PDF drafts of the BIP2013 are now available on request.
The current draft is intended SOLELY for final review purposes prior to the official release.
What this means: Request a copy ONLY if you have the time and ability to read all text and review other aesthetic elements of the entire book.
What I am looking for are any MAJOR PROBLEMS (I am not concerned about minor things at this point, as any correction deemed necessary will result in me having to rescan the entire thing all over, which I don't want to have to do for some piddly-shit issues).
If you HAVE THE TIME and possess THE ABILITY to review the current draft, you may PM me with your e-mail address, and I will send you a copy within a day or two.
THIS DRAFT IS NOT YET READY FOR DISTRIBUTION, SO DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, BUSTER!
Bump, because only one taker so far.
I start up school again on the 4th, and I'd like to have made any major changes by then, if any are needed. And I don't particularly want to have to go elsewhere for feed back.
But, then again, maybe people lost interest in the project? It has taken a long time.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on August 30, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
Bump, because only one taker so far.
I start up school again on the 4th, and I'd like to have made any major changes by then, if any are needed. And I don't particularly want to have to go elsewhere for feed back.
But, then again, maybe people lost interest in the project? It has taken a long time.
Still interested, have no time.
Ditto.
I'll be going over it this weekend, probably tonight or tomorrow morning.
Just an update.
Good news: I'm starting to get some 'bug reports' in.
Bad news: Already a few bugs within the first few pages :sad:
Good news: We found them.
The more eyes we have looking, the faster this will go. If anyone doesn't have time to examine the whole damn thing, but has time to, perhaps, scan for a specific element or look over a page or two, I can piece out the work and 'assign' some pages. Just a thought, don't feel obligated.
Fine. I'll give it a skim/scan. You have my email?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 02, 2013, 02:33:46 AM
Fine. I'll give it a skim/scan. You have my email?
I actually got a pretty decent influx of readers PM me for a copy, so things are a little less dire. That said, you are obviously more than welcome to take a look at it. I don't think I have your e-mail address handy, actually, so if you want to drop me a PM, I'll have a copy to you before the end of the day.
I'll take a copy.
Okay, so, just a quick update.
I have been getting some good notes in from a few folk, and, so far, nothing that indicates any major re-working of pages.
That said, school started back up today, so I won't have time to look at anything in any real depth until the weekend. I'm thinking that I should have most of the feedback required to finalize this thing by then, and if so, a final copy should be complete by the end of the weekend.
I'm sorry I never went over my copy. I thought at the time that I was going to be home all weekend while ALL MY FRIENDS were at the boast, but then I went too.
I'm about a third of the way through. I noticed at least one typo, but it's pretty minor. So far, it looks pretty awesome.
I'm almost through it. Other than the wrong text on my piece, it looks awesome.
Quote from: Waffleman on September 05, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
I'm almost through it. Other than the wrong text on my piece, it looks awesome.
Yeah, not quite sure how that happened. Thankfully, that page should be a really easy fix.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 05, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
I'm sorry I never went over my copy. I thought at the time that I was going to be home all weekend while ALL MY FRIENDS were at the boast, but then I went too.
If all of your friends decided to drop out of school and become juggalos, would you do that too?
Wait... Don't answer that... :wink:
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 06, 2013, 11:45:13 PM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 05, 2013, 03:11:56 AM
I'm sorry I never went over my copy. I thought at the time that I was going to be home all weekend while ALL MY FRIENDS were at the boast, but then I went too.
If all of your friends decided to drop out of school and become juggalos, would you do that too?
Wait... Don't answer that... :wink:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Some feedback has trickled in, but it seems like it has mostly halted at this point.
There are a couple of people that I'd like to hear back from (*coughnigel, *ahemlmno) but I think that, at this point, it would be prudent to end this phase by this coming weekend. That way, I can take a week to implement any changes deemed necessary, and we can move on to organizing the release details.
Anyone who is still looking through it: don't see this as a means to rush through the whole thing haphazardly. I'll take whatever feedback you have on anything you've had the chance to look over by Sunday.
Alright, I haven't gotten anything else back to me since my last post, so I think I'm probably gonna call it here.
