Please indulge me as I engage in something I don't usually do.
I am going to share something that lies close to my permafrosted heart over here: Cars, trucks; large, petroleum powered conveyance vehicles.
Whether economical or luxury rated, whether running on fossil fuels alone or graciously coupled with elecrticity, whether steadfastly maintaining your independence or sharing with others in a pool, CARS SUCK.
They suck.
They suck:
-At your bank account (Last year, with insurance, payments, gas, etc. I paid $900 per month for s 2001 Subaru)
-Your back health (studies show)
-Your heart health (STUDIES SHOW)
-Our economic health (as it depends on the WHOLLY, DEEPLY, MULTIFASCETED UNSUSTAINABLE sale of brand new ones every quarter)
-Our political health
In my opinion the ability to accelerate is the basic premise of the benefit of a car. Or, at least, in regular jerkoffs driving them. Getting to work in 15 min instead of 45 min.
That is stupid.
The amount of time saved in a car is not magically used to the benefit of an individual person 99% of the time. We humans, and not to go all peleo on you here buuuuut, we humans MOVE. Our bodies are designed to move. our bodies demand and excel when forced to move over long distances.
When we walk our energy/distance covered ratio is stupidly efficient. When we ride a bike it makes that efficiency SUPER RETARDEDLY EFFICIENT.
The time that it takes to bike (or walk) to a place is best spent doing that. Why in the fuck would you go to a gym? Why? Why? Tell me why when walking enough is enough exercise to acquire the health benefits of exercise?
So, on an individual level, you do your brain and the rest of your body a disservice by using a car.
You also contribute to the overall poor health of you locale (those cars realllly stink when you're not around them a lot. Horrible so. Just about as bad as Marlboros.), and the shitshow that is our socio-economic-political system. You hand feed cash into the part of The Machine that will spit you back out as pure waste.
When you're talking about personal responsibility...what is it that you do with your day? What do you touch? What touches you?
Now, in the above, I have left out some counter points. I'm sure you can think of many. But IN MY OPINION the above is more important.
Just think about what would happen to our economic process if instead of the government "shutting down" every single person in America stopped driving their cars. Just stopped.
Don't talk to me about "too cold" or "too hot". Obviously we have the technology. There is an affordable, sustainable workaround that does not include the waste just one automobile produces from it's production (and the associated outlying effects) to the day it's sitting in a big rusty heap in someone's yard. It's a lot. A lot of material and time and effort that can be spent protecting yourself from the elements in a smarter fashion.
Cars are stupid. They're stupid.
There. There, PD.com. There's my HORRIBLE OPINION about cars.
Proceed to shit hate on me for the rest of my life for daring to show an alternate view that may be unfavorable.
Proceed.
Without cars, though, life in Arizona would be pretty much impossible, given our insanely inflated population.
And without trucks, 80% of the country would starve to death, which is sort of swaying my opinion, here.
1. Splain, please.
2. I knew I was forgetting something:
Some cars are absolutely required: Emergency service and SOME transport of goods/services.
With the resources used on cars we could develop more comprehensive rail systems which should assist with food and such.
Also, DOING IT WRONG.
You're presenting counter points which meet my opinion head on. You're SUPPOSED to just be shitting on me and making personal remarks about my sense of style.
Because that's what happens to unpopular opinions on PD.com. Duuuuuuh.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:16:47 PM
1. Splain, please.
2. I knew I was forgetting something:
Some cars are absolutely required: Emergency service and SOME transport of goods/services.
With the resources used on cars we could develop more comprehensive rail systems which should assist with food and such.
1. Due to the geography of Tucson (arroyos, washes, etc), housing is limited to specific areas. Same thing with businesses, except businesses have DIFFERENT areas (due to runoff of chemicals, etc). As a result, I am more or less forced to live about 30 miles from my job...And I'm hardly alone in this. EVERYTHING in Tucson is 45 minutes away from everything. Unless you are rich enough to live in the legal district, or so POOR that you HAVE to live in the legal district, you have to either drive or take the bus...and the further you get from the legal district, the worse the bus system is.
