Okay, for once, let's just leave the subject of prohibition, etc, aside.
Drugs are bad. Not because the demon merrywanna is going to turn you into some kind of rape freak or KILL YOU DEAD, not because people get DRUNK and plough their car into a family of five (drunks never seem to hit single-occupancy vehicles, even at 2 in the morning), not because meth will SUCK OUT ALL YOUR CALCIUM AND LEAVE YOU LOOKING LIKE A GEORGE ROMERO EXTRA...No, not for any of these reasons.
No, the reason drugs are bad is this: They both divorce you from the world as it really is while making you think you're actually getting a closer look at reality. And let's just get one thing straight, shall we? When you do Harmine (Ayuasca, for you hippies) or pot or acid or just plain old bourbon, you aren't getting a special view of the REAL, INNER WORKINGS OF THE UNIVERSE. No. You are merely FUCKED UP, and since the brain you are using to observe this is the PART THAT'S FUCKED UP, you think that you're observing impassively the nature of All Things, while in reality you're giggling like a retard in your bean bag chair.
And after a while, it gets harder and harder to see things the way they really are, even when you're not actively using the intoxicant. You left your Slack™ in the bottom of a long neck bottle, and some infernal bar-back has hauled if off, never to be seen again.
The other really neat thing about illegal drugs is this; the people that matter WANT you using them, on account of two things:
1. You're too fucked up to be any trouble, and
2. They can harvest you alongside another few dozen druggies whenever CCA needs more slave labor.
So they have you coming and going, which is hardly surprising. They KNOW a certain portion of the population is going to do drugs whether or not they're legal, an they KNOW that that percentage of the population is the PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION THAT WILL DO DRUGS IF THE DRUGS WERE LEGAL.
You, as a drug user, are a CROP. The banks are making a ton of money off of you now, and CCA will make a ton of money off of you when you get harvested.
There really isn't any upside to doing drugs (including alcohol), when you think about it, except for that monkey impulse to whack your pleasure center with a ball peen hammer at any opportunity.
And that's why we have sex, isn't it?
More later.
Or Kill Me.
Not that anyone will read this, what with a prohibition train wreck ongoing or anything, but:
The human brain has had millions of years of evolution in which the survivors were those best able to process the data they received from their senses. In other words, the ones with the best eyes and the best brains were up a tree a few moments before the leopard arrived and ate their cousin Milty. Milty doesn't get to breed, bad vision and bad processing is edited out of the species, one cousin Milty at a time.
Now, you're taking that brain and deliberately skewing it's functions. You are essentially becoming cousin Milty for a little while, by distorting your perceptions.
And I gotta ask, how does THAT help you see the world in a more efficient or realistic manner? Ask cousin Milty about how that worked out.
It can be fun, though.
I agree. Even on the alcohol aspect.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It can be fun, though.
Sure. I have all sorts of fun that is bad for me and probably isn't giving me anything useful at all, experience-wise.
I've also found that I have more fun at parties if I drink coffee and enjoy some conversation, than if I drink booze and try to have a conversation.
Quote from: Suu on September 16, 2013, 08:12:58 PM
I agree. Even on the alcohol aspect.
Alcohol is just another drug. It's just that it is socially acceptable.
I mostly agree. I drink, but I'm under no delusion that I'm any smarter or wiser or funnier. I drink to give less fucks. Drugs are meh. I've tried a few. :evil:
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:18:06 PM
I mostly agree. I drink, but I'm under no delusion that I'm any smarter or wiser or funnier. I drink to give less fucks. Drugs are meh. I've tried a few. :evil:
Thanks for the input.
You seem a little gangsta.
Alcohol is a terrible drug. It makes you feel false confidence.
You walk into a room full of monkeys, and in order to make them, or yourself, tolerable you pour liquid distraction. After awhile your gut stops trying to twist its way away from all those monkeys, and the booze rushes past it and into your brain and heart, and everything becomes clear.
That's when you start getting stupid and making allowances you would not otherwise.
This, I feel, like any medicine is good in certain doses. Relying on it will turn you into a turnip. Comparatively.
Alty,
Wants, like, 26 beers, has ukcers.
Quote from: Alty on September 16, 2013, 08:24:23 PM
Alcohol is a terrible drug. It makes you feel false confidence.
Yep. You turn into cousin Milty for a while, and it seems fun, because cousin Milty wasn't very bright...And, you know, simple things for simple minds. Minds like cousin Milty's. And sometimes, minds like yours and mine.
Yeah, and the more they make things SUCK, the more people want to JUST GET FUCKED UP AND NOT THINK ABOUT IT FOR AWHILE and the easier it is for them to grab people.
Also moderation and/or drinking at home goes a long way towards not getting tossed in the clink.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:18:06 PM
I mostly agree. I drink, but I'm under no delusion that I'm any smarter or wiser or funnier. I drink to give less fucks. Drugs are meh. I've tried a few. :evil:
Thanks for the input.
You seem a little gangsta.
Gangsta? I've been somewhat cranky lately on account of a deadbeat ex. Might account for it.