I would have liked to have gotten a bit more feedback, but I think it's time to get this moving forward.
That said, I won't likely get to the final re-scan until later on in the week, so if, in the meantime, anyone finds anything that needs addressing, there's technically a little bit of time left to let me know.
I'm sorry, I thought I had explained that the one weekend of my life when I actually thought I was going to have free time, I ended up going to the coast, which was a blast and a half. Otherwise I am trying to raise four children and keep my house from falling apart, sorry I couldn't be available for you.
Sorry, I shouldn't be snarky about it. When you posted on the 10th I was still stressing about my poster presentation, which was on the 12th, and I thought that you had needed feedback far earlier than that so I just pretty much ignored it as it was a demand on time I didn't have to give. If you still want feedback I'll look at it today, but for fuck's sale please cut the passive-aggressive crap, and just ask me if I have time. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but my life is not like that of a childless or married person. Even during break I work ALL THE TIME to keep kids fed, house cleaned, mortgage paid, etc. and I don't have "free time" per se, I just have "time where I have no high-priority matters need to be taken care of and I can put off lower-priority matters for a while".
It amazes me, sometimes, how married people and people without kids think about time. I think it must be somewhat like people from the NW think about water; it's just everywhere, we take it for granted. I am Tucson, and time is my water. What do you mean, you just have it lying around free? That makes no sense! What is that even like?
Every minute I spend on this board is a minute I probably should be doing something else, something that would make me and my children's lives better. FYI.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 05:44:09 PM
I'm sorry, I thought I had explained that the one weekend of my life when I actually thought I was going to have free time, I ended up going to the coast, which was a blast and a half. Otherwise I am trying to raise four children and keep my house from falling apart, sorry I couldn't be available for you.
It's no problem, I hope you didn't think that last post was directed specifically at you. There are a handful of copies out, and I was trying to address everyone who has one as a group.
I did specifically call you and LMNO by name a few posts back, but it was meant to be more silly than anything else.
The LAST thing I want to do is put undo stress on people, sorry if it came across like that. It's difficult trying to figure out a how to play an 'administrative' role on a Discordian project :oops: It's a little... counter-intuitive.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 15, 2013, 06:02:30 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 05:44:09 PM
I'm sorry, I thought I had explained that the one weekend of my life when I actually thought I was going to have free time, I ended up going to the coast, which was a blast and a half. Otherwise I am trying to raise four children and keep my house from falling apart, sorry I couldn't be available for you.
It's no problem, I hope you didn't think that last post was directed specifically at you. There are a handful of copies out, and I was trying to address everyone who has one as a group.
I did specifically call you and LMNO by name a few posts back, but it was meant to be more silly than anything else.
The LAST thing I want to do is put undo stress on people, sorry if it came across like that. It's difficult trying to figure out a how to play an 'administrative' role on a Discordian project :oops: It's a little... counter-intuitive.
Apology accepted, I'm sorry for reacting so strongly. I did take the last post that way, primarily because of the post before it. I do, actually, have time today; I was planning on doing housework and running the dog but if you really need feedback I can take a look at it this afternoon, provided nothing comes up.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 15, 2013, 06:02:30 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 05:44:09 PM
I'm sorry, I thought I had explained that the one weekend of my life when I actually thought I was going to have free time, I ended up going to the coast, which was a blast and a half. Otherwise I am trying to raise four children and keep my house from falling apart, sorry I couldn't be available for you.
It's no problem, I hope you didn't think that last post was directed specifically at you. There are a handful of copies out, and I was trying to address everyone who has one as a group.
I did specifically call you and LMNO by name a few posts back, but it was meant to be more silly than anything else.
The LAST thing I want to do is put undo stress on people, sorry if it came across like that. It's difficult trying to figure out a how to play an 'administrative' role on a Discordian project :oops: It's a little... counter-intuitive.
Apology accepted, I'm sorry for reacting so strongly. I did take the last post that way, primarily because of the post before it. I do, actually, have time today; I was planning on doing housework and running the dog but if you really need feedback I can take a look at it this afternoon, provided nothing comes up.