2. Light rail would be PERFECT for Arizona, but it will never happen, because for some reason, the blue hairs have associated it with communism. No, I don't understand, either.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:17:59 PM
Also, DOING IT WRONG.
You're presenting counter points which meet my opinion head on. You're SUPPOSED to just be shitting on me and making personal remarks about my sense of style.
Because that's what happens to unpopular opinions on PD.com. Duuuuuuh.
:lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:16:47 PM
1. Splain, please.
2. I knew I was forgetting something:
Some cars are absolutely required: Emergency service and SOME transport of goods/services.
With the resources used on cars we could develop more comprehensive rail systems which should assist with food and such.
1. Due to the geography of Tucson (arroyos, washes, etc), housing is limited to specific areas. Same thing with businesses, except businesses have DIFFERENT areas (due to runoff of chemicals, etc). As a result, I am more or less forced to live about 30 miles from my job...And I'm hardly alone in this. EVERYTHING in Tucson is 45 minutes away from everything. Unless you are rich enough to live in the legal district, or so POOR that you HAVE to live in the legal district, you have to either drive or take the bus...and the further you get from the legal district, the worse the bus system is.
2. Light rail would be PERFECT for Arizona, but it will never happen, because for some reason, the blue hairs have associated it with communism. No, I don't understand, either.
1. Electric or gas powered bicycle, with appropriate weather gear/encasing on bike. Just about the same commute time if roads for such travel are constructed.
2. Throw them in the tar pits.
See, the thing is, there are problems with such solutions. But none of them are as costly as every person having their own car, and they are at any rate easily overcome by human ingenuity. To think that our current system is the best just because it's what we do is foolish.
We have enough technology to not use the one piece that we use that does us so much harm.
This is clearly an insufficiently unpopular opinion. You're fucking terrible at being terrible, Alty.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 07, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
This is clearly an insufficiently unpopular opinion. You're fucking terrible at being terrible, Alty.
Hey, it's a well known opinion that I'm GREAT at being terrible.
Careful now.
Also your suit doesn't fit.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
1. Electric or gas powered bicycle, with appropriate weather gear/encasing on bike. Just about the same commute time if roads for such travel are constructed.
How do you weatherize a bike for 115F and direct sunlight?
Quote2. Throw them in the tar pits.
They own the police.
QuoteSee, the thing is, there are problems with such solutions. But none of them are as costly as every person having their own car, and they are at any rate easily overcome by human ingenuity. To think that our current system is the best just because it's what we do is foolish.
We have enough technology to not use the one piece that we use that does us so much harm.
The trick isn't to build or use less cars, Alty. The trick is to build and use BETTER cars. And I don't mean pieces of shit like "hybrids". I'm thinking Smartcars, here, and improvements on them.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
1. Electric or gas powered bicycle, with appropriate weather gear/encasing on bike. Just about the same commute time if roads for such travel are constructed.
How do you weatherize a bike for 115F and direct sunlight?
Quote2. Throw them in the tar pits.
They own the police.
QuoteSee, the thing is, there are problems with such solutions. But none of them are as costly as every person having their own car, and they are at any rate easily overcome by human ingenuity. To think that our current system is the best just because it's what we do is foolish.
We have enough technology to not use the one piece that we use that does us so much harm.
The trick isn't to build or use less cars, Alty. The trick is to build and use BETTER cars. And I don't mean pieces of shit like "hybrids". I'm thinking Smartcars, here, and improvements on them.
Bikes can be built with enclosures, much like a car, at a fraction of the cost. Not a tiny fraction, but a fraction nonetheless. Solar powered products that mitigate the heat have to exist, yeah? Ice, somehow? A coolant system must be possible that isn't AC. Or hell, AC. As long as the enclosure is built properly.
We went into space with foil, I can't imagine it takes that much engineering to get something less than a car but more than a bike to withstand temps. on earth if we can manage it in the vacuum of space.
2. That well and truly is a major part of the problem.
That leaves us still dependent on manufacturers, lobbyists, industry that does not have our best interest at heart.
Additionally, it's my opinion that the only reason we thing we need cars is because of the time those people have spent convincing us of that.