Quote from: stelz on September 16, 2013, 08:40:43 PM
Yeah, and the more they make things SUCK, the more people want to JUST GET FUCKED UP AND NOT THINK ABOUT IT FOR AWHILE and the easier it is for them to grab people.
This isn't even a joke either. Look at the degree of involvement of say, the CIA and drug trafficking. There's more than one person who benefits from you being strung out. The immediate profit goes to the dealer and suppliers, the later profit the state when you're working for free for X years.
If anywhere needed a couple hundred or thousand extra prisoners overnight, do you think it would be hard? Do you think the NSA hasn't cracked your super secret weed buying slang?
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:54:45 PM
Also moderation and/or drinking at home goes a long way towards not getting tossed in the clink.
My point is now buried under braggadosio.
Thread over.
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:57:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:18:06 PM
I mostly agree. I drink, but I'm under no delusion that I'm any smarter or wiser or funnier. I drink to give less fucks. Drugs are meh. I've tried a few. :evil:
Thanks for the input.
You seem a little gangsta.
Gangsta? I've been somewhat cranky lately on account of a deadbeat ex. Might account for it.
No worries, I'm a little gangsta myself. And since this thread is now about how much we get fucked up and where, I'll just wander off and do something else.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:54:45 PM
Also moderation and/or drinking at home goes a long way towards not getting tossed in the clink.
My point is now buried under braggadosio.
Thread over.
Didn't mean to turn your thread sideways or 'brag' about drinking at home.
I've had a bunch of stoners tell me all kinds of stories that are totally unrelated to reality and believe them.
I guess the point I should have gotten to a bit more eloquently is that not all people drink just to whack their pleasure centers.
edit: I guess Roger was trying to make more of a point about the ccp rather than people doing drugs to escape reality. My bad.
Actually, my point was that there is no good reason to get fucked up, the only thing approaching a good reason being "it feels good", ie, the pleasure center thing.
I was mostly aiming this at the "DRUGS ARE MAGICKLE" crowd, as well as those who think they somehow make you smarter or more attuned to things.
I mean, if you want to pound on your liver to feel better for a short period of time, that's your fucking business.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 09:27:19 PM
Actually, my point was that there is no good reason to get fucked up, the only thing approaching a good reason being "it feels good", ie, the pleasure center thing.
I was mostly aiming this at the "DRUGS ARE MAGICKLE" crowd, as well as those who think they somehow make you smarter or more attuned to things.
I mean, if you want to pound on your liver to feel better for a short period of time, that's your fucking business.
I would probably say quite a few people do it to not feel bad, but that's just semantics. The "Drugs are magickle" crowd is just plain retarded. There is the social lubricant angle, but thats not always a good idea.
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
I would probably say quite a few people do it to not feel bad, but that's just semantics. The "Drugs are magickle" crowd is just plain retarded. There is the social lubricant angle, but thats not always a good idea.
1. Let's examine that. "My life is a mess, the obvious thing to do is interfere with my ability to think, therefore compounding my problems. Cousin Milty did okay, and he was a dumbfuck. I got this."
2. Yes.
3. A roomful of Cousin Miltys. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It can be fun, though.
Sure. I have all sorts of fun that is bad for me and probably isn't giving me anything useful at all, experience-wise.
I've also found that I have more fun at parties if I drink coffee and enjoy some conversation, than if I drink booze and try to have a conversation.
Um.
-
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It can be fun, though.
Sure. I have all sorts of fun that is bad for me and probably isn't giving me anything useful at all, experience-wise.
I've also found that I have more fun at parties if I drink coffee and enjoy some conversation, than if I drink booze and try to have a conversation.
Um.
That's Holy Stuff™, and is totally different. :lulz:
I mean, by that standard, eating a chocolate bar is taking a drug, right? It's in fact a very powerful mood-altering drug, at that.
DOUR,
Isn't making an exception for himself, it's just that this doesn't apply to him. Or words to that effect.
Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
Illegal drugs also help fund fantastic covert operations by certain branches of government, or elements thereof, which go into propping up the international financial system and thus the insider late-capitalistic form of exploitation we have become intimitely familiar with over the past couple of decades.
Just one example: drug money was laundered by BCCI. The BCCI had several deals with the Bush family. The Bush family helped set up the illegal drug operation which helped to arm and fund the contras...with the profit being put in BCCI banks.
Project Phoenix, the CIA's assassination program in Vietnam which aimed to use terrorist tactics against the VC and the civlian population? Funded by drugs, especially after the withdrawal of US troops in 1973. Project Phoenix used tactics like grabbing a suspected VC informant and two innocent people. The two randoms would be killed - detcord around the neck was a favourite, though some of the mercenaries involved preferred toture and vivisections - and the third would then be persuaded to talk.
Our "allies" in Afghanistan and Colombia? Drug runners, and big ones.
I could go on and on. When you have drugs, you might just be paying to support these people.
Iran/Contra was funded by the invention of crack, IIRC, by the CIA.
ETA, I'd amend that last sentence to say "illegal drugs". If the shit was legal, the yahoos wouldn't be making a dime off of them.
-
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It can be fun, though.