It's all cool. If you (or anyone else, for that matter) do manage to find a chance, start at the end and go backward. I have gotten little to nothing about the last third of the book.
Tangentially, I get the time thing. I may not be married or have kids, but I know
quite a few people in my day-to-day who don't take other people's time seriously, disregard other people's time entirely, or just, in a general way, have no sense of time. I am not one of those people. Honestly, commuting to school by bus as a full time student is a time destroyer for me. So, if anything, I can only imagine how having kids etc. would take it's toll. If anything, I mean to ACKNOWLEDGE this, because I know what it is like for people who don't respect my (lack of) time to NOT acknowledge that MY TIME IS VALUABLE.
It is frustrating dealing with people like that, and I did NOT MEAN to come across like that.
Plus, I'm a bit of a 'try-hard' or 'over-achiever,' and I tend to internalize or personalize the projects I work on. So, when 'dead-lines' (however self-imposed) approach and I don't feel the project has endured the proper level of scrutiny and attention, I tend to get nervous or unsettled in a psychological/emotional sort of way. When working on something alone, this is usually helpful, but I see how it could easily have an effect on the tone of my posts, and I should probably be a little more aware of it when working with others.
Thanks, Dimo. :) If my power doesn't get knocked out by this storm that's looming, I'll look at the last third, at least.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 07:33:31 PM
Thanks, Dimo. :) If my power doesn't get knocked out by this storm that's looming, I'll look at the last third, at least.
Coolio. I'd say 'may Eris be with you,' but that might be counter-productive at this point :fnord:
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 15, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 07:33:31 PM
Thanks, Dimo. :) If my power doesn't get knocked out by this storm that's looming, I'll look at the last third, at least.
Coolio. I'd say 'may Eris be with you,' but that might be counter-productive at this point :fnord:
:lulz: I was just being disappointed because it rained a little and then stopped, but then I heard the loudest thunderclap I've ever heard in my life so apparently it isn't over yet.
OK so I'm at page 38 and I have one very important question, without the answer to which I can't really continue: what is the planned publication size? Is this going to be magazine size, or paperback side?
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 09:53:11 PM
OK so I'm at page 38 and I have one very important question, without the answer to which I can't really continue: what is the planned publication size? Is this going to be magazine size, or paperback side?
Heya, that's an important question. I've gotten back to you via alternate means by the time I saw this, but in case anyone else was wondering, I was shooting for a graphic novel/comic book size. Something about being able to sleeve this up in a comic bag seemed appealing to me, plus anything smaller would likely be too small.
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
That's true and, really, this is more for the diy crowd, I feel.
Over all, I don't think size is
all that important in regards to the
digital copy (most PDF readers allow you to zoom) but I think I'm going to experiment with a few different sizes before I host it anywhere that someone could order a physical copy. Cost is important for non-DIYers, but Lulu seems fairly inexpensive overall. What's important is that it scales well with whatever size we ultimately decide (likely magazine size at this point), but I don't mind spending a little cash to see what other sizes will look like in person.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:34:32 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
That's true and, really, this is more for the diy crowd, I feel.
Over all, I don't think size is all that important in regards to the digital copy (most PDF readers allow you to zoom) but I think I'm going to experiment with a few different sizes before I host it anywhere that someone could order a physical copy. Cost is important for non-DIYers, but Lulu seems fairly inexpensive overall. What's important is that it scales well with whatever size we ultimately decide (likely magazine size at this point), but I don't mind spending a little cash to see what other sizes will look like in person.
Have you considered Amazon? I think it may reach a wider audience there.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:38:17 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:34:32 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
That's true and, really, this is more for the diy crowd, I feel.
Over all, I don't think size is all that important in regards to the digital copy (most PDF readers allow you to zoom) but I think I'm going to experiment with a few different sizes before I host it anywhere that someone could order a physical copy. Cost is important for non-DIYers, but Lulu seems fairly inexpensive overall. What's important is that it scales well with whatever size we ultimately decide (likely magazine size at this point), but I don't mind spending a little cash to see what other sizes will look like in person.