Not a car.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/1811/
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Additionally, it's my opinion that the only reason we thing we need cars is because of the time those people have spent convincing us of that.
Also, running them over with a bike isn't nearly as scary.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:45:40 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Additionally, it's my opinion that the only reason we thing we need cars is because of the time those people have spent convincing us of that.
Also, running them over with a bike isn't nearly as scary.
Yeah. There's that. The machismo of the average car all by itself, the terror and swagger of it, offends me.
This is true, all this shit I'm saying is my actual opinion.
WHERE'S THE HATE?
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:45:40 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Additionally, it's my opinion that the only reason we thing we need cars is because of the time those people have spent convincing us of that.
Also, running them over with a bike isn't nearly as scary.
Yeah. There's that. The machismo of the average car all by itself, the terror and swagger of it, offends me.
This is true, all this shit I'm saying is my actual opinion.
WHERE'S THE HATE?
I'm saving up to bash on Pink Floyd. Which SOMEONE referred to as "subversive", if you can fucking believe THAT.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:47:38 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 09:45:40 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:43:15 PM
Additionally, it's my opinion that the only reason we thing we need cars is because of the time those people have spent convincing us of that.
Also, running them over with a bike isn't nearly as scary.
Yeah. There's that. The machismo of the average car all by itself, the terror and swagger of it, offends me.
This is true, all this shit I'm saying is my actual opinion.
WHERE'S THE HATE?
I'm saving up to bash on Pink Floyd. Which SOMEONE referred to as "subversive", if you can fucking believe THAT.
They do want teachers to leave those kids alone.
Unless of course they see the warning signs of drug use.
Then they should definitely leave the kids alone.
And bring in the dogs.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 09:50:50 PM
They do want teachers to leave those kids alone.
Unless of course they see the warning signs of drug use.
Then they should definitely leave the kids alone.
And bring in the dogs.
WELL, LET'S REVIEW:
Dark Side of the Moon: Rich guys whining about rich guys.
The Wall: Rich guy whining about being rich, plus Roger Waters whining about his dad dying in WWII.
The Final Cut: Roger Waters whining about his dad dying in WWII, plus angst about WWIII that made me WANT WWIII.
Wish You Were Here: Rich guy whining about how he got rich, plus the fact that sometimes he has to work with people that are unpleasant.
Ummagumma: I'm all fucked up on acid.
Works: More money, please.
Division Bell: See Works.
Etc.
So, yeah, while cars may end the world, Roger Waters makes me want to buy a semi tractor and run it on the filthiest diesel I can, after ripping out the catalytic converter, just so I can blow a big hole in the ozone layer and give people skin cancer.
Hey now, hey now...
Listen, I've been one of you for some time now.
I've contributed content, I've laughed and cried with you, I've warded off assholes and welcomed new comrades with you. We've all grown and learned and hated and lold together.
Now I've shared an opinion that means a lot to my daily life, which doesn't quite sit the same with each and every one of you for whatever reason.
I expect some fucking personal attacks here.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
Hey now, hey now...
Listen, I've been one of you for some time now.
I've contributed content, I've laughed and cried with you, I've warded off assholes and welcomed new comrades with you. We've all grown and learned and hated and lold together.
Now I've shared an opinion that means a lot to my daily life, which doesn't quite sit the same with each and every one of you for whatever reason.
I expect some fucking personal attacks here.
I'd be more inclined to do so if you didn't resemble a rather short badger. Seriously, you should work on that.
You are short; your opinion is invalid.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
Hey now, hey now...
Listen, I've been one of you for some time now.
I've contributed content, I've laughed and cried with you, I've warded off assholes and welcomed new comrades with you. We've all grown and learned and hated and lold together.
Now I've shared an opinion that means a lot to my daily life, which doesn't quite sit the same with each and every one of you for whatever reason.
I expect some fucking personal attacks here.
I'd be more inclined to do so if you didn't resemble a rather short badger. Seriously, you should work on that.
You are short; your opinion is invalid.
5'11 is not short. Studies show. There's a whole range of people shorter than me. People at 5'10 come to mind. Shitass inch lower than me sons of BITCHES.