Sure. I have all sorts of fun that is bad for me and probably isn't giving me anything useful at all, experience-wise.
I've also found that I have more fun at parties if I drink coffee and enjoy some conversation, than if I drink booze and try to have a conversation.
Um.
That's Holy Stuff™, and is totally different. :lulz:
I mean, by that standard, eating a chocolate bar is taking a drug, right? It's in fact a very powerful mood-altering drug, at that.
DOUR,
Isn't making an exception for himself, it's just that this doesn't apply to him. Or words to that effect.
:lulz:
Yes, coffee, tea, kava, chocolate, tobacco, and many other legal things are drugs, too.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
Illegal drugs also help fund fantastic covert operations by certain branches of government, or elements thereof, which go into propping up the international financial system and thus the insider late-capitalistic form of exploitation we have become intimitely familiar with over the past couple of decades.
Just one example: drug money was laundered by BCCI. The BCCI had several deals with the Bush family. The Bush family helped set up the illegal drug operation which helped to arm and fund the contras...with the profit being put in BCCI banks.
Project Phoenix, the CIA's assassination program in Vietnam which aimed to use terrorist tactics against the VC and the civlian population? Funded by drugs, especially after the withdrawal of US troops in 1973. Project Phoenix used tactics like grabbing a suspected VC informant and two innocent people. The two randoms would be killed - detcord around the neck was a favourite, though some of the mercenaries involved preferred toture and vivisections - and the third would then be persuaded to talk.
Our "allies" in Afghanistan and Colombia? Drug runners, and big ones.
I could go on and on. When you have drugs, you might just be paying to support these people.
Iran/Contra was funded by the invention of crack, IIRC, by the CIA.
ETA, I'd amend that last sentence to say "illegal drugs". If the shit was legal, the yahoos wouldn't be making a dime off of them.
100% agreed, on that.
I do like to trip balls on mushrooms every five to ten years, though.
Quote from: Cain on September 16, 2013, 09:57:42 PM
Yup, the CIA denied it, but the CIA doesn't always know what its own operatives are up to. In particular, the history of the CIA suggests a parallel network of former good old boys laid off by Carter, NOC types, aristocratic blue bloods with OSS connections and rabid anti-Communists (aka, the WACL and friends) were the responsible party. Gary Webb's Dark Alliance reports focus more on the drugs than the latter, but you can certainly figure out the latter with a bit of historical knowledge.
I also suspect the Contras were a secondary consideration. The Contras were awful. Not just as people, but on an objective, military level, they failed hard. And yet all these dirty operations, drug money laundering, arms sales etc...were for their benefit alone? Come on now. I suspect the above parties saw a way to support an anti-Communist cause, sure, but also to use government resources to line their own pockets.
IIRC, they admitted it in the LA Times, back in the 90s.
And Cain, I gotta say...Sure, some money obviously stuck to someone's fingers here and there. But our intelligence service does dumb fucking shit just because they can. And they're awful just for the sake of being hateful.
I think it's beaten into them at Yale/Harvard.
I agree with the OP. Stopped drinking recently for a number of reasons. One of the major ones was that, despite my colleagues and professors doing it together, it really didn't help lubricate SCIENCE at all. Nor social situations; I'd be drinking at 5 pm on Fridays and even if I could get thinking and talking it wouldn't be anything interesting. I like confronting reality sober, or if not sober, then with a bit of dark chocolate or tea to keep me alert. Drop my guard for a second, and reality doesn't pull punches.
If generating novelty in Science (or any discipline) is all about farming a "diverse investment" of ideas and hoeing later to uncover the prize winning pumpkin, then I can see why some people do drugs to randomize connections. Hell, Kerry Mullis came up with a perfection of PCR in an acid dream. On the other hand, Mullis is an AIDS/climate change denialist and believes in astrology. Either the drugs disconnected his tap to reality, or he was unplugged to begin with. Same is true for Lynn Margulis (I'd say "though without the drugs", but she was married to Carl Sagan).
Point is, doesn't it seem smarter to promote endogenous cultivation rather than exogenous stimulation? Yes, I want to generate novelty, yes, I know that the best way to do so, the lowest risk way, the way that nature takes, is to try lots of things. It feels like slowed reaction time is going to delay the process, not accelerate it. Or the inverse, /overstimulate it/, to the point where I loose track of everything (can't remember your ideas? they never happened). Paul Erdos could do it, one of the few. I'm not in that group. So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 16, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
It can be fun, though.
Sure. I have all sorts of fun that is bad for me and probably isn't giving me anything useful at all, experience-wise.
I've also found that I have more fun at parties if I drink coffee and enjoy some conversation, than if I drink booze and try to have a conversation.
Um.
That's Holy Stuff™, and is totally different. :lulz:
I mean, by that standard, eating a chocolate bar is taking a drug, right? It's in fact a very powerful mood-altering drug, at that.
DOUR,
Isn't making an exception for himself, it's just that this doesn't apply to him. Or words to that effect.
Chocolate fucks me up way worse then alcohol.
I drink once every six months or so, sometimes to excess, sometimes only one or two shots of Whiskey.
