RWHN,
What you are experiencing these days strikes a familiar chord. I was in the same boat, from 2003-2005, with 99% of the members and 100% of the admin team, under the last regime. Everything was antagonistic. I shat on them, and they were more than happy to shit on any serious thread I attempted, for the obvious reason. The person pushing this was Hugh, of course, and he successfully managed to reignite the dispute any time it seemed to be calming down...To the point of reading peoples' PMs and forwarding edited versions to 3rd parties.
This led to Hoops believing that my room mate at the time, GITM, was in fact me. GITM and Hoops were in a stupid conflict of some kind, caused mostly by GITM's bad attitude. Hoops then responded to me with a pic depicted me as a cross between Alfred E Nueman and Adolf Hitler. It was screamingly funny, but at the time I couldn't process the humor at all. This led to a huge spattering of butthurt and screeching that resulted in the whole "Wrong Side of the Tracks Crew", the civil war, etc.
It wasn't until years later that Hoops and I figured out what happened.
Anyway, my point is this: Most of the problem was me. I had found a Cause, and everything had to be tied to that Cause (anti-fascism, in this case, which is what made Hoops' picture so devastatingly effective, given my state of mind). Everything became personal. Everything.
Now, a lot of the members at that time were, in my opinion, genuine shitnecks, and I hate them to this day (Hoshiko, Malaul, DJ Rubber Ducky, Agent Compassion, a few others)...But the part I COULD control was ME.
PAUSE: At this point, you should decide whether to make a snarky comment or seriously consider a solution to the current mess. If you want to snark, just skip the rest and post your response. If you're interested in getting things back on track, then read on.
Okay. You right now have a steamer trunk full of butthurt. Some of it is caused by some of us, and some of it is all you. If you wish to be part of this or any other community as anything other than the next incarnation of IANAR, you're going to have to do something with that butthurt.
Some suggestions:
1. Stop responding to inbound butthurt. People fling shit your way, just step around it and get on with what you were doing. That's the only advice I can give with respect to the inbound butthurt, because you really don't have any form of control over that.
2. Stop treating everyone around you as if they are stupid and/or incompetent. We're not. Also, explaining to people who are distraught about something that they deserved it, etc, DOESN'T HELP ANYTHING. Even if they did deserve it or set themselves up for failure, or whatever.
3. *important* Stop trying to tell us how important you are, how smart, how happy, etc. Seriously. Take a step back and look at that sort of thing, and tell me what you see. It's That Guy. You've met him at parties. He was the guy that had to tell you all about HIM. For the whole party.
4. People are not "assets". People are not "pixels on a screen".
5. We can only make decisions about you based on how you post. Do your posts reflect the real, complete "you"? I doubt it. But what else do we have to go on? You say that people shouldn't "judge" at all, but you and I both know that's ridiculous. People don't "decide" to form an opinion, they just DO it. So what you post is, effectively, the only thing people can form that opinion on. Action/reaction. How else could you possibly expect the universe to behave?
6. If you can't accept the above items as accurate, and you believe that we are all bad people martyring you, then why are you here? You contributed in the past, but it is now effectively impossible for you to communicate anything other than the usual mishegoss of shitflinging that has been going on in all directions for several years now. If you want to communicate anything else, you have to decide that you're talking TO people, not lecturing AT assets or talking very slowly to idiots. If you can't do that sort of thing for one reason for another, then the only thing PD is going to be for you is provide an environment in which you can become more bitter and antagonistic.
So, you know, it's sort of on you. Take it for what it's worth.
Before I make my response do I have acknowledgement from you that you are a significant part of the "inbound butthurt" ?
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 05:59:45 PM
Before I make my response do I have acknowledgement from you that you are a significant part of the "inbound butthurt" ?
Of course. This wasn't "IT'S ALL YOU, RWHN", but the 1st piece of advice is the only control you have over inbound butthurt, which is why I didn't talk about it much.
That could imply:
"People are going to continue to be shitty towards you, so just shut up and take it."
Or it could imply that if you stop reacting to it, and particularly if you stop baiting it, there will no longer be any incentive for anyone to do it and it will gradually stop.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
That could imply:
"People are going to continue to be shitty towards you, so just shut up and take it."
Or it could imply why not take the high ground. Which isnt a sign of weakness or giving in. Theres really nothing to win in a shitflinging match. Even if you dont get hit its still on your hand.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:07:42 PM
That could imply:
"People are going to continue to be shitty towards you, so just shut up and take it."
:|
I don't feel that I have anything else to contribute, here.
Carry on.
The past would indicate otherwise. I mean, there are certain people who started being shitty simply because of my opinion on marijuana legalization. That has always been at the heart of it. If I thought those people could tolerate a difference of opinion on that subject, perhaps I would be more likely to react to those people in a different manner. The track record hasn't been great, however.
A declaration of tolerance will be a good first step.
I think there might be something to points #2 and #3 that would also go a long way toward alleviating the issue of inbound butthurt.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 06, 2013, 07:20:30 PM
I think there might be something to points #2 and #3 that would also go a long way toward alleviating the issue of inbound butthurt.
We're apparently stalled on #1.
Sooooo what do you do RWHN? do you tell stories? write rants? make things? pranks?
I come here for cool stuff, and to hang out with people that think.
I mean this is a discordian board so there's going to be trolling, but you don't really seem like you're trolling for fun. They :fap: and go.
What I'm saying is: maybe this isn't the right place for you? The internet is a big place. I don't know all this nonsense crap history you guys have AND I DON"T CARE.
TL:DR version
If you're not enjoying your time here why are you here?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. This shit started the same time the drug threads proliferated. That isn't a coincidence. #1 is going to be difficult if there is only expectations [size=78%]on one side to move. [/size]
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. This shit started the same time the drug threads proliferated. That isn't a coincidence. #1 is going to be difficult if there is only expectations [size=78%]on one side to move. [/size]
I tried.
Leaving thread now.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. This shit started the same time the drug threads proliferated. That isn't a coincidence. #1 is going to be difficult if there is only expectations [size=78%]on one side to move. [/size]
Maybe with some people. Maybe you could just ignore them.i suspect that those people arent bothered by your position so much as rationale. I wont speak for them. Personally i dont care that we disagree on legalization. We just have different sensibilities on the matter.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:33:05 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. This shit started the same time the drug threads proliferated. That isn't a coincidence. #1 is going to be difficult if there is only expectations [size=78%]on one side to move. [/size]
I tried.
Leaving thread now.
A one-way road is not trying, I'm sorry.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:33:05 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:18:40 PM
That has always been at the heart of it.
No, it hasn't. And this is the disconnect.
Sorry, I strongly disagree. This shit started the same time the drug threads proliferated. That isn't a coincidence. #1 is going to be difficult if there is only expectations [size=78%]on one side to move. [/size]
I tried.
Leaving thread now.
A one-way road is not trying, I'm sorry.
You know, I should have known you'd use this thread as a weapon.
Back to the regular grind.
Dear RWHN,
Or you could try not being an uppity little twat like you have been lately.
Just an observance, really, since I haven't even been around much.
Seems all you've done recently is turn everything into something about you.
Stop doing that.
No.
I'm all for a two-way truce.
But I'm not on board with "we get to continue to be asshats and you just have to take it."
I will move if others move.
Compromise.
Not selling myself out.
Uh... I'm not sure that anyone said that, really.
How did you come to this conclusion?