Observe:
:thisguy:
I am of regular height. I have regular teeth.
Alty is on the right hand side. He is short. Tripping over a dime short. He is also holding bourbon that costs more than 5 bucks (WRONG) and his teeth are distinctly badger-like. He also has a criminal face.
Ergo, his "bike" plan is criminal, and possibly treasonous.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 10:01:18 PM
Hey now, hey now...
Listen, I've been one of you for some time now.
I've contributed content, I've laughed and cried with you, I've warded off assholes and welcomed new comrades with you. We've all grown and learned and hated and lold together.
Now I've shared an opinion that means a lot to my daily life, which doesn't quite sit the same with each and every one of you for whatever reason.
I expect some fucking personal attacks here.
I'd be more inclined to do so if you didn't resemble a rather short badger. Seriously, you should work on that.
You are short; your opinion is invalid.
5'11 is not short. Studies show. There's a whole range of people shorter than me. People at 5'10 come to mind. Shitass inch lower than me sons of BITCHES.
You are not 5'11", sir. You are MAYBE 5'6". If you're in heels.
Damn, I was chunky when you visited. :lulz:
I'm not going to be much good at hating on you Alty, I haven't owned a car for about four years and have mostly walked everywhere I've gone since then. Currently I live near work, so that's not such a thing, but other times it involved a 2+ hour walk daily to/from work and my walking pace is insane.
Another thing about Alty is that he is in fact so short that he gets more air (the atmosphere being denser down at his height), which gives him almost limitless energy with which to get angry.
Air + Badger = Problems.
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
I'm not going to be much good at hating on you Alty, I haven't owned a car for about four years and have mostly walked everywhere I've gone since then. Currently I live near work, so that's not such a thing, but other times it involved a 2+ hour walk daily to/from work and my walking pace is insane.
They don't even HAVE cars in New Zealand.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
I'm not going to be much good at hating on you Alty, I haven't owned a car for about four years and have mostly walked everywhere I've gone since then. Currently I live near work, so that's not such a thing, but other times it involved a 2+ hour walk daily to/from work and my walking pace is insane.
They don't even HAVE cars in New Zealand.
Not since I crashed all of them. Those things are dangerous.
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:15:45 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
I'm not going to be much good at hating on you Alty, I haven't owned a car for about four years and have mostly walked everywhere I've gone since then. Currently I live near work, so that's not such a thing, but other times it involved a 2+ hour walk daily to/from work and my walking pace is insane.
They don't even HAVE cars in New Zealand.
Not since I crashed all of them. Those things are dangerous.
There isn't enough island to build a road.
What are you going to have? The Pitcairn Memorial Highway or some shit? By the time you hit the gas, you're over the side and into the ocean.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:13:59 PM
Another thing about Alty is that he is in fact so short that he gets more air (the atmosphere being denser down at his height), which gives him almost limitless energy with which to get angry.
Air + Badger = Problems.
I am a mountain of a man. You have no idea how many people say things like, "There goes Alty, that guy sure is great. And tall. And so...unike a badger." They say that, all the time. I have this little plaque that reminds me to remember that.
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:13:59 PM
Another thing about Alty is that he is in fact so short that he gets more air (the atmosphere being denser down at his height), which gives him almost limitless energy with which to get angry.
Air + Badger = Problems.
I am a mountain of a man. You have no idea how many people say things like, "There goes Alty, that guy sure is great. And tall. And so...unike a badger." They say that, all the time. I have this little plaque that reminds me to remember that.
No, I've met you, and you're tiny. A tiny ball of hate. Like a shrew. Tiny and vicious.
Like a badger shrew. Which is a real animal. I have researched a study on the horrible little bastards.
Hey, does anybody remember when I called you all white? That was super unpopular. :lol:
Anyway, my opinion on cars as individual forms of transportation: most of the time, I don't need one, and when I DO need one, 99% of the time it's because my city, like all cities everywhere in America, is fundamentally designed around automobile use. If it weren't, I would likely only use my car to go places that are inaccessible to me without my car, such as the farms on Sauvie Island or the beach at Hayden Island, or for other such more extensive traveling.