But Chocolate, fizzy drinks and sweets are a KILLER for me. At the moment I'm cutting down the bottles of coke to no more then one a week.
Three weeks ago and for the last six months, that has been a litre a day.
I walk home from work in the evenings and every day it's a struggle not to just pig out on sweets. When I do, I eat them until I get the shakes in my hands, and then feel exhausted for hours after that rush is gone.
My main issue with drugs is that they're mostly a waste of time. I do not have time to be all fucked up and not getting anything done.
I guess my other issue with drugs is personal, and that is that I hate most of them.
Drugs are false slack jack.
Booze is amazing everyone becomes less boring and more funny.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 09:03:47 PM
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:57:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 16, 2013, 08:24:06 PM
Quote from: tarod on September 16, 2013, 08:18:06 PM
I mostly agree. I drink, but I'm under no delusion that I'm any smarter or wiser or funnier. I drink to give less fucks. Drugs are meh. I've tried a few. :evil:
Thanks for the input.
You seem a little gangsta.
Gangsta? I've been somewhat cranky lately on account of a deadbeat ex. Might account for it.
No worries, I'm a little gangsta myself. And since this thread is now about how much we get fucked up and where, I'll just wander off and do something else.
Just how better evolved would we be; if we were all straight edge?
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Right. And I SCIENCE best (For Great Justice) when my HEAD is /screwed on straight/.
Quote from: Kai on September 17, 2013, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Right. And I SCIENCE best (For Great Justice) when my HEAD is /screwed on straight/.
Yep. Eureka moments are overrated, and downplay the work involved. Acid MIGHT give you results (maybe, probably not), work WILL, especially in the sciences.
Drinking makes everyone ELSE's jokes way more funny. I'm a very friendly, gregarious drunk when I keep it below the "totally shitfaced" threshold, at which point I fall asleep.
This makes me realize that alcohol is not the drug I am after when I drink socially. The drug I'm after is LAUGHING MY GODDAMN GUTS OUT, and a bit of booze helps that happen faster, and with people I wouldn't normally click with quite that well.
This is why I no longer use marijuana. It fucks me up in a way wherein I'm 100% aware of how slow and stupid it makes me, which makes me just want to hide in a comfortable hole for a bit until I get my brains back.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 17, 2013, 01:58:38 PM
Drinking makes everyone ELSE's jokes way more funny. I'm a very friendly, gregarious drunk when I keep it below the "totally shitfaced" threshold, at which point I fall asleep.
This makes me realize that alcohol is not the drug I am after when I drink socially. The drug I'm after is LAUGHING MY GODDAMN GUTS OUT, and a bit of booze helps that happen faster, and with people I wouldn't normally click with quite that well.
This is why I no longer use marijuana. It fucks me up in a way wherein I'm 100% aware of how slow and stupid it makes me, which makes me just want to hide in a comfortable hole for a bit until I get my brains back.
Interesting.
We have a similar drunk, but a completely different goal with it. My short term goal is not hating having people in my personal space, IE making reality a bit more tolerable. My longer term goal IS to be almost asleep so time passes without me being aware of people.
... Then again, i have problems. mostly with people, in case you couldn't tell.
I somewhat agree with the OP.
I think it depends on what people want to do with their life. I use drugs and I have a pretty damned awesome life. I have a cool job and get to travel all over Europe, I have an awesome wife and we're really happy and I have never had drugs impact my life in a bad way... except alcohol... I've gotten myself pretty sick on too much drink.
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high. I could probably enjoy a 3 day GOA festival without drugs, but I doubt I'd be able to dance for 10 hours in front of 3 story tall speakers and feel like I was having some of the best sex in the world, without some good LSD, a little coke and a few joints. I have no desire to change the world. Its a pretty fucked up place and it will continue to be a fucked up place, no matter what I do. So, I choose to have a fucking good time (and the fucking is important ;-) ). Do I have a good time when no drugs are around? Yes. Do I have a good time when drugs are around? Yes. Am I smacking myself in the pleasure bits of my brain? HELL YES.
That being said, I don't think my experience is true for everyone. I've seen people who use drugs as an escape and it goes badly for them. The important thing, I think, is knowing why the hell you choose to do the drugs. If its to make you feel better, or to escape your shitty life, it won't work and you'll be worse for it. If you're doing it to expand your mind to see the real world, that's a rabbit hole which can suck you in and screw you over.
Nigel's stance on recreational drugs (including alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco): Stay away from the hard and/or synthesized stuff, it's bad for your health. A little of the other stuff now and again probably won't hurt you. Do it for fun, not to avoid stress or negative emotions. If you're doing it every day, that's not good for you.
That's about it.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 17, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high.
And there's nothing really wrong with that. It's
pleasant to be cousin Milty for a while. But you have to remember the whole leopard thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 17, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high.
And there's nothing really wrong with that. It's pleasant to be cousin Milty for a while. But you have to remember the whole leopard thing.
The most disappointing thing about this whole civilized society thing? NO LEOPARDS! how the hell am i going to kill myself in a way that isn't technically suicide now??
Quote from: :regret: on September 17, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 17, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high.