The whole notion of a "truce" is bullshit. A "truce" implies enemies not fighting. I was trying to get rid of the "enemies" part, making a truce UNNECESSARY, but that is apparently not fucking satisfactory.
I don't have any clue what I was thinking when I decided that this was a good idea. I'm a fucking moron.
In the meantime, settlements in the occupied territories will continue.
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:57:54 PM
The whole notion of a "truce" is bullshit. A "truce" implies enemies not fighting. I was trying to get rid of the "enemies" part, making a truce UNNECESSARY, but that is apparently not fucking satisfactory.
I don't have any clue what I was thinking when I decided that this was a good idea. I'm a fucking moron.
It was good advice for humans in general, and will probably be useful for someone at some point in the future.
I think that a big part of the premise of the OP is that we each only have control over our own behavior, so if we want things to change, the main thing to consider is whether we can do anything different that might lead to that change.
If we make our own changes/growth contingent on other people changing, then it will never happen. We are stalled.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 06, 2013, 07:57:54 PM
The whole notion of a "truce" is bullshit. A "truce" implies enemies not fighting. I was trying to get rid of the "enemies" part, making a truce UNNECESSARY, but that is apparently not fucking satisfactory.
I don't have any clue what I was thinking when I decided that this was a good idea. I'm a fucking moron.
I thought it was a pretty noble effort. As in, you are noble for making the effort. Much more than I would have put into the situation at this point, and I consider myself a very forgiving person.
Really, you could have covered the OP in a whole lot of simpering apology and reconciliation while presenting the same basic message, and he would have just danced all over it anyway. What you actually wrote was much more honest.
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
YEAH, IT WAS A DAMN SHAME WE BANNED YOU FOR DISAGREEING WITH US AND ALL. :lulz:
OH, WAIT. DID YOU MEAN THAT YOU WERE OSTRACIZED? THAT PROBABLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU BEING A MISOGYNIST PRICK AND MAYBE CALLING EVERYONE THAT DISAGREED WITH YOU "IDIOT", ETC.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS EVERYONE ELSE'S LACK OF TOLERANCE.
You laughable stuffed shirt.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
ITT: RWHN doesn't know what "tolerance" means.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 06, 2013, 08:51:05 PM
ITT: RWHN doesn't know what "tolerance" means.
Sure. It means "don't disagree with RWHN" and "Put up with RWHN's bad behavior if you do."
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Because:
A). It's not ever going to work
and
B). Practice what you preach
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
Of what? Thats why i said specifically.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Because:
A). It's not ever going to work
and
B). Practice what you preach
Nobody's telling you to shut up because you disagree with them. They're telling you to stop being an asshole about how much you disagree with them all the time. You know, "THAT'S COOL AND I'MMA LET YOU FINISH, BUT YOU'RE WRONG AND HERE'S WHY..." in every. single. thread. And then, you either fail to bring any actual evidence, bring clearly skewed and/or cherrypicked evidence, or refuse out of hand to consider conflicting evidence on account of "it's wrong cause I said so." You base your positions on meaningless things like "I heard of a guy who" and "Well in Maine that's how we roll," and when people call you on this kind of awful behavior, you act like they're calling out your beliefs* for being wrong when really, they're just questioning the road you took to get to them.
*Which is all they really are.
I don't like tolerance anyway. I much prefer the "don't be an asshole" rule.
Quote from: V3X on September 06, 2013, 09:00:37 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Because:
A). It's not ever going to work
and
B). Practice what you preach
Nobody's telling you to shut up because you disagree with them.
He knows. But that isn't the point, is it?
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Babboonery, ITT.
Gotta show that bright red ass. Even if it means abandoning every shred of intellectual honesty you may have left, right?
The other thing is we want to see more of you not just your job. The problem here is a feedback loop. You know stop being a fish and all that. To take the uniform analogy and the recent joke at your expense the argument is like im wearing a suit. Its ill fitting. But im wearing a suit. Yeah dude and its ill fitting. SUIT. ILL FITTING.
Everyone shutting up about it wouldnt be a bad thing. We know about your suit. You know we think its ill fitting. Youre going to keep wearing the suit. And were going to keep thinking its ill fitting. Why not talk about something else? Why do you have to be indignant about your suit being called ill fitting? If someone else brings up the suit in another thread where youre discussing something different dont be a fish. Just say non sequitur. Stop thread jacking. Its that easy.
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
The other thing is we want to see more of you not just your job. The problem here is a feedback loop. You know stop being a fish and all that. To take the uniform analogy and the recent joke at your expense the argument is like im wearing a suit. Its ill fitting. But im wearing a suit. Yeah dude and its ill fitting. SUIT. ILL FITTING.
Everyone shutting up about it wouldnt be a bad thing. We know about your suit. You know we think its ill fitting. Youre going to keep wearing the suit. And were going to keep thinking its ill fitting. Why not talk about something else? Why do you have to be indignant about your suit being called ill fitting? If someone else brings up the suit in another thread where youre discussing something different dont be a fish. Just say non sequitur. Stop thread jacking. Its that easy.
Or stop wearing that suit.
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:58:09 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
Of what? Thats why i said specifically.
Of someone who has different opinions.
Reality grids, etc
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:58:09 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
Of what? Thats why i said specifically.
Of someone who has different opinions.
Reality grids, etc
RWHN will not get the point, because RWHN is determined to not get the point.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:58:09 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:43:44 PM
Quote from: Twigel on September 06, 2013, 08:20:49 PM
What specifically are you looking for rwhn? By that i mean what are you saying you wont back down and what you want in return?
It's simple.
Tolerance.
Of what? Thats why i said specifically.
Of someone who has different opinions.
Reality grids, etc
Now do you mean tolerance of the person or tolerance of the opinion too? What about the basis of the opinion?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 06, 2013, 07:59:01 PM
In the meantime, settlements in the occupied territories will continue.
:lulz:
Another analogy.
What roger has done here is to hold an intervention for you. He admits that we have done drugs with you and that you should stop doing drugs. Hell do the same. Your response is to say only if everyone else refuses to sell me drugs. What hes saying is that you should just say no to drugs if someone tries to deal to you.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Because:
A). It's not ever going to work
and
B). Practice what you preach
What advice would you give to people who said shit like "Hey, y'all, why dont you stop acting like RWHN is a saturday morning cartoon villain because his opinion differs?" and then got shit on with everybody else, you pathetic, spiraling little puke?
Ah, nevermind, just keep on keeping on.
I certainly don't want you to stop, I'd love nothing more for you to alienate every single person on this board. Then, maybe, when you finally do pull your massively big head out of your tight ass, it'll be nice and too fucking late.
So, please, PLEASE, don't shut up.
Quote from: Kai on September 06, 2013, 09:07:30 PM
I don't like tolerance anyway. I much prefer the "don't be an asshole" rule.
THIS! Tolerance is how you talk to a child.
I don't give any fucks about RWHN's stance on drugs. If he wasn't the "My Discordia is shitting all over everyone because I lump them in with whoever the actual aggressors are" guy, I would quite happily go back to interacting with him like he wasn't that guy.
But if that "I've accomplished more than you could ever dream", "Evil has no time for kitties, it diminishes our badness" guy is who RWHN is (as far as can be determined here), he can fuck off forever.
Quote from: Delcon on September 07, 2013, 02:59:04 AM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 07:53:56 PM
No.