Have you considered Amazon? I think it may reach a wider audience there.
As of right now, I haven't really checked into it and I'm not settled one way or another. I was only thinking Lulu because it had been recommended to me. I'm going to look more into that stuff when I have the final copy ready, but I am totally open to checking out anything, if anyone else has suggestions/prefferences.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:45:30 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:38:17 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:34:32 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
That's true and, really, this is more for the diy crowd, I feel.
Over all, I don't think size is all that important in regards to the digital copy (most PDF readers allow you to zoom) but I think I'm going to experiment with a few different sizes before I host it anywhere that someone could order a physical copy. Cost is important for non-DIYers, but Lulu seems fairly inexpensive overall. What's important is that it scales well with whatever size we ultimately decide (likely magazine size at this point), but I don't mind spending a little cash to see what other sizes will look like in person.
Have you considered Amazon? I think it may reach a wider audience there.
As of right now, I haven't really checked into it and I'm not settled one way or another. I was only thinking Lulu because it had been recommended to me. I'm going to look more into that stuff when I have the final copy ready, but I am totally open to checking out anything, if anyone else has suggestions/prefferences.
I don't know much about it but I know Suu has a book up on Amazon, maybe she can tell you more about it.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 02:01:23 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:45:30 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:38:17 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:34:32 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 16, 2013, 01:21:01 AM
Although, after reviewing some of the feedback, I think we're looking at magazine size. Some of the font-size issues may be unfixable. I'm going to try printing up some of the 'trouble pages' at graphic novel size, just in case. But in the end, I think larger will be better. Then again, we could potentially release it in different sizes... I dunno, I guess we'll see.
The drawback of releasing it at magazine size is that copies will be more expensive to order... however, the advantage is that it will make it really cheap for the do-it-yourselfer to print and bind, especially if there's enough room in the margin for a three-ring or spiral binding.
That's true and, really, this is more for the diy crowd, I feel.
Over all, I don't think size is all that important in regards to the digital copy (most PDF readers allow you to zoom) but I think I'm going to experiment with a few different sizes before I host it anywhere that someone could order a physical copy. Cost is important for non-DIYers, but Lulu seems fairly inexpensive overall. What's important is that it scales well with whatever size we ultimately decide (likely magazine size at this point), but I don't mind spending a little cash to see what other sizes will look like in person.
Have you considered Amazon? I think it may reach a wider audience there.
As of right now, I haven't really checked into it and I'm not settled one way or another. I was only thinking Lulu because it had been recommended to me. I'm going to look more into that stuff when I have the final copy ready, but I am totally open to checking out anything, if anyone else has suggestions/prefferences.
I don't know much about it but I know Suu has a book up on Amazon, maybe she can tell you more about it.
Sweet beans. I'll ask her next time I see her. I run into her enough at school, so...
I'm going to help him format it. I seriously see him everyday now, and I have all the programs and templates on my lappy, so this works well. We are going to take over the student coffeehouse to get it done.
:mittens:
Excellent!
Yeah, I should be getting all the corrections made over the weekend, so the next time Suu's and my schedule line up, we can get this underway.
:)
Still alive, still not quite finished, but still working on it (albeit, slowly). School is in full swing, so...
But, yeah, just wanted to check in, in case anyone was wondering what was up.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 03:12:19 AM
Still alive, still not quite finished, but still working on it (albeit, slowly). School is in full swing, so...
But, yeah, just wanted to check in, in case anyone was wondering what was up.
YO, DIMO! :D
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 03:20:38 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 03:12:19 AM
Still alive, still not quite finished, but still working on it (albeit, slowly). School is in full swing, so...
But, yeah, just wanted to check in, in case anyone was wondering what was up.
YO, DIMO! :D
WHAZZAP!
Complete side-note, all the freshmen in my PHL classes think I'm an 'asshole' simply because I disagree with their inane bullshit. I haven't even gotten mean yet.
"Yo, man, you should keep an open mind."
"You know what a truly open mind is? A fucking vacuum. You know what happens with a vacuum? It gets filled up with whatever old shit is lying around. Now sit down, junior."