And there's nothing really wrong with that. It's pleasant to be cousin Milty for a while. But you have to remember the whole leopard thing.
The most disappointing thing about this whole civilized society thing? NO LEOPARDS! how the hell am i going to kill myself in a way that isn't technically suicide now??
Statistically, probably motor accident.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 17, 2013, 06:42:10 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 17, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 17, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high.
And there's nothing really wrong with that. It's pleasant to be cousin Milty for a while. But you have to remember the whole leopard thing.
The most disappointing thing about this whole civilized society thing? NO LEOPARDS! how the hell am i going to kill myself in a way that isn't technically suicide now??
Statistically, probably motor accident.
It's kinda like a motorized leopard.
Quote from: :regret: on September 17, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 17, 2013, 04:09:52 PM
Me, I use drugs for the pleasure of the high.
And there's nothing really wrong with that. It's pleasant to be cousin Milty for a while. But you have to remember the whole leopard thing.
The most disappointing thing about this whole civilized society thing? NO LEOPARDS! how the hell am i going to kill myself in a way that isn't technically suicide now??
Oh, there are still leopards. They're just called different things now.
In moderation and not every day drugs can be pretty fun (not magikal, though)
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
Quote from: McGrupp on September 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
DING DING DING
Quote from: McGrupp on September 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
In moderation and not every day drugs can be pretty fun (not magikal, though)
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
:motorcycle:
If this angle (and the complementary "addiction is when you screw up your brain's reward system and seek out lame rewards instead of awesome ones") were used in educating children and adults about drugs, the world would be a better place.
Quote from: McGrupp on September 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
In moderation and not every day drugs can be pretty fun (not magikal, though)
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
Also known as dependency.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on September 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
In moderation and not every day drugs can be pretty fun (not magikal, though)
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
Also known as dependency.
This is a very interesting take on dependency. Dependency not as "I have to take drugs because if I don't I feel sick/tired/depressed/whatever", but dependency as in "I'm bored, and I could work on one of those things I always wanted to do but didn't becuase I had no time... but drugs are easier"
It's like that experiment Bruce Alexander did with some rats. He gave heroin to some lab rats and they were completely dependent. But then he moved the rats to a much bigger cage, where they could socialize with other rats, play in the running wheels and whatnot. Suddenly, the rats were not dependent on heroin anymore.
( I read about that experiment here: http://boingboing.net/2013/09/16/bruce-alexanders-rat-park-a.html )
An analogy could be made with masturbation. It's usually more about relieving boredom than relieving horniness.
Basically, it is dependency if you alter your regular daily life to take drugs. When it replaces those things you listed to try to get the same impacts and feelings from those activities.
It becomes abuse when it is more about trying to regulate and maintain your biology.
What if I take drugs regularly, yet I don't alter my regular daily life?
Not being a jerk, I was curious if there's a term for that.
It would still fall under dependency if you now depended on that being a part of your daily life. A part that wasn't there before you started taking drugs daily. If you could quit it tomorrow and forever with no impacts on your daily life it wouldn't be dependency.
Now, that just doesn't seem fair. First, it's dependency if it takes the place of other activities.
Then, it's dependency even if it doesn't take the place of other activities.
Essentially, you're saying all drug use is dependency.
No, I'm not, I'm saying precisely what I said.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 03:49:16 PM
It would still fall under dependency if you now depended on that being a part of your daily life. A part that wasn't there before you started taking drugs daily. If you could quit it tomorrow and forever with no impacts on your daily life it wouldn't be dependency.
Ok. What you said, precisely, that it's dependency if you're dependent on it.
There's a term for that. I think it's called Circular Reasoning.
No, common sense. if you depend on a drug as part of your daily routine it is dependency. That's why it is called dependency.
Using myself as an example, I drink alcohol like, maybe two or three times a month in strictly social settings. That isn't dependency because a) it hasn't altered my daily life and b) if i never drank again starting today I'd be fine. But if I needed to have that drink every day, we are talking about dependency.
To modify:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 03:46:23 PM
What if I take drugs regularly, yet I don't alter my regular daily life, and I do not feel "dependency" regarding the drug use?
Not being a jerk, I was curious if there's a term for that.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 04:07:15 PM
To modify:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 03:46:23 PM
What if I take drugs regularly, yet I don't alter my regular daily life, and I do not feel "dependency" regarding the drug use?
Not being a jerk, I was curious if there's a term for that.
That is basically the second stage of drug abuse/use. Regular use where the person is able to quit without any impacts on their daily lives or health. if it starts to result in risky behaviors and it does become an integral part of the daily life then it moves into Stage 3 and dependency.
So it wouldn't be dependency.... yet.
:ominous thunder in the distance:
it is very fluid, and people can move up and down stages, though once you get into stages 3 and 4 it becomes much more difficult to move down without professional help.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 04:29:52 PM
it is very fluid, and people can move up and down stages, though once you get into stages 3 and 4 it becomes much more difficult to move down without professional help.
And of course, Prison is the best place to help people.
Everybody stop.