I'm all for a two-way truce.
But I'm not on board with "we get to continue to be asshats and you just have to take it."
I will move if others move.
Compromise.
Not selling myself out.
Hate to say it, but he's got a point here. Odd to see anti-fascist in the OP, considering it could have been written by Mussolini himself.
Just "clean up" and move my post wherever you want to, Benito. Do it. Prove me right over and over again. Go ahead and run wild, without any repercussions or a second thought from any of the other "admins." Whoever owns this site must be really scared of you. Either that or they don't want to put up with your drama. Stripping you of your Principia Dictatorship would be like taking candy from a baby. Crack from Lamar Odom. Cock from Andy Cohen. Cupcakes from Jessica Simpson...... Total meltdown ensues.
THE ULTIMATE BUTTHURT
Or the rest of us just think it's funny when guys like you go on a crusade.
As for being scared of Roger, well, the parched and burnt landscape around Tucson is proof of what happens when he's full of vindaloo. Any reasonable man would be a least a little, shall we say, concerned by that and I am nothing if not a reasonable man.
:lulz:
You can't run a Rebel Leader troll, Delcon, unless you have the good will of the populace. A Rebel Leader without any rebels is just some asshat fighting the power. :FFF:
If you bait moderation in such a way that everyone approves of your moderation, you make no change. If you don't have majority consensus, which you don't, any rebellion you start is (a minor irritant of) a threat to the status-quo (where the status-quo is threads not being interrupted by "didn't read" gifs). The community acquiesce to use of force against your dissent and the hegemony reasserts itself.
You're hopelessly alone in your rebellion and incapable of convincing anyone to take your side which is why you will always fail.
I find him hilarious, to tell the truth. I can't tell if it's trolling or satire but I've been reading it as satire.
I like him alot better than most of our trolls so far. I actually do wish his post ITT had been left in place because it was even funnier in context.
Quote from: Balls Wellington on September 07, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
I like him alot better than most of our trolls so far. I actually do wish his post ITT had been left in place because it was even funnier in context.
Make a stand. Just once
Quote from: Balls Wellington on September 07, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
I like him alot better than most of our trolls so far. I actually do wish his post ITT had been left in place because it was even funnier in context.
:lulz: it really was. In fact, I felt it contributed positively to the conversation.
Quote from: Delcon on September 07, 2013, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Balls Wellington on September 07, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
I like him alot better than most of our trolls so far. I actually do wish his post ITT had been left in place because it was even funnier in context.
Make a stand. Just once
Not required. You're free to post as you see fit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 07, 2013, 07:34:05 PM
Quote from: Delcon on September 07, 2013, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Balls Wellington on September 07, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
I like him alot better than most of our trolls so far. I actually do wish his post ITT had been left in place because it was even funnier in context.
Make a stand. Just once
Not required. You're free to post as you see fit.
Thanks Benny
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 06, 2013, 08:55:12 PM
My advice is for people to stop attempting to get me to SHUT UP, because they disagree with me.
Because:
A). It's not ever going to work
and
B). Practice what you preach
RWHN,
I've never tried to make you shut up. I don't think I've ever resorted to personal attacks when we've discussed "The Topic". It used to be that when we discussed "The Topic" both sides would move a little. I, for example, accepted that about 7-10 percent of marijuana users can develop an addiction. I've always supported your position that recreational marijuana should be regulated to reduce exposure to kids. I remember when you conceeded that the stories of weed laced with 'evil drug x' and pot baggies mixed with glass powder were obviously u8rban myths you'd been told something wrong by your peers at that conference. We didn't come to any agreement about the topic, but those threads seemed interesting, informative and entertaining. In the past year or so, its all turned to screeching. You seem to have abandoned any ability to conceed valid points from the opposition and you continue to make statements that are either not well supported or supported only by groups with a specific agenda.
Now, all that being said, there's another point here as well. Sometimes, topics on PD turn into shit. No matter how intersting or nice both sides of a debate mioght be, the debate itself always turns to nasty nasty business. I enjoy discussing "magic", "anarchism" etc. but I don't jump in everytime the topics come up here, because A) people know what I think and B) I know what kind of mess will result. Just because a thread mentions drugs, legalization, etc. It doesn't mean you need to voice your opinion on it. We know your opinion on it. It would be different if you were bringing in an additional perspective (like Cain does with various political topics) but your posts don't do that... or at least haven't done that in quite awhile.
I think you've taken the PD response a bit too personally. PD doesn't respond well to the same old tired argument... but thats a response to the argument, not the poster. as I had to learn myself.
Now, all that being said, personally, given the nature of the drug situation at this point... I would love to see your arguments join the 21st century. Its obvious that marijuana legalization is going to happen, at least in some states, if not everywhere. Why not take the debate there? OK, marijuana is going to be legalized, HOW do we protect kids? HOW do we regulate? What could we reasonably expect as side effects of this? What are the positives, what are the negatives and wht can we do NOW as things change to make it the least harmful scenario? Imagine, if there were a bunch of top notch brains having this debate as alcohol prohibition was ending... what could have been do then that would have benefitted society as alcohol was reintroduced? What kind of education can we give kids NOW, based on facts rather than scare tactics?
Those are a raft of undiscussed topics, ripe for legitimate debate.
I miss debating the drugs topic with you... I'm really tired of the mess we've all been in for the past year+
Good post, Rat.
AFAIK, I haven't really participated in any drug debate or shit flinging from and toward RWHN so maybe that allows me to take a neutral position ITT. I dunno.
On one hand I've always felt a sense of respect for RWHN for sticking to his guns regardless of how carried away these threads have become. On the other, none of them have really resulted in anything of value. When I first came to PD I regarded RWHN as good people and would give his posts the attention they deserve.
Since this whole situation began, however, I found myself disregarding his posts because I suspect that he doesn't really give a shit either. I can kinda understand that given that the trend around here can be very confrontational. There seems to be a tendency toward "I disagree with you therefore you're an idiot/fucktard/whatever" rather than "I disagree with your point," -- and that's it.
Now the former is pretty easy to sidestep because, honestly, who cares? That's just the nature of the place. (i.e. the Internet)
So, from my (admittedly) rather limited perspective, it seems like RWHN would hold on to the former and just stopped giving a shit. I also suspect his posts are colored by a lot of personal shit (which is, of course, none of our business).
If I could have it my way, I'd love for the old RWHN to come back. No need for truces or apologies or changing of principles...just back to business as usual. If this be the case, I'd also love for folks to give him a chance and just let go the past year or so. It wasn't always like this.
I hear that burns. And you know i dont hate the guy either. Even at the worst of it i didnt hate him.
I remember a time when he was just some other spag. I miss those days.
Im never going to agree with him on drugs or his damaged sense of humor. But. Id still be his friend. Even now. If only he would snap out of it.
Also i think i have an open letter in the works but his track record of late is discouraging especially where he still hasnt responded to the intervention analogy.
Sorry, life is a little busy this weekend. But I have been reading what everyone has been posting, and I will respond when I have more time and space.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 08, 2013, 11:54:43 PM
Sorry, life is a little busy this weekend. But I have been reading what everyone has been posting, and I will respond when I have more time and space.
Take your time. Thanks for the acknowledgement. I still have hope that this is salvageable and that this thread will be fruitful. No one ever said that rebuilding bridges was an easy task.
Twidbridge still heavily damaged but twidgrad is accepting new and improved blueprint proposals.