Someone told me that I couldn't use an analogy to make an argument... In a 300 lvl PHL course...
A kid tried to argue against a point I made by saying that he 'didn't like my tone.' I swear, he was three seconds away from throwing punches when I informed him that, despite my 3.95 gpa, I am not above trading blows if all that thinking was making him cranky.
I swear...
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 03:37:00 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 03:20:38 AM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 03:12:19 AM
Still alive, still not quite finished, but still working on it (albeit, slowly). School is in full swing, so...
But, yeah, just wanted to check in, in case anyone was wondering what was up.
YO, DIMO! :D
WHAZZAP!
Complete side-note, all the freshmen in my PHL classes think I'm an 'asshole' simply because I disagree with their inane bullshit. I haven't even gotten mean yet.
"Yo, man, you should keep an open mind."
"You know what a truly open mind is? A fucking vacuum. You know what happens with a vacuum? It gets filled up with whatever old shit is lying around. Now sit down, junior."
Someone told me that I couldn't use an analogy to make an argument... In a 300 lvl PHL course...
A kid tried to argue against a point I made by saying that he 'didn't like my tone.' I swear, he was three seconds away from throwing punches when I informed him that, despite my 3.95 gpa, I am not above trading blows if all that thinking was making him cranky.
I swear...
:lulz: I wish you were in my classes.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 03:46:33 AM
:lulz: I wish you were in my classes.
Dude... Peoples' heads would explode.
But, seriously, I'm getting sick of this "open mind" shit people keep giving me.
Like, if you offered me a baloney sandwich, and I said that I didn't like baloney, you wouldn't respond with "OMGWTF have an open mind!!1!"
But with some meaningless metaphysical shit, unfalsifiable claim, or general mistake in basic logic (and in a lot of cases, music and movies as well) people get all bent the fuck out, like suddenly I'm not entitled to parse it out for my own self.
"You gotta learn to keep an open mind, man" reads, to me, more like "I have the right for you to see things my way."
My least favorite is when people say "well you never really know for sure..." about some whacknoodle bullshit that has no basis in reality. OK, maybe I don't know FOR SURE but when there's a significant amount of evidence and ALL of it points to "your claim is utter bullshit", where do you place your bet?
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 04:35:35 AM
My least favorite is when people say "well you never really know for sure..." about some whacknoodle bullshit that has no basis in reality. OK, maybe I don't know FOR SURE but when there's a significant amount of evidence and ALL of it points to "your claim is utter bullshit", where do you place your bet?
Yadude. Folk like that didn't understand their Karl Popper and Tom Khun (nit sure if you guys would have to read them or not?), or rather they're deliberately over-stretching the ideas in a piss-poor attempts to cover up bad reasoning.
What you need is the HAMMER OF RATIONALITY™.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 27, 2013, 02:19:00 PM
What you need is the HAMMER OF RATIONALITY™.
(http://i.imgur.com/Xtl3p5E.jpg)
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 04:41:36 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 04:35:35 AM
My least favorite is when people say "well you never really know for sure..." about some whacknoodle bullshit that has no basis in reality. OK, maybe I don't know FOR SURE but when there's a significant amount of evidence and ALL of it points to "your claim is utter bullshit", where do you place your bet?
Yadude. Folk like that didn't understand their Karl Popper and Tom Khun (nit sure if you guys would have to read them or not?), or rather they're deliberately over-stretching the ideas in a piss-poor attempts to cover up bad reasoning.
I'm a science major, I ain't gotta read shit. :lol:
Actually that is patently untrue, but apparently I don't have to read much by way of philosophy. I did take a Philosophy of Science class, but I don't recall who authored the book, a very expensive very slim volume I later made the mistake of lending to someone who, naturally, never returned it.
These are my books for this term. One could argue that "understanding architecture" is philosophy.
(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1379731_10151724984584069_270324167_n.jpg)
A completely unrelated note: Not only have I taken Philosophy of Science, but also every science intro class includes a day or two on scientific method. All of them, hard or soft sciences, every single one. Six intro classes so far, and I thought I was done... and then realized that I still have to take physics 201.
There is no getting out alive.