This fucking thread isn't about prohibition, as I believe I mentioned quite politely in the FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE OP. If you must touch yourself in your special place, do it in the other thread. Miserable monkey-fucking primate scum. RWHN, we aren't here to talk about policy. Everyone else, we aren't here to talk about RWHN's beliefs.
:tgrr:
Uh, I haven't made any posts about policy.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Uh, I haven't made any posts about policy.
Sure as hell did. That weird definition of dependency, for example.
Which I am not going to argue about.
The premise of this fucking thread was simple. But it had to be hammered back into the standard form, I see.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
Quote from: McGrupp on September 19, 2013, 02:57:45 PM
In moderation and not every day drugs can be pretty fun (not magikal, though)
The big negative for me with drugs and the one that doesn't seem to get talked about that much is that it's easy to rely on them when you're bored or upset or just to deal with what you're doing at the time. But here's the thing, do that long enough and all the time you would have spent, painting, writing, going outside, creating, thinking, and making new friends was spent on drugs.
Sure it was all a good time but then you wake up and realize that years have passed. You didn't do the things you were really interested in. You're an artist that never made art. You're a writer that never wrote. You go to a party and realize you have nothing to talk about because all you've done is drugs for weeks. And the older you get the more pronounced this gap with the rest of the world becomes.
Alternate states of consciousness can be a lot of fun but if you're fucked up all the time it's not really an altered state, it's just a state.
:motorcycle:
If this angle (and the complementary "addiction is when you screw up your brain's reward system and seek out lame rewards instead of awesome ones") were used in educating children and adults about drugs, the world would be a better place.
you also find that 80%+ of the people you used to do drugs with weren't really friends at all, just someone to score from/ get high with. Sobering up (for me) was some lonely shit.
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
you also find that 80%+ of the people you used to do drugs with weren't really friends at all, just someone to score from/ get high with. Sobering up (for me) was some lonely shit.
That is because, I think, as people use drugs more often, the drugs replace people as the priority.
Which is basically the root problem I was talking about in the OP.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
you also find that 80%+ of the people you used to do drugs with weren't really friends at all, just someone to score from/ get high with. Sobering up (for me) was some lonely shit.
That is because, I think, as people use drugs more often, the drugs replace people as the priority.
Which is basically the root problem I was talking about in the OP.
Yep. Was less of an issue with those friends I had mutual hobbies that weren't blazing a phat one with. Even the stoners.
Also, ever been to dance party where everyone is doing coke? There's not many of your friends actually dancing. They are all in the basement huddled in 2's or 3's doing the nose hoover thing.
The only friends I have from those old days are the people I used to do pagan-y things with or LARPers and other assorted nerds.
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:41:14 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 17, 2013, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Right. And I SCIENCE best (For Great Justice) when my HEAD is /screwed on straight/.
Yep. Eureka moments are overrated, and downplay the work involved. Acid MIGHT give you results (maybe, probably not), work WILL, especially in the sciences.
Eureka moments are usually the result of months or years of working on and thinking about something, anyway; they don't come out of the blue, they're the culmination of a lot of hard (and lucid) work. That is not to say that altered perspectives cannot be occasionally useful; in fact, they are almost necessary for creative research to be done. However, altered perspectives aren't limited to drug use; on the contrary, we should be striving to experience them all the time, under our own power.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:41:14 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 17, 2013, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Right. And I SCIENCE best (For Great Justice) when my HEAD is /screwed on straight/.
Yep. Eureka moments are overrated, and downplay the work involved. Acid MIGHT give you results (maybe, probably not), work WILL, especially in the sciences.
Eureka moments are usually the result of months or years of working on and thinking about something, anyway; they don't come out of the blue, they're the culmination of a lot of hard (and lucid) work. That is not to say that altered perspectives cannot be occasionally useful; in fact, they are almost necessary for creative research to be done. However, altered perspectives aren't limited to drug use; on the contrary, we should be striving to experience them all the time, under our own power.
Well, that's sort of what I was getting at. You have to put the sweat in...This will garner far better results than praying to the LSD Gods.
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 06:07:45 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
you also find that 80%+ of the people you used to do drugs with weren't really friends at all, just someone to score from/ get high with. Sobering up (for me) was some lonely shit.
That is because, I think, as people use drugs more often, the drugs replace people as the priority.
Which is basically the root problem I was talking about in the OP.
Yep. Was less of an issue with those friends I had mutual hobbies that weren't blazing a phat one with. Even the stoners.
Also, ever been to dance party where everyone is doing coke? There's not many of your friends actually dancing. They are all in the basement huddled in 2's or 3's doing the nose hoover thing.
The only friends I have from those old days are the people I used to do pagan-y things with or LARPers and other assorted nerds.
I absolutely cannot stand cokeheads. Awful, boring, intolerable people who think they're really interesting and smart but are actually just the worst kind of stuffed-shirt drones.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
With crochet, I get an end product for the money I spent, not an ashtray full of roaches, I also have a hobby that lets me hang out with loads of other women of varying age ranges and that's kind of fun. With LARP and RPG I get to be an asshat amongst friends and it's generally cheaper log term after you've spent the money on books and kit.
the pagan stuff was pretty pointless. :lulz:
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:16:28 PM
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 06:07:45 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 05:58:58 PM
Quote from: Pixie on September 19, 2013, 05:56:54 PM
you also find that 80%+ of the people you used to do drugs with weren't really friends at all, just someone to score from/ get high with. Sobering up (for me) was some lonely shit.