Dear Uncle What's His Name,
I'm sorry that all of this has come to this, but I'm hoping that these open letters will, as I said before, bear some fruit. The fact that you apologized for calling me an assface is promising. I'm going to continue to disagree with you on your stance on marijuana, and more importantly, your stance on the death penalty (honestly, I'm more horrified by that, but I've made no secret of it, and I hope that you eventually change your position on that, more than your position on the ganj).
Things have gotten pretty nasty over the past couple of months, as evidenced by the fact that even I have taken an antagonistic position towards you (for reasons that had nothing to do with drugs), and you know, if we can all bury the hatchet, and get on with other things, I'm all in favor. I admit that I've engaged in a bit of the ad hominem, and I'm a bit disappointed in myself for that. Anger does funny things, and I was angry that you were twisting my words, whether intentional or not. I'll remind you that recently that I disagreed with Bearman's attack thread, even though I consider him a friend, and that I voiced my opposition to my other friend, Waffles', statement that he would pull your plug. I consider Waffles a pretty close friend, but that was a bit much. Our relationship, whatever that may be, is damaged, but you are a human, just like I am, and I would prefer you to thrive and be happy, even if we end up hating each other. I'm slow to hate, and as far as I know, there is only one person in the world who has my irreparable hatred. Burying the hatchet is going to be difficult though, as evidenced by what Alty, Gogira and Paes have said, and what others have said in more subdued words.
The fact of the matter is is that Roger, one of your main antagonists here, has gone out of his way to empathize and reach out to you. Your response to him has been, well, disappointing. I can see if you want something in return, but really what this was is Roger reaching out to you and offering a peace treaty. Not a truce, a peace treaty. He gave some words of advice, and your response made it seem like you were rebuking him. That's part of the problem, and he's right. You're kinda stuck on #1, as well as subsets of the other numbers. We're not this monolithic force. Again, I'll remind you, my beef with you had nothing to do with drugs, even though we disagree on the topic. It had to do with how you took my words in relation to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and what he does or doesn't deserve, and where I stood on the value of human life. The bridges aren't burned because of careless joints, they're burned because you absentmindedly covered them in gasoline and dropped some matches.
I hope that my intervention analogy hit home. Because I can't think of how else to put this thread in perspective. Just say no, dude. It's not backing down from your principles or anything, it's just acknowledging that some things are just useless, toxic even. And I think that's what makes it a good analogy. It's bad for us, but we all come away with a bit of a high. But your response here has made me think that you're trying to save some sort of face, where you don't have to. I kinda feel like you're opting to be an asshole in order to not look like a pussy (don't take that as antagonistic, I'm not saying that you're either by nature).
And you know, it's not like it's impossible. Your puns in general irk me (I think mostly because they feel like a trap- it might be in the presentation where I see a subject that might be interesting and then I get pun all over my face) but, when I was doing the bit where Waffles was in Maine, I liked your Nunavut pun. I miss the old you, even where the old you was implying some major news development and me ending up grrrring at the screen. I miss not automatically associating you with your stance on prohibition.
So, I apologize in my part for pooping all over you, and I hope that you see Roger's open letter for what it is- an olive branch, from him specifically, and how you may be able to mend relations in general. This is my olive branch. As far as I'm concerned, unless you say otherwise, we're cool. Others will obviously still poop on you, but how you interact with the board from here on out will determine if they continue to do so. That's all that Roger was saying. I agree with his open letter entirely. Not because he's one of the cool kids, but because he's right, and it was pretty honorable of him to do so.
Come back, man.
Your disowned Nephew,
Twid
Sign peace treaty here:
x ___________________________
Treaty signed. Ideally I'd have a long-winded post here responding to different points in the different responses, but I'm just not equipped with the adequate stores of free time to do that and do it justice. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm completely honky-dorey with everything that's been said. But what I will say is that if people can just be cool I can be too.
My most adamant request would be to keep my personal life out of philosophical disagreements unless I bring it up. If we can agree to that very basic, and I think reasonable request, we can all be cool.
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed. Ideally I'd have a long-winded post here responding to different points in the different responses, but I'm just not equipped with the adequate stores of free time to do that and do it justice. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm completely honky-dorey with everything that's been said. But what I will say is that if people can just be cool I can be too.
My most adamant request would be to keep my personal life out of philosophical disagreements unless I bring it up. If we can agree to that very basic, and I think reasonable request, we can all be cool.
I am down with that. Furthermore, I apologize for every single one of the shitty things I've said to or about you in the last couple of years, and for baiting you.
NO WAR ON RWHN
NO WAR ON SYRIA
NO WAR IN FURRIES
NO WAR ON DRUGS
THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA I GREW UP IN.
Dear RWHN,
I got mad at you because you refused my cookies. Your stated reason of "I HAVE KIDS" rubbed me hella the wrong way because I have kids, too. So I started pointing out instances of your personal privacy policy being fucking weird because I was still pissed about the snub. My bad.
I'm not going to make a big speech.
Just gonna let things drop.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 10, 2013, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: I, Regulator on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed. Ideally I'd have a long-winded post here responding to different points in the different responses, but I'm just not equipped with the adequate stores of free time to do that and do it justice. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm completely honky-dorey with everything that's been said. But what I will say is that if people can just be cool I can be too.
My most adamant request would be to keep my personal life out of philosophical disagreements unless I bring it up. If we can agree to that very basic, and I think reasonable request, we can all be cool.
I am down with that. Furthermore, I apologize for every single one of the shitty things I've said to or about you in the last couple of years, and for baiting you.
Accepted. Thanks.
Quote from: V3X on September 10, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
NO WAR ON RWHN
NO WAR ON SYRIA
NO WAR IN FURRIES
NO WAR ON DRUGS
THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA I GREW UP IN.
I got a call last night informing me that the mj legalization referendum in Maine is going to be in 2016. My colleague and I gave a synchronized sigh of relief as, believe it or not, I am really fucking tired of talking about marijuana. It's been two years straight.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 06:46:14 PM
Dear RWHN,
I got mad at you because you refused my cookies. Your stated reason of "I HAVE KIDS" rubbed me hella the wrong way because I have kids, too. So I started pointing out instances of your personal privacy policy being fucking weird because I was still pissed about the snub. My bad.
If it's any consolation, I often say "no thanks" to people IRL when they offer me food. Don't know why, it's just one of my idiosyncracies I guess.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 06:47:16 PM
I'm not going to make a big speech.
Just gonna let things drop.
Works for me.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:52:40 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 06:46:14 PM
Dear RWHN,
I got mad at you because you refused my cookies. Your stated reason of "I HAVE KIDS" rubbed me hella the wrong way because I have kids, too. So I started pointing out instances of your personal privacy policy being fucking weird because I was still pissed about the snub. My bad.
If it's any consolation, I often say "no thanks" to people IRL when they offer me food. Don't know why, it's just one of my idiosyncracies I guess.
's fair. Getting snubbed and getting butthurt about being snubbed is a long standing Discordian tradition.
YAY GROUP HUG!!!!!
:)
I accidentally super gay thread while we all touch dicks with the internet.
Quote from: Delcon on September 11, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
I accidentally super gay thread while we all touch dicks with the internet.
Were not ones to judge your robosexuality.
FWIW, I'm not really into hugging. Unless you are family or my fiancee. ;)
Quote from: Delcon on September 11, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
I accidentally super gay thread while we all touch dicks with the internet.