But, to move towards a personal point, the type of people that require you entertain
any possibility simply because of the probabilistic nature of induction can be accounted for by their misunderstanding of certain concepts put forth by Thomas Kuhn and, a touch earlier, the ideas of David Hume.
Kuhn, in the most rudimentary version of his position, states that subjectivity cannot be entirely removed from the process of theory choice when confronted with two opposing theories that are (at least, superficially) equally valid. (Origianlly in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 1962 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions), further explained in his essay 'Objectivity, Value Judgments, and Theory Choice,' a short time later)
This argument relates to other earlier arguments regarding, what is termed now, the 'problem of induction.' Namely, certain arguments found in David Hume's 'Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding,' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Enquiry_concerning_Human_Understanding) (Again, my reductionist version) where he illustrates that knowledge based on
a posteriori, inductive proofs cannot provide
certainty, only a degree of
probability.
Now, in both the realms of science and philosophy (I try not to make such a clear division between the two) these ideas are read and understood in a particular way which, despite the lack of certainty and objectivity, allow meaningful scientific discovery and inquiry to still be possible.
The breakdown that allows for these 'believers of all possibilities' to perceive themselves to be on solid foundations when making such trivial assertions comes into play when these ideas, initially discussed within the philosophical/scientific circles and communities, where they are understood in a
very distinct way, become translated in a socio-cultural sense, where these ideas are understood in
a very different way.This 'different way' operates under, what I call, the fallacy or doctrine of 'Apparent Dualism,' which requires the indoctrinated to assume that all things have a corollary that is, in essence, directly in opposition to that thing. They see 'subjective' to be directly opposed to 'objective,' therefore, the intrinsic subjectivity found in theory choice
negates the possibility of objectivity (when, really, they tend to support one another). Therefore, to them, all reality has been rendered 'subjective.' Similarly, the indoctrinated see 'certainty' to have a polar opposite of 'uncertainty.' Therefore, to them, the probabilistic nature of induction is rendered as wholly 'uncertain.' The combination of the above can 'allow' a person to say things like "You can't say
for sure X. therefore I'm justified in my belief of
not X." Further, the integration of subjective value judgment into the previously 'objective' sciences also 'allows' these people to determine that all things are merely subjective, and choosing a correct theory is simply a matter of personal preference.
While we can easily suggest that the source of this miscommunication is, possibly, a misunderstanding of things like probabilities, or the meanings of the words 'objective' and 'subjective,' I would suggest that these misunderstandings are the product of the Doctrine of Apparent Dualism.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 27, 2013, 02:19:00 PM
What you need is the HAMMER OF RATIONALITY™.
Yeah, while it may feel good to drop the hammer (though, I prefer to think of rationality more as a tomahawk), from a pragmatic viewpoint, it doesn't accomplish much.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 04:15:17 PM
A completely unrelated note: Not only have I taken Philosophy of Science, but also every science intro class includes a day or two on scientific method. All of them, hard or soft sciences, every single one. Six intro classes so far, and I thought I was done... and then realized that I still have to take physics 201.
There is no getting out alive.
You will live the Scientific Method, you will sweat it, you will breathe it, and you will /like it/.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 27, 2013, 04:41:36 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 04:35:35 AM
My least favorite is when people say "well you never really know for sure..." about some whacknoodle bullshit that has no basis in reality. OK, maybe I don't know FOR SURE but when there's a significant amount of evidence and ALL of it points to "your claim is utter bullshit", where do you place your bet?
Yadude. Folk like that didn't understand their Karl Popper and Tom Khun (nit sure if you guys would have to read them or not?), or rather they're deliberately over-stretching the ideas in a piss-poor attempts to cover up bad reasoning.
Most people have no idea who those people are, much less what they were discussing. Sad but true.
Quote from: Kai on September 27, 2013, 08:41:57 PM
Most people have no idea who those people are, much less what they were discussing. Sad but true.
I was actually a little surprised to hear that they aren't as widely taught outside of philosophy.
Although, while you're here, Kai, I would like to hear your assessment of my prior post, seeing that you have a different relationship to science than I do and could perhaps correct or elaborate on certain things I may have completely overlooked.