For the average family, it's probably important to remember how fucked our infrastructure is for getting people around without a car. Consider, for example, my situation when I finally got my first car. I was 29 years old, newly single, and had an infant and a toddler. I lived in Northeast Portland, had a job in Southeast Portland, and had free babysitting... FREE FREE FREE... without which I could not have survived. In Beaverton. That's the city just to the West of Portland, on the other side of the small mountain range we call the West Hills.
I used mass transit for a while. I got up at 5 am and bundled up the kids, hopped on the bus at 5:45 and transferred to the train and met my ex-husband's mom at the transit center in Beaverton, gave her the kids, hopped back on the train, transferred to the bus, got to work by 8:30, opened the store, got off work at 5, back in Beaverton around 6:30, home usually by 7:30, make a rushed dinner, baths, storytime, tuck in, bed. Start over in the morning. Every day. See, a civilized society would have a childcare subsidy so that I could afford a daycare near my work, or even pay the subsidy to my company so it would be AT my work, and there would be streetcars spaced about 12 blocks apart everywhere in the city (the streetcar tracks that the oil companies paid the city to either pave over or tear up, remember those?) so that it would have been a simple matter of eating a leisurely breakfast and hopping on a streetcar at 8, and then not only could I eat lunch with the kids, but also we could be home by 5:30 or so for a little relaxation and family time as I prepared something fun and delicious, maybe we would even have a little daylight time to go to the park after work. But that isn't how it is, and so we're stuck in this catch-22 where people who can least afford a car can also least afford NOT to have a car, and we're fucking ourselves over all the while.
Also, check out the bus pass rates here: http://trimet.org/fares/
That's almost $3000 per year for all five of us to ride the bus. THAT'S INSANE.
Basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you, cars are fucked. But a lot of people are between a rock and a hard place because of the way our infrastructure is designed, and until we fix THAT, most of the US isn't going to be able, from a practical perspective, to get rid of their cars.
Listen, who are you going to trust?
This deviant:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh309/Paesior/Cowboy2.png)
Or this fine American:
(http://www.imgur.com/p36Yatq.jpeg)
Also, I keep telling you people that Arizona is uninhabitable. When will you ever learn?
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:26:23 PM
Also, I keep telling you people that Arizona is uninhabitable. When will you ever learn?
If you're dead, that's not really an issue.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
Basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you, cars are fucked. But a lot of people are between a rock and a hard place because of the way our infrastructure is designed, and until we fix THAT, most of the US isn't going to be able, from a practical perspective, to get rid of their cars.
There's a word for that: Hypermodernity. I can't pronounce it. But still.
Cities aren't designed for people, they're designed for commerce. Roads are designed to move goods through and around the inside of cities, as anyone who's ever driven in Chicago can attest. Commerce is life; humans are a difficult & inconvenient part of commerce.
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:23:41 PM
Listen, who are you going to trust?
This deviant:
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh309/Paesior/Cowboy2.png)
Or this fine American:
(http://www.imgur.com/p36Yatq.jpeg)
Not fair. I was all fucked up on Saffron.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
Hey, does anybody remember when I called you all white? That was super unpopular. :lol:
Anyway, my opinion on cars as individual forms of transportation: most of the time, I don't need one, and when I DO need one, 99% of the time it's because my city, like all cities everywhere in America, is fundamentally designed around automobile use. If it weren't, I would likely only use my car to go places that are inaccessible to me without my car, such as the farms on Sauvie Island or the beach at Hayden Island, or for other such more extensive traveling.
For the average family, it's probably important to remember how fucked our infrastructure is for getting people around without a car. Consider, for example, my situation when I finally got my first car. I was 29 years old, newly single, and had an infant and a toddler. I lived in Northeast Portland, had a job in Southeast Portland, and had free babysitting... FREE FREE FREE... without which I could not have survived. In Beaverton. That's the city just to the West of Portland, on the other side of the small mountain range we call the West Hills.