For you, Delcon. NSFW-ish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UJ9Ggs3Dkk).
Quote from: Delcon on September 11, 2013, 03:37:22 AM
I accidentally super gay thread while we all touch dicks with the internet.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/a52f620eece2bd214ff2ad0b715f4bb8/tumblr_ms7xwo7z171rzitc0o1_1280.jpg)
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 03:59:51 AM
FWIW, I'm not really into hugging. Unless you are family or my fiancee. ;)
We'd be afraid that your blazer would eat us anyway. :wink:
Though truth be told, I really didn't notice your suit to much, and I'm not one to talk about ill fitting clothes, since I seem to favor oversized shirts myself.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed.
I knew when you insisted on referring to this thread as a "truce" or a "treaty" that what you had in mind was just generating a respite in which to set up another, different kind of thread-killing BULLSHIT.
So now it's a passive-aggressive combination of strawman arguments and monotonous repetition of the SAME FUCKING THING, over and over again, until the offending thread (ie, one by Nigel or myself) withers up and fucking dies.
You can take your fucking "treaty" and shove it right up your diseased ass, muppet-boy.
Oh, and you dropped this:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zIn_Duk6mFw/S5_r_iCXucI/AAAAAAAAAiU/Sqih6ip9REE/s320/hipster+hat.jpg)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed.
I knew when you insisted on referring to this thread as a "truce" or a "treaty" that what you had in mind was just generating a respite in which to set up another, different kind of thread-killing BULLSHIT.
So now it's a passive-aggressive combination of strawman arguments and monotonous repetition of the SAME FUCKING THING, over and over again, until the offending thread (ie, one by Nigel or myself) withers up and fucking dies.
You can take your fucking "treaty" and shove it right up your diseased ass, muppet-boy.
Oh, and you dropped this:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zIn_Duk6mFw/S5_r_iCXucI/AAAAAAAAAiU/Sqih6ip9REE/s320/hipster+hat.jpg)
Did I miss something? I saw the Miley thread, but that just looked like a discussion...
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed.
I knew when you insisted on referring to this thread as a "truce" or a "treaty" that what you had in mind was just generating a respite in which to set up another, different kind of thread-killing BULLSHIT.
So now it's a passive-aggressive combination of strawman arguments and monotonous repetition of the SAME FUCKING THING, over and over again, until the offending thread (ie, one by Nigel or myself) withers up and fucking dies.
You can take your fucking "treaty" and shove it right up your diseased ass, muppet-boy.
Oh, and you dropped this:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zIn_Duk6mFw/S5_r_iCXucI/AAAAAAAAAiU/Sqih6ip9REE/s320/hipster+hat.jpg)
Did I miss something? I saw the Miley thread, but that just looked like a discussion...
Sure as fuck does, until you look at the totality of his posts, which were THE SAME FUCKING THING EACH TIME, until the OP got disgusted and walked out.
BUT HEY, FUCK, IT'S ME YOU'RE TALKING TO...So obviously, this is ALL IN MY HEAD and should be DISREGARDED. I'm always on about shit like this, and obviously I must be the BAD GUY in the situation, because I have no actual intelligence or personality, JUST MINDLESS RAGE! UNNNNNG!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed.
I knew when you insisted on referring to this thread as a "truce" or a "treaty" that what you had in mind was just generating a respite in which to set up another, different kind of thread-killing BULLSHIT.
So now it's a passive-aggressive combination of strawman arguments and monotonous repetition of the SAME FUCKING THING, over and over again, until the offending thread (ie, one by Nigel or myself) withers up and fucking dies.
You can take your fucking "treaty" and shove it right up your diseased ass, muppet-boy.
Oh, and you dropped this:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zIn_Duk6mFw/S5_r_iCXucI/AAAAAAAAAiU/Sqih6ip9REE/s320/hipster+hat.jpg)
Did I miss something? I saw the Miley thread, but that just looked like a discussion...
Sure as fuck does, until you look at the totality of his posts, which were THE SAME FUCKING THING EACH TIME, until the OP got disgusted and walked out.
BUT HEY, FUCK, IT'S ME YOU'RE TALKING TO...So obviously, this is ALL IN MY HEAD and should be DISREGARDED. I'm always on about shit like this, and obviously I must be the BAD GUY in the situation, because I have no actual intelligence or personality, JUST MINDLESS RAGE! UNNNNNG!
Ummm, I just thought I'd missed other threads. I mean, it wasn't great content, but I didn't think it was really intentional. I also wasn't calling you anything, I was just asking.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
but I didn't think it was really intentional.
You've been gone for a while.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Treaty signed.
I knew when you insisted on referring to this thread as a "truce" or a "treaty" that what you had in mind was just generating a respite in which to set up another, different kind of thread-killing BULLSHIT.
So now it's a passive-aggressive combination of strawman arguments and monotonous repetition of the SAME FUCKING THING, over and over again, until the offending thread (ie, one by Nigel or myself) withers up and fucking dies.
You can take your fucking "treaty" and shove it right up your diseased ass, muppet-boy.
Oh, and you dropped this:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zIn_Duk6mFw/S5_r_iCXucI/AAAAAAAAAiU/Sqih6ip9REE/s320/hipster+hat.jpg)
Did I miss something? I saw the Miley thread, but that just looked like a discussion...
It was. I was intentionally discussing the topic. Viewing the videos, reading the links, and discussing my view. But it feels like a difference of opinion isn't welcome for some reason. I've been civil, haven't called anyone names. Though I've been labled a snob and now a retard.
So yeah, it's all my fault, or something.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 05:55:12 PM
It was. I was intentionally discussing the topic. Viewing the videos, reading the links, and discussing my view. But it feels like a difference of opinion isn't welcome for some reason. I've been civil, haven't called anyone names. Though I've been labled a snob and now a retard.
So yeah, it's all my fault, or something.
You were deliberately trolling, Beaker. :lulz:
You just used a slightly different tactic, on the same old targets.
Whether or not you were deliberately trolling, you totally posted the same thing over and over and over. I didn't jump into that thread until just now because I didn't want to be in the middle of the argument.
Hey, ypu can't account for style.
That's just his style, dudes. I, for one, am totally willing to accept that.
Totally.
It was basically "I don't see it so you don't, either" over and over and over again.
Fine, we disagree. No need to go on repeating the same disagreement as if it somehow nullifies what everyone else is noticing.
It was a little like someone walking into a discussion about the effect of chronic stress on dopamine receptors and repeating "I don't get it, I don't see how that is, it looks the same as any other brain" until all that remains of the conversation is people trying to explain the basics of receptor attrition and the guy saying "I just don't see it, I don't think you guys know what you're talking about". Original, interesting conversation dead, remaining conversation frustrating and unproductive.
Fine, I get that's just his MO now. I will only ask that the rest of you don't let him derail threads that I start, OK? By which I mean, if he starts repeating the same objection over and over, just let it go.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
Whether or not you were deliberately trolling, you totally posted the same thing over and over and over. I didn't jump into that thread until just now because I didn't want to be in the middle of the argument.
No. Actually not accurate.
And I was discussing, and not arguing with anyone. TGRR is the one who decided to blow a gasket and go nutty. Eh, I agreed to the treaty but that doesn't mean I'm not going to offer dissenting opinions when I have them.
But I'll say in this thread what I specifically avoided saying in the other thread to really blow it up.
