whether or not they were serious.
or a.k.a "A modern example of punishment of hubris"?
The entire idea of China supporting the DPRK is to reduce American influence on the Peninsula. They're not keen on reunification which allows America to have yet another military base on Chinese borders...and not the lameass Central Asian/Mongolian borders, but Laioning Province, which is the richest and most strategically placed province in North China. Dominate the province, and you not only control the Yellow Sea, but can range up the Yalu River. There's iron, petroleum, natural gas and significant industry in the area, too.
The DPRK also has a significant amount of natural resources. It has a crappy economy. China does not. So, cheap goods flow across the border.
Incidentally, the DPRK knows it is being used by China. They're not entirely stupid. Speculation is that nuclear brinksmanship is designed to show Beijing that they are not happy with the situation, but also that China cannot control North Korea and that America must deal with the North Koreans directly to get what they want. Thus, a classic "man-in-the-middle" bargaining position between two great powers, which would be ideologically palatable to the North Koreans and their weird, nationalistic Juche, and economically profitable as well, so long as equilibrium between the great powers is maintained.
And there is also the speculation that the Americans are not willing to deal with North Korea, because North Korea is a good justification for the Asian Pivot, and a military buildup to contain North Korea can just as easily be aimed at China at a later date.
North Korea is probably aware of this, but it is rather contrained in its options at the moment.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/04/north-korean-missile-test-delayed-by-windows-8.html
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/04/north-korean-missile-test-delayed-by-windows-8.html
:lulz:
THIS
IS FUCKING AMAZING!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/04/north-korean-missile-test-delayed-by-windows-8.html
:lulz:
:lulz: :lulz::lulz:
The conspiracy theorist in me imagines shadowy elites locked away in penthouses somewhere, spitting mad that they keep trying to scare everybody into line with North Korea, but the Internet just makes memes and funny fake news articles about it and everybody giggles instead of cowering. My reasonable half knows that isn't really what's going on, it's just fun to think about.
Not sure if this is the thread, but I remember Cain mentioning that this (or something like it) may happen.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un's uncle is removed from powerful role and two of his associates publicly executed for corruption
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517475/North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Uns-uncle-removed-powerful-role.html
Quote from: Telarus on December 03, 2013, 07:57:42 PM
Not sure if this is the thread, but I remember Cain mentioning that this (or something like it) may happen.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un's uncle is removed from powerful role and two of his associates publicly executed for corruption
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517475/North-Korea-Kim-Jong-Uns-uncle-removed-powerful-role.html
Yep. Lil Kim is now a puppet.
I think it was another thread, but yes. The military have successfully resisted the Korean Worker's Party attempts to rein them in. Kim's not entirely impotent, but he's far more figurehead than Father of the Nation.
South Korea still doesnt (http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/would-be-re-defector-still-trapped-in-south-korea/) quite (http://www.nknews.org/2013/12/intent-re-defector-regrets-coming-to-south-korea/) have the hang of freedom, though it may have the hang of FREEDOM:
QuoteIn order to save the system and prevent further defection, they will use me for political propaganda. And then they will give me harsh punishment, harsher than those given to ordinary citizens, and will place me where I will not be able to have contact with any outsiders.
I mean, I think wanting to defect back to North Korea is pretty crazy, but, you know, it's not my life.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/13/21889289-execution-of-kim-jong-uns-uncle-recalls-grandfathers-lethal-era?lite
:eek:
I mean, the holidays are rough on families, but having your Uncle executed is a bit much.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 13, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
I mean, the holidays are rough on families, but having your Uncle executed is a bit much.
It completely changes my mind about Lil Kim. He's not a puppet, he just owned the joint.
He's still a puppet.
The Korean military orchestrated this. Taek was the key liason to the Chinese government. China wants to strengthen the Korean Workers Party, to open the country to trade and foreign investment. That would significantly weaken the position of the military, who control most of the economy. Taek was the man behind the throne, the key power broker among the civilian leadership of the country.
Now the military don't have anyone to stop them pulling Jong-Un's strings. Game, set, match.
Quote from: Cain on December 13, 2013, 04:08:57 PM
He's still a puppet.
The Korean military orchestrated this. Taek was the key liason to the Chinese government. China wants to strengthen the Korean Workers Party, to open the country to trade and foreign investment. That would significantly weaken the position of the military, who control most of the economy. Taek was the man behind the throne, the key power broker among the civilian leadership of the country.
Now the military don't have anyone to stop them pulling Jong-Un's strings. Game, set, match.
See, I'm thinking that if the army was driving this, they'd stick to the original Kim's methods...Imprisonment for high officials, but not death. Reason? If the young bastard chokes on a chicken bone or something, they have a relative to install.
But if you're Kim, it makes more sense to kill the guy, as he is nothing but a threat.
I could be wrong, of course.
This article explains the conditions in North Korea quite nicely
http://newfocusintl.com/insider-perspective-removal-jang-song-taek/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=buffer8f42c&utm_medium=twitter
QuoteThe betrayal of Choe Ryong Hae, who had been appointed to lead the KPA General Political Bureau as the right hand man of Jang Song Taek in 2012, was fatal for Jang. Although Choe Ryong Hae's appointment as a leading military figure looked good, he had no military experience or military education, and was consequently ostracised among military circles. Moreover, with powers of military appointment and guidance in the hands of the OGD, Choe held no enforceable powers. Acknowledging that he was at the mercy of military forces, Choe turned his allegiance to the OGD.
It is in this context that while the removal of Jang Song Taek may suggest that Kim Jong Un's power has been cemented, the opposite is in fact the case. Kim Jong Un's opportunity to rely on his uncle Jang Song Taek and aunt Kim Kyong Hui has been curtailed by those loyal to his father Kim Jong Il and the OGD.
The OGD controls the personal bodyguards of Kim Jong Un, which makes them the most powerful institution in North Korea: the office of protecting Kim Jong Un goes hand in hand with the ability to control directly his contact with the outside world. However influential the power of Jang Song Taek and the Ministry of People's Security, this was an issue in which there was no competition as long as Kim Jong Un was head of state. When even his meetings with his aunt and uncle Kim Kyong Hui and Jang Song Taek have had to go through the OGD, Jang Song Taek's removal was not insurmountable.
There is always a discrepancy between a North Korean player's surface or public role and their de facto powers. This was the discrepancy perfected by Kim Jong Il in order to play off rivals and check their powers. One who publicly held authority over a vertical structure was not allowed de facto powers in that role; and one with such de facto powers was not allowed to hold a corresponding public role. This was Kim Jong Il's 'cross-shaped rule', which in Kim Jong Un's time has become a 'cross-shaped nightmare' for many.
Kim Jong Un has lost an option and a faction to play on, and is surrounded more firmly by those who emphasise military policies. We envision that North Korea's external and internal policies in the next few months will reflect this development.
Oh, okay.
I'm not sure if I want this story to be real or not. Probably not.
http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/asia-report/china/story/jangs-execution-bodes-ill-china-20131224
QuoteJang was stripped naked and thrown into a cage, along with his five closest aides. Then 120 hounds, starved for three days, were allowed to prey on them until they were completely eaten up. This is called "quan jue", or execution by dogs.
The report said the entire process lasted for an hour, with Mr Kim Jong Un, the supreme leader in North Korea, supervising it along with 300 senior officials.
Strait Times are pretty legit, as news goes. It probably happened.
Everyone else is reporting that it didn't happen. As Cain said, Straits Times are pretty legit. IMO the most legit newspaper in the world for getting the straight dope from. So I'm'a go with "everyone else is wrong/lying" on this one.