I used mass transit for a while. I got up at 5 am and bundled up the kids, hopped on the bus at 5:45 and transferred to the train and met my ex-husband's mom at the transit center in Beaverton, gave her the kids, hopped back on the train, transferred to the bus, got to work by 8:30, opened the store, got off work at 5, back in Beaverton around 6:30, home usually by 7:30, make a rushed dinner, baths, storytime, tuck in, bed. Start over in the morning. Every day. See, a civilized society would have a childcare subsidy so that I could afford a daycare near my work, or even pay the subsidy to my company so it would be AT my work, and there would be streetcars spaced about 12 blocks apart everywhere in the city (the streetcar tracks that the oil companies paid the city to either pave over or tear up, remember those?) so that it would have been a simple matter of eating a leisurely breakfast and hopping on a streetcar at 8, and then not only could I eat lunch with the kids, but also we could be home by 5:30 or so for a little relaxation and family time as I prepared something fun and delicious, maybe we would even have a little daylight time to go to the park after work. But that isn't how it is, and so we're stuck in this catch-22 where people who can least afford a car can also least afford NOT to have a car, and we're fucking ourselves over all the while.
Also, check out the bus pass rates here: http://trimet.org/fares/
That's almost $3000 per year for all five of us to ride the bus. THAT'S INSANE.
Basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you, cars are fucked. But a lot of people are between a rock and a hard place because of the way our infrastructure is designed, and until we fix THAT, most of the US isn't going to be able, from a practical perspective, to get rid of their cars.
I'm going to have to get back to my laptop to repond properly.
However, before I present my reasonable, if impractical, assertions;* I would like to ask:
Do you have any practical exp...oh I see you do. Hm, I cant see how that would alter my view. Do you have any lin- oh right, ok. Would you mind if I just reworded my own arguments slightly and just pasted them back into this.little box over and over again?
*BEHOLD MY MASTERY OVER ALL LINGUISTICS.
Quote from: Pæs on October 07, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
I'm not going to be much good at hating on you Alty, I haven't owned a car for about four years and have mostly walked everywhere I've gone since then. Currently I live near work, so that's not such a thing, but other times it involved a 2+ hour walk daily to/from work and my walking pace is insane.
Well that fits my worl-ah, but do you see the danger inherent in a car? The evil that issues from it like so much Gloria Estefan through rattly speakers?
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 11:04:23 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
Hey, does anybody remember when I called you all white? That was super unpopular. :lol:
Anyway, my opinion on cars as individual forms of transportation: most of the time, I don't need one, and when I DO need one, 99% of the time it's because my city, like all cities everywhere in America, is fundamentally designed around automobile use. If it weren't, I would likely only use my car to go places that are inaccessible to me without my car, such as the farms on Sauvie Island or the beach at Hayden Island, or for other such more extensive traveling.
For the average family, it's probably important to remember how fucked our infrastructure is for getting people around without a car. Consider, for example, my situation when I finally got my first car. I was 29 years old, newly single, and had an infant and a toddler. I lived in Northeast Portland, had a job in Southeast Portland, and had free babysitting... FREE FREE FREE... without which I could not have survived. In Beaverton. That's the city just to the West of Portland, on the other side of the small mountain range we call the West Hills.
I used mass transit for a while. I got up at 5 am and bundled up the kids, hopped on the bus at 5:45 and transferred to the train and met my ex-husband's mom at the transit center in Beaverton, gave her the kids, hopped back on the train, transferred to the bus, got to work by 8:30, opened the store, got off work at 5, back in Beaverton around 6:30, home usually by 7:30, make a rushed dinner, baths, storytime, tuck in, bed. Start over in the morning. Every day. See, a civilized society would have a childcare subsidy so that I could afford a daycare near my work, or even pay the subsidy to my company so it would be AT my work, and there would be streetcars spaced about 12 blocks apart everywhere in the city (the streetcar tracks that the oil companies paid the city to either pave over or tear up, remember those?) so that it would have been a simple matter of eating a leisurely breakfast and hopping on a streetcar at 8, and then not only could I eat lunch with the kids, but also we could be home by 5:30 or so for a little relaxation and family time as I prepared something fun and delicious, maybe we would even have a little daylight time to go to the park after work. But that isn't how it is, and so we're stuck in this catch-22 where people who can least afford a car can also least afford NOT to have a car, and we're fucking ourselves over all the while.