Which is, I think Miley Cyrus is a talentless tool. I say this as a father of a daughter who followed her career. I've seen the Hannah Montanna movie more times than I care to say. Saw pretty much every Hannah Montanna episode and have heard way too many of her songs. She is an awful awkward actress. Her "acting" in that video is just as awful as what she did for Disney.
I think the VMA thing looked awkward and unsexy because I think she just plain sucks. She definitely did leave an important element out. It's called talent. Looks like she inherited her "talent" from her dad.
That's fine. How many dozens of times are you going to shout it into the conversation of people who think otherwise. You are entitled to your opinion. You stated it. Good job.
Maybe as many times as you guys stated your opinion over and over again? I brought up all kinds of angles and comparisons. I disagreed with the prevailing opinion, you guys seemed to be offended by that which is complete nonsense. Look, if a thread is only allowed to have the choir post, just say so.
Okay. I am going to ask you to state one thing. What is the title of that thread?
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 13, 2013, 02:25:31 AM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
Whether or not you were deliberately trolling, you totally posted the same thing over and over and over. I didn't jump into that thread until just now because I didn't want to be in the middle of the argument.
No. Actually not accurate.
And I was discussing, and not arguing with anyone. TGRR is the one who decided to blow a gasket and go nutty. Eh, I agreed to the treaty but that doesn't mean I'm not going to offer dissenting opinions when I have them.
But I'll say in this thread what I specifically avoided saying in the other thread
Fucking thing ate my post.
You seem to have missed the posts where people have taken your perspective, and suggested that her past apparent lack of talent, nor her presumed intentions, have little to do with what actually happened.
I'd suggest you focus on the former rather than the latter.
The latter being focusing on peoe who directly oppose your POV.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 13, 2013, 02:25:31 AM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
Whether or not you were deliberately trolling, you totally posted the same thing over and over and over. I didn't jump into that thread until just now because I didn't want to be in the middle of the argument.
No. Actually not accurate.
And I was discussing, and not arguing with anyone. TGRR is the one who decided to blow a gasket and go nutty. Eh, I agreed to the treaty but that doesn't mean I'm not going to offer dissenting opinions when I have them.
But I'll say in this thread what I specifically avoided saying in the other thread to really blow it up.
Which is, I think Miley Cyrus is a talentless tool. I say this as a father of a daughter who followed her career. I've seen the Hannah Montanna movie more times than I care to say. Saw pretty much every Hannah Montanna episode and have heard way too many of her songs. She is an awful awkward actress. Her "acting" in that video is just as awful as what she did for Disney.
I think the VMA thing looked awkward and unsexy because I think she just plain sucks. She definitely did leave an important element out. It's called talent. Looks like she inherited her "talent" from her dad.
I used to hate Mindless Self Indulgence, Morbid Angel, Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Johnny Cash, and hell, even Ke$ha. You gotta catch them at the right moment. Once you get that right moment, it all makes sense and you get to enjoy the stuff that you stubbornly rejected for some reason. The first MSI song I heard was Shut Me Up when I was going through my Black Metal is awesome thing. It grated on me for stupid reasons. He likes his coffee black, just like his metal, but it was not a Metal song, let alone a Black Metal one. Then one of Villager's housemates played Never Wanted to Dance in the Car a month ago and now because of one riff in that song, I can't get enough of them. Morbid Angel was an impulse buy. Then I got stoned, and now I listen to it stone sober at work. I didn't like Du Hast, but Engel sold me on Rammstein, and they put on one fuck of a show. Manson I didn't get at all until I saw him at Ozzfest. Cradle of Filth required an assist from Emperor (let's face it, Dani's vocal style is not terribly approachable, and combine that with the fact the first I heard was the poor sound quality Cruelty and the Beast, I was like, fuck these guys. Johnny Cash? Country. Didn't want to hear it. Folsom Prison Blues. Done. And Ke$ha? Still hate listening to her shit but she writes really solid, serious songs for other people. She just knows what pays well. So good on her. She's smarter than you or I. She's getting paid to troll the masses. Miley Cyrus? Don't know. Not particularly interested. So I say nothing about it and only skimmed the first page to confirm that she's also trolling the masses. Good on her too. Still not going to listen to her music or tune into TMZ ever. So why mention it? I'm sure she is actually talented. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing.
Do you like Anarchangel? Do you think we're talented? Remember Holist?
Totally aside, Emperor and Ihsahn are the be all and end all of black metal. I understand what you're saying about cradle of filth, but god I hate that annoying midget. If you missed them, be sure to check out the Ihsahn solo stuff. Prometheus is still the masterpiece, but he's come damn close a few more times.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 08:15:01 AM
Totally aside, Emperor and Ihsahn are the be all and end all of black metal. I understand what you're saying about cradle of filth, but god I hate that annoying midget. I've you missed them, be sure to check out the Ihsahn solo stuff. Prometheus is still the masterpiece, but he's come damn close a few more times.
I haven't caught much of Ihsahn's solo stuff. Prometheus was an excellent album, though. It had to grow on me though. I'd still say my favorite Emperor album was IX Equilibrium. And parts of that had to grow on me too. Used to be that Decrystallizing Reason was my favorite song off of that, but now it's Nonus Aequilibrium. I just had to get past the first minute.
Also, I agree. Emperor IS Black Metal. End of story. They weren't the first Black Metal band, but they are THE Black Metal band.
Also, Waffles knows Ihsahn. Not shitting you.
(to those that don't follow Emperor, Prometheus was their final studio album, IX Equilibrium was their final tour, other than a sort of reunion. IX marks a shift in their music towards a.... still heavy as fuck but something different to the standard fare)
Going to this would have made my day in 2006-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akP_iJT2RH8
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 04:19:37 AM
Fucking thing ate my post.
Was PD giving you issues yesterday? I was getting timeouts around midnight last night...
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
Also, Waffles knows Ihsahn. Not shitting you.
WHAT
He's a shy guy, apparently.
No, really, I made a womp of him as the new guy in Emperor on the grounds of Norway when he first signed on here and that's how I found out.
Another totally true not shitting you fact about Waffles- he tried out to be Mortiis' bassist.
ETA: and made jokes about his nose to his face.
Twid,
Seriously, not shitting you.
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 09:08:39 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
Also, Waffles knows Ihsahn. Not shitting you.
WHAT
He's a shy guy, apparently.
No, really, I made a womp of him as the new guy in Emperor on the grounds of Norway when he first signed on here and that's how I found out.
Another totally true not shitting you fact about Waffles- he tried out to be Mortiis' bassist.
ETA: and made jokes about his nose to his face.
Twid,
Seriously, not shitting you.
I need to talk to waffles NOW. Holy. Shit.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 09:08:39 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 08:33:23 AM
Also, Waffles knows Ihsahn. Not shitting you.
WHAT
He's a shy guy, apparently.
No, really, I made a womp of him as the new guy in Emperor on the grounds of Norway when he first signed on here and that's how I found out.
Another totally true not shitting you fact about Waffles- he tried out to be Mortiis' bassist.
ETA: and made jokes about his nose to his face.
Twid,
Seriously, not shitting you.
I need to talk to waffles NOW. Holy. Shit.