That is because, I think, as people use drugs more often, the drugs replace people as the priority.
Which is basically the root problem I was talking about in the OP.
Yep. Was less of an issue with those friends I had mutual hobbies that weren't blazing a phat one with. Even the stoners.
Also, ever been to dance party where everyone is doing coke? There's not many of your friends actually dancing. They are all in the basement huddled in 2's or 3's doing the nose hoover thing.
The only friends I have from those old days are the people I used to do pagan-y things with or LARPers and other assorted nerds.
I absolutely cannot stand cokeheads. Awful, boring, intolerable people who think they're really interesting and smart but are actually just the worst kind of stuffed-shirt drones.
I'm already opinionated and gobby. I don't need to add asshole to that list. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 06:15:07 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:13:40 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:41:14 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 17, 2013, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 17, 2013, 03:25:46 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 16, 2013, 10:58:11 PM
So the supposed benefits aren't worth the handicap. Like cutting off a right breast to pull a bowstring better, it seems sensible at first but then there's the realization it sets everything off balance.
And you can always SCIENCE and then accidentally a CROSSBOW, and then the cutting off bit is TOTALLY unnecessary.
Right. And I SCIENCE best (For Great Justice) when my HEAD is /screwed on straight/.
Yep. Eureka moments are overrated, and downplay the work involved. Acid MIGHT give you results (maybe, probably not), work WILL, especially in the sciences.
Eureka moments are usually the result of months or years of working on and thinking about something, anyway; they don't come out of the blue, they're the culmination of a lot of hard (and lucid) work. That is not to say that altered perspectives cannot be occasionally useful; in fact, they are almost necessary for creative research to be done. However, altered perspectives aren't limited to drug use; on the contrary, we should be striving to experience them all the time, under our own power.
Well, that's sort of what I was getting at. You have to put the sweat in...This will garner far better results than praying to the LSD Gods.
Oh god, yes. The people who seek truth or epiphany through drugs are, IMO, simply using drugs as an excuse to avoid WORK, while pretending to do something. "Seeking enlightenment". No, dude, you're completely fucking off, don't pretend you're not just because you're high while you're doing it. There's a reason why all those deep and meaningful ideas you had while high just sound retarded if you record them and then review them when you're sober; it's because they are.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless
at best.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
You mean I have to find a new hobby?!
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
You mean I have to find a new hobby?!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
I hadn't considered the benefits of creativity and stimulating inteligence and socialization for their own sake. A strange mistake to make, certainly. Thanks for bringing it up.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
I hadn't considered the benefits of creativity and stimulating inteligence and socialization for their own sake. A strange mistake to make, certainly. Thanks for bringing it up.
Happy to be useful!
I have been really surprised lately at how much "useless" things I do in my spare time have contributed meaningfully to my life.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
You mean I have to find a new hobby?!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Masturbation builds muscles and sexual stamina (if you do it right), I hate to be the one to tell you this, but wankers are productive members (teehee) of society.
Quote from: :regret: on September 19, 2013, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
I disagree almost completely with your last sentence. Unless your hobby is laying around watching porn and masturbating, most likely it involves either a social or a creative element, possibly both, which stimulate intelligence and forge connections with other people, both of which are constructive uses of time. Some hobbies also result in a salable product or a useful/marketable skill. Hobbies are rarely useless or detrimental, whereas doing drugs is typically pretty useless at best.
You mean I have to find a new hobby?!
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Masturbation builds muscles and sexual stamina (if you do it right), I hate to be the one to tell you this, but wankers are productive members (teehee) of society.
Oh, I'm a big proponent of masturbation! I think everyone should do it once a day.
But watching porn and masturbating as a hobby, maybe not.
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
Well, it IS creative.
But that also might stimulate DOUR to post another rant, an action which I wholeheartedly support.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Uh, I haven't made any posts about policy.
Sure as hell did. That weird definition of dependency, for example.
Which I am not going to argue about.
The premise of this fucking thread was simple. But it had to be hammered back into the standard form, I see.
That's not policy, That is one of the four stages of drug addiction, which is a clinical idea, not a policy idea.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 07:03:05 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
Uh, I haven't made any posts about policy.
Sure as hell did. That weird definition of dependency, for example.
Which I am not going to argue about.
The premise of this fucking thread was simple. But it had to be hammered back into the standard form, I see.
That's not policy, That is one of the four stages of drug addiction, which is a clinical idea, not a policy idea.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
You can REMIX porn made by others, if making it yourself makes you uncomfortable.
Don't distribute the results, though. That would be against intellectual property laws, not to mention the laws of decency.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
You can REMIX porn made by others, if making it yourself makes you uncomfortable.
Don't distribute the results, though. That would be against intellectual property laws, not to mention the laws of decency.
HI! I'M HELPING MAKE
OTHER PEOPLE A COMMODITY!