Also, check out the bus pass rates here: http://trimet.org/fares/
That's almost $3000 per year for all five of us to ride the bus. THAT'S INSANE.
Basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you, cars are fucked. But a lot of people are between a rock and a hard place because of the way our infrastructure is designed, and until we fix THAT, most of the US isn't going to be able, from a practical perspective, to get rid of their cars.
I'm going to have to get back to my laptop to repond properly.
However, before I present my reasonable, if impractical, assertions;* I would like to ask:
Do you have any practical exp...oh I see you do. Hm, I cant see how that would alter my view. Do you have any lin- oh right, ok. Would you mind if I just reworded my own arguments slightly and just pasted them back into this.little box over and over again?
*BEHOLD MY MASTERY OVER ALL LINGUISTICS.
If you do it enough times, you can argue that you're being persecuted for your views when people get frustrated with it!
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 11:31:36 PM
Quote from: Alty on October 07, 2013, 11:04:23 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
Hey, does anybody remember when I called you all white? That was super unpopular. :lol:
Anyway, my opinion on cars as individual forms of transportation: most of the time, I don't need one, and when I DO need one, 99% of the time it's because my city, like all cities everywhere in America, is fundamentally designed around automobile use. If it weren't, I would likely only use my car to go places that are inaccessible to me without my car, such as the farms on Sauvie Island or the beach at Hayden Island, or for other such more extensive traveling.
For the average family, it's probably important to remember how fucked our infrastructure is for getting people around without a car. Consider, for example, my situation when I finally got my first car. I was 29 years old, newly single, and had an infant and a toddler. I lived in Northeast Portland, had a job in Southeast Portland, and had free babysitting... FREE FREE FREE... without which I could not have survived. In Beaverton. That's the city just to the West of Portland, on the other side of the small mountain range we call the West Hills.
I used mass transit for a while. I got up at 5 am and bundled up the kids, hopped on the bus at 5:45 and transferred to the train and met my ex-husband's mom at the transit center in Beaverton, gave her the kids, hopped back on the train, transferred to the bus, got to work by 8:30, opened the store, got off work at 5, back in Beaverton around 6:30, home usually by 7:30, make a rushed dinner, baths, storytime, tuck in, bed. Start over in the morning. Every day. See, a civilized society would have a childcare subsidy so that I could afford a daycare near my work, or even pay the subsidy to my company so it would be AT my work, and there would be streetcars spaced about 12 blocks apart everywhere in the city (the streetcar tracks that the oil companies paid the city to either pave over or tear up, remember those?) so that it would have been a simple matter of eating a leisurely breakfast and hopping on a streetcar at 8, and then not only could I eat lunch with the kids, but also we could be home by 5:30 or so for a little relaxation and family time as I prepared something fun and delicious, maybe we would even have a little daylight time to go to the park after work. But that isn't how it is, and so we're stuck in this catch-22 where people who can least afford a car can also least afford NOT to have a car, and we're fucking ourselves over all the while.
Also, check out the bus pass rates here: http://trimet.org/fares/
That's almost $3000 per year for all five of us to ride the bus. THAT'S INSANE.
Basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you, cars are fucked. But a lot of people are between a rock and a hard place because of the way our infrastructure is designed, and until we fix THAT, most of the US isn't going to be able, from a practical perspective, to get rid of their cars.
I'm going to have to get back to my laptop to repond properly.
However, before I present my reasonable, if impractical, assertions;* I would like to ask:
Do you have any practical exp...oh I see you do. Hm, I cant see how that would alter my view. Do you have any lin- oh right, ok. Would you mind if I just reworded my own arguments slightly and just pasted them back into this.little box over and over again?
*BEHOLD MY MASTERY OVER ALL LINGUISTICS.
If you do it enough times, you can argue that you're being persecuted for your views when people get frustrated with it!
IMA TRY IT!
I actually completely agree with the OP.
But then I drive a '94 Explorer and love it, so my agreement is both academic and somewhat hypocritical. So I guess at this point the only gratuitous personal attack I can muster is to point out the kind of undesirable person that agrees with your views.