There was this thing going on for a bit where we were joking around that Waffles knows everyone. But, he described it as such: Ain't much going on in Norway, but when there is, Waffles makes sure he's there, so he meets a lot of interesting, and to us, totally inaccessible people. Fucking, he has photographic evidence that he hangs out with Amanda Palmer and Neil Gaiman. For fucking barbecues.
Fuck moving back down south, I need to get a job in Norway.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 13, 2013, 09:21:04 AM
Fuck moving back down south, I need to get a job in Norway.
Seriously. I'll learn Nynorsk.
Well, actually I won't move outside of GBA. Love that dirty water and all of that.
Twid,
will likely die in or around Boston
Look at it this way-
I once had a conversation with a famous person. Rob Dickinson, from Catherine Wheel. Now, I never really listened to Catherine Wheel, and he was doing this solo thing for his album Fresh Wine for the Horses or something at TT the Bear's in Cambridge, where I have also seen LMNO's band. My girlfriend at the time LOVED Catherine Wheel, so of course we went.
You might notice that his last name is Dickinson. So I showed up wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt, knowing that he was Bruce Dickinson's cousin. At some point he asked for requests, so I shouted out "Number of the Beast" and he said, "interesting..." and started playing the intro. After the show was over he said he'd be hanging around to talk to people. So I walk up to him with my Maiden tee and a big shit eating grin, and he's like, "it was you!" and I said, "you're way taller than Bruce." And, you know, he was just some other guy to me. Everyone else was too spazzed to talk to him, ex included.
Now, picture that, except I'm a ukelele playing Viking and I got your phone number because I do that sort of shit all of the time, except I'm actually there to see you specifically, like all of the people spazzing out.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 04:23:23 AM
The latter being focusing on peoe who directly oppose your POV.
The latter wasn't happening, thank you very much. I mean, it's kind of impossible to not discuss my opposing point of view without discussing it with the people wth the opposite view. I was being quite civil as well. It was others who decided to get personal and call me a snob, retard, etc.
But I supposewe just HAVE to continue to make me the bad guy anytime I have a differing opinion right?
This is fucking ridiculous.
You either flounce a hero or post long enough to see yourself become a bitter troll.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 13, 2013, 11:29:54 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 04:23:23 AM
The latter being focusing on peoe who directly oppose your POV.
I am fucking ridiculous.
/
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/lisafx/lisafx1010/lisafx101000018/7920393-funny-birthday-clown-wearing-over-sized-novelty-sunglasses.jpg)
You didn't even make it a week. Nice going.
Quote from: Twigel on September 13, 2013, 04:41:17 AM
I used to hate Mindless Self Indulgence, Morbid Angel, Rammstein, Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Johnny Cash, and hell, even Ke$ha.
Not really familiar with MSI. Morbid Angel were good in the golden era of death metal. Their last album was a complete embarrassment. Rammstein, MM, and Cradle of Filth are all kinda boring but I don't "hate" them. I've always liked Johnny Cash.
QuoteYou gotta catch them at the right moment. Once you get that right moment, it all makes sense and you get to enjoy the stuff that you stubbornly rejected for some reason. The first MSI song I heard was Shut Me Up when I was going through my Black Metal is awesome thing. It grated on me for stupid reasons. He likes his coffee black, just like his metal, but it was not a Metal song, let alone a Black Metal one. Then one of Villager's housemates played Never Wanted to Dance in the Car a month ago and now because of one riff in that song, I can't get enough of them. Morbid Angel was an impulse buy. Then I got stoned, and now I listen to it stone sober at work. I didn't like Du Hast, but Engel sold me on Rammstein, and they put on one fuck of a show. Manson I didn't get at all until I saw him at Ozzfest. Cradle of Filth required an assist from Emperor (let's face it, Dani's vocal style is not terribly approachable, and combine that with the fact the first I heard was the poor sound quality Cruelty and the Beast, I was like, fuck these guys. Johnny Cash? Country. Didn't want to hear it. Folsom Prison Blues. Done. And Ke$ha? Still hate listening to her shit but she writes really solid, serious songs for other people. She just knows what pays well. So good on her. She's smarter than you or I. She's getting paid to troll the masses. Miley Cyrus? Don't know. Not particularly interested. So I say nothing about it and only skimmed the first page to confirm that she's also trolling the masses. Good on her too. Still not going to listen to her music or tune into TMZ ever. So why mention it? I'm sure she is actually talented. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing.
Sure, she's doing stuff to piss off parents. Which has been done by many musical acts that have a youthful demographic. She's rebelling against her Disney image, which has been done by many former Disney princesses before her. It's nothing new. What's different is that we're now in this era of going viral on the internet. To do that, you gotta throw out "shocking" crazy shit to get people talking and viewing. I acknowledged that she's done that very well. Where I part ways with everyone else is this idea that it is this deeper commentary or troll of current pop culture. She IS current pop culture. I see it as the complete opposite. I see her hitting all of the right notes in the current era to maximize eyeballs. Not as commentary, but as a pure commercial enterprise.
So I suppose in that regard she is talented. But I stand by everything else. She's a horrible actress and I don't think she is a particularly talented singer either. But, that's like my opinion man. Your results may vary.
QuoteDo you like Anarchangel? Do you think we're talented? Remember Holist?
I like what I've heard yes. But you guys also write your music. Call me a snob, but I hold that in much higher regard than a manufactured pop product.
Using the same standard, the entire Motown catalog is worthless crap.
Well sure, if you are going to be very black/white and overly simplistic about it.
I would hope you can appreciate how you can't make a one-to-one ratio between the Motown era and the current Pop music era. They are oceans apart.
Photogenic performers singing songs written by a team of composers?
Also, Glen Gould was a hack. He only played other people's songs.
The big difference, IMO, is the whole visual/spectacle that is necessary in today's pop music to move units. It isn't AS necessary to have a good singer. You need someone who can be packaged in a way that gets views.
Motown was much more reliant on people who could sing the songs. I mean, take Marvin Gaye for example. The guy was a fucking phenomenal singer. He didn't need to twerk on stage and strip down to make you feel "Let's Get It On". He nailed that just by standing in front of a microphone and singing it.
Having a good voice doesn't cut it anymore. I mean, take a woman like Anneke van Giersbergen who has an absolutely divine voice. She should be huge. But she isn't. She's still kind of languishing in the metal/post-rock world.
But let us also consider, Miley Cyrus is Miley Cyrus. Daughter of a former (if short-lived) pop-country icon. That opens quite a few doors that are not open to people who are more talented but don't come from celebrity.
Nope, no spectacle, no glitz, no glamour, no melodramatic movements, no flirting with the audience, no backup dancers... oh wait. (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marvin+gaye+lets+get+it+on+live&qpvt=marvin+gaye+lets+get+it+on+live&FORM=VDRE&adlt=strict#view=detail&mid=E9CAA96AD214BBB09C6FE9CAA96AD214BBB09C6F)
This will come off as musical snobbery, but whatever it is what I think:
The music in pop music today is a lot more secondary than it was in the Motown era. Sure, groups were photogenic, but if a song sucked, if the group couldn't convincingly interpret it for the audience, the song was going to be a flop.
Today, you can have a shitty song but still move units of you have a properly titilating visual or image to go with it, whether it is a music video, or a viral video of a performance of that song.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
Nope, no spectacle, no glitz, no glamour, no melodramatic movements, no flirting with the audience, no backup dancers... oh wait. (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=marvin+gaye+lets+get+it+on+live&qpvt=marvin+gaye+lets+get+it+on+live&FORM=VDRE&adlt=strict#view=detail&mid=E9CAA96AD214BBB09C6FE9CAA96AD214BBB09C6F)
Nobody would've been talking about Miley Cyrus the next day if she had limited her performance and interpretation of the songs to the level of what Gaye did in his performances.