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
Even for drawporn? Proseporn?
I agree with most of the comments made. Drugs can be bad, drugs can screw you over on hobbies, free time, friends etc. It doesn't always, but I've come to think that my experiences must not be normal. I've begun to wonder if its because I didn't do any drugs until I was 23 or 24 (except alcohol in moderation). Even so, I've never done drugs without research and careful monitoring. I would never tell people that the should do drugs, just because I can't really identify why my experience has been so different.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 03:50:26 PM
Now, that just doesn't seem fair. First, it's dependency if it takes the place of other activities.
Then, it's dependency even if it doesn't take the place of other activities.
It has to take the place of other activities. That other activity might be sitting on the couch staring into space, or picking your nose, or whatever, but you are always doing something.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on September 19, 2013, 06:12:19 PM
I particularly liked McGrupp's emphasis on the cost of drug use being fundamentally an oportunity cost. That is, drugs themselves aren't bad, but there are so many better things you could be doing with your time.
You could say that same thing about many hobbies, though, unless your hobby is fighting crime or something.
The difference I find is that the sort of people that are willing to listen to me talk about mushroom hunting (the tasty kind, not the get you high kind) or LARPing or the latest indie videogame I discovered or whatever are usually more fun to be around (and less likely to steal my shit when I am not looking) than the people who are willing to listen to me talk about the drugs I took.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
Even for drawporn? Proseporn?
ie. drawing and writing?
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 19, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
I agree with most of the comments made. Drugs can be bad, drugs can screw you over on hobbies, free time, friends etc. It doesn't always, but I've come to think that my experiences must not be normal. I've begun to wonder if its because I didn't do any drugs until I was 23 or 24 (except alcohol in moderation). Even so, I've never done drugs without research and careful monitoring. I would never tell people that the should do drugs, just because I can't really identify why my experience has been so different.
No, actually, I think that lots of people do drugs occasionally-to-regularly for fun with no adverse effects. In fact, I know for certain that most people do.
Quote from: Pergamos on September 19, 2013, 08:08:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2013, 03:50:26 PM
Now, that just doesn't seem fair. First, it's dependency if it takes the place of other activities.
Then, it's dependency even if it doesn't take the place of other activities.
It has to take the place of other activities. That other activity might be sitting on the couch staring into space, or picking your nose, or whatever, but you are always doing something.
There are a great many activities which you can do while under the influence of drugs. People do them every day.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
Even for drawporn? Proseporn?
ie. drawing and writing?
Specific applications thereof, yes. There are folks who would not engage in creative activities (or not as often) if the end result wasn't fappable.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 19, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
I agree with most of the comments made. Drugs can be bad, drugs can screw you over on hobbies, free time, friends etc. It doesn't always, but I've come to think that my experiences must not be normal. I've begun to wonder if its because I didn't do any drugs until I was 23 or 24 (except alcohol in moderation). Even so, I've never done drugs without research and careful monitoring. I would never tell people that the should do drugs, just because I can't really identify why my experience has been so different.
No, actually, I think that lots of people do drugs occasionally-to-regularly for fun with no adverse effects. In fact, I know for certain that most people do.
How do you know this "for certain"?
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 19, 2013, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 19, 2013, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 19, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
I agree with most of the comments made. Drugs can be bad, drugs can screw you over on hobbies, free time, friends etc. It doesn't always, but I've come to think that my experiences must not be normal. I've begun to wonder if its because I didn't do any drugs until I was 23 or 24 (except alcohol in moderation). Even so, I've never done drugs without research and careful monitoring. I would never tell people that the should do drugs, just because I can't really identify why my experience has been so different.
No, actually, I think that lots of people do drugs occasionally-to-regularly for fun with no adverse effects. In fact, I know for certain that most people do.
How do you know this "for certain"?
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFSAN/CFSANFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/UCM333191.pdf
Wow.
:thanks:
Are you practicing for a career in politics.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 08:00:00 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 19, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 19, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
MAKING porn as a hobby, on the other hand...
And then we can staple, "HI! I'M A COMMODITY!" to our faces, and go running off into the future!
Even for drawporn? Proseporn?
No.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 20, 2013, 03:36:08 AM
Are you practicing for a career in politics.
DEA = valid source.
FDA = Invalid source.
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
DOUR,
Gives up, this thread is fucking toast, just like any other fucking attempt to discuss this subject at all. Ever.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 20, 2013, 05:35:24 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 20, 2013, 03:36:08 AM
Are you practicing for a career in politics.
DEA = valid source.
FDA = Invalid source.
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
DOUR,
Gives up, this thread is fucking toast, just like any other fucking attempt to discuss this subject at all. Ever.
I've just noticed drug threads are actually interesting if you ignore the drug related posts.
It requires a lot of skipping but in between people are having interesting conversations.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 20, 2013, 05:35:24 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 20, 2013, 03:36:08 AM
Are you practicing for a career in politics.
DEA = valid source.
FDA = Invalid source.
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNG!
DOUR,
Gives up, this thread is fucking toast, just like any other fucking attempt to discuss this subject at all. Ever.
I think you probably missed the point I was making. That's alright though.