Dimo, P.O.S. (Philosopher of Science/Piece of Shit)
QuoteYeah, while it may feel good to drop the hammer (though, I prefer to think of rationality more as a tomahawk), from a pragmatic viewpoint, it doesn't accomplish much.
Bitches don't know about your rationality.
Quote from: Kai on September 27, 2013, 08:41:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 27, 2013, 04:15:17 PM
A completely unrelated note: Not only have I taken Philosophy of Science, but also every science intro class includes a day or two on scientific method. All of them, hard or soft sciences, every single one. Six intro classes so far, and I thought I was done... and then realized that I still have to take physics 201.
There is no getting out alive.
You will live the Scientific Method, you will sweat it, you will breathe it, and you will /like it/.
:lulz:
I stopped counting the library research trainings. I couldn't begin to tell you how many of those I've been to. I just found out I have another one next week.
Two things I will come out of this with for sure, I will know the Scientific Method and I damn well will
know how to look shit up. :lol:
Ergh... Eris is against me. Had a whole bunch of time set aside to do some work today, but the fucking printer is out of ink (It's actually not, it's just trying to extort me into buying new ink cartridges, even though they aren't completely empty)... I'm going to try to see if anyone I know has a functioning printer, if not, we're just going to have to add another week to the damn thing. Sonova...
Ugh... I guess the good news here is that, after reviewing all the proposed corrections, it seems like it should go quickly once I get my hands on a functioning printer... pfah...
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 28, 2013, 02:56:12 PM
Ugh... I guess the good news here is that, after reviewing all the proposed corrections, it seems like it should go quickly once I get my hands on a functioning printer... pfah...
Do you have a printing stipend on the school computers? I have found that it's cheaper than using my own printer.
We've got a serious fucking printer here, if you need?
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 28, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: Cuddlefish on September 28, 2013, 02:56:12 PM
Ugh... I guess the good news here is that, after reviewing all the proposed corrections, it seems like it should go quickly once I get my hands on a functioning printer... pfah...
Do you have a printing stipend on the school computers? I have found that it's cheaper than using my own printer.
Quote from: Sad Sack on September 28, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
We've got a serious fucking printer here, if you need?
I think it would be too much of a commute either way. I don't really want to buy more ink (it's not my printer), but I might see if I can get down the road and get some anyway. I'm just mainly miffed that I woke up bright and early on my day off to get it done, only to find yadayada...
There are some really minor things I can do in the meantime and I think I'll have most of tomorrow if I shift around some of my plans.
Just an FYI, in case anyone was wondering. My bro's fiance is bringing me a printer. I'm going to try to get all the corrections in tonight. Not sure if I'll have time to rescan the whole thing tonight, but I should find some time before the end of the weekend.
Yay!
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 28, 2013, 10:49:33 PM
Yay!
Of course, they got here with the printer, which they had used no less than a few hours earlier without issue, and it completely fails to function for me...
I have some things 'fixed' but nothing final. We'll try again today.
Ok, everything I tried to do last weekend is done, which is most of the fixes. I'll rescan the whole stack and then it's up to Suu and I to format for Amazon. Unfortunately, there wasn't much I could do about a few things, but there may be something Suu and I can do post-scan to tighten things up. Hopefully we can get to it around Friday.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Sweeet!
Suu and I have moved on to formatting for amazon. Should have some test runs in hand within a few weeks. As soon as we know it's all good, physical copies will be available on amazon, and digital copies will be posted online (probably on my Scribd.com account, but someone let me know if I should email someone the final pdf's to link to on the homepage here. Not sure if that's a thing that people want, but, yeah)
Quote from: Cuddlefish on October 20, 2013, 02:29:20 PM
Suu and I have moved on to formatting for amazon. Should have some test runs in hand within a few weeks. As soon as we know it's all good, physical copies will be available on amazon, and digital copies will be posted online (probably on my Scribd.com account, but someone let me know if I should email someone the final pdf's to link to on the homepage here. Not sure if that's a thing that people want, but, yeah)
Awesome awesome awesome!