Whether or not Miley Cyrus is talented, or even if her content is less musically relevant than the dried crust on a trumpet's spit valve, is immaterial to the conversation in the other thread.
I don't think anyone would contest that pop music of that sort is a formulaic, canned product. The music is secondary to the spectacle.
The quality, or musical or historical value of Miley's songs, are not the subject of interest in the other thread.
RWHN, I asked you before, but what was the title of the other thread, again? Just wondering if you caught that. You asked why it was OK for other people to express their opinions in that thread repeatedly, but not you. I was wondering if you might have made the connection regarding why what you were doing pretty much looks like trolling.
I kind of feel like you've spent so long being the adversary here that you've forgotten how to be anything but adversarial, even in threads where it's really not appropriate. Maybe take a long look, a deep breath, and try to start over without the contrarian "I'll show them" attitude.
I was thinking, what if both sides are right? What if this whole thing was designed merely to be part of the Spectacle, and a child-star pop artist did the standard "outrageous" thing in a sort of latter-day debutante's ball... and it went so far over the top it started eating itself?
The taste-makers and the Media Powers set this in motion to grab eyeballs and wallets and Miley agreed and went for it... but the end result turned into a dark mirror, reflecting the system back into itself?
That's a valid possibility, and it leaves both of the main points on either side intact.
Or do you have to be the right man?
On page 3, without protest, it became a discussion on the interpretation of the video along with her VMA stuff. A discussion, which incidentally was sparked by someone other than me. And so I joined the discussion.
And there have been what 7, or 8 pages of discussion since my last post?
And there was discussion happening at the same time I was discussing the topic. And it was all very civil, even despite being labeled a snob and a retard.
So I don't understand the complaint, other than the need to complain and revert to making me some villain simply because I have a different opinion.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 03:19:07 PM
I was thinking, what if both sides are right? What if this whole thing was designed merely to be part of the Spectacle, and a child-star pop artist did the standard "outrageous" thing in a sort of latter-day debutante's ball... and it went so far over the top it started eating itself?
The taste-makers and the Media Powers set this in motion to grab eyeballs and wallets and Miley agreed and went for it... but the end result turned into a dark mirror, reflecting the system back into itself?
That's a valid possibility, and it leaves both of the main points on either side intact.
Or do you have to be the right man?
Of course it is valid and I think I said more or less the same thing in that thread. In this viral-age to get views you need to throw all kinds of crazy shit out there to get views. They picked Miley as the vehicle for that.
But do you see the other half, there? The part where the it starts eating itself?
You mean where it ends up providing sort of an Exhibit A of how awful and crass popular culture has become? Sure.
I just don't agree that it was a deliberate, calculated troll.
It was just THAT bad.
But I also think Hannah Montanna was Exhibit A of how awful and crass entertainment for tween girls has become so I suppose Miley Cyrus was the best choice for that spectacle.
I mean, you should watch an episode or two of that show. It is pretty offensive.
Actually, in a way, it is far more offensive than anything she did on the VMAs.
And it doesn't interest you in the slightest that a calculated, industry crafted, audience-manipulating spectacle like that could fail so miserably at the VMAs? It doesn't make you ask, "what the hell was going on that it got greenlighted?" It didn't make you question, even a little, whether this carefully planned event might end up killing the genre?
If this were all staged and planned by the powers that be, weren't you even curious?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 13, 2013, 03:45:45 PM
And it doesn't interest you in the slightest that a calculated, industry crafted, audience-manipulating spectacle like that could fail so miserably at the VMAs?
Fail? Everyone was talking about it the next day. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. I mean, c'mon, that's what the VMAs have become. The music-video era is dead. This is how MTV clings on to their relevance in the new paradigm.
QuoteIt doesn't make you ask, "what the hell was going on that it got greenlighted?" It didn't make you question, even a little, whether this carefully planned event might end up killing the genre?
Killing what genre? Popular music? It is an unkillable genre. It morphs and changes from one generation to the next, but it will always be there. For better or worse.
QuoteIf this were all staged and planned by the powers that be, weren't you even curious?
Curious about what?
I guess, in a way, I see Miley Cyrus' VMA performance as sort of the William Hung of VMA performances.
As opposed to say some of the Madonna performances that created buzzes the next day, which are kind of like your Kelly Clarksons and Carrie Underwoods of VMA performances.
If that makes any sense.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 13, 2013, 03:23:39 PM
On page 3, without protest, it became a discussion on the interpretation of the video along with her VMA stuff. A discussion, which incidentally was sparked by someone other than me. And so I joined the discussion.
And there have been what 7, or 8 pages of discussion since my last post?
And there was discussion happening at the same time I was discussing the topic. And it was all very civil, even despite being labeled a snob and a retard.
So I don't understand the complaint, other than the need to complain and revert to making me some villain simply because I have a different opinion.
Basically, it's that you keep saying the same thing over, and over, and over again, and it amounts to "nuh uh, you guys are wrong".
You are entitled to that opinion, even though it does betray a very low level of esteem for the thought processes and observations of those you disagree with, but do you really need to repeat it ad nauseum? After a certain point, it just comes across as contrary and deliberately disruptive.
Perhaps you've missed where I have stopped posting in that thread and have been discussing it in this thread.
And also where there have been like 7 or 8 pages of content since my last post so it wasn't disruptive.
Not sure what the beef is other than to have a beef with me.
Also, if you were really tired of me "restating" my position over and over again why did you make this post?
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 08:14:50 AMQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AMI haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What, exactly, don't you agree with?
Was I supposed to ignore your question?
RWHN, I didn't like the show either. I didn't think very much of her. That doesn't mean that I should go into a conversation where people are successfully peeling back layers of why this particular gross spectacle is hitting the buttons that it did, when other similar ones have not. PD discordians (for the most part) are interested in how you create cognitive dissonance in an audience, and the VMA performance and wrecking ball thing succeeded in doing that. It doesn't matter if it was an intentional troll, or if we enjoyed it. Refusing to peel back the layers, both in the art and our own reactions to it, is as dumb as refusing to examine successful military tactics because you disagree with the general's politics.
If you're going to dig your heels in and say nothing's there, that's fine. Arguing the way you did comes across as an attempt to invalidate what other people are seeing, which is pretty rude.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 13, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
RWHN, I didn't like the show either. I didn't think very much of her. That doesn't mean that I should go into a conversation where people are successfully peeling back layers of why this particular gross spectacle is hitting the buttons that it did, when other similar ones have not. PD discordians (for the most part) are interested in how you create cognitive dissonance in an audience, and the VMA performance and wrecking ball thing succeeded in doing that. It doesn't matter if it was an intentional troll, or if we enjoyed it. Refusing to peel back the layers, both in the art and our own reactions to it, is as dumb as refusing to examine successful military tactics because you disagree with the general's politics.
If you're going to dig your heels in and say nothing's there, that's fine. Arguing the way you did comes across as an attempt to invalidate what other people are seeing, which is pretty rude.
I would respectively suggest you read my last two posts ITT, above yours.
What it SEEMS like you're saying is "Move along folks, nothing to see here". Is that what you